Why Is 4D Golf So Cursed
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 มี.ค. 2024
- please spam the comments with gameplay complaints
Oh also, I do wonder how "4d golf master" speedruns are going to go, provided they aren't just exact directions of where to aim. It seems insane to me that someone could get so good at this game in a blind playthrough they hit under-pars frequently, but maybe I suck :(
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i love that half of the frustration in this game is just from minigolf and not the fact that its 4d
Same, lol. You'd expect navigating 4D space to be the hard part, but nah, it's just classic minigolf things like hitting too soft to go up a slope or hard enough that you go past the hole
@@squiddler7731 hello "22 over par"my old friend, no pity system here
@@squiddler7731 Code Parade did a good job with those navigating tools then, huh?
@@sargentgullible2794 ngl theyre amazing just froom looking at them
i can confirm, i keep fumbling basic shots, undershooting, and bouncing off the goal and being sent fuck-all somewhere to another 4d slice entirely
Thanks for streaming Icely! It gets even more cursed toward the end, and there may be a certain chess related meme you'll enjoy... 😉
golf battle advanced
google 4d passant
golf battle advanced
it’s 4d golf, duh
did you expect it to be simple
So I think I understand- we can only percieve 3 dimensions, and in 'regular' view we perceive 3 axis: up-down, left-right, forward-back. But in volume view we still only see on 3 axis, but we sacrifice being able to see up-down so that we can see ana-kata. So in volume view, up and down are a bit confusing, and in regular view, ana and kata are confusing
The thing is, that we actually only perceive TWO dimensions due to it being on a screen! "3D" games are already projected down to 2 dimensions, making it even harder to visualize a fourth dimension.
Sure, we are used to 3 dimensions, so we "think" in 3 dimensions. We have a really hard time "mapping" stuff from 2D to 3D already in some cases, not to mention from 1D to 3D. This is the equivalent of mapping from 1D to 3D due to screens being flat. (Holographs instead of screens would Really help here!)
@@bjorn9875And that's why I'm hyped for VR support! I've already played all the base levels and honestly VR would probably make it way easier for me to visualize Anth and Kenth (and super secrets later)
I think the volume view essentially re-maps all the possible positions on a flat part of the 4d green into 3d space. It essentially does this by not showing anything that is higher (or lower) than the specific part of the green you're on. I'm imagining the view as showing you everything within a flat plane parallel with the ground. It does not show anything outside the plane (i.e. above or below it). The colour of the walls of the volume view are just what this ground-level plane is intersecting with. The green walls are brown, and the green slopes become green walls since the plane is intersecting with the green at that point.
The regular view might actually just flip the plane 90 degrees so that it's perpendicular with the ground instead.
This is really confusing. I hope this comment helps and doesn't make things even more confusing.
@@bjorn9875soooo… would vr work?
@@bjorn9875our brains are actually so good at filling in the gaps from 2d to 3d that it literally doesn't have an effect on spacial reasoning
"unstable slices" girl. bro. dude. my guy. bouncing is a thing.
And most importantly not only bouncing in three dimensions
you must understand that nothing is "ceasing to exist" you are in an environment everything is there
Yeah honestly I love watching Icely but he's so, so, so bad at the key concepts of 4d. Like, to me volume view is so obviously helpful but it took him so many levels of using it before he could use it right, and he *still* didn't understand that it's just hecking, the slice perpendicular to gravity. :/
Bro literally lacks object permanence.
@@marcusdaloia2974 seems to be a theme with people playing this game but not trying to understand what's going on :|
Icely doesn't isn't failing at 4d minigolf. He's just failing at minigolf.
Y'know it switches slices when it hits a wall because it deflects in three dimensions when it does that.
In 4 dimensions but yeah
@@HyperNova8083, because it isn’t going up or down.
@@HyperNova808 just 3d, unless theres a ramp or some upkick or something
@@bugzilla318It is going up and down when it’s a pitch/bouncing off the course.
Yeah, he didn’t really seem to fully grasp that, but honestly that’s fair. If you haven’t spent a lot of time wrapping your mind around 4d the game isn’t just going to magically make you understand. Making lower dimensional analogies is always so helpful. If you were golfing in a 2d slice of a normal mini golf course, and the ball hit an angled wall or angled slop, of course the ball would leave your slice. It’s obvious in a lower dimension. But since the view follows the ball, the slice changes with the ball’s path. If he had his “slice stabilization” feature that he wanted the ball would just disappear and he’d have no idea how the shot went. Unless he wants the ball to be physically unable to leave the slice he’s golfing in, but that would kind of go against the spirit of the game. Also side not, I love how volume mode changed to vortex mode, which changed to vertex mode 😂😂
Regular golf: Searching for your ball.
4D golf: Searching for the hole.
I think your main issue comes from assuming that slopes will push you only in the dimensions you can see
even if you can't see it, there's always a hidden dimension that slopes will push you in, which is why it seems like the slice you're in suddenly changes
in reality, it's just the slope pushing you away
it's like if you have a hole that's up a hill and to the right. If you aim straight at it, your ball will end up veering to the right. The same thing is happening in that fourth, hidden dimension as well, so you need to angle off-slice so that you get pushed into the right slice
the compass tools on the top right might be helpful for that. Whichever axis is facing you is the hidden axis that you could be pushed along on
never thought I'd see somebody turn the first stage of a Menger sponge into a golf course
Ha! Mathematician jokes :3
don't worry icely, it gets more cursed in later levels
like a whole new realm of cursed that you'd never believe
“It makes me face the ball but doesnt teleport me to it”
Thats what it does outside of volume mode too.
"I like how the hole leaves its slice" is like saying "that parked car came out of nowhere!"
me when it isn't directly in front of me:
🤨where'd it go?
Icely talking about "slices" as though they're not just directions probably doesn't help
This game shows 4D insanely well. Another one is 4D miner, which had a lot of consideration put into it as well.
Tilting the view to get into "Volume mode" is an amazing ability and changes the perception completely, that's awesome!
4D Minigolf with 3 Dimensional Volume Mode Display
Should I wait for the crossover with 5D chess?
Volume mode only really works for flat levels
rendered onto a 2d screen
@@darkshoxx perceived with a 1d brain
@@zakkymiftahurrahman1665it already is
Here is what's going on: Picture a game of normal golf on a flat, straight course. The ball can move forward, backward, left, and right, it is essentially 2D.
Now imagine the same course but with a hill: You can see the slope, width of the course, and distance to the hole, so you know to hit the ball in a certain direction at a certain power to hit the ball into the hole.
Now imagine the same course, but you can only view it from the top or side or front at a time. From the top, you would see the ball slow down and roll backwards for no reason. From the side, you would get up the slope but you wouldn't even know where the hole is. From the front (looking from the ball toward the hole) you would be able to line the ball up with the hole but you couldn't judge the distance or slope very well.
Now compare this to 4D golf: Each perspective (normal, volume, and whatever other perspectives) can be any one of these three basic views (top, front, or side) at any given time depending on the course and postion of the ball. You might get the distance and width of the course from one, slope and distance from another, and slope and width from a third.
With 4D golf, there are way more views, but at least this gives a pretty good comparison.
That feeling when you’re subscribed to codeparade and videos titled “4d golf is live!” and “why is 4d golf is so cursed” are basically back to back on your subscriptions page….
Icely casually proving that he's a 5D being who can see 4D slices and appreciate them (because 4D Golf is totally a puzzle game that needs to be appreciated) and definitely not complain about their nature
This game seems like a future AGDQ highlight. The right runner could absolutely make it feel like stage magic.
Remember that the volume view is just the flat horizontal slice that your ball is in, so slopes are basically walls in that view
I love the idea of this game, and so glad to see it played finally! And I also find it funny that half of icely's struggles were just with mini golf lol - not that I'd be better.
So frustrating for me that he kept rushing past figuring out _why_ the ball ended up in the wrong "slice" and I just wanted to yell "you bounced off the *wall* ", or "the slope is *angled* to the side into one of the other dimensions", or "I don't know what the heck is going on but *I bet there's a reason for it* !" or something.
36:19 Just like it would in regular miniature golf, considering that this kind of slope gets rid of your upward momentum, while your sideways momentum would still persist.
"It was nicer when we had the Wii Sports bar"
you can turn that bar on in the Settings
thank you for this golden sliver of knowledge 🙏
man am i glad i changed the putting option to metered after this
...and glad i read every crystal
Vortex: a mass of whirling fluid or air, especially a whirlpool or whirlwind.
Volume: the amount of space occupied by a three-dimensional object as measured in cubic units.
Which of these seems more relevant to the mode you bring up by pressing V in this game?
consistently misnaming things is just part of the channel's brand at this point
Volume refers to how the "cave" you see looks like just a normal 3d volume where walls of the volume are walls of the level. It's literally just top down view but for 4d
@@zackbuildit88 I understand that; I copied my definitions from Google in pedantic rage
Given the crazy nonsense people made with the Golf It level editor, I'm scared of what maps people will come up with in this game
1. Just aim the shot in volume view, and adjust the speed of your shot based on the angle of the slope vertically so you don't fall off the course.
2. Keep in mind that when the ball moves vertically, it also enters a new 3D slice, so don't aim strait at the hole in normal view when going up a slope, rather, take it to volume view.
3. The "thickness" of a wall, shows you how tilted that wall is across the 4th dimension. A thin wall is normal, an extremely thick wall will bounce the ball back at you, an in-between thickness wall will send you into another slice.
thank you this is so helpful
Love how this guy is completely unfazed by the 4d mechanics and just breezes past them, but still struggles because his real problem is that he's just godawful at golf
You can and want to enable the alternative swing mode, which has a power bar that you can reference.
Once upon a time I wrote an n-dimensional non-euclidean raytracer. I learned some interesting things in the process - like, in the general case you don't rotate around an axis, you rotate in a plane. E.g., in the X-Y plane, or some plane skew to the primary ones. So in 4d, you can have an object rotating in two directions at once, unlike in 3d. I don't know how gyroscopes would behave in 4d. Similarly, where we have 3 rotation DoF in 3d, I think there'd be 6 in 4d, though you might be able to get away with fewer controls and more steps.
An N-dimensional non-Euclidean raytracer, very impressive. Do you really mean the "non-Euclidean" part though? As in, differing from Euclid's five postulates? (not 3D =/= not Euclidean)
@@lev7509 Yeah - it was n-dimensional sortof as a byproduct; the non-euclidean aspect was what I was really interested in, and I just generalized it to arbitrary dimensions because I might as well, while I was at it. It embedded an m-dimensional manifold in an n-dimensional space - so like, you could explore the 2d surface of a 3d sphere, or a 3d-surface klein bottle analogue in 6d or w/e. You COULD e.g. embed a 10d surface in 20d, but good luck getting a useful visualization out of that, and also not running out of memory with any non-trivial mesh, haha.
Here's a video of a 3d-surface sphere-analog; read the description for a few more details. th-cam.com/video/ooCZIoCdWVQ/w-d-xo.html
Apparently I switched accounts somewhere along the way.
@@Erhannis Impressive! I don't really understand what am i looking at there, though lol (wasn't sure if you still have access to that acc by your remark so respondee here)
@@lev7509 Imagine taking like, a D20 or a faceted billiard ball, color a handful of facets and leave the others "transparent", and stick an ant on it, and imagine the light of the ant's vision conforms to the surface of the ball, bending at edges etc. It would see a bunch of colored triangles of 2d space out ahead of it, and if it sidled left, would eventually return more-or-less to where it started from. That's what you're seeing, but in more dimensions. If that helps.
I like how the cubed level literally is a cube wireframe. The only thing changed about it is that the middle pparts of the wireframe are rased up.
So you just need like 3 hits, one for each non-gravity direction.
i like how the game shows 4D space with 3D slices on 2D monitor but my 1D brain can't handle it
"where's the hole?' - icely puzzles
it goes from "here's how to swing a club" to *move through the 4th dimension* really quick
Cant wait for 5d golf with multiverse time travel
its fun watching icely slowly lose his patience the more he plays
Icely forgot to cut out a failed intro attempt out of this video xd
AAAAAA
youtube trim wurk
Clearly intentional, the intro is also in 4 dimensions
Here's the real brain bender: If you were a fourth dimensional being, you would see all views of all perspectives at the same time. The 4D aspect of the game is only through interaction, not perception. The ball and environment move and change in ways that are "unexpected" because the ball is being affected by all 4D while we only see 3D slices of what is happening to it.
You don't actually need to be a 4D being to be able to at least "imagine" 4D space. For one clearly a computer can compute a 4D spaces even though it fully exists in 3D space. Though you likely won't be able to keep up with a computer and will need plenty of tricks to try it even with simple shapes. The easiest trick is to first start with projecting things futher in either direction in 4D space as being redder or bluer. With things with volume being endless overlapping objects getting bluer/redder. Kinda wish that is how they did ghost view instead of making things transparent. If you get good at that you can swap one of the 6 directions pairs of 3D space, with the red/blue trick making the 2 new directions replace the swapped pair. Then instead of swapping back just try to re add the non color directions with out removing any of the 6 pairs of directions. Good luck with the last part though.
@@asdf30111 A computer performs calculations. It doesn't understand what 4D space is, it just follows the theoretical math we have for 4D space. Since the math is abstract, it doesn't matter what dimension your computer is in, it can calculate any dimension as long as we have the math for it.
As for representing anna and ketta as blue and red, that might work, but would be visually confusing since you would have so many things visible on your screen that you wouldn't know what to do with it. Keep in mind that a 3D cube is 6 squares, so a 2D being seeing a 3D cube this way would be overlaying 6 separate views. For a 3D being with a 4D cube, it would be 9 cubes at once (I think). That much visual clutter would make the game a nightmare to play.
@@levibruner7553 No it would not be 9 cubes, Just think about it, you will have a cube for each of the faces which is six. Then you would have two cubes connected by the six cubes for a total of 8.
@@levibruner7553 Also if two views "ghost" views are too much then have it toggle between three options. Regular view, Ana (blue) view and Kata (red). Though for gameplay it likely would be a good idea to make close objects more opaque and far away objects more translucent.
Golf has 4D
Baba has Headache
Chess battle is advanced
the mechanic of how this works reminds me a lot of 4d miner
It’s EXACTLY 4d Miner since it’s a forth dimension either way.
I found it pretty straightforward but I’m just bad at miniature golf
Same
Why does "Ana" and "Kata" remind me so much of warioware
katakanakatana
@@IcelyPuzzles for some reason that translated to funny
@@IcelyPuzzles Did that reply have anything to do with it
Now go for all hole in 1s. I believe in you!
I don't think hole in 1 is possible everywhere, but birdy certainly is, eagle in some holes.
@@PizzaMineKingbirdie
You, my friend, have up until now shown me 2-3 different games i was actually interested in, and also got me into a game i was already eyeing up. Defo a earned sub, you deserve a subcount in the 100k's at least, imo. Good going and hope you get the recognition you seek, whatever level and type it is. Cheers.
You are playing quite well.
Ah yes, I love playing golf that is completely incomprehnsible to mortal minds
Someone should make 5D golf where you jump between timelines to find where the hole is
When you're in line of sight with the hole, I think that the best move would be to go into volume mode, so there should be no way to shoot so hard that the ball falls out of the 3d hole
Not to brag, but I have birdie or better in every hole of the first 3 worlds, including challenge. Took some practice. The settings for metered strokes and for a help line in volume view really help.
Say birdie, sub-par means worse than par
I always loved minigolfs, virtuals as real ones. This is the step beyond! Cool to see such a long gameplay/walkthrough of this!
icely i am looking for a very *advanced* *battle* game with *chess* do you have recommendations
chess evolved online
5d Chess
OldOldCBA
@@IcelyPuzzles yes
I think I'm getting it. You can only see three axis at a time. In regular view, you can see x y z, but in volume view you trade the y axis for the w axis. It really is important to actually visualize it as viewing slices of the axis you cant see.
Now I can watch people play golf and feel less bad about how I play, thank you icely golfing advanced
Okay, that is the LAST thing I expected from you.
Nice! Been looking forward to this. Now if only I knew what's up with Miegakure.
One thing I suggest for the dev, is maybe try to split ghost view to be in red/blue channels. For "ana" and "kata" . respectfully things are in either direction redder/bluer.
There is an option for that. It makes it a lot easier to understand the ghosts, even in the volume view.
Icely: "I can do this, I can conquer 4D!"
normal golf slope: "it will take you one hundred years of training before you can defeat me"
You struggling with 4d slopes is entertaining.
Got and played it today
I understand 4D well enough, but the thing is I still suck at golf... at least I found the option to use metered swings
Speedruns of this are gonna be insane.
The best speedruns will be the ones where they manage to get out of bounds to take shortcuts.
This is a certified fire in the hole moment ⛳
Gd referenx?!!1
I wonder what the volume equivalent of shooting the ball of the map is
I hate it when i hit my ball so hard i launch it into the 4th dimension
Don't worry, one of the forest challenge levels (or back 9) gave me a 30 over par.
I hated Ice hole 6,I think that also took me way too many hits.
this game just released and you've already made a video on this?
Can't wait for somebody speedrunning it
This is a really cool concept.
Now we just need 5D golf with multiverse time travel
I wonder if making it VR compatible would make it easier to understand
Haven't watched the whole video yet so sorry if you worked this out already, but volume view is the most powerful tool imo. If you aim at the hole in volume view you'll be aiming at it in the 3d slice view.
edit: I commented way too soon cos I can see you're already working it out xD
Oh this is horrifying. 10/10.
i liked the part where we got a bonus intro
Thank you Code Parade, very cool.
Bro recreated the glass desert from slime rancher
Icely! What is it with your newfound interest in games with balls undergoing unpredictable movement?
the game looks so complicated at first but then its just minigolf with extra controls and exploration, and the fact that icey keeps missing easy minigolf stuff its fact of that (or he just sucks ass lol)
what did he say at the end??? 😭😭
I like the vertigo view.
1:38 Did you know that if you combine Kat and Ana you get Anakat?
this is so hilarious to watch i love it
Cant wait for 5d golf
yo another fabled double upload
Golfing to breach hyperspace whooooo
did u edit this vid i cant tell if theres a cut
Yeah there’s several cuts.
It is very interesting that computers can just casually compute 4 dimentions
I mean, it's just 4 numbers instead of 3 for everything. It really is that simple. Gravity acts along 1 axis, there are 3 others, and the camera works on 3 axes at a time (projecting a view of them onto a 2D screen)
It actually took the dev a lot of work to get a 4d rendering pipeline to work so "casually" wouldn't be a great term for it
@@redpepper74 fwiw, the OP is about computers themselves rather than the people using them. Us humans don't normally do graphics rendering like this, so we don't have the best methods for doing so. We have a difficult time figuring out how to tell computers to render a dynamic 4D scene like this, but once we figure it out, computers don't have any problems doing it.
It is because it isn’t rendering anything in 4D. It’s a 3D representation of a 4D environment. We cannot perceive anything in 4D at the same time which is why you need to view it in slices in the first place. It only renders 3D slices because we can’t even begin to render something in 4D as we have no idea what it would look like as it is literally beyond our comprehension. All of the ghost stuff are just slices from nearby slices to yours, like layering a bunch of images ontop of eachother, if that makes it make more sense
@@redpepper74 The rendering part is difficult because you have to manually decide how you want to display the 4D geometry, and existing rendering engines are all built for 3D so you also have to implement a lot of low-level stuff yourself. The point is that as long as you're not talking about rendering but only about simulating the world, computers can easily work with higher-dimensional geometry because it uses coordinates to keep track of positions, and coordinates are just a set of numbers. In 2D a coordinate has 2 parts (x, y), in 3D it has 3 (x, y, z), this easily expands into 4D or 5D or 6D, it's just one extra number to keep track of every time you go up a dimension. Computers are best at dealing with numbers (it's all they ever do), so working with multidimensional coordinate systems is actually relatively straight forward. The hard part is for us humans to picture it in our heads and reason about it.
ayo what was that you said at the end
3D being attempts to play 4D golf on a 2D screen
When are we getting multiplayer?
40:16 Or you could have adjusted your orientation alongside the w-axis before continuing to try the same thing.
real recognizes real
I see someone else had their eye on this game too!
Golf Fighting Enhanced
Golf battle advanced
What, already?? You’re fast.
cursed pooting in outer space!!!! (real)
I hope this game blows up
gameplay complaints
Complaints battle advanced
I am 33 minutes into this video and I was just getting a head ache so I left I was watching other videos and for some stupid reason I was trying to understand them as 4d objects