Zadie Smith Interview: On Shame, Rage and Writing
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 เม.ย. 2018
- “Writing is all shame.” Zadie Smith - often referred to as “the superstar of British literature” - here talks about how shame can be used to “propel you on to something,” and why one must try to understand where people’s rage is coming from.
On the subject of ‘shame’, Smith feels that there is a positive element to it, as being shameless is very dangerous: “In America, our president at the moment is a shameless person.” She finds that shame can even be productive and that writing is an entirely shameful practice: “Who are you to write 400 pages about anything? Why should anybody have to read them? Every moment of it is shameful.” In continuation of this, revisiting your early work isn’t an easy thing for her: “It always feels quite distant, partly because when you’re writing it’s such an obsessive thing, and then when you’re done it’s like pushing something out of your body you don’t want to be involved with anymore.” Moreover, as “writing is wonderfully solitary” and many writers are quite introvert, it is the act of performing that prevents them from excelling in other things that they may be good at: “I think writing gives the most possibility of improvement. I was never going to be Stevie Wonder, no matter how hard I tried, but with writing you can get better.”
Smith argues that it is important to try to understand how the rage of the right-wing increased during the eight years, where they were the ones with a president they couldn’t relate to: “I think you have to think of emotions as real even when they’re extremely alien to you.” Rather than being overwhelmed with anger at extreme opinions, one must try to conceive of it: “I feel the rage, but my rage matching their rage is pointless. I think it’s more interesting to think about what it is about white people that find the idea of any collectivity that excludes them so upsetting.” Smith finds that insecurity, jealousy and “a kind of vanity that you should always be included in all things” are at the root of this rage. But it’s okay if things aren’t necessarily about you: “Why do you turn that moment of mystery, where you’re not sure what’s going on, immediately into rage?”
Zadie Smith (b. 1975) is a British novelist, essayist and short story writer. She is the author of the critically praised novels ‘White Teeth’ (2000), ‘The Autograph Man’ (2002), ‘On Beauty’ (2005), ‘NW’ (2012) and ‘Swing Time’ (2016). Smith is the recipient of prestigious awards such as the Whitbread First Novel Award and the Guardian First Book Award for ‘White Teeth’, ‘Granta’s Best of Young British Novelists’ (2003 and 2013), ‘Welt-Literaturpreis’ (2016) and the ‘Langston Hughes Medal’ (2017). She lives in New York City.
Zadie Smith was interviewed by Synne Rifbjerg in August 2017 in connection with the Louisiana Literature festival in Denmark.
Camera: Klaus Elmer Edited by: Klaus Elmer Produced by: Marc-Christoph Wagner Copyright: Louisiana Channel, Louisiana Museum of Modern Art, 2018
Supported by Nordea-fonden
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Wise, self-aware woman. Always a pleasure, listening to Zadie Smith wax poetic about the culture.
Yes, she's great! She's often very funny too. Not surprised her brother is a stand-up. She was great on BBC radio's Desert Island Discs a couple of years ago.
avastyer she is, I agree. I'll have to watch that interview!
@@vaughnjames397 Stupid, self-unaware person. A fourth class writer but a first-class idiot
@@peterkelnerxd7009 I'm sure you're very proud of yourself for this retort.
I just hear pedestrian insights that any of my own personal friends could articulate. It's quite boring to me. I'd like to hear some discussion about how she crafted a particular story. She never gets into that in her interviews --- the interviews are always about this soft armchair psychology/sociology stuff.
It really hit me when she said that writing is a shameful process, specifically "Who are you to write 400 pages? Why should anybody read them?" I remember being made to feel this way as a kid, and it produces a feeling of inadequacy that never quite goes away, but at least is useful in checking my ego. I think shame is both useful and debilitating.
The most stupid line ever said about writing hit you hard ???
@@peterkelnerxd7009 Would you kindly keep your negativity to yourself? If not, go to Hell
@@mmmTheMuffinMan it's not negativity, it's a fact. Learn the difference, you imbecile
@@peterkelnerxd7009 Fuck off
As an artist, I have experienced this response to making art. Yet the act of making it gives me joy as well.
I love this womans mind..I love her writing...she instinctively knows how to verbalise and question wisely what we are as humans
th-cam.com/video/JPnfl2tmDuI/w-d-xo.html.
So do I. She has so much insight
The “flesh bucket” analogy was astonishingly insightful. Around 15:25. It explains so much about self mutilation, mentally and physically that some people don’t even realize they might be doing to themselves.
Wow that was really great. Opened up some theories and observations I hadn't thought of, being from a younger generation than her and added some more context to ones I was already thinking. What a brilliant, humble, enrapturing mind and being. Would love so much more more minutes of this
I drove Zadie Smith through the snow on the Jersey Turnpike (from Swarthmore College back to NYC) about one week after Hurricane Sandy. We had conversation, and then she fell asleep, tired not only from her lecture, but from being pregnant and living on the 50th floor of a highrise with no working elevator! Praise God for her humanity; she is a peacemaker. Only from good Christian ministers have I also heard that shame is necessary and can produce something positive, especially when one receives forgiveness from the Lord Jesus! Likewise, "shameless" seems like an apt description of the present U. S. President.
Zadie Smith you should write a book on your prospective of young people and how they think, because your analysis of our generations thought process was very interesting.
Her collection of short stories features a story like this. I highly recommend
Also, her essays in Changing My Mind and Feel Free are really worth it, she explores lots of ideas like this.
I love how honest this woman is...truly very inspiring!🙏🏾
No, she's not
@@peterkelnerxd7009here you are, getting freaked out again by a brilliant, beautiful, spectacularly successful black woman. Suffer.
Such interesting insight at the end where she talks about young female writers' material these days! The relationship with the body, the difficulty of making sense of what previous generations considered a given... A spot on assessment of these particularities of our times which I relate to strangely. Just discovered her work and am glad to be going down this rabbit hole.
'Writing is wonderfully solitary' beautifully put.
I think she refers to Sally Rooney’s Conversation with Friends in particular when she talks about the pinching of the flesh part!! Zadie Smith is a work of genius!
I had the same thought. I think you are right, that she is talking about Sally Rooney. I haven't read that novel but the way she described it made me think of Sally Rooney.
Zadie never ceases to amaze me.
wow. i agree with her. i have tried to describe my understandings of shame and pride in the same way and it often goes over people's heads. thank you for verbalizing this and affirming my understandings.
I found what she said about the writing of young authors today interesting. Many of their characters really do suppress their emotions in strange ways rather than verbalizing it.
tai that's exactly what I found most interesting in this video, and the way she spoke of writing. It's seriously HONEST and True and it's interesting that is is true. I never noticed it and it's not something we can run away from because it's true.... It has me thinking now. .
I love that she quoted Foster Wallace, I found her because he mentioned her in an interview. I'm currently reading White Teeth and came here for insight, she's incredible ❤
Great honesty... If you are not aware of your own shame. She's right. It drives you to improve. Its called self awareness... Awareness of your humanity...
Thank you, thank you for this interview and introducing me to Ms. Zadie Smith, it has indeed been a pleasure.
th-cam.com/video/JPnfl2tmDuI/w-d-xo.html
Complete overview of Zadie Smith. :)
White Teeth amazed me. I recommend reading her first novel if you like this 8nterviewm
@@v.c.webster9250 okay
I like her very much and I'm always searching for her interviews that include writing tips 😌🙌
I love her point of view 👌😘💙💜
th-cam.com/video/JPnfl2tmDuI/w-d-xo.html
U can watch this.. it's a complete overview.
Salman Rushdie's novel "Shame" is about what Zadie Smith refers to here as the "productive" side of shame, and the destruction that befalls a nation whose leadership has become utterly incapable of feeling shame.
The leadership is always chosen by the people
White teeth stirred me,I thought mine and my family life growing up and was unique ,this book mirrored our house ,the parallels scared me ,we felt guilt for not acting Islamic ,after reading this i freed that guilt,a great role model for my daughter
God the Holy Spirit wanted to enrich my day by having me listen to this interview with Zadie Smith. Bravo!
What do you do once your virtual life ends? You don't know what to do with your body. Man! I learnt more here than in my literature class. She is so intelligent and captivating.
What a very smart, observant and articulate person she is. I wonder what book she was talking about reading from the younger generation. I think it was Sally Rooney.
insightful, eloquent, and wonderful.
shame is a useful quality to have as a human...we need it...keeps us human
It keeps us from becoming unbearable humans, haha
All this time has passed.
56 years
And now .......
Suddenly
I am PROUD of my shame .
How glorious to re-listen to this. But as to I-gen and z-gen, they are now the dominant gen in any MFA program I know, and certainly in the one I teach in. They love writing long form and certainly they read novels. I think the joy of writing novels is what will prevail. Writers read, and there's no shortage of writers.
She’s so spot on !!!
This interview and comment section has really just opened my eyes to just how much we all hate ourselves lol. Pride is really just confidence in one's achievements and a sense of self worth, which I'm sure is commonly misunderstood as ARROGANCE, which are 2 totally different things. When I see highly successful and PROUD people that genuinely love themselves and are not afraid to show it, the crowd immediately goes to tearing them down and accusing them of being self righteous and ... "arrogant". Shame is destruction of a human's sense of self and what they're good at. Not all who would become "shameless" would be evil people running rampant. Those would be ...psychopaths. I do not believe that any given person without the heavy burden of SHAME would be a "dangerous" person to society. But then again that's just my opinion, but maybe I expect more out of people than most others do
There are two words that are often misused and misplaced and they are shame and pity. [I am aware that Zadie Smith is in no way confused] I see shame as having done something that is wrong; as in detrimental to one's life or that of others. And pity is considerably softer - such as a missed opportunity. Also, to acknowledge and feel shame and guilt are of value only when we learn from what we feel ashamed and guilty of. In that way we take responsibility for our life all the while being aware of the the effect we have on others and ultimately the interconnectedness. To beat ourselves up for our shame and guilt serves no one, particularly ourselves; that only carries the poison. It is a cowardly stance. To take 100% responsibility for our actions and reactions requires courage and wisdom; that's where guilt and shame can have a positive purpose or function. In fact, I go as far as to say that that is exactly how we can transform our past. Life, and history, are not written in stone. Our very thoughts, words and deeds are what create our destiny. This is soft power; the paradigm shift that is on the rise. The future is now !
Thanks for your thoughtful comment!
Love her interviews and books! She is such an interesting, intelligent, strong woman!
Thoughtful, decent people hesitate and think aloud in this way. She seems to me an honest, self aware, human being.
listening to her thoughts is so enriching... i´m still quite young and she embodies some of my biggest aspirations.
i also love how laughter sometimes seems to just burst out of her uncontrollably (and also at rather dark topics, which is great)
I pity your pathetic existence when you find this nonsense "enriching"
The younger generation's books are characterized by a sense of detachment from their bodies -that's a consequence of the ubiquitous writing advice, "show, don't tell," given as soon as you share your first lines of writing. Personally, I have reservations about this approach, as I believe there is greater fulfillment, both as a reader and a writer, in articulating the emotions we grapple with. Isn't writing about finding the right words to navigate the complexities of our inner worlds?
Love this, and her.
what a beautiful light
What an amazing woman!
I love her writing and her natural style.
Brilliant!
1:47-2:22 Here in the U.S., I was removed from a gifted/advanced class after writing a paper about the Arawak Indians (Taino) who were the Natives in Jamaica prior to the arrival of African Slaves Even now, there is misconception about why Jamaicans identify as West Indians. Additionally, due to the fact that many Jamaicans have multi-ethnic backgrounds, they do not claim different nationalities, instead, they identify as Jamaicans as the motto explains 'Out of many, one people"
why were you removed from it ? this sounds like a stupid question to ask but i think i'd benefit from hearing
I was never told why they selected me for this particular accelerated/gifted class (near the library) or why they had me return to my normal schedule after writing the report about the Arawaks in elementary school
in Trinidad, west indies a similar saying" all of we is one"
Jamaicans are called West-Indians because Columbus mistakenly thought he had found India when he arrived in the Caribbean.
West India is the stupid name Columbus gave the whole region’s peoples because he got lost. They are just identifying from their peoples time in a place with that name. I have no idea how you ‘identify’ when you’ve been denied knowledge about where you really come from.
I respect her a lot
🇲🇱📓🌍🌎🌏....Divine musings....Zadie self confidence continually inspire young men & women to draw contours off this progressive map....possibilities exist to enhance the Novel ushering in some multi-genre structure / formThanks for sharing 📓🌺🌏🌎🌍📚🇲🇱
Can pride bring confidence, pride in our ppl or country, seeing others from your diaspora doing well , giving you the confidence to pursue whatever it is you want to do.
Amazing!
Haha I had the same thought. I think you are right that she was talking about Sally Rooney.
"Flesh bucket" is a new word I will now use forever.
Rebecca samelol
One of the Great Souls of our time.
15:00 interesting take about the body in contemporary literature
Enjoyed this talk. I am SO OLD...SWING TIME....(dipping in again). We all have to be prepared to LEARN...cross cultural .
Amazed
My favorite living writer.
Outstanding. Genuine insight. The Lost Left.
Wow, brilliant
I loved "White Teeth" and plan to read the rest of her books, Paul Grant. She is an excellent writer.
hilarious book
It was hilarious, Paul Grant. The wife who became forever maddened by her husband sending their son away from them that she never answered one of his questions directly again and the vanities of her husband had me in stitches. But this book also slapped me across the face a few times. When the kids went on the charity mission to the hideous old racist man, and he made the comment that included the title, it was jarring. She also tackles some heady philosophical questions, like the morality of killing someone evil.
This is incredible that a Netflix show like Black Lighting made me discover this very interesting person .
I find this interview very interesting 😸
Thanks!
The OB Dream Corp brought me here, and I'm really rather happy.
White teeth is still my favorite book.
beautiful mind, heart, woman
Anyone know the name of the 22 yr old author Zadie is reffering to?
Does anyone know which book or author Zadie talks about between 15:18-15:40 ? Reminded me of Sally Rooney’s novels there but I’m not too sure if Zadie is referring to her specifically.
It's got to be Sally Rooney. I remember the narrator in Conversations with Friends doing exactly what she mentions. I would be curious what other books by young women authors she has enjoyed.
Yes
"Writing is all shame. It's a shameful practice. Who are you to write 400 pages about anything. Why should anybody have to read them?" I feel ashamed right now, writing in this small text box.
She's the first person I've heard take the mask off the right and discuss the shame they must have felt in the face of Barack Obama. It's astounding to think how there was half of the country who spent 8 years furious under his presidency. But if you look at the left at this moment in time, it's the same feeling we have for Donald Trump. Until we see ourselves in them, we're doomed to be manipulated by trolls, websites, data & shame masquerading as burning swastikas.
#ZadieSmith #MAGA
Obama, the guy who bombed many countries and killed over 500.000 people ???
💜💜💜💜
I wonder why im being recommeded a video on Shame, Rage D; D; AGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHHHHHHHHHHH
Now I know where Jadie Smith's beauty comes from.
who? who is Jadie Smith?
She’s so fucking smart, it would have been wild to have her and DFW in the same room.
Being shameless is very liberating and yet you have to be very responsible about it. Interesting dicotiomy.
I've never read any of Zadie's works but do feel the idea of shame can amplify depth of engagement in expression .But passion of depth can also create imbalance to the structure of what the writer is trying to express .
I really like Zadie Smith, but I think to think about people primarily in terms of race is not the primary way to build bridges. Not that I think she believes that, just a thought that came to me. The only way through is to look inward and to regard each person you meet as an individual with their own unique complexity - their own world and to try and understand that world.
3:36-4:02 I would say that shame is more so discussed in Catholicism and the Jewish faith more so than the Christian faith
Judaism has a concept called Teshuvah
It means returning to the path or to Gd and a specific prescription for making amends and penance
Vibrissa Tuft Would you equate that with shame?
Well the verg beginning of the interview had me wondering...
We used to say History is theirs whose language is Sun, additionally education can help uplift a man's stature, if you're poor education is your sword and pend is mightier than the sword
Well I had me wondering is it the art of writing we refer to or the art itself
Throughout the history those who produced art be it any form have had their stature uplifted.
Previously it was writing as it could be preserved for generations but not audio and what was being said (ignoring visual arts as there is very specific audience that understands it, so difficult to reach there)
But now that we can have speech preserved for longer than ever and shared easily
Even if you know how to put your emotions and thoughts to words you can be recognised and heard by millions of people just like books were read earlier. (Since after the invention of Printing machines)
What I'm doing is dumping my thoughts here.
Anyways point is Art is education. To be completely educated among another things art is a must. And a holistically educated person is one who uplifts themselves.
Dump completed.
new generation, higher consciousness souls
The Young always like to think that, yes... I know *I* did! Laugh
gregorylent oødefaf på trommer og stepper
"worst is, when we forget, to keep up with our evolution and the "wonders" of everyday life "
No danger of that happening if we aren't fully invested in deluding ourselves that *WE* are the "wonders", eh? But Advertizing works so hard to make us narcissists with its incessant and hollow flattery...
DISCOGOTHTHEJAZZFAN and you were onto something, then maybe give it away to be in a survival mindset
No, kid, I grew up and stopped being a sucker for the ugly nonsense that Consumer Culture was seducing me with. They rely on younger, naive demographics to buy their disposable crap. Resist Narcisso-Consumerism by maturing.
The American publishing industry seems to lack this so called shame that you so elegantly speak of. As an industry art and literature appear to have been commodified conveniently down into simple products to be bought and sold.
Hasn't she confused humility and humiliation?
interesting lady this
Here's a deep dive into the infamous "Hysterical Realism" review by James Wood in which he savaged Zadie Smith and others:
rauldukeblog.wordpress.com/2018/01/04/lets-talk-about-all-the-jews-t-s-eliot-didnt-hate-some-notes-on-the-literary-inquisitions-of-james-wood/
The opposite of pride is not shame; It's humility. I believe what she is saying but I think her choice of words is not accurate.
Her words are accurate. She's a top level professional writer.
Interesting argument
I'll never understand the class system in England.
Why do people who interview authors ask such stupid questions? What is shame? And she doesn't even answer the question. Instead, she answers the question "what is the impact of shame"?
It’s not white people as it is individuals within the ethnicity of Caucasians that are selfish and harmful people.
Complexion doesn’t mean a thing, some people, in fact most people are socially unaware and ignorant of others.
This was a really interesting interview tho, hard to find out about these beautiful thinkers these days, usually some actor or other celebrity speaking on how important they are and their twisted views a PR person asked them to say.
Nice to see someone producing important works for culture speak out about different situations, thoughts and issues in the world.
What book by a 22-year-old is she referencing?
She's a storyteller, not a psychologist.
Why on earth isn't she at Twitter or Facebook? I want to talk to her. @devereuxmatthew
she doesn't want to talk to you. she wants you to buy her books.
@@MaximTendu How do you know she doesn't want to talk to me, max?
@@matthewdevereux1288 even being the démodé cismale i happen to be, i've got the gut instinct of a woman.
@@MaximTendu Ok fair enough. I would still like to ask her a question even if she would blank me off with silence like Rachel Carson's "Silent Spring"
@@matthewdevereux1288 Women call it "the silent treatment", and we let them think we don't like it.
Dear Zadie Smith, I have always had the feeling that you defend freedom and that you support those in need. Today I would like to ask you to say some sentences in public demanding the release of Julian Assange. Assange has been fighting for free information and bringing war crimes to the eyes of the public. He is a journalist and helps all of us the understand what´s going on. Thus reducing wars and the possibilities of successful `war lies´.
Thank you for your understanding and all the best.
Michael Haas
Impressed. You can tell the interviewer wanted to turn the topic into a whining game about society, but Smith turns around and says it's valuable. That's courageous thinking. Smith is remarkably strong for admitting she has flaws and not excusing them.
She literally just asked "what is shame?" Chill dude...
wow...speaking confidently about being shameful.
Speaking very stupidly. She only said nonsense
I took no pleasure in presidents Reagan and Bush, but felt no need to attack the capital and spend years bitching about being alienated. But then I don't feel entitled to have a first family that reflects me.
It's upsetting bc it forces them to consider the fact that they have been lied to for their entire life
On identity - survival demands all races dissociate from the herd. Its instinctive, we see it in the lower animals so we can be forgiven. We call 'our own' anything that looks, feeds, dances, feels [we hope] like us. Except this here woman has more in common with George Elliot than near well anyone on the continent of Africa. This is a major source of shame* - the suspicion that one has failed to check at least some of the boxes.
She was great in Peep Show
She wasn’t in peep show?
Is Zadie Smith a Christian?
Zadie's "friendships" with old male writers is very humorous to imagine. She isn't the first person that comes to mind when discussing the life and work of Phillip Roth. Zadie is always pretentious, interesting, annoying, funny, (without trying to be) and endlessly entertaining to watch on TH-cam.
Said a man who most likely finds all intellectually advanced women “pretentious” and “annoying.”
I admire the fact that Zadie made the observation about how some white peoples get so infuriated by other human beings speaking their native language on a bus or the three words Black Lives Matter. You see, you hear it, you experience…..all the time…: what is that thing …??? That’s the question.
You re very beautiful
Thank you
Toward the end of this interview I realised I couldn't recall a thing either person said.
She is American now?
Trying to understand people with different opinions is a very British thing to do. Americans aren't so good at it.
Zadie's "friendships" with old male writers is very humorous to imagine. She isn't the first person that comes to mind when discussing the life and work of Phillip Roth. Zadie is always pretentious, interesting, annoying, funny, (without trying to be) and endlessly entertaining. Kate McKinnon should try to do a Zadie Smith character on SNL.
ഇവരെ തേടി വരുന്ന മലയാളികൾക്ക്
21st Century Literary
pretty depressing thought innit