Yeah as someone who is kinda tired of the clunkiness of Void Thunder and the ineffectiveness of it's two 4 cost echoes, I went with Lingering Tunes for my Xiangli Yao, and boy is he fun as hell to play. I never used Mech Abomination before so you can imagine my pleasant surprise when it turned out to be a summon type echo instead of a transformation type, which also hits every single enemy in its radius rather than being single target while *also* hitting harder than I expected. Like yeah I know I can get *sliiiightly* higher damager numbers with void thunder, but lingering tunes just makes playing him much more fun cuz I don't have to jump through any hoops to make ti work while having a MUCH better 4 cost echo
you get slightly better numbers with lingering tunes, period. unless you are talking about damage per screenshot for his ult, but full rotation does more dps for lt than vt
@sayyidabb1898 nah overall its only like a 3% damage difference between the two at their best. Absolutely not worth the sacrifice of the more fun playstyle of Lingering Tunes imo. Tho im also seeing that LT is straight up better for damage too but regardless they're so close together in damage you can’t go wrong with LT
Whatever it is, I just like that we have a character who can actually use lingering tunes and seems reasonable. This set felt out of place for me at first but now its shining
I honestly went with LT, just because I like the main echo more. Whether I lose some %in dmg, as long as it is not like a 10% dmg loss I dont really care. It's something new and fresh to stay engaged while waiting for new content. Great chracter and great video.
LT for Hypercarry, VT for quickswap or Double DPS. We don't have a lot of ATK buffing characters so majority of your numbers are from DMG%, so LT scales well when Xiangli is getting hyperbuffed.
this, i use XY with VT if i pair him with Changli for quickswap combo, its ofc better than using lingering tunes, playing him with Yin Lin tho ofc lingering tunes is miles better
Electro Sonata Set for an Electro Character... Simple as That. Even though the Void Thunder's buff is really difficult to acquire, it "should" be the best option. Since Xiangli cannot use a Heavy ATK and Resonance Skill during his Liberation, lingering tunes might be better. But... I think we can agree that most of us have a built Void Thunder Set from Calcharo which we all gave Xiangli 😂
If Kuro follows the trend of PGR, VT will be reworked. In PGR, they reworked outdated memory sets and those updates made ghe outdated sets meta for tanks. If they follow through with Wuwa, somehow I hope they rework VT because VT really is a pain to use just to get the 5pc bonus.
I prefer Lingering over Void bc the 4* LT echo is a summon. Both the memphis are transform and are on top of that the worst 4* echoes so far in the game. You're better off using the 3* flautist as your main echo if you want to use void.. But using flautist and swap is kinda tricky to do
I… actually use a split of both! Which sounds crazy I know, but I farmed Void Thunder for him, heard Lingering Tunes was better, and started refarming for a second time… I haven’t finished yet so I’ve settled for just picking my best pieces from both sets which honestly has been working great for me so far- so I’m mostly fine with it haha! Suboptimal yes, but he already does enough damage as is it doesn’t concern me too much, I mostly play for the story anyways.
Same bro i have god rolls on two of the sets i even went ful atk on the main and it had god rolls not a single bad roll i ended up with x2 from both and a random one and k have 2300 atk , 74% crit rate , 265% crit dmg , 130% er on him
This might be the best option, as with both playstyles (quickswap and main on-field DPS) you are getting benefits from two 2-piece effects. Which double-dip into each other. But I wish we had VT version of "drop and forget" echo. I'm thinking when we get Lightning Rover is when one will drop :)
I'll stick to void like many cause refarming a new set aside from the pain of getting the right subs involves credits and other materials that we just don't have in abundance. Being inefficient is actually the most efficient way to go.
VT doesn't care if the Heavy Attack hits or not, so you can just buffer a heavy attack and immediately cancel the start up with his Liberation(unironically kara cancelling). You can get the full VT effect right before his strongest rotation.
That's definitely possible, but my problem with using heavy->liberation is that the time you spend doing the basic into heavy eats into the outro skill buff uptime of your subdps. The buff from Yinlin or Jianxin is far more powerful than the buff from 1 stack of void Thunder, so if you use this method, you're increasing the uptime on Void Thunder's buff but sacrificing uptime on your outro skill buff, which is a terrible trade in my eyes so I don't recommend it in my videos.
@@saintontasthere’s a couple points that you can buffer a heavy attack input during another animation so that you don’t have to do the basic attack for it, only the HA comes out Js
@@saintontas You can do it off of any animation: so intro, swap in attack, non-lib forte etc. Leaves a lot of room open for swap cancel shenanigan's too.
@@philipblaskowski5244 If that's the case, I'd probably prefer a pre-rotation (Yinlin at 90+% concerto) cycle on Xiangli that goes like: Res skill->Heavy->Echo swap cancel to Yinlin to top her off and then swap onto Xiangli for an immediate ult.
Let's be real here, only why most people go for void thunder set is because they built Calcharo and there wasn't any other electro character on release at that time besides Yuanwu and he only scales with defence, Yinlin would come out as a sub DPS, works well on electro and Moonlit. I'd say do what you do like, but lingering tunes for me cuz Xiangli doesn't use heavy attacks and I like not reliant on switch strat too often, making my Xiangli man a dps
yeah but its also true that with changli or encore. if your going to use QS with xiangli VT is way better and have more dmg time wise. while LN with yinlin is strong VT QS have more dmg per second.
I really just picked Lingering Tunes simply because of its 4 Cost. I think the added convenience and raw damage of Mech Abomination (around 700% atk as electro per cast) is already enough for it to be justified even when playing with a dual dps team. I may be losing my sonata set buff but I ain't losing my mind trying to activate my echo buff.
The thing is most of the teams in Wuwa are quick swap teams and Xiangli feels like the same even if you wanna give him LT set and make him stay on field it's just for those 5 or 6 seconds you have to swap back again and do all the sub dps stuff.. I've tried it myself (Yao and Changli team) so I can say quick swap kills enemies faster no matter bosses or regular mobs so VT fits well on him.. if you are forced to stay on field with him longer that's a potential loss.
True, it's almost impossible to clear higher tower of adversity with hyper carries or using a character that spends so many seconds on field. I used to play verina, yinlin changli team like that before and I could barely clear lvl 90 side tower with an electro or fusion buff but recently tried just changli and yinlin playing quickswap and I cleared the middle lvl 100 tower easily without even needing verina. Quickswap is always better
@@Fact_Check12 yup I've tried both teams with yao (Yinlin verina, Jianxin verina) the numbers look bigger but the damage per second is not that great and it becomes tedious after you are done with the Yao liberation.. In the other hand Changli quick swap team with him kills way faster than a hypercarrry team even though the numbers aren't bigger but the damage per second is way much more than a hypercarrry so I don't think on field Yao is worth it.. if someone wants to play hypercarrry Jinhsi or Jiyan would be a great choice for them
something I notice is that Yinlin buff also last only for 14 seconds. so if you pair Yinlin and Xiangli Yao you can just get the buff, pop ult and then play until Yinlin buff is off repeat rotation
many people commented here that they used 2p+2p. just calculated briefly and looks like 2p+2p is equal to Lingering Tunes 4p set. Void Thunder 4p set gives 17% more dmg bonus which is 2-3 substats. so, 2p+2p set is on par with VT set when have 2 more substats (or 1 cr/cd substat)
@@NoctisStrife88 for 15-18 seconds XY rotation they are the same in dmg. but 2p+2p can be used in quick swap teams and easier to get more substats so overall much preferred. VT 4p slightly better if you have resources to farm this set
Im staying optimistic about VT, just waiting for a new 4-cost that doesnt give bad bonuses like Tempest, or takes up alot of time like Thundering, and the 5 piece activation clause needs a little change.
I main xiangli yao S2/R1 and have both LT and VT here are my thoughts VT + Thundering mephis will give you the highest liberation dmg. You need to proc Rskill, HA, and echo before casting his liberation. Kuro is bad at sentence structures ngl. The key term in activating the VT buff is that you only need to input rskill and HA. You dont need to hit the enemy with it. So, after doing intro, press rskill, 1 HA and since XLY's HA has two animations (charge and uppercut), immediately cut the 2nd animation using tempest mephis, and the moment you memphis' 6th attacl hits the enemy, dash cancel and cast his ult. Since this is wuwa, being a sweaty player is just as valid if not higher than being a brainded player. VT is the meta for XLY if he is S0-S4 and you use him in a quickswap rotation and if your sub dps is decently built for ToA, it can rival the dmg of a XYL hypercarry rotation LT very slightly beats VT by 2-3% if both echo sets have almost similar crit values, attribute dmg, and liberation dmg. It slightly beats VT when it comes to hypercarry dmg beyond his ult (Forte, and liberation skill and basic attacks). This also is due to mech abomination being a summon unit and can deal quadratic dmg. So, it works best against multiple enemies, and hypercarry team comp situations. It only becomes a definitive BiS echo set for XLY if XLY is S5. Since S5 increases your outro dmg by 222% plus mech abomination buff, XLY's final outro dmg multiplier is 519% which is a Lvl 8-ish calcharo reso liberation. TLDR -In Overall dmg, LT very slightly beats VT at 2-3% (Due to how tempest mephis takes a while to activate the buff) and at S0-S4. -When it comes to liberation dmg, VT wins -When it comes to quickswap, VT wins -For hypercarry, LT wins -At S5, LT is significantly better -In the end, pick whichever substats and main stat is better. A powerful 2pc of each will always beat a mid 5 set echo stat
I love mr jack in the box man's videos. Everyone else in gacha games are typically saying misleading garbage or are yap yap boring theorycraft videos, this man is a legend.
I managed to achieve 80% crit rate through void thunder set and it became 100% crit rate through his weapon. Don't feel like changing changing the set now coz of crit 😅
I just pop a heavy attack along with the tempest memphis during the setup rotation and before I outro to him. Then, do a resonance skill into liberation for full buffs.
i'm using a mix of those two, unconditional permanent 10% of each buff. On top of that, it's easier to mix with perfect cost-1 echo of a third set, and can re-use 2 or 3 of ATK set on another characters with different element. Downside is, it has 20% less atk than electro set ( or 2 roll of atk on substat). BUT, we have a lot of atk from verina or maybe new healer too, so in return i can dish out 250k quick ulti on tower Scar with my c0r1 yao.
I've tried some of the best echo set for him. My verdict is lingering tunes is great for hypercarry with long field time, VT and 2VT+2LT is great for quickswap.
People it's easy: LT if you have his weapon and want to play hypercarry. Anything else VT, the damage difference is only worth the comfort in the previous scenario but anything else the VT outdamages.
Grind only one lingering tunes set with 2 Atk% elites. Use it for every dps character. Never have to farm another dps echo set. Universal > B.I.S with 10%~ more dmg. That being said I'll still grind every attribute set because very gud game :D
That won't help to clear higher TOA or hologram higher levels because you'll eventually need good substats for that and substat requirements for characters are different even if they are dps characters
@@Fact_Check12 Crit rate, Crit Damage, Atk% and flat atk are all universal and very few people will keep grinding past that for better subs, getting a bit extra dmg bonus doesn't make that big of a difference. Clearing any floor in ToA in 1 minute vs 2 minutes still gives max rewards and you have 5 whole minutes to kill hologram. Edit: I'm have square brain and I am an idiot. I made some calculations and a full atk build with no damage bonus is around 40-50% weaker then one with damage bonus. It's probably still possible to beat ToA with a build like this, since with a proper build I can clear the tougher floors in 50-70 seconds (with a full team), but it would be a lot harder.
@@nicksm2976 good thing you said "with a full team" meaning that lingering tunes which buffs with field time will fall off immensely hard. It is also IMPOSSIBLE to clear middle tower lvl 2 with 3 stars without a character focused echo distribution solo even if it's jhinsi. You can't even clear lvl 4 side tower with 3 stars unless the tower has the correspondence elemental buff
If only it were that simple... Using 2 heavy attacks wont get you the full effect. You must do a heavy attack and skill. The stacks are independant of eachother. Which means it becomes clunky on XY when you eventually hit his forte skill, because it will launch him into the air and you cant do his liberation while air borne. That meams LT isnt just best in terms of numbers. Its best for his rotations as well.
Another upside to LT is that the set can be shared on any other resonator so dont have to farm it twice altho some stats may not be as good on other characters. This doesnt go for attribute bonus 3 cost but the other 3 pieces are transferable
I think the lingering tunes will be great for a future DPS who scales heavily on attack buffs. The electro set seems to be the most viable at the moment and even if you can't get the full buff because you forgot to use a heavy attack it's still a good set and it's great for quick swap playstyle which most of us are running him with yinlin so u gonna wanna switch out as frequently
I don't think Yinlin is actually a great quick swap candidate with him. Her outro is too strong on him to give up just to swap back to Yinlin, so that should actually be the team where lingering tunes works the best
@@DoctorQcumber That's very true. The main reason why Calcharo was played in quickswap with Yinlin is because Calch's liberation rotation is so prone to interruption that quickswaps were necessary to deal damage without taking massive hits. Xiangli has none of those problems, so a moonlit set on Yinlin with no quickswapping during Xiangli's liberation rotation is the way to go.
The main problem with Thundering and Tempest Mephis' is that Kuro decided "we're going to give players two 'options' for a 4-cost echo, except one will obviously be superior to the other, and neither of them are summons."
I honestly think both echoes kind of suck. 1. Thundering mephis takes 3-5x the time of every other echo skill to use. Insane DPS loss in every circumstance 2. Tempest Mephis has a garbage heavy attack bonus that NO electro unit on the roster uses. Calcharo, Yinlin, Yuanwu, and Xiangli have pretty much no noticeable increase in their rotation damage from its bonus, but it's the only option because of the DPS loss on the Thundering one.
@@saintontas I agree, but I didn't say either were good, just that one was clearly superior to the other. I've found at least for my playstyle, I much prefer the "drop and forget about it" nature of summon echoes. Bad effects of the Mephis' aside, the decision to make both 4 cost echoes for their respective element the same kind, transformative, took away a bit of player's freedom to experiment. Otherwise we're forced to either choose to use a lower cost main echo, or avoid the set entirely. Which is pretty much what I'm doing with Lingering Tunes. In my opinion, what good balancing would look like is if they exchanged field time of transformations for more power than the summons, and having the freedom to choose between which better suits your play. And maybe some comps will prefer one echo over the other by the numbers anyway, but even then players can choose the sub optimal echo in the name of what feels good and fun, or at least smooth.
I'm trying make lingering tune set with 4 cost crit, two 3 cost ATK%, and two 1 cost ATK% all with double crit sub stats. This would be decent place holder until im done building BIS echo for future dps characters i might get later. Its a hassle to trying to build new echo set every patch, when I can already clear 30 TOA with the characters i already have right now. From my rough understanding lingering tune set performs 90% - 105% compared to most characters' BIS echo set, and 2 ATK% pieces performs 10% - 20% less compare to BIS 3 cost echos. These are downsides that are acceptable in my perspective, and could be overcome by team building and gameplay.
@@saiavabel6076 based on recent observation with lot of XY's signature weapon vs battle pass weapon comparison videos, the most important damage numbers seem to weigh more on combinations of based number on weapon level + character level + talent levels than echos. Of course BIS echo set with high roll helps, but I think its more healthier to find ways to stress less on echo building just to 3x ~ 4x your multipliers. Especially when 1.5x ~ 2x with average echo rolls are enough clear 30 clear TOA.
I still don't understand, considering Void thunder is easy to trigger the bonus and last for 15 seconds. When you intro (0 Forte): HA - cancel into Liberation -> E -> Full Buff. If His Forte is full during after Intro: Forte E -> Liberation -> E -> Full Buff. Am I missing something?
I like LT more and don’t want to bother farming VT anymore until there’s a new electro 4 cost and more electro echoes in general. VT is better for quick swap, but I’m cool using him with Yinlin for now.
2 piece sets of both and a 5th offpiece echo. Gives so much more breathing room and i don't have to farm enddlessly for a good 5 set or worry about requirements.
While I do mostly use Yao on premium electro team, I still use void>lingering because I love quick swapping between him and Yinlin. And I’m too lazy to farm a new echo set with the current state of echo building
I've just finished building VT(62/235 with 2,2k attack) so I'm good for now. After I lvl him up to 90 lvl and try him out and if I'll see I miss damage I'll go for LT cuz I don't really swap him off that often tbh
I'm frustrated as I only need 1, 3 cost echo with either Atk% or electro damage % but after 2 hours of farming in the overworld and in the tacet field I just gave up💀
I did the 1Head play ever since Yinlin got announced which is I saw team with 2 lightning -> I farm VT. So by now I have 2 good VT crit sets. I wonder if many non-guidereaders did this
I tried building a 43311 Electro set for him.1) Elite class echo were so painfully grindy for the right main electro damage bonus stat that its unbearable. 2) I literally got the worst substats imaginable, one of them rolled out to a 6.9% crt rate then just def, hp, hp%, flat def & the other one did not have any ER or any crt stat so i decided to scrap it & moved to Lingering tunes set & this time i have 63.9% crt rate with 232% crt damage with 142% Er. This set is 43311 where one 3 cost has Electro bonus main stat & the other 3 cost has ER as main coz its too hard to find matching main stat on 3 costs echo. My Xiangli Yao is at lvl70 with his signature weapon & at UL 45
I really dont like the 2 main echoes for VT but I had some pretty insane rolls on all my substat echoes so I stuck with it, I think im gonna switch to LT instead. Hopefully my rolls will be lucky like my VT ones
I use my XO with changli, for a quick swap thus I use the void thunder set. Because you just gotta do resonance skill 2 times and he does it all the time.
Tbh I found the Memphis more clunky on Yao than on calcharo which is crazy cause I can just use the echo skill in between calcharo attacks to generate the buffs. Also since mercy is a heavy attack and not liberation dmg it makes VT so good on him For Yao it was too clunky, even with tempest. I might have skill issue yes but I find it easier using Memphis on calcharo and yinlin than Yao so in my opinion I just went for lingering instead. With the fact that LT doesn’t makes you to try to remember to use a heavy before liberation then it’s obvious which one is better for “convenience”.
i personally more like lingering tune because i really bad at quick swapping. and full set is easier buff to get by just stay on field. also i dont have hes main weapon, so giving more atk is more understanding for me.
Well i have well-built sets of both To sum up my experience If you haven't already farmed for VT with memphis, for let's say Calcharo, go for Lingering tunes LT with mech has overall greater dmg output, and the playstyle is just better, both memphises are annoying and take up time, while you just need to click once for Mech If you have a VT with memphis set with one in a million substats, then you can go for it instead of LT and mech But still i recommend making a LT set because if you don't use it on XY, there will be a character whose best Set would be LT, better to farm and utilize it right now instead of wasting your time in the future
for now i will stay VT set from my calcharo. my XY still need some upgrade in forte, level, and the weapon. later if i already max all forte, weapon, and level, i will try to farm LT.
Unfortunatly for me i farm VT echoes and i invested so much in them to the point where every echo has resonance liberation dmg bonus with good sub stats.. also with crit dmg and crite rate sub stats at max numbers so yeah it's hard for me to change now my echoes are perfectly build lol
I had built a electro lingering tunes set for some reason, it was on my yin lin, imagine my surprise when he came out lol. Ez echo swap with Xiangli Yao xD
So this video is based on the assumption that everyone has his signature weapon and not others like abyss surges which has atk as substats? Which can be bad for LT which also buff atk. Also if used with yinlin, yaoyao can't switch off-field either way or lose yinlin's buff. So many factors that will affect which set to use. Not just which set is better.
Gonna build LT in the future thats fs after shorekeeper, rn even with VT i can clear aix in toa under a minute, so its not that necessary, but definitely will build one 😊
That's definitely a feel-bad moment for Lingering Tunes users. With a MV of 1466% it sucks not having the full lingering tunes buff unless you sandbag your rotation like a madman
man i didnt know VT was this tedious to use i know thundering mephis was bad so i avoided it and took tempest mephis as my 4 cost but i didnt notice the obnoxious buff proc requirement i was even so happy i got double crit with semi decent rolls on other sub stats on every echo but its annoying to have to conciously HA cancel to get max buff ill try to get LT set leveled as well since it's a more universal set it should be useful across charactersbut i feel like i used all my luck to get good rolls on VT now im using scraps to level LT
The thing is, just because it’s a bad for cost doesn’t mean you should go for the other one, they’re both not good. I recommend if you’re using VT use 1 or a 3 cost as your main echo
I'm just now getting to doing echoes for him and might actually go lingering tunes, right now I've just had him on a void thunder set I'd previously had equipped on Yinlin from when i had a Jinhsi Yinlin team. however long ago that was. And I've yet to level up any of the moonlit clouds echoes I've now given her either so it is off to the tacet fields I go I guess. I've been playing the unconventional route of playing everything as one team and switching it once i max out the intimacy thing, so now I've ended up with Xiangli Yao and Taogi together which. Works? I honestly spend more time as Taoqi than Xiangli, I just find her fun to play and she doesn't do bad at damage either. I don't really play the tower, just playing to build every single character in the game one by one and slowly getting down the list. After this team is probably going to be an Encore focused team bc I have her sitting at level 70 having done nothing with her, maybe I'll bring Yangyang out for fun, not sure. Before this it was a Chixia-Changli dual dps team that somehow left me liking Chixia's gameplay better than Changli's so i guess i never know, also Chixia is better in depths of the illusive realm than i ever expected her to be considering I didn't even level her up until building her to go alongside Changli
Cant you just E E to activate it all again? Also im pretty sure that those hypercarry teams with yinlin finish off his 3 empowered strikes in 15 seconds
From every resource ive read / watched, lingering tunes is ~3% stronger than void thunder and once a faster attacking 4 cost void thunder echo is released lingering tunes will be surpassed
Yeah as someone who is kinda tired of the clunkiness of Void Thunder and the ineffectiveness of it's two 4 cost echoes, I went with Lingering Tunes for my Xiangli Yao, and boy is he fun as hell to play. I never used Mech Abomination before so you can imagine my pleasant surprise when it turned out to be a summon type echo instead of a transformation type, which also hits every single enemy in its radius rather than being single target while *also* hitting harder than I expected.
Like yeah I know I can get *sliiiightly* higher damager numbers with void thunder, but lingering tunes just makes playing him much more fun cuz I don't have to jump through any hoops to make ti work while having a MUCH better 4 cost echo
you get slightly better numbers with lingering tunes, period. unless you are talking about damage per screenshot for his ult, but full rotation does more dps for lt than vt
@@quevater2470 preach, yellow ball
i Already build lingering tunes so should i stick to it then?.yeah its fun echo,,my resources dried up,,hope its not lose to much to void thunder.
Same, mech abomination is the reason why im farming lingering
@sayyidabb1898 nah overall its only like a 3% damage difference between the two at their best. Absolutely not worth the sacrifice of the more fun playstyle of Lingering Tunes imo. Tho im also seeing that LT is straight up better for damage too but regardless they're so close together in damage you can’t go wrong with LT
Whatever it is, I just like that we have a character who can actually use lingering tunes and seems reasonable. This set felt out of place for me at first but now its shining
To be fair, every other limited DPS's indisputable BiS is their attribute damage set, so it comes as a bit of a surprise
@@saintontas yeahh exactly the same surprise for me
I threw away all my lingering tunes echoes because I couldn't imagine it being BiS on someone. RIP
This set suck , just useable because void thunder is more suck than it 😂
All characters with dps outro are legitimate lingering tunes users
Lingering for Main DPS, Void Thunder for Quickswap.
Also Rejuvenating Glow and the 3-star healing gauntlet if you're crazy enough.
No
REJUVENATING GLOW XIANGLU YAO MENTIONED 🗣️🗣️‼️💯🔥🔥💥💥💥💥
me and my homies LOVE complete disregard for base kits
@@polaroydereal, S6 Verina main dps, Jinhsi moonlit set or someone else doesn’t matter, Yao on healer, best team frfr
I honestly went with LT, just because I like the main echo more. Whether I lose some %in dmg, as long as it is not like a 10% dmg loss I dont really care. It's something new and fresh to stay engaged while waiting for new content.
Great chracter and great video.
LT for Hypercarry, VT for quickswap or Double DPS. We don't have a lot of ATK buffing characters so majority of your numbers are from DMG%, so LT scales well when Xiangli is getting hyperbuffed.
It's fair to note that VT is quite literally 2-3% worse than LT in hypercarry, while LT is unusable in any team outside hypercarry.
this, i use XY with VT if i pair him with Changli for quickswap combo, its ofc better than using lingering tunes, playing him with Yin Lin tho ofc lingering tunes is miles better
Electro Sonata Set for an Electro Character... Simple as That. Even though the Void Thunder's buff is really difficult to acquire, it "should" be the best option. Since Xiangli cannot use a Heavy ATK and Resonance Skill during his Liberation, lingering tunes might be better. But... I think we can agree that most of us have a built Void Thunder Set from Calcharo which we all gave Xiangli 😂
he can use resonance skill in ult just pop heavy before ult and you get the full buff
@@vegitoblue6969nah
@@vegitoblue6969Well... You can't do anything after the Buff goes off 🥲
Or maybe u just can use resonance skill and charge atack before ult and VOAILA, the buff is active c:
Wdym he can't? All of his special resonance skills are still resonance skills, but the damage counts as burst damage.
Debate also thrives ingame, his trailer and story feature Mech Abomination, but he ascends with Tempest Mephis mats.
Devs cooked, loving it 😊
If Kuro follows the trend of PGR, VT will be reworked. In PGR, they reworked outdated memory sets and those updates made ghe outdated sets meta for tanks. If they follow through with Wuwa, somehow I hope they rework VT because VT really is a pain to use just to get the 5pc bonus.
They should update Calcharo coz I don't want to use medium size male as main DPS.
I prefer Lingering over Void bc the 4* LT echo is a summon. Both the memphis are transform and are on top of that the worst 4* echoes so far in the game. You're better off using the 3* flautist as your main echo if you want to use void.. But using flautist and swap is kinda tricky to do
Also lt with almost no anumation hit 40-50k dmg big aoe
i lost xiangli yaos event after getting back 1 day after...and pulling for him using my guarentee. THATS THE PAIN
your video intros are the best ive ever seen
I… actually use a split of both! Which sounds crazy I know, but I farmed Void Thunder for him, heard Lingering Tunes was better, and started refarming for a second time… I haven’t finished yet so I’ve settled for just picking my best pieces from both sets which honestly has been working great for me so far- so I’m mostly fine with it haha! Suboptimal yes, but he already does enough damage as is it doesn’t concern me too much, I mostly play for the story anyways.
Same bro i have god rolls on two of the sets i even went ful atk on the main and it had god rolls not a single bad roll i ended up with x2 from both and a random one and k have 2300 atk , 74% crit rate , 265% crit dmg , 130% er on him
@@sylvarixreaper damm thats really good, gimme some bro
This might be the best option, as with both playstyles (quickswap and main on-field DPS) you are getting benefits from two 2-piece effects. Which double-dip into each other.
But I wish we had VT version of "drop and forget" echo. I'm thinking when we get Lightning Rover is when one will drop :)
@@sylvarixreaper It's really impressive!
I'll stick to void like many cause refarming a new set aside from the pain of getting the right subs involves credits and other materials that we just don't have in abundance. Being inefficient is actually the most efficient way to go.
VT doesn't care if the Heavy Attack hits or not, so you can just buffer a heavy attack and immediately cancel the start up with his Liberation(unironically kara cancelling). You can get the full VT effect right before his strongest rotation.
That's definitely possible, but my problem with using heavy->liberation is that the time you spend doing the basic into heavy eats into the outro skill buff uptime of your subdps.
The buff from Yinlin or Jianxin is far more powerful than the buff from 1 stack of void Thunder, so if you use this method, you're increasing the uptime on Void Thunder's buff but sacrificing uptime on your outro skill buff, which is a terrible trade in my eyes so I don't recommend it in my videos.
@@saintontasthere’s a couple points that you can buffer a heavy attack input during another animation so that you don’t have to do the basic attack for it, only the HA comes out
Js
@@BabaYaga0713 I'll look into this
@@saintontas You can do it off of any animation: so intro, swap in attack, non-lib forte etc. Leaves a lot of room open for swap cancel shenanigan's too.
@@philipblaskowski5244 If that's the case, I'd probably prefer a pre-rotation (Yinlin at 90+% concerto) cycle on Xiangli that goes like:
Res skill->Heavy->Echo swap cancel to Yinlin to top her off and then swap onto Xiangli for an immediate ult.
Let's be real here, only why most people go for void thunder set is because they built Calcharo and there wasn't any other electro character on release at that time besides Yuanwu and he only scales with defence, Yinlin would come out as a sub DPS, works well on electro and Moonlit. I'd say do what you do like, but lingering tunes for me cuz Xiangli doesn't use heavy attacks and I like not reliant on switch strat too often, making my Xiangli man a dps
yeah but its also true that with changli or encore. if your going to use QS with xiangli VT is way better and have more dmg time wise. while LN with yinlin is strong VT QS have more dmg per second.
I really just picked Lingering Tunes simply because of its 4 Cost. I think the added convenience and raw damage of Mech Abomination (around 700% atk as electro per cast) is already enough for it to be justified even when playing with a dual dps team.
I may be losing my sonata set buff but I ain't losing my mind trying to activate my echo buff.
The thing is most of the teams in Wuwa are quick swap teams and Xiangli feels like the same even if you wanna give him LT set and make him stay on field it's just for those 5 or 6 seconds you have to swap back again and do all the sub dps stuff.. I've tried it myself (Yao and Changli team) so I can say quick swap kills enemies faster no matter bosses or regular mobs so VT fits well on him.. if you are forced to stay on field with him longer that's a potential loss.
True, it's almost impossible to clear higher tower of adversity with hyper carries or using a character that spends so many seconds on field. I used to play verina, yinlin changli team like that before and I could barely clear lvl 90 side tower with an electro or fusion buff but recently tried just changli and yinlin playing quickswap and I cleared the middle lvl 100 tower easily without even needing verina. Quickswap is always better
@@Fact_Check12 yup I've tried both teams with yao (Yinlin verina, Jianxin verina) the numbers look bigger but the damage per second is not that great and it becomes tedious after you are done with the Yao liberation.. In the other hand Changli quick swap team with him kills way faster than a hypercarrry team even though the numbers aren't bigger but the damage per second is way much more than a hypercarrry so I don't think on field Yao is worth it.. if someone wants to play hypercarrry Jinhsi or Jiyan would be a great choice for them
something I notice is that Yinlin buff also last only for 14 seconds. so if you pair Yinlin and Xiangli Yao you can just get the buff, pop ult and then play until Yinlin buff is off repeat rotation
many people commented here that they used 2p+2p. just calculated briefly and looks like 2p+2p is equal to Lingering Tunes 4p set. Void Thunder 4p set gives 17% more dmg bonus which is 2-3 substats. so, 2p+2p set is on par with VT set when have 2 more substats (or 1 cr/cd substat)
So is 4pc lingering tunes better or 2pc+2pc
@@NoctisStrife88 for 15-18 seconds XY rotation they are the same in dmg. but 2p+2p can be used in quick swap teams and easier to get more substats so overall much preferred. VT 4p slightly better if you have resources to farm this set
@@yurcchello thanks bro. Lol ima grind both and compare
thx for this vid. will help in deciding the echo set ill use.
Im staying optimistic about VT, just waiting for a new 4-cost that doesnt give bad bonuses like Tempest, or takes up alot of time like Thundering, and the 5 piece activation clause needs a little change.
Finally
Lingering tone shine time
I main xiangli yao S2/R1 and have both LT and VT here are my thoughts
VT + Thundering mephis will give you the highest liberation dmg. You need to proc Rskill, HA, and echo before casting his liberation. Kuro is bad at sentence structures ngl. The key term in activating the VT buff is that you only need to input rskill and HA. You dont need to hit the enemy with it. So, after doing intro, press rskill, 1 HA and since XLY's HA has two animations (charge and uppercut), immediately cut the 2nd animation using tempest mephis, and the moment you memphis' 6th attacl hits the enemy, dash cancel and cast his ult. Since this is wuwa, being a sweaty player is just as valid if not higher than being a brainded player. VT is the meta for XLY if he is S0-S4 and you use him in a quickswap rotation and if your sub dps is decently built for ToA, it can rival the dmg of a XYL hypercarry rotation
LT very slightly beats VT by 2-3% if both echo sets have almost similar crit values, attribute dmg, and liberation dmg. It slightly beats VT when it comes to hypercarry dmg beyond his ult (Forte, and liberation skill and basic attacks). This also is due to mech abomination being a summon unit and can deal quadratic dmg. So, it works best against multiple enemies, and hypercarry team comp situations. It only becomes a definitive BiS echo set for XLY if XLY is S5. Since S5 increases your outro dmg by 222% plus mech abomination buff, XLY's final outro dmg multiplier is 519% which is a Lvl 8-ish calcharo reso liberation.
TLDR
-In Overall dmg, LT very slightly beats VT at 2-3% (Due to how tempest mephis takes a while to activate the buff) and at S0-S4.
-When it comes to liberation dmg, VT wins
-When it comes to quickswap, VT wins
-For hypercarry, LT wins
-At S5, LT is significantly better
-In the end, pick whichever substats and main stat is better. A powerful 2pc of each will always beat a mid 5 set echo stat
I love mr jack in the box man's videos. Everyone else in gacha games are typically saying misleading garbage or are yap yap boring theorycraft videos, this man is a legend.
I managed to achieve 80% crit rate through void thunder set and it became 100% crit rate through his weapon.
Don't feel like changing changing the set now coz of crit 😅
I went with LT cuz am too lazy to farm 2 sets for electro and fusion , 😂😂 yes I plan to use it on encore when I finally finish lvling her
Lingering Tunes just so good, the echo skill deal 20k dmg per hit that makes farming mobs easier
I just pop a heavy attack along with the tempest memphis during the setup rotation and before I outro to him. Then, do a resonance skill into liberation for full buffs.
xiangli yao and changli quick swap IS THE BEST!!! i love it
i'm using a mix of those two, unconditional permanent 10% of each buff. On top of that, it's easier to mix with perfect cost-1 echo of a third set, and can re-use 2 or 3 of ATK set on another characters with different element. Downside is, it has 20% less atk than electro set ( or 2 roll of atk on substat). BUT, we have a lot of atk from verina or maybe new healer too, so in return i can dish out 250k quick ulti on tower Scar with my c0r1 yao.
how much CD do you have to be dropping 250k ults with a 2pc/2pc?
I wonder if this idea competes with full sets as well
I've tried some of the best echo set for him. My verdict is lingering tunes is great for hypercarry with long field time, VT and 2VT+2LT is great for quickswap.
Finally, someone settling the Debate, i don't want to suffer my sanity building again for him
People it's easy:
LT if you have his weapon and want to play hypercarry.
Anything else VT, the damage difference is only worth the comfort in the previous scenario but anything else the VT outdamages.
Grind only one lingering tunes set with 2 Atk% elites.
Use it for every dps character.
Never have to farm another dps echo set.
Universal > B.I.S with 10%~ more dmg.
That being said I'll still grind every attribute set because very gud game :D
That won't help to clear higher TOA or hologram higher levels because you'll eventually need good substats for that and substat requirements for characters are different even if they are dps characters
@@Fact_Check12 Crit rate, Crit Damage, Atk% and flat atk are all universal and very few people will keep grinding past that for better subs, getting a bit extra dmg bonus doesn't make that big of a difference. Clearing any floor in ToA in 1 minute vs 2 minutes still gives max rewards and you have 5 whole minutes to kill hologram.
Edit: I'm have square brain and I am an idiot. I made some calculations and a full atk build with no damage bonus is around 40-50% weaker then one with damage bonus. It's probably still possible to beat ToA with a build like this, since with a proper build I can clear the tougher floors in 50-70 seconds (with a full team), but it would be a lot harder.
@@nicksm2976 good thing you said "with a full team" meaning that lingering tunes which buffs with field time will fall off immensely hard. It is also IMPOSSIBLE to clear middle tower lvl 2 with 3 stars without a character focused echo distribution solo even if it's jhinsi. You can't even clear lvl 4 side tower with 3 stars unless the tower has the correspondence elemental buff
I don’t mind weaving in a few heavy attacks to get the bonus on xiangli Yao as opposed to farming months for another set
If only it were that simple...
Using 2 heavy attacks wont get you the full effect. You must do a heavy attack and skill. The stacks are independant of eachother. Which means it becomes clunky on XY when you eventually hit his forte skill, because it will launch him into the air and you cant do his liberation while air borne.
That meams LT isnt just best in terms of numbers. Its best for his rotations as well.
Another upside to LT is that the set can be shared on any other resonator so dont have to farm it twice altho some stats may not be as good on other characters. This doesnt go for attribute bonus 3 cost but the other 3 pieces are transferable
if they allow you to keep the LT buff when you swap until it's duration ends, it's value in quickswap teams skyrocket.
I think the lingering tunes will be great for a future DPS who scales heavily on attack buffs. The electro set seems to be the most viable at the moment and even if you can't get the full buff because you forgot to use a heavy attack it's still a good set and it's great for quick swap playstyle which most of us are running him with yinlin so u gonna wanna switch out as frequently
I don't think Yinlin is actually a great quick swap candidate with him. Her outro is too strong on him to give up just to swap back to Yinlin, so that should actually be the team where lingering tunes works the best
@@DoctorQcumber That's very true. The main reason why Calcharo was played in quickswap with Yinlin is because Calch's liberation rotation is so prone to interruption that quickswaps were necessary to deal damage without taking massive hits.
Xiangli has none of those problems, so a moonlit set on Yinlin with no quickswapping during Xiangli's liberation rotation is the way to go.
2p 2p is the best with mec abomination and the easiest to fram, because you can put a random fifth echo and get him the best parts from every set.
Honestly it was finally time to get a LT set
i'd love to try lingering tunes but my void thunder set is so cracked rn because thats been my investment since i have calcharo. 😢
I farmed both sets. I chosed the one with the best echoes' substat. At the end the winner was Lingering tunes
The main problem with Thundering and Tempest Mephis' is that Kuro decided "we're going to give players two 'options' for a 4-cost echo, except one will obviously be superior to the other, and neither of them are summons."
I honestly think both echoes kind of suck.
1. Thundering mephis takes 3-5x the time of every other echo skill to use. Insane DPS loss in every circumstance
2. Tempest Mephis has a garbage heavy attack bonus that NO electro unit on the roster uses. Calcharo, Yinlin, Yuanwu, and Xiangli have pretty much no noticeable increase in their rotation damage from its bonus, but it's the only option because of the DPS loss on the Thundering one.
@@saintontas I agree, but I didn't say either were good, just that one was clearly superior to the other. I've found at least for my playstyle, I much prefer the "drop and forget about it" nature of summon echoes.
Bad effects of the Mephis' aside, the decision to make both 4 cost echoes for their respective element the same kind, transformative, took away a bit of player's freedom to experiment. Otherwise we're forced to either choose to use a lower cost main echo, or avoid the set entirely. Which is pretty much what I'm doing with Lingering Tunes.
In my opinion, what good balancing would look like is if they exchanged field time of transformations for more power than the summons, and having the freedom to choose between which better suits your play. And maybe some comps will prefer one echo over the other by the numbers anyway, but even then players can choose the sub optimal echo in the name of what feels good and fun, or at least smooth.
Aren't the void thunder buffs (including the echo skill buff) all lost once you quick swap to another character?
Time to upgrade those LT pieces waiting for their rightful owner. 🥰🥰
I'm trying make lingering tune set with 4 cost crit, two 3 cost ATK%, and two 1 cost ATK% all with double crit sub stats. This would be decent place holder until im done building BIS echo for future dps characters i might get later.
Its a hassle to trying to build new echo set every patch, when I can already clear 30 TOA with the characters i already have right now.
From my rough understanding lingering tune set performs 90% - 105% compared to most characters' BIS echo set, and 2 ATK% pieces performs 10% - 20% less compare to BIS 3 cost echos. These are downsides that are acceptable in my perspective, and could be overcome by team building and gameplay.
God roll lingering tunes will beat mid roll bis set
@@saiavabel6076 based on recent observation with lot of XY's signature weapon vs battle pass weapon comparison videos, the most important damage numbers seem to weigh more on combinations of based number on weapon level + character level + talent levels than echos. Of course BIS echo set with high roll helps, but I think its more healthier to find ways to stress less on echo building just to 3x ~ 4x your multipliers. Especially when 1.5x ~ 2x with average echo rolls are enough clear 30 clear TOA.
I have LT with two Electro bonus 3s. The outro buff and instant echo skill is fun
I still don't understand, considering Void thunder is easy to trigger the bonus and last for 15 seconds.
When you intro (0 Forte): HA - cancel into Liberation -> E -> Full Buff.
If His Forte is full during after Intro: Forte E -> Liberation -> E -> Full Buff.
Am I missing something?
well....I guess imma need to start using my untouched Lingering Tunes set
I like LT more and don’t want to bother farming VT anymore until there’s a new electro 4 cost and more electro echoes in general. VT is better for quick swap, but I’m cool using him with Yinlin for now.
My mans running with Changli and Spectro Rover. It's VT all the way for me.
Maygi mentioned 🗣️💯🙏🔥
2 piece sets of both and a 5th offpiece echo. Gives so much more breathing room and i don't have to farm enddlessly for a good 5 set or worry about requirements.
While I do mostly use Yao on premium electro team, I still use void>lingering because I love quick swapping between him and Yinlin. And I’m too lazy to farm a new echo set with the current state of echo building
I've just finished building VT(62/235 with 2,2k attack) so I'm good for now. After I lvl him up to 90 lvl and try him out and if I'll see I miss damage I'll go for LT cuz I don't really swap him off that often tbh
I'm frustrated as I only need 1, 3 cost echo with either Atk% or electro damage % but after 2 hours of farming in the overworld and in the tacet field I just gave up💀
Void Lingering Thunder Tunes, because I'm a lazy bastard and I find it more fun playing as inefficiently as possible.
I did the 1Head play ever since Yinlin got announced which is I saw team with 2 lightning -> I farm VT. So by now I have 2 good VT crit sets. I wonder if many non-guidereaders did this
I tried building a 43311 Electro set for him.1) Elite class echo were so painfully grindy for the right main electro damage bonus stat that its unbearable. 2) I literally got the worst substats imaginable, one of them rolled out to a 6.9% crt rate then just def, hp, hp%, flat def & the other one did not have any ER or any crt stat so i decided to scrap it & moved to Lingering tunes set & this time i have 63.9% crt rate with 232% crt damage with 142% Er. This set is 43311 where one 3 cost has Electro bonus main stat & the other 3 cost has ER as main coz its too hard to find matching main stat on 3 costs echo. My Xiangli Yao is at lvl70 with his signature weapon & at UL 45
went with void thunder because i built calcharo and stole most of his echoes for xiangli yao. all i had to do is to farm a good 4 cost.
I really dont like the 2 main echoes for VT but I had some pretty insane rolls on all my substat echoes so I stuck with it, I think im gonna switch to LT instead. Hopefully my rolls will be lucky like my VT ones
I use my XO with changli, for a quick swap thus I use the void thunder set. Because you just gotta do resonance skill 2 times and he does it all the time.
So sad already build lingering tunes.cant build void thunder again resources gone.
i just used what I have(Thundering Fury), don't want to farm another set which is so difficult to do and waste so much resources.
i'm just gonna use my old calcharo build, i'm too tight on resources
Tbh
I found the Memphis more clunky on Yao than on calcharo which is crazy cause I can just use the echo skill in between calcharo attacks to generate the buffs. Also since mercy is a heavy attack and not liberation dmg it makes VT so good on him
For Yao it was too clunky, even with tempest. I might have skill issue yes but I find it easier using Memphis on calcharo and yinlin than Yao so in my opinion I just went for lingering instead. With the fact that LT doesn’t makes you to try to remember to use a heavy before liberation then it’s obvious which one is better for “convenience”.
Calcharo has fallen but he is a monster with yao
i personally more like lingering tune because i really bad at quick swapping.
and full set is easier buff to get by just stay on field.
also i dont have hes main weapon, so giving more atk is more understanding for me.
Maygi mentioned!
I would swap to lingering tunes but sadly it would be too much resource and time. I can just swap calcharo's echo and done
I went LT cause I don’t want to farm a 2nd VT set. If I want to use him as quickswap in a team without Yin Lin I’ll just move her VT set to him.
Wish i could use lingering tunes but so far my echos for that are trash 😭😭
Well i have well-built sets of both
To sum up my experience
If you haven't already farmed for VT with memphis, for let's say Calcharo, go for Lingering tunes
LT with mech has overall greater dmg output, and the playstyle is just better, both memphises are annoying and take up time, while you just need to click once for Mech
If you have a VT with memphis set with one in a million substats, then you can go for it instead of LT and mech
But still i recommend making a LT set because if you don't use it on XY, there will be a character whose best Set would be LT, better to farm and utilize it right now instead of wasting your time in the future
maygi the goat!! fr
for now i will stay VT set from my calcharo. my XY still need some upgrade in forte, level, and the weapon. later if i already max all forte, weapon, and level, i will try to farm LT.
i like lingering set. but i dont wanna deal with rng substat long grind again. so i just use void thunder with already good substat.
Unfortunatly for me i farm VT echoes and i invested so much in them to the point where every echo has resonance liberation dmg bonus with good sub stats.. also with crit dmg and crite rate sub stats at max numbers so yeah it's hard for me to change now my echoes are perfectly build lol
I had built a electro lingering tunes set for some reason, it was on my yin lin, imagine my surprise when he came out lol.
Ez echo swap with Xiangli Yao xD
So this video is based on the assumption that everyone has his signature weapon and not others like abyss surges which has atk as substats? Which can be bad for LT which also buff atk.
Also if used with yinlin, yaoyao can't switch off-field either way or lose yinlin's buff. So many factors that will affect which set to use. Not just which set is better.
I'm using XLY with LT paired with Jianxin. Cleared Fourth floor with only them (no support)
Imma just wait until I get a set for lingering tunes, All my Echo exp wssted on just a SINGLE Echo to have 2 crit
Void thunder if you use him with changli quickswap
knowing kuro they will make VT better someday, so ill just keep vt and not waste my sanity on substat rerolls
I had void thunder buld for my calacharo. And being short on mats is forcing me to play that.
Gonna build LT in the future thats fs after shorekeeper, rn even with VT i can clear aix in toa under a minute, so its not that necessary, but definitely will build one 😊
I got bored building VT so I built him in LT. I got too many VT sets, must use the other ones lol 😂
What about 2 VT and 2 LT pieces and the 4cost echo is your choice? 😅
Meanwhile me using the energy regen set 😭
I chose Lingering Tunes, because my subsets are so lucky.
The Void Thunder I had on Calcharo is so bad so I didn't use it
The fact that the full power of lingering tunes do not work in the initial burst of his liberation already drops it way below for me.
That's definitely a feel-bad moment for Lingering Tunes users. With a MV of 1466% it sucks not having the full lingering tunes buff unless you sandbag your rotation like a madman
@@saintontas Exactly!
We can just make use of the 5pc damage for the duration of the liberation though
My VT XY has 70:270 not gonna change anytime soon 🤣
man i didnt know VT was this tedious to use i know thundering mephis was bad so i avoided it and took tempest mephis as my 4 cost but i didnt notice the obnoxious buff proc requirement i was even so happy i got double crit with semi decent rolls on other sub stats on every echo but its annoying to have to conciously HA cancel to get max buff ill try to get LT set leveled as well since it's a more universal set it should be useful across charactersbut i feel like i used all my luck to get good rolls on VT now im using scraps to level LT
The thing is, just because it’s a bad for cost doesn’t mean you should go for the other one, they’re both not good. I recommend if you’re using VT use 1 or a 3 cost as your main echo
I'm just now getting to doing echoes for him and might actually go lingering tunes, right now I've just had him on a void thunder set I'd previously had equipped on Yinlin from when i had a Jinhsi Yinlin team. however long ago that was. And I've yet to level up any of the moonlit clouds echoes I've now given her either so it is off to the tacet fields I go I guess. I've been playing the unconventional route of playing everything as one team and switching it once i max out the intimacy thing, so now I've ended up with Xiangli Yao and Taogi together which. Works? I honestly spend more time as Taoqi than Xiangli, I just find her fun to play and she doesn't do bad at damage either. I don't really play the tower, just playing to build every single character in the game one by one and slowly getting down the list. After this team is probably going to be an Encore focused team bc I have her sitting at level 70 having done nothing with her, maybe I'll bring Yangyang out for fun, not sure. Before this it was a Chixia-Changli dual dps team that somehow left me liking Chixia's gameplay better than Changli's so i guess i never know, also Chixia is better in depths of the illusive realm than i ever expected her to be considering I didn't even level her up until building her to go alongside Changli
Man they need to rework thundering memphis so bad.
How bad 2+2 is?
I dealing 250k dmg during liberation,and 50k for each hypercube using full electro build
Cant you just E E to activate it all again? Also im pretty sure that those hypercarry teams with yinlin finish off his 3 empowered strikes in 15 seconds
Aight i give the Echo back to Calcharo.
I just gave him Calcharo's thunder set lmao
Had to change some echoes to roll a better crit, still less work then making a whole new set
From every resource ive read / watched, lingering tunes is ~3% stronger than void thunder and once a faster attacking 4 cost void thunder echo is released lingering tunes will be surpassed
And you can use two 4 cost echos and 3 1 cost echos for a MUCH better echo farming experience with very minor drawbacks