Survey says the property has subsidence, what to do?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ส.ค. 2024
- So you got an offer accepted, paid for the survey and the surveyor has come back and told you the property has subsidence or as some people call it, 'The S word'. Time to panic and withdraw? No, keep your cool. There is far more to this than meets the eye.
I'll explain what the surveyor means, what you need to do next and how it'll tell you if there is anything to worry about.
Find out everything you need to know about buying a property at howtoreallybuyaproperty.co.uk/
#subsidence #property #house #propertysubsidence #buildingsubsidence #house #housesubsidence #structuralsurvey #structuralsurveyor #structuralengineer #propertysettling #subsidencecauses #subsidencemonitoring #subsidenceinsurance
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Really helpful, easy to understand and explained clearly. Thanks Tim!
Glad it helped!
Found this video really helpful as me and my husband are buying a house that has got cracks and found out it was due to a council tree close to the property but they sent the paperwork over and had shown they did the repairs and put in a root barrier which should solve the problem in the future but it still makes us a little nervy but love the property and gonna make sure it's full insured incase anything was the happen in the future.
Your video made me feel a lot better about it.
Great story Kimmii - just shows that sometimes it's worth digging a little deeper to discover what is behind things like cracking.
Thank you very much for this video - it is truly very insightful. I really appreicate that you explain this issue very calmly and logically, which Im sure has helped reduce stress for a lot of people.
On my particular situation, the RICS level 3 building survey says the following:
"Previously the property has suffered from some significant subsidence to the front of the property which can be seen around the front wall, particularly the front bay. The movement appeared historic and no fresh cracking was noted externally but some cracking was noted to the internal corridor wall. The cracking is thin but the walls have been recently plastered. The cracks internally suggest a pull from the front bay suggesting the movement is still ongoing. You are advised to arrange for a full report from a Structural Engineer, and any recommended works should be carried
out in full under professional supervision."
Additionally, the ground search for the property revealed: "Evidence has been identified that indicated an enhanced risk of clay related subsidence affecting the site (Shrink-swell score of 5 / 9). Seasonal ground movement (upto 100mm) may occur which could affect shallow foundations, or drainage; movements may be greater near to trees. Potential for enhanced seasonal ground movement will need to be considered for new building pipes or trees. Soluble rocks are present within the ground. Numerous dissolution features may be present. Potential for difficult ground conditions should be investigated, potential for localised subsidence is at a level where it should be considered"
Based on these two reports, I am quite concerned about whether to go ahead with the purchase. My next steps would be to get the structural engineers report, and would try to see if the sellers can pay for it. I am concerned that the engineers report ends up being inconclusive, which puts me in a bit of a tough spot.
OK. Remember this. The surveyor needs to make sure s/he is well and truly covered and some surveyors (not all) can go completely over the top with their doom. That may or may not be the case here. So certainly it sounds like a structural engineer is in order and just stay calm until s/he has reported. I've had no end of surveyors cry wolf only for a structural engineer to shrug his shoulders and say "All good here". Not always but more often than not. Seasonal ground movement is common in many areas of the country which means you might have to live with some cracking if you want to live in such an area and in an older property without deep foundations. Otherwise consider something more modern with more modern foundations.
Yes, I think this may well be a case that the surveyor is trying to ensure that they are covered.
I think this way as in another section of the report they mention
"With any property of this age, no matter how well maintained, defects are likely to be found on close
inspection. Very few properties of this age are without some form of defect, therefore consideration should
be given on whether the defects found are of immediate significance or can be treated as ongoing
maintenance. Although evidence of structural movement was found to the property, this appears to be
historic, however this does not mean that further movement will not occur in the future."
I will get the structural engineering inspection done, and will let you know what they say. Fingers crossed it is one of those instances where it is just a false alarm.
Thank you very much once again for your video and advice! It is truly very helpful.
Thanks for this video! Really easily explained and helpful. Cheers Tim!
Glad it helped!
Thank you so much for this video. Really informative!
No problem - glad you found it useful!
Very good help and advice, clears up a few issues and gives direction on this subject
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for this great video.
We are first time buyers and had an offer accepted on a property we really like. The mortgage lender informed us their valuation survey showed the property had been underpinned in the past, and we should note this when insuring the house. We have contacted the vendors and they have informed us the property has been underpinned to the front corner of the house. The neighbour (down the hill) put concrete down the drains which subsequently blocked and burst the pipes. They apparently have all the relevant paperwork/certificates etc which we are going to look at.
We are not sure of how to proceed. After watching your video I'm thinking to get a structural engineers report to see if the remedial work was successful and proceed from there.
Hi James - really sorry, not sure how I missed your comment. Did things work out with your purchase?
James Barlow Do you have any updates on it? Did you purchased house and get the building insurance ?
James Barlow Have you purchase that underpinned property??? Did things work out >
This is really helpful. My mortgage valuer said that there is evidence of structural movement and I have convinced the seller to carry out a structural engineers report. Fingers crossed it’s not subsidence!
Hope it all goes well! It will be really helpful for other buyers if you could come back here and give us an update as to how things went.
N Miah Did you purchase that property that has a structural movement? Please update !!!!
@@cathy__wilson4930 I had a structural engineer come out who reported that any movement relating to the property is historic and most probably due to settling. They asked I carry out a drainage search which I did and that recommended some drainage repairs that cost me £800. In the end I managed to knock off 25k off the asking price and get my full mortgage valuation so a win win for me. Property currently being renovated
@@nazmulmiah6058 so the property is not underpinned, right??
@@cathy__wilson4930 yeh no underpinning the property possibly had historic subsidence but no evidence of recent movement
Great video, have you seen many properties with cracks above newly fitted windows where it actually cracks the glass of a newly fitted window? I don’t imagine the vendor would pay towards surveys
Yes it certainly happens. If it only happened after the windows were fitted it sounds like weak lintels but follow the advice of the surveyor and get the appropriate specialist to take a closer look.
Hi Tim, we had some "shrinkage" caused by a tree, ex council house property, 65 years old built on clay soil, very dry weather last year. No sign of "heave" during the autumn and with "climate change" and prospect of dry weather continuing we went ahead with a polymer injection around the corner of the property completed by Mainmark. Works completed in a day, cost £6k. Immediate lifting of the affected corner and 20 year insurance backed guarantee. This seems like a good cost effective solution compared to underpinning.
Yes, possibly. However I am not a structural engineer so I can't comment. A structural engineer will normally recommended the best way forward and, as you have pointed out, this is not always underpinning!
Great thank you - really useful - subscribed 👍🏻
Welcome!
A very good detailed explanation
Glad it helped you
Very helpful, thank you!
You're welcome!
Very insightful thank you! Is a certificate of structural adequacy sufficient in the eyes of a mortgage lender / insurance company when a property has had a subsidence claim rectified?
Every lender and insurance company has different requirements. You'll need to approach them directly. show them what documents you have and get a response.
Really informative thank you .
Glad you found it useful :)
Excellent practical advice.
Glad it was helpful
Thank you for doing this video. We are selling our house, but the buyer's homebuyer survey suspected subsidence - we have a crack running down the side of the house. We went halves on instructing a structural engineer and he has said that there has been some historic subsidence on the back corner of our house, likely due to consolidation of fill material locally under the foundations, but sees no evidence to suggest this is ongoing and only a small risk of it reoccurring. He went on to say that if the crack was stitched with heilbars, he believes it's likely that no further problems will occur. I'm now convinced that my sale is going to fall through and we will have a nightmare to sell. Do you think this will be the case? Just to add, he said that the land the house are built on are is capable of withstanding large bearing pressures. Any advice would be gratefully received!
To me this is strangely vague language for a structural engineer - "he believes its likely". Structural engineers are usually more solid in their wording unless they think the house needs to be monitored over a period of months in which case they will say that. Personally my first port of call would be the structural engineer and to discuss with him why he is being fairly vague about things and what his recommendation is so that the current sale can go through or you can take action to ensure you don't face issues with the next buyer.
@@howtoreallybuyaproperty1661 Thank you, that's really helpful. I did feel like his report was sitting on the fence a bit and erring on the side of caution, rather than giving any definitive answers.
Thank you for this super informative video! I have a situation that I would love your opinion on:
I'm a cash buyer and I've been looking to buy a property with subsidence (stated in 2 separate engineer's report done by the seller). According to the reports however, the movement seems to be historic and not progressive, but I have plans to add a kitchen extension to the property so the possibility of any more subsidence scares me. I'm also not sure if the house has been underpinned (the agent said yes, but no proof yet). Either way, my fear is not being able to sell this house in the future since lots of mortgage buyers won't be willing to risk buying a house with known subsidence (even if the issue has been addressed). I'm now stumped...The house is really well located and is in general good condition otherwise. I'm just weary of buying a house and not being able to resell it in the future, specially if I end up doing renovations on it. Any suggestions? Is this always going to be a black mark on this property? Does underpinning serve as a guarantee for banks to lend on a property?
Thank you for your help!
First of all its important to understand that almost all properties have the potential to subside - especially period properties - so just because you buy one that doesn't have any history of subsidence doesn't make it 'safe'. This is especially true now because climate change has created longer and more intense periods of both wet and dry weather.
But do find out if any underpinning was done and where. It's often just one wall so that still gives the other walls the potential to subside.
Regarding the resale. Yes - the 'S' word does put people off so that should be reflected in the price you are paying. It is the same principle as properties by busy roads. You buy cheaper than other similar properties in the area because of the road and when you come to sell ... you sell cheaper.
Now if you are not getting a discount on this house that could be because the market is very strong in your area - not enough properties and too many buyers. The seller knows that if you don't "take a view" someone else will come along that will.
Regarding banks. The key is what your surveyor said when they valued the property. Did they value it at the price you offered? Or did they down value / put a retention on based on a structural engineers report? If they valued it at the price you offered then you will have no problems selling to someone who needs a mortgage because the surveyor has said "there is historical subsidence but I still value the property at XXX GBP" and that is all the banks are interested in.
@@howtoreallybuyaproperty1661 Thank you very much for the reply! I'll take all of that into account. I'll let you know if I end up buying the house =)
Hi, great video. I am buying a property and only just found out from the solicitors searches that it has been underpinned way back in 2007 a year after it was built but nothing since I’m really unsure what steps to take next
Check the status of the insurance. Is the property fully insured and how long has that insurance company insured that property. Insurance companies like to wriggle out of payments by trying to prove any new subsidence didn't happen on their watch so the longer the property has been with the same provider the better. Second see what the bank says - are they OK to lend on the property. If so that's a good sign that they have no concerns over this history. Overall l wouldn't be overly concerned. If the property was underpinned in 2007 and your surveyor saw no issues it means the underpinning was done right. That's not a guarantee that there will never be any subsidence in the future ... but that uncertainty applies to many, many properties.
Very positive advice thankyou
Glad it helped
Great video really useful, is your book available as an audio book? If not get on it. 👌👍
It's a good point Rob - on my list for 2021!
Great video!!! I am currently purchasing a property that had underpinned.
Too many unknowns here for me to be able to tell you anything. Check the current insurance policy is valid and ask them (the insurance company) about the certificate. Ask them if you are paying a premium because of the underpinning and if so how much that premium is. Overall though your situation is not unusual. There are thousands of properties which have been underpinned, sell without issue and make perfectly good homes - often more stable homes than some new builds! So just cross your t's and dot your i's to make sure you are covered.
@@howtoreallybuyaproperty1661 Thank you for the informative video!!
@@chojackieb3269 Glad it helped!
@@cathy__wilson4930 If the cost of house insurance is a deal breaker then it sounds to me that you don't really see this house as 'that special'? If so it does sound like you would be better off, and have more peace of mind, if you purchased something with less issues. Hard for me to be sure on all of this because I don't know absolutely all the ins and outs of the situation and your personal circumstances but if there are other houses out there that would cause you less worry go for one of them. Personally I've never seen underpinning as an issue but ... it's a personal thing!
@@howtoreallybuyaproperty1661 how about resale in the future?? Can it be sell at same market value with other non underpinned properties in the street?? I am worried potential buyers will put off and catious...
This was really helpful. My problem is that my house, which I am not selling, but has some cracking which seemed to appear over the last year. The insurance company sent some surveyors around who dug trial pits and took soil samples. They have said that the problem is caused by a tree (which I think is the council's, but still waiting on the council's comments). The insurance have denied our claim saying that it's down to poor design of the foundations. I have the original building control sign-off for the foundations, but the insurance company claim that the design of the foundations is not building control's remit. It's really frustrating and I am not sure where to go next. I have had a quote from a structural engineer, but I am a bit reluctant to start forking out money when I don't feel that it's our liability. Any advise would be gratefully received.
To be honest this sounds like an area where you need to take sound legal advice in order to find who is responsible for the repairs. Insurance companies are well known for resisting any kind of payout. Sometimes they just need a "shot across the bows" in the form of a legal threat in order to fall into line!
@@howtoreallybuyaproperty1661 Thank you or the advise.
@@g1ss any updates on yet? Did your property got underpinned after this subsidence due to tree roots?
@@chojackieb3269 Hi, apologies for the long delay in replying! I just remembered your question and the notification got buried in a load of my kids' notifications. In answer to your question, no, not really. We contacted the insurers who basically said it was caused by the willow tree in our garden and that the foundations on the extension are not to spec. (even though they were signed off by the building inspector when built). I asked them for some further advise and they said that if they were to carry out a repair they would remove the willow tree and repair any cracks in the brickwork. The council denied ownership of the tree, so I paid to have it cut down myself. We are planning on having an extension built, which will involve some engineering work. I am going to get the engineers to inspect the existing foundations when they carry out inspections for our new foundations, and then get the existing foundations either singed-off or recommend any necessary remedial work. Based on the insurance underwriters comments and the fact that the cracks haven't worsened, it definitiely seems like it was caused by the willow. The lesson here is, nobody wants to know and I am left with the problem! The insurance hardly seems worth the money!
Great video. Thank you. I received the survey report that stated the house is built on the moderate soluble rock. There will be in potential risk of subsidence. Actually, there is no structural damage even the house was built 20 years ago. If you were me, will you buy this house? Thanks
@Ring Ring - I don't have enough information to make that call. This could be a very cautious surveyor - just as these days you could say almost any property has "the potential risk of flooding" and 'poof', you have covered yourself. You might find a clue in the current insurance premiums. Are they higher than you would expect for a similar house in another area. That would suggest the insurance company has priced in a subsidence risk. Perhaps even give the insurance company a call and ask them, based on this survey report, would they increase their insurance premiums in the future.
I would really appreciate ur opinion on my first time. Survey saying ‘history of subsidence but no signs of ongoing’. Agency has no clue when it actually took place. Property is 119 years old and some visible cracks on the extended part of the building. Do I need to have structural survey done. Thanks
If the surveyor values the property at the price you offered then they see no issues with the structural side of the property. Properties that old often have almost no foundations so settling was common. However if the surveyor has said he would not recommend a lender release funds until a specialist looks at it ... well then you will need a structural *engineer* ( A structural *survey* will not be conclusive)
Interesting video - Using a modern method Geobear can provide a solution in a day.
Appreciate the suggestion but readers should note that they should only use a solution that is approved by the insurance company so double check before hiring any company to resolve subsidence issues.
Do you have any reference and backing from structural engineer to show this method works. I have read a few forums suggesting this is a temporary fix and depend on the soil, it can come back in the future and cause further damage.
Very informative, thank you. I'm in the process of buying a property which has confirmed subsidence and requires underpinning. My question is, would this affect the property resale value, even after the underpinning has taken place? I've read that it could and could potentially devalue the property by as much as 25% and make it harder to resell. Would you agree?
Most properties are not completely underpinned - it might be one wall or one corner. In this case future buyers may be concerned that there could be subsidence elsewhere in the future. This much is true. However I wouldn't ever put a figure on how it affects the property value because there are too many other factors. Let's say the property was in a desirable school catchment area and there was very little on the market at the time. In that case you would probably get a similar price to similar properties (without subsidence). However, if there was a glut of properties when you came to sell .... well .... yours is the 'problem' one and you would have to discount to attract a buyer.
Thanks for this video. Do you have any experience of mortgaging a house with subsidence? We are in a position of having found the perfect house - there is a known subsidence problem caused by tree roots and tree has now been removed. The owners insurance is covering cost of repairing a crack and any underpinning/resin injection that is required at no cost to buyer/new owner. This work is due to start in 4-5 months. However, we have spoken to several mortgage advisors and all state we will be unable to get a mortgage as the work is yet to be carried out - despite the current owners insurance assuring they are covering the full cost of rectifying this. Do you know any lender who it would be worth speaking to? Many thanks
I have never known a more difficult time to get a mortgage (except perhaps 2009) and lenders are constantly changing their goal posts so some who used to be more relaxed about your situation aren't any more. Remember there is still risk here - the insurance company could go bankrupt, the insurance company might still wiggle out of their promise if they get 'new information', etc, etc. If you really love the house look into 'Conditional Exchange' where you set the completion date for, say 12 months from now subject to the works being carried out to a level which is satisfactory to a mortgage lender (ask your solicitor how to do the exact wording). This would lock the seller in to sell and ... remember this ... you to buy. That means if anything happens in the next few months such as you loosing your income stream you would still be legally required to complete or loose your deposit paid at exchange. You can of course mitigate this with something like income insurance if you want to be completely covered but such policies can be pricey.
is cracked brickes straight down like a metre subsidence or settling? nothing to worry about? new build 8 years old.
The only person who can answer this with confidence is a structural engineer
Insurers actually require to be informed of significant structural damage, including cracking, if thought to be the result of foundation movement. In many cases therefore the vendor will have to handle the situation or maybe the existing insurance policy could be assigned to any new owner. Also, always worth readying Building Research Establishment Digest 251 (Assessment of damage in low-rise buildings) as this is first port of call in many cases.
Spot on. As I mention in the video keeping the current insurer on older properties - even if there are no signs of subsidence - is also a good move.
Indeed, the video is a breath of fresh air with lots of sound advice. All buildings are subject to movement of one kind or another. For damage up to and including Category 2 (max 5mm) BRED 251 suggests that “unless there are clear indications that damage is progressing to a higher level it may be expensive and inappropriate to carry out extensive work for what amounts to aesthetic damage.”
Hi there. Great video.
I have had an offer accepted on a property, severely undervalued in my view, therefore I was really happy. However, had bank do a survey, and my own private survey done, both concluding subsidence. However, I got a friend of mine round who runs a big building company, and he thinks it’s an over reaction. So, I will get a structural survey, and I will also check around the insurance, but how do I then gain the mortgage, do I have to go through “bridging” mortgage whilst the work to fix is done? Or are there other options?
Follow the first two steps: 1) Does a structural Engineer conclude there really is subsidence? 2) Is that subsidence covered by the current household insurance? If the answers are YES and NO you might find no one is prepared to lend on it , after all it is a structurally unsound building. A bridging loan is not relevant here - a bridging loan is designed to provide you with more credit that you might normally qualify for because you have a property you can sell to cover the loan but its not sold yet.
This is pedantic (and not really a reply to you but for others who might read your comment wrongly) - You don't want a structural survey, you want a Structural Engineers Report. A Structural Survey won't be able to conclusively report on the subsidence. I think you know that but others could get mixed up!
Hi. Thanks for the response. The difference between a “structural engineers report” and a “structural survey” is actually very important. So thanks for pointing that out. Secondly, if the previous owner (who is dead) has no insurance to cover, and perhaps are unwilling to do the work, then bridging is my only option to gain the property to do the work on it. I got the house very cheap knowing that I would need to do work on it, we put money aside for that. But if I can’t get a mortgage on it I am a bit stuck. Any other tips if the structural engineer says it’s subsidence?
@@jacknotton5820 The bridging loan will only work if it is secured on another property. If that's a possibility then maybe just do an equity release on the other property. However we are starting to get into the realms of financial advice and I am not a qualified financial advisor so I would say ... go and see one of those. I wouldn't speculate any further until the insurance situation is clear and the structural engineers report is in.
Have you any experience with the resins that can be pumped into the ground to lift up the property? Is it a better method?
I'm not a specialist in subsidence treatment - the video is more about working out what to do (in terms of should you buy or not) if the surveyor suspects subsidence
Thinking of buying a house with subsidence with raft style foundations but the whole block as tilted any advise you could give us ?
I'd get a Structural Engineer (not a Structural Surveyor) to have a look at it. Subsidence in itself is not an issue, a property can be super wonky but structurally sound - some flats in Edinburgh are on breathtaking slopes but they are fine. It's when the subsidence is active and the property is actively sinking that action needs to be taken. A structural engineer will be able to tell you if they think there is active subsidence or the property should be monitored for subsidence before proceeding (or, of course, if the property is stable). Remember many UK houses (especially pre-war) have almost no foundations to speak of so your situation is not unusual!
I am buying underpinned house and given all the paperworks and got mortgage offer. I have carried out full building survey. The report from surveyor put me off. I can understand him having to cover himself by saying as no guarantee that the underpinning has stopped any movement. He mentions getting a structural engineer but i've just paid for a full building survey!!!!!
I think there's a serious over reaction to historical movement with known and removable causes in this country. People are perfectly happy to buy houses with zero foundations and then freak out when a house has them.
Sorry Cho. I don't know why I missed your comment earlier but yes, the value of Structural Surveys is questionable. Here's my video on them: th-cam.com/video/KVx458MVvsQ/w-d-xo.html
@@howtoreallybuyaproperty1661 Thank you so much!!!I will watch it. Structural engineet won't digging out under the ground either and will only do visual inspection. Can he able to confirm if the underpinning stopped the movement then? Building surveyor only confirmed there is no ongoing subsidence..Vendor has already provided a certificates of structural adequacy.
@@howtoreallybuyaproperty1661 i watched the video and it really helped!!!! Great!! My daughter bought an underpinned house and she had a survey with structure engineering rather than building surveyor.
@@chosowon2493 The structural engineer will only say if there is ongoing subsidence or not (or if the property needs to be monitored before offering a conclusive answer). S/he may not say "there is no subsidence because of the underpinning" but the key here is simply a structural engineers conclusion regardless of how or why he reached that conclusion.
Hi, I am buying a house in which our Homebuyers Report mentions possible structural movement and we should get a Structural Engineer's report. You mention it being very important you keep the same insurer of the property when you buy the house. Is this common practice? Can I just contact the current insurer of the property and take on the current policy from the vendor? This would mean I don't have to get a Structural Engineer's report or arrange new insurance. Thank you.
Probably ... no. Most insurance companies state that they must be notified as soon as possible subsidence is identified. I'll emphasize 'possible' here because it isn't so until a structural engineer says it is so. Insurance companies have this clause because obviously if there is real subsidence and it is left unchecked it will cost more to fix. Don't notify and you may find it invalidates the insurance which could hit your pocket very hard later! You will have to talk to the insurance company about their procedure but they are probably going to want a structural engineers report anyway. If you care getting a mortgage the lender might also withhold funds until they see a structural engineers report.
@@howtoreallybuyaproperty1661 Ok Thanks
Great video. If you don't mind I have a question, I've just moved into a property built in the 1960's it had a one crack in the outside brickwork on the first floor a wide (>10mm) crack in the interior kitchen wall and on the first day in the property I removed the wallpaper in the bathroom (directly above the kitchen) and found another wide (>10mm) crack. It seems to fit the criteria of subsidence, would the surveyor working on behalf of the mortgage advisor have missed this? Who would be liable for this if it is subsidence since I've only had the property 1 day? What steps should I take next?
Well it is not necessarily subsidence, it could equally have been settlement. My first step would be to talk to the surveyor but if you still have concerns then the only solid answer will come from an inspection by a Structural Engineer.
Con Artyst Any updates on yet? Was it really subsidence that the cracks on your property (10mm)??
Thanks for sharing such an important issue of subsidence.
I’ve made an offer to a property which has developed some crack due to leaking drainage (according to survey & local builder) and need to be underpinned. Property is located at ‘high moderate ground subsidence area. I believe seller knew it & didn’t disclosed earlier. I’ve already spent time & money (sols fees, searches, survey etc.) Seller is not willing to negotiate ( the estate agent is not helpful at all) Please advise what can you do ? Many thanks
As I said in the video the only person who can conclusively say if a property has subsidence (and has the type of subsidence that requires underpinning) is a qualified Structural Engineer. Surveyors and local builders can only give an opinion. So get a Structural Engineers report first and if this confirms subsidence that requires underpinning ask the vendor if their buildings insurance covers this.
Many thanks!
I know it is been long time since you wrote this I am hoping if you see my message to tell me what you did at the end ? I am in the same suitation spend money and time none of them mentioned about the subsidence , I really like the property but I don't know what to do .please replay what you did it would help me to decide thank you in advance .
Asmeret Seyoum Hi sorry for the delay in replying your message. I didn’t buy at the end and found another property which we really liked! I tried to negotiate with the vendor about sharing structural engineer cost or provide me a copy of the structural soundness if they believe there’s no issues with the property. They refused both options. And the estate agent ( purplebricks)was very unhelpful. I think we made the right decision. I think the main issue buying a property which has subsidence is difficult to get an insurance. But all down to the upfront cost you’re paying i guess. All the best!
@@Familygarden88 ohhh thank you so much for taking the time to replay my message , I am glad you found what you liked I think we will move on to viewing again . I am worried as I research more about it , I think it will be hard to resale if we have to sell it again as well thank you it means a lot the advice you just gave us .
Hi thank you for this video. The property which accepted my offer and the
Search results have revealed that the property is in an area of moderate natural subsidence.
what does mean? is the property itself has the problem? or the area is at moderate risk ?Do i need to worry about this? what should i do if there is an issue. could you please advice me? Thx
Huge swathes of England and Wales are areas of 'moderate natural subsidence' so this is not unusual. Did the surveyor value the property at the price you offered? If so they are not concerned. Has the bank approved the mortgage? If so they are not concerned. If they aren't you don't need to be. That's not a guarantee that there will never be any subsidence in the future ... but that uncertainty applies to many, many properties across the country. You are just as likely to see the same warning on the next search results of another property if you walk away from this one.
The previous insurer of the proposed property is deceased!
Any further suggestions? ;-)
Are you saying the property was insured by an individual person who acted in the same way as an insurance company - i.e. was taking regular payments in return for payouts to cover issues like subsidence in certain circumstances?
I’m currently looking at a property that had subsidence in 1993 and was underpinned. You mentioned staying with the same insurer as the seller but they have changed insurance companies over the years, do we go with their most recent insurer or their insurer at the time?
Thank you so much in advance for this video!
The point about keeping the same insurer is this. Let's say you buy the property and change the insurance company. 6 months later you find subsidence. The new insurance company might say "This started more than 6 months ago, not our problem" and the previous insurance company will say "This is new, not our problem". So keep the *current* insurance company to avoid this sort of thing happening.
@@howtoreallybuyaproperty1661 Oh I see makes a lot of sense and will make sure to do so this week. Thanks again! Really appreciate the speedy response too 😊
Hi there great videos you're putting out. What should we do if a report says property has had historic movement but it has settled now and not progressed.
Would that be a settled property as you said with old houses?
@@osamafarooq1669 How old is the property?
@@howtoreallybuyaproperty1661 120 years old victoria terrace mode terrace
@@howtoreallybuyaproperty1661 nonibcious cracks and no trees nearby
@@osamafarooq1669 Oh yes. Most of those Victorian terraces were built with almost no foundations - sometimes just 5-7 bricks deep so they often settled once the full weight of the building was completed. If the surveyor has valued the property at the price you offered then they see no issues with it from a structural point of view. However you might want to get the cracking sealed up if there is the potential to cause damp
I have received the flooding and mining report and the main issues to highlight are as follows:
• the property is assessed to have potential for natural or non-natural ground subsidence and an area that may be affected by surface or sub-surface coal mining
• the search has also indicated that there is a moderate risk of Surface Water flooding
Any advice ?
My first thoughts would be "Even if I can get this insured for a reasonable price am I prepared to live through subsidence/flooding should it happen". If the property or area are so good that you are prepared to take that risk then I would talk to the current insurance company to ensure they are aware of these risks (they might not be of the current owner received a more low key report when they purchased and the current insurance policy is based on that). This way you will be sure you know what the insurance premiums are going to be. I'd also head over to the Environment Agency floor map to see how they see the risk for the area: flood-map-for-planning.service.gov.uk/
@@howtoreallybuyaproperty1661 thankyou!
Good morning Tim , the house I am going to buy has risk of shrinkable soil . RICs level 2 survey confirmed no subsidence or damp . Should I go for the property ? Please help
All properties have some risk of subsidence. Climate change and extreme weather conditions have added to this. If there is a long dry period the soil will shrink. If there is a prolonged wet period the soil will expand. In some areas this is more likely than others - e.g. North London is built on clay, South London on a former marsh - both make subsidence more 'likely'. Properties in former mining towns are built above collapsing tunnels. Further if it is a period property it probably has minimal foundations as well. That's just how properties are in the UK. Further remember the surveyor needs to cover himself to "you can't say that he didn't tell you". My general rule is if the surveyor has valued the property at the price that you have offered then he has factored in the risks and still concluded the property is worth what you are paying for it.
@@howtoreallybuyaproperty1661 Thankyou very much for your answer Tim . The property I am looking is in Harrow Weald London . It’s built around 1930 mid terraced house . I just did RICs leve2 survey with no valuation added . . There has been no any history of subsidence what the seller wrote on the draft so if I take building insurance will it make it safer in future ? Thankyou agian 🙏
Thank you for the informative video. I don't understand, why would an insurance company agree to transfer the the policy from the seller to the buyer if they know there is an incoming claim?
OK - something like this:
- if there is a claim happening (or there has been a claim in the past) stay with the same insurer. If there are further problems in the future a new insurer may blame the old insurer for shoddy work and refuse to pay out.
- if there is a possible claim (the property is being monitored for movement) stay with the same insurer. If you change the new insurer may say the subsidence did not start during their policy and say you should pursue the old insurer for payment.
- If no subsidence was flagged by the survey this does not mean there is no subsidence so stick with the same insurer for the reasons above
The above advice is for *period* properties in general although if there is not much to save by switching insurer then I stick with the same insurer no matter when the house was built.
Is that a bit clearer?
@@howtoreallybuyaproperty1661 Great advice, thank you so much.
@@howtoreallybuyaproperty1661 Hi, so it's not a transfer of the existing policy but a new policy with the existing insurer, is that right or is it actually a transfer / continuation of the existing policy?
@@MrJoeT87 Yes, to be exact the policy is new (in the name of the new owner) but with the same insurer.
Hi, I have received the below building report finding with the below: do you think we still need to get a surveyor ? If the property has an insurance, can we use that insurance to get a mortgage ? Or it’s not good to buy it ?
Significant structural movement has occurred to the property in the past resulting in a bulge at the base of the left-hand flank wall, heads of doors having dropped in both ground and first floor areas at the bottom of the stairs and to first floor bedroom cupboard above and a further what would appear to be fresher crack in the wall between the front bedroom and rear bedroom cupboard all indicating that the movement may be live. The floors in the kitchen were also noted to be significantly sloping towards the movement and some remedial works have been undertaken in the past to include repointing the section of bulged wall which would appear to have acted to trap moisture into the wall evidenced by damp staining in the front living room.
It is possible that the movement is historic and non-progressive, however, we cannot rule out further movement.
I have to say I don't really understand most of your comment. Who provided the building report? It sounds like a surveyors report. That aside, if I was buying I would get a structural engineer to give the property the once over. As far as insurance goes, it has nothing to do with getting a mortgage. All the papers (including the structural engineers report of you get one) will go to the lender and they will decide if lending on the property is a good idea. Even if the property is fully insured the lender might decide they don't want to take the risk...
Thanks I appreciate the response. It was level 3 Building Survey.
@@EugeniaMiller-ff9rh In that case it is a surveyors report so as per the video you need a Structural Engineer to give you a concrete answer of what is going on with the property. Keep in mind that properties like this can really spook surveyors (especially those new to the job) but then you find a Structural Engineer turns up, shrugs his shoulders and says the place is rock solid! I've seen this many times regardless of how floors slope or walls have cracks.
@@howtoreallybuyaproperty1661 thanks. We will get a structural Engineer to have a look and if it’s not progress we should be ok. I’ll let you know how it’s progressing. The house itself over 100years old in South East. There are no external wall cracks and no cracks next to windows or doors. It’s just inside a cupboard where drywall is on top floor. So hopefully it has been there for many years.
Hi, what advice would you give to someone who is buying a new build off the plan house on a development which has a former coal minning history .
There are no mine shafts revealed within 20m of the property.
There have been no coal mining compensation claims within 50m of the property since 01/01/94.
If any subsidence occurs as a results if former coal mining , NHBC will not cover this . I am in a dilemma what to do. Thanks
I would shop around to see how many insurance companies cover your situation and what the premiums would be. Perhaps try a broker so they do the sifting for you ....
@@howtoreallybuyaproperty1661 hi thanks for reply. When I check the home insurance ,it only ask for if the property had a history of subsidence, which we dnt know as it’s not built yet. The only thing we know is that it’s was a former coal minning area.
@@howtoreallybuyaproperty1661 these are the two poiNts mentioned on the searches by the solicitors
The property is in a former coal mining area.
There are no mine shafts revealed within 20m of the property.
There have been no coal mining compensation claims within 50m of the property since 01/01/94.
@@Patialvi1209 This is actually the easy bit. The property does not have a history of subsidence because it does not have a history! However read the actual policy carefully, there will be a section called something like 'Exclusions' which will include things like Acts of God, Civil Disobedience (riots), War, etc. This may also include subsidence due to mining activities. However to be 100% covered email the insurer, explain the situation and ask them to clarify in writing that you are covered for subsidence due to mining activities. That should make your situation water tight.
@@howtoreallybuyaproperty1661 tbanks for your reply .I think my dilemma is whether to go with the purchase or not knowing there is a history of coal minning on the land, kindly read my comment above. That’s from the solicitor after they done the searches .
Do you think the it will be hard to sell this property in future and do they hold the value ?
I will check the insurance policy term and conditions.
Thanks
Why would one victorian house in a terrace suffer with subsidence without any large trees nearby?
Trees are only one cause of subsidence. Victorian houses rarely have foundations more than a few bricks thick. They would throw up these terraces in huge numbers and many often collapsed soon after! Those that survived ... survived. But changes like a collapsing air pocket or an underground stream drying up can affect a single house in a terrace. Also a neighbour underpinning their house can cause issues because their house is no longer moving but yours is!
I am considering buying a property where the current owner has died and a distant relative has inherited the house, which has clearly suffered some movement in the past as have most houses in the area. The vendor is aware of the implications and needs a cash buyer. The house is mid-terrace Edwardian with a traditional bay window which I am confident my builder can straighten out fairly easily and the floors throughout are like the rocky road to Dublin.The house hasn't been altered or repaired, even decorated, for many years which is good because there is no sign of recent movement which I am sure would be apparent. My question is, if I were to cover the usual program of repairs and modernisations but also 'straighten things out' ie the floors, skirtings, door casings etc how would I be fixed when I come to sell the property on completion of the work? Is the property likely to be mortgageable if there is no obvious sign of serious subsidence but clearly has undergone a program of repairs, or could they be considered purely cosmetic if no underpinning is done? The neighbourhood is mainly owner/occupiers and is still a 'good' area and although many properties show obvious signs of movement none are empty and not many hang around when on the market.Basically, I can afford to buy and repair the house and I am hoping that my ability to do this will get me a big enough discount to eventually generate a good profit. What would you advise?
Personally I would resolve the structural question by getting a structural engineer to report on the property. If the structural engineer says there is no subsidence (or active subsidence) file the report and, when you come to sell the property, present it to the buyers surveyor. If the time between the structural engineers report and the buyers survey is short it usually assures the surveyor that the property is sound (at the moment). Remember underpinning for the sake of underpinning, especially of a terraced property, can do more harm than good if the terrace has annual movement so its not always an answer.
Thank you very much, that is most helpful.@@howtoreallybuyaproperty1661
I clicked to buy your book but there's a broken link.
That's not good! However copies of the book sell every day so not sure which link you are referring to. Can you tell me the page you were on where the link did not work? Many thanks.
@@howtoreallybuyaproperty1661
Unable to use link via safari on iPad to purchase/download the book - on both links on the safari page
How much is the download pls. Many thanks
What if the solicitor's searches reveal "there is a risk of subsidence in the area", but survey states there is no evidence of subsidence. Should you still worry about it?
This is a sort of "I've covered my back" sort of thing. Now if the house suffers subsidence in the future you can't sue your solicitor because "he told you so". But vast areas of the UK have "a risk of subsidence" - especially period properties - however properties in these areas are bought and sold every day. So yes, there is a possibility of subsidence occurring in the property you are buying. Should you worry? Most people don't - they just make sure they are properly insured. If it concerns you then buy elsewhere (although that can be difficult sometimes as you may have to travel some distance to find a subsidence free area) or buy a modern house with solid foundations.
@@howtoreallybuyaproperty1661 thank you very much!
Hi, thank you for this video very helpful! This is what is written on my homebuyer report:
The property is assessed to have potential for natural or non-natural ground subsidence.
The property, or an area within 50m of the property, has a moderate to high potential for natural ground subsidence. This rating is derived from the British Geological Survey's GeoSure database, and is based upon the natural qualities of the geology at the site rather than any historical subsidence claims or events. Additionally, this data does not take into account whether buildings on site have been designed to withstand any degree of subsidence hazard.
Surveyors are normally aware of local problem areas in relation to subsidence, however, this data provided by the British Geological Survey (BGS) can highlight areas where a significant potential for natural ground subsidence exists and whether it may need particular consideration. The term “Subsidence” refers to ground movement that could cause damage to foundations in domestic or other properties.
What is your advice please?
At first glance this sounds like someone trying to cover themselves! For example much of North London is built on clay, much of south London was marshland. There are endless Victorian and Georgian terraces and houses here that have virtually no foundations so they all have a 'potential for ground subsidence' ... but this does not stop them being bought and sold every day. So ... did the surveyor value the property at the price you offered? Has the surveyor said to the lender that they should not lend on the property or should not lend until a structural engineers report is carried out? If not and the lender is ready to move forward with the mortgage then it sounds like the surveyor is just pointing out the obvious - many UK properties have the potential to subside, especially older ones.
Never ever accept someones assessment of subsidence, it took me a 30 minute site visit and 15 minutes with the report engineer to present what had happened. report withdrawn etc
I does help that I have 40 years of experience in construction and much of that with delicate negotiation with building types
Not sure what you are saying here? If a buyer is not qualified to assess subsidence then they have to accept someone else's assessment ... and that would be the assessment of a structural engineer (not the surveyor). Or have I misunderstood you?
I'd like to ask you a few questions if you have the time? Aware this is an old video, but if you happen to see this :)
Happy to answer questions here but I don't do 1 to 1 consultations. (and remember comprehensive info is in the book)
I'm a specialist subsidence Loss Adjuster/Surveyor. This video contains a mixture of good and not so good advice but is mainly right. Its a good video. I'm happy to give some free advice if needed and if I have the time. Kr M
Don't buy a property that has subsidence there are lots of variables but if the diagnosis is subsidence walk away.
I would say that's too general. There are plenty of properties which have subsidence and have been standing for hundreds of years. If you really love the place you have found watch the video to understand the different types of subsidence so you can make a fully informed decision.
@@howtoreallybuyaproperty1661 Plenty of properties have subsided which becomes historical and if identified as historical by engineer certificate or repaired guarantees then yes buy as will get mortgage. Without testing no one can tell if it's ongoing. Settlement cracks are different from subsidence cracking. 100s of thousands of houses have settlement cracks and it's rare to find one that has none. My advise if subsidence is mentioned in home report or survey report walk away unless asking price has considered the cost of repair/rebuild and if it is flatted property it's 100% walk away. If terraced or semi detached legal searches should pick up on any subsidence which could devalue other properties close by if not attached.
@@charlieritchie5980 I can see where you are coming from but I would disagree on some points. If a *structural engineer* concludes there is *active subsidence* you need to give the purchase careful thought - too much to cover in a comment here. However a *home report* or *survey report* is not carried out by someone qualified to conclude there is subsidence. Only a structural engineer can do this. In my own experience the vast majority of surveys that flag a *possible* subsidence issue end up with a structural engineer saying the property is sound. That's really one of the key points of this video.
@@howtoreallybuyaproperty1661 No home report or valuation survey will put a signature to the statement that they have identified subsidence. They may identify cracking and advise a structural survey could evaluate situation. Most structural surveys come back say settlement or historical movement and I agree. These reports are just a licence to print money and been advised by valuers with no knowledge of building construction (their best guess) My point is if a property is really cheap there is a reason and buy as seen.If a buyer sees open cracking in masonry this is not DIY and the property may not be the bargain you think
@@charlieritchie5980 Sorry - missed your reply earlier ... but yes, I think we are both on the same page :)