Biggest issue with a VFD is... ALL start\stop\speed function is controlled by the VFD. That means all lathe controls are now either defunct, or need to be converted to operate the VFD. Next issue is, DC gives 100% torque at all speeds, AC will not, so you lose a lot of umph at slower speeds when driven by a VFD. I have a 1967 10EE (tube drive) and went through these exact scenarios before deciding to keep the O.G. setup and repair accordingly. I used a VFD for a short time on one of my Bridgeports as well and the hassle of controlling it all with the VFD made me appreciate the rotary converter even more.
I think if space weren't so tight in my garage I would love to nab a cheap 3P motor and wire up my own rotary phase converter and remain on OG. I think a decent compromise may be running the generator off of a VFD at fixed 60Hz and suffering the power loss associated with it. I could see why that may not be a good solution for tube drive. I could even go so far as to wire the original AC contactor to the VFD input so that the motor starter would always have power and MG Stop button would kill the spindle. Starting would go something like: Press MG start to power VFD, Press run on VFD, then operate machine normally. I suspect that the torque curve will still be fairly flat for a properly sized VFD. I don't have much VFD experience so feel free to put me in my place! I do have a very small VFD on hand I was thinking of installing on the surface grinder. Perhaps I can get my feet wet with that project and learn a thing or two before moving over to the 10EE. Thank you for sharing your experiences!
@@gaugeblockjenga if the MG runs all the time regardless of the spindle, then a VFD may be a great option. The cheap Amazon chinese ones are the way to go ! Get one rated 10-20% higher than your needs.
@@manmachinemake3708 Understood. Thanks you for the advice! It looks as though the 7.5kW class VFD may be the ticket. A 5kW may be cutting it a bit close.
@@gaugeblockjenga yeah, go big as that gives you a decent headroom vs cost. I used the 3hp (2.2kW ???) On my 2 HP bridgeport and it never even warmed up. That is now powering my 1920's Moloch 100# power hammer.
Motor pull mini rod solution was pretty ingenious. Think we've all seen the machines themselves moved on pipes - but Im not sure I've ever seen someone roll the motor out... 🙂
pft, it is more complicated than changing a lightbulb, but honestly, even with machines such as inbuilt powerfeed mills which have a whole cabinet of wonders, or jig/surface grinders with their magic boxes can be repaired by a dimwit, electrically speaking, if and only if the machine has not been tampered with by idiots before the one we are talking about is trying to fix it now... Any idiot can when given a properly set up machine with burnt out components, fix it, as the only thing they have to do is photo record every little wire routing and make sure they will be able to put stuff in previously found condition, but with new components, as in case of old machinery, fuses and such are quite screamingly obvious when they fail... Coils and their insulation turns to ash covered wire, so the idiot just looks at the box, photos stuff, takes out the component, runs to the first proper tech and electrics store, gives the dude at the counter the thing that is obviously dead, has it identified(meaningless to an idiot, but now he even knows whats it called), gets a new part, goes back home and fits it as per the pictorial manual he made for himself... The worst part about old stuff is that some of it aint for sale no more... Certain types of fuses, transformers, filters and so on... That is where the idiot will truly be stuck, as an idiot will not be able to rely on depth of knowledge and possible available information to make themselves the component needed, or even then, the materials might not be obtainable any more... That is the major problem, but this kid seems to be interested, informed enough and capable of learning and exploring, so im sure he will do fine... Hell, he even labeled stuff, despite having a whole video archive of disassembly...
You're absolutely right. I spent a healthy number of days studying the drive system so that I had a good non-idiot level understanding before tackling the removal. I'll make a sacrifice to the lathe gods and hope I don't need to scour the web for any more replacement parts. (I've already replaced the 440V coil with a 230V coil and replaced the OL heaters) I have a lot of respect for how this was designed and am looking forward to cutting metal! Thanks for watching!
Looking forward to seeing the end result. Keep up the good work. I'm about to start on a grinder and also a horizontal mill restore soon.
You have quite a wonderful shop setup! The cylindrical griding attachment would be pretty fun to tinker with :)
Biggest issue with a VFD is... ALL start\stop\speed function is controlled by the VFD. That means all lathe controls are now either defunct, or need to be converted to operate the VFD.
Next issue is, DC gives 100% torque at all speeds, AC will not, so you lose a lot of umph at slower speeds when driven by a VFD.
I have a 1967 10EE (tube drive) and went through these exact scenarios before deciding to keep the O.G. setup and repair accordingly. I used a VFD for a short time on one of my Bridgeports as well and the hassle of controlling it all with the VFD made me appreciate the rotary converter even more.
I think if space weren't so tight in my garage I would love to nab a cheap 3P motor and wire up my own rotary phase converter and remain on OG. I think a decent compromise may be running the generator off of a VFD at fixed 60Hz and suffering the power loss associated with it. I could see why that may not be a good solution for tube drive. I could even go so far as to wire the original AC contactor to the VFD input so that the motor starter would always have power and MG Stop button would kill the spindle. Starting would go something like: Press MG start to power VFD, Press run on VFD, then operate machine normally. I suspect that the torque curve will still be fairly flat for a properly sized VFD. I don't have much VFD experience so feel free to put me in my place! I do have a very small VFD on hand I was thinking of installing on the surface grinder. Perhaps I can get my feet wet with that project and learn a thing or two before moving over to the 10EE. Thank you for sharing your experiences!
@@gaugeblockjenga if the MG runs all the time regardless of the spindle, then a VFD may be a great option. The cheap Amazon chinese ones are the way to go ! Get one rated 10-20% higher than your needs.
@@manmachinemake3708 Understood. Thanks you for the advice! It looks as though the 7.5kW class VFD may be the ticket. A 5kW may be cutting it a bit close.
@@gaugeblockjenga yeah, go big as that gives you a decent headroom vs cost. I used the 3hp (2.2kW ???) On my 2 HP bridgeport and it never even warmed up. That is now powering my 1920's Moloch 100# power hammer.
Motor pull mini rod solution was pretty ingenious. Think we've all seen the machines themselves moved on pipes - but Im not sure I've ever seen someone roll the motor out... 🙂
Thanks! That's exactly where I got the idea from. Lone guy in a shop - need to default to old wisdom!
Looks like a lot of time-consuming, meticulous work! Excited to see it finished
Thank you for watching!
You're very brave for digging into the electrical stuff. The 10EE is pretty complicated in that department.
pft, it is more complicated than changing a lightbulb, but honestly, even with machines such as inbuilt powerfeed mills which have a whole cabinet of wonders, or jig/surface grinders with their magic boxes can be repaired by a dimwit, electrically speaking, if and only if the machine has not been tampered with by idiots before the one we are talking about is trying to fix it now... Any idiot can when given a properly set up machine with burnt out components, fix it, as the only thing they have to do is photo record every little wire routing and make sure they will be able to put stuff in previously found condition, but with new components, as in case of old machinery, fuses and such are quite screamingly obvious when they fail... Coils and their insulation turns to ash covered wire, so the idiot just looks at the box, photos stuff, takes out the component, runs to the first proper tech and electrics store, gives the dude at the counter the thing that is obviously dead, has it identified(meaningless to an idiot, but now he even knows whats it called), gets a new part, goes back home and fits it as per the pictorial manual he made for himself... The worst part about old stuff is that some of it aint for sale no more... Certain types of fuses, transformers, filters and so on... That is where the idiot will truly be stuck, as an idiot will not be able to rely on depth of knowledge and possible available information to make themselves the component needed, or even then, the materials might not be obtainable any more... That is the major problem, but this kid seems to be interested, informed enough and capable of learning and exploring, so im sure he will do fine... Hell, he even labeled stuff, despite having a whole video archive of disassembly...
You're absolutely right. I spent a healthy number of days studying the drive system so that I had a good non-idiot level understanding before tackling the removal. I'll make a sacrifice to the lathe gods and hope I don't need to scour the web for any more replacement parts. (I've already replaced the 440V coil with a 230V coil and replaced the OL heaters) I have a lot of respect for how this was designed and am looking forward to cutting metal! Thanks for watching!