No shit. I cant believe you discounted a player flopping a flush so much. The hand is played almost exactly like a person flopping a flush, and betting river is very player specific; most players would probably use their brains and CHECK river seeing as how villian calls a jumbo check raise and a turn bet. There's no value in betting river, if he puts his opponent on naked ace of clubs, and he's dead if the opponent has filled up. From heroes perspective... If Villian has naked ace of clubs, he's not calling. And he's PROBABLY folding most overpairs for a jam. Dumb. Ass. Poker.
I probably would have bet bigger than 30% pot on the flop. Villain still might be check raising here, but it looks a lot stronger if the villain check raises a large bet.
@@lgf2202 I agree. It feels like you're either behind, or you're ahead, but you're getting stacked by the ace of clubs if a fourth club comes. I think K-Q off with the Queen of clubs is the only hand where you're ahead AND you're not getting stacked on a fourth club. I think QQ with the Queen of clubs probably doesn't check raise the flop. Betting small on the flop invites more check raises, which is one reason that I prefer a larger bet size on the flop: it makes it easier to bet-fold.
I'm checking behind. I think villain has a lot more winning hands that call me than losing hands. I value own myself by betting this river. As villain, I likely do check hoping that hero bluffs. I think I get more value by checking...there aren't a lot of hands worse than this flush that still call the river...there are a lot of hands that will bluff though.
Now that hero realizes that villain tank called with a small flush, do we think villain is ever calling with over pairs?? Seems like villain would have folded AA to the jamb and maybe that size isn’t ideal.
This is what I was thinking. If the villain had AA w/ the Ace of clubs he could definitely check raise, but also if they have this much history and knew the hero can be aggressive and bluff on occasion, wouldn't this be the perfect hand to let him hang himself most of the time? I think he would just check/call it down rather than getting his money in good. I was thinking the villain had suited connectors for a flush (not 5-6 exactly, but something like 89 of clubs that is already made and he would unbock the broadway cards for the pairs/ straight)
There's a lesson to be learned from this...if the player is tight but aggressive (TAG) and check raises, he's not usually bluffing (unless has a HUGE combo draw that he's actually betting for the odds that he's going to have the highest equity on the flop and not afraid to get it in). Good players who play tight like this villain did is a solid way of playing, and is common amongst your 20's-40's in age players. I can't fault the caller's logic, but when a tight player is betting into me and then checks it's b/c he's afraid of him not having the "best" hand anymore (i.e, board pairs, another flush card comes) and he's just wanting to get to showdown. Use this to your favor with your nut hands and bet/call the flop and continue calling until the river and then still pull this jam on him to get value. It's the opposite of playing against a fish because you want to bet into them IMMEDIATELY to extract value as they are still going to call.
There's not many worse hands that will call here, maybe QcTh, QcJx or AcJx. Not many better hands that would fold either, except maybe tiny flushes like he had.
Literally NOTHING in that hand to me says the villain has an over pair. Like at all. The only 2 hands that made sense was a flush or bluffing with the ace of clubs so given those two hands there’s no point of betting that river. Yeah I don’t like your evaluation of this hand at all Bart.
To say that 'NOTHING' says over pair but an Ace of clubs bluff makes sense is so contradictory. Just in case you still haven't worked it out, as played too, he can't NOT have AA with the club. You have smart owned yourself here, and you never had that strong of a hand anyway.
Yeah my immediate reaction was to check back river. There really aren't that many overpairs, and overpairs need to have a club in it. It's insane to xr red AA on the flop, so we're just down to 6 combos of AA/QQcx. And those hands don't always call. So the value is really thin given how it's played so far. There's a pretty big chance that someone trap checks a boat or flush here to let AcX blast off, yes they can also do it with AAcx, but there are way more combos of flushes+boats, I think we're getting value owned far more than we're getting value
Same. Intuitively I felt the check-raise line is more indicative of a baby flush. Weird that caller and Bart seemed to look surprised when Bart is usually great at hand reading. Still enjoyed this hand bc I can see the logic of overpairs taking this line which I would have discounted
Exactly, although it’s not a thin value if most of the time when called you’re toasted, but simply a losing bet. A thin value bet would be in a case when you’re good about 51% of the time when called :) Quite surprising to see a professional player suggesting a clearly losing all-in shove.
The merit is, that you keep the betting lead, get value from inferior hands and have a strong draw if behind. I would probably Mix Here, checking Back against more aggressive opponents more offen and pure betting vs stationy players. I'd say, that in this Spot, the flop is close to a fold when facing this Check/raise. If we're concerned, that villain will raise many bluffs, we shouldnt even bet this Hand class in the first place and bet more polarized. If villain doesnt bluff here and mainly shows up with nut hands, we can fold
After calling the XR on the flop....I'm folding when he continues on the turn. But if we do go to the river, the hero's hand is not strong enough or weak enough for a polarized shove.
I would be really worried on the turn that a fourth club coming on the river means that I lose all my chips to the nut flush. I don't know if I can think of the clubs as safe outs. Heck, even a Queen might not be safe if the villain has a flush or even AK (AK with the Ace of Clubs makes sense here).
@@BigRed2 Yeah, it's close. But his check raise is basically a pot sized bet. With the K clubs equity, I would call check raise but be ready to fold turn.
The shove on the river Bart suggested is terrible. Targeting 3 combos (Ac-Ax) which might fold anyways? Hero blocks Kc-Kx (red kings check-raising flop looks like suicide) and discounting dozens of combos of flushes. All of that vs a tight, straightforward player. A suggested blunder both theoretically and practically.
I dont think people realize how "nitty" solvers are BvB. The reason is BvB there a lot more range checks and traps than people think in these configurations. The reason for that is because the ranges are really fucking wide. Wider than humans think and EV edges in these wide configuration are razor thin. This is why playing BvB live is a waste of time. Not to mention live players rarely 3bet polar in these configurations (like taking the worst Ax, Kx, Qx, Jx) and making it like 250 or something preflop. All of this leads me to think that no one in live poker actually knows what they are doing. Looking at solver inputs in these positions is more useless than looking at a crystal ball. No one plays x-80% in these spots with weird donk leads on cards.
In spots where players don't know what they're doing is where you find the most +ev. You can set specific ranges of your opponent and node lock your opponent's tendencies in Piosolver.
I might have missed it, but I don't think Bart - you had mentioned a small flush. But, this was exactly what I was thinking when he first check raised... TBH, I'm a check behind on river too.
The question about jamming the turn. Can someone please explain to me why that would be a good line? If you've got 2nd pair with a gutter and 2nd nut flush draw wouldn't that be overplaying your hand? Turning a hand that has loads of showdown value into a bluff. Idk... Is ACAX folding here?
I had villian on clubs, although not that small. Makes sense with slowing down on the paired board too. I still don't like the river check, but I love the call.
Unless the opponents are overvaluing the overpair I don’t know that they’re supposed to call a pot sized bet here. Basically all value got there by the river. I don’t think villain’s play is that weird-he’s showing strength with a check raise flop and a sizing that leaves a pot sized bet behind on the turn. A lot of the hands that would call either made a boat on the river or already were winning with a bigger flush. I don’t think that hero’s play is awful but it did not seem like many hands he beat would have played the way villain did.
jam seems awful, you can bet tiny if you think there is a chance that villain will turn his busted Ax draw into a bluff, but other than that its a clear check
I probably would have checked back river with a strong suspicion that I was checking back the winner. The problem is the hands that call that you beat is such a narrow portion of their range that makes it to the river it’s not worth the value bet. I potentially like a small size and fold to a shove
Bart and the caller said that J10o and 2's are both in the callers range. So the villain explanation isn't too off. 9's with the 9 of clubs is likely calling pre, betting flop calling a check raise, calling turn and jamming river. I think I like a check here for hero. If the villain is a little more straightforward not sure he's calling with a single pair.
I'm late to the party but, I immediately put him on a small flush or jacks when he check raised flop. Because of this, I would've snap checked river. When the board paired he got scared.
Straight and flush on the board...I'm checking this back 100% of the time on the river, regardless of solver results. I can't imagine that's a long-term losing play, but I could definitely be wrong. If you have the best hand, even as Bart states, the majority of the time, how often are you actually getting paid by worse? I think you're limited to the other 10, with the queen of clubs as the only possible winning call (typed it before reveal).
Why is the river check bad on the villains part? If he jams, what worse hands will the hero call with? If the Hero is known to be on the agressive side, more reason to check with the intention to call.
From a GTO perspective, I think It's a check-behind on the river if v check-jams his flush. Here, it sounded like v was concerned about being behind. Exploitatively, given their history, it's an all-day shove
River bet was out of line. Overpair would not called river shove. If H expected an overpair, then why calling flop x/r with an inferior hand? Relying on Kc flush draw was wrong; that might not happen, and in case it does, then club is counterout against an Ac. KT was a fold on flop against a x/r.
Weird interesting hand. I think in game I would check back flop bet turn if checked to and call reasonable bets on turns and on this river probably bet if checked too and call when bet into. I think checking back flop with a weak middle ish absolute hand strength hand just makes it easy to play. This hand plays easy. When piles go in your beat a lot when the pot is small you just win a lot.
What sizing would you like from the villain’s perspective? I think 40% pot then fold to a jam since the only hands I see the villain losing to as played are JTo, Ace/King rag flushes, but beats bricked flush draws, Jx, 10x, KQ, 78s
I don't like the suggestion that hero shove the turn. A tighter villain really doesn't have many check-raise bluffs on the flop (AK/AQ/KQ with a club?) but they have a ton of value. On the turn, hero is behind to villain's entire value-range and villain probably won't be folding one pair hands like QQc or AAc. I don't think there's enough air, or value that villain is folding, for the shove to be profitable.
In the small Stakes I play.. one- three you only get called On The River by better hands .. you may get called by worse hands if you've got small for value. If you go all in and you are called you are beat
I really like Josh. He's obviously a thinking player. How does he describe villain? Straightforward, tight, competent, good player. The he & Bart discuss villain check-raising AcXx on this flop. So now I'm lost. To be honest, when the X/R came I thought about AJ with club, AA with club, or a flush. I'd never put the described villain on just a dry ace clubs. I honestly question how great the call was on flop. Without our king high flush draw how strong are we? If villain has either a flush or the ace of clubs - how badly are we praying for a 4th club to hit? As to the river play; I'm guilty of missing value in this kind of spot because I'm never jamming here & I'm certainly not bet-folding $500 here either.
The flop check-raise on a monotone board generally either means a semi-bluff with the Ace-high draw or a made hand that doesn't want to get drawn out on (a set or lower flush). Theres no way top pair is good here if it isn't the semi-bluff (that includes that top pair becoming trips on a later street like it did here). That being said, I would have called on the flop because I had the King high draw and then re-assessed on the turn depending on whether or not the 4th club hit. If it did hit, i would have gone into calldown mode and hoped I wasn't up against the nuts, paying it off if i was. If it didn't hit, i would have folded to the turn bet because i definitely wouldn't be getting the price to draw again with one card to come and if hes continuing to tell his story in that manner, its pretty believable.
River absolutely should just have been a checkback as played. I'm not even sure how many small flushes we expect Villain to even have that we can scare off with a shove if he's gonna call down with 56c. I don't expect we'll be called by a weaker-T except by maybe something like QT with Qc, but there's only one combo of that available. Hands like KJ or AJ may call some times, but are likely to fold. AT probably calls some frequency and we lose. Feels way too much like a scenario where we rarely get a call from a hand we beat, and also likely don't fold out enough hands that beat us.
My immediate river thought is that he's going for a check raise to get some value out of you when you missed (so you might bluff when you'd fold to a bet) or have a T or KQ. Maybe going for a check call with a flush just because you can so easily have JT, a bigger flush if he's not nutted, etc. I'm nitty checking back against a tight player all day or maybe going very small if I think he hates to fold overpairs.
@@jeremyhahn3612 you go for a check raise hoping he bluffs. He's not going to call the raise, obviously, but his bet itself is more value than you get betting yourself.
Check back the river. Your play shows a strong hand so he won't call with an over pair, any other call beats you. There is no point for value bet here.
I wouldn't be that confident that you're good when tight villain tank calls. Tighter players might tank call with weak straights, lower made flushes , A 10 and even pocket 2s.
I guessed correctly before the reveal. This smelt like the villain had a flush and was scared when the board paired because you could have a boat now. People don't typically raise a monotone board w an overpaid..esp chk raise.
If he’s tight why call bluff caters if he’s under bluffing the exploit is to fold all your bluff catchers. River check makes total sense from villain if hero is calling this hand he’s probably calling most Ac that’s going to be bluffing a lot. Hard for get called bye worse if he just jams river himself
The villain isn't going to check raise the Flop with an obvious flush draw out there like that with just an overpair imo if you guys say he's a nit...a nit wouldn't be that aggressive and would be afraid of the flush..hell this guy almost folded the flush anyway 😂
Once you call turn..what are you even hoping for? Litterally could be drawing dead already on the turn. If I call turn, Im just hoping to hit a flush and hope to get to show down cheaply. 3 tens aint that good on this board. 😅
He clearly should have checked back - the ten is a set up card. You made trips. He clearly flopped a small flush. Nothing in this configuration implies over pair. He either had 2-2 or a small flush.
My perception is that callers are down about 300k when they go for thin value in these spots. Somebody run the numbers! 😂 Most regular players aren't calling down with worse on this run out. The only hand that might is 10, x worse kicker?
Have to check the river , losing to too many hands .. Even losing to A-10… 10-J… straights High and low.. Oh and a flush, you have to check back 100 percent
What bet size should you take on the flop on a monotone board with two broadway cards when it's big blind vs straddle? Is 30% pot the right size? I would expect a bigger bet on the flop.
What is this advice Bart like the whole chat knows this was off. You're supposed to be better than us. And Nate saying he would raise on the turn wtf is that lol
What would you have done differently? Would you have checked back on this river?
No shit. I cant believe you discounted a player flopping a flush so much. The hand is played almost exactly like a person flopping a flush, and betting river is very player specific; most players would probably use their brains and CHECK river seeing as how villian calls a jumbo check raise and a turn bet. There's no value in betting river, if he puts his opponent on naked ace of clubs, and he's dead if the opponent has filled up.
From heroes perspective... If Villian has naked ace of clubs, he's not calling. And he's PROBABLY folding most overpairs for a jam.
Dumb. Ass. Poker.
I probably would have bet bigger than 30% pot on the flop. Villain still might be check raising here, but it looks a lot stronger if the villain check raises a large bet.
I'm folding on the flop. I don't have much invested and not drawing to the nuts. Why put yourself in a tough spot navigating the turn and river.
@@lgf2202 I agree. It feels like you're either behind, or you're ahead, but you're getting stacked by the ace of clubs if a fourth club comes. I think K-Q off with the Queen of clubs is the only hand where you're ahead AND you're not getting stacked on a fourth club. I think QQ with the Queen of clubs probably doesn't check raise the flop.
Betting small on the flop invites more check raises, which is one reason that I prefer a larger bet size on the flop: it makes it easier to bet-fold.
I'm checking behind. I think villain has a lot more winning hands that call me than losing hands. I value own myself by betting this river. As villain, I likely do check hoping that hero bluffs. I think I get more value by checking...there aren't a lot of hands worse than this flush that still call the river...there are a lot of hands that will bluff though.
Now that hero realizes that villain tank called with a small flush, do we think villain is ever calling with over pairs?? Seems like villain would have folded AA to the jamb and maybe that size isn’t ideal.
This is what I was thinking. If the villain had AA w/ the Ace of clubs he could definitely check raise, but also if they have this much history and knew the hero can be aggressive and bluff on occasion, wouldn't this be the perfect hand to let him hang himself most of the time? I think he would just check/call it down rather than getting his money in good. I was thinking the villain had suited connectors for a flush (not 5-6 exactly, but something like 89 of clubs that is already made and he would unbock the broadway cards for the pairs/ straight)
There's a lesson to be learned from this...if the player is tight but aggressive (TAG) and check raises, he's not usually bluffing (unless has a HUGE combo draw that he's actually betting for the odds that he's going to have the highest equity on the flop and not afraid to get it in). Good players who play tight like this villain did is a solid way of playing, and is common amongst your 20's-40's in age players. I can't fault the caller's logic, but when a tight player is betting into me and then checks it's b/c he's afraid of him not having the "best" hand anymore (i.e, board pairs, another flush card comes) and he's just wanting to get to showdown.
Use this to your favor with your nut hands and bet/call the flop and continue calling until the river and then still pull this jam on him to get value. It's the opposite of playing against a fish because you want to bet into them IMMEDIATELY to extract value as they are still going to call.
Jamming river here is insane.
Yah esp with that board 😂
It’s a perfect bluff candidate hand, caller/Bart just didn’t realize they were bluffing
There's not many worse hands that will call here, maybe QcTh, QcJx or AcJx. Not many better hands that would fold either, except maybe tiny flushes like he had.
@@markwinchester5434You're trying to fold out flushes? Make it make sense please
Literally NOTHING in that hand to me says the villain has an over pair. Like at all. The only 2 hands that made sense was a flush or bluffing with the ace of clubs so given those two hands there’s no point of betting that river. Yeah I don’t like your evaluation of this hand at all Bart.
Agree. The action is so strong hero can have all boats so all flushes go into bluff catch mode on the river pair.
Bro stfu noone cares about your analysis. Y'all gotta stop ruining these videos for me with your spoiling ass comments 😭
Yes I'm salty, no I won't take it back :((
To say that 'NOTHING' says over pair but an Ace of clubs bluff makes sense is so contradictory. Just in case you still haven't worked it out, as played too, he can't NOT have AA with the club. You have smart owned yourself here, and you never had that strong of a hand anyway.
It's blind v blind. Check-raising overpairs on the flop would be completely standard.
Yeah my immediate reaction was to check back river. There really aren't that many overpairs, and overpairs need to have a club in it. It's insane to xr red AA on the flop, so we're just down to 6 combos of AA/QQcx. And those hands don't always call. So the value is really thin given how it's played so far. There's a pretty big chance that someone trap checks a boat or flush here to let AcX blast off, yes they can also do it with AAcx, but there are way more combos of flushes+boats, I think we're getting value owned far more than we're getting value
Same. Intuitively I felt the check-raise line is more indicative of a baby flush. Weird that caller and Bart seemed to look surprised when Bart is usually great at hand reading. Still enjoyed this hand bc I can see the logic of overpairs taking this line which I would have discounted
Ditto
Exactly, although it’s not a thin value if most of the time when called you’re toasted, but simply a losing bet. A thin value bet would be in a case when you’re good about 51% of the time when called :)
Quite surprising to see a professional player suggesting a clearly losing all-in shove.
I would’ve bet small $200-300 and folded to a raise
what poker school did you attend when thinking that overpair must had a club? Ask the teacher for your money back.
Not only does the solver say to check river, it also prefers a check on the flop
I'm checking flop here a lot. Don't see a bet accomplishing much tbh.
The merit is, that you keep the betting lead, get value from inferior hands and have a strong draw if behind. I would probably Mix Here, checking Back against more aggressive opponents more offen and pure betting vs stationy players. I'd say, that in this Spot, the flop is close to a fold when facing this Check/raise. If we're concerned, that villain will raise many bluffs, we shouldnt even bet this Hand class in the first place and bet more polarized. If villain doesnt bluff here and mainly shows up with nut hands, we can fold
Flop is close tho. Calling cant be that bad, but I assume, that we are not getting paid on a Club and a ten might cost us more
Ya, betting flop here IP makes no sense to me either. You're just opening yourself to what happened to the caller
After calling the XR on the flop....I'm folding when he continues on the turn. But if we do go to the river, the hero's hand is not strong enough or weak enough for a polarized shove.
I would be really worried on the turn that a fourth club coming on the river means that I lose all my chips to the nut flush. I don't know if I can think of the clubs as safe outs.
Heck, even a Queen might not be safe if the villain has a flush or even AK (AK with the Ace of Clubs makes sense here).
I would have prob folded that check raise on the flop because you are likely behind in those situations
@@BigRed2 Yeah, it's close. But his check raise is basically a pot sized bet. With the K clubs equity, I would call check raise but be ready to fold turn.
The shove on the river Bart suggested is terrible. Targeting 3 combos (Ac-Ax) which might fold anyways? Hero blocks Kc-Kx (red kings check-raising flop looks like suicide) and discounting dozens of combos of flushes. All of that vs a tight, straightforward player. A suggested blunder both theoretically and practically.
I dont think people realize how "nitty" solvers are BvB. The reason is BvB there a lot more range checks and traps than people think in these configurations. The reason for that is because the ranges are really fucking wide. Wider than humans think and EV edges in these wide configuration are razor thin. This is why playing BvB live is a waste of time.
Not to mention live players rarely 3bet polar in these configurations (like taking the worst Ax, Kx, Qx, Jx) and making it like 250 or something preflop.
All of this leads me to think that no one in live poker actually knows what they are doing. Looking at solver inputs in these positions is more useless than looking at a crystal ball. No one plays x-80% in these spots with weird donk leads on cards.
In spots where players don't know what they're doing is where you find the most +ev. You can set specific ranges of your opponent and node lock your opponent's tendencies in Piosolver.
@@AT-bw4cm for 500-700+ combos? Good luck.
I might have missed it, but I don't think Bart - you had mentioned a small flush. But, this was exactly what I was thinking when he first check raised... TBH, I'm a check behind on river too.
The question about jamming the turn. Can someone please explain to me why that would be a good line?
If you've got 2nd pair with a gutter and 2nd nut flush draw wouldn't that be overplaying your hand? Turning a hand that has loads of showdown value into a bluff. Idk...
Is ACAX folding here?
I had villian on clubs, although not that small. Makes sense with slowing down on the paired board too. I still don't like the river check, but I love the call.
I'd have gone 60% river to catch those overpairs. His check on the river is really strange though.
Overpairs that he may not even call or have in the first place?
People are just massive nits in live.
Bart is so funny. He folds to the river jam 100/100 times
Not sure if you know, but there's a saying that goes "those who can't do, teach". There's a reason Bart doesn't play anymore.
@@thesorrow88 lmfao
@@thesorrow88he’s a documented 7 figure winner. 🤡🤡
Unless the opponents are overvaluing the overpair I don’t know that they’re supposed to call a pot sized bet here. Basically all value got there by the river. I don’t think villain’s play is that weird-he’s showing strength with a check raise flop and a sizing that leaves a pot sized bet behind on the turn. A lot of the hands that would call either made a boat on the river or already were winning with a bigger flush.
I don’t think that hero’s play is awful but it did not seem like many hands he beat would have played the way villain did.
I don’t know if I agree with Bart here. Villain got hero to jam a worse hand with his check on the river.
Or he could have AJ with the A♣️
jam seems awful, you can bet tiny if you think there is a chance that villain will turn his busted Ax draw into a bluff, but other than that its a clear check
I probably would have checked back river with a strong suspicion that I was checking back the winner. The problem is the hands that call that you beat is such a narrow portion of their range that makes it to the river it’s not worth the value bet. I potentially like a small size and fold to a shove
Bart and the caller said that J10o and 2's are both in the callers range. So the villain explanation isn't too off. 9's with the 9 of clubs is likely calling pre, betting flop calling a check raise, calling turn and jamming river.
I think I like a check here for hero. If the villain is a little more straightforward not sure he's calling with a single pair.
I'm late to the party but, I immediately put him on a small flush or jacks when he check raised flop. Because of this, I would've snap checked river. When the board paired he got scared.
Straight and flush on the board...I'm checking this back 100% of the time on the river, regardless of solver results. I can't imagine that's a long-term losing play, but I could definitely be wrong. If you have the best hand, even as Bart states, the majority of the time, how often are you actually getting paid by worse? I think you're limited to the other 10, with the queen of clubs as the only possible winning call (typed it before reveal).
Board is paired too, 3 of a kind is a chump hand here
Why is the river check bad on the villains part? If he jams, what worse hands will the hero call with? If the Hero is known to be on the agressive side, more reason to check with the intention to call.
Where do I get the app?
I'm 3 betting pre so that I have initiative + position. Plus KTo has decent equity vs a BB RFI
From a GTO perspective, I think It's a check-behind on the river if v check-jams his flush. Here, it sounded like v was concerned about being behind. Exploitatively, given their history, it's an all-day shove
River bet was out of line. Overpair would not called river shove.
If H expected an overpair, then why calling flop x/r with an inferior hand? Relying on Kc flush draw was wrong; that might not happen, and in case it does, then club is counterout against an Ac.
KT was a fold on flop against a x/r.
Weird interesting hand. I think in game I would check back flop bet turn if checked to and call reasonable bets on turns and on this river probably bet if checked too and call when bet into. I think checking back flop with a weak middle ish absolute hand strength hand just makes it easy to play. This hand plays easy. When piles go in your beat a lot when the pot is small you just win a lot.
What sizing would you like from the villain’s perspective? I think 40% pot then fold to a jam since the only hands I see the villain losing to as played are JTo, Ace/King rag flushes, but beats bricked flush draws, Jx, 10x, KQ, 78s
I don't like the suggestion that hero shove the turn. A tighter villain really doesn't have many check-raise bluffs on the flop (AK/AQ/KQ with a club?) but they have a ton of value. On the turn, hero is behind to villain's entire value-range and villain probably won't be folding one pair hands like QQc or AAc. I don't think there's enough air, or value that villain is folding, for the shove to be profitable.
In the small Stakes I play.. one- three you only get called On The River by better hands .. you may get called by worse hands if you've got small for value. If you go all in and you are called you are beat
I really like Josh. He's obviously a thinking player. How does he describe villain? Straightforward, tight, competent, good player. The he & Bart discuss villain check-raising AcXx on this flop. So now I'm lost. To be honest, when the X/R came I thought about AJ with club, AA with club, or a flush. I'd never put the described villain on just a dry ace clubs.
I honestly question how great the call was on flop. Without our king high flush draw how strong are we? If villain has either a flush or the ace of clubs - how badly are we praying for a 4th club to hit? As to the river play; I'm guilty of missing value in this kind of spot because I'm never jamming here & I'm certainly not bet-folding $500 here either.
The flop check-raise on a monotone board generally either means a semi-bluff with the Ace-high draw or a made hand that doesn't want to get drawn out on (a set or lower flush). Theres no way top pair is good here if it isn't the semi-bluff (that includes that top pair becoming trips on a later street like it did here). That being said, I would have called on the flop because I had the King high draw and then re-assessed on the turn depending on whether or not the 4th club hit. If it did hit, i would have gone into calldown mode and hoped I wasn't up against the nuts, paying it off if i was. If it didn't hit, i would have folded to the turn bet because i definitely wouldn't be getting the price to draw again with one card to come and if hes continuing to tell his story in that manner, its pretty believable.
River absolutely should just have been a checkback as played. I'm not even sure how many small flushes we expect Villain to even have that we can scare off with a shove if he's gonna call down with 56c. I don't expect we'll be called by a weaker-T except by maybe something like QT with Qc, but there's only one combo of that available. Hands like KJ or AJ may call some times, but are likely to fold. AT probably calls some frequency and we lose. Feels way too much like a scenario where we rarely get a call from a hand we beat, and also likely don't fold out enough hands that beat us.
We're not shoving to make a flush fold. Of course a flush never folds.
I don’t like the flop bet. The Insta check raise from guy on the tighter side is why
My immediate river thought is that he's going for a check raise to get some value out of you when you missed (so you might bluff when you'd fold to a bet) or have a T or KQ. Maybe going for a check call with a flush just because you can so easily have JT, a bigger flush if he's not nutted, etc. I'm nitty checking back against a tight player all day or maybe going very small if I think he hates to fold overpairs.
If villain thinks hero missed, why would he ever go for a check raise?
@@jeremyhahn3612 you go for a check raise hoping he bluffs. He's not going to call the raise, obviously, but his bet itself is more value than you get betting yourself.
Check back the river. Your play shows a strong hand so he won't call with an over pair, any other call beats you. There is no point for value bet here.
check back river. never getting called by worse. before the reveal i guess V has a flush and is scared of FH.
and good chance hes not folding to a bet. or he has A of clubs x with no flush and isnt calling anything
I wouldn't be that confident that you're good when tight villain tank calls. Tighter players might tank call with weak straights, lower made flushes , A 10 and even pocket 2s.
Great call.
It’s a really big overplay river
The only call you might get here to win is if villain had AcJx
I guessed correctly before the reveal. This smelt like the villain had a flush and was scared when the board paired because you could have a boat now. People don't typically raise a monotone board w an overpaid..esp chk raise.
If he’s tight why call bluff caters if he’s under bluffing the exploit is to fold all your bluff catchers. River check makes total sense from villain if hero is calling this hand he’s probably calling most Ac that’s going to be bluffing a lot. Hard for get called bye worse if he just jams river himself
Hero keeps saying villain is a tighter guy and straightforward.
Fold flop...just fold it once you get raised.
Villain isn't finding the Ac bluffs
Hero value-owned himself. Who says poker is dead?
This guy have similar voice to poker coaching coach Assasinato imo.
He is raising flop with A clubs all day he blocks nuts
The villain isn't going to check raise the Flop with an obvious flush draw out there like that with just an overpair imo if you guys say he's a nit...a nit wouldn't be that aggressive and would be afraid of the flush..hell this guy almost folded the flush anyway 😂
If he tank called a baby flush, he definitely wouldn't have called with a pair. There for, bad play; know your enemy.
I would've bet like $500 on the river. I don't think overpairs are calling an all-in.
MGM is a great lil spot in MASS. I play 1:2 there
Once you call turn..what are you even hoping for? Litterally could be drawing dead already on the turn. If I call turn, Im just hoping to hit a flush and hope to get to show down cheaply. 3 tens aint that good on this board. 😅
He clearly should have checked back - the ten is a set up card. You made trips. He clearly flopped a small flush. Nothing in this configuration implies over pair. He either had 2-2 or a small flush.
He beats nothing that’s gonna call. So many boats straights and flushes available he’s not calling with a pair.
My perception is that callers are down about 300k when they go for thin value in these spots. Somebody run the numbers! 😂 Most regular players aren't calling down with worse on this run out. The only hand that might is 10, x worse kicker?
Check the river, nothing you beat calls
River is a bit greedy
Have to check the river , losing to too many hands .. Even losing to A-10… 10-J… straights High and low.. Oh and a flush, you have to check back 100 percent
It sounds like the dude in a stagecoach going west to stake his claim.
Why not bet $550 at the end and fold if villain jams.
Is this the guy that owns a convenience store and makes TikTok’s about it? Sounds exactly like him😅
I think I'm shoving river
How has V an OP here??
Bart how did you rate this call a 9.5 out of 10 and give advice where the whole chat knows is no good
What bet size should you take on the flop on a monotone board with two broadway cards when it's big blind vs straddle? Is 30% pot the right size? I would expect a bigger bet on the flop.
What is this advice Bart like the whole chat knows this was off. You're supposed to be better than us. And Nate saying he would raise on the turn wtf is that lol
SPOILER BLOCKER 😭❤
LIKE THIS IF YOU TIRED OF THE TOP COMMENT YOU SEE IMMEDIATELY RUINING THE HAND FOR YOU
I either like a small bet on river or a check back.