This was a very helpful video and gives me some encouragement as I am considering PRP for my chronic back pain. I have 2 herniated discs, one at L3-L4 and one at L4-L5 and the pain is pretty much constant and can get very intense (up to a 9 or 10 level). I even have an annulus fissure/tear in the one disc. The pain is all on the left side of the spine and causes those muscles along the spin to get tight and inflamed once in a while. I have been doing PT, acupuncture, and deep tissue massages, but nothing seems to help. I am probably going to try this procedure in 2 to 3 weeks. I assume something like this isn't covered by insurance, but it sounds like it could be beneficial and have me avoid another surgery, such as a hemilaminectomy. I already had an MIS discectomy, which did not help at all.
I'm sorry to hear you are going through that. You may be a really great candidate for epidural or intradiscal PRP. If the pain is coming from that annular fissure, then one of those two approaches is crucial to provide relief. If you seek out a doctor to treat you with PRP, don't settle for them just doing facet and ligament injections. You need to get PRP either around or within the disc
@@DrewTimmermansND Thanks for your response. Unfortunately, I had to delay the PRP due to having COVID this past month. I was wondering if I should get a facet joint or epidural injection being that the pain is one sided. Also, I forgot to mention that, just like you, the pain gets more intense the longer I sit and especially if my back is up against a chair. Walking and movement does help a little, but the pain is always there. I have started doing softwave therapy and had a little relief, and it seems that combining that with PRP will help me heal and recover faster. If PRP/softwave does not help, the next option would be DiscSeel. Again, I am hoping to avoid spinal fusion or any surgery. I will keep you posted.
@@DrewTimmermansND Just a quick update and clarification. The intense pain I am currently experiencing is at the L2/L3 level, where I have a slight disc bulge with thecal sac indentation and where I did not have surgery. Based on your experience, have you found that PRP helped your patients with these types of conditions? Also, I confirmed with my doctor that I will be receiving intradiscal PRP injections at L2/L3, L3/L4, and L4/L5.
Specific protocols of PRP can help to delay the progression of cartilage damage in joints with arthritis. Specific protocols of bone marrow stem cell therapy can do the same to a stronger degree, and in some patients with mild forms of arthritis, there can be cartilage regeneration to a degree
Hi @DrewTrimmers My dr was not able to go upto the ligament but was able to inject the prp in the near by areas so as not to damage the nerve near the ligament. Will this help in the actual ligament healing ?
I'm not sure as I don't know enough about your case. But in general, if the ligament needs healing, the injection needs to be put into the ligament not just near it
Results are not as good as prp, but is often more cost effective. We currently don't use it in our practice but I've been keeping an eye on the research
I have an l4-l5 asymmetric left-sided annular tear with a possible tiny left protrusion. I am 21 and have had pain for 10 months and just got prp and prolotherapy done last week around the disc not in it. The pain I get is bilateral femoral nerve pain when sitting or standing for long periods. Wondering in your professional opinion if PRP and prolo were the right move and if you've seen it reduce/get rid of people's nerve pain. And also what your outlook on my case would be?! I would come to you clinic but i live in Canada :)
Sorry, can't say if it was the right move for you or not as I haven't done my full medical workup on you. Also no idea what your outlook would be, for the same reason as above.
I had prp 2days ago for stage 1/2 anterolisthesis L4L5 and main symptom is left leg sciatica. He took out over 50cc of my blood and used double spin system. He showed me picture first spin yellow and 2nd red and was told this is normal. Now wonder about this bc right after back buttocks and and left sciatica worst. Getting bit better and overall worst than prior to the procedure. Wonder if I will still have some efficacy to relieve the left leg sciatica symptoms. Seems not right it’s red bc likely rbc there and causing the unnecessary pain/inflammation.
What you just described sounds like thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars how is a normal person supposed to afford what you just described multiple injuries multiple injections?
Unfortunately, not everyone can afford PRP injections, especially as they are not covered by insurance. Many of our patients reprioritize their finances because they would rather get rid of their chronic pain than go on a vacation, or buy a new car, or waste thousands of dollars per year on consumerism. Everyone has their own approach, but again like I said, unfortunately not everyone can afford it.
Great information. Thanks for being honest about your experience. I'm personally facing a work place injury. The insurance company has been kicking the can down the road for over a year (since last treatment). Where is a good place to start if I wanted to get some information regarding our of pocket cost? Settlement offers are starting to arise and I'm trying to decide wether or not to put my treatment back into my court. Just for reference I have a disc herniation at L5/S1 (shocker, I know) and some narrowing at the facet. I have been denied SI joint injections and currently only taking gabapentin to deal with the pain. Any lead(s) would be greatly appreciated. Not opposed to traveling outside of the United States to have this done. Thank you
Thankfully it's covered by health insurance here in Ireland, €100 excess so not too bad. I had it done recently for a bursitis and torn hamstring and doing rehab now so fingers crossed it works
@@DrewTimmermansND this is a little disingenuous … PRP, stem cell therapy is thousands of dollars at one time for one session, and people usually need multiple sessions or injections over a period of one year could equal $12k-20k a year ….. Not doable for most people. I was looking at getting it done to my elbow here in Chicago and it was over 4,000 for one session paid in full up front expense
No idea. I don't have a crystal ball, so I can't predict how many anyone would need. We start with one injection and then we assess response and see what we need to do next, if anything.
Drew, you have gaps in your knowledge about prolo/PRP and the msk. When I have time I’ll explain c-fibers (our prior exchange) and why PRP as you call it, works (with proper technique and protocols). I want to take my time explaining without being too wordy, so be patient. I’ve got a lot on my plate at this time of year.
Manipal hospital, Max hospital and many other big hospitals delhi mumbai and other major cities in India does this by pain management doctors,neurologists majorly.. You can contact them..❤🎉
I had my first PRP injection on 11th costotransverse ligament in back and prolotherapy done in the adjoining areas. I have pain in twisting towards left (pain along the obliques and back). How long would it take to see results ?
@@DrewTimmermansND Thanks. I do see some improvement but the pain is not completely gone. Its been almost 3.5 weeks. Hoping for the best in the coming 3 weeks.
Hello, I am 27 years old and have a tfcc wrist injury. I first treated it with cortisone injections and wrist immobility and it worked immediately (3 weeks). Then it started to hurt again after 5 months. Now I am trying with PRP three injections. After 4 weeks I am still in pain and see no improvement. Do you recommend that I use steroids again?
I'm sorry to hear you're going through this. Unfortunately as you aren't my patient I can't advise you on the best approach to take. If you would like to work with me, please reach out to my clinic regenerativeperformance.com
I deadlift, and I've had a herniation. Not everyone can get back to deadlifting or squatting after herniations, but it's our goal to help people get back to doing that if they wish though regenerative injections, physical therapy, and peptides
Here's the problem though - the results that we speak of are not seen at all other clinics. In fact, using the registry we are apart of, I can see that the pain improvements in our patients are 20-25% better than the average regen clinic in the US, and our functional improvements are almost 40% better at the one year mark. Our approaches are special, and while there are other clinics out there like us, we don't really make referrals unless we personally know a clinic is just as unique as us. All that being said, I don't have any trusted clinics in Florida.
I’m having chronic tightness and stiffness in my mid back. Nothing gets rid of it. I had prp over a yr ago on a knee and it helped a bit. Cold plunge is my best tool. As far as herniated disc I’d get a microdiectomy. I had 1 on my neck c5/c6. Basically if your rupture a disc you have material that pushes out and literally fuses or adheres to the actual spine like glue. Having that material pushing on the spine whether painful or not is disrupting signals from brain to body and long term can cause serous issues. Also give up heavy lifting. It’s totally fkn pointless. You can lift light higher reps and better form. As long axis muscle is being pushed without stressing spine. It’s such fake vanity bs or tough guy nonsense. Listen to your body. It’s doing more harm than good to slightly build more muscle mass. I invented the 1st wheel on a foam roller. Check it out. Have a good 1
As far as my surgery C5/C6 I did PT for 12 yrs with no relief from numbness in my arm and chronic shoulder pain. Prp didn’t fix it as it was severe on my mri. Search Dr Tony Mork and watch vids about toxic annular tears. That’s the issue beyond just material on nerve. He did a full endoscopic washout on me and cleaned disc fragments. That’s the goal. That disc needed to be cleaned out.
I would argue that even fixing the biomechanical cause doesn't guarantee permanent fix, as the tissues that were originally weakened are still prone to new injuries and pain. There are so many individual layers to this including overall health status, biomechanical, psychosocial, etc. I love your input, and we're always working with patients to get them with the right PT/strength coach to correct the underlying biomechanical cause
LOL sorry you're wrong. I just got updated mri results after my intradiscal injections 18 months ago and the 2 herniations are significantly smaller. Your view is too pessimistic. Not a good way to go through life
This was a very helpful video and gives me some encouragement as I am considering PRP for my chronic back pain. I have 2 herniated discs, one at L3-L4 and one at L4-L5 and the pain is pretty much constant and can get very intense (up to a 9 or 10 level). I even have an annulus fissure/tear in the one disc. The pain is all on the left side of the spine and causes those muscles along the spin to get tight and inflamed once in a while. I have been doing PT, acupuncture, and deep tissue massages, but nothing seems to help. I am probably going to try this procedure in 2 to 3 weeks. I assume something like this isn't covered by insurance, but it sounds like it could be beneficial and have me avoid another surgery, such as a hemilaminectomy. I already had an MIS discectomy, which did not help at all.
I'm sorry to hear you are going through that. You may be a really great candidate for epidural or intradiscal PRP. If the pain is coming from that annular fissure, then one of those two approaches is crucial to provide relief. If you seek out a doctor to treat you with PRP, don't settle for them just doing facet and ligament injections. You need to get PRP either around or within the disc
@@DrewTimmermansND Thanks for your response. Unfortunately, I had to delay the PRP due to having COVID this past month. I was wondering if I should get a facet joint or epidural injection being that the pain is one sided. Also, I forgot to mention that, just like you, the pain gets more intense the longer I sit and especially if my back is up against a chair. Walking and movement does help a little, but the pain is always there. I have started doing softwave therapy and had a little relief, and it seems that combining that with PRP will help me heal and recover faster. If PRP/softwave does not help, the next option would be DiscSeel. Again, I am hoping to avoid spinal fusion or any surgery. I will keep you posted.
@@DrewTimmermansND Just a quick update and clarification. The intense pain I am currently experiencing is at the L2/L3 level, where I have a slight disc bulge with thecal sac indentation and where I did not have surgery. Based on your experience, have you found that PRP helped your patients with these types of conditions? Also, I confirmed with my doctor that I will be receiving intradiscal PRP injections at L2/L3, L3/L4, and L4/L5.
Drew u an OG PRP big dawg smoke gang
Do any of the therapys you described regenerate damaged cartilage in joints from arthritis?
Specific protocols of PRP can help to delay the progression of cartilage damage in joints with arthritis.
Specific protocols of bone marrow stem cell therapy can do the same to a stronger degree, and in some patients with mild forms of arthritis, there can be cartilage regeneration to a degree
Hi @DrewTrimmers
My dr was not able to go upto the ligament but was able to inject the prp in the near by areas so as not to damage the nerve near the ligament. Will this help in the actual ligament healing ?
I'm not sure as I don't know enough about your case. But in general, if the ligament needs healing, the injection needs to be put into the ligament not just near it
How much did this cost you? Glad you’re doing great.
What about focus shockwaves therapy
Results are not as good as prp, but is often more cost effective. We currently don't use it in our practice but I've been keeping an eye on the research
I have an l4-l5 asymmetric left-sided annular tear with a possible tiny left protrusion. I am 21 and have had pain for 10 months and just got prp and prolotherapy done last week around the disc not in it. The pain I get is bilateral femoral nerve pain when sitting or standing for long periods. Wondering in your professional opinion if PRP and prolo were the right move and if you've seen it reduce/get rid of people's nerve pain. And also what your outlook on my case would be?! I would come to you clinic but i live in Canada :)
Sorry, can't say if it was the right move for you or not as I haven't done my full medical workup on you.
Also no idea what your outlook would be, for the same reason as above.
What clinic in oregon do you recommend
I had prp 2days ago for stage 1/2 anterolisthesis L4L5 and main symptom is left leg sciatica. He took out over 50cc of my blood and used double spin system. He showed me picture first spin yellow and 2nd red and was told this is normal. Now wonder about this bc right after back buttocks and and left sciatica worst. Getting bit better and overall worst than prior to the procedure. Wonder if I will still have some efficacy to relieve the left leg sciatica symptoms. Seems not right it’s red bc likely rbc there and causing the unnecessary pain/inflammation.
Unfortunately without doing to processing and the procedure myself I can't comment on your outcomes. I hope you heal well!
What you just described sounds like thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars how is a normal person supposed to afford what you just described multiple injuries multiple injections?
Unfortunately, not everyone can afford PRP injections, especially as they are not covered by insurance. Many of our patients reprioritize their finances because they would rather get rid of their chronic pain than go on a vacation, or buy a new car, or waste thousands of dollars per year on consumerism. Everyone has their own approach, but again like I said, unfortunately not everyone can afford it.
Great information. Thanks for being honest about your experience. I'm personally facing a work place injury. The insurance company has been kicking the can down the road for over a year (since last treatment). Where is a good place to start if I wanted to get some information regarding our of pocket cost? Settlement offers are starting to arise and I'm trying to decide wether or not to put my treatment back into my court.
Just for reference I have a disc herniation at L5/S1 (shocker, I know) and some narrowing at the facet. I have been denied SI joint injections and currently only taking gabapentin to deal with the pain.
Any lead(s) would be greatly appreciated. Not opposed to traveling outside of the United States to have this done.
Thank you
Thankfully it's covered by health insurance here in Ireland, €100 excess so not too bad. I had it done recently for a bursitis and torn hamstring and doing rehab now so fingers crossed it works
@@DrewTimmermansND this is a little disingenuous … PRP, stem cell therapy is thousands of dollars at one time for one session, and people usually need multiple sessions or injections over a period of one year could equal $12k-20k a year ….. Not doable for most people. I was looking at getting it done to my elbow here in Chicago and it was over 4,000 for one session paid in full up front expense
How many PRP treatments would you say I need for a disc bulge ? 3 ? Thanks
No idea. I don't have a crystal ball, so I can't predict how many anyone would need.
We start with one injection and then we assess response and see what we need to do next, if anything.
Drew, you have gaps in your knowledge about prolo/PRP and the msk. When I have time I’ll explain c-fibers (our prior exchange) and why PRP as you call it, works (with proper technique and protocols). I want to take my time explaining without being too wordy, so be patient. I’ve got a lot on my plate at this time of year.
Anyone know of somewhere in asia that does these injections please?
Desperate for help
Manipal hospital, Max hospital and many other big hospitals delhi mumbai and other major cities in India does this by pain management doctors,neurologists majorly.. You can contact them..❤🎉
I had my first PRP injection on 11th costotransverse ligament in back and prolotherapy done in the adjoining areas. I have pain in twisting towards left (pain along the obliques and back). How long would it take to see results ?
Most patients notice the improvements of PRP around 3-4 weeks
@@DrewTimmermansND Thanks. I do see some improvement but the pain is not completely gone. Its been almost 3.5 weeks. Hoping for the best in the coming 3 weeks.
Hello, I am 27 years old and have a tfcc wrist injury. I first treated it with cortisone injections and wrist immobility and it worked immediately (3 weeks). Then it started to hurt again after 5 months. Now I am trying with PRP three injections. After 4 weeks I am still in pain and see no improvement. Do you recommend that I use steroids again?
I'm sorry to hear you're going through this. Unfortunately as you aren't my patient I can't advise you on the best approach to take. If you would like to work with me, please reach out to my clinic regenerativeperformance.com
Even if they wear off, these regenerative avenues need to be prioritized. The alternatives are pretty bad.
Agreed!!
What a story my goodness
Trick is... DO NOT deadlft ever again post Lower back disc herniation.
I deadlift, and I've had a herniation.
Not everyone can get back to deadlifting or squatting after herniations, but it's our goal to help people get back to doing that if they wish though regenerative injections, physical therapy, and peptides
Interesting...
Yea, know anybody in NE Florida…we all can’t come out to you
Here's the problem though - the results that we speak of are not seen at all other clinics. In fact, using the registry we are apart of, I can see that the pain improvements in our patients are 20-25% better than the average regen clinic in the US, and our functional improvements are almost 40% better at the one year mark.
Our approaches are special, and while there are other clinics out there like us, we don't really make referrals unless we personally know a clinic is just as unique as us.
All that being said, I don't have any trusted clinics in Florida.
I’m having chronic tightness and stiffness in my mid back. Nothing gets rid of it.
I had prp over a yr ago on a knee and it helped a bit. Cold plunge is my best tool.
As far as herniated disc I’d get a microdiectomy. I had 1 on my neck c5/c6.
Basically if your rupture a disc you have material that pushes out and literally fuses or adheres to the actual spine like glue. Having that material pushing on the spine whether painful or not is disrupting signals from brain to body and long term can cause serous issues.
Also give up heavy lifting. It’s totally fkn pointless. You can lift light higher reps and better form. As long axis muscle is being pushed without stressing spine. It’s such fake vanity bs or tough guy nonsense. Listen to your body. It’s doing more harm than good to slightly build more muscle mass.
I invented the 1st wheel on a foam roller. Check it out. Have a good 1
As far as my surgery C5/C6 I did PT for 12 yrs with no relief from numbness in my arm and chronic shoulder pain. Prp didn’t fix it as it was severe on my mri.
Search Dr Tony Mork and watch vids about toxic annular tears. That’s the issue beyond just material on nerve. He did a full endoscopic washout on me and cleaned disc fragments.
That’s the goal. That disc needed to be cleaned out.
I.e., not permanent if you don't fix the bio mechanical cause.
I would argue that even fixing the biomechanical cause doesn't guarantee permanent fix, as the tissues that were originally weakened are still prone to new injuries and pain. There are so many individual layers to this including overall health status, biomechanical, psychosocial, etc. I love your input, and we're always working with patients to get them with the right PT/strength coach to correct the underlying biomechanical cause
Sir u will eventually need surgery
LOL sorry you're wrong.
I just got updated mri results after my intradiscal injections 18 months ago and the 2 herniations are significantly smaller.
Your view is too pessimistic. Not a good way to go through life