nice! This is almost exactly how we did this at DLC when we had an X32 (we used StudioOne). We liked it so much that we ran our bass through an amp model plug-in as well.
Great stuff Kade! How does Waves Tune affect speaking? Our worship team will talk to the congregation between songs and don’t want that necessarily “tuned”. Thanks for all you do!
If you have the settings for TuneLIve set to like Natural Chromatic or something like that, it's very soft correction. You won't have to worry about any T-Pain sounding prayers
Bro, You can use autotune like insert from aux1-6. I'm patch auxout1-6 to cardout1-6 and auxin1-6 to cardin1-6. In channel turn on insert from aux. In this case You can setup gain in channel. And if your PC crash - just turn off insert.
4:45 - I've found that using the X-Edit desktop app makes things super easy (especially for volunteers) and the routing is easier to understand when using it as well. I've suggested to 2 churches that have X32's to get a computer (or raspberry Pi) with a touch screen running the X-Edit App, this way if their desk ever fails, they can still use their X32 Rack, and the touchscreen to run sound.
Been trying to implement vocal tuning in our setup using the Midas pro 2c. Still wrapping my head around what is needed for audio routing but thank you for your helpful videos!! Hopefully it will click soon 😅
Keep massaging that routing screen. :) You'll get there. Just remember, as long as you save a scene first, you can always revert back should you mess things up. Takes the pressure off. :)
Quick question, is the latency noticeable. I know Ableton says like 5 ms, but is that noticable live? If so, should i add a delay on my band subgroup in order to account for the latency
We sometimes use it in Worship House Dresden, but never with the X32. After knowing it and how simple it is, I think about implementing it into our church and now your Video - thanks. My question would be: is Abelton Intro enough or do I need the studio version?
Not sure on your specific mixer, but this strategy should work with most digital mixers that have a USB audio interface that outputs/inputs all the channels.
Great video! My church is experimenting with this but with using logic. We have a small worship team, so we use channels 1-16 for raw inputs, and are experimenting with using channels 17-32 for returns from logic. So far, we’ve had a lot of success! As far as Waves tuning, what settings do you recommend for the most natural sounding vocals? Also, do you have someone use the DAW to change the key between every song, or do you use chromatic mode? Also, what do you do when a singer speaks between songs? Do you turn off auto tune, or do you just let it be?
The default settings work great for soft, natural pitch correction. You can also try a little more aggressive settings like Victory Church is using, which we discovered in this tour video: th-cam.com/video/xvjpX8WKawk/w-d-xo.html Currently, we use chromatic. But tuning is better when key-specific, so we are about to dive into figuring out how to automatically cue key changes in Waves via MIDI when a scene/snippet is changed on the X32.
@@collabworship been running this type of setup for a while now. Works pretty well. I use ableton to automate lyrics In propresenter, and also to switch keys in waves tune.
for more natural settings, just slow down the the reaction times of the plugin. the standard is noticeable for the musician police. if you slow it down a bit to 50ms and 100ms and just correct 80%, it'll be very smooth and unnoticeable with good singers. I'd only use key specific tuning instead of chromatic, if the singers really aren't that decent and you know what key the song is in.
Dope video! If my vocalists would have no issue with hearing their tuned vocals, or if my vocalists do not currently use in ears, is it still necessary to double each vocal channel input? Thanks
Yes. You'll still need to double the channels. Of course, you can always give it a shot to find out what happens. But I can almost guarantee the end result will be doubling the channels so you can have raw vocals in your monitors.
Great Video, really want to give this a try. One question, we have our X32 already connected to a DAW (Cakewalk) for multitrack recording. Is it possible to do live vocal tuning and recording at the same time??
it's possible, however the hard drives need to be fast enough and reliable, especially getting close to the 32 channel limit. there's also an option to do autotune shitty through an AUX out and use the tc electronic vocal pedal with manual selection of key per song.
Hey Kade, ok noob question.. we are already using Dante with our system so what might need to change? Can we still run things the same way you’re recommending? The first step of your process looks different for us on the X32 screen.
Hey Carman - Yes, you can still use the same process with Dante. You'll just need to set your routing configuration so that the signals come to and from dante instead of the CARD.
Perfect- we have a separate x32 console for FOH and the x32 rack mount for live stream. We are only concerned with using waves tune on the livestream for right now. Since thats the case, is there any need for me to have 2 dedicated channels for each vocal since the monitor mix is only being sent from the FOH console? I set it up last week, but will be using it for the first time this week and want to make sure I don't hit any un expected road bumps with routing.
It does well at noticing speaking vs singing. We've never noticed any tuning being applied when our vocalist speak. Wouldn't recommend leaving the tuning engaged for an entire sermon, but it'd be worth testing out.
Great video! Do you have to do anything specific to deal with any latency? Can a church implement this if they don’t have a separate mix for the stream?
Hey Joshua - We've not had any problems with latency. And yes, you can still implement this even if you don't have a separate mix for live stream. But while we are on the subject, I've discovered a method for customizing the live stream mix without having to have a completely separate mix. You can learn about it in this video: th-cam.com/video/lxykyWtED9s/w-d-xo.html
We found that there WAS latency for us BUT it was so small that only the performers had issues if the treated sound was in their IEM's accidentally. The audience, including FOH, could't tell.
@@sethwhite3424 Yes, great point. Those using IEMs will notice latency. But with the solution I give in this video, the tuned vocal isn't going to the IEMs anyways, so no problem.
Can you accomplish this with X-Live via ethernet connection? I have X-Live connected but when I want to re-route the channels it's not sending the tuned vocal back into the x32.
I'm attempting to set this up at my church, on my personal laptop for now until I get it figured out. I'm using an X32 but I have a different DAW, Cakewalk by Bandlab. I believe I have the inputs and outputs set up exactly as you have, and I see signal in both sets of vocal channels, but I have 3 issues. Signal strength is very weak on the raw (untuned vocal) vocal channels. Despite updating my P-16 vocal inputs to match untuned vocal channels I have no sound in the IEM. The Wave plug-in is present and activated on the vocal channels in my DAW, but it isn't doing anything (works fine when playing back previous recordings). I'm thinking maybe I've set up something wrong in Cakewalk but I can't find it. Any ideas?
really nice video thank you ! How do you deal with the voice when the singer is talking ? Do you mute the tuned vocal channel and unmute the raw ? If so, do you have a shortcut access ?
We've not noticed any issues with leaving vocal tuning on when the vocal is talking. Since it is just "subtle tuning", it is not noticeable when talking.
if you're into more "T-Pain" like tuning and you use backing tracks somewhere, just automate it as ON at the start of the backing tracks and OFF when it ends, so the singer/speaker can talk without it on. out of experience I can tell you if the effect is set to subtle setting, it's probably easiest to leave it on.
I haven't tried it, but: what about using an Aux as an Insert (avoiding the duplicate channel) and then taking the monitor mix from the pre-EQ tap on the channel (which is pre-Insert if I'm not mistaken)?
So this would most likely need a dedicated computer to run Abelton correct? We have a fast capable computer but it’s running our ProPresenter and 6 video outputs
I would just give it a try on that one. Might be capable of more than you think. Is the computer handling the video processing or are you using some type of hardware processor like an Atem?
I am trying to follow this step by step but at around 4:00 when you are setting up each channel with EXT In and EXT Out, Abelton Live 11 doesn't show those options. Not sure what I need to do.
How do you deal with the different keys of a setlist? Or you just leave Waves Tune on Chromatic mode? That's a bit dangerous... could bring more harm than good. Especially if a singer is more than 50 cents off tone (that's a quarter of a tone -- can easily happen), then their voice would be tuned to the wrong note. To overcome this, you could either use another plugin, called Metatune, by Slate Digital, which allows multiple instances of the plugin to be grouped and controlled as one, or you could use Live Professor with snapshots for every key. Just don't forget to change keys. Vocals being tuned 1 tone or 1 semitone to the wrong note sounds awful.
We keep it in chromatic. Currently researching the best way to trigger the right key for each song with our setup. For us, chromatic has been fine. Our vocalists are pretty accurate. But when we have tested setting the key, it's def cleaner and more accurate. Thanks for the tips!
If you're using the channels coming back from the DAW (tuned) for both the room and the broadcast, they will both be tuned. You could use the un-tuned channels (before going to the DAW) for the room if you didn't want to tune in the room, but you would have two channels for each vocal to keep up with.
Nope! Our live stream is run on a different computer. We use our presentation computer for the vocal tuning DAW though and it has worked great. Just need to make sure your computer can handle two heavy tasks like that at once.
Ok I have a MacBook running Logic with Waves Autotune going to the X32 via USB. How do I run the second “USB” signal from my X32 to my livestream computer (Not the MacBook)? Thanks!
@@collabworship Nevermind, I think that I’m answering my own questions with a little research. I should be able to run the livestream buses out of a L and R Aux, thing is, will I need another interface or can I plug it directly into my Mac? Another interface means another purchase.
@@collabworship Oh it's no worries at all, you're busy!! Thank you for even responding! I, unfortunately, didn't. I worked on it for a few hours before rehearsal last week. I thought I had set everything up per the worksheet but to no avail. I have a signal on Ableton and can see movement on Waves that it's working, but when I try and test it ( by making it sound like T-Pain so I can REALLY tell hahah) It doesn't work through the sound system. I'm assuming I'm missing something on the x32 somewhere. My first question after all this rambling 😂 is do you do everything on the entire cheat sheet? second, when I watch the video I get kinda confused about the setup of the 2 channels for every vocal. it's where you talk about setting up your channels 1-4 for tuned vocals through the card and then channels through 29-32 is mics plugged in. I currently have my vocals on channels 1-4 and I think I just duplicated the channels to another available channel. I think my hold-up is how to route it properly with the 2 channels per vocal. Is there another video on how you do that? Wow, I'm so sorry this was a lot. I'm the worship pastor and over our A/V so TH-cam is pretty much my only source for trying to fix things. So I totally understand if this is too much to even start to explain to me
@@deloryhuelle9384 It sounds like you may be sending the wrong channel to the main mix. If you send the primary channel (where the vocal is plugged in), it will be unturned. You need to send only the channel coming from the CARD to the main mix. To test this, try turning up the one you haven't had turned up and see if it's tuned.
@@collabworship Thanks I appreciate it! I now don't have any signal going to Ableton. I don't want to give up, but this has been a hard task for me to tackle. 😅😅
@@collabworship update!! After many trial and errors and research! I got it working! Got everything set up using your method and then got it! --now to figure out what sounds best tuned with my vocals-the standard waves tunes sounds a little robotish. But I guess that is due to the singer. THANK YOU!
This is great. Thank you. I do however am having trouble either with me routing the x32 to bring signal back to local channels OR something with me programming ableton. Here my problem and hope for some assistance please. Everything works up to ableton and waves tune working BUT still have no signal coming back in to my x32 tune channels. RAW are 9 - 12. I’m using local set up. Don’t have AES50. Tune channels are 1-3 and 8. No signal coming back in. If anyone can assist that would be amazing. Thank you 🙏🏼🙏🏼
Thank you for the reply back. I did download the cheat sheet followed it and for some reason still not getting signal from ableton back to x32 channels. Thank you
Gave this a whirl today. Works perfectly except for the latency. Ableton is showing a 8ms delay, which I can notice. Any way to reduce this? Using x32 with x-USB connected to a Mac studio running Ableton.
Actually used this during the service today. Hardest part is realizing that monitor mixes have to come from the raw channels AND it’s good to have atleast some eq on those channels also so that they sound good for in ear. I copied from the tuned channels, but it’s hard to keep up with adjustments on both raw and tuned channels. Another note, for me I think my computer fail safe is to have an identical scene on my x32 where it doesn’t route to/from the computer. Too many things to remember to switch especially since we’re using a post fader bus for our livestream.
You got it. Untuned vocals have to be used for monitoring because of latency, and the simple fact that a tuned vocal sounds weird to the person actually singing. And good call copying the EQ. I wouldn't worry too much about keeping them in sync because it's unlikely you'll actually have to use them as a failsafe. If you do, you just need great baseline EQ, which you now have since you copied it over.
Nice thing! But wouldn’t it be possible to just have the inputs of the vocals from the stagebox on 2 channels, routing one (raw) to the P16 and having the other one set up with an insert to Waves and back? That way you could have preamp control as well one your tuned vocal channels.
@@collabworship its basically a way more affordable version of Waves Sound grid SuperRack and better in the fact it runs every plugin I've tried Where as soundgrid only runs waves plugins
@@collabworship Sweet! We just did it with our vocals and can't wait to try it out. Another question, could you do it with drums? Like running triggers through ableton?
@@huydavidpham No, you have to set the key, or leave it in chromatic mode. Vocalists need to be decently accurate to begin with for chromatic to sound good though.
I typically enjoy your tech advise and videos but feel I need to weigh in on this one. I think we have to remember Who we are serving. I believe the Lord loves to hear us sing our praises to Him even if the pitch of our voice isn't perfect because we are not perfect. I can see where vocal tuning probably comes in handy for the recording industry. However, trying to make it so we have a perfect live stream every week seems like vanity to please our live stream audience (or ourselves). We are not serving the live stream audience. I am a volunteer sound tech at our church running the FOH and live stream mixes. I set up a crowd mic for the live stream and use reverb to try to make the live stream as near to being in church as possible. To add vocal tuning seems over the top to me. Just my opinion.
I can totally relate to this comment. I feel like there is a balance between practicality, quality, and necessity. I think this can look different for each church, and all can work together to honor God. In my experience, a lot of first time guests come to our church after first watching our live stream. Therefore, little things we can do to improve our services can add up and maybe even bring in a guest that wouldn't typically come. Even if guests are coming for the wrong reasons (nice lights, tuned vocals, etc.), they are still coming and have a chance to hear the gospel and maybe even get saved. I don't think vocal tuning is necessary, but if you have the volunteers who are nerdy (like me!) and want to experiment with it, this is helpful to learn how :)
Totally get this perspective. And like I said in the video, we just recently implemented it at my church, so it clearly wasn't a priority for us. Now that it's done, it is so simply to run that we will keep using it so we can provide more excellence with our live stream mix.
Totally DO NOT get it. if I need to pitch correct someone, I would buy them a Brett manning course,. Pitch correction so destroys the human connection with something fake...I’m a producer...sound is about connecting the musicians, not fixing them. Just wow...bring vocal porn to the altar...I don’t understand how you can not hear the difference?
I get the sentiment yet we have to understand some people can’t get into worship if the vocals are out of wack. Sound men can’t focus well when visiting a church with many audio issues including problem frequencies that most don’t hear in the mix. Sure you don’t have to over do it to the point it sounds synthetic, but some things need a little assistance.
Wow I can’t believe people need to ‘tune’ the most incredible God given instrument...I’m gob smacked...if they are pitchy, then practice? A couple of months of scales...Um no pain no gain...filthy wrags on the altar. I guess the truth can hurt...I accept at a secular gig where product and performance are foremost. That’s why so many fall...not allowed to be real...I don’t mean to offend but maybe think about Yahs point of view?
For us, it boils down to how live vocals translate to live streaming. Even the most professional vocalist will sound pitchy on the live stream because of how live sound works. They don't sound pitchy in the room, but they do on the live stream. That's why recording studios exist for recorded music. But, to get the best of both worlds, a wonderful tool called vocal tuning exists. We don't find it necessary for the room mix, but it is definitely helpful on the live stream mix.
@@collabworship I wasnt trying to offend btw... Ive been doing audio engineering for around 40 years and set up with a number of churches for livestream and seen a simliar slant start to creep in under the guise of excellence vs Spirit and Truth. It all started a couple of years back listening to some worship music...asking myself...what is wrong with that...and it wasnt just the autotune. Trying to be helpful, I think you may have an actual different issue, unless the room has some serious smearing issues with reflection (which usually does the opposite and sounds pitchy in the room but not on monitor). Latency is the biggest damage...let me guess (could be way wrong) but you are using wless mics with wless in ears in a digital desk? Each ms of latency is pitch killer to even great singers esp with overly loud iem. If the mix and pitch sounds good in monitory cans on the buss out then it is good...I would be looking for other issues like phase/delay in your room mics too...as a suggestion and maybe you are already doing this but a 3Dio type room mic with measured timing provides a great POV ambience that is hard to be beat and easy to manage. Its a little rough but the saying 'Spend the time moulding the gold, not polishing the poo' is so true (lol my saying) The outpouring of His Spirit truthfully through our expression overshadows and technicality ie 5 stones and a sling. Peace!
Even the best singers will sound a bit off on a live stream. That's why albums are recorded in a studio. It's impossible to get perfect pitch in a live sound setting.
I use the USB for out livestream mix out of a linked bus mix. Can I still use this setup for our livestream mix? Your x32 mastery doesn't cover this. Can it route from x32 to auto tune back to x32 back to livestream on same PC? Love the content BTW thanks brother.
Yes, this is possible. You have 32in/32out channels available via USB. You are only using 2out for the bus mix. So you still have 32in/30out to work with for vocal tuning and such.
nice! This is almost exactly how we did this at DLC when we had an X32 (we used StudioOne). We liked it so much that we ran our bass through an amp model plug-in as well.
Nice!
The first thing our church tried was running the Bass through an amp emulator. It was awesome!
Thank you so much! This is exactly what I was looking for!
Can we have the boring video of you walking us through it? 😂 I’m for that video 100%!
😂
I second this request!@@collabworship
@@garrettbeatty Please!
Информация на вес золота
Спасибо!
Great stuff Kade! How does Waves Tune affect speaking? Our worship team will talk to the congregation between songs and don’t want that necessarily “tuned”. Thanks for all you do!
If you have the settings for TuneLIve set to like Natural Chromatic or something like that, it's very soft correction. You won't have to worry about any T-Pain sounding prayers
@@sethwhite3424 thanks Seth! (In my best T-Pain “payer” voice.
Assuming your settings in Waves are so that pitch correction sound natural, you won't notice it when speaking.
Bro, You can use autotune like insert from aux1-6. I'm patch auxout1-6 to cardout1-6 and auxin1-6 to cardin1-6. In channel turn on insert from aux. In this case You can setup gain in channel. And if your PC crash - just turn off insert.
Great tip! We are using Aux Ins for other things, so they weren't available. But if they were, I'd definitely go that route.
4:45 - I've found that using the X-Edit desktop app makes things super easy (especially for volunteers) and the routing is easier to understand when using it as well.
I've suggested to 2 churches that have X32's to get a computer (or raspberry Pi) with a touch screen running the X-Edit App, this way if their desk ever fails, they can still use their X32 Rack, and the touchscreen to run sound.
solid idea!
Anyone know how to do this with a Allen & Heath SQ, and Logic Pro as the DAW?
Been trying to implement vocal tuning in our setup using the Midas pro 2c. Still wrapping my head around what is needed for audio routing but thank you for your helpful videos!! Hopefully it will click soon 😅
Keep massaging that routing screen. :) You'll get there. Just remember, as long as you save a scene first, you can always revert back should you mess things up. Takes the pressure off. :)
routing in midas pro desks is a lot more powerful and complex!
Quick question, is the latency noticeable. I know Ableton says like 5 ms, but is that noticable live? If so, should i add a delay on my band subgroup in order to account for the latency
It's only noticeable to the vocalist and only if they were monitoring themselves in the room.
We sometimes use it in Worship House Dresden, but never with the X32. After knowing it and how simple it is, I think about implementing it into our church and now your Video - thanks. My question would be: is Abelton Intro enough or do I need the studio version?
Intro should be enough.
This is an awesome video....Thanks so much for the time you put into this content. Really awesome
Glad it was helpful!
Mind blowing!!! Is this possible in Allen & Heat mixers? We have a GLD. Thank you master!
Not sure on your specific mixer, but this strategy should work with most digital mixers that have a USB audio interface that outputs/inputs all the channels.
Great video! My church is experimenting with this but with using logic. We have a small worship team, so we use channels 1-16 for raw inputs, and are experimenting with using channels 17-32 for returns from logic. So far, we’ve had a lot of success!
As far as Waves tuning, what settings do you recommend for the most natural sounding vocals? Also, do you have someone use the DAW to change the key between every song, or do you use chromatic mode?
Also, what do you do when a singer speaks between songs? Do you turn off auto tune, or do you just let it be?
The default settings work great for soft, natural pitch correction. You can also try a little more aggressive settings like Victory Church is using, which we discovered in this tour video: th-cam.com/video/xvjpX8WKawk/w-d-xo.html
Currently, we use chromatic. But tuning is better when key-specific, so we are about to dive into figuring out how to automatically cue key changes in Waves via MIDI when a scene/snippet is changed on the X32.
@@collabworship been running this type of setup for a while now. Works pretty well. I use ableton to automate lyrics In propresenter, and also to switch keys in waves tune.
if its for live sound and live streaming I'd suggest live professor 2
for more natural settings, just slow down the the reaction times of the plugin. the standard is noticeable for the musician police. if you slow it down a bit to 50ms and 100ms and just correct 80%, it'll be very smooth and unnoticeable with good singers. I'd only use key specific tuning instead of chromatic, if the singers really aren't that decent and you know what key the song is in.
Dope video! If my vocalists would have no issue with hearing their tuned vocals, or if my vocalists do not currently use in ears, is it still necessary to double each vocal channel input? Thanks
Yes. You'll still need to double the channels. Of course, you can always give it a shot to find out what happens. But I can almost guarantee the end result will be doubling the channels so you can have raw vocals in your monitors.
Great Video, really want to give this a try. One question, we have our X32 already connected to a DAW (Cakewalk) for multitrack recording. Is it possible to do live vocal tuning and recording at the same time??
Yes. You'll just need to use the same computer for both.
it's possible, however the hard drives need to be fast enough and reliable, especially getting close to the 32 channel limit. there's also an option to do autotune shitty through an AUX out and use the tc electronic vocal pedal with manual selection of key per song.
Hey Kade, ok noob question.. we are already using Dante with our system so what might need to change? Can we still run things the same way you’re recommending? The first step of your process looks different for us on the X32 screen.
Does anyone have any suggestions per my question above? Thanks!
Hey Carman - Yes, you can still use the same process with Dante. You'll just need to set your routing configuration so that the signals come to and from dante instead of the CARD.
Perfect- we have a separate x32 console for FOH and the x32 rack mount for live stream. We are only concerned with using waves tune on the livestream for right now. Since thats the case, is there any need for me to have 2 dedicated channels for each vocal since the monitor mix is only being sent from the FOH console? I set it up last week, but will be using it for the first time this week and want to make sure I don't hit any un expected road bumps with routing.
Nope. No need for the duplicate channels if using two mixers.
Thank you for this video. Great information.
Thanks for watching!
Does this work with your pastor is also the lead singer who switches between singing and speaking abruptedly?
It does well at noticing speaking vs singing. We've never noticed any tuning being applied when our vocalist speak. Wouldn't recommend leaving the tuning engaged for an entire sermon, but it'd be worth testing out.
Great video! Do you have to do anything specific to deal with any latency? Can a church implement this if they don’t have a separate mix for the stream?
Hey Joshua - We've not had any problems with latency. And yes, you can still implement this even if you don't have a separate mix for live stream. But while we are on the subject, I've discovered a method for customizing the live stream mix without having to have a completely separate mix. You can learn about it in this video: th-cam.com/video/lxykyWtED9s/w-d-xo.html
We found that there WAS latency for us BUT it was so small that only the performers had issues if the treated sound was in their IEM's accidentally. The audience, including FOH, could't tell.
@@sethwhite3424 Yes, great point. Those using IEMs will notice latency. But with the solution I give in this video, the tuned vocal isn't going to the IEMs anyways, so no problem.
Can you accomplish this with X-Live via ethernet connection? I have X-Live connected but when I want to re-route the channels it's not sending the tuned vocal back into the x32.
I'm attempting to set this up at my church, on my personal laptop for now until I get it figured out. I'm using an X32 but I have a different DAW, Cakewalk by Bandlab. I believe I have the inputs and outputs set up exactly as you have, and I see signal in both sets of vocal channels, but I have 3 issues. Signal strength is very weak on the raw (untuned vocal) vocal channels. Despite updating my P-16 vocal inputs to match untuned vocal channels I have no sound in the IEM. The Wave plug-in is present and activated on the vocal channels in my DAW, but it isn't doing anything (works fine when playing back previous recordings). I'm thinking maybe I've set up something wrong in Cakewalk but I can't find it. Any ideas?
Not sure, Allan. I've not used Cakewalk before.
Thanks for posting!
You bet!
Hey, cool, but can you show me how that works with a XAir18? ;-)
really nice video thank you !
How do you deal with the voice when the singer is talking ? Do you mute the tuned vocal channel and unmute the raw ? If so, do you have a shortcut access ?
We've not noticed any issues with leaving vocal tuning on when the vocal is talking. Since it is just "subtle tuning", it is not noticeable when talking.
if you're into more "T-Pain" like tuning and you use backing tracks somewhere, just automate it as ON at the start of the backing tracks and OFF when it ends, so the singer/speaker can talk without it on. out of experience I can tell you if the effect is set to subtle setting, it's probably easiest to leave it on.
thanks for the insight!
Welcome!
I haven't tried it, but: what about using an Aux as an Insert (avoiding the duplicate channel) and then taking the monitor mix from the pre-EQ tap on the channel (which is pre-Insert if I'm not mistaken)?
I haven't tried this yet, but definitely worth a shot.
I was going to say the same thing, but you have already!
So this would most likely need a dedicated computer to run Abelton correct? We have a fast capable computer but it’s running our ProPresenter and 6 video outputs
I would just give it a try on that one. Might be capable of more than you think. Is the computer handling the video processing or are you using some type of hardware processor like an Atem?
I am trying to follow this step by step but at around 4:00 when you are setting up each channel with EXT In and EXT Out, Abelton Live 11 doesn't show those options. Not sure what I need to do.
For the Ext Out, it only gives me Config, 2-MIDI, and No Output.
Nevermind, I just realized that it automatically created MIDI channels instead of Audio channels.
In your routing cheat sheet, you have the card set to User out 1-32. Why did you route these as user out instead of user in?
CARD refers to everything you are sending out of the X32 and into the computer.
How do you deal with the different keys of a setlist? Or you just leave Waves Tune on Chromatic mode? That's a bit dangerous... could bring more harm than good. Especially if a singer is more than 50 cents off tone (that's a quarter of a tone -- can easily happen), then their voice would be tuned to the wrong note.
To overcome this, you could either use another plugin, called Metatune, by Slate Digital, which allows multiple instances of the plugin to be grouped and controlled as one, or you could use Live Professor with snapshots for every key. Just don't forget to change keys. Vocals being tuned 1 tone or 1 semitone to the wrong note sounds awful.
We keep it in chromatic. Currently researching the best way to trigger the right key for each song with our setup. For us, chromatic has been fine. Our vocalists are pretty accurate. But when we have tested setting the key, it's def cleaner and more accurate. Thanks for the tips!
@@collabworship I use Metatune and only for the broadcast mix, not for FoH. We have separate mixes, the broadcast mix is in a different room backstage
Cade, is the routing cheat sheet still available?
Yep! Here: collabwrshp.com/3xJn2mi
Do you have on this setup a separate mix for live?
If you're using the channels coming back from the DAW (tuned) for both the room and the broadcast, they will both be tuned.
You could use the un-tuned channels (before going to the DAW) for the room if you didn't want to tune in the room, but you would have two channels for each vocal to keep up with.
I wonder if I can do this vocal tuning using a X18 mixer ?
I believe the XR18 only has a 2-channel audio interface, which would keep this solution from being possible.
Do you have to use the same computer for running the Daw and livestream?
Nope! Our live stream is run on a different computer. We use our presentation computer for the vocal tuning DAW though and it has worked great. Just need to make sure your computer can handle two heavy tasks like that at once.
Ok I have a MacBook running Logic with Waves Autotune going to the X32 via USB. How do I run the second “USB” signal from my X32 to my livestream computer (Not the MacBook)? Thanks!
@@collabworship do you run your buses for your livestream out via USB or what?
@@collabworship Nevermind, I think that I’m answering my own questions with a little research. I should be able to run the livestream buses out of a L and R Aux, thing is, will I need another interface or can I plug it directly into my Mac? Another interface means another purchase.
Again…. NM! 😂 I figured it out. I’m just going to go Aux out into the ATEM pro that we have. Thanks for helping me process!! Haha
By biggest question is what do you do on Ableton to the x32, once you route everything. That is where I’m getting stumped
Hey Delory - sorry for the delayed response. Did you get it figured out? If not, will you provide a bit more detail on your question? Thanks.
@@collabworship Oh it's no worries at all, you're busy!! Thank you for even responding! I, unfortunately, didn't. I worked on it for a few hours before rehearsal last week. I thought I had set everything up per the worksheet but to no avail. I have a signal on Ableton and can see movement on Waves that it's working, but when I try and test it ( by making it sound like T-Pain so I can REALLY tell hahah) It doesn't work through the sound system.
I'm assuming I'm missing something on the x32 somewhere. My first question after all this rambling 😂 is do you do everything on the entire cheat sheet?
second, when I watch the video I get kinda confused about the setup of the 2 channels for every vocal. it's where you talk about setting up your channels 1-4 for tuned vocals through the card and then channels through 29-32 is mics plugged in.
I currently have my vocals on channels 1-4 and I think I just duplicated the channels to another available channel. I think my hold-up is how to route it properly with the 2 channels per vocal. Is there another video on how you do that?
Wow, I'm so sorry this was a lot. I'm the worship pastor and over our A/V so TH-cam is pretty much my only source for trying to fix things. So I totally understand if this is too much to even start to explain to me
@@deloryhuelle9384 It sounds like you may be sending the wrong channel to the main mix. If you send the primary channel (where the vocal is plugged in), it will be unturned. You need to send only the channel coming from the CARD to the main mix. To test this, try turning up the one you haven't had turned up and see if it's tuned.
@@collabworship Thanks I appreciate it! I now don't have any signal going to Ableton. I don't want to give up, but this has been a hard task for me to tackle. 😅😅
@@collabworship update!! After many trial and errors and research! I got it working! Got everything set up using your method and then got it! --now to figure out what sounds best tuned with my vocals-the standard waves tunes sounds a little robotish. But I guess that is due to the singer. THANK YOU!
This is great. Thank you. I do however am having trouble either with me routing the x32 to bring signal back to local channels OR something with me programming ableton. Here my problem and hope for some assistance please.
Everything works up to ableton and waves tune working BUT still have no signal coming back in to my x32 tune channels.
RAW are 9 - 12. I’m using local set up. Don’t have AES50.
Tune channels are 1-3 and 8. No signal coming back in.
If anyone can assist that would be amazing. Thank you 🙏🏼🙏🏼
Grab our routing cheat sheet using the following link. It will help you nail down the issue: collabwrshp.com/3xJn2mi
Thank you for the reply back. I did download the cheat sheet followed it and for some reason still not getting signal from ableton back to x32 channels. Thank you
Gave this a whirl today. Works perfectly except for the latency. Ableton is showing a 8ms delay, which I can notice. Any way to reduce this? Using x32 with x-USB connected to a Mac studio running Ableton.
Actually used this during the service today. Hardest part is realizing that monitor mixes have to come from the raw channels AND it’s good to have atleast some eq on those channels also so that they sound good for in ear. I copied from the tuned channels, but it’s hard to keep up with adjustments on both raw and tuned channels.
Another note, for me I think my computer fail safe is to have an identical scene on my x32 where it doesn’t route to/from the computer. Too many things to remember to switch especially since we’re using a post fader bus for our livestream.
You got it. Untuned vocals have to be used for monitoring because of latency, and the simple fact that a tuned vocal sounds weird to the person actually singing. And good call copying the EQ. I wouldn't worry too much about keeping them in sync because it's unlikely you'll actually have to use them as a failsafe. If you do, you just need great baseline EQ, which you now have since you copied it over.
Is It Possible with Soundcraft Si Impact 32 ?
Should be
Great Thanks!!👍👍👍👍👍👍
Glad it helped!
I wish you had tutors for presonus studiolive 32sc
More mixers coming soon! Presonus is on our list.
Nice thing!
But wouldn’t it be possible to just have the inputs of the vocals from the stagebox on 2 channels, routing one (raw) to the P16 and having the other one set up with an insert to Waves and back?
That way you could have preamp control as well one your tuned vocal channels.
Interesting thought man! And I believe it might just work. If you try it out, let us know how it goes.
why didn't you just use live professor 2?
First I've heard of it. I'll check it out. Thanks! -Kade
@@collabworship its basically a way more affordable version of Waves Sound grid SuperRack and better in the fact it runs every plugin I've tried Where as soundgrid only runs waves plugins
@@OG_Gamers_Live Nice. I'll have to check it out. Thanks!
is there a way to do this with antares???
I imagine the process is the same. Just installing a different plug-in to your DAW.
Can you show us how you would do it with Dante as well?
Our good friends @churchfront have a video on vocal tuning with Dante: th-cam.com/video/zuqo0p3xMx8/w-d-xo.html
Use TC HELICON mechanic 2...that's the winning solution for live vocal...very simple
Thanks! We'll have to look into that.
Can you do this on any other board with USB?
Yes, you should be able to use any digital mixer that allows channels to be sent to and from the mixer via USB.
@@collabworship Sweet! We just did it with our vocals and can't wait to try it out. Another question, could you do it with drums? Like running triggers through ableton?
are there any settings?
The default settings work great in waves tune.
@@collabworship so the waves will recognize the key by itself so there is no need to change it after a song?
@@huydavidpham No, you have to set the key, or leave it in chromatic mode.
Vocalists need to be decently accurate to begin with for chromatic to sound good though.
@@collabworship alright thank youu :)))
No example?
Here's an example of what it sounds like before/after vocal tuning applied: th-cam.com/video/6CVeGM4GQQk/w-d-xo.html
Waves software is now called SuperRack.
I typically enjoy your tech advise and videos but feel I need to weigh in on this one. I think we have to remember Who we are serving. I believe the Lord loves to hear us sing our praises to Him even if the pitch of our voice isn't perfect because we are not perfect. I can see where vocal tuning probably comes in handy for the recording industry. However, trying to make it so we have a perfect live stream every week seems like vanity to please our live stream audience (or ourselves). We are not serving the live stream audience. I am a volunteer sound tech at our church running the FOH and live stream mixes. I set up a crowd mic for the live stream and use reverb to try to make the live stream as near to being in church as possible. To add vocal tuning seems over the top to me. Just my opinion.
I can totally relate to this comment. I feel like there is a balance between practicality, quality, and necessity. I think this can look different for each church, and all can work together to honor God.
In my experience, a lot of first time guests come to our church after first watching our live stream. Therefore, little things we can do to improve our services can add up and maybe even bring in a guest that wouldn't typically come.
Even if guests are coming for the wrong reasons (nice lights, tuned vocals, etc.), they are still coming and have a chance to hear the gospel and maybe even get saved.
I don't think vocal tuning is necessary, but if you have the volunteers who are nerdy (like me!) and want to experiment with it, this is helpful to learn how :)
Totally get this perspective. And like I said in the video, we just recently implemented it at my church, so it clearly wasn't a priority for us. Now that it's done, it is so simply to run that we will keep using it so we can provide more excellence with our live stream mix.
Totally DO NOT get it. if I need to pitch correct someone, I would buy them a Brett manning course,. Pitch correction so destroys the human connection with something fake...I’m a producer...sound is about connecting the musicians, not fixing them. Just wow...bring vocal porn to the altar...I don’t understand how you can not hear the difference?
I get the sentiment yet we have to understand some people can’t get into worship if the vocals are out of wack. Sound men can’t focus well when visiting a church with many audio issues including problem frequencies that most don’t hear in the mix. Sure you don’t have to over do it to the point it sounds synthetic, but some things need a little assistance.
if the use auto tune can prevent people to get distract with a flat voice. I will use it.
Great video but I figured out years ago
Awesome!
Just get Superrack, problem solved.
Nerd
Wow I can’t believe people need to ‘tune’ the most incredible God given instrument...I’m gob smacked...if they are pitchy, then practice? A couple of months of scales...Um no pain no gain...filthy wrags on the altar. I guess the truth can hurt...I accept at a secular gig where product and performance are foremost. That’s why so many fall...not allowed to be real...I don’t mean to offend but maybe think about Yahs point of view?
For us, it boils down to how live vocals translate to live streaming. Even the most professional vocalist will sound pitchy on the live stream because of how live sound works. They don't sound pitchy in the room, but they do on the live stream. That's why recording studios exist for recorded music. But, to get the best of both worlds, a wonderful tool called vocal tuning exists. We don't find it necessary for the room mix, but it is definitely helpful on the live stream mix.
@@collabworship I wasnt trying to offend btw...
Ive been doing audio engineering for around 40 years and set up with a number of churches for livestream and seen a simliar slant start to creep in under the guise of excellence vs Spirit and Truth.
It all started a couple of years back listening to some worship music...asking myself...what is wrong with that...and it wasnt just the autotune.
Trying to be helpful, I think you may have an actual different issue, unless the room has some serious smearing issues with reflection (which usually does the opposite and sounds pitchy in the room but not on monitor). Latency is the biggest damage...let me guess (could be way wrong) but you are using wless mics with wless in ears in a digital desk? Each ms of latency is pitch killer to even great singers esp with overly loud iem. If the mix and pitch sounds good in monitory cans on the buss out then it is good...I would be looking for other issues like phase/delay in your room mics too...as a suggestion and maybe you are already doing this but a 3Dio type room mic with measured timing provides a great POV ambience that is hard to be beat and easy to manage.
Its a little rough but the saying 'Spend the time moulding the gold, not polishing the poo' is so true (lol my saying)
The outpouring of His Spirit truthfully through our expression overshadows and technicality ie 5 stones and a sling.
Peace!
Just get decent singers. Simple.
Even the best singers will sound a bit off on a live stream. That's why albums are recorded in a studio. It's impossible to get perfect pitch in a live sound setting.
I use the USB for out livestream mix out of a linked bus mix. Can I still use this setup for our livestream mix? Your x32 mastery doesn't cover this. Can it route from x32 to auto tune back to x32 back to livestream on same PC? Love the content BTW thanks brother.
So, you're mixing your livestream on the desk/ipad and then sending that bus out as a stereo signal to USB?
Yes, this is possible. You have 32in/32out channels available via USB. You are only using 2out for the bus mix. So you still have 32in/30out to work with for vocal tuning and such.
@@sethwhite3424 yes. Using two buses in stereo to send to livestream via USB.