Copper VS Stainless steel in distilling
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- We try to explain the benefits of using copper in the vapor stream of a pot still. Stainless steel and copper are both acceptable but there is some data that supports the use of copper in order to remove sulfites in a spirit. Most sulfite production happens in fruitier washes as opposed to sugar or grain but nonetheless it is still a problem for some people. There are also people who will support the use of stainless steel exclusively for distilling. In the end it is up to the distiller. We have used both methods and are comfortable with either as opposed to selecting one over the other.
Thank you for clarifying that the sulfide removal happens only in the vapor stream. I was not finding very good information about that in stainless vs copper pot still debates.
Clear, short n precise, well done George and many thanks from Australia
thats the best explanation i have heard yet, thank you. looking forward to more info from you guys
If I may. Been brewing/distilling for years. I started with my homemade still and have graduated to a stainless steel rig that I packed the head with copper. TRUST me it makes a difference. I don't run any grain washes, only sugar because I prefer a neutral spirit that I add extracts to. That being said I have no need for any flavoring so the copper works well for me. How do you know it's working? Well even after a single run the copper will turn colors as it extracts the sulfites and nasties in the vapor. In between runs it's recommended the mesh be rinsed out. It will have that tails smell all your distillers are familiar with. This is the roll the copper plays. The taller your column/more packing the better the results. Some recommend replacing the copper mesh after 5-6 runs but I don't stretch it that far. Maybe 2-3. The best part about using a stainless rig with copper mesh is there's no copper to have to clean, you simply replace the mesh after you're tired of rinsing it. My old still no matter how careful I was with cleaning it would eventually develop deposits in the lines rendering a dirty wash. You get that green deposit that unless you can get in there and wire brush/scrub off will have a nasty effect on your product. I triple distill my product so after my final spirit run my copper mesh is spotless and clean like new. That tells me the copper mesh in the 2 previous runs successfully removed all the nasties. It's way to go. Now if I can only save my pennies for that fractionating still..........
Thanks Steve for the comment.
George
Just started watching your videos in anticipation of getting my first still. Great job! Is there a good ready built option for a 1st timer for under $500. I want to make vodka and tequila, also infused flavors. Thanks
I bought a 100% copper distiller for water and it gave a strong copper taste to the water. Once I put it through a filter the smell was gone. I may have to invest in stainless steel unit.
What filter did you use? Like a brita?
@@newclearwinner4755 Yeah I used a brita filter.
I miss you bro and I hope you come back
Thank you for your information
The best setup is a SS boiler with a copper reflux column packed with SS scrubbers and a pre-condenser or dephlagmator in the top of the column and use a counter flow shotgun condenser for collection. This way the SS is easy to clean and you still get the benefits of copper removing the sulfites and a shotgun condenser takes up much less room than a copper worm.
+Thomas edwin You make a very good point and there are several set-ups that are all very good.
George
+Barley and Hops I have used choreboy copper scrubbers for column packing after cleaning them first with a solution of citric acid and hot water but I found that the copper scrubbers get smaller and smaller after each use from the heat and they also start turning a blackish color and need to be cleaned on a regular basis, The blackish color is caused from the copper scrubbers absorbing the sulfites in the vapor stream. Also copper scrubbers will turn a blue green color from verdigris if they are left in the column still wet from use. They will turn green just like your copper plumbing pipes in your basement from moisture. That blue green stuff is poisonous if you get enough in your liquor it will make you very sick. The best way to clean copper scrubbers to remove the black color from sulfite exposure or removing the green verdigris is to boil them in a SS pot with water and citric acid. I now use scotchbrite stainless steel pot scrubbers inside a copper column with a good sized wad of copper mesh in one end to get good sulfite removal. After each run I just pull out the copper mesh for cleaning and leave the stainless steel scrubbers in the column and just rinse it out with hot tap water and leave it to dry. The SS scrubbers stay very clean and only need cleaning after about every 5 or 6 runs. I have used marbles, glass beads and even ceramic rashing chips but the stainless steel scrubbers are by far much better because they stay clean longer and provide much more surface aria for condensation and reflux than other things But like George says you still want to have some copper in the vapor path for sulfite removal. All copper is the best thing to use but it's such a pain in the a$$ to keep clean. The only part of my still that is made from 304 stainless steel is the 15 gallon boiler and some of the SS tri-clamp fittings, All other parts are 99.9% copper plumbing pipes soldered together with lead free solder. My column is 3 inch diameter by 36 inches long with a 9 inch water cooled dephlegmator on the top of the column, then it goes into an 1&1/2 by 24 inch 7 tube shotgun condenser and then into a half inch output leg. I get around 75% ABV on the stripping run then on the second purifying run I get 94% to 96% alcohol by volume or 190 to 192 proof. It's crystal clear with a slight sweet smell, after that I can mix or dilute it with whatever I want or sometimes I do shots with a beer chaser. A 750 ML bottle of this will last me 2 weeks or longer.
+Thomas edwin awesome. I hope everyone reads through this. It is a very good description of how to accomplish this. Great job
George
What is the ratio of water to citric acid for the boiling?
Thank you George!!
Can you use enamel coated stainless steel to distilled
Do i need the Still Spirits Copper Alembic Dome Top or can i just get most of the benefit from just a copper Pot Still Alembic Condenser? Basically i have the Turbo 500 Still Kit with Stainless T500 Reflux Condenser and Turbo 500 Boiler and was thinking i could remove the reflux condensor and replace it with the copper Pot Still Alembic Condenser and save the 200 dollars for the copper dome.
love all ur videos and info keep up the good work
what about a SS pot still with a copper worm does that help with the sulfides? can someone please answer as soon as you can thank you so much in advance
Thans bunch for the info
Very helpful videos
Anyone else see the “100% copper mesh” turn to a more silver after a run in the stainless still? I bought the “100%” copper mesh from 2 different sources, one was from a brew house. It too lost the copper hue. How can one tell if it is 100%? Any 100% copper mesh made in America these days?
Wow! Claw-hammer! Stills!! (Your Wife is going to love it :)
Not being a metalurgist and chemist, I'm wondering if you have ran across anyone trying to use a titanium boiler in the past and safety of such? I ran across two of them but afraid to use....
Thanks! Love you channel. Just subscribed!
Not sure but I would imagine that titanium would be safe. Maybe worth a goggle.
George
This maybe a dumb question but does copper or stainless allow you to get more finished product over the other?
Thank you in advance
Can I pack the collum with copper even if I'm running pot still mode
Hello , I have a chrome and nickel alloy pressure cooker.Should I use that as pot ?
Even after a steamed vinegar wash the inside is black so to speak but the spirit still runs clean. Is it still poisonous?
could we use a 2 inches lead free brass as a column and fill it with copper mesh or stainless steel pallrings but use copper as a condenser ? Thank you for replying.
What is your saying on a glass collumn?
Just a question but instead of using copper mesh as packing could you also use a copper tube inside of the colum just slightly smaller then the colum itself so if your colum is 2 inches you can use a 1 1/2 piece ?
Just started rewatching your videos. In some of these presentations you make reference to previously covered topics. Have you taken some of these down?
Thank you for the explanation, very detailed. I'm looking to find a large distiller made out of ceramic, does anyone know where I can find one? I searched everywhere, and I'm already thinking of crushing some pottery class.
If I wanted to pick up a good book on distilling do you have any recommendations?
yeah, you can def taste the difference between copper and steel, and copper is a pain to clean... but it's oh so good :)
In regards to buying a copper still and cooling a coil - can ice be placed in the pot that holds the coil to cool it or does running water the only option.
Water with ice is the best option. Without the water it is difficult to realize the heat transfer without the water surrounding the coils.
George
Interesting Thank you
put the coil in a bucket of water and it shoud be able to distill 20ltrs of wash after that replace the water in the bucket or it wont condense so well.
Sauce on the copper- sulfate interaction in the vapor phase?
What about a glass distiller
If I connect a hose under the mash bucket and a hose on top of the bucket airtight and ran another hose to bucket full of salt and a air pump and just pump the moist air through the bucket to the salt bucket now that sounds like a cleaner way to to go about it no more copper or a fire needed. What do you think you think it'll work I've never tried it
Not sure how this would work. Sounds like a project that deserves some attention.
George
I saw a show where a guy had green liquor from a still. He didn't clean his steel. He said you can still use the product as a cleaning solution. 😂😂
I talked to you a while back on the phone and wanted to sh I was you the finished product
did popcorn use marbles ?
doug lucas popcorn was making money from his still. George does it as a hobby. He is trying to get the best flavor from his still. Popcorn was trying to get the biggest bang for his buck.
@@Matt-sh5bk and it tasted like burnt corn.
jaked924 no actually was good
@@isaacezekielthecolorblindg7343 not what I had
jaked924 May have got a bad batch
is there any way to send you pictures of a still to get your personal and professional opinion
+kenneth blair Kenneth send it to george.duncan76@gmail.com
George
Small but important distinction. You are talking about sulfiDes. Not sulfites.
Thanks
George, what's the best way to stop fermentation so that I can bottle?
Add potassium sorbate
boil for a few minutes and stop when it starts to bubble.
what do you use for sanitizing your utensils
I use Star-san. It is readily available on line. Just type in Star-San.
I also thought about inserting copper mesh in the stainless steel column but I wonder if they might react during distilling and emit harmful compounds into the product. You confidently say we can insert copper mesh into the column. Are you sure it's definitely harmless?
Yes
......I want to make a still out of lead.......how bout dat ?
Just wondering but have u ever looked into the dangers of stainless steel...chromium and nickel being leached out of it not sure if it applies to distilling but I know it does to cooking with stainless some doctor's believe nickel is just as bad as mercury if not worse this is why I use an all copper set up its worth a Google lol
What about aluminum pot?
Aluminum is not recommended for brewing. There are a host of good reasons mostly the chemical reaction between aluminum and anything you are brewing or distilling.
George
Barley and Hops Brewing thank you
brewing is not recomended,BUT u can use it to distil
What is the best way and best cleaning agent to use to clean the copper?
I use CLR from walmart. Costs about $5 a bottle. It is calcium,lime,rust remover. Works great but you need to rinse with warm soapy water afterwards.
George
ok see a copper pot is the best when it comes to taste even a stainless steel pot but always use a copper condenser.
Lol
Has anyone ever seen or heard of a copper plated still or condenser? did it actually flake off or get ruined over time?
Wouldn't be worth the risk. I got shine poisoned one. Trust me not worth the risk.
On Sale. @ shop.sahnwin.com/collections/lifestyles-misc/distiller.
Thank you
thank you
I found the info you have been pedaling entertaining and most of it was neither here nor there but informative, but this video... you killed it for me...
your comment about copper playing no part in the boiler... pew pew pew...
snake oil salesman FTW...
We all have our own opinion. I value yours and appreciate the comment you left.
I guess being polite in a reply, using "we all have our own opinion" is a good way to deflect being incorrect.
If you are going to preach how to to people, at least get it right...
Im going to leave you with one word to look up and study...
"esterification"
Have a nice day...
Yes, Simply adding some copper offcuts to your boiler is all that is needed.
It has been shown that adding scraps of copper to your boiler removes what is described as a stale potato smell/taste from your end product.
I'm not proclaiming to know what the exact process is, but its said the acids and fats in your wash react with the copper producing esters or aromatic fruity essences/smells that come across in the distillation process and various heavy salts that cant be distilled over in the vapour path.
I collected a pile of copper tube off cuts, 3/8" - 1 1/2" dia and about 1 - 2" long, I then threaded them onto a length of 3-4ft length of copper earth wire making a snake of copper tube off cuts so they can be easily removed, I found the smaller 1/2 dia tube was harder to clean.
This is inexpensive and simple to do by anybody.