I tried your method, and I’m amazed with the results: my trombone bell looks wonderful. I turned my bench vice round 90°, made a moveable mandrill, and got going, nice and steady. Took about 2 hours in all. Thank you very much for the advice.
Good stuff - just found your video. I just did the same repair to a beautiful old 1950s Olds Special cornet. bought an eBay dent roller, got a rawhide hammer - lots of time & patience & good lighting! Great job on the Jupiter. Agree, a dent machine besides being expensive, if it messes with the bass too much will effect the tone. Better to have an instrument with some marring rather than a pretty pristine horn with horrible intonation.
The roller is made from steel. I use yellow buffing compound to polish my dent tools to lessen the chances of scratching the metal. Also a little multi purpose grease on the tools never hurts. The tool I'm using is on bearings so the surface moves with the bell when I roll out the dents.
Marching instruments have the unfortunate general run through the ringer every once on a while. It's a shame. But it's always a breath of fresh air when someone takes care of an instrument that's not their's.
A bell mandrel will smooth that bell back to new. Alas I don't know how many bell mandrels we have by now. 8,9,10? 12, 15? I don't know. Later this year, 100 years accumulation of tools. The magnetic dent removers are pretty cool. There are shrinking hammers, expanding hammers, and planishing hammers. Brass is a lot more fun to work than old Detroit steel. New car body sheet metal is so thin now that it's almost like working with brass. Same deal, it stretches but you can shrink it with the proper tools.
I've never been on the side of using a bell mandrel and a steel burnsiher. while these help in removing the dent they also completely thin the metal. I use this technique because it will not change the thickness of the metal therefore retaining as close to the original instruments intonation as possible. But if an instrument is completely destroyed i just use my dent machine or MDRS. But once again these techniques thin the metal.
Josh, regarding the scars, you said they were forever, unless … My bell has been restored to shape but it shows those scars. Is there any way to remove them by myself (with no pro tools) even if it takes a while? Thanks! Edit: I've found, on my trumpet, that those scars are actually in the lacquer., not the brass. I removed some of the lacquer, polished with Brasso, and it was quite clean and smooth. Of course, any new lacquer would have to be tinted yellow to match the old lacquer.
A joy to watch :) I've got an old valve trombone I want to try and take the dents from the bell before I relacquer it. Just not brave enough to take even a tiny hammer to it
Everything is always worth trying. It may seem overwhelming and scary but once you get into it it's really fun. With hammering brass just listen for how the hammer sounds when it hits the brass. When using a steel mandrel to work out dents the hammer will sound hollow and you can cause damage when the brass isn't contacting the mandrel but if it sounds like metal on metal you're on the right path. It's all about patience and not rushing it. Take your time and you'll be just fine. Ask any questions you want!
Hi there, I have a question on trumpet bell repair. If the soldering of the bell ring has come unattached in a couple spots due to some damage on the bell, can that be repaired after the bell dents are straightened...can the ring be resoldered, or is it too risky of a repair and possibly cause issues with the sound? Thank you for your time.
If the bell ring in the rim is loose and you can hear the vibrations then yes you could have that soldered again. Some bell rims are hollow and don't need soldering. But in all honesty if you're not familiar with solder work I would take your trumpet in to a repair tech like me in your area. It's easy to mess up a solder job and even harder to clean it up with out the proper set up. In the long run you'd save time and money having it done. Thanks for checking out my channel!
@@vampcaff Thank you for the response. I don't hear anything rattling inside, so the rim might be hollow but not 100% sure. It's a Bach Strad 18037g and unfortunately the horn was handled carelessly (impact of side of bell against a surface, long story) which caused some light creasing in the bell, which caused a couple splits in the rim soldering.... one is about 2" long and the other is about 1" long, and not as separated.... Definitely don't have any instrument repair experience and will be taking it to a tech...it definitely needs a cleaning and some work. I'm wondering if it's one of those things where if it's just cosmetic, then it may be just better to leave it..... I'm worried about it spreading though. Thanks again.
Some skills there man. I'm home grown instrumet repaier and well i where using glass bottle for that kinda thing. That roller douing much better any idea where i can order that thing. Cheers
Thanks a lot! That's very good ingenuity using a glass bottle for dent work! You can order rollers like this from any machinist tooling company or from a Band Instrument Repair tool company like Votaw or Ferree's.
For silver plating it depends on the manufacturer but usually we're talking ten thousandths of a mm thick. If it's solid silver then it's as thick as the bell is. Silver is a lot easier to work with in my opinion than brass.
I have almost exactly job to do. Was very helpful. Don't have roller. Thinking to make one. Unfortunately in my country you can't by one. Where do you buy, your instruments?
There's a home made option for you. Take a piece of steel stock, at least 12mm in diameter. Then find a bearing that will press fit over the steel stock, find some PVC pipe that will press fit over the bearings, the PVC should be 6 inches in length or so. One bearing lines up at one end of the pvc tube and one lines up at the other end. The steel stock should go through both bearings. Boom you got a roller! Most of my repairs are from customers looking to have their instruments fixed. But look at local pawn shop or yard sales to find cheap used instruments. Good luck!
If each moves fine on their own then the problem is the spacing between tubes. If you measured inner slide and that seems fine then focus on the outer slide. You can move the tubes by sliding the 1st tuning slide tube and main tuning slide tube (if they fit, which they usually do if ones an inner and the others and outer) to make it easier to manipulate the third slide.
The hammer I'm using is made out of delrin, but ABS can be used too. Honestly they're really easy to make but if you're looking for a company that makes good hammers look into Allied Supply Company or Ferres's Tools.
Josh, you are amazing, can you tell me what is the diameter of the roller and the length of it? Do you have any other repair that you can share with us? You very,very helpful to Us. God bless.
If you want to anneal the brass you'll need to strip the lacquer, buff and lacquer the bell again. That would have been a lot more expensive for the customer and they only wanted the dent fixed. Yes, you could anneal the brass to work it if, and only if the brass is too hardened to move. Too many technicians jump straight to annealing, but realistically the average customer doesn't want to pay for that kind of extensive service.
With severe dent work like this it's done on a per hour labor rate of $65. I pretty much start the clock and when it's done that's what it costs. As far as estimates go it's all on a case by case scenario but this one in particular was $120 which included a $60 play condition (chem wash and valve throw regulations)
If it's badly crimped, yes. But if it were that bad I would anneal the brass to soften it then hammer it out. Repeat the process off annealing when the brass is work hardened until the creases are hammered out.
Mallets work best when the brass can be layed flush on a steel mandrel. In the case of a bell your best bet is a bell roller. There are occasions where a mallet on the bell comes in handy but that's more for sharp dents rather than folds as in the example shown in this video. The material of the mallet also matters greatly. I only use delrin and steel hammers for dent work.
Hourly rate for repair is $65. Dents like this are usually estimate only and don't have an exact price. I pretty much start the clock when i start and when I'm done i see how long it took and charge accordingly.
No!!!!!! I'm so sorry that your instrument was ruined. Such a shame that people are so quick to repair as fast as possible. The dent machine is a great to tool to get quick results but quick isn't always best. I get pretty good results with my shops dent machine but at home I go old school.
Amazing work Josh!
Thanks!!! I really love fixing up these busted up instruments 🤗
FANTASTIC. Loved it. I'm eager to do our own DIY repair job on my son's trumpet now! Thank you for an excellent tutorial.
Just did mine with a rawhide hammer and a scrap of 1.5 inch abs pipe. You can barely tell anything happened! Thanks for the vid!!
I tried your method, and I’m amazed with the results: my trombone bell looks wonderful. I turned my bench vice round 90°, made a moveable mandrill, and got going, nice and steady. Took about 2 hours in all. Thank you very much for the advice.
Yes!!! That's awesome!
Wonderful to see someone doing nice work w/o $$$$$ tools!
Good stuff - just found your video. I just did the same repair to a beautiful old 1950s Olds Special cornet. bought an eBay dent roller, got a rawhide hammer - lots of time & patience & good lighting! Great job on the Jupiter. Agree, a dent machine besides being expensive, if it messes with the bass too much will effect the tone. Better to have an instrument with some marring rather than a pretty pristine horn with horrible intonation.
Thanks! Glad to hear you had success with your repair!
Joshs spectacular the show! the roller of what material is not to scratch the bell, thanks for sharing your wisdom.
The roller is made from steel. I use yellow buffing compound to polish my dent tools to lessen the chances of scratching the metal. Also a little multi purpose grease on the tools never hurts. The tool I'm using is on bearings so the surface moves with the bell when I roll out the dents.
I wish I had these tools when I was in marching band. My loaner baritone was not well kept by the previous player
Marching instruments have the unfortunate general run through the ringer every once on a while. It's a shame. But it's always a breath of fresh air when someone takes care of an instrument that's not their's.
Dude, nice work! You got that bell back pretty quickly
Great demonstration of budget repair! Thanks
the roller!! I love the roller. I will have to make one for my work
It's a life and time saver for sure!
Groovy, amazing transformation.......good job!!!
Thanks a lot! I really appreciate it! Thanks for stopping by and checking out the channel.
A bell mandrel will smooth that bell back to new. Alas I don't know how many bell mandrels we have by now. 8,9,10? 12, 15? I don't know. Later this year, 100 years accumulation of tools. The magnetic dent removers are pretty cool. There are shrinking hammers, expanding hammers, and planishing hammers. Brass is a lot more fun to work than old Detroit steel. New car body sheet metal is so thin now that it's almost like working with brass. Same deal, it stretches but you can shrink it with the proper tools.
I've never been on the side of using a bell mandrel and a steel burnsiher. while these help in removing the dent they also completely thin the metal. I use this technique because it will not change the thickness of the metal therefore retaining as close to the original instruments intonation as possible. But if an instrument is completely destroyed i just use my dent machine or MDRS. But once again these techniques thin the metal.
I totally have your exact same floor rug.
😂 that's awesome
and i thought the dent in my trumpet was bad..... holy crap, as soon as i saw the dent i gasped
🤣 and it gets worse than this too!
A sliding burnisher would be a good addition to your kit.
Good job
Thanks!
I enjoyed your video. You are talented with repairs. Keep it going.
Thank you so much it really means a lot me. I'll definitely never stop. I live for repair!
WOW! That is absolutely amazing… 😳
Thanks! Glad you stopped by my channel and took some time to check out my repairs!
Josh, regarding the scars, you said they were forever, unless …
My bell has been restored to shape but it shows those scars. Is there any way to remove them by myself (with no pro tools) even if it takes a while? Thanks!
Edit: I've found, on my trumpet, that those scars are actually in the lacquer., not the brass. I removed some of the lacquer, polished with Brasso, and it was quite clean and smooth. Of course, any new lacquer would have to be tinted yellow to match the old lacquer.
This is a great demonstration! Thanks!
Thanks! Just out here showing folks the fun we techs have fixing those "uh-oh" problems.
Your video was very useful 👌👊
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!
A joy to watch :)
I've got an old valve trombone I want to try and take the dents from the bell before I relacquer it. Just not brave enough to take even a tiny hammer to it
Everything is always worth trying. It may seem overwhelming and scary but once you get into it it's really fun. With hammering brass just listen for how the hammer sounds when it hits the brass. When using a steel mandrel to work out dents the hammer will sound hollow and you can cause damage when the brass isn't contacting the mandrel but if it sounds like metal on metal you're on the right path. It's all about patience and not rushing it. Take your time and you'll be just fine. Ask any questions you want!
Excelent!!!Foarte bine!!! Acuratete si rabdare!!!
Thanks for the support!!! Much appreciated!
great job! can you tell me the measurement/type of mandrin and hammer? My daughter fell from the stairs and dented the bell badly.... :(
I tripped and dropped my trumpet and it looks crinkled, do you think this still works?
Hi there, I have a question on trumpet bell repair. If the soldering of the bell ring has come unattached in a couple spots due to some damage on the bell, can that be repaired after the bell dents are straightened...can the ring be resoldered, or is it too risky of a repair and possibly cause issues with the sound? Thank you for your time.
If the bell ring in the rim is loose and you can hear the vibrations then yes you could have that soldered again. Some bell rims are hollow and don't need soldering. But in all honesty if you're not familiar with solder work I would take your trumpet in to a repair tech like me in your area. It's easy to mess up a solder job and even harder to clean it up with out the proper set up. In the long run you'd save time and money having it done. Thanks for checking out my channel!
@@vampcaff Thank you for the response. I don't hear anything rattling inside, so the rim might be hollow but not 100% sure. It's a Bach Strad 18037g and unfortunately the horn was handled carelessly (impact of side of bell against a surface, long story) which caused some light creasing in the bell, which caused a couple splits in the rim soldering.... one is about 2" long and the other is about 1" long, and not as separated.... Definitely don't have any instrument repair experience and will be taking it to a tech...it definitely needs a cleaning and some work. I'm wondering if it's one of those things where if it's just cosmetic, then it may be just better to leave it..... I'm worried about it spreading though. Thanks again.
Excelente trabalho.
Thanks!
Some skills there man. I'm home grown instrumet repaier and well i where using glass bottle for that kinda thing. That roller douing much better any idea where i can order that thing. Cheers
Thanks a lot! That's very good ingenuity using a glass bottle for dent work! You can order rollers like this from any machinist tooling company or from a Band Instrument Repair tool company like Votaw or Ferree's.
I didn't see anything like this tool on either of those sites.
Does it have a technical name?
Dent roller maybe have no clue either
Votaw sells them, make sure you're on the right votaw tools website. Should be the one for instrument repair. They're called rolling mandrels.
Where may I purchase a roller?
I have the same trumpet model, and that happened to me today.
Noooo! That's a bummer, sorry to hear about that.
I don’t have the same model but that happened to me today to and I’m pissed.
That sucks! Just find a local repair tech you can trust and they'll be able to fix it up for you!
Does this work on a silver trumpet? How thick is the silver layer on a trumpet typically?
For silver plating it depends on the manufacturer but usually we're talking ten thousandths of a mm thick. If it's solid silver then it's as thick as the bell is. Silver is a lot easier to work with in my opinion than brass.
What the tool you are using called?
I have almost exactly job to do. Was very helpful. Don't have roller. Thinking to make one. Unfortunately in my country you can't by one.
Where do you buy, your instruments?
There's a home made option for you. Take a piece of steel stock, at least 12mm in diameter. Then find a bearing that will press fit over the steel stock, find some PVC pipe that will press fit over the bearings, the PVC should be 6 inches in length or so. One bearing lines up at one end of the pvc tube and one lines up at the other end. The steel stock should go through both bearings. Boom you got a roller! Most of my repairs are from customers looking to have their instruments fixed. But look at local pawn shop or yard sales to find cheap used instruments. Good luck!
If each moves fine on their own then the problem is the spacing between tubes. If you measured inner slide and that seems fine then focus on the outer slide. You can move the tubes by sliding the 1st tuning slide tube and main tuning slide tube (if they fit, which they usually do if ones an inner and the others and outer) to make it easier to manipulate the third slide.
Hi Josh
What kind of hammer are you using.
Is it metal or another material?
Nice video.
Thanks for sharing
Thanks! I use a few different hammers for different situations but I mostly use delrin or steel hammers for dent work.
Con que martillo le está dando???
hola josh una pregunta tu martillo es de nylon ? , donde lo podria adquirir ? muchas gracias por compartir saludos desde Lima Peru Maestro 🙂
The hammer I'm using is made out of delrin, but ABS can be used too. Honestly they're really easy to make but if you're looking for a company that makes good hammers look into Allied Supply Company or Ferres's Tools.
Josh, you are amazing, can you tell me what is the diameter of the roller and the length of it?
Do you have any other repair that you can share with us? You very,very helpful to Us. God bless.
The roller I am using is about 1 1/2 inches wide by 4 inches long. I have several tutorial videos planned for the future! Stay tuned!
Buy a socket and a extension
@@emidioaquino8039 😂 i get it now. Total joke, i thought you were serious for a second there.
Why wouldn't a socket work?
Can you heat and Cool to expand and shrink to remove dents easier with less warp
If you want to anneal the brass you'll need to strip the lacquer, buff and lacquer the bell again. That would have been a lot more expensive for the customer and they only wanted the dent fixed. Yes, you could anneal the brass to work it if, and only if the brass is too hardened to move. Too many technicians jump straight to annealing, but realistically the average customer doesn't want to pay for that kind of extensive service.
What’s an average price for a repair like this?
With severe dent work like this it's done on a per hour labor rate of $65. I pretty much start the clock and when it's done that's what it costs. As far as estimates go it's all on a case by case scenario but this one in particular was $120 which included a $60 play condition (chem wash and valve throw regulations)
Me casually coming here because I dent my trumpet before my concert 😃😭
How much does this repair cost??
where did you get the roller you put in your vice to use to roll out the dents?
You should be able to find what you're looking for in ferree's website. They make great tools and really easy to work with.
Isnt there a risk of work hardening the brass and have it tear?
If it's badly crimped, yes. But if it were that bad I would anneal the brass to soften it then hammer it out. Repeat the process off annealing when the brass is work hardened until the creases are hammered out.
Sounds like jr kimbrough playing
My goofy ahh really thought I could catch my trumpet in mid air to get a better grip on it
But what can I use instead of a roller
You'll get the best results with a roller but in a pinch a highly polished tapered steel mandrel will work.
@@joshsinstrumentrepair thank man 👊
how do you repair a huge dent and two holes in a trumpet
Holes will need to be patched and dents are usually on a case to case basis. I would have to see the trumpet i guess 😁
Can I use a mallet?
Mallets work best when the brass can be layed flush on a steel mandrel. In the case of a bell your best bet is a bell roller. There are occasions where a mallet on the bell comes in handy but that's more for sharp dents rather than folds as in the example shown in this video. The material of the mallet also matters greatly. I only use delrin and steel hammers for dent work.
I do show in the video the use of a raw hide mallet to straighten the lip of the bell.
Around how much do these repairs usually cost?
Hourly rate for repair is $65. Dents like this are usually estimate only and don't have an exact price. I pretty much start the clock when i start and when I'm done i see how long it took and charge accordingly.
Okay thanks!
20 minute video. so..... about $25? :)
😂 exactly!
I went to the 'top guy' in NY. Put it on the machine instead of doing it the slow correct way. Horn was ruined. jw
No!!!!!! I'm so sorry that your instrument was ruined. Such a shame that people are so quick to repair as fast as possible. The dent machine is a great to tool to get quick results but quick isn't always best. I get pretty good results with my shops dent machine but at home I go old school.
Hello my friend. Where and how can I purchase tools to repair trumpets?
There's several companies that specialize in band instrument repair tools. The two main companies I like are Votaw Tools and Ferree's.