Shawn Lane's 'Picking Mechanics' feat. Troy Grady and Brendan Dorman
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- Shawn Lane's 'Picking Mechanics' feat. Troy Grady and Brendan Dorman
.....and Paul Gilbert, Andy James to aid the discussion.
Watch, enjoy......PS you may need to pause a few times if you read slowly.
Here is the link to Troy's video • Cracking the Code Epis...
Funny thing is that for Shawn technique was just something he almost stumbled upon and that's exactly why he sounded so unique and unapproachable while 99% of so called shredders out there spend countless hours and days trying to sound like their hero of choice therefore ending up playing the same licks with the same tone, vibrato etc genius can't be taught...
alan simpson well said brother
alan simpson bullshit
Lol.
One guy is like ... "Yeah i totaly agree"
And the other one is like "fuck you" 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@jak9990 typical TH-cam banter
I've never heard Shawn without his awesome technique. No matter how young he was, he seemed to 'have it'. I wonder, while most of us have to spend years stretching, morphing, strenghening the inner workings of the hand (plus wrist and forearm). As well as hand/eye coordination. Maybe Shawn's body structure was just naturally built to play an instrument (like the guitar). We all have different structures. Which can give us all natural abilities, in certain tasks. Shawn, was naturally built to play Guitar physically and mentally. He seems to have taken to it like a Duck to water!
All I know is that I see a LOT of people being able to play Yngwie’s and Gilbert’s licks just as good as the original and NO ONE capable of doing the same when it comes to Shawn Lane
th-cam.com/video/X4rHTpBp9-U/w-d-xo.html
@@joblo3940 That link...Holy shit that man can play!!! My jaw dropped
Ah Roy Marchbank?
@@joblo3940 I will never unshit these pants!
@@alexjackson8841 so did mine so did mine bru
While I don't think Troy was meaning to be condescending, nor do I think playing is a competition; I have yet to see anybody approach Shawn's mastery, technicality, soulfulness, and humle attitude with the electric guitar.
I respect Troy, and have become a better guitarist from his theory and advice, but I completely disagree with Troy saying Shawn primarily downward pick slanted. Shawn used a plethora of techniques, upward, downward, two way, legato, etc... There's a perfect example of Shawn upward pick slanting, which he used many times in shows, also moving to two way pick slanting. The clear example of upward pick slanting is the - Shawn Lane "How to develop and outside sound" video. At the 2:47 mark he says; "and you can also do that picking every note" (lol, as if) it's in groups of threes, on one string, string skipping.
I can't name anyone else, that can do that wide of a spread, with that accuracy, skipping strings. He can do downward, upward, and two way, with more precision than any guitarist I've ever seen, dug for, or heard of.
You are entirely correct.
@Fred Virtuoso If I recall correctly, he's said in a video that you shouldn't be practicing these motions at a slow tempo, but at fast ones. Around 150-160bpm 16th notes.
Do yourself a favor and look up ray marchbank... hes shawn on roids
Straight facts.
Shawn was on a completely different level than anyone out there. We will never see another player with the skill set and talent that guy had, not in our lifetime anyway.
Look up roy marchbank. Ur welcome
@@tonybarber420 I’ve played guitar for 40 yrs and played shred , country, jazz . Marchbank is great but he’s nowhere near as technical as Shawn Lane was .
@@supernumberguy6804 how so?
@@tonybarber420 Roy typically plays a lot of straight scalier notes . More symmetrical patterns. And before you
Make assumptions I have all of a Roy’s recordings . I like his stuff and yes it’s fast but no I don’t see his playing as technical as Shawn’s .
@@supernumberguy6804 i see. I love how shawn was so musical with his phrasing. I wish i could learn how he picked so clean while going so fast. Know any good vids of people breaking down his runs?
I always thought Shawn Lane came from another planet and just stopped by here to see what was going on and to give the planet a glimpse at what a guitar can really do! Really, his technique stands alone pretty much. A guy like Steve Morse comes to mind but there, again, it's just one other guy that I can think of with such a level of alternate picking that anyone who watches it thinks, "WTF have I been trying to pass off as alternate picking for all the years? Whatever it is, it sure as fuck isn't that! and what's that? That IS alternate picking!". Truly on it's own level. I think his technique evolved almost unhindered by trying to figure out the mechanics of the whole thing. I think when you start breaking things down mechanically as a player you start to taint your natural approach to playing the instrument. Troy's work on picking mechanics is really great stuff and makes it much easier for a new player to grasp certain aspects of guitar technique that takes years for people to get proficient in. But it is kind of like learning a song by using tabelture. When you play it the way the tab is written out you are technically playing the song right audibly. (if the tab was accurately transcribed) But musically you may very well not be playing anywhere close to how it was actually played by the original player who played it first. Tab locks a player's brain into thinking there is only one route to fingering a song on the fretboard. It has no musical connection to a piece of music other than placing the proper frequency of a note at a specific place in time with the song. That's it. Same goes for learning certain mechanics to accomplish certain picking techniques. You aren't going to look for what your hand wants to do naturally if you are forcing it to only do specific things at specific times and consciously disregarding what your hand wants to do naturally. Music is organic and to be a wicked guitar player who is also viewed as a great musician your playing must come organically also. IMO
In my humble opinion I prefer to leave this kind of thing to people of much knowledge as guthrie govan if he says that shawn lane is impossible to emulate, stealing licks, what ever .... it is impossible because also many of the guitarists who are elite think the same(we are in 2016 and really nobody come close what shawn lane does with the guitar ). The music may be subjective but nobody can deny the superiority of shawn lane .. he has it all and people who think differently just have not listened to all the music of shawn lane .. For me the best guitarist is the one that you can not steal licks or they are impossible to absorb.. you can not compare common guitarist (all shred guys, jamtrackcentral, etc) with guys with the level of shawn lane, frank gambale, tim miller, wayne krants, jimmy rosenberg , Bryan baker, allan holdsworth, brett garsed, etc. ;)
P.D:To enjoy the music of shawn lane you must first listen to art tatum, oscar peterson, charlie paker, cecil taylor, coltrane, scriabin, mile davis, cannonball, nancarrow, etc). ;)
Totally agree.
1 year later .... 100% agreed, troy is a great player, but even a noob like me can see, he is miles away from the lvl of understanding of the real pros like gambale or guthrie, he has had gambale on his vids before and he was simple lost and speechless, the huge wall difference was obvious, so yeah, i too would rather take guthrie's take on shawn lane than troy's any day as well, nonetheless, i do admit troy's take on picking has been very helpful to the comunity (i think lol)
alessandro damico true that. Feel vs technicians
Holy shit... Nobody has or ever will be able to play like Shawn Lane.
You can pick your friends, you can pick your nose, but you can't pick like Shawn Lane!
Ah! I love guitarists because I used to be one.
I don't understand how Troy was wrong? He IS downward pickslanting, is he not? Shawn plays with the pick at an odd angle, hitting with the trailing edge rather than the leading edge, but I'm fairly sure it's still downward pick slanting oriented. You can hold the pick up like that and still angle it downwards.
Stuart Kristensen watch the video
I did, or I wouldn't have commented. I don't understand the argument. Not sure what I'm missing
As far as I can tell, Shawn is holding the pick with two fingers and thumb, playing trailing edge with a downward slant
If the argument is just that Shawn is leagues ahead of everyone else in his technical skill, then I agree -- but I don't think Troy was wrong about his mostly using a downward picking slant
Well, SOMETHING odd is going on. First off, i think, as you are alluding to, that the angle Shawns referring to is not slant angle, but tilt angle. Second, he leads with an upward stroke, Third, the tilt is upward. That in off itself is very interesting. Also, he is the fastest and very accurate. Further, there is not only speed in alternate, but there is sick string skipping stuff too. M.A.B himself would be first to say that his playing is less interesting. "How does he do it?" Troy ask about MAB straightforward, but fast stuff. But not about Shawns inslanely difficult alternate picking lines.
I have a question for Patrick, and for most of the people who have commented on this: how many of you guys have actually subscribed to Troy Grady's "Masters in Mechanics" series? If you're just bashing his TH-cam Channel, and haven't checked out the wealth of material on MIM, you're not going to get what he's talking about. Troy's educational material helped me increase my picking by 100 bpm in less than 6 months.
What Shawn does with his right hand is not something new, or strange that needs to be "discovered" and "explained". He just does it incredibly well. His left hand on the other hand is out of this world...
small hands that stretch for miles
When Shawn went pop, we can here beautiful melodies in Get You Back, but when he was a bit serious, well, you can say that he was the Son Go Ku of guitar, or Bruce Lee of guitar, his speed, accuracy, tonality, just mind-blowing, and never been understood by any scientist that human can do such amazing speed. RIP Shawn Lane, your playing will always inspire us.
The version of get you back that Shawn played in the same reh video before this wild improv contains the greatest guitar solo I have ever heard..
You could be right my friend. Right up there. I think the other live version of Get you back from the Musician's Institute was even better.
@@zaccyo That's my favourite version too, Shane goes places there that few others, if any, have ventured. His playing just fountains of ideas flowing out of him, maybe only Hendrix at his best can compare.
@@GreenDistantStar Hey man! I've seen you around on lots of Shawn videos :) I completely agree with you, and I'm so glad there are a few of us who can enjoy and appreciate together!!
I actually clicked on your youtube channel, and we have a lot in common. Jiu jitsu, government corruption, Shawn Lane, and possibly a lot more. All the best Peter!! See you around these parts again soon I'm sure.
@@zaccyo Thanks buddy. Shawn was one of a kind, still the gold standard :-)
@@zaccyo that's my favorite one too..
I lived in Memphis between 2004-2008. He’s a local legend in Memphis. I’m sad that I just missed him because I would have def saw him live, if he was still alive when I was living there. RIP ✌🏼
Troy's studies focus on alternate/sweep picking mechanics, and even though Shawn did use those mechanics quite a lot, Troy already had other study cases for the technical aspects he shows:
- Yngwie and Eric Johnson are the case for 2NPS downward pickslanting, and sweep picking mechanics
- Michael Angelo Batio is the case for 3NPS and two-way pickslanting in general, whether in alternate or sweep picking
Shawn is an untouchable God and we love him, but he had different mechanics: He didn't seem to be a 3NPS player, he played mostly downward pickslanting, and used hybrid picking/legato as a mechanical solution for patterns that would break the flow of his downward pickslanting, or would use groups of sixes that would even out the picking pattern to avoid switching pickslants.
Shawn is definitely a beast to be studied in terms of his immense creativity, his mechanical problem solving, his speed and precision, and his physical ability to play such inhuman stretches, there's the spice of Shawn's playing.
Shawn is a timeless icon. If anyone played faster it wouldn’t matter as Shawn was so musical
th-cam.com/video/X4rHTpBp9-U/w-d-xo.html
shawn lane was a absolute monster guitar player.
indeed, so much more than "fast" as well, cheers
@@patricklefebvreguitar5744 Exactly. And it's NOT JUST that Shawn Lane played at a rampaging speed of 18 nps(if not from time to time faster than that): But it's also what he did with speed.
Greatest of all time
4:45 SNAP PICKING
I had that video 10 years ago
You can also do UP DOWN DOWN
HAMMER.
With that one
I call that a " Half Snap"
And
do 5 patterns 2 note per string pentatonics
Up Down Down Hammer next string UP
Arch back to Down ( string skip)
Down ( next string ) Snap Pick
Repeat
It is a combination of Economy legato and alternate...directional picking
Other than the amazing speed and uniqueness of his lines - and the amazing creativity - I don't see anything amazing lol. Ok dumb joke . There's a video of Shawn playing an Indian inspired piece - where he uses speed but it is very serene like some of the very best Virtuoso Violinists from India. Beautiful almost legato the crowd breaks into spontaneous applause - it is at a Bookstore ! Not guitar fanatics - but still responded .The most transcendent use of speed I have seen ....beautiful and tranquil.
@Patrick Lefebvre Guitar "The here you are troy part", is swybrid picking. Look up Marshall Harrison or Tosin Abasi, they use this technique and explain it. I have seen several players use it such as Brett garsed.
Well I for one, think Troy explained it perfectly. He wasn't poo pooing Shawns playing at all! He was just moving the focus on to other forms of picking besides downward pick slanting. He has already covered downward pickslanting technique exhaustively well in other vids. Yes Shawn lane was a master of it, no one is arguing that and it would have been awesome to film his technique up close before he died to analyze it.
This video is a bit silly. Troy has already performed a couple Shawn Lane solos, so his music is not unapproachable. Just because Shawn's pick slanting is similar to Yngwie's technique doesn't mean his music is not unique. I don't think any guitar player should be held up as a god where mere mortals can not touch their licks.
Link please
Also, while you're looking for a link that doesn't exist....a few things.....
1. I'm not sure you watched....because it's supposed to be silly, so....thanks?
2. Yngwie and Lane do not pick the same, at all.
3. I never mentioned Jack, nor shit about him being "some untouchable god" or whatever nonsense words you injected.
4. An addendum to #3, Paul Gilbert says "most terrifying guy of all time" and you, whom I don't know, disagrees. Take it up with Paul, surely you think he's mediocre as well.
5. The entire point, if you had read, is that Troy just improv answered that Lane uses "downward pick slanting", which he doesn't. It's in the video, Shawn, saying himself that he holds the pick parallel to the neck.
6. He uses about 10 different types of approach in that last clip alone in regards picking.
7. Thank you for your service.
1. I watched the whole thing.
2. I disagree.
3. I assumed that was your intent. If the intent of the video was that his licks are playable by normal people, it was not very clear.
4. I never said Shawn Lane wasn't the most terrifying playing of all time, let alone saying he was mediocre.
5. Shawn Lane was talking about edge picking, not pick slanting. I suggest you research the difference. Also, the best guitar players often don't know the specific details of their technique because it's so intuitive to them.
6. Feel free to list the "10 different types of approach" he uses and we can discuss it.
7. No problem.
Unfortunately, Troy took down the video of him playing Lane, but his soundcloud still has the audio of him playing the So What solo off of Centrifugal Funk. Check it out here: soundcloud.com/troygrady/25-sowhat
1. Stevie Wonder says your vision sucks.
2. You can disagree, but not really. It isn't subjective. This is based on physics, so opinions are irrelevant...........check.
3. Don't assume anything about me in any capacity, you came to a poker table with no chips homie.
5. Why are you even commenting then?Your ability to weave through sarcasm is comically inept. More on this later.
6. ALL TEN??? Awww shucks! Well we can play semantics if you'd like sugar tits.....I'll use my nomenclature 1. Hybrid 2. Straight Staccato-Alternate 3. Economy 4. Snap 5. Legato (yes it's with a pick, bringing me to...) 6. Finger 7. Chicken/Rolling 8. Swybrid 9. String Skipped Alternate 10. Sweep....you like apples?
8. You take that soundcloud nonsense and a $1.50 with you to NYC and try to get a cab...let me know how that works out. Difficult lines.....as in the technically difficult part where I said "here you are...." NOT A F'N chance he can play even 50% of the material represented here, and we both knew a video that doesn't exist would've been needed to prove otherwise.......mate.
Regarding point two: Sorry but justin is right here. At first glance I thought, that Troy was mistaken. Shawn uses extreme amount of edge picking, which masks his downwoard pickslant. Shawn is not a pure dwps as yngwie, as he shows in his lesson video power licks. When he plays sixes 3 nps it is pure altenate picking with two way pickslanting (something Yngwie or Eric cant do). But there are so many indications, that he prefers dwps (IT does not mean, that it is the only way he plays). Why?
1. Pentantonic sixes 2 nps is someting gypsys already did, EJ does, Zakk Wylde does and also I do it. It is just the perfect fast lick for dwps. Paul plays how shawn would at 2:07 and you hear immidiately it is not the way he would play it (Paul is two way pickslanter with no obvious preference for down or up)
2. Look at the Power solos lesson: He plays pentatonic fives and shows 2 ways to pick it, one being strict dwps with a downward sweep to change strings without changing the slant (troy stated that).
3. Shawn states at one point that he has to start one picking lick with a upstroke otherwise everything falls apart--->the dwps is more dominant here (Troy stated that).
4. You never ever will see Shawn sweeping UP only down as it is a part of the dwps string change anyway. A typical Uwpslanter like Andy James does upward sweeps it all the time.
5.If Shawn plays mixed (picked + legato), he will mostly play two notes picked on a string to avoid change of the slant (Troy stated that).
6. You show nicely how shawn uses hybrid picking. He stated himself he does it do avoid the "jumping around " with the pick. A finger picked note on a higher string just avoids.....an upstroke while changing to a higher string. Why to avoid it? Because it requires uwps.
Why nobody cant play shawns fast stuff well:
Odd groupings
Forget about speed fo a moment. Think groupings.
The most important stuff Shawn ever said about the fast playing he does imo is the rhytmic groupings which shows that he had a good understanding of konokol. He plays 3s and 4s, 5s and sixes, sevensand nines, something modern shred guitarists will avoid do because it does not work very well with strict alternate picking and 3 nps scales.
Paul in this video sticks to 4s for example, as it is more similar to the stuff he plays. Why doesnt he plays mixed groupings, what would be trademark Shawn Lane?
Playing 16th notes at 240 bpm (what so many do) has NO value at all, if you want to play shawns stuff. One will sound like MAB, Gilbert or even di Meola pretty much.
Play repeating 5s or 7s fast with strict alternate picking. It wont happen, without at least one hammeron/pull of, as the pickslant HAS to change when playing in ONE position...good luck trying it. Who else plays sevens? Yngwie. What a coincindence.
For uneven picked groupings (every note picked) dwps yngwie/EJ style is the best solution.
Shawn intuitevily used what he needed to use the most efficient way and used so many different techniques brilliantly. Matching Gilbert or MAB is sooo much easier than lane...because it is doable with good alternate picking.
I'm in the category of "Can't play it even half as fast". While it's fun to watch if you aren't born with a certain percentage of fast-twitch and ultra fast-twitch fibers in you (those are real terms) you aren't going to be able to play it like those guys no matter how much you practice. It's a good thing I still enjoy listening to Hendrix, Bloomfield, Beck and Albert King among others who have the "soul" that gets to me.
Does anyone know where I can find the full clip of Shawn from the end of this video? It's absurd!!!
Every professional guitar player with good technique has a formula for his or her picking style.Isnt that what Troy talks about?I don't get this video.Crossing strings with odd or even notes is the key to most players development as players.Yngwie,Gambale or Lane solved this their own way but it's basically all the same.Personal style is a totally different matter.Troy is not out to show people how to play like the guitar gods,he just explain he mechanics.Shawn had his mechanics as he shows in his instructional videos and used them for his unbelievable playing.
I know this is a bit late, but there is this video where shawn shreds a strat in his home, you get a really good wiev of his picking hand and if you look you'll see that he combines some sort of hybrid picking as well.
.
Dear Patrick and Brendan:
You both argue like someone, who watches the sky and says: Clearly the sun goes around the earth. Everybody can see it....everybody else is ignorant. And burn that atronomer, who claims that he has calculated otherwise.
Yngwie does not pick like shawn...blabla, because it does not look like it lol. What did Troy really say about shawns picking? Did he say he can play advanced shawn stuff ?
There were many good responses to the video, going into detail, that proove that....but both of you just ignore it calling them Lemmings and nerds. So my conclusion would be...you are not at that level yet and simply dont understand it.
So my suggestion: Post your hottest picking Licks and I will post mine. The latter just to demonstrate what "nerd stuff" like pickslanting enables you to do, If you understand it and aplly it, instead of making fun of it.
The readers of this thread can judge who has more authority in the given topic.
If I win you have to read, why Troy is right imo ( I wrote to Patrick, who obviously did not read it, ), AND argue in detail, why you think I am wrong at any given example.
Do you dare? I bet not.
Shawn lane said himself he was born with a freakish nervous system, plus the level of hand-eye coordination means he's probably just gifted 😆 marshall Harrison is extremely fast too, but it's all art. Just trying to play what we hear in our heads and finding the best way to play it.
Enter ray marchbank....iykyk
Hi Patrick, you still commenting here? I would love to know where you're currently at with this whole issue. It seems to me that he may be a DWPS more often than he slants his pick upwards, but he definitely slants in both directions depending on the pattern. He also appears to use extreme edge picking, which probably helps him get supersonic speeds!
You may have attempted to do some of the licks from his instrctional DVDs... There you can find clear examples of both Upward and DOWNward pick slanting depending on the lick and picking required. I would love to know what you think today in regards to the "snap picking" you described. Have you been able to progress with playing any of his stuff? I always put his exceptional speed down to a very high level of brain function as well as mastery at an early age. Cheers mate!!
i may have found how shawn lane picked 3 note per string, its 100% efficient and it dosnt use any pickslanting
Shawn was a one off that we all as guitarists are still chasing that dream of actually thinking we could ever play at this alien speed .I just wish Shawn would have been more appreciated for his talent and was able to make more money 💰 for health insurance to maybe extend his life much longer 😔 than he got ,he was taking way to young as many are .he would only be in his early 60s now and had so much more to give he was a magician by the time he was 16 on the guitar and a master by 20 like Jason Becker he was sadly 💔 stricken with medical issues that i really wish we had a cure for by now .to be gifted like that on a instrument is truly a godly gift.
Thanks for this.
th-cam.com/video/lNelAXI_RO4/w-d-xo.html
Patrick, I agree, Shawn's picking can't be reduced to a specific technique, he used quite a few of them and sometimes one after the other. The Not Again solo is a good example of that
Shawn is God.
Has he risen?
If someone does rise, I’d rather it was Shawn than that other guy.
Try watching this in a room with a strobe light.
I go to Shawn Lane when I need a reality check. This man is the second coming. RIP.
eh... the elusive "snap picking" ah la Andy James is just sweep picking. In his example its down (g), up (e), up (d), down (b), down (g), etc... The pick motion is very clear in the video. The "snap" he's referring to is the way he's choosing to articulate the first pitch louder than the rest in the phrase. In Andy James's case it's the first "G" in the set of four notes of the e minor pentatonic scale. Weather Lane is sweep picking or not, the snap he refers to in his technique videos seems to only relate to the way he's articulating the first note of each sequence. The picking sequences vary but not the articulation. Not really a mystery IMO.
Troy is correct in how Shawn picks but he has it to a whole other level.
Guys likely Rusty Cooley are insainly easy to replicate because they have meticulously worked out licks where as people like Shawn Lane and Jimi Hendrix do not have worked out licks, they are on the fly and improvised and as a result there are far more nuances then in a mechanically repeated lick like the guys you mentioned do, that is why it is nearly impossible to replicate a Hendrix or a Lane song where as it is vary easy to replicate a Rusty Cooley song.
I think most (but not all) fast players use TWPS, but most favor one or the other. I think that is what Troy is saying when he calls EJ, Ynvie, etc DWPS, he says they usually use DWPS, but switch to UWPS for brief times ( using slight changes to their wrist and fingers) but then go right back to DWPS which they feel comfortable with.
I consider myself a big fan of Troy's videos and I gave you a thumbs up --- just for the record
His technique was just a means to freedom.
And please ... no one say Yngwie (not taking anything away from YM).., just give Shawn the credit he deserves by saying he’s by far the most brilliant guitar player that probably ever lived. I’m not comparing but Matteo Mancuso’s playing style blows my mind as well🙏🏼
Shawn Lane was simply the greatest.
did Shawn pass on ? what a monster player!
Shawns picking hand is turned over more. It's a different way of picking for sure. Hands seem a little smaller and zero tension.
There are a lot of astonishing Guitar players, we all know that.....but then there are Shawn Lane and Allan Holdsworth.
"There'll never gonna be another Shawn"
(Guthrie Govan)
"Shawn Lane is from outer space"
(BUCKETHEAD)
"if I ever met a Genius in my life, that is Shawn Lane"
(Andy Timmons)
Whatever Paul Gilbert said is the video.
*Note*
And the Guitar wasn't even Shawn's favorite instrument, was the Piano.
Wow. I can't believe I've never heard of Shawn lane. Pretty ridiculous talent. Reminds me of Buckethead quite a bit actually.
He is Buckethead’s favorite player
backwards. bucket reminds you of shawn. he was here first.
@@davidmurphy5647 I was referring to the rider in which I personally heard them, not the actual chronology of their performance.
5:40 wtf what song is that?
Its improvised solo
He's casual playing like those genius fastest guitar players
Shawn was the fastest most accurate player ever. Hands down. But one may ask... In what universe is anything that fast even musical?
What do you think on vanhalen? Just wondering.
Paganini?
its not. give me hendrix or Clapton any day
If you mean there can only be one then it is holdsworth right? Listen to that clip at the end classic holdsworth but he plays with much better phrasing and tone
jakemf1 Holdsworth doesn't alternate pick. Thank you for your service.
Not sure what that has to do with anything Lanes pick attack is hard to hear and again those are holdsworth lines picked or not
jakemf1 me neither, which is why I thought bringing him up was comical. But that was you.....goodbye.
You're deaf, lol.
Shawn is still the king.
It makes no sense to speak about picking mechanics if you are not a biomechanic specialist . But having say that, for me the real value lays in the whole (only if you believe that is greater than the sum of its parts).Shawn Lane was and is a singularity, a radical other being.
I love shawns's music and his incredible abilities in both technique and as an incredible human being. But all this debate will be done when transhumanism is at its peak xD.
Shred some light on that Troy
Shawn lane a great guitarist but not everyones cup of tea.
6:00 are those pickups white or cream?
There can be only one... and his name is Shawn Lane... full stop. Go get or invent your own technique people. If that last clip didn’t show you his total mastery of the guitar, well... nothing will coz that’s pretty much the pinnacle of shred fusion with melody.
RIP Shawn Lane🤘👍🎸
Its obvious to anybody who isn't dumb af that Shawn lane was the fastest , most technical or even ''the greatest'' known guitarist that ever walked the planet
Shawn slanted his pick in reverse, I find it impossible for this to be done with simply downward slanting. If yo actually look at his video, you definitely see TWO WAY pickslanting. Troy will find this when he takes the time to slow it down.
krelbar I'd also expect TWPS, except he picked with a very steep angle, so i'd expect economy picking like Yngwie just because it'd be so hard to change that slant that fast
I little from column A, a little from column B....Shawn mixed hammer ons and pull offs, which would lead one to believe it is DWPS, and I'm not arguing that...but he could also alternate pick like a demon as well...if you watch a video of him doing this...he tilts his hand...and pick ...heavily when switching strings.
not really a fan of his faster stuff, some his slower licks can put me to tears though
Still worship at the altar of Lane... Only current dude approaching his level is Marshall Harrison.
With all due respect, Harrison does not have Lane's brain.
Even to this day No One covers Shawn Lane, why? If I could I would. No one can.
Roy Marchbank covers him flawlessy, many solos and tracks. Dudes been practicing 12-14 hours a day for decades
Roy marchbank he put shawn almost on .25 speed on youtube... that guy is probably what shawn would've been...
Where are all the vanhalen is god comments??? Now?
Kc howard once told me it sucked and turned it off. That is shred envy at it's finest 😇
I don't think pick slanting means what you think it means. I don't know what the purpose of this video is because you come across as rather childish
not anyone can do that. lol It takes a genetic advantage it is perfect technique combined with muscle and tendon ability.
I don´t understand the whole "competition" vibe here, it´s pretty pathetic. Shawn was a monster, he had certain techniques that were very much his own, but that´s not uncommon.
Watching this clip, it may seem that a technique is somehow valuable if it is difficult to replicate, which is plain nonsense. Any technique is valuable as long as it brings something to the music, period.
Shawn was Shawn, nobody could sound 100% like him, just like he could not sound 100% like somebody else... Mostly because most players don´t even want to, so they don´t put the time and effort to copy another player.
So what? Lane did not alternate picked all the way through? Ha-ha, he fooled me too. So it was all hybrid with sweeps and legato most of the time? What a joke. I know a guy who can sweep Lane in terms of alternate picking. His name is Anton Oparin and he can sweep and AP the same phrase, not to mention that he an absolute AP monster. Better then Guilbert
hehehehehe Yeah, I mean, Troy DID do some analysis of Malmsteen and Eric Johnson and Steve Morse etc. Prob with Shawn is that he is simply faster than Troy can copy. Period. He may well be able to analyze and duplicate the motions but not the phrasings at those speeds because Troy is NOT Shawn Lane and really, no one is. There are Shawn covers on YT. Respectable ones but mostly the REALLY blazing stuff I have not yet seen anyone copying at all much less accurately. Shawn had weird nerves and unbelievably limber fingers and he learned his shapes and made up so many shapes that most players never use. Those really wide pentatonic ones and so on. If I were Troy..... I wouldn't play it off like he seemed to do. I would say "hey, I could analyze it and do a vid on it but I'd never be able to play that stuff at those speeds so the entire point of my vid would be.... pointless. IE - ya can't do it! " hahahahah Lots of Shawn's stuff is a combo of picking and hammer/pulloffs. It's not at all completely alternate or economy picking. He did some hybrid picking as you see in the vid example.
Yeah, the whole "downward pick slanting" comment was absolutely ignorant on Troy's part. Shawn himself explained that he played with the Dunlop Jazz 3 picks ALMOST completely sideways (ya can't downward slant using a pick sideways). Anyway, glad this vid was made. It's accurate. I have watched tons of Shawn and saw him live a few times. Troy cannot copy EVERY player so I don't fault him for that but I fault him for downplaying Shawn's uniqueness and not giving him the accurate description that Paul Gilbert gave him - terrifying. I bet my house he DOES terrify Troy. When he terrifies Gilbert and Greg Howe, well, you've accomplished something.
Agreed, Shawn had lots of techniques this guy Troy Grady is trying to diss the whole situation because he cant make money from Lane.
Neither him or his dumb followers can play any Lane material.
There are like 5 guys on the internet who can play Shawn Lane stuff, and even then it's not there..
Hist mechanics 4 hechards, who is this TomBrady an why he no show hespect for da best Vale Tudo fiche besides Honda Housey and the 27 chimes world champ? Brandin Doormans make mince vegetabls from him face he no careful
Lmao.....how did you get here?
Moreover, elite players like Shawn aren't always fully aware/conscious of what they're doing technique wise -- they just do it. So it's possible he described his technique inaccurately. I trust Troy's judgement. Dude's obsessed and microscopically analytical, I have a hard time believing he'd make a mistake like that.
Most of Shawn Lane's playing to me was more guitar athletics than anything else. However at athletics, he was probably the best.
Lol you haven't really heard much then.
Sounds like crap.
Do you play the guitar?
Shawn was just superfukkinnatural😮
(I know I'm really late to this discussion, but I just found this video today.)
A quote from Patrick Lefebvre Guitar:
"The entire point, if you had read, is that Troy just improv answered
that Lane uses "downward pick slanting", which he doesn't. It's in the
video, Shawn, saying himself that he holds the pick parallel to the
neck."
It's been pointed out a couple of times in these comments, but it seems it's not getting through to you. You can hold the pick like Shawn did ( "Almost totally sideways") and downward pick slant at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive. Get a pick and hold it like Shawn describes. Now, while keeping the pick in this almost sideways position, angle it so the tip is pointing slightly towards the the ceiling. You are now holding the pick like Shawn and downward pick slanting (upward slanting would be to point the pick slightly towards the floor).
I understand full well, and he plain doesn't "DWPS".......send me a link of him doing so, and I'll entertain. Troy said Shawn uses (almost exclusively) downward pick slanting. I never said anything to the effect of sideways meaning that downward is some impossibility, it's just that he doesn't do it. The pick is adjacent 90% of the time he is using alternate picking.
P.S. still waiting for Troy to "get there", and not holding my breath.
Ok, fair enough. I don't know whether he did or didn't (Hell, I'm not even sure if I do or not - haha), and really don't even care. It just comes across in the video (and the the quote from you I posted) as if you thought Shawn didn't downward pick slant because he held his pick almost completely sideways. As if it had to be one or the other.
There's Shawn Lane, and there's everyone else, it's that simple.
th-cam.com/video/X4rHTpBp9-U/w-d-xo.html
finally! shawn lane deserve more credits than what he got now.
honestly, i dont think anyone can play shawn lane. that dude easily be top 10 greatest of all time.
easily top 1 for me :p
@vairagya sangeet spot on..
There's always melody and a song there with Guthrie, all I see/hear with Shaun Lane is very repetitive technique...imo.
@gary morrisBut shredders are the best guitarists. Noodles? The same can be said about any guitarist then. Also there are whole genres dedicated to fast singing and i'm pretty sure their fans think they're the best.
His a shredder from hell….. But, it just doesn’t sound like music to me…..
There are unbelievable virtuosos, incredibly fast players, pure lightning speed shredders. But Shawn is not one of them. He is something else.
I'm a huge Buckethead fan, and even he admits Shawn Lane is the best to ever live!!!!
@gary morris your ignorance of Mr. Lane is showing
th-cam.com/video/X4rHTpBp9-U/w-d-xo.html
@Thomas Grey Buckethead is really a simple player. Cant compare him to Lane
@Thomas Grey dude, they were great friends. B is great at what he does but what he does is fast 3 note per string basic playing.
I knew Shawn, not fucking bff's or anything but he'd come into the store I taught at and we'd talk for a while. Went up to his studio on cooper st. and hung out a few times.
He was a guy to be in awe over. Genius isn't really descriptive, savant or something could be apt. I'm not sure what this argument is really all about but I can settle one aspect for you. Shawn knew EXACTLY what he was doing, every micro-second of it. He would break down particular phrases or a cluster of notes and tell you not only the theory involved, but what they meant to him spiritually, citing tribes in africa or some other unexpected culture that he studied musically. His style allowed him to freely flow through unbelievable passages and make it look as if he was just doing it, and that's what it seemed as you watched him. It was natural. You'd find out if you could discuss it with him afterwards that he was aware of every single note, every stroke if his pick, every orientation his fingers took to accomplish it. I've never heard anyone speak about his piano playing either. He simply blew away almost any pianist I'd ever seen or heard. The man was a force of nature. And Nice!
Genius, Savant, Guru.....pick your superlative but the fundamental truth (so frequently ignored) is that Shawn was simply "wired differently". Physiologically, neurologically, perhaps spiritually......he processed information at a speed most people can't comprehend. I've heard so many stories from players or musicians that jammed with, chatted with him or even knew him well which point to a singularly brilliant mind. The whole argument about his picking technique is moot - even if (and I doubt sincerely we'll see anyone achieve it....) a player could match his picking speed would they have his phenomenally strong and double-jointed fingers? The parallel processing (evidenced by writing his name and telephone number at the same moment - one with his left h and, one with his right) weighing up the musical implications and rhythmic variations even at the very highest velocities?
I admire Troy for his work on dissecting the mechanics of picking and fretting but for all his obsessive taxonomy and fanfare (and despite the fact Tuck Andress wrote perhaps THE monolog on the subject) admitting that freaks of nature and prodigies exist, that we're all assembled in slightly different manners and therefore results may vary should be a caveat hammered home at the start of all his videos.
What's the Tuck Andress monologue you're referring to? Can you post a link?
Funny you should bring double jointed fingers up, you must've read or heard something about that because it was the case. I meant to mention that when I brought up his piano playing, it was most noticeable then. His joint above his fingernails, on all of his fingers, definitely were. I never asked him about it but when he sat down at the piano and started playing it was just, amazing.
But yeah, you are dead on with that!
MrTubularBalls I'll have a look around, not sure I have a link in my bookmarks but essentially it's Tuck addressing picking technique. Might turn up with a search :)
Dave Thompson Thanks. I'm curious, because afaik Tuck Andress is not a super-hyper-turbo picker. Great musician though, seen him live, awesome show.
2:33 easy for YOU to play, Paul, with them damn king crab fingers!
Coming from the man who reliably covers everyone from Bonnie Rait to DIO! Legend🤘🏼
@@Dogmanfogman :)
@Thomas Grey ty!!!
1:30 nice zoom. actually made it harder to read lol
There's still no one on the World scene that match Shawn's amazing technique - not Vai, Satch, EJ, Malmsteen, Paul Gilbert, Guthrie Govan, Tom Quayle, Matteo Mancuso, etc.. Not one! After 25 years of playing guitar my self, I'm still amazing at how mind bending and blurry his left hand was on those strings. Truly divine! May his beautiful Spirit rest in eternal pleasure within the light of the Afterlife.
I think shawn lane is the mount everest of guitar. The best you can possibly get. I’d also argue that Holdsworth would be up with Shawn. Although shawn has more speed, I think Allan understood guitar harmony and phrasing more than anyone else ever. And both have absolutely demon like techniques. Imo shawn and allan have got to be the two most difficult guitarists to try and mimic
YES! Behold The GOAT!!!
@@alexjackson8841 bro I hate to burst ur bubble but there are plenty of tech death metal guitarists who can play what Shawn lane does, Eddie picakrd, dean lamb, there’s a lot
@@haydenh3217 I know these players and they're not at the same skill level as shawn lane and cant play what he does like u said bro
Well prepare yourself to search ray marchbank... he makes shawn look like hes on .25 speed on youtube. Have fun being blown away
Part of the dilemma until fairly recently is that while Shawn was both an amazing musician and also amazingly prolific, a great deal of his musical output is like many early jazz musicians--It was played at the moment, live and improvised, and all too often went (unfortunately) unrecorded.
Some of this was because Shawn went on hiatus from the larger musical audience, either not performing, or if so only in local clubs near his home. Partly this was due to his health struggles, but also to a bit of disenchantment with the business of the music industry, and sometimes because he was such a perfectionist, and was always finding ways to improve upon his abilities not only on guitar but also piano that he couldn't bring himself to have his playing recorded for a public release, due to the fact that by the time he finished recording it, he would already be so much better or would have a better version to pursue in his mind that he would have been personally dissatisfied with the recording, and would find its release unacceptable to his own standards.
The point is that for a good portion of his career there was just far too few recordings or videos of him, which contributed to his not becoming the household name that he deserved to be, even amongst guitar players, and made it very hard to grasp what he was doing since there were even fewer people who had actually seen him play over much his career, let alone had heard of him.
Fortunately, he did start near the end of his life to do clinics and to get out and start recording again, and thanks to people who have access to those recordings and/or videos sharing them on sites such as TH-cam we have an opportunity to actually see what is going on.
But believe me when I say that the very first time I heard (and heard of) Shawn (maybe around 1982 or1983) play was on a track on one of Mike Varney's "US Metal" compilation albums. Shawn performed an instrumental called "Stratosphere II", and it did sound amazing, and was incredibly technical and fast, but as a 15-year-old novice who had barely had his first guitar lesson, I must confess, I truly had no idea what the hell was going on, and though I got that it was technically impressive, it never really sunk in musically what Shawn was doing--It was way over my head. Even to the extent that it did not impact me until maybe 15 years later when I began to learn more about Shawn's personal story, Black Oak Arkansas, his health issues, how he chose to hide away while he continued learning music (not just guitar playing) and collecting Jazz and Classical records.
So I wouldn't bag too much on Troy for not having featured Shawn as Troy is roughly my age, and judging by his animated story of how he came to chase Yngwie's picking as the Holy Grail for most of his quest to develop his own speed and picking technique he has had the same exposure that I had to players and equipment and innovations in pretty much the same chronology, and I can tell those of you who did not grow up both personally and musically from the early 1980s forward, you just do not realize how lacking in availability Shawn's recordings were for a long, long time from that point forward. It's like there were rumors of this really incredible guy named Shawn Lane, but for decades that is the most 99% of anybody knew about the guy--Just rumors that he existed, and was the most unbelievable player you could witness, except virtually nobody had. You would have had to go to Tennessee and find the club he was playing in, if he was even doing that at the time, because there was no recorded output coming from him.
I think it was after Guitar Player magazine finally sent someone to Tennessee to find him and interview him that Shawn finally began to re-emerge and slowly start to return to the public a little bit, but by that time he was really struggling with his physical health.
A lot of us find it sad that Holdsworth never truly got the broader attention or success, but at least he had others like Van Halen, Zappa, Vai, and Meniketti who would champion him and talk about him in interviews. No one ever seemed to do that for Shawn until after he passed away.
Anyway, that's my overly long explanation of why I do not think he gets his due either with average listeners, musicians (on guitar or other instruments), or music educators.
Thanks for writing this. Shawn Lane was a Halley's Comet for guitarists/musicians. Beautiful soul gone way too soon.
Shawn Lane was amazing I saw him at Audubon Park Memphis when he was 13 or 14 with Savage. Shawn was already better than 90% of the big names. He seemed to play fast in his late years live because that maybe was why he did that stuff but it has no musical value really. When he played at times his own compositions he valued the silence in between the notes like a Ritchie Blackmore while playing fast. It is the silence between the notes that make the speed clean and a feel. Shawn could play with feel and it gave me goosebumps. He was a genius. He did the same thing when he played Classical Piano. He was brilliant.
No one like Shawn Lane. No one.
This whole video totally misses the point. Confusing picking mechanics with avant-garde note selection via complex, non-traditional left hand patterns. Hybrid picking and pick sweeping movements are very common among players who tend to use downward pick slanting (not to be confused with edge picking [it's always confused with edge picking]).
Not taking any side because there really isn't one take, but the amazing Shawn Lane says in the video his pick angle was flat, he not did not say anything about a slant. I've watched a few of Troy Grady's videos and he makes a distinction between angle and slant. I can't imagine why anyone would be so inclined to make a video thinking the posts in question are implying Shawn Lane's playing is 'easy' if you can (or can't) play Yngwie or Eric Johnson lines. How a person picks is only one part of the equation, and not even the most important one in my opinion.
Nothing special. Just Shawn Lane cutting heads.
Another video to check out is "Shawn Lane Talks About Speed" where he discusses his method to try to increase playing speed that is pretty interesting because it's totally at odds with what the "accepted wisdom" is with regards to speed playing.
"Roy Marchbank"!! Check him out, has a TH-cam channel, covers Shawn's stuff, and is even faster than Lane.. never thought I'd see it, but tis fact. Again "Roy Marchbank"
The most amazing thing about Shawn for me was the fact that as advanced as his technique was he was equally gifted with vocabulary . His musicianship was astonishing , he could play any style at any level and just deliver perfection . He was the most gifted mimic I've ever heard as well . For all the guys who think he was all shred check out his rendition of All Blues with Bunny Brunel on TH-cam .
I dont think you understand what Troy is saying at all. Shawn is just faster at them. There is no secret to crack there.
The same techniques are in a more accessible form, recorded in higher quality, by other guitarists who are simply not playing and thinking as fast.
That does not diminish the other guitarists, even if the poster of this vide would have you believe otherwise.
My two cents: Joe Chawki, in my opinion, is someone you should check out - he is a left handed player who strings upside down and musically he's very interesting. He does some occasional runs that remind me of Shawn. He put out a solo record "Nazar" a year ago or so. He's also a music educator and - well, go check out his youtube page for some of his licks and lessons. Check out his "Passing Tones Pentatonics" or some of his whole tone or diminished videos.
Joe is sick🙏
We need to share this one for sure, THANK YOU. And when I worked with Shawn in the studio we discussed picking techniques a lot but the most fun was watching him doodle around with hybrid system of chicken picking and finger picking simultaneously that sounded like he had kicked on a delay pedal until you realized he was doing it on an acoustic. I really wish we had video of him doing the acoustic picking tricks. - CB
so what is this about?
are you trying to make troy look as a dumbass or shawn as a shredder?
shwan was a great musician and troy is a great teacher (with a channel focussing on mechanics, neither theorie nor phrasing).
this thing puts a bad light on two great guys.
rotze2007 how on earth does this make Shawn look bad? Did Troy put out a memo for you people? Lemmings...
try to imagine what you'd think what kind of musician he is if you'd see him for the first time in your video.
thanks for your reply - showing how you handle opinions difefrent from yours. get a life.
rotze2007 you're on my channel homie, "get a life" is irony at its finest.
is it? it's your channel which means you spend your time creating this crap.
anyhow you're right, visiting this channel is a complete waste of time - therfor i'm out
If you want a guitarist who can play Shawn Lane stuff note for note and also faster than Lane could (he has covered his solo note for note on Shawn Lane channel) look up Roy Marchbank. Now, understand that this is not to put Shawn down, he was great, but the stuff that Roy plays, at those speeds, is so unique that he literally seems to be the only person on this planet that can do it!
If you watch enough of his videos I think that you will notice that he uses both so called "pick slants" (I've always called them "picking planes"). Shawn was not some beginner guitarist, he could do more than a few tricks. He also blended in a lot of hammers and pull-offs.