Having more POE not always translates to best performance during downhill. The more PoE the more pedal kick effect will be introduced based on the suspension design. Overall if you are going downhill primary I would say 30-40 Poe is most you should go for. For technical climbing , more PoE definitely will be beneficial.
I think it depends a lot on the bikes suspension mechanics as well. My first bike had like 30 POE then got a full suspension with 76 POE and it sure does feel a lot more quality and sounds so much better. I9 is tempting but 600+ may be overboard haha.
this has been largely myth busted. only at very low speed in low gears is it noticeable, on some suspension designs. so if you are doing trials or wheelie drops it might be slightly noticeable, in some circumstances, maybe.
Georgi, you are 100% wrong. Unless you are traveling at a snails pace, or, your bike has abysmal kinematics, pedal kickback is not something you need to worry about - it's not a real world issue. And even if it WERE, low engagement hubs wouldn't eliminate it, it would just lower the frequency and make your suspension performance more unpredictable, but really that is a moot point.
The original HUGI ratchet hub design had a single spring similar to the new Ratchet EXP design. DT changed it to use two springs instead of one to avoid slipping issues that we are seeing with some ratchet EXP users. The old ratchet design is tried, true and simpler to service compared to the newer EXP.
@@LoveMTB Agreed! The 54T upgrade on my 350s have me set for life. I forgot to ask, but have you tried Chris King hubs? Since those hubs essentially use a ratchet system as well.
@@LoveMTB It's got 18 clicks, I just checked. It doesn't seem like the crank moves much before it engages, though 18's a low number. It seems like they could just put whatever number was best for the bike intent since the cost would be near identical. Maybe they think 18 is best for enduro?
Hi, I love your channel and you’ve convinced me to buy the Erase Hubs for my next build. Have a couple questions though, if you have time to answer. i live in Charlotte, NC, USA. How is shipping worked out? Do i really need to submit my SSN/TIN and pay with a wire transfer? Is there a way to pay with a credit card? Also how is customs handled?
Sin ser muy experto en la materia los duke tienen muy buena pinta.Aqui en España mucha gente lleva ruedas duke y están dando un resultado magnífico.Gracias por tus vídeos
@@trentvlak I see says the blind man, I'm from Australia and bought 29 MTB second hand from my mate with the rims on it, cost 2k complete for both rims and arent common here, the rims are one of the strongest iknow that much, maybe mine are a mm too loose and that frees them up, overall the racers I've had these by far roll with no resistance, Mx hubs I'm sure the are with syntace spokes and syntace W35 rims 👍
Love the ratchet system. Have it en 2 of my bikes and an extra carbon wheelset running 350 hubs. The Scott Spark+ came with Syncros hubs from factory, and when I pulled on the cassette... Suprise! Ratchet system inside! On my eBike I decided to go with a bombproof wheelset and for that I used super strong WTB HTZ rims paired with DT Swiss 350 Hybrid hubs which use steel ratchets and freehub body. Super glad. Super easy to service. And can play with exchanging ratches and POE's between em all. Great video mate! Cheers
I have 108 points of engagement and don't have any issue of pedal kick back at all during downhill rides. I was only almost kick by a horse because of the beast sounds of my rear hub🙃
I have several hubs from CK,ONYX,Hadley Hope and White Industry. I like hubs and custom wheels lol. One thing that I noticed is external variations in flange width. Even though you have identical sized axles a Mtn standard 110x15 /148x12 or a gravel 100x12/142x12. The hub shell flange by some brands is narrower than other brands. From a purely structural strength perspective obviously wider is better. Obviously other variables are considered like asymmetrical rims spoke holes and other factors. But I just prefer wider flanged hubs and try to look up those details before choosing a new hub.
Great video as always. These hubs look really strong and would love to have a set of rims built around them. A follow up video for sure on how they handled the trails .
Thanks for the insights. Looking forward for the following up video - interested in, to see how Duke and Erase hold up in harsh conditions, cause the sealing looks poor and the mechanic reminds me of some Koozer hubs which i bought from china a couple of years ago.
I prefer the legacy ratchet hub technology from dt swiss. It allows me more flexibility to switch out the ratchets for different riding purposes. The exp design makes me think dt Swiss is deterring upgradeability as to promote the option to only buy new hubs. A fixed ratchet is more difficult to upgrade, case in point with the 370 hub where you would need special tools to remove the three pawl hub and install ratchet hubs. I removed the three pawl hub and installed the ratchet hubs on my dt swiss e1900’s and it was almost impossible, but I did it. That’s good that the patent expired, I did see a hub with the ratchet ln xd driver on Jenson USA. Yay more options.
The "ratchet ring" or "ring nut" is actually a feature on DT Swiss. No matter whether you buy their (often cheaper) 3-pawl hubs like the 1900 series or 370s or the top of the line 180s - you can buy the tools to change the ring nuts to make it easier (and there are cheap knockoffs of the tools, too ;-)) and if you remember to order the right dust-covers and spacers any DT Swiss hub will be convertible to classic ratchet or EXP (the EXP is just another ring-nut). Not sure what troubles you ran into with your e1900, apart from a spacer difference due to a missing dust-cover it was smooth sailing here. I think the core argument for EXP was that they can move the inner bearing further out since it sits behind the EXP surface which is supposed to reduce wear and increase stability but #marketing. DT Swiss hubs are like the AK47 of hubs, you can literally replace any part from the shell down to the internals, if you have a lathe, you can even make some of the spare parts yourself... Look at Ztto hubs on ALI-Express - those guys are copying the DT Swiss design almost 1:1 including the ring-nuts and they definitely don't provide the precision and metallurgy DT Swiss has to offer, but if you switch out the ratchets and ring-nut against DT Swiss parts (prematurely or after damaging the original parts), you have great hubs for sub CAD $100. If you are looking for something that just works without the Industry 9 or Chris King Buzz sound, that has easy-to-replace internals that you can buy almost everywhere and that is easy to service (open, clean, grease, close), I think DT is still pretty unbeatable, but the way I read your comment we are in agreement on that anyways 🙂
@@ChristianEilers it was a stubborn ring nut for the three pawl system, it took a large pipe wrench and some elbow grease to remove. I got a 60t ratchet kit that came with everything to fully convert the 370 hub from a three pawl hub to a star ratchet.
You are always introducing me to new stuff. Those Duke hubs look very interesting. So is the titanium ratchet on the freehub body not supposed to wear out?
Cool finds! They both look like they have done a nice job in advancing DT's ratchet design. These hubs put me in a difficult spot though as I will only choose J-bend and centerlock together. I'm on a '22 350 set with RF ARC Offset 30 rims and DT Comp spokes and brass nipples..... although I have a set of new centerlock V2 Hunt Trail Wides on order for no other reason than I wanted to try something new that was pre-built. It just money after all, right?!
3 sets of dt Swiss hubs between 2 bikes. One set of 350s laced to reserve rims, and the other 350s in that size laced to alloy. (Both of those are 29 inch). Another set of DT swiss 370 downhill hubs on the dh bike, (27.5 wheels). Part of that is that I’m in the US, and those other boutique brands would be hard to afford with VAT and customs. The other is that they’re just so functional. They’re not as noisy as I nine. For me that’s a slight plus. Great video.
I do like the dukes. I have been using only Chris kings hubs literally for 10+ years with no issues. I do have a new set of wheels that came with dt Swiss 240. It has been few months and so far they are ok. The only thing I have seen are the rear hub have develop some indentation from the cassette. I have to say the duke’s titanium hub seems appealing. I wonder if the titanium hub flexes at all.
I’ve changed now from TrailMech to DT 350 because of the bad spare part delivery time of TrailMech. I’ve upgraded the 350 with a 60t ratchet from China which is half the price but runs perfect by now…
I just went with Onyx Vesper for my new wheel build.. Hadley also makes really nice hubs that are much lighter than before 295 g for the rear boost hub with XD driver and 129 g for the front hub!
I've got the Hope Pro 4 hub. Been using it for about a year now. It's the best hub I've ever used so far. There is a little pedal kickback on my long travel bike especially under heavy braking but it's not so bad that i can't deal with it. Good information as usual sir. Thanks.
@@LoveMTB I haven't taken the freehub body off yet. Normally I would have just to be thorough but this wheel was built by the very competent crew at Universal Cycles so I didn't see the need to check it. So the green seal at the freehub body needs to be pushed in after removing it and you cannot do it with the cassette attached to the freehub. Thank you because I would not have known to check for that. I feel like you dropped that little nugget very craftily....I appreciate that style very much. Have a wonderful day sir 🤙
I like my DT240 EXP, but was disappointed that you now need a special tool to change the ratchets. In terms of customer service, my hubs were subject to the ratchet recall. I had the replacement ratchet within 24hrs.
You could also take a look at Trailmech hubs. They're a Ukrainian brand, and their vortex system also uses ratchets, but the design is closer to Chris King than DT Swiss (albeit only slightly similar).
I picked up a pair of Bontrager elite carbons. They have their in house hub with 52 points of engagement. I bought the upgrade to 108. It's a sweet setup.
Great review! I reached out to Duke to purchase but found they do not ship directly to US. A disturbing company in CA quoted $750 for a set😮. Now BERD, just announced there Talon hubs. They are as you mentioned DT Swiss internals with the hook design on the flange. Maybe in the near future you can add a review of these as well.
Here in the UK, the hubs have to run in mud, rain and thus wash downs (hose not jetwash). DTs just keep going with zero maintenance. 10 years on one rear before scrapping as I could not get the free wheel off to replace. Yes I know there is a technique for this but where do you draw the line on longevity. Personally I have found DTs more reliable than CKs. Parts, compatibility caps and ultra reliability means I will not currently move to another brand. Dukes do look good mind.
The problem with so many bike hubs is with the quality of bearings. The 240 EXP if it's actually a good one is a pretty solid hub. There are a couple of places that hub has problems but DT has done their best to address them. The first one is the bore spacing on that inner ratchet. You know that's an issue if the bearings get crunchy quickly. The other one is the skipping which most of us are aware of. Both of these issues have been addressed in current models, hope so anyway. They also use a stainless angular contact bearing. This is good because industry 9 and many of the others use garbage enduro bearings. Ntn. Skf and nsk do make replacement bearings for a lot of the common sizes so there is that. Any one of those three is light years better than Enduro. If you have a Shimano drivetrain and you're building your own wheel. Do yourself a favor and just buy XTR hubs. They are the best in the business. The size of the bearing is much larger and it rolls on an angular contact patch in the hub. Unlike every other Shimano hub the XTR and the Dura Ace are designed to go around 10,000 mi and be extremely weather resistant. These are some of the lowest resistance and most reliable hubs you'll ever encounter. One of the only cartridge bearing hubs that comes somewhat close is Chris King. Excellent, precision, smooth, the problem is, they are heavy and expensive to maintain. You need their custom tools and you need their custom bearings
@@LoveMTB if possible, 240 EXP on the Sram bike. Xtr on the Shimano bike and the XTR hub is superior. I will however give DT props for taking care of me and helping me get a good functional rear hub. The customer service over there was really good. It's just unfortunate so many of the earlier 240 EXP hubs had one of two issues. The skipping, and or the bore in the inner ratchet was too small leading to excessive preload and deflection when you pressed in that 1526 bearing. In the end what it created was a very short bearing life. Like I said though, killer customer service, they sent me the parts to remedy this free of charge
@@gen-X-trader they did the work and paid for shipping in my case very good customer service indeed. Also 240 they replaced all parts and freehub without us even having an issue
@@LoveMTB That's excellent to hear, it sounds like they are treating most everyone that way which is why I will definitely continue to support DT. The other really cool thing I like about the 240 EXP and I'm not sure about the other models are the stainless angular contact bearings. When I cut apart one of the 1526 bearings to inspect it for wear. It didn't have standard races. It was a true hardened angular contact patch which is excellent for rolling resistance and long-term use.
DT sure mess badly with EXP. First hubs were plagued with issues. Maybe this is sorted now but i can't help myself and think is this EXP faulty or not ? I would hate to be stuck with no engagement out there in the mountain. I've had Specialized control sl hub which were touted as DT240 under license but but they were not smooth and eat bearings. After i made some custom washer they work fine but i guess specialized is not as good in outsourcing/QC than dt so beware. Apart from that i've had a number of 350 without isuues either 3 pawls or ratchet. Those duke looks interesting.
Hi all, I have hubs dt swiss 350 2022 and I love them, specially because as it is hard to find good wheels in 27,5 now I took some bespoke from EDP Racing here in Spain, so apart the hubs I took the rims from Duke and sapim cx ray. Really happy with the set and the weight.
Well, Mavic also has them now... So I use them. Don't really see the problem with POE, when it engages it engages... In MTB is more important than road, but still...
hey, i will go with onyx all day long but i'm poor and i can't afford it :) . Every time I jump I look behind me to see if anyone is jumping on me but there are e thirteen dh hub .... The second option would be dt swiss 350 with fewer points of engagment
Duke looks promising. Lightweight and titanium driver. Erase looks awesome with in house manufacturing, titanium driver and more common J bend. Both blow DT out the water. So currently 70 POE Is highest engagement for rachet system?
@@LoveMTB This week I rode my 2 bikes back to back. Bike A has 690 POE and Bike B has 36 POE. The feel is night and day in the pedal strokes. I can totally feel the dead space and the clunk noise before the cranks engage on Bike B. It’s not bad and as a secondary bike, I’m not complaining.
Interesting hubs, improving on the DT SWISS design. I would go for whatever has the most reliable and durable hubs, with best longevety. But I've not heard much about these hubs yet.
@@LoveMTB can check it out, gold color 60t ratchet, and its very cheap compare to DT Swiss 54t, so far quality is ok, hope it will last as the orig DT Swiss.
I have 2 sets of Swiss 240 hubs that have worn out their rims. Have a set of Roval wheels with Swiss internal and put in 56 tooth ratchet engagement, way too loud.
@@LoveMTB after sales service is really poor in my country up to a point authorised resellers straight up just reject warranties that's why user serviceability is a big factor in considering any component
@@LoveMTB I've gone through most of the hubs on the market and have settled on 50 poe. Higher has more kickback, noise, and sometimes more drag. I just find high poe hubs to be annoying. My optimal hub is a well designed pawl, 50 poe, like White Ind. It's quiet and very low drag. But their hubs are heavy so I don't use them.
@@LoveMTB Just got my Duke Hubs and Rims in. Hub weight was right on the money and the Lucky Jack SLS3 6Ters 30 were 9 grams lighter then advertised. Getting built now!
Those Duke hubs look cool. But I am a little concerned about the serviceability of these. Take the ratchet that is embedded within the freehub for example. Can that ratchet be removed? Sooner or later the ratchet teeth are going to wear out. I do not see the ratchets or the freehub for that matter listed as a replacement part either on Duke's website or their distributors / resellers. The ratchets on the DT 240 (even though it requires a special tool and a costly one at that) are readily available as a replacement kit. Easy serviceability and availability of parts is what makes differentiates DT from the rest according to me although they look industrial compared to others.
Any updates on those Erase hubs? They seem like a really great pair for those duke rims I wonder how they handle over time, if they suffer from any issues like DT's EXP (since it's a similar single spring design), got any insights on this?
The whole POE thing is bs. I ride every kind of bicycle for over a quarter century and never needed a particular high POE freehub. It is all marketing. 36t is great and double of DT's original 18t. Much more important irl is longevity. Don't want to trash Erase or Duke hubs but I doubt they last as long as even a DT350.
@@LoveMTB and it's about time that you do a good video on servicing them. There are videos that cover greasing and replacing the spacer in the internal splines, but no video in English shows that along with replacing the ball bearings, which should be done annually to extend hub life. It's not difficult if you know your way around Shimano service manuals, bit it would be nice to see a comprehensive video covering it.
You could use more grease i guess, but DT Swiss are not super loud. Maybe heavier grease, but not much room for grease, so won't make much of a difference, but freshly greased is quieter.
I think this obsession for POE is getting out of hand, for 5 years i ve been ridding Sram X0 hubs with 54 POE, now i bought new wheels with Dt 240 with 36 POE and i did not notice any difference, DT swiss seems to make good hubs, but what i dont like about the new EXP design is that you have to remove ratchet with special tool to replace bearing. Time will tell how it will compare to my Sram X0 hubs, i rode them for about 6500km and did not change bearings or anything, and still run smooth as new.
Witam używam Dt Swiss 350 drugi rok w Trek xcaliber 8 ze względu na boost 141 mm jedyna konfiguracja która się powiodła do tego roweru jeżdżę drugi sezon i są niezawodne pozdrawiam😀
I understand your policy of not discussing prices because they are relative to location, taxes etc, but you could at least say something like: Erase is double the price of a DT240 at my local bike...
@@LoveMTB just the rear hub costs about as much as my wheelset. It would end up on a shelf as decoration :)), but that's just me. They do look awesome.
I have 54T DT Swiss I don't notice the pedal kickbike when riding. But I would definitely not go for any lower than that, my previous hubs were Hopetech had 8 and something degrees, but DT has 6 and something. It's a a significant difference for me. I really notice it. But I would not mind even quicker engagement. I ride a Geometron G1, not crazy pedal kick back, but defenitely is some.
Duke hubs are made by Erase in Belgium, hence the very similar freehub design and 1 only offering SP and the otther J-Bend
Having more POE not always translates to best performance during downhill. The more PoE the more pedal kick effect will be introduced based on the suspension design. Overall if you are going downhill primary I would say 30-40 Poe is most you should go for. For technical climbing , more PoE definitely will be beneficial.
I have 54t Dt Swiss 350, no issues with too much pedal kickback, I ride a Geometron G1. But defenitly is some kickback.
I think it depends a lot on the bikes suspension mechanics as well. My first bike had like 30 POE then got a full suspension with 76 POE and it sure does feel a lot more quality and sounds so much better. I9 is tempting but 600+ may be overboard haha.
this has been largely myth busted. only at very low speed in low gears is it noticeable, on some suspension designs. so if you are doing trials or wheelie drops it might be slightly noticeable, in some circumstances, maybe.
Georgi, you are 100% wrong. Unless you are traveling at a snails pace, or, your bike has abysmal kinematics, pedal kickback is not something you need to worry about - it's not a real world issue. And even if it WERE, low engagement hubs wouldn't eliminate it, it would just lower the frequency and make your suspension performance more unpredictable, but really that is a moot point.
@@101NomadDreams I can definitely feel my hubs engage when suspension is compressed... Always hear that hub clunk
Love your concise reviews. Keep it simple with low production value and I’ll keep watching.
i know there is nothing wrong with my current bike set-up
but after watching your vids and reviews makes me want to upgrade some of my components 😅
The original HUGI ratchet hub design had a single spring similar to the new Ratchet EXP design. DT changed it to use two springs instead of one to avoid slipping issues that we are seeing with some ratchet EXP users. The old ratchet design is tried, true and simpler to service compared to the newer EXP.
@@LoveMTB Agreed! The 54T upgrade on my 350s have me set for life. I forgot to ask, but have you tried Chris King hubs? Since those hubs essentially use a ratchet system as well.
EXP sucks. I won't buy it.
I use DT Swiss LN Star Ratchet DT370's on my new Pivot. Nice and strong and most importantly, quiet.
They're not bad especially when thinking that they weren't designed for the ratchet to start with.
@@LoveMTB It's got 18 clicks, I just checked. It doesn't seem like the crank moves much before it engages, though 18's a low number. It seems like they could just put whatever number was best for the bike intent since the cost would be near identical. Maybe they think 18 is best for enduro?
Hi, I love your channel and you’ve convinced me to buy the Erase Hubs for my next build.
Have a couple questions though, if you have time to answer. i live in Charlotte, NC, USA. How is shipping worked out? Do i really need to submit my SSN/TIN and pay with a wire transfer? Is there a way to pay with a credit card? Also how is customs handled?
It can be a bit of a pain, I suggest reaching out to them directly. I'm in Canada...
Sin ser muy experto en la materia los duke tienen muy buena pinta.Aqui en España mucha gente lleva ruedas duke y están dando un resultado magnífico.Gracias por tus vídeos
I have syntace mx torque on my MTB, my bike flies, sounds tuff and been reliable for years , thanx for your video🤙👍
I have a set of Syntace boost hubs but they are draggy. They prioritize sealing and durability over rolling efficiency.
@@trentvlak I see says the blind man, I'm from Australia and bought 29 MTB second hand from my mate with the rims on it, cost 2k complete for both rims and arent common here, the rims are one of the strongest iknow that much, maybe mine are a mm too loose and that frees them up, overall the racers I've had these by far roll with no resistance, Mx hubs I'm sure the are with syntace spokes and syntace W35 rims 👍
Love the ratchet system. Have it en 2 of my bikes and an extra carbon wheelset running 350 hubs. The Scott Spark+ came with Syncros hubs from factory, and when I pulled on the cassette... Suprise! Ratchet system inside! On my eBike I decided to go with a bombproof wheelset and for that I used super strong WTB HTZ rims paired with DT Swiss 350 Hybrid hubs which use steel ratchets and freehub body. Super glad. Super easy to service. And can play with exchanging ratches and POE's between em all. Great video mate! Cheers
I have 108 points of engagement and don't have any issue of pedal kick back at all during downhill rides. I was only almost kick by a horse because of the beast sounds of my rear hub🙃
You should make a review on syntace mx, those hubs are beyond amazing.
I have several hubs from CK,ONYX,Hadley Hope and White Industry. I like hubs and custom wheels lol. One thing that I noticed is external variations in flange width. Even though you have identical sized axles a Mtn standard 110x15 /148x12 or a gravel 100x12/142x12. The hub shell flange by some brands is narrower than other brands. From a purely structural strength perspective obviously wider is better. Obviously other variables are considered like asymmetrical rims spoke holes and other factors. But I just prefer wider flanged hubs and try to look up those details before choosing a new hub.
Got it. By thefault the straightpull hub flanges are sloser together.
I've noticed this. It seems with the latest 52t sprockets, manuf have felt comfortable pushing those ds spokes out farther.
Great video as always. These hubs look really strong and would love to have a set of rims built around them. A follow up video for sure on how they handled the trails .
Erase hubs, Duke rims and Sapim flat spokes, the wheels are just beautiful 😍😍
You deserve an extra 100k subscriptions....love your channel.
Thanks for the insights. Looking forward for the following up video - interested in, to see how Duke and Erase hold up in harsh conditions, cause the sealing looks poor and the mechanic reminds me of some Koozer hubs which i bought from china a couple of years ago.
I prefer the legacy ratchet hub technology from dt swiss. It allows me more flexibility to switch out the ratchets for different riding purposes. The exp design makes me think dt Swiss is deterring upgradeability as to promote the option to only buy new hubs. A fixed ratchet is more difficult to upgrade, case in point with the 370 hub where you would need special tools to remove the three pawl hub and install ratchet hubs. I removed the three pawl hub and installed the ratchet hubs on my dt swiss e1900’s and it was almost impossible, but I did it. That’s good that the patent expired, I did see a hub with the ratchet ln xd driver on Jenson USA. Yay more options.
The "ratchet ring" or "ring nut" is actually a feature on DT Swiss. No matter whether you buy their (often cheaper) 3-pawl hubs like the 1900 series or 370s or the top of the line 180s - you can buy the tools to change the ring nuts to make it easier (and there are cheap knockoffs of the tools, too ;-)) and if you remember to order the right dust-covers and spacers any DT Swiss hub will be convertible to classic ratchet or EXP (the EXP is just another ring-nut). Not sure what troubles you ran into with your e1900, apart from a spacer difference due to a missing dust-cover it was smooth sailing here.
I think the core argument for EXP was that they can move the inner bearing further out since it sits behind the EXP surface which is supposed to reduce wear and increase stability but #marketing. DT Swiss hubs are like the AK47 of hubs, you can literally replace any part from the shell down to the internals, if you have a lathe, you can even make some of the spare parts yourself...
Look at Ztto hubs on ALI-Express - those guys are copying the DT Swiss design almost 1:1 including the ring-nuts and they definitely don't provide the precision and metallurgy DT Swiss has to offer, but if you switch out the ratchets and ring-nut against DT Swiss parts (prematurely or after damaging the original parts), you have great hubs for sub CAD $100.
If you are looking for something that just works without the Industry 9 or Chris King Buzz sound, that has easy-to-replace internals that you can buy almost everywhere and that is easy to service (open, clean, grease, close), I think DT is still pretty unbeatable, but the way I read your comment we are in agreement on that anyways 🙂
@@ChristianEilers it was a stubborn ring nut for the three pawl system, it took a large pipe wrench and some elbow grease to remove. I got a 60t ratchet kit that came with everything to fully convert the 370 hub from a three pawl hub to a star ratchet.
You are always introducing me to new stuff. Those Duke hubs look very interesting. So is the titanium ratchet on the freehub body not supposed to wear out?
Cool finds! They both look like they have done a nice job in advancing DT's ratchet design. These hubs put me in a difficult spot though as I will only choose J-bend and centerlock together. I'm on a '22 350 set with RF ARC Offset 30 rims and DT Comp spokes and brass nipples..... although I have a set of new centerlock V2 Hunt Trail Wides on order for no other reason than I wanted to try something new that was pre-built. It just money after all, right?!
3 sets of dt Swiss hubs between 2 bikes. One set of 350s laced to reserve rims, and the other 350s in that size laced to alloy. (Both of those are 29 inch). Another set of DT swiss 370 downhill hubs on the dh bike, (27.5 wheels). Part of that is that I’m in the US, and those other boutique brands would be hard to afford with VAT and customs. The other is that they’re just so functional. They’re not as noisy as I nine. For me that’s a slight plus. Great video.
Great information and production! Thanks
I do like the dukes. I have been using only Chris kings hubs literally for 10+ years with no issues. I do have a new set of wheels that came with dt Swiss 240. It has been few months and so far they are ok. The only thing I have seen are the rear hub have develop some indentation from the cassette. I have to say the duke’s titanium hub seems appealing. I wonder if the titanium hub flexes at all.
Did not use any flexing, We use both the ERASE and DUKE for racing, rock solid, very very happy with both!
I’ve changed now from TrailMech to DT 350 because of the bad spare part delivery time of TrailMech. I’ve upgraded the 350 with a 60t ratchet from China which is half the price but runs perfect by now…
I tried i9 hydra hubs but found the high POE created an excessive amount of drag. I went back to DT 240 exp on my new wheelset with 54t and absolu
Absolutely love them
I just went with Onyx Vesper for my new wheel build.. Hadley also makes really nice hubs that are much lighter than before 295 g for the rear boost hub with XD driver and 129 g for the front hub!
Ah! The silence of that rear hub is just priceless!
350 all the way, quite like the look of them aswell
love your content man, always very in depth and feels honest to me. Another good video this one!
I've got the Hope Pro 4 hub. Been using it for about a year now. It's the best hub I've ever used so far. There is a little pedal kickback on my long travel bike especially under heavy braking but it's not so bad that i can't deal with it. Good information as usual sir. Thanks.
@@LoveMTB I haven't taken the freehub body off yet. Normally I would have just to be thorough but this wheel was built by the very competent crew at Universal Cycles so I didn't see the need to check it.
So the green seal at the freehub body needs to be pushed in after removing it and you cannot do it with the cassette attached to the freehub. Thank you because I would not have known to check for that. I feel like you dropped that little nugget very craftily....I appreciate that style very much. Have a wonderful day sir 🤙
I'm stuck between the duke, I9 Hydra and of course the 350's. J bend for sure. Dt wheels front 511's and rear 541 excite me.
Hmm...bang for the buck it should be the new 350.
I like my DT240 EXP, but was disappointed that you now need a special tool to change the ratchets.
In terms of customer service, my hubs were subject to the ratchet recall. I had the replacement ratchet within 24hrs.
Great video, Subscribed!!
Which of these two hubs looks like it is better sealed to you?
Welcome!
You mean Duke and ERASE? Or DT?
@@LoveMTB The Duke or Erase
@@arjunabernard8192 Hard choice...I would probably go DUKE for the weight savings. Otherwise ERASE are perfect as well
@@LoveMTB Thank you for introducing these super nice hubs to us. Now to try to purchase one in the states 🙃
@@arjunabernard8192 You're welcome!
@JPRacingBike has them!
You could also take a look at Trailmech hubs. They're a Ukrainian brand, and their vortex system also uses ratchets, but the design is closer to Chris King than DT Swiss (albeit only slightly similar).
@@LoveMTB I totally understand. Just suggesting in case you have not come across this brand 👍👍
as always, very informative and superb quality.
I picked up a pair of Bontrager elite carbons. They have their in house hub with 52 points of engagement. I bought the upgrade to 108. It's a sweet setup.
Great review! I reached out to Duke to purchase but found they do not ship directly to US. A disturbing company in CA quoted $750 for a set😮. Now BERD, just announced there Talon hubs. They are as you mentioned DT Swiss internals with the hook design on the flange. Maybe in the near future you can add a review of these as well.
$750 for a set is in line with other boutique hubs. But you can get a set of Extralite hubs for a little less from R2 bike.
Here in the UK, the hubs have to run in mud, rain and thus wash downs (hose not jetwash). DTs just keep going with zero maintenance. 10 years on one rear before scrapping as I could not get the free wheel off to replace. Yes I know there is a technique for this but where do you draw the line on longevity. Personally I have found DTs more reliable than CKs. Parts, compatibility caps and ultra reliability means I will not currently move to another brand. Dukes do look good mind.
I think DT Swiss hubs are the best. no doubt about it.
Not the exp ones.many problems.
Hi!! Nice video 👍
I just wanna ask what is the best hubs with the loudest sound that i can put in a roadbike ?
Thank you in advance
Hi, which one is louder the Duke or the erase hub?
With so many points of engagement in the cold , it’s not good on ratchet hubs. But they are pretty 😃
Why DT suggests 36T😊
The problem with so many bike hubs is with the quality of bearings. The 240 EXP if it's actually a good one is a pretty solid hub. There are a couple of places that hub has problems but DT has done their best to address them. The first one is the bore spacing on that inner ratchet. You know that's an issue if the bearings get crunchy quickly. The other one is the skipping which most of us are aware of. Both of these issues have been addressed in current models, hope so anyway. They also use a stainless angular contact bearing. This is good because industry 9 and many of the others use garbage enduro bearings. Ntn. Skf and nsk do make replacement bearings for a lot of the common sizes so there is that. Any one of those three is light years better than Enduro. If you have a Shimano drivetrain and you're building your own wheel. Do yourself a favor and just buy XTR hubs. They are the best in the business. The size of the bearing is much larger and it rolls on an angular contact patch in the hub. Unlike every other Shimano hub the XTR and the Dura Ace are designed to go around 10,000 mi and be extremely weather resistant. These are some of the lowest resistance and most reliable hubs you'll ever encounter. One of the only cartridge bearing hubs that comes somewhat close is Chris King. Excellent, precision, smooth, the problem is, they are heavy and expensive to maintain. You need their custom tools and you need their custom bearings
So I take it that you use XTR hubs only?
@@LoveMTB if possible, 240 EXP on the Sram bike. Xtr on the Shimano bike and the XTR hub is superior. I will however give DT props for taking care of me and helping me get a good functional rear hub. The customer service over there was really good. It's just unfortunate so many of the earlier 240 EXP hubs had one of two issues. The skipping, and or the bore in the inner ratchet was too small leading to excessive preload and deflection when you pressed in that 1526 bearing. In the end what it created was a very short bearing life. Like I said though, killer customer service, they sent me the parts to remedy this free of charge
@@gen-X-trader they did the work and paid for shipping in my case very good customer service indeed. Also 240 they replaced all parts and freehub without us even having an issue
@@LoveMTB That's excellent to hear, it sounds like they are treating most everyone that way which is why I will definitely continue to support DT. The other really cool thing I like about the 240 EXP and I'm not sure about the other models are the stainless angular contact bearings. When I cut apart one of the 1526 bearings to inspect it for wear. It didn't have standard races. It was a true hardened angular contact patch which is excellent for rolling resistance and long-term use.
@@gen-X-trader good to know. And it might just be used for the more expensive 180 and 240
DT sure mess badly with EXP. First hubs were plagued with issues. Maybe this is sorted now but i can't help myself and think is this EXP faulty or not ? I would hate to be stuck with no engagement out there in the mountain. I've had Specialized control sl hub which were touted as DT240 under license but but they were not smooth and eat bearings. After i made some custom washer they work fine but i guess specialized is not as good in outsourcing/QC than dt so beware. Apart from that i've had a number of 350 without isuues either 3 pawls or ratchet. Those duke looks interesting.
Yeah I’ll do a long term on all these as we’ve been using them since
just 240 and 350 for me, simply, durable and reliable! i love chris king and industry9
I got hooked on the DT Swiss hubs as I was able to switch the end caps and carry them to the new bike
Hi all, I have hubs dt swiss 350 2022 and I love them, specially because as it is hard to find good wheels in 27,5 now I took some bespoke from EDP Racing here in Spain, so apart the hubs I took the rims from Duke and sapim cx ray. Really happy with the set and the weight.
@@LoveMTB rims Duke Lucky Star HD Ultra 28h
Well, Mavic also has them now...
So I use them.
Don't really see the problem with POE, when it engages it engages...
In MTB is more important than road, but still...
Patent expired so..
I'm thinking about building a set of alloy wheels on the Erase hubs (I'm a J-bend guy). Hopefully the drag isn't too bad.
It is not, have fun with it
Thanks for sharing with us! When my 240 exp hubs gonna need to replace bearings I'd might try something else. ;)
next vid sound comparison ... prettty pleazeee
hey, i will go with onyx all day long but i'm poor and i can't afford it :) . Every time I jump I look behind me to see if anyone is jumping on me but there are e thirteen dh hub ....
The second option would be dt swiss 350 with fewer points of engagment
Cmooon, include a segment with audio examples of how the freehubs sound ;-;
@@carlomatik6392 that’s the follow up video 😊
Duke looks promising. Lightweight and titanium driver.
Erase looks awesome with in house manufacturing, titanium driver and more common J bend.
Both blow DT out the water. So currently 70 POE Is highest engagement for rachet system?
@@LoveMTB This week I rode my 2 bikes back to back. Bike A has 690 POE and Bike B has 36 POE. The feel is night and day in the pedal strokes. I can totally feel the dead space and the clunk noise before the cranks engage on Bike B.
It’s not bad and as a secondary bike, I’m not complaining.
Qvist hubs with double ratchet will have 128 teeth, but they are not yet available.
I have to choose Dt swiss , because i have an strange front axle standard 12x110. And dt swiss offer their conversion kit.
Interesting hubs, improving on the DT SWISS design. I would go for whatever has the most reliable and durable hubs, with best longevety. But I've not heard much about these hubs yet.
@@LoveMTB but XC is not about durability testing :)
240 EXP are used in downhill without any issues and last years
Are the 240's better than the 350's for an electric mountain bike? Just looking for the strongest hub. Thx
All those hubs look awesome. The Duke ones seem like they would be nice to build. Would be nice if they came in KTM Duke motorcycle colors :)
using DT Swiss 350 with aftermarket FOVNO 60t ratchet, so far so good.
@@LoveMTB can check it out, gold color 60t ratchet, and its very cheap compare to DT Swiss 54t, so far quality is ok, hope it will last as the orig DT Swiss.
I've been riding Hope hubs for several years
Onyx Vesper here. That silence is addicting!
@@LoveMTB I see what you did there! 😆
I have 2 sets of Swiss 240 hubs that have worn out their rims. Have a set of Roval wheels with Swiss internal and put in 56 tooth ratchet engagement, way too loud.
i'm loving the id360 from mavic
Nice comparison 👍
How does the sound of these three Hubs compare?
Which one is the quietest?
Dt swiss simply because the amount of spare parts available in south east asia makes it my ideal hub
@@LoveMTB after sales service is really poor in my country up to a point authorised resellers straight up just reject warranties that's why user serviceability is a big factor in considering any component
Im use dt 350 hybrid & 60t Ratchet Fovno from Aliexpress :)
Off topic. Can I use the m5100 derailleur in 12 speed with xt shifter m6100 chain and cassette?
Ah, Duke and Erase use the same freehub design as Extralite, but with ti instead of aluminum. I could go with less poe for these.
Less Poe? Interesting because people usually chose the highest Poe for the money
@@LoveMTB I've gone through most of the hubs on the market and have settled on 50 poe. Higher has more kickback, noise, and sometimes more drag. I just find high poe hubs to be annoying. My optimal hub is a well designed pawl, 50 poe, like White Ind. It's quiet and very low drag. But their hubs are heavy so I don't use them.
I have a set of mavic rims that use a ratchet hub design as well
I could use the tooth from duke into dtswiss 350? I would give it a try
What spokes did you end up using when you built up the DUKE hubs?
@@LoveMTB Just got my Duke Hubs and Rims in. Hub weight was right on the money and the Lucky Jack SLS3 6Ters 30 were 9 grams lighter then advertised. Getting built now!
Onyx all the way! Love that noise free ride!
Those Duke hubs look cool. But I am a little concerned about the serviceability of these. Take the ratchet that is embedded within the freehub for example. Can that ratchet be removed? Sooner or later the ratchet teeth are going to wear out. I do not see the ratchets or the freehub for that matter listed as a replacement part either on Duke's website or their distributors / resellers. The ratchets on the DT 240 (even though it requires a special tool and a costly one at that) are readily available as a replacement kit. Easy serviceability and availability of parts is what makes differentiates DT from the rest according to me although they look industrial compared to others.
I built my Chameleon 27.5" wheeled bike with Project 321 Hubs.
@@LoveMTB lighter and cheaper than I-9 hubs, not as noisy either. However, they are tough to get at present. Supply chain issues . . . .
Any updates on those Erase hubs? They seem like a really great pair for those duke rims
I wonder how they handle over time, if they suffer from any issues like DT's EXP (since it's a similar single spring design), got any insights on this?
@@LoveMTB sweet, thanks for the info 👍! I really like your wheel related content, these are super helpful 👌
I have extralight hubs n they sound like a machinegun going off
What about DT180 vs Duke?!
The whole POE thing is bs. I ride every kind of bicycle for over a quarter century and never needed a particular high POE freehub. It is all marketing. 36t is great and double of DT's original 18t. Much more important irl is longevity. Don't want to trash Erase or Duke hubs but I doubt they last as long as even a DT350.
Great points! I should do a long term review on these…
IT'IS SO EXPENSIVE TO BUILD A GOOD WHEELSET ON DT HUBS AND CARBON RIMS!
Although all my wheelsets are DT Swiss, I just want a completely silent rear hub. Shimano Scylence or something.
@@LoveMTB and it's about time that you do a good video on servicing them. There are videos that cover greasing and replacing the spacer in the internal splines, but no video in English shows that along with replacing the ball bearings, which should be done annually to extend hub life.
It's not difficult if you know your way around Shimano service manuals, bit it would be nice to see a comprehensive video covering it.
You could use more grease i guess, but DT Swiss are not super loud. Maybe heavier grease, but not much room for grease, so won't make much of a difference, but freshly greased is quieter.
I thought DT swiss had an option over 54t, no? I also doubt 99% of riders will notice a difference between 54t & 60t poe hub.
@@LoveMTB Yes I know that, but I thought they also had a higher than 54t poe option.
@@LoveMTB oh i see. thanks
Which one is the least loud?
@@LoveMTB niceee
Cool Hubs 😍
Excelente vídeo, pero falta el precio (€) de los bujes. Prefiero DT Swiss, barato y muy fiables. Saludos desde España.
Didn't recognize you without your hat!
I9 hydra hubs for me.
How's the reliability on those?
@@LoveMTBin my shot time of use, I haven't had any problems.
I think this obsession for POE is getting out of hand, for 5 years i ve been ridding Sram X0 hubs with 54 POE, now i bought new wheels with Dt 240 with 36 POE and i did not notice any difference, DT swiss seems to make good hubs, but what i dont like about the new EXP design is that you have to remove ratchet with special tool to replace bearing. Time will tell how it will compare to my Sram X0 hubs, i rode them for about 6500km and did not change bearings or anything, and still run smooth as new.
Witam używam Dt Swiss 350 drugi rok w Trek xcaliber 8 ze względu na boost 141 mm jedyna konfiguracja która się powiodła do tego roweru jeżdżę drugi sezon i są niezawodne pozdrawiam😀
and where is trailmech ?
Mavic ID360 hub!
I understand your policy of not discussing prices because they are relative to location, taxes etc, but you could at least say something like: Erase is double the price of a DT240 at my local bike...
Where are you located?
In Europe Erase is actually cheaper than DT240.
@@maximeganhy5745 it was just a hypothetical situation...
These look awesome, but I will stick with the 'cheap'. I would be afraid to take these out on a ride.
@@LoveMTB just the rear hub costs about as much as my wheelset. It would end up on a shelf as decoration :)), but that's just me. They do look awesome.
@@LoveMTB definitely
i9 Hydra!!
18 poe for me, no noticable pedal kickback when going dh. No need for o€hain
I have 54T DT Swiss I don't notice the pedal kickbike when riding. But I would definitely not go for any lower than that, my previous hubs were Hopetech had 8 and something degrees, but DT has 6 and something. It's a a significant difference for me. I really notice it. But I would not mind even quicker engagement. I ride a Geometron G1, not crazy pedal kick back, but defenitely is some.
DT Swiss only, no fake hubs
the erase hubs look like chris king ones
wheelbuild incoming
also chinese hub are very good !!! koozer and arc are most popular
@@LoveMTB good for the price and there are well made am riding on koozer xm490 for more than 2 years no probleme and am heavy guy 98kg
I had a koozer and it sucked. I sold it to a guy I didn't like.
Who cares poe Dt swiss are the best rachet hubs out there 54t more than enough for many.
Cheaper is better
None of these are the best hubs. Onyx hubs are boss!