The simulations are so helpful, so impressed! I cannot say how much I admire your willingness to share other options and not reacting to criticism. Very admirable.
1. Put the fender further aft. Add starboard fenders, particularly the bow. 2. Set a slipped line from the starboard aft cleat to a shore cleat 4 or 5 paces rear of the stern. 3. Drive forward with the rudder turned to port/the Dock. 4. The boat will travel outward and a little backwards and remain parallel to the dock. 5. Now with the stern a few feet from dock turn the rudder ahead. The bow will swing against the wind and achieve any angle you want, including 180 (but you don't have the space for over 80/90).... choose and adjust your angle with throttle. 6. Upto the next point the whole exercise is reversible and adjustable. 7. When you're at an angle that the slipped line will clear the prop, go into neutral, slip and consider retrieving the line. The boat will begin to drift forward. Change to forward gear for traction and steer past the power boats (and those to starboard). If you didn't get the trailing line aboard, do it now.... or before any acute port turn. 8. Award yourself a Blue Peter badge.
Another excellent video (I’m David from the quote you put on screen) thank you for your honesty in re-analysing your own techniques. Very useful to see you discussing the pros and cons of the different approaches and of course the option of waiting for better conditions which I imagine would be seldom considered by many! For me it reinforces the thought that every scenario is different and requires much consideration as to which technique would be correct to use on the day. I think you should also consider having a chat with the marina manager to find out why these power boaters keep boxing you in! Thanks again, really useful.
Thanks for the good videos and comments and like many others, I was a bit surprised that you actually showed the first departure (with the close call). Credits to you for letting everybody learn without you or anybody experiencing a damage situation. This new video very well clarifies and complements the case, again for everybody. I have owned and operated a 31-foot sloop and done a lot of my sailing single handed. Docking and departure typically takes quite a bit of planning in my case and the hick-ups sometimes happen when you least expect any problem at all. Your preferred method as shown in the last video is just fine, but only at very moderate wind. Otherwise the long 'arm' of the boat forward of the rotation point (the fender) and your manual short 'arm' manually pulling the stern to the dock, will overpower anybody. Also, if the wind is not dead astern, but turned 20-30 degrees counter clockwise, your job gets even harder. By motoring against a forward spring, it is easy to get the stern out to well over 45 degrees with very little use of the engine. Back away slowly while pulling in the line. Note that the 'pulling in' in the case you showed on video could easily jam. The line should go over a puller or through a wide open ring, which is not always available. Many ways to skin a cat :-)
Thanks for the comment and support KGRE. I have been using my preferred technique (pulling in the stern) for almost thirty years all over the world on boats 22-50 feet long in all kinds of conditions and I have never had a problem, getting the bow out far enough. I've never needed to spring and as I said I personally like to keep things simple. I have footage of a similar situation in 20 knots of gusty following wind and no trouble at all getting the bow out far enough. And obviously I agree that springing can get the stern out much farther and rather than walking the boat back might have been a better option. BTW just to make sure of terminology spring lines are named for the direction they follow when leaving the boat, so a spring line going from the bow down to the dock at midships (the setup one would use to spring the stern out) would be called an after spring even thought it is at the front of the boat.
Another option is “spronging off” if you really don’t want to spring off. … th-cam.com/video/1bLf7C-jAG0/w-d-xo.html … It might have the advantages you seek from the stern line with simplicity and access for the singlehander from the helm. I also really think it’s important to mention the slip line technique in these singlehanded scenarios. I do think however, it’s almost always best to push into the current or wind, so my vote is with the comments advising the forward aft-spring. Your demonstration of that was so good you were almost 90 degrees to the dock! Nonetheless, there’s a lot of ways to skin this cat and I think this video could be one of your best as folks learn more from imperfection than from perfection. Thanks again for making these videos!
Thanks Jamie. Yes that is a technique I was not familiar with and seems to work very well. One of my other viewers posted a similar video. I will definitely try it and do a video on it. It works because it gets the stern out away from the dock which is why a regular stern spring doesn’t work any better than pulling in the stern. Also the angle of the line levers the stern out better.
I've also seen (on youtube) that the 'spronging' method can be used to completely turn the boat about face while still tied up to the dock, just by keeping the revs on for longer
Excellent videos and it’s easy for us to comment from the comfort of our devices. Springing back with the same fender in the same location will only give a marginal benefit, but when springing back the fender can be placed further astern creating a more effective point of rotation. Additionally using a larger fender also helps. I have a large ball fender for this purpose. Secondly, once you have sprung out you can motor forward and retrieve the spring as you are going forward so you don’t lose the benefit. Of course the spring needs to be set so that you can easily retrieve it without it going in the water (more difficult with wooden dock furniture than with a ring or cleat).
Great honest review and commentary. Biggest takeaway is the need for considerable analysis of a situation before leaving a dock. What looks like. straight froward exercise requires forethought and selection of the right tool. Thanks Marco.
Thanks for the comment Horatio Nelson, very well said. I agree completely and although I did have a plan I was distracted and complacent due to the camera
Well done Marco. One of the most enjoyble parts about sailing and boat handling is the thinking part. There are many ways to do things, some beter than others. The key is to improve as you learn and to keep adding solutions for problems that arise.
Love your videos. The combination of your teaching delivery and skills, in combination with the professional grade video editing , complete with outstanding animations is an amazing gift to up and coming mariners like myself and for those looking to hone their skills. Bravo. Add to that your humility , and as a result I am addicted to your channel ! I am curious if springing might have been a bit more effective for you had you not placed the spring line so far forward. If the Spring line was just in front of, or in line with, the rear "fulcrum" fender, I think you would have achieved more angle with the assistance of your port prop walk as well. I could be wrong , but again , I really appreciate documenting such useful , realistic , challenges for thought and discussion. Ultimately your demonstration of excellent helmsmanship, and understanding that turning TOWARDS the parked boats , actually moved your stern AWAY from the parked boats is a concept many newer boaters do not comprehend and is a valuable lesson in its own right. If you ever have time to kill , I am curious if my suggestion of a more Aft located spring line is more powerful than when located near the beam. I am nit picking here , and I have to end this dumb blurb with a giant THANK YOU for all your hard work , and sharing your passion and expertise for sailing.
Thanks for the comment and encouraging support Steve. At this time I still stand by my original opinions but will definitely be revisiting the subject once again when the weather moderates. For one thing I want to try “springing” which looks like it has the potential for getting the stern well clear of the dock. There are a few videos on YT on this technique if you’re curious.
Another great video! Every individual should find which techniques works best for them as we are all different in our skills and comfort level. Most people never practice these maneuvers until they actually need them then are disappointed when things do not work out as planned. I highly recommend practicing skills like this on challenging weather days and have crew available to help as needed but still practice as though you are single handed. Another point with crew is a thorough pre brief and the maneuver so every crew member understands what is going to happen.
@@CarpeDiemSailingMagazine no, thanks you for making such excellent videos. Your knowledge and ability to communicate great content is greatly appreciated.
I'm glad that you went back over this one; it's valuable to see this depth of analysis on these "what almost went wrong" scenarios. I belonged to a club where the boats were basically parallel parked nose to tail at the dock with prevailing winds pushing you back onto the dock so I got really good at springing the bow out those two years. I had the advantage of a cleat horn so I would spring out with the dock line only over the front of the cleat horn; when I went into forward the line would release itself and there wasn't even enough slack in the line for it to get wet let alone get anywhere near the saildrive :) I could not have "spronged off" (new term for an familair technique) in this situation because the boat parallel parked behind would have been in the way. If you find yourself needing to spring the bow out further in the future I suggest doubling the line back to the stern cleat and then hold it at the helm (so the dockline goes cleated at stern, looped through bull rail, looped around stern cleat then to your hand). When you held the line directly from the cockpit you were pulling the boat into the dock forward of the fender/pivot point which limited how far the bow would spring off. You can actually chose a great frame for your side by side here th-cam.com/video/4aPwZ6g_-ww/w-d-xo.html that shows the part of the line to your hand under tension and the line from the stern cleat to the bull rail is actually slack. If you then put another fender where your port side becomes your transom you should be able to spring out to 60 degrees or more (until the transom or dinghy get in the way).
Marco, when we use the outside- starboard cleat- the bow does spring right out. Also we use many more fenders, and especially like those big round balloons commercial fishermen use. Edward, watching from Newfoundland.
The reason your rear spring was not effective was due to the angle of the line you were holding. I noticed in the video that the line to your rear cleat never tightened up. Had you run the line you were holding further aft, the spring would have been more effective.
I had a feeling someone would comment on that. However I don’t agree. Once the corner of the stern is against the dock the bow will not go out any further. The only way to lever the bow further out would be to run the spring from the stbd side as some other viewers have suggested. th-cam.com/video/H6O6gqcFxT0/w-d-xo.html
@@CarpeDiemSailingMagazine Respect and thanks for sharing. Whilst I recognise your desire for simplicity, given your negative opinion of the technique, I am not convinced you were actually trying very hard or being patient enough. The beauty of springing off is that until you cast off the manoeuvre is very controllable and you can change your mind if you are not happy. In my experience it is usually possible to spring the bow out much further and beyond the point where stern might touch the dock. The only other comment I would make is that if the fender had been much further back you would have had a better fulcrum as well as better protection of stern from the dock.
Well done for your honesty, nice to see. In my humble opinion a much more considered and improved explanation of the issues. I used to put the spring on the cockpit winch so you don’t need to hold the rope until you transition from reverse to forward. You can also remain on the boat so it can be a swift and efficient operation when practiced. I had a Tradewind 35 long keel yacht which weighed about 10 tons and I did about 40,000 miles single handed but it had a narrower pinched in stern so the bow came out a long way, probably further then some modern hull designs. Springing off worked well in U.K. waters with strong tidal streams an in my particular boat which was also heavy to manoeuvre by hand. Never found much use for a bow spring single handed as you had to go to the bow to release and the boat was difficult to manoeuvre backwards with the long keel so it never really worked. Thank you again for the great explanation of the options. Keep them coming.
Hello Marco, I do agree that the original video was a bit of a tight departure. However, it is super important for people who are not experienced like me to be aware of how not to execute certain manoeuvres, or how to recover from wrongly executed manoeuvres. Showing what was executed wrongly and how it is supposed to be executed, is of greater value to anyone, especially new joiners. I am a flying coach and can 100% vouch for that, based on student feedback. This is what makes your channel standout. Showing only the happy day scenarios is great, but there are so many variables that impact sailing overall, how to deal with the unplanned is of absolute importance. Once again, thank you for the great videos. They are helping coming a long with my RYA course. Ps. Springing off maybe good but if you have a dinghy or other hanging obstruction, this can impact the spring off process. It seems that your dinghy is touching the railing of the pontoon.
Spot on analysis. I've owned a 12000 and a 22000lb monohull. I never used spring techniques on the smaller one, except when I was learning. However, I do so occasionally on the larger. My favorite technique: ask someone for help--before I untie!
As a relatively inexperienced sailor, your videos are great at explaining issues that I'm facing. I watch your film then go and experiment with the technique on the boat. Many thanks for good and clear instruction and for being a real confidence booster to the newbies out here.
Thank you so much for your honesty and advice! Especially about steering into the powerboats to avoid colliding with them on your stern is a mind-blowing advice for many! I was however surprised about the technique of taking in the final line (e.g. the springline) I was tought to make the springline doubled. If you pass the line from the boat as a bight and pull that bight around a cleat or even fence, you can bring the bight back to the boat and put it on a cleat. In this way, you can stay on the boat while casting off the final springline, as you just release the bight from the cleat and pull in the whole line. There is minimal risk of it dropping in the water and you are on the boat at all times (thus giving more control and limiting the risk of falling in the water). I might be able to illustrate it if you are interested! Thanks again for all the info and advice, I'll definitely keep following!
Hi Jake, Thank you for the kind feedback. Yes I am familiar with that technique and I typically use it when there is a lot of wind. When there is little or no wind I don't find that I need it and I like to keep things as simple as possible and only complicate my life if there is an obvious benefit. I have found that sometimes slipping the line from a cleat or rail runs the risk of the line catching as you are retrieving it and then the situation becomes worse so for me its a preference thing but definitely worth considering depending on the situation.
Wonderful video! I do find spring lines handy when I’m single handing but I have an extra safety buffer. I’ll use floating dock lines so if they do drop in the water it’s no rush to retrieve them or risk of fouling the prop. The floating dock lines are soft, flexible, with a hand similar to nylon dock lines and great for temporary docking.
I'm late to the game, having only recently found your channel. This was a great episode, and I got more out of it than just leaving a dock in that situation. I'm fairly new to keelboat sailing, and have had challenging moments backing a Cal 2-25 out of a slip at the inboard end of a fairway, where there's a sllip on the other side of the fairway with a float connecting them. There's nowhere for the stern to go, and the turn down the fairway can be awkward. As I watched your video, I realized that that best way to handle that is to walk the boat back almost to the opposite side and spring off to point the bow down the fairway toward open water. Everything's under control.
Glad you put this video back up with your review. I also find with a smaller boat (26ft) pushing the bow out with a fender towards the stern acting as a fulcrum works fine. Although, I'd be hesitant about gunning it out of the docks. Thanks for your videos and for sharing your experience.
Thanks for taking the time to comment Darren. Yes with a smaller boat pushing out will work but I do discourage this as it is a potentially dangerous practice. Having said that I have done it myself in extreme circumstance.
Great and usefull. If I may comment I'd like to mention an operation I did experience in very similare situations with good success. The wind push from aft and I'm along a pontoon on port side. I draw a line from my aft starbord cleat to a point on the pontoon further aft. When I realease other all other lines, the wind just gently turn my bow away from pontoon and other boats I want to avoid. When my ship has turned sufficiently I recover the line and engage the engine to go.
Springing off does seem to be the way to go when it's that tight. I think moving the spring line on the dock a little farther aft might help swing the bow out further, no? I don't have the experience to say for sure, but my hunch is that. I just bought a 32' boat and had an issue with 20 knots of wind pushing me (pinning me) right into the dock. After that I began to look into strategies for getting off a doc in that situation. An hence my look at this vid. Glad to have heard both perspectives. Know what I did? I asked the marina for help. They did, and I got off and running fine after that.
Unfortunately I am not a fan of pushing off if it can be avoided. It does work but only on smaller boats, in calm conditions and is a dangerous practice
I will be trying a different technique called "spronging off" which has promise. Stay tuned. Yes marina staff are great help, if they are around which is not always the case hence my encouragement of independence. Thanks for watching and for taking the time to comment.
We have learned through the years that backing on a stern spring line works exceptionally well for our canoe stern sailboat. That being said, I would have to reconsider if I were solo because our center cockpit arrangement does not allow me to tend the stern spring then quickly return to the helm. I would need to re-think my strategy in that case. Thanks for sharing this.
Hello Marco, Thank you for making these sailing lessons and things to consider, they have helped me a lot to learn more about sailing. Thank you and I appreciate your efforts and the hard work you put in to making these free online class possible. Thank you very much and I appreciate it a lot! After watching this particular video of leaving the dock, I have thought that it would be possible to leave the dock with the main sail at broad reach on the port side and untying the bow and spring line first and the stern line last while stearing to starboard side after the the sail catch enough trust. For under power of leaving the dock in the condition of the video and animation have shown, I think it might be safe to keep the bow line while puting the extra fenders on the front port side until the wind turns the stern of the boat and use the prope walk of the direction of your boat screw as it will prope walk to port moving the boat to left at when the boat is passed from perpendicular from the dock it will be the perfect timing to use the prope walke and quickly untying the bow line and by then the boat would be at perpendicular to the dock again and you would be at the helm by then to slowly steering the boat out from the docking backward. Can it be possible at the reality of the conditions to operate in such a way to avoid the risk of collision what was seen in the video? I think the boat was driven out from the dock like a car, but there are more potentials and dynamics to consider for water locomotion vessels and advantages of dynamics to incorporate in the safty of vessels and efficiency of use. You tube teaching lessons making is not an easy skill when especially it's a practical skill and theory like sailing lesson to make for others. Certainly it puts a lot of pressure on the preparation, illustrations, timing, lessons and everything. I hope you will stay safe and well! Best of luck and keep safe! Fair winds and following seas! Sincerely,
Thank you for the comment and the question. There was no wind that day and the direction of the wind would certainly determine the steps to be taken. There are numerous options for that situation. As I said in the video I personally like to keep things simple and I should have taken more time to get the bow well out. The last time I was in that harbour (a couple of weeks ago) it was much more crowded and I chose to spring forward until the stern was well out and then I backed out.
Very much enjoying this series. I'm soon to be single-handing and these vids are a helpful tool to re-calibrate my brain. Your friend is clearly not a fan of springing-off. Otherwise, he may have named her Spring Theory! Cheers Marco for your work.
I feel your demonstration of springing off is still flawed. To be fully effective, a spring line to the cleat on the rear corner of the boat needs to taking the tension whereas in your demo, the line to the cleat is slack and all tension is taken by the line to your hands and standing in the cockpit the spring cannot be fully effective. I'd suggest the line back to your hands should feed around the cleat on the rear corner where the spring is anchored, then I believe the spring would be more effective in swinging the bow further off the pier. Cheers, and thanks for the great videos
I still do not agree, sorry. In general spring lines are very helpful, especially when single handed. Pull the stern by hand only works in very light wind from straight aft, and gives only slight angle at most. In this case here I would use the stb aftline (slip and as long as possible) only, then the engine in foreward low power with rudder to port (the dock) first until the stern is clear, then centered. The boat will slowly move from the dock then turn the bow away. When the angle is good (30-45°) release the line and pull in. Advantages: It works even in stronger winds, you can turn 90° and more (even to windward), engine stays untouched you can focus on steering and line handling, no risk to get line into prop.
Thank you for you comment but I have to disagree that pulling in the bow only achieves a "slight angle at most". That was clearly shown in the video. I'm not saying that springlines aren't helpful, I'm simply saying that for me I dont find the extra complications worth the trouble. In thirty years of sailing and teaching on boats of 22 to 50 feet in many different parts of the world I have never needed to spring off and my technique has always worked for me and for me I will continue to do as I always have. Having said that the method you describe (if I understand it correctly) is worth looking into. A few other viewers have suggested the same and I believe it is the only way of achieving more bow angle as it moves the stern out away from the dock. I will be trying it out and doing a video on it. Bottom line as I said in the video I was simply presenting options so that people can make up their own minds as to what works for them. For you springing off obviously works.
That's an excellent video, but in my opinion, it shows not what it intends to show. Actually, you are NOT reversing against the spring that is the line that is attached to the stern cleat (not pulled tight!) but to the loose part of the line that is in your hand (pulled tight!). Thus, you don't get enough leverage as the line in your hand pulls from the centre of the stern and not the far port side. Additionally, there are better methods to clear the spring line in order to get it in more quickly. Properly reversing into the right line, you should be able to get more than a 45° angle by springing.
Thanks for your comment. The lube is not loose. It’s actually caught on a plank under the dock. So the pull was still on the cleat. Having said that I will be revisiting it once again. I do want to try “sproinging off” If you’ve ever heard of that. Thanks again for watching and contributing
@@CarpeDiemSailingMagazine @ 16:25 you can see it very clearly: The part of the line in your hand is tight, the part from the dock to the cleat is hanging loose. Actually, there are two spring-lines here, but "working" is only the part without much leverage. The lever for "springing off" is always the distance between the propeller and the "pivot-point" on board, which should be the cleat and not the hand. I'm sorry, but that's the physics in this case. Another way to cast off under these circumstances would be a line from the starboard aft cleat backwards (as far as possible) to the pier. You would need good fending-off on the port side of the stern. Then you give forward thrust, and the bow would move to the right. With the rudder to port, you should be able to get the whole boat off the pier before you let go the line, maybe to even prevent the port side from touching the dock. As soon as you have reached the appropriate angle, you can let go the mooring line with the advantage that all the length of the line is behind your propeller, and you won't have to go past the line as you move forward. Just a thought! ...and I love discussing manoeuvre options! 😇
In calm conditions like you had, I employ some physics to "bounce" the bow out. I leave the stern breast at its normal length and when I untie it, I pull the stern aggressively toward the dock which compresses the aft most fender. It then bounces the midship and bow outward while I hold the stern in. Once the bow is out as far as I want it, I step aboard and motor out. This uses the compressibility of the fender (elastic collision) and Newtons 3rd law of motion (for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction) with a touch of Sumation of moments = 0 to let the inward pull create an outward push to the front of the boat which rotates the boat out away from the dock. I have often had a fuel dock worker ask me if I need a push out from the dock to which I say "No, I've got it" and step aboard at the stern as the bow swings away from him. The best reward is a started "how did you do that!?!?" because it happens so quickly that they often miss my inward pull. Better boating through Engineering.
@@CarpeDiemSailingMagazine I agree. It's particularly hard to spring off with bull rails. That is why I came up with the method of bouncing the bow out by pulling against the fender
I think if you tied the stern line off as a slip line you may have got more leverage to push the bow out and your hands would have been free for the helm (held hard to port initially) and throttle in reverse until the bow angle was sufficient to straighten the helm release the slip line and move away in fwd. I liked the other comment about setting the stern slip to stbd and keen to try this one at the next opportunity
The 4th option starboard quarter to dock about 6+m aft of vessel and return. A video on this would show it to be the easiest method to safely depart in this situation. I know from many years experience including mainsail and no engine that this is easiest. I also have 2 cylinder fender tied together at Port quarter.
I would prefer: 1) idle in reverse to match the force of wind and so holding the vessel in place, 2) untie the last line or two to cast off, 3) hard right rudder to pull stern off the dock 3) feather throttle to hold fore/aft position as the stern moves out, 4) when far enough off the dock, center the rudder .. at this point the wind will blow the bow directly downwind of the stern, 5) drive away normally.... this works with current astern even better.
Thanks for watching and I appreciate you taking the time to leave your comment but for me what you suggest is way too complicated, especially single handed. Plus I don’t quite understand what you’re saying. Hard right rudder in forward will push the stern towards the dock not away. Also putting the boat in gear as you step off the bust to untie lines is a very bad idea and I would never suggest that to anyone. The reality is that in thirty years of teaching snd sailing 22-50 foot boats all over the world in all kinds of conditions I have very seldom if ever needed to spring off. Much less add the complexity of what you suggest. As I said in my video I like my technique for me and I’ve never needed anything more complex but I completely respect if others like and use more complex techniques
Thanks for the comment. As I mention in the video, I’m not a fan of pushing a boat out, and I’m definitely not a fan of fending off with a boat hook. Very commonly seen, this is a very dangerous practice in my opinion. For one thing it puts you at risk by leaning out over the water and its not possible with large heavy boats, springing off under power then becomes your only option
I just had an opportunity to watch this part. Indeed once I seen the very first movie with an example of leaving a dock sinhle handed I had much doubts regarding the safety of that manouver. Regarding the alternative presented - springing off - I have one major comment. The boat will reach much better angle If you move your fender further back , almost to the very end. This makes the big difference. Second comment is that you do not need to clear the line completly before you touch the gear. As you move forward your line coming from the dock has very limited chance of getting you into the trouble. And the last comment - as I value your videos high- you should not show young viewers that you move from boat to dock with any line in your hand. The rule is clear - line on the dock Then Man on the dock…..:-)
Good video. I have a 322 as well. Couple of thoughts. In the 1st video, I probably would not have attempted to get past those boats without someone being on the outside power boat just in case. At only 1-2 boat lengths away, there's no way I would've gone forward until my bow was pointing clear of those two boats. But that's just me, who single hands about 90% of the time. I find that when I need to get the bow off, a good push off the dock usually gets me pointed out far enough. If that doesn't work, I go to the spring line. IN my neck of the woods I deal with dock cleats most of the time, so it's usually easy enough to swing the line clear without much fuss. Another other option (depending on wind, current, other boats, etc.) is to come off the dock in reverse. If you get a good push off the dock, or a favorable wind (or no wind), getting back a boat length with the bow moving across could be enough to get you clear of what's in front of you on the dock. Then shift to forward and off you go. Lots of ways to skin this cat. Good post, and good food for thought.
Thanks for the comment Mickey. As I mentioned in the video I'm not a fan of pushing the boat out, I find that to be an unsafe practice. Also as mentioned I like to keep things simple and I'm not a fan of springing off, especially singlehanded. I have never needed it in thirty years of teaching and cruising boats 22-50 feet in all conditions. For those that like springing, if they're happy I'm happy.
Could another strategy be to have spronged by rigging an outboard stern spring, and then engaging forward drive with helm hard to port, thus bring your bows out to starboard and keeping your stern away from the jetty. Then when you get the angle you want, midships the rudder and slip the sprong line?
“Spronging” off should definitely work better. I have been planning to try it out and do a video but have not had a chance yet. For me the reality is that in my 30+ years of cruising I have very rarely needed to spring off, that includes a little of single handing. I prefer to keep things simple and not complicate my life. A solid foundation of docking fundamentals is really important and I find that people don’t have that foundation and then they try to compensate with adjunctive manoeuvres. Thanks for watching and for taking the time to comment
You don't get out enough....in all senses. :) There's ALWAYS a better way that other's use and we're not aware of. Suggestion. Set a slip line from the STARBOARD stern cleat to shore. Driving forward helmed hard to port will push the stern away from the dock. Gradually ease and feed out the line while also gradually helming less than to port. She will pivot on the starboard cleat forcing the bows way way out. Slip the line and drive out at 45 to 90 degrees. It's called spronging and can turn the boat any angle up to 180. So forget a raft, this'll get you off even if you're pointing at the fairway's dead end. You might want to keep a floating line as a single handing propwrap mitigation. Don't forget to always helm to shore. I'll await version 3 of the video. Edit. Damn. I could have just sent you here. th-cam.com/video/1bLf7C-jAG0/w-d-xo.html
Yes. Couple other viewers have suggested same and I will be trying it. Looks like a great technique. But bottom line for me is simplicity so I’m going to keep doing what I’ve been doing and keep it simple as much as possible.
When you demonstrated the aft spring, the bight of the line was creating the inward pull that prevented the bow from rotating outward. If you would have had that line running under the pulpit to the rear chock, the outward rotation would have been much greater. Then what most people will do is let the line trail as you start to pull forward and pull it in as you get abreast of the cleat. It is unlikely to foul into the prop given that it is above, to the side and aft of the prop. Admittedly, springing either aft or fore does not work as well with a bull rail as it does with a cleat due to the large friction on the bull rail and the possibility of the line hanging up.
A question that has been bothering me… It’s regarding the vhf radio Emergency Distress ‘button’ … Do you need both a GPS signal tied into the vhf radio, and an MMSI number programmed into the vhf radio before the Distress DSC alarm will function? Thanks Edward
have you tried tie the aft spring line to the starboard side of the boat similar to this th-cam.com/video/H6O6gqcFxT0/w-d-xo.html ? will it give you a better angle?
I thought of this as well but I'm not sure how it would go doing it singlehanded. Managing the helm and the spring at the same time could be difficult.
Could move the fender more to the stern and add one extra. After reversing in a spring (not hand hold), let the boat turn an angle a little more then you need, turn the engine in neutral l, remove the spring and go.
I'm curious, suppose you had the spring line or breast line on the port stern and then tried to pull it around with a line on the starboard stern. Would you consider this a viable option? I suppose it would be easier if you had kevels or bollards instead of square timbers working any of the options.
Absolutely proper cleats or bollards would work better. Springing off from the starboard side does look like a viable option as you can manoeuvre the stern out away from the dock.
I'm old school... I kick the bow out, cast the stern line, hop on and putt off in your conditions. The one time I remember not kicking hard enough I had a nail-biter like yourself. Where you been these days?... hope everything's OK. Gave up on waiting for you to sell me your boat and bought a c34mk2 ;;)
@@CarpeDiemSailingMagazine Oh, and BTW, I just sold my little O'Day 222 to a nice couple here in Comox. Suggested they get a hold of you for some sailing lessons
There are several different ways to spring off. Since I always use an after bow spring line to snug the vessel into the dock while loading (with the engine in forward idle and rudder pushing the stern into the dock), I can just throw the wheel over to push the stern out as far as needed for departure. A highwayman knot makes releasing the line easy for the helmsman or automatic with the running end snugged at the desired length. Then I just reverse away a bit before making a pivot turn either direction. By ALWAYS docking and departing the same way, there is never any hard thinking to do, regardless of wind direction or crew status.
Yes. I have heard it called "sproinging off" in North America. I have been planning to try it. It seems to work well. I particularly liked how the guy in the video set up his dockline from outside the boat and used a proper cleat hitch. Thanks for sharing. I will be saving it for future reference.
The simulations are so helpful, so impressed! I cannot say how much I admire your willingness to share other options and not reacting to criticism. Very admirable.
1. Put the fender further aft. Add starboard fenders, particularly the bow.
2. Set a slipped line from the starboard aft cleat to a shore cleat 4 or 5 paces rear of the stern.
3. Drive forward with the rudder turned to port/the Dock.
4. The boat will travel outward and a little backwards and remain parallel to the dock.
5. Now with the stern a few feet from dock turn the rudder ahead. The bow will swing against the wind and achieve any angle you want, including 180 (but you don't have the space for over 80/90).... choose and adjust your angle with throttle.
6. Upto the next point the whole exercise is reversible and adjustable.
7. When you're at an angle that the slipped line will clear the prop, go into neutral, slip and consider retrieving the line. The boat will begin to drift forward.
Change to forward gear for traction and steer past the power boats (and those to starboard).
If you didn't get the trailing line aboard, do it now.... or before any acute port turn.
8. Award yourself a Blue Peter badge.
Yes. I plan to try this and do a video. Thanks for the comment
Another excellent video (I’m David from the quote you put on screen) thank you for your honesty in re-analysing your own techniques. Very useful to see you discussing the pros and cons of the different approaches and of course the option of waiting for better conditions which I imagine would be seldom considered by many! For me it reinforces the thought that every scenario is different and requires much consideration as to which technique would be correct to use on the day. I think you should also consider having a chat with the marina manager to find out why these power boaters keep boxing you in! Thanks again, really useful.
Thanks David. This was actually a one-off situation. I was only there for one night.
Thanks for the good videos and comments and like many others, I was a bit surprised that you actually showed the first departure (with the close call). Credits to you for letting everybody learn without you or anybody experiencing a damage situation. This new video very well clarifies and complements the case, again for everybody. I have owned and operated a 31-foot sloop and done a lot of my sailing single handed. Docking and departure typically takes quite a bit of planning in my case and the hick-ups sometimes happen when you least expect any problem at all. Your preferred method as shown in the last video is just fine, but only at very moderate wind. Otherwise the long 'arm' of the boat forward of the rotation point (the fender) and your manual short 'arm' manually pulling the stern to the dock, will overpower anybody. Also, if the wind is not dead astern, but turned 20-30 degrees counter clockwise, your job gets even harder. By motoring against a forward spring, it is easy to get the stern out to well over 45 degrees with very little use of the engine. Back away slowly while pulling in the line. Note that the 'pulling in' in the case you showed on video could easily jam. The line should go over a puller or through a wide open ring, which is not always available. Many ways to skin a cat :-)
Thanks for the comment and support KGRE. I have been using my preferred technique (pulling in the stern) for almost thirty years all over the world on boats 22-50 feet long in all kinds of conditions and I have never had a problem, getting the bow out far enough. I've never needed to spring and as I said I personally like to keep things simple. I have footage of a similar situation in 20 knots of gusty following wind and no trouble at all getting the bow out far enough. And obviously I agree that springing can get the stern out much farther and rather than walking the boat back might have been a better option. BTW just to make sure of terminology spring lines are named for the direction they follow when leaving the boat, so a spring line going from the bow down to the dock at midships (the setup one would use to spring the stern out) would be called an after spring even thought it is at the front of the boat.
Another option is “spronging off” if you really don’t want to spring off. … th-cam.com/video/1bLf7C-jAG0/w-d-xo.html … It might have the advantages you seek from the stern line with simplicity and access for the singlehander from the helm. I also really think it’s important to mention the slip line technique in these singlehanded scenarios.
I do think however, it’s almost always best to push into the current or wind, so my vote is with the comments advising the forward aft-spring. Your demonstration of that was so good you were almost 90 degrees to the dock! Nonetheless, there’s a lot of ways to skin this cat and I think this video could be one of your best as folks learn more from imperfection than from perfection. Thanks again for making these videos!
Thanks Jamie. Yes that is a technique I was not familiar with and seems to work very well. One of my other viewers posted a similar video. I will definitely try it and do a video on it. It works because it gets the stern out away from the dock which is why a regular stern spring doesn’t work any better than pulling in the stern. Also the angle of the line levers the stern out better.
I've also seen (on youtube) that the 'spronging' method can be used to completely turn the boat about face while still tied up to the dock, just by keeping the revs on for longer
Excellent videos and it’s easy for us to comment from the comfort of our devices. Springing back with the same fender in the same location will only give a marginal benefit, but when springing back the fender can be placed further astern creating a more effective point of rotation. Additionally using a larger fender also helps. I have a large ball fender for this purpose. Secondly, once you have sprung out you can motor forward and retrieve the spring as you are going forward so you don’t lose the benefit. Of course the spring needs to be set so that you can easily retrieve it without it going in the water (more difficult with wooden dock furniture than with a ring or cleat).
Thank you David, those are great points
Great honest review and commentary. Biggest takeaway is the need for considerable analysis of a situation before leaving a dock. What looks like. straight froward exercise requires forethought and selection of the right tool. Thanks Marco.
Thanks for the comment Horatio Nelson, very well said. I agree completely and although I did have a plan I was distracted and complacent due to the camera
Well done Marco. One of the most enjoyble parts about sailing and boat handling is the thinking part. There are many ways to do things, some beter than others. The key is to improve as you learn and to keep adding solutions for problems that arise.
Well said Neil. Very true. Thanks for the comment.
Practice makes perfect, the only way to get better is to try different techniques. Thanks for getting the gears in my mind turning.
Thanks for the comment Dane. I hear you!
Thanks for the video! I appreciate it. Please keep them coming you're a really good educator and I am learning lots. The sea calls to me!
Thanks Ty. Will do. Sure appreciate the support.
Top notch as always, Marco. Very thorough review and level-headed self reflection. Bravo!
Many thanks! Appreciate the support.
Love your videos. The combination of your teaching delivery and skills, in combination with the professional grade video editing , complete with outstanding animations is an amazing gift to up and coming mariners like myself and for those looking to hone their skills. Bravo. Add to that your humility , and as a result I am addicted to your channel ! I am curious if springing might have been a bit more effective for you had you not placed the spring line so far forward. If the Spring line was just in front of, or in line with, the rear "fulcrum" fender, I think you would have achieved more angle with the assistance of your port prop walk as well. I could be wrong , but again , I really appreciate documenting such useful , realistic , challenges for thought and discussion.
Ultimately your demonstration of excellent helmsmanship, and understanding that turning TOWARDS the parked boats , actually moved your stern AWAY from the parked boats is a concept many newer boaters do not comprehend and is a valuable lesson in its own right. If you ever have time to kill , I am curious if my suggestion of a more Aft located spring line is more powerful than when located near the beam. I am nit picking here , and I have to end this dumb blurb with a giant THANK YOU for all your hard work , and sharing your passion and expertise for sailing.
Thanks for the comment and encouraging support Steve. At this time I still stand by my original opinions but will definitely be revisiting the subject once again when the weather moderates. For one thing I want to try “springing” which looks like it has the potential for getting the stern well clear of the dock. There are a few videos on YT on this technique if you’re curious.
Another great video! Every individual should find which techniques works best for them as we are all different in our skills and comfort level. Most people never practice these maneuvers until they actually need them then are disappointed when things do not work out as planned. I highly recommend practicing skills like this on challenging weather days and have crew available to help as needed but still practice as though you are single handed. Another point with crew is a thorough pre brief and the maneuver so every crew member understands what is going to happen.
Thanks for watching and the comment
@@CarpeDiemSailingMagazine no, thanks you for making such excellent videos. Your knowledge and ability to communicate great content is greatly appreciated.
I'm glad that you went back over this one; it's valuable to see this depth of analysis on these "what almost went wrong" scenarios.
I belonged to a club where the boats were basically parallel parked nose to tail at the dock with prevailing winds pushing you back onto the dock so I got really good at springing the bow out those two years. I had the advantage of a cleat horn so I would spring out with the dock line only over the front of the cleat horn; when I went into forward the line would release itself and there wasn't even enough slack in the line for it to get wet let alone get anywhere near the saildrive :)
I could not have "spronged off" (new term for an familair technique) in this situation because the boat parallel parked behind would have been in the way.
If you find yourself needing to spring the bow out further in the future I suggest doubling the line back to the stern cleat and then hold it at the helm (so the dockline goes cleated at stern, looped through bull rail, looped around stern cleat then to your hand). When you held the line directly from the cockpit you were pulling the boat into the dock forward of the fender/pivot point which limited how far the bow would spring off. You can actually chose a great frame for your side by side here th-cam.com/video/4aPwZ6g_-ww/w-d-xo.html that shows the part of the line to your hand under tension and the line from the stern cleat to the bull rail is actually slack. If you then put another fender where your port side becomes your transom you should be able to spring out to 60 degrees or more (until the transom or dinghy get in the way).
Thank you for the comment. Will try "spronging off' but will never be a fan of springing a small boat. I've just never needed it.
Marco, when we use the outside- starboard cleat- the bow does spring right out.
Also we use many more fenders, and especially like those big round balloons commercial fishermen use.
Edward, watching from Newfoundland.
Thanks Edward. I definitely will be trying that.
The reason your rear spring was not effective was due to the angle of the line you were holding. I noticed in the video that the line to your rear cleat never tightened up. Had you run the line you were holding further aft, the spring would have been more effective.
I had a feeling someone would comment on that. However I don’t agree. Once the corner of the stern is against the dock the bow will not go out any further. The only way to lever the bow further out would be to run the spring from the stbd side as some other viewers have suggested. th-cam.com/video/H6O6gqcFxT0/w-d-xo.html
@@CarpeDiemSailingMagazine Respect and thanks for sharing. Whilst I recognise your desire for simplicity, given your negative opinion of the technique, I am not convinced you were actually trying very hard or being patient enough. The beauty of springing off is that until you cast off the manoeuvre is very controllable and you can change your mind if you are not happy. In my experience it is usually possible to spring the bow out much further and beyond the point where stern might touch the dock. The only other comment I would make is that if the fender had been much further back you would have had a better fulcrum as well as better protection of stern from the dock.
Well done for your honesty, nice to see. In my humble opinion a much more considered and improved explanation of the issues. I used to put the spring on the cockpit winch so you don’t need to hold the rope until you transition from reverse to forward. You can also remain on the boat so it can be a swift and efficient operation when practiced. I had a Tradewind 35 long keel yacht which weighed about 10 tons and I did about 40,000 miles single handed but it had a narrower pinched in stern so the bow came out a long way, probably further then some modern hull designs. Springing off worked well in U.K. waters with strong tidal streams an in my particular boat which was also heavy to manoeuvre by hand. Never found much use for a bow spring single handed as you had to go to the bow to release and the boat was difficult to manoeuvre backwards with the long keel so it never really worked. Thank you again for the great explanation of the options. Keep them coming.
Thanks for the comment and support Richard.
Great job explaining the different options.
Thank you for your input. Appreciate it. 🙏😊
Thank you for that discussion. Only makes it more interesting.
Hello Marco, I do agree that the original video was a bit of a tight departure. However, it is super important for people who are not experienced like me to be aware of how not to execute certain manoeuvres, or how to recover from wrongly executed manoeuvres. Showing what was executed wrongly and how it is supposed to be executed, is of greater value to anyone, especially new joiners. I am a flying coach and can 100% vouch for that, based on student feedback.
This is what makes your channel standout. Showing only the happy day scenarios is great, but there are so many variables that impact sailing overall, how to deal with the unplanned is of absolute importance.
Once again, thank you for the great videos. They are helping coming a long with my RYA course.
Ps. Springing off maybe good but if you have a dinghy or other hanging obstruction, this can impact the spring off process. It seems that your dinghy is touching the railing of the pontoon.
Thank s for the comment and the awesome ongoing support.
Spot on analysis. I've owned a 12000 and a 22000lb monohull. I never used spring techniques on the smaller one, except when I was learning. However, I do so occasionally on the larger. My favorite technique: ask someone for help--before I untie!
Thanks for sharing!
As a relatively inexperienced sailor, your videos are great at explaining issues that I'm facing. I watch your film then go and experiment with the technique on the boat. Many thanks for good and clear instruction and for being a real confidence booster to the newbies out here.
Thanks Andy. I’m delighted that you are finding value in the videos. I appreciate the encouraging support 😊
Thank you so much for your honesty and advice! Especially about steering into the powerboats to avoid colliding with them on your stern is a mind-blowing advice for many!
I was however surprised about the technique of taking in the final line (e.g. the springline)
I was tought to make the springline doubled. If you pass the line from the boat as a bight and pull that bight around a cleat or even fence, you can bring the bight back to the boat and put it on a cleat. In this way, you can stay on the boat while casting off the final springline, as you just release the bight from the cleat and pull in the whole line. There is minimal risk of it dropping in the water and you are on the boat at all times (thus giving more control and limiting the risk of falling in the water). I might be able to illustrate it if you are interested! Thanks again for all the info and advice, I'll definitely keep following!
Hi Jake,
Thank you for the kind feedback. Yes I am familiar with that technique and I typically use it when there is a lot of wind. When there is little or no wind I don't find that I need it and I like to keep things as simple as possible and only complicate my life if there is an obvious benefit. I have found that sometimes slipping the line from a cleat or rail runs the risk of the line catching as you are retrieving it and then the situation becomes worse so for me its a preference thing but definitely worth considering depending on the situation.
Wonderful video! I do find spring lines handy when I’m single handing but I have an extra safety buffer. I’ll use floating dock lines so if they do drop in the water it’s no rush to retrieve them or risk of fouling the prop. The floating dock lines are soft, flexible, with a hand similar to nylon dock lines and great for temporary docking.
Love it! Thanks Jennifer.
I'm late to the game, having only recently found your channel. This was a great episode, and I got more out of it than just leaving a dock in that situation. I'm fairly new to keelboat sailing, and have had challenging moments backing a Cal 2-25 out of a slip at the inboard end of a fairway, where there's a sllip on the other side of the fairway with a float connecting them. There's nowhere for the stern to go, and the turn down the fairway can be awkward. As I watched your video, I realized that that best way to handle that is to walk the boat back almost to the opposite side and spring off to point the bow down the fairway toward open water. Everything's under control.
Thanks for the comment Max Rudder. Glad to hear it. Sure makes sailing more fun when you remove some of the stress and anxiety, doesn't it?
Glad you put this video back up with your review. I also find with a smaller boat (26ft) pushing the bow out with a fender towards the stern acting as a fulcrum works fine. Although, I'd be hesitant about gunning it out of the docks. Thanks for your videos and for sharing your experience.
Thanks for taking the time to comment Darren. Yes with a smaller boat pushing out will work but I do discourage this as it is a potentially dangerous practice. Having said that I have done it myself in extreme circumstance.
As always great job Marco thanks for these. Very classy move to admit even professionals don’t always get everything right.
Thanks Daniel. I appreciate the support.
How about telling the power boats, 'No double-parking!' lol...Thanks, Marco
Good one!
Great and usefull.
If I may comment I'd like to mention an operation I did experience in very similare situations with good success.
The wind push from aft and I'm along a pontoon on port side. I draw a line from my aft starbord cleat to a point on the pontoon further aft. When I realease other all other lines, the wind just gently turn my bow away from pontoon and other boats I want to avoid.
When my ship has turned sufficiently I recover the line and engage the engine to go.
Great tip! Yes I have heard of this. I will try it.
Springing off does seem to be the way to go when it's that tight. I think moving the spring line on the dock a little farther aft might help swing the bow out further, no? I don't have the experience to say for sure, but my hunch is that. I just bought a 32' boat and had an issue with 20 knots of wind pushing me (pinning me) right into the dock. After that I began to look into strategies for getting off a doc in that situation. An hence my look at this vid. Glad to have heard both perspectives. Know what I did? I asked the marina for help. They did, and I got off and running fine after that.
Asking for help is definitely OK in my book if there's help available! A good push is often all you need!
Unfortunately I am not a fan of pushing off if it can be avoided. It does work but only on smaller boats, in calm conditions and is a dangerous practice
I will be trying a different technique called "spronging off" which has promise. Stay tuned. Yes marina staff are great help, if they are around which is not always the case hence my encouragement of independence. Thanks for watching and for taking the time to comment.
We have learned through the years that backing on a stern spring line works exceptionally well for our canoe stern sailboat. That being said, I would have to reconsider if I were solo because our center cockpit arrangement does not allow me to tend the stern spring then quickly return to the helm. I would need to re-think my strategy in that case. Thanks for sharing this.
Very good points 👍
Thanks for your comment.
Hello Marco,
Thank you for making these sailing lessons and things to consider, they have helped me a lot to learn more about sailing. Thank you and I appreciate your efforts and the hard work you put in to making these free online class possible. Thank you very much and I appreciate it a lot!
After watching this particular video of leaving the dock, I have thought that it would be possible to leave the dock with the main sail at broad reach on the port side and untying the bow and spring line first and the stern line last while stearing to starboard side after the the sail catch enough trust. For under power of leaving the dock in the condition of the video and animation have shown, I think it might be safe to keep the bow line while puting the extra fenders on the front port side until the wind turns the stern of the boat and use the prope walk of the direction of your boat screw as it will prope walk to port moving the boat to left at when the boat is passed from perpendicular from the dock it will be the perfect timing to use the prope walke and quickly untying the bow line and by then the boat would be at perpendicular to the dock again and you would be at the helm by then to slowly steering the boat out from the docking backward. Can it be possible at the reality of the conditions to operate in such a way to avoid the risk of collision what was seen in the video? I think the boat was driven out from the dock like a car, but there are more potentials and dynamics to consider for water locomotion vessels and advantages of dynamics to incorporate in the safty of vessels and efficiency of use. You tube teaching lessons making is not an easy skill when especially it's a practical skill and theory like sailing lesson to make for others. Certainly it puts a lot of pressure on the preparation, illustrations, timing, lessons and everything. I hope you will stay safe and well!
Best of luck and keep safe!
Fair winds and following seas!
Sincerely,
Thank you for the comment and the question. There was no wind that day and the direction of the wind would certainly determine the steps to be taken. There are numerous options for that situation. As I said in the video I personally like to keep things simple and I should have taken more time to get the bow well out. The last time I was in that harbour (a couple of weeks ago) it was much more crowded and I chose to spring forward until the stern was well out and then I backed out.
Great to humour those who 'know' - your experience shows, but great to show me as a novice the options and your personal preferences, THANKS :)
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for taking the time to leave a comment Rory.
Very much enjoying this series. I'm soon to be single-handing and these vids are a helpful tool to re-calibrate my brain. Your friend is clearly not a fan of springing-off. Otherwise, he may have named her Spring Theory! Cheers Marco for your work.
Thank you IggyG. I appreciate the support
Thank you for reposting.
No problem. Hope you liked it.
Put the stern spring on the starboard stern cleat, not the port cleat, then motor forward…
She will spring way way, out… much better.
Thank you for the comment Edward. I’m planning to try that and do a video on it. Looking forward to trying it.
I feel your demonstration of springing off is still flawed. To be fully effective, a spring line to the cleat on the rear corner of the boat needs to taking the tension whereas in your demo, the line to the cleat is slack and all tension is taken by the line to your hands and standing in the cockpit the spring cannot be fully effective. I'd suggest the line back to your hands should feed around the cleat on the rear corner where the spring is anchored, then I believe the spring would be more effective in swinging the bow further off the pier.
Cheers, and thanks for the great videos
Thanks for the comment. I will be looking further into springing off this summer
Good video. Good job. I worry using a spring because of what you mention. That original video did freak me out big time!!!
Thanks Dana
I’m with you Marco, less warp work, let the boat do the job, thanks, outstanding animations
Thanks Mark, appreciate the support.
Both techniques have merit and should be applied when conditions warrant. The key for the Competent sailor is to know the multiple techniques
Thanks John. Heartily agree
Tip, I always have a big bal fender (0,5m diameter) with me. The angle of the bow increases a lot. (Bavaria 36 Cruiser)
Roving fender. Good work. Thanks for the comment ChrisNLD
Use a polypropylene line for springing, it floats so do not foul prop. Same for mid ship spring line if throwing a loop over cleats in case miss.
That's actually a great idea. Thanks for sharing.
I still do not agree, sorry. In general spring lines are very helpful, especially when single handed. Pull the stern by hand only works in very light wind from straight aft, and gives only slight angle at most.
In this case here I would use the stb aftline (slip and as long as possible) only, then the engine in foreward low power with rudder to port (the dock) first until the stern is clear, then centered. The boat will slowly move from the dock then turn the bow away. When the angle is good (30-45°) release the line and pull in.
Advantages: It works even in stronger winds, you can turn 90° and more (even to windward), engine stays untouched you can focus on steering and line handling, no risk to get line into prop.
Thank you for you comment but I have to disagree that pulling in the bow only achieves a "slight angle at most". That was clearly shown in the video. I'm not saying that springlines aren't helpful, I'm simply saying that for me I dont find the extra complications worth the trouble. In thirty years of sailing and teaching on boats of 22 to 50 feet in many different parts of the world I have never needed to spring off and my technique has always worked for me and for me I will continue to do as I always have. Having said that the method you describe (if I understand it correctly) is worth looking into. A few other viewers have suggested the same and I believe it is the only way of achieving more bow angle as it moves the stern out away from the dock. I will be trying it out and doing a video on it. Bottom line as I said in the video I was simply presenting options so that people can make up their own minds as to what works for them. For you springing off obviously works.
That's an excellent video, but in my opinion, it shows not what it intends to show. Actually, you are NOT reversing against the spring that is the line that is attached to the stern cleat (not pulled tight!) but to the loose part of the line that is in your hand (pulled tight!). Thus, you don't get enough leverage as the line in your hand pulls from the centre of the stern and not the far port side. Additionally, there are better methods to clear the spring line in order to get it in more quickly. Properly reversing into the right line, you should be able to get more than a 45° angle by springing.
Thanks for your comment. The lube is not loose. It’s actually caught on a plank under the dock. So the pull was still on the cleat. Having said that I will be revisiting it once again. I do want to try “sproinging off” If you’ve ever heard of that. Thanks again for watching and contributing
@@CarpeDiemSailingMagazine @ 16:25 you can see it very clearly: The part of the line in your hand is tight, the part from the dock to the cleat is hanging loose. Actually, there are two spring-lines here, but "working" is only the part without much leverage. The lever for "springing off" is always the distance between the propeller and the "pivot-point" on board, which should be the cleat and not the hand. I'm sorry, but that's the physics in this case.
Another way to cast off under these circumstances would be a line from the starboard aft cleat backwards (as far as possible) to the pier. You would need good fending-off on the port side of the stern. Then you give forward thrust, and the bow would move to the right. With the rudder to port, you should be able to get the whole boat off the pier before you let go the line, maybe to even prevent the port side from touching the dock. As soon as you have reached the appropriate angle, you can let go the mooring line with the advantage that all the length of the line is behind your propeller, and you won't have to go past the line as you move forward. Just a thought!
...and I love discussing manoeuvre options! 😇
In calm conditions like you had, I employ some physics to "bounce" the bow out. I leave the stern breast at its normal length and when I untie it, I pull the stern aggressively toward the dock which compresses the aft most fender. It then bounces the midship and bow outward while I hold the stern in. Once the bow is out as far as I want it, I step aboard and motor out. This uses the compressibility of the fender (elastic collision) and Newtons 3rd law of motion (for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction) with a touch of Sumation of moments = 0 to let the inward pull create an outward push to the front of the boat which rotates the boat out away from the dock. I have often had a fuel dock worker ask me if I need a push out from the dock to which I say "No, I've got it" and step aboard at the stern as the bow swings away from him. The best reward is a started "how did you do that!?!?" because it happens so quickly that they often miss my inward pull.
Better boating through Engineering.
Thanks for the comment. The bottom line for me, in calm conditions with my boat, is to keep things simple. I really never spring off.
@@CarpeDiemSailingMagazine I agree. It's particularly hard to spring off with bull rails. That is why I came up with the method of bouncing the bow out by pulling against the fender
Thanks for being so honest:)
Thanks Martin, I appreciate the support! 👍😊
I think if you tied the stern line off as a slip line you may have got more leverage to push the bow out and your hands would have been free for the helm (held hard to port initially) and throttle in reverse until the bow angle was sufficient to straighten the helm release the slip line and move away in fwd. I liked the other comment about setting the stern slip to stbd and keen to try this one at the next opportunity
Yes. I want to try that stbd line too
The 4th option starboard quarter to dock about 6+m aft of vessel and return. A video on this would show it to be the easiest method to safely depart in this situation. I know from many years experience including mainsail and no engine that this is easiest. I also have 2 cylinder fender tied together at Port quarter.
Thanks I’ll check it out
I would prefer: 1) idle in reverse to match the force of wind and so holding the vessel in place, 2) untie the last line or two to cast off, 3) hard right rudder to pull stern off the dock 3) feather throttle to hold fore/aft position as the stern moves out, 4) when far enough off the dock, center the rudder .. at this point the wind will blow the bow directly downwind of the stern, 5) drive away normally.... this works with current astern even better.
Thanks for watching and I appreciate you taking the time to leave your comment but for me what you suggest is way too complicated, especially single handed. Plus I don’t quite understand what you’re saying. Hard right rudder in forward will push the stern towards the dock not away. Also putting the boat in gear as you step off the bust to untie lines is a very bad idea and I would never suggest that to anyone. The reality is that in thirty years of teaching snd sailing 22-50 foot boats all over the world in all kinds of conditions I have very seldom if ever needed to spring off. Much less add the complexity of what you suggest. As I said in my video I like my technique for me and I’ve never needed anything more complex but I completely respect if others like and use more complex techniques
Would pushing the bow out with a boat hook or something also have worked? Perhaps pushing just forward of midship then jumping on?
Thanks for the comment. As I mention in the video, I’m not a fan of pushing a boat out, and I’m definitely not a fan of fending off with a boat hook. Very commonly seen, this is a very dangerous practice in my opinion. For one thing it puts you at risk by leaning out over the water and its not possible with large heavy boats, springing off under power then becomes your only option
I just had an opportunity to watch this part.
Indeed once I seen the very first movie with an example of leaving a dock sinhle handed I had much doubts regarding the safety of that manouver.
Regarding the alternative presented - springing off - I have one major comment. The boat will reach much better angle If you move your fender further back , almost to the very end. This makes the big difference.
Second comment is that you do not need to clear the line completly before you touch the gear. As you move forward your line coming from the dock has very limited chance of getting you into the trouble.
And the last comment - as I value your videos high- you should not show young viewers that you move from boat to dock with any line in your hand. The rule is clear - line on the dock Then Man on the dock…..:-)
Thanks for your comment.
Good video. I have a 322 as well. Couple of thoughts. In the 1st video, I probably would not have attempted to get past those boats without someone being on the outside power boat just in case. At only 1-2 boat lengths away, there's no way I would've gone forward until my bow was pointing clear of those two boats. But that's just me, who single hands about 90% of the time. I find that when I need to get the bow off, a good push off the dock usually gets me pointed out far enough. If that doesn't work, I go to the spring line. IN my neck of the woods I deal with dock cleats most of the time, so it's usually easy enough to swing the line clear without much fuss. Another other option (depending on wind, current, other boats, etc.) is to come off the dock in reverse. If you get a good push off the dock, or a favorable wind (or no wind), getting back a boat length with the bow moving across could be enough to get you clear of what's in front of you on the dock. Then shift to forward and off you go.
Lots of ways to skin this cat. Good post, and good food for thought.
Thanks for the comment Mickey. As I mentioned in the video I'm not a fan of pushing the boat out, I find that to be an unsafe practice. Also as mentioned I like to keep things simple and I'm not a fan of springing off, especially singlehanded. I have never needed it in thirty years of teaching and cruising boats 22-50 feet in all conditions. For those that like springing, if they're happy I'm happy.
Could another strategy be to have spronged by rigging an outboard stern spring, and then engaging forward drive with helm hard to port, thus bring your bows out to starboard and keeping your stern away from the jetty. Then when you get the angle you want, midships the rudder and slip the sprong line?
“Spronging” off should definitely work better. I have been planning to try it out and do a video but have not had a chance yet. For me the reality is that in my 30+ years of cruising I have very rarely needed to spring off, that includes a little of single handing. I prefer to keep things simple and not complicate my life. A solid foundation of docking fundamentals is really important and I find that people don’t have that foundation and then they try to compensate with adjunctive manoeuvres. Thanks for watching and for taking the time to comment
You don't get out enough....in all senses. :)
There's ALWAYS a better way that other's use and we're not aware of.
Suggestion.
Set a slip line from the STARBOARD stern cleat to shore.
Driving forward helmed hard to port will push the stern away from the dock.
Gradually ease and feed out the line while also gradually helming less than to port.
She will pivot on the starboard cleat forcing the bows way way out. Slip the line and drive out at 45 to 90 degrees.
It's called spronging and can turn the boat any angle up to 180. So forget a raft, this'll get you off even if you're pointing at the fairway's dead end.
You might want to keep a floating line as a single handing propwrap mitigation.
Don't forget to always helm to shore.
I'll await version 3 of the video.
Edit. Damn. I could have just sent you here.
th-cam.com/video/1bLf7C-jAG0/w-d-xo.html
Yes. Couple other viewers have suggested same and I will be trying it. Looks like a great technique. But bottom line for me is simplicity so I’m going to keep doing what I’ve been doing and keep it simple as much as possible.
That topic - vhf, gps MMSI coast guard radio, sounds like a new episode , unless you gave already covered it!
Yes sir!
When you demonstrated the aft spring, the bight of the line was creating the inward pull that prevented the bow from rotating outward. If you would have had that line running under the pulpit to the rear chock, the outward rotation would have been much greater. Then what most people will do is let the line trail as you start to pull forward and pull it in as you get abreast of the cleat. It is unlikely to foul into the prop given that it is above, to the side and aft of the prop.
Admittedly, springing either aft or fore does not work as well with a bull rail as it does with a cleat due to the large friction on the bull rail and the possibility of the line hanging up.
Thank you for your comment
A question that has been bothering me…
It’s regarding the vhf radio Emergency Distress ‘button’ …
Do you need both a GPS signal tied into the vhf radio, and an MMSI number programmed into the vhf radio
before the Distress DSC alarm will function?
Thanks
Edward
Short answer is yes. I recently bought a handheld vhf with built in GPS
have you tried tie the aft spring line to the starboard side of the boat similar to this th-cam.com/video/H6O6gqcFxT0/w-d-xo.html ? will it give you a better angle?
I thought of this as well but I'm not sure how it would go doing it singlehanded. Managing the helm and the spring at the same time could be difficult.
Thanks rel53. That’s pretty neat, definitely worth playing with and trying out. Might try it out and use it in a video
Could move the fender more to the stern and add one extra. After reversing in a spring (not hand hold), let the boat turn an angle a little more then you need, turn the engine in neutral l, remove the spring and go.
Thank you for the comment Raphael
I'm curious, suppose you had the spring line or breast line on the port stern and then tried to pull it around with a line on the starboard stern. Would you consider this a viable option? I suppose it would be easier if you had kevels or bollards instead of square timbers working any of the options.
Absolutely proper cleats or bollards would work better. Springing off from the starboard side does look like a viable option as you can manoeuvre the stern out away from the dock.
I am in a slip. Do you have a solo video leaving and returning solo.
I do and will be posting soon.
I'm old school... I kick the bow out, cast the stern line, hop on and putt off in your conditions. The one time I remember not kicking hard enough I had a nail-biter like yourself. Where you been these days?... hope everything's OK. Gave up on waiting for you to sell me your boat and bought a c34mk2 ;;)
I like it!
@@CarpeDiemSailingMagazine Oh, and BTW, I just sold my little O'Day 222 to a nice couple here in Comox. Suggested they get a hold of you for some sailing lessons
@@Cacheola Thank you. My first boat was an O’Day 25 from Comox. It was my start in keel boat sailing ⛵️
Boats are so exciting, But only to look at when they're dock.
😂
Respect.
Thank you Geoffrey!
What is your action falling overbord henging at your vest ? Can you Get. Aboard again , i Wonder ? Ex Navy 😊
It looked to me like your spring line never really got tight when you reversed
I know but it was. It was caught under a plank on the dock giving the line a weird angle but it was tight
Ok. Enjoying the videos. Thanks for making them.
There are several different ways to spring off. Since I always use an after bow spring line to snug the vessel into the dock while loading (with the engine in forward idle and rudder pushing the stern into the dock), I can just throw the wheel over to push the stern out as far as needed for departure. A highwayman knot makes releasing the line easy for the helmsman or automatic with the running end snugged at the desired length. Then I just reverse away a bit before making a pivot turn either direction. By ALWAYS docking and departing the same way, there is never any hard thinking to do, regardless of wind direction or crew status.
Thanks for the comment.
Great content and discussion.
Thank you 🙏😊
Europeans need to know how to spring off because of fuel docks and how close people park!
Thanks John
in this case perhaps this other technique could be considered to move the bow away from the pier
th-cam.com/video/Bqn2C-ChOj0/w-d-xo.html
Yes. I have heard it called "sproinging off" in North America. I have been planning to try it. It seems to work well. I particularly liked how the guy in the video set up his dockline from outside the boat and used a proper cleat hitch. Thanks for sharing. I will be saving it for future reference.
Honesty! You are not a democrat. :)
Thank you lol!