How loud should you master ambient music?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.ค. 2024
- tl;dw: Anywhere between -13 LUFS and -10 LUFS.
In this video I analyze a variety of ambient tracks using the LUFS meter in FabFilter Pro-L 2 to see how loud they have been mastered. I was surprised at the wide spectrum of results!
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00:00 Intro
00:54 Jon Hopkins - "Tayos Caves, Ecuador ii"
01:56 Onehotrix Point Never - "Describing Bodies"
02:28 Lawrence English - "November 16 - Dead Oak"
03:56 Benoit Pioulard & Offthesky - "Fed on Lilies"
04:34 Ben Frost - "All That You Love Will Be Eviscerated"
06:09 Fennesz - "Rivers Of Sand"
07:13 Kilometre Club - "Campfires"
08:11 Six Missing - "Possibility"
08:59 Brett Naucke - "Glass Touch"
09:44 OVRSCN - "Ataxia"
10:37 Final thoughts - เพลง
Request a FREE master sample of one of your songs:
holosuitemastering.com/sample
More free resources on producing and releasing experimental music:
holosuitemastering.com/resources
Super Interesting video, there's not much Ambient related content that specifically focuses on Loudness and technical aspects on youtube... Keep it up!
Thanks so much for your support!
amazing how loud and dense that dead oak track is without fluttery compression artifacts. BEAUTIFUL. so carefully done.
Dense indeed! That whole album is fantastic
Oh my goodness - was so lucky to stumble onto your channel. Thank you! Exactly what I was looking for!
Thanks so much for watching! Happy to be of service 😁
Btw for other folks wanting to try this themselves, make sure you disable Spotify's integrated loudness normalization feature. Otherwise it will level everything to a max of -14LUFS integrated.
Thanks for that, I mentioned that I did that in the video, but perhaps I wasn't clear enough 😅
@@holosuitemastering sorry if I missed it!
All good, it's buried in a pile of nonsense 😋
Objectively I am enjoying in Ballad style -16db and in general when headroom is Free a little bit by 2 or 3 db I am enjoying it and my ears can relax but a tiny difference is making everything to scream and in those cases I have to lower volume manually. I am Long time Producer and I meet many engineers who think the same and scientists who regulated Standards a little bit are saying the same thing . My conclusion is that when I went to make snow blind noise I will do it intentionally and in other case I will make clean and balanced Mix when I am going for the organic Sound. That's where conflict starts because lack of objectivity which is crucial and it's about making decisions which some... avoid by using templates and at the end expensive gear sounds worse, screaming and exiting " details " and my intention to do clean introduction or just clean FX in which Silence and sound are consisting. You seem to understand the concept of freedom which is important and is above everything in hierarchy as an idea for familiar but unique and very important to fit in the mix with others. That's how listers don't lose interest but rather listen a little bit longer because they recognize track and because it's like extension of the mix they want to hear it and it's same with different Genres. Psy Trance or Techno a pure Techno is Phenomenon that is changing effect positive whenever sound is Authentic so we come to fluid sound in accepted boundaries that determine Drone Space Ambient and suddenly Nature is Space and Vice Versa. Standardized Sound like some Labels are forcing with Psy Trance is OK but again when it's Gathering Best moments can have that effect among other good but different Kick and Bass without Melody or just with FX and percussion's...same is with Ambient Music and it should be a feature because it's Free Music without Dictating or pressuring anyone to react and soon it will be something that people will gather knowingly. When I play on Big Sound System to demonstrate everyone is accepting Music as new, different unpredictable and no Drums to Dictate is Freedom for the majority of people. I am aware why they are enjoying i but doubt that it's easy to realize that it's because no existing Dictate so it's OK to talk, to walk to get carried by Deep and reach Drone and someone will listen to birds and person that will come in 5 minutes will enjoy in familiar but unknown Sound without Nature and silence will be that thing for a person who is passionate about Frequencies/Ambient. It's everything together in clubs , open air places and with headphones in everyday Life. And Life is Beautiful. I am now confident in Music and Nish is helping because those types of persons don't expect and they know and they are feeling different in those conditions without obligation which rhythmic Elements are forcing on the space, a place and everything passively aggressive. I love both but I like to Dance with the Kick and other rhythmic intervals but why not have a different vibe and when you get carried you can but if you see someone you can meet her or talk with friends or meet new people ect. I wrote a long comment because I was using all kinds of advanced techniques ( catch all ) but instead I can do something with overlapping LFO and different positions of the same phrases and everything will float in beautiful harmony without understanding what is happening and how it's happening like a Magic. Sub Bass, OK but I am 100% sure that it will be a perfect fit for someone who felt the need for softness without Roaring .
In one sentence, like Rock Music had a different temperament that's how Ambient should be able to breathe too .
I hope that we will do something together in the near future but however I think that channel is nailed many aspects and you stayed Objective and that's a PRO .
Thanks! Nice to connect with others who share my perspective😊
Sometimes I wonder how much to go for loudness since I'm making ambience for someone's indie video game. I guess I currently view a louder master as a way increase the limit of how loud the person can make the audio particularly in the in-game settings. Though, if one ambience track for some reason is way "pointier" with peaks than the rest, I'll surely tame those for consistency.
If I plan on uploading the OST to TH-cam, I do think I should consider mastering it a bit louder, but still won't be as important as a loud master for ambience that stands on it's own rather than being for a game, so I know personally I won't really be making mixing decisions or spectral balance decisions to maximize loudness, but it's interesting to hear about what some artists do for that.
I'm sure there are several other reasons to go for loudness that I don't know about and you could let me know of them if so.
I have no experience with mastering for video games, but I imagine it would also have a lot to do with the content it's being mixed with - if it's, say, a shooter or something you'd be pushing against a lot of loud aggressive sounds, but for example in a game with much more subtle sounds, you could afford to be a lot quieter? I'll do an analysis video of some games/films sometime, I'm very curious what they come out as!
Considering that ambient music is generally listened to over a long time-scale, I'd say its internal dynamics are the most important - mastering it loud means that the listener is locked into that for the whole experience, so you would want to make sure that it's not going to irritate them?
@@holosuitemastering ah yes that makes sense. internal dynamics is something I think I should keep an eye on to make sure that the other sound effects are clearly heard over the ambience (including frequency-specific dynamics I reckon). I would definitely be interested in that analysis video. It really is helpful for people getting into a niche profession to have tailored advice and references to polish their work, to have greater confidence in their craft when they don't currently have connections to more formal systems or other people in the industry to nudge them in the right direction. But at the same time, I still stand to benefit from these videos even if doesn't always fit what I do like a glove (can't fit everyone's gloves) it gives me useful information regardless.
Happy to be of service! I have to say though, and I feel like it's revealed a little bit in the video, ambient doesn't seem to really have the same kind of support structures as other more mainstream genres, so we really are kind of making this up as we go along. Everyone has their own take on it, which is great because we get to write our own story, but also tricky because artists can struggle when they feel like they don't have the guidance that will help push them through technical blocks. A good reason for us to band together, I guess!
There is not much transient in ambient, so it's super easy barely an inconvenience to master super loud.
#notallambient!
-23 to -26 LUFS. One could maybe get away with -18 but it no longer begins to sound like ambient.
Massive headroom is essential for ambient.
The most famous ambient artist? That would be Brian Eno, sir.
Thanks so much for watching! I realise I didn't actually specify in my video that the LUFS I was focusing on was the _short-term_ measurement. I imagine if I looked at the integrated values these tracks would have been closer to the values you've quoted. My intention was to show that music based on sustained tones has very little in the way of microdynamics, and thus can actually be raised quite loud without compromising the fidelity, but of course I'm a noob and didn't think to actually mention that in the video - and I neglected to look at macrodynamics! And good point, I missed a lot of classic artists in here - I was just picking the ones I love and listen to the most - but I will at some point do another of these videos about Eno, Roach, Oliveros, Tangerine Dream, etc - I'm particuarly curious to see whether I can compare the original vinyl to the remasters to see how much louder they are (my guess is a lot!)
Not really, you need headroom for transient, if the track is just pad, you really don't need much headroom.
@@holosuitemastering Funny you mention Oliveros. Two of my go-to references for ambient mixes are always she and Eno.
That said: I quoted those numbers because after agonizing over my first ambient mix a few years ago, (Everything was hovering around the infamous -14 LUFS integrated and sounding awfully crushed with no nuance) I measured some classic ambient recordings and was blown away at how low they were. Once I gave myself permission to go there, my music had the life it needed. Grant it, this is my personal taste as my ambient is REALLY quiet. (I like to force the listener into a state of "Deep Listening" in the style of Oliveros).
For me, it just sounds better with all the headroom. But not all ambient needs to be of course. Some of Eno's later recordings were somewhat higher as they tended to be not as quiet. So perhaps it's the "quiet factor" needed?
Definitely a horses for courses thing! As @olafsigursons mentioned above, dynamics is all about how big the peaks/transients are, so depending on the content of a track, it may not need all that headroom. All you really need to do is make sure that the peaks are just below 0dBFS (or I guess -1dBFS to account for inter-sample peaks). If there anything lower than that, then it's just wasted headroom (and some would argue you might degrade the signal as its quietest parts will be closer to the "noise floor", especially if you're dithering your masters)
Hey! I was wondering, how do you route your audio from Spotify into your DAW? I have no idea how I would do that but I feel like that would be quite insightful at times. Great video! :)
I used the technique as per this video th-cam.com/video/AIv_YxFh6rE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=z0qOBqYi7WN9mKTS&t=325
Note that this is for PC, but if you're on a Mac you could try this method: th-cam.com/video/y_gJRrb1w8I/w-d-xo.htmlsi=3qPcN7BVyqPp-Q2N
It's super useful for referencing - I can see myself even occasionally using it to feed my matching EQ!
@@holosuitemastering Thank you! I'll try that you! :)
Good luck! Let me know if you get stuck!
Hey, this video showed up just in time; I just finished an ambient track!
It's currently sitting at about -15 LUFS, though usually I master higher for my music. It seems to work fine for what it is, though.
I'm surprised that some of these are as loud as they are. -8 LUFS tho??
If it works for the track, go for it! Streaming services will turn it up if they need to anyway. I think what's most surprising about the -8 is that is doesn't sound particularly compressed - just goes to show how far you can push a good mix!
@@holosuitemastering That's true--I wouldn't have known it was that high unless you'd shown it. Thanks for the reply!
I agree. -8 LUFS? Way too crushed. In fact when I listen to ambient music and it’s crushed like that, I just shut it off. The sense of space that is necessary for ambient must be present in the track.
when you are doing game music it's so different tho.. this would be too loud.
Interesting! I imagined that the internal dynamics of game music matter less than its relative volume to the other aspects of the sound design - dialogue, sound effects, etc - but I'm sure I'm missing something there