Fail Night Magic
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ย. 2024
- Previous videos -What Magic Does Better Than Any Other Game: • What Magic: The Gather...
Pointless - Thoughts On The Lack of Rewards In MTG: • MTG - POINTLESS - Thou...
Changes to In-Store Play Events:
magic.wizards.c...
The July 17 Update: magic.wizards.c...
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You Are Worth It: • MTG - You Are Worth It...
Thoughts on Quitting: • Thoughts On Quitting M...
MTG, My Dad, My Little Pony, & Me: • MTG, My Dad, My Little...
Why people who play Magic are AWESOME: • MTG - Here's why peopl...
Here's why parents should be happy that their kids play Magic: The Gathering • MTG - Here's why paren...
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"Vintage Education" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0
creativecommons...
The official announcements can be read here:
Changes to In-Store Play Events:
magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/store-play-evolves-2017-07-16
The July 17 Update: magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/daily-magic-update/update-2017-07-17
While the two previous videos of mine that I reference can be viewed here:
What Magic Does Better Than Any Other Game: th-cam.com/video/TwdCEw8ySCU/w-d-xo.html
Pointless - Thoughts On The Lack of Rewards In MTG: th-cam.com/video/dPXngJ6D-MU/w-d-xo.html
Tolarian Community College thank you so much for speaking out about this issue . I am happy to see content Creators talking about this.
I have strarted a hashtag on Twitter: #FNMREKT
Pease tweet at the wizard mtg acct to let them know we need this changed and how unpopular it will make FNM.
thanks again Prof. much love
Tolarian Community College hey professor great vid but why do you seem so sad? Did anything happen?
hopefully this friday will be my first fnm (I'm playing in the draft, I'm still building my commander deck thanks EDHrec and professor btw the commander is ryhs the exiled) Any tips?
Nice rike and Morty refense
Tolarian Community College I went to my first FNM last week as I begin to play Magic the Gathering. I was actually very pleasantly surprised and happy to receive a foil card for playing and I didnt even have to win and this was amazing on top of the booster I got as well. as I didn't even know that I would get it and I look forward to the next promo, to see what it is, what it's art is. Very much like a mystery, but now to receive a token will be very disappointing due to my getting a bundle and owning all the sets tokens anyway
add, give, invest, do not take away. wise words that essentially sum up the whole video
I am definitely a casual player. Some of the most fun times I've ever had in Magic was playing cafeteria table games against my friends in college who were Pro Tour players and extremely serious about the game. I learned a lot from them: my knowledge of the evolving meta-game and my ability to judge the value of a card came from them. To separate the casual and pro scenes would be to deprive an entire generation of this experience, I do not support that.
Videos like this are why I adore the professor. We're lucky to have his passion and commitment to standing up for the common player's interest
When I went to my first FNM, I had this extremely jank green/black deck that I had built off of opening a couple of Khans of Tarkir fat packs, and like $50 in packs. My best combo was playing a 4/4 and using Kin-Tree Invocation to copy it. I got my ass handed to me.
That being said, I had a great fucking time. I met a lot of awesome people, witnessed a person cheating for the first time, and I was right back the next week with my same collection of cards to get my ass handed to me again. That week a player that had been trying to break into the pro scene and get sponsorship helped me make my first competitive deck. He showed me what mono-blue control was, told me what my win-con was with it briefly, and sent me on my way to learn the deck. I had an amazing time, and it was all because of the players that knew what they were doing, that were kicking my ass.
Then I started to get an idea of what was actually good, built an Abzan deck, and started beating the same people that helped me learn how to play. I went to the Magic Origins Gameday, which the lgs that I went to held at one of their other 2 stores, and represented the store I learned to play in, and I placed 7th out of 60 people running a slight variation of the same Abzan deck I built when I was just learning to play seriously.
I got that foil full art Languish, and even though it was all that I won, I fucking loved that card. It was the first real prize I had won, and I beat some damn good players to get it.
In the same regard, I've cherished EVERY single FNM promo that I've won since, because it reminds me of when I first started playing, and that Origins Gameday where I played in my first decent sized tournament, and then had my name read out in the top 8.
NONE of that would have happened if when I showed up for my first FNM, I didn't get my ass stomped, and didn't meet all of the awesome people that I met, and didn't receive the help and guidance that I received in the weeks after that. If I showed up, and the people that were good just weren't there, I basically would have been sitting around a kitchen table, playing casual Magic, and I probably would not have returned.
Magic: The Gathering is my favorite game I've ever played. It's the only game I've ever played competitively, wanting to win to get my 'trophy', while still having the time of my life in the process. If my 'trophies' turn into double sided foils, and that's the best I can get at any FNMs I attend, then the competitive spirit will be gone, and I might as well sit around a table with friends, have a few beers, and play some Commander.
How old are you?
At the store I used to attend FNM they would put everyone's name in and randomly pick people who would get the FNM promo cards. Could be a long time veteran, could be a little kid. Maybe someone on their first event. I liked that better than just giving them to the people who win the most because it will always be the same group of people who get them, for the most part.
yeah my shop has all the cards upside and how the 1st place goes first and then down the ranking is just which turn you get to choose a card. and if you get a cat card you win a free booster.
I may be the shallow one to admit this, but those old fnm rewards promos were the reason I attended. Once they killed the redemption program, I was done. I received at least one booster for playing in Yu-Gi-Oh for participating, and Pokemon only charged once a month. Magic charged me every week and I would usually get nothing unless I performed well.
Call me shallow, but I liked rewards for me participating and forking 💰 out every week. I'm a person who likes to play games, not a 💰 dispenser that gives wizards 20$ every month for my health.
Yeah this didn’t age well
There's a bit you actually didn't touch on with the June Aether Hub vs January Noose Constrictor example: Summers have always been infamous for lulls in Magic player turnout. Ask any LGS owner and they'll tell you they see marked decreases in attendance to all in-store events over the summer months.
If June Aether Hub attendance was equal to January Noose Constrictor attendance, that would actually mean that Aether Hub as a promo was potentially part of the reason that June FNM attendance equaled January attendance.
There's been a pattern of having all good FNM promos be during summer months, so if they're saying that good promos don't correlate with high attendance, they don't actually have the data to back it up.
That's a good point.
I'd just like to point out that both Blake and Mark have said that the data isn't just June vs. January, but a universal truth they've seen since they've been tracking FNM attendance. Mark also brings up a valid point that if FNM promos had a noticeable impact on FNM attendance from a business perspective removing them would be a very bad move.
Now wait for FATAL PUSH promo, i bet it will be crowded XD
Almost ANY industry sees predictable, measurable ups and downs over the course of a year. It's far better to compare a month's attendance to THAT SAME MONTH in previous years.
In retail, nobody would think of comparing December's numbers to April's. If they're even in the same ballpark you've either had a deadly slump of a holiday season, or your business exploded in new exciting ways in the spring.
Theater movies, restaurants, anything you buy or attend. Even Twitch and TH-cam content producers can chart regular surges and slumps over the course of a year. The more established a product, brand, or industry is, the easier you can predict when the busy and slow times will be. If you aren't prepared (either in advance by doing your research, or through experience doing/making it a few years yourself), it's nobody's fault except your own.
WotC is hardly a new contender in the entertainment industry. They'd see this stuff even if their data analysts were crap at their jobs (which I doubt they are). They just don't want to show us the data because people would poke holes in their "logic" so fast it'd sink like a boat made of sponge.
i'm from outside USA, here to get cards online takes a month, and this is really a misstep since actual 99% of players here going to FNM really need the card not as a promo but as part to complete their set. Doing this will push some players out, and useful uncommon will overprice. In the end players will stop going FNM not because i say so, because most of them say so.
Wizards is protecting their bottom line while offering nothing new and taking something away everyone likes? I'm shocked.
Seeing as we can't see the data, I'm assuming this *wasn't decided by Wizards.*
This screams John Corporate saying "why are we giving away cards?"
Never thought about it that way
To be clear, I mean Hasbro.
I think it's more like "Little kids are sad that they can't win cards so let's not have people win cards anymore so they won't be sad and keep playing and buying cards" much like "Little kids don't like their spells getting countered or lands getting blown up so let's neuter counter spells and land destruction so they'll keep playing and buying cards" and "little kids like playing with big, giant creatures that win games so lets just make big, giant creatures that win games and then make them incredibly rare so they'll keep buying packs until they get them".
Harry BuddhaPalm and Tom White I see both of those points. Anyone remember when you could just pay 2 blue for a counterspell? Not anymore. And good luck opening any good giant creatures. All the common ones are vanilla or die to creatures with 4 power. Trample? Nah, that's a mechanic for rares, mythics, and signpost uncommons.
can still pay 2 blue for counterspell in Pauper ;)
The way to get more casual players at FNM is to make more PAUPER events. This is the best format because really, everyone likes to be competitive, and construct our decks to be the best they can be. What we don't like is having to pay hundreds of dollars for a deck that will rotate. Pauper has the best of both worlds.
Or, ya know, Modern works too. That’s the format at my LGS. It could get expensive, true, but at least it doesn’t rotate out like Standard does.
Yeah.... I honestly think Standard’s rotation is really stupid. Modern leaves the rotation out, and instead just has an age cutoff. Modern is just significantly better because of that difference.
@@AlphaWolf096 The problem with that is that as a new player Starnard is the way to start, Modern is good if you can pay for the decks that are at least 5 times more expensive that Rotation ones.
You know something's going down when the professor appears on the video unshaved.
Also, to compare with a real shift in player attendance: Serum Visions and Path to Exile drew in *tons* of players old and new (granted the Standard environment back then was actually worthwhile), because they were not only good cards, but staples and outright icons of MtG. I had double the normal attendance during those two months.
Aether Hub is a good card, but no Path.
I remember when stores had "too many" promos. My local game store kept those extra on the side. Players that played that didn't place high enough for packs or promos were able to choose a older promo that they still had. My girlfriend at the time had a poor time one Friday but she left feeling like a winner because she was able to pick up a Sheoldred promo.
Oh, you didn't too well sorry, here, we'll give you this consolation promo! Actually, we're out, here just take $30 and buy it yourself.
It is a shame that wizards have an attitude of "This good idea wasn't well implimented so we've scrapped it entirely"
FNM promos underwhelming? get rid of them entirely!
Kevin Troy promo tokens are sweet
nah i already have the zombie tokens from eldritch moon prerelease. they arent that sweet.
Devin Anni There's only so many desirable tokens in magic. Zombies, Spirits, Soldiers, Goblins etc. After awhile they'll either recycle old ones or have to make less desirable tokens such as Servos and Clues
The Bird Wizard agreed
Croc Cobbler fatal push is september yes? but 2 playable promos in a year is too few
very new player here, competitive players make me want to play more tbh. Shows me how much MORE I can improve myself.
yes good job . this is the right mind set.
no nope yes! I had only been taught how to play mono white control by a really good legacy/modern player, and the second I started playing with more people and finding pros I got my ass kicked and found the learning experiences worth it. I would ask people at CK and my college to give me deck building tips and even share info to create lists together.
Now we’re mulling over things like building complicated Commander and 2dh decks and talking about the state of standard and modern; I’m glad I had those experiences and am still learning.
it's pretty disappointing that wizards are eliminating are FNM promos. I remember getting a promo Remand. It was amazing to get a remand different to everyone else's remand. It felt special. tokens don't feel special
And you can make your own tokens. Better ones. I did some Scooby Doo Clue Tokens to use when I Investigate. Dude. I laught every time I use them. No FOIL TOKENS will do that for me.
Ya I always preferred using base set pokemon hologram cards as tokens. It's boss taking out charzard to use as a dragon token.
Jacob Keats The lgs I played had one for the first place, one for the last, and two were randomly given. Anyway FNM in the city I used to play was VERY COMPETITIVE, and was Modern. Needless to say I got utterly destroyed. It came to a point that I knew that either me or a Friend I got lucky to be selected to play against were the last ones. So immediately, as we sat down I said "Hey man, I want to concede." and he said "No way, I know what you are up to, and if we tie, that other dude will get last" so, we had to play one on one to decided who would concede! The winner would lose! It may not have been something exactly legal, but it was a fun experience. My friend won, so he lost. Like he said, the cards bring memories with them. And that fun was amazing. I want promos back but I want us to be optimistic and remember that they said that such changes would be 'experimental'
Marit Lage says hello.
There are other promos to get as well, not just FNM.
I'd rather play some casual multiplayer modern or commander with my friends with banter, food, and a good time guaranteed over bringing my low-tier deck to an fnm or modern event to get stomped by some lilis of the veil, goyfs and merfolks. Competition wouldn't matter if there was a level playing field, but I'm not going to spend $600 on a deck just so I can walk out with an armful of promos and free packs.
Yup
I remember when Serum Visions and Path to Exile were promos! My friends and I all put our EDH decks down, and tried to play for them. Since then, we've stuck to the EDH tables.
TheCurryLanka did the spikes drive you back to edh or the decrease in good fnm promos? (just curious not trying to be mean)
I enjoy competitive games as much as casual games. Playing in FNM was always about getting cool foils for playable cards that I could use.
It was definitely the decrease in good quality promos that made me solely move to EDH. At least we get Fatal Push...
Logan Armes I'm with the OP here. I primarily play Modern and Commander. I simply don't enjoy standard because the types of decks I want to play don't exist there. I want to play a hard control deck with maybe 3 creatures in it at most. On that note, I cannot justify spending $100 on a play set of Torrential Gearhulks that are going to be worth $3 when they rotate. The overwhelming loss of card value upon rotation is what drove me to modern, and the absolute freedom to build whatever I want attracted me to Commander. All that said, the main draw for me to get into standard right now is in fact the Game Day Mastermind play mat. I want it so very much, but not being a standard player, I stand very little chance of actually winning it with only 2 weeks to practice in time for game day.
Long story short, good player rewards (like Serum Visions, Path, or a sweet Bolas playmat) absolutely will attract players from other formats to standard, but it needs to be consistent, or we're just going to go back to the formats we enjoy playing.
My LGS gives out promos to winners of EDH pods. It's actually causing a buzz at the store about what's going to happen in September for the foil Fatal Push. The major meta at my LGS is EDH.
And that's excactly the reason WotC cuts the promos. People shouldn't be playing for the prizes. They should be playing because they like the game and stick to the format the like.
Doesn't your lgs switch between formats?
They should check what's loved by their customers and schedule for them. We have one week modern, one standard and two weeks limited (mostly draft). Of course you can show up with friends and play whatever you want at side-tables. I go to the limited ones - works fine for me and I don't need any promos to lurk me there.
watch the numbers spike when push is the promo
exactly
Yeah then what ? They should print MORE good cards like this, to make people come everytime.
The Only reason that "Fatal push" could be a bad idea to put as a promo easy to obtain is that no Modern player will crack a AER booster box anymore xD And rightfully so. They could change the system of giveaways, but replace it with tokens is retarded...
by the time the push promo hits (sept?) it's likely Aether Revolt will be either winding down/out of print at most LGS ---i know my LGS has been out of BGZ for a long while, SOI/Eld since amonkhet started.
The people who want the push promo. for it being new art, or foil art will seek it out, either through play or buying them. The people who'd be seeking booster packs, or cracking packs for push fishing...prob aren't the same markets
First time a standard event has fired at our local fnm in months...and 16 people show. Hmmm.
TheSklease i gotten 2 fatal pushes from the promos and I've only been playing for a month.
What? Competitive players discourage beginners?
Not the excessive single prices, the lack of playable commons and uncommons, the crappiness of beginner-level products like Planeswalker decks, the uselessness of 90% of mechanics that Wizards present (Allies, Landfall, Delirium, Servos, etc.), the brokeness of many rares and mythic rares to the point of Standard bannings...
That's not discouraging - it's the fault of players that play these decks, not Wizards? That's crazy. Keep losing players to Hearthstone and Pokemon, I guess.
Szymon Koziarski i think wizard is looking for a scape goat to save face at the point. i agree with you.
Landfall and Delirium are great mechanics you take that back!
The only time competitive players discourage beginners is when they win too much. But that's only really been the case at one shop around where I live. Generally the competitive players go around to a few different shops so the regulars have some different faces. They're pretty nice like that.
As far as Aether Hub goes, I know nationally it was seen as a good card, but locally people thought it wasn't worth going after. Most of the people that won them traded them back to the store for credit because they didn't see them as worth keeping for more than a month or two. It's still a mediocre to crap level card for them (and I completely understand why).
I don't go to FNM because most of the tournaments are NOT newbie friendly or welcoming to women in general
Yeah, let's bring women into this, cause nothing shouts equality more than a double side foil token!
I just have never thought that promos are what bring players out to FNM, a really good standard with lots of viable decks, or really cool new cards is what brings players out.
Maybe wizards real logic is new players don't know what promos are and will show up either way, and more competitive players will not be as attracted without the promos. Wizards saves money by not printing promos, and new players dont get their asses handed back to them as badly.
We have a disclaimer for new players at our LGS:
1. Prepare to spend your money
2. You will get your ass handed to you...
3. You will spend more money.
4. You may, with some luck and effort, eventually hand everyone their asses and win.
5. See rule 1-3
Getting your ass handed to you is part of "learning" the game. We've all been on the receiving end. Can't rise unless we fall. Competition or playing against competitive players probably taught me the most and made me a better MTG player.
Yeah, good cards/set or the people playing are what brings folks I know out to play. Promos are just gravy. Tokens are a joke.
Agreed. I am OCD in making sure that if my decks require tokens or emblems, I have all the proper ones. I even bring extra high use tokens to loan to my opponents so I do not have to look at coins, scratch paper tokens, or 2/2 scribbled on a common with a sharpie....YOU KNOW YOUR DECK....GET THE DAMN TOKENS YOU NEED!!!!
That said, I can give a damn about foil tokens...and I am a Foil-Head that can't run a deck without lands worth more than the rest of my deck.
Give me playable promos...or man up Hasbro/WOTC and just say "Thanks for your patronage, fuck you very much"
I love notifications that inform me of important things.
Like when the Prof uploads a new video
Eravar The Slayer I know, right? Informative! xD I never won a promo or had one handed out to me as a random prize, so I have no idea on what to think about the changes
You're ridiculously good at what you do. How it is that Wizards hasn't made you a VP of something is beyond me...
As a competitive player, I feel that wizards does not want me at FNM. Wizards is trying to divide its community so much into three tiers and not wanting them to mingle: Casual, Competitive, and Pro. This FNM stuff happening as well as the data crackdown just deepens the division. Wizards wants FNM to be just for Casual and that will leave it in a bubble. I love playing FNM and playing against more experienced players helps me tune my play style and deck. It's so frustrating that wizards wants to divide us.
Wizards' decisions didn't create that disparity. Competitive players treating casuals like trash did. You divided yourself. I know it's convenient to blame the company, but they aren't at these events and they don't create the atmosphere.
Clutch Situation Some competitive player treat casuals like trash, yes. However, most in-store competitive players have a very Johnny/Casual edge. Wanting to win, does mean not being nice.
As a casual mtg player, I feel that I learn more each time I go to FNM and play against competitive players. Separating the community is not a good idea because it will create more animosity in the community.
Clutch Situation I've played Magic since Betrayers of Kamigawa, and for the 12 years I've played, I've barely seen hostility towards new players at any of the 30+ shops I've played at. The only real hostility is when a newer player gets frustrated with their lack of skill or well positioned deck and takes it out on the better player, or "Competitive" player.
This argument that Pro players treat newcomers like trash is just false.
I was sold collections for cheap, given free cards and helped along with rulings during Lorowyn standard by all players, even the ones who went to GPs and other events.
I don't see the hostility anywhere around the places I stay.
There might be a few "Competitive" players that are hostile, but if you're in the middle of a tournament trying to win important prizes, you kind of want to stay focused and not converse gleefully with your newer opponent.
Just thought I would put this here :)
Jack Cramer in my country there is only one place to play magic, we tried to play the game in other new place, and then the "competitive players" came they wanted double promos and double points and treated new players like shit, so people stopped coming. At the end it was playing with those assholes or nothing, it was nothing, I love the professor and his ideas but this time I disagree with him.
Wizards need a dedicated social media Director or Supervisor and if they already have one they need to do a better job. Because it's evident WotC does not know how to promote properly past a set trailer. The added bonus would be setting a better communication network with between them and the players.
I agree. I think they should not make decisions that are so polarizing or that players don't agree with. Did they conduct a survey to get the pulse of players about Promo cards? If, no... why? They change a lot of things at the same time and expect to see positive results just right at the gate (like one month later)... and when the results are not what they expected they cannot know what are exactly the causes... is it too much bannings? Is it quality of promos? Is it because we reversed back to two years rotation? Is it because people don't like the mecahnics of the current standard sets? Is it because we put more products than before in the schedule? Is it because players play less during summer than winter? Is it because the economy affect how much money they can put in Magic products?, etc.
They have atleast one, she uses a block bot, lives in a positivity bubble and doesnt listen to criticism, completely defeating the purpose
Wizard's is trying to bring in the casual player and the new player into FNM, but i dont want to play standard! and while some stores have modern and whatever, what im saying is that i dont want to spend $200 + each set for a new deck.
I agree too that standard is kind of expensive for the rotation speed but they can't realy extend the 2 years ish of life span and its their only real money maker. They don't make any money from modern or older formats. Sure they release master sets, but its far from enough to sustain them. Its hard to see how that could change.
Winning a foil Fatal Push, or Path to Exile would help you with that ;)
to be fair if ur spending that much every rotation then ur doing it wrong
It's not that expensive if you do it right.
thats pretty much what i just said..
That last bit about the cards holding precious memories hit the feels. I appreciate you being frank and sharing thoughts and feelings I'm sure many others have.
Prof - I love how you keep it 100 (regardless if WotC will like it or not). You speak for he people and we all love you!!!!
That's my job, and I take it very seriously.
The last bit about your Phyrexian Metamorph promo made me tear up a bit. I've gone through a lot in this game: a few breakups, struggles in identity, but one thing is clear, when I went to FNM, I had people there who embraced me, who made me forget about all of the negativity, and who gave me very memorable experiences. The promos are like snapshots in time, cards you obtain during prerelease. I put them all into my commander decks so that every time I pull one out, I can recollect, and make new memories.
Thank you for making this video, thank you for helping me justify this game. I hope wizards retracts this decision so I can make more memories
Does anyone else think Wizards should hire the profesor as their chief of public relations? How cool would that be! Like literally put him in charge of all announcements, have him be the voice of the community. They talk to him and he relays to wizards what he sees and hears. make him magics figure head.
That wouldn't actually change decisions like this, and at the same time would hobble what makes the Professor, the Professor.
We'd lose Prof and gain nothing in return, as a community.
Zomburai45 fair enough, maybe they Hasbro should just make him the head of WOTC.
I recently started Magic and went to a few FNM, never really been in the store play environment, slammed time and time again by infinite combos by nearly every player....really takes the fun out of "build your deck, the way you like" and makes it more" build the most used decks that everyone else uses as well, and have no semblance of originality or imagination" haven't been back since...
Learning more how this game has slipped into profits driven decisions, and the shady back end practices to influence the secondary market, leaves a bad taste in my mouth...
That's what scares me the most about wanting to attend a FNM, how fun is it getting beat by carbon copy decks left and right. Luckily I've got a group of 6-7 buddies that turn it down a notch and just do kitchen table play at home. I hope you didn't quit the game due to the poor experience at FNM.
not even full art lands??? come on wizards seriously can you not kick us when we are down
Right in the balls too.
Foil Guay land will be cost more then foil full art, ~5-10$ at least
I love my lands, but as he said, once you've finished with these ones... What's next?
1:30 The deadpan delivery for this one phrase is beautiful
Wizards has been doing tons of market research and surveys lately, and I'm worried they've drawn the conclusion that what is keeping Magic from growing is...Magic players.
If you're feeling like prizing is getting worse in Magic, you're right. I know many retailers are intentionally flattening their prize pools to promote more casual play via discouraging rewards for competitive play. Most are NOT giving out less prizes, but are making prizing less top-heavy. Wizards, it seems, is following suit.
Frankly, I agree with them. Magic attracts competitive "nerds" and when you mix a competitive streak with a lifetime of not-quite-fitting-in you've got some real unaware jerks filling seats at FNM.
But...we know all that already. Magic is successful because of these guys, not in spite of them. And they don't deserve to be spurned like this from Wizards themselves. Yes, I agree hyper-competitive play discourages new players, but the hyper-competitive players deserve love too, same as anyone!
There needs to be a weekly event specifically for these hyper-competitive players, acknowledged and supported by Wizards. Remove "Planeswalker Points" from other events and double (or even triple) them for this one - that will further discourage "spiking" casual events while rewarding them for this. Make the event heavily focused on "going pro". Make a national leaderboard as part of your "Magic Digital Next" program (whatever that is). And yes, give out promos of valuable and staple cards. Tie this into your new "seasonal play" direction and give out end-of-season prizes that just blow people's socks off (say alt-art promo Blood Moons, Crucible of Worlds, Snapcaster Mages, Force of Will, etc).
Prof, that was an outstanding argument put with honesty and real feeling for our game. Have an imaginary standing ovation!
My store is small so we don't have to worry about competing for promos, at least on the first week. So this is just a net negative even with their explanations.
I stopped playing magic last year but I still watch professor's videos. I have no desire of coming back to the game hearing announcements like this...
*SHOW US WHAT YOU GOT*
I love it!
Everytime I watch a video about these types of things, it makes me appreciate my LGS more and more.
I have been going, on and off, for 22 years to the same location. Anytime I have been a part of FNM, the store gives out its own product (as well as any promos) to participants. Never walked away empty handed. Always had fun.
Last FNM I got a free booster of Weatherlight and a NM Revised Ed Kudzu. I know it's only $0.50 card, but i like it.
Had I known Aether Hub was the June promo, I'd have tried to go to a couple FNM days to try and get one via trading/gift (because I don't play Standard). They should keep Promos and expand the rank of player that gets them, like instead of top 5 in the tournament getting promos it could be top 10 or all. That way competitive players still come and casuals can come and still get promos that they want
Emerald Games Our store just gives them to each tournament attendant no matter if you go 5-0 or 0-5
Emerald Games I think stores are allowed to decide for themselves how promos are distributed. My local store is really small, so every single player in attendance at FNM gets the promo regardless of placement.
my store has a pretty decent Ayer base so not every1 gets one cuz they run a standard and draft tourney at fnm modern on the first Friday of the month instead of standard and both tourneys get promos for winners ^.^
Our LGS gives the current promo to the top 2, then distributes "random" promos from previous months to the remaining participants. Someone got an Aether Hub at the first July FNM. :)
If everyone gets a special promo, it's no longer special now is it? I say we wait and see. Once we see it's bad, we confirm it and start the real rant.
"Add, give, invest. Do not take away" Best line
A great video as always prof! Show us what you got!
"Competition is what DRIVES players" I don't think anyone could have said it better. Listen to this man WOTC.
As a new player the top finishers getting promos was what kept me coming back, competing, and working my way to the top 5 or 6 to get those promos. That was why I competed, it was the goal.
This is crazy! I am new at playing MTG and if it were not for great players that have been in competitions and play Standard or Modern and really know there stuff, I would never have learned a thing. We have a fabulous mix on FNM which consists of 7 year old kids, High Schoolers, College and beyond. Usually we get a mix of goodies to choose from each time. Foil full art lands, special d4 dice, cards to play. Gosh, when I first played there we got a card and a booster pack. Tokens are so boring, even for someone new like me. They get into the game, they quickly get killed off. I like having a variety of promo choices. The strangest thing is that on #FNM our more experienced players want to play Commander, Bang and Planechase. Not Standard or Modern. They want to unwind and just have fun and socialize. Not compete. They want to try out new Commander decks they have created to see how good or bad it is. Promo stuff...Full Foil Lands, good cards from previous sets, Modern staples, dice, etc. Do I go for the promos? No, but I do like prize for showing up and then chatting it over with the other players.
your final monologue brings tear to my eye.
I have no doubt this will be reversed in a year, content creators will congratulate WOTC on listening to its player, and stores will have suffered even more than they already are for in store attendance.
"Our secret data & numbers proves we're right, but you're not allowed to see those numbers."
Lol, I almost forgot we were discussing Wizards, I've heard this excuse repeated by Riot Games so many times. It truly does seem to be a popular lie for large companies to go to, to justify intentionally-bad decisions. They're all the same.
My LGS always gave the FNM promos to everyone who showed up. Is this not what's happening everywhere? It's a really small store and they always have enough for everyone, and even have many, many extras by the point the specific promo no longer is being given out.
I don't get it, are they NOT going to be giving FNM people the promo Fatal Push they were promising for months now?
That is not common.
darkchiron That's not something that is very common and it's not really supposed to happen. That being said my LGS does the same thing for most FNM promos because we also have a fairly low attendance and in general the promos are not highly valuable. But if you have a place that has 25 or more people at FNM, and I know a place locally that almost always has more than that, then just giving away the promos means that not every one will get one.
The Fatal Push promo should still be going out as that is the promo for August, I believe, and they have said that starting in October it will be tokens.
Good news on the Fatal Pushes, then. Like the Professor said, they REALLY need to advertise that more. I think people would love to have some.
Also, I kind of misunderstood I think regarding how people were saying promos were handed out at most stores. It sounded like "Well you got to Top 4 to get one of these", but it's more like "You gotta be in the top 20-ish people"? My LGS has like 10-16 people most FNMs so I understand there's less people to worry about.
darkchiron I'm not entirely sure on the "top X" that you have to be in. It is mostly dependent on how many of the promo cards WotC sends to the store, though some stores may also just decide to do it differently. The format that you play in is also a main factor in it. At my LGS we do EDH so you get a promo for winning a game, but I'm sure for standard or modern brackets they do "top X"
My lgs usually do that, since there's always so few people who showup for FNM. But that changed during Aetherhub month where competitive players who I've never seen at my lgs before, turned up to snipe these limited promos away from us regulars. Wizards probably caught wind of situations like these.
Prof, I really appreciate your response videos. I can tell you're an English major, because your arguements are always fleshed out and have solid facts to support them. It's a shame you're not teaching anymore, because I would love to have you as a teacher.
Hasbro/Wizards listen to Nickleback
"Look at this fo-il" 😂
So do I.
Lmao
Good video prof. Add this to the long list of bewildering decisions wizards has made over the last couple years.... Only to stumble around trying to undo it a few months later.
How did we ever get new art Path to Exile and Serum Visions for Promos? I want to meet the person who snuck that by the people making these decisions and shake their hand.
I know right!? I have two of those path to exiles, and a set of those serum visions that I now use in my Grixis Death Shadow deck.
greenlantern1986 they had balls. darksteel balls.
I remember my first FNM promo. I actually got it kind of recently. It was the first time I drafted in store by the suggestion of a friend who also moved away. Hordeling Outburst. I may not use it, but I remember that night and the draft. It's what convinced me to pick back up MTG after dropping it several years before.
#MyFirstPromo was a searing spear that I got during Return to Ravnica standard. It was my third Friday Night Magic, and being a new player, it was such an amazing feeling to win a card that not everyone had.
I don't know what we would do without you, Prof
This burgundy suit is lit af.
MMmmmhmm....velvet...
I went to a store where whoever played was able to roll dice and get a chance to get the new promo card or an older promo/standard card, the top 2 players that won the actual magic tournament got 3 boosters each. This to me was brilliant as it gave everyone a fair chance at the promos.
Goodness, you hit it out of the park with this video Prof. I agree with much of what you said here, and you brought up a bunch of points I hadn't considered, for instance their points about promos too good/promos too bad conflicting with one another. Tokens are cool, but not incentive for me to attend FNM. What we need is a regular, perhaps Thursday night or Sunday morning event for newbie players/home brewers. I would love to attend something like that as an intermediary stage between what I do now, Kitchen Table play with friends at home, and attending FNM. In my city the events I have always wanted to attend as a casual/newer player have been prereleases and events specified for new players. Whenever anything is advertised as 'being new is okay', or 'there will be people to help new players', that makes me feel not so daunted. Competitive nature of FNM isn't a problem, less avenues to get casuals from the kitchen table and into the stores IS. Promos were great, I can think of many cards that are staples in Modern which also are good in other formats like Commander, or some even in Pauper. Instead of focusing on Standard, which shifts so quickly, focus on formats that change more slowly for promos.
I think the root of the problem about this isn't even that they are removing promos. The problem is they don't seem to be using data, they don't reveal their data which is dodgy and strange, they don't communicate, they don't seem to have an accurate read of what their players want or what players motivations are. Their decisions lately seem very strange, very reactive rather than planned, which makes players feel uneasy. It's like they swing wildly in any direction rather than taking in the info, from many sources, thinking slowly and carefully, consulting with people and making a sensible, reasoned decision, and outlining using clear communication why this is happening to players. Wizards has a serious communication issue, and possibly a decision-making/hastiness issue too. The lack of transparency with data is... weird, it's just weird. What are they afraid of?
All I can say for now is that I am an heretic. I no longer believe their gospel and they lost my faith.
Love the dark magician look, because you're a light bringer. It's awesome.
Tokens!? I would rather have a weekly dice or even add a random foil rare within the latest set like in pre release.
I have the same attachment to my four leatherback baloth WPN foils, i got them when i was a greenhorn. i still have them and i love them so!
I have to agree with Wizards' decision. Having just started on this game and attending a few weeks worth of FNM I was blown away by the cost players were spending on a deck for FNM. If you want to homebrew a deck or try out a gimmick deck you can't. The meta decks will show up and stomp those that just want to have fun and try new things. It is a competitive game but I think that players, in all games, have gotten used to getting something and have forgotten that it is a game for fun. People are too serious on FNM and those players ruin it for the new players that show up and haven't spent over $300 on a Torrential Gearhulk control deck. In summary I feel as though Wizards made the right move to cater to all players.
Amen!
This is my suggestion:
Foil token or something similar for all FNM attendees.
Players can take the useful rotational participation card or choose to pass on the participation card for promo credits a player can cash in promo credits for a tiered rotation promo cards. This was people can get playsets or save up for the uber promo. I think It would keep people coming. Most MTG players are collectors. Let us collect and choose what we want and can use.
Wouldn't giving every player a foil promo (non-token) get more people down to the local game shop?
Sean H it would and it matches the definition of Promotional Material better but spikes and competitive players complain it's not special or worth alot (when the ones we have now aren't worth alot anyway so meh) as a casual player I refuse to pay 8$ to go to fnm with my brew and lose to a 300$ standard deck I can't afford and get NOTHING out of it. so to me nothing has changed it wasn't worth it before and still isn't worth it now. not to mention these last couple of standard environments have been the worst since cawblade (which was the last time we had standard bannings). so this won't actually effect the casual player because most casual players (if any) don't go to spiky stores.
If you're consistently losing to $300 dollar standard decks, why don't you invest in your own? It isn't WOTC's fault that you're to ignorant to switch decks
Joey Flint, Magic might not be a $300 hobby for some people.
Woodthorn sure that's completely fine. But if they recognize the fact that they're losing cause they're building shit decks and losing to real ones, they shouldn't be blaming anyone except themselves.
It's possible to have different tiers of play. Casual decks tend to be on a different level than competitive decks. Making the lower tiers compete against the higher tiers is a pretty sure way to make people bummed out.
I heavy agree with your say in this. This video states a good point about quality promos bringing all sorts of players to get an amazing Memory or a new trade for whatever they want
I was just going to start FNM soon, this isn't helping. A foil token isn't worth the hour drive to my LGS on Fridays, gathering some friends and playing just for fun at home is easier. A promo will always be special, I've only received ONE promo from my LGS and I cherish it. I won't even forget when I got it and how.
Favorite quote “I remember them..in my mind” lol. I totally agree with you , as a player and former store owner, fnm quality foils have the best ROI for wizards.
The “data” cannot encompass just attendance over a relative short period of time. If player impact is measured on limited data sets, the results will fail to reflect the heart of fnm success. Acting on this data will endanger long term loyalty.
To be honest, I’m surprise that decision of this magnitude are not brought to the community first for feedback.
My humble opinion
As a commander player with some mental issues that make me want my lands to match I hate the foil promo lands. I know I am in the minority but this will grind on me. I hate they are constantly doing dumb things to upset the larger community as well.
I will express my point of view since I think it is a ver particular one. I live 20 miles from the nearest shop where I can play magic. I used to play EXTREMELY casual with just one friend when I was 12 or so. He stopped playing and I kept buying magic for the sake of the art because i really love the cards and the feel to it. Two years ago, I met a guy in college who play magic and told me about this store that it's fairly close to my university. I played dragons of Tarkir prerelease and I even got to win a prize. That got me into magic again. In Argentina, standard isn't very popular, and FNM is mostly played in the modern format, so I came across your videos prof, and TMS's too, and build the mono red burn deck so I could start attending and playing. Spellskite ruined my every second match, every single one of them. So I looked for ways to improve my deck, and saw the money that I had to invest to play. The prices here, for singles and for sealed products, is twice that the one in the USA or more, so I kept playing magic, but just drafts or prereleases. After a while of playing, I got a couple of friends interested and went to this place to play drafts mostly, I repeat, nearly 20 miles from where I live. But then I got into commander because of one of your videos, and bought mind seize in a trip to Miami thanks to you. Got my friends interested in EDH, and now, my playgroup consist of 8 persons playing commander just to have fun. Not gonna lie, all of us invested quite a money in all of our decks, but for fun not for grinding over a prize. If you are still reading I wished I wasn't THAT painful to read, but with all of this said, in my experience and opinion, if they want to draw us to play at FNM or any other competitive tournament, they should give prizes that really matter, like a doubling season promo, a crucible of worlds promo, textless promo cards, or cards useable in all the formats so that all kind of players have a reason to play. This is another WotC decision that keeps keeping me away from stores and more into EDH with friends. I hope they realized it's bad decision and turn back on it, just like masterpieces on every set or eliminating core sets for reprints like (I REPEAT) crucible of worlds and doubling season. (I want to finish my Omnath deck and I ain't paying 160 dollars for just to cards, just to clear all doubts.)
That's just my two cents on the issue, keep the good work professor, you are one of the reasons I open TH-cam almost every day.
I just realized that apparently according to your interpretation (or maybe even quote from them) they do not want competetive players to play FNM... What about the welcoming atmosphere? Are competetive players bad or something that needs to be separated from the casuals? Oo
In many areas they are. Neckbearded man-children that chase away anyone who they don't want in their special clubby.
Clutch Situation I see your comments on a few responses and it's people like you that drive a false narrative of all or most competitive players being rude, fat neckbeards who hate new players.
As I stated before, this is far from the case.
You must have been wronged by one at some point and took on a crusade to devalue these type of competitive players as a whole.
Stop it. Get some help :)
Then again there are also those spikes who try to win by playing well/being creative and love to help out new players and try to have fun with everyone aswell. Only because there are a few assholes, you can't single out the entire group of players. Those assholes are among new players aswell, hell, even among the casual players...
sAlatji _ I've often found its the casuals that are the biggest asshole s.
competitive players can take a loss and normally don't care too much about fnm. if they go at all its to test a deck or have a laugh. most would happily teach new 8 year old Jimmy and help him out .
I mean... when your modern deck is worth 2 grand then a foil aether hub isn't worth much. hell... u used to give mine away to new players...
+SAlatji You have a well-balanced mind, which is great.
As to answer your above question, based on hearing numerous stories second-hand, and a few of my own experiences, the "competitive" crowd falls under two big categories: the have-fun try-hards and the value-seeking assholes.
People who strive to give good experiences fall under the try-hard category. They love the game and want to be the best (like no one ever was, etc.), and want to help everyone play their best as well (I fall under this category). They may also be rogue deckbuilders, trying to better their deckbuilding skills by playing something unconventional and going for gold.
People who give bad experiences fall under the asshole banner. These players play to win, either for fame (make that infamy) or for more packs and value. However, they play solely to win, and often cheat to do so; if they don't win they throw a tantrum. They also copy Pro Tour decks to a T, just to be able to play a deck with known success; they don't play the game for the game, the play for the money.
As you mentioned, you can't single out an entire group based on the actions of a few, and I'm sure there are loads of exceptions to the rule, but based on multiple accounts from different people, these two broad categories emerge.
Usually, depending on the LGS and how much the store owners care, one of these two groups will be dominant at an LGS. As such people will almost exclusively have either bad experiences or good experiences, hence the polarity between people who like competitive and people who despise competitive.
There really isn't a fix for player's attitude, but WotC's attitude of "these players are bad so we don't want them here" is also painting with a broad brush, and very divisive. It goes against WotC's own goal of being a game inclusive to everyone, so I'm really not happy with their approach to this problem.
I don't understand how this video received a single dislike. Well put and thank you Tolarian CC
Maybe to get newer players to their LGSs WotC should make better bigginers products? The issue I'm seeing is that new players dont have a deck that with some luck can win them few games. They get trampled by all the netdeckers. Make good standard precons - even wizards said that planeswalker decks are not ment to play FNM with. How a new player can now aboute all the neuances of deckbuilding? For their first deck someone needs to do it for them. Give new players something like an event deck. Full deck with sideboard, with theme and some power.I think thats the correct way.
But then all the players who know the game will buy them for the powerful cards then jack up the prices based off what cards are in there. On top of that if you don't they still can't compete at a FNM event.
Very fair critique professor, you articulated exactly what I had a hard time with
i hope they hear us and reverse this soon
Really liked the story about your first win. I started playing during scars, got hooked in phyrexia!
~6:45 "I don't think it'll even make one year" Now, a year later, they are back to promos
A video of extreme quality, capturing every important aspect of the problematic, could think of. Very good job, Professor !
Modern FNM = Modern Foil Promo and Standard Boosters.
Standard FNM = Standard Foil Promo, Showdown Packs and Foil Token.
There we go. Fixed.
What about people like me that only play EDH, because that's where the real MTG is?
You guys get Sol Rings
So do Vintage and Legacy players. We also get the original dual lands. The Dark. Fallen Empires. Homelands. Not our fault we get to use pretty much everything from the entire 25 year history of Magic. Maybe we like to foil out our decks.
I'm pretty sure he was saying that would be our promo, not that sol ring is in our format, haha
As someone who has never won an FNM, the promos were the carrot on the stick for improvement. I liked seeing peoples binders full of trophies.
@9:45 - 10:45 Wow. You could make a whole video about that lower third. That's nuts. Wizards, get your social media game going!
This video was outstanding.
I dearly hope wizards sees it. I just went to this weekend's prerelease and pretty much lost every game.
I consider myself casual, but I do not consider myself discouraged at all. I am better for losing. Don't get good players out of the store, please.
Also, which is the better promo? Aether Hub or Noose Constrictor..? I'm sorry neither of those are that terribly interesting... Now fatal push... Compare the data on that FNM..
When I first started playing magic with my friends at FNM, there was one deck that was a modern comp deck that would beat us every time. We didn't even know what modern was at the time. But we didn't give up at all. We learned to use removal and synergy to gain a fighting chance. And every time we lost, it felt great because we knew we made progress and we knew we would eventually win a game.
Oh wow Prof seems actually kind of annoyed! Rare. Understandable. It makes very little sense. And, as usual, their communication is ... well... not particularly communicative.
but competition IS fun :) I'm casual, not upset about them removing it, but nnoyed at them saying it will help casual players attend more. it won't.
Perfectly stated professor, your argument seems rock solid. Wizards must have some crazy info to guide their actions, in any case the info should be shared
I understand your perspective, but I actually support WOTC on this decision. FNM has become way too competitive for me to enjoy it. I've not attended in months because I got tired of playing against the same tier 1 decks. I want to play against other creative players, not competitive players. Lizards vs. Cats! Humans vs. Insects! Wurms vs. Constructs! Let's make it interesting, eh?
Jared Manning I understand your point, but bear in mind the tournament is PAY TO ENTER.Why enter an obviously COMPETITIVE tourney and run yourself outta munny if you’re not getting shit out of it?
Yeah, have fun getting wrecked by competitive, extremely high-tier decks when you can't even play the game. I learned that the hard way lmao
11:00 you showed us and we're impressed. I think its awesome that you put out these constructive criticism videos. well played sir
i could not agree more about fnm promos. i stopped going to fnm because of the terrible promos. i stuck to constructed formats. as soon as I heard about fatal push I decided to go to every fnm that month. i was so happy good fnm programs are back. i am casual and i dont care about tokens. i will not go to fnm for tokens. i love magic and play several days a week, but fnm needs an incentive to get me to go after a long hard week of work.
Brian Batey they lost me because modern is a cluster fuck and every set after eldrich moon is so god awful the only thing left is edh so i only buy singles and dont do any events or turniments at all
Indeed. I must say that Hour of Devastation is a very good set for EDH. So many good cards for it. Good Commanders as well.
I stopped attending sanctioned events when they removed the Magic Player Rewards program. I now just play in Limited format events but only because of my love for Sealed Deck and Draft. Standard, Modern, Legacy and Vintage were all formats I used to play in when given the opportunity and I pushed myself into more and more events because it meant I would be REWARDED for giving my money and my time to a game I was fond of.
They just announced they're bringing FNM promo cards back!
You're the most well spoken person on TH-cam.
WOTC should do something similar to Pokemon's League. The League Promos are giving for assistance, at least that's how it is in my LCD.
BRYAN J ORTIZ-SERRANO Pokemon is played in MUCH MUCH greater numbers in my LGS
It's always fun listening to your opinions professor, and I do very much agree with you. In my opinion it's also important not just that the promo be a "quality" card but that said promo have a special and unique artwork. For example, the promo you shared with us, marking your Phyrexian Metamorph displays what is, in my opinion a gorgeous artwork. I personally, ignoring what Phyrexian Metamorph does entirely would head down to my LGS and play, merely to get that gorgeous artwork. Welp, fun listen. Thanks, prof.
I'd be happy if FNM went from a tournament style setup to just being open play. People show up, give them their promo, anyone can play anyone for the duration. I hate going to FNM and playing against the same deck (with maybe minor variations) three times in a row. Competitive players still get the opportunity to tune and practice their deck against other competitive players, and maybe the oddball deck or two. You get the opportunity for more games (finished your 3 rounds in 20 minutes? go find a new opponent, don't have to sit around for 40 minutes waiting for that control/tempo match up to end), and you get to choose your opponents, which means you can ensure you get to play your friends, or play against that one guy who everyone knows is really good so you can get that valuable learning experience playing against a much better opponent than yourself. Yes, I'd much prefer open play for FNM, if wizards wants to bring the kitchen table magic players to the store offer an experience that is more akin to kitchen table magic, and less like a weekly tournament. It's a competitive game, but there are plenty of us out here that would rather spend our time making odd ball decks and seeing how they match up against other people with weird or fun decks than making an oddball deck and playing against gray merchant 3 times in a row (this happened to me, big part of the reason I stopped playing magic for 2 years). Competition can help drive the game, but at a certain point when competition becomes so fierce and you only see people playing minor variations on the same 3 decks that won the last protour it becomes boring and monotonous.
Professor once again you are the voice of reason. I really miss (but understand why) the full art textless cards. When they were available I didn't have the funds to play, I was a filthy casual that got to splurge once a month to go to a sealed (usually 2 headed giant) fnm. Sealed as it got me cards and at almost the price of buying them outright. I didn't get many textless promos and the ones I did I ended up selling so that I could play in more events (I now look back and understand why I did but still wish I didn't sell them off especially given I got rid of some of the more expensive ones to be able to play in a draft side event at a pre release.) Now I'm older and have disposable income but also a toddler, so time takes me away from all fnm. I get the schedule from my preferred store and pick which days I don't have to work forced overtime and formats I prefer to play. Forcing us to play standard for a promo version of cards we can buy in packs... well I've done the math. If my lgs put 2 prize packs into a draft (they do 1.5 packs,) a box of cards including prize support is about the same as buying a box and doing my own draft. Oh wait. That would take money away from my lgs... they may close and I wouldn't be able to play at events... is this what they want?
Well said
I remember back in the days when I played FNM and would take home foil Damnation or Cryptic Command… those were some nice prize. And I didn’t even notice the “competitive players” issue. We were just a bunch of friend meeting up together to have some MTG fun.
I love Magic, but try as I might I cannot seem to win very often. I don't mean Top 8 either, I mean like I'll go 1-3 before cut off. It seem to be at least in my situation that those who have the money to net deck the Baltimore Tourney just win. There is no variation and with the money I have and the cards I get from the box I buy I just cannot find any fun in playing at FNM's. Maybe it's just me, but it's too expensive even in the short term to build a competitive deck in standard.
Michael Hay there are cheap standard decks online. Buy from TCG player.com and you can use some cards you already have. You can buy boxes or just buy the cards you need. In the end you might pay around the same.
Idk when Rick and Morty references became commonplace in MTG content but I am loving it