Pro Pickleball Players NEVER Slice Their Returns Anymore. Here's Why!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 พ.ย. 2023
- Uncover the truth about slicing in pickleball - why pros ditched it and the game-changing reasons you should too! In this short video, I break down the why behind the shift. Ready to upgrade your game?
Grab Zane Navratil Signature ProXR Pickleball Paddle on our website
zanenavratilpickleball.com/shop/
Subscribe to my monthly newsletter to stay up to date with Zane on and off the court!
zanenavratilpickleball.com/
Looking for some relaxed concentration on the court? Check out my partner, More Than Energy. Use this link for automatic 20% off + free shipping!
getmte.com/zane
Make sure you’re recovering! Check out Yobow, the most compact massage pistol on the market. Use code “ZANE” at checkout for free shipping!
theyobow.com/
Enhance your practice sessions and improve your game with a Lobster ball machine. Use code ZANE5 for 5% off any pickleball machine and accessories.
lobstersports.com/collections...
Go to Har-Tru for your pickleball court equipment needs. Use discount code ZANE10 to receive 10% off your purchase. Looking to build your court? Email Brandy at BrandyGentry@hartru.com to see what Har-Tru can do for you!
hartru.com/
Thorlo Socks are the best! Engineered with varying levels of padding, their pickleball socks provide maximum comfort and support. Get your pair here.
thorlo.com/pages/pickleball
Anthem Sports & Entertainment is a global, multi-platform media company and is the exclusive home of Major League Pickleball in Canada with coverage on the Game+ Network. gameplusnetwork.com/
AIM7 is an innovative platform that turns data from wearables to personalized and actionable solutions to increase physical and mental fitness. AIM7 brings a special focus to pickleball performance, recovery, and injury prevention. Learn more here!
aim7.com/pickleball
Zane’s on Cameo!!
cameo.com/zanenavratilpickleball - กีฬา
![แข่งแลกของ 1 วัน!! ของใครแพงสุดชนะ!! [Ver.2024]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/joRT59ilPHg/mqdefault.jpg)
This is so wrong in so many ways. The slice is incredibly effective even at a 5.0+ level of play. First... it keeps the ball lower to the ground forcing my opponent to hit upward (which is what I want). A slice return is much easier to control when it comes to depth. A good return is all about depth. A slice return can be aggressive but still allows me or any other player more time to get to the kitchen line. A slice return is forcing my opponent to counter my spin... which now adds more risk to his/her counter shot. If my opponent is going to hit topspin (banger) it better be great because at this level most players can easily handle this reply with a deep volley... that now puts the (banger) at a huge disadvantage. Depth is king in return. If you hit a topspin return short.. you're dead meat. The ball is sitting up.. allowing your opponent to hit downward. If you hit a slice short it actually can be very effective, forcing a pop-up or an out ball as my opponent is desperately trying to counter the spin with the ball much closer to the net.
Absolutely, I totally agree! 👍🏻
It depends so much on the level. Through 4.0 hard slice returns tend to be effective by causing many in-the-net errors. This changes at higher levels as players adjust, lift the ball more, and hit heavy(ier) topspin from the opposing slice.
I'll also add that when returning a topspin serve, you have the opposite effect. When you take the topspin serve high (sometimes on the rise), you have a down angle for a super-heavy slice line drive deep into the court that skids low. It usually requires upper-level player discipline and low body position to effectively topspin this back, but when they can, you're cooked.
Like so much else, it's all context.
Yeah, you made a mistake in the end of the video you didn’t address it …you meant to say backspin instead of topspin
totally agree with you! I play against mostly 3.0 to 4.0 and my backhand is a natural cut slice and is very effective against my opponents especially when I hit it deep.
@@bernhtp Thank you. Very interesting. Never payed anyone like 5.0 type so have not anyone hit back my slice with as much topspin as you do in this demo. It would be interesting to see it happen in real life. It tend to hit one handed backhand. Old school. If a heavy topspin serve is coming to my backhand I find it easier to slice back than to hit a topspin back at them. Is it a matter of practice or do you find it to be accurate for even you at your level?
I was going to write the same thing and then I saw yours here at the top. I believe the slice does create more top spin which for 4.0 and below, if done effectively, will put more topspin on the opponent returning serve or drive, that they then hit it into the net when they try to hit hard or end up putting more topspin than they need. I also believe mixing it up is more important than doing the same topspin serve or return. I've learned this even more importantly in singles and have made it harder for my opponents when I drive a deep slice into the corners. They often hit the net due to the low ball which stays lower and deeper and then the topspin they try to hit back with... my slice, can hit the net with their return. Low balls can slide also with slice on older court services or lines, so keep that in mind.
Thank you. My slice return works well against lower level players, not so much with higher levels. I'll give your push return a try.
When I return serve in severe slice deep, many players have problem returning it. Particularly if they try third shot drop which often goes into the net.
Yep no pace and two angles beats the drive. Ben Johns hit that.
I used to always use back-spin returns. I've been mixing it more more the last few months. Thanks for the great advice!
Thanks for pointing out that pros are not slicing their returns. I definitely see how you wouldn't want your opponents to use that spin against you. I do wonder, though, if slicing the return is still a solid idea against players who have not learned to use that spin against you.
For me, the question is whether I want to perform better right now, against people who can't handle it, so that I can play with a better grade of player, and whether that reward for using the shot now will outweigh the opportunity cost of not practicing the flat, spin-free, shot that I will eventually need to transition to.
I tend to think that I should keep using it as long as it's successful, and drop it when it starts to hurt me.
The point is that when you keep doing, it becomes your second nature (if it hasn't already become) without even you knowing the same. Your strategy of dropping it once it start hurting your progress against better players may not come easy.
However, I only have the intention of enjoying the game. I know I am never going to become a Pro (or I don't have that aspirations), so I would want to keep that slice.
In the defense of slicing, a lot of people don't think in all cases to compensate for the added topspin. Just like against the wall, the ball reacts downward. This causes a lot of people to miss in the net because they aren't adding the extra height necessary to counteract the slice spin
shhhhh don't let the secret out!!
Yeah hes just refering to pro advanced level though. below 4.5 backspin eats people.
@@stevecrawford333 that's great but that likely not who is viewing these videos/intended audience
@@OGCollecting Disagree, because it gets to a point there is too many beginner videos and once you start to peak at 4.5 there is very little tips you can gain.
@@stevecrawford333 ok, but mixing it up still is the best strategy. A good slice thrown in after multiple topspin shots isn't a bad idea.
A sliced return will hit the ground first, not a paddle. So we would need to look at the spin on the ball after it hits the ground. I haven't tested it, but I would guess the bounce would take away much of the backspin.
It skips and still has loads of backspin. It still will cause 3.5 and below players to occasionally smack it into the net. My partner loves crushing a backspin return, and we still get points off of it. But if you are used to the return, you can hit massive topspin to counter. Even catches 4.0 players when they don't focus. But I agree with Zane the higher level players will eat this up.
And when it hits the ground it does not propel right into a topspin forehand strength. An account not a teacher.
His explanation of spin is entirely flawed. You can see when he starts hitting that the difference is entirely in the timing and has nothing to do with the spin already on the ball. He simply hits better quality strokes against slice because there is more time to set up, and the quality of the slices coming at him are so poor. A pickleball has holes in it, making slice shots float in the air like crazy, also making it almost always a bad shot unless used intentionally as a mix-up or with a crazy amount of power behind it.
Anyone who has played table tennis knows if you hit backspin, it is easier to add to the spin with topspin.
@@keithloucks7167 agreed on that. Tennis too. But with pickleball, if someone hits a flat return I counter with a normal topspin shot. It clears the net easily. If I hit the same shot off a "well hit" backspin return, it will go in the net. So we have to compensate by aiming 2 feet higher and yes you can get a good shot. Not trying to explain the science here, just more cause and effect. We're talking pretty much a full force chop backspin return. Gets lesser players all the time. I usually tell them to just block the shot and don't go for power, if it's 3.5 or below teammate. 4.0+'s can handle it pretty well, they've seen it more.
You can slice return with low RPM to not give your opponent excessive under spin to work off. Float it over with very little rotation as a change of pace. Also most people aren’t pro’s so this advice means little.
Agree the slice has a higher trajectory over the net then your drive.
Hitting the back spin buys you time to get to the NVZ line.The back spin fights gravity therefore stays in the air longer.If you hit topspin on your service return your opponent takes time away from you and you’ll end up trying to receive third shot drives off your shoe tops in the transition zone
True, but I hit high, looping topspin returns and can have a sandwich at the NVZ line before their third shot eventually arrives. Also the high topspin bounce discombobulates certain players. (I still hit high slice returns a lot, just to keep people guessing.)
The looping return is a less consistent shot than the slice
@@teacherjoedeveto
Maybe for normal people? For me, I just hit three slice returns wide in one game today. I don't think I have ever hit a looping return out, ever. Different strokes for different pickleballers, I suppose. @@joemarshall4226
💯
I usually test out my opponent first with my slice return and see how they handle it. If they can't get it back then I use that 80% of the time against them. I also find the slice return still works well in 4.0-4.5 mixed against the female.
I totally agree with this. I was taught to slice return. I found it be very inconsistent and hard to control. It felt wild and out of control. My push top spin is more predictable and it gives me good momentum to run to the net quickly. I agree here.
Thanks for sharing!
Thank you for your time and posting. My slice either goes left or right, so I'm not sure if it is a slice or something else.
I am only a lowlerly 3.5 to 4.0 player and would ask everyone to consider another aspect of this problem. Trying to hit a top spin return you must first over come the top spin on the serve. That is why Zane is recommiending a push or flat return. But when you hit a slice return you will find that the top spin serve is giving you bonus underspin than a flat serve. Therefore you can hit a slice return with more underspin thus making your slice return more effective. To avoid this bonus underspin, you should learn a side spin serve. I am predicting that Zane is going to recommend a side spin serve to avoid giving bonus spin to your opponent.
excellent advice. I have been a topspin returner so now to work on the push. Thanks
I didn't want to believe it. But the amount of dip you got hitting top-spin off your opponent's slice convinced me! I love to hit super sharp slices. And it can really mess up my opponents at my level. But, watching this video makes me recall that yeah, there have been quite a few times when the drive someone hits off my slice return dips so hard everyone on the court is in awe and compliments the shot. I didn't realize my slice was making that shot possible. I wish it wasn't so... I am going to miss slicing the ball on the return so much! Would love a follow up video, where you remind us (and show us) that even though slice return is out, slice in other situations is still super deadly. Also, what about side spin? I love putting side spin on almost all my shots. But people don't seem to talk about side spin much. At least at my level, side spin enables the in-and-out which makes it hard to read where balls will come off my paddle.
as a 3.8 player I feel my return is one of my strongest shots, I do exactly what you said "match" the angle. I put a small amount of top spin on my return and hard. When I get that shot deep the opponents 3rd shot a lot of times hits the net.
I'm not a pro and my backhand slice return is very, very effective against all of my opponents. There's no way I'm giving it up
Works very well against low level players, but creates bad habits when playing competent people
@@shawnt.6081 hasn't failed me yet
@@shawnt.6081 define “competent”
@@shawnt.6081 I play a slice return against my 5.0 group and some tee off on it, but some struggle with it. I think the key is keeping it deep, mixing it up with different heights, target backhands and recognizing which players handle it better.
@@shawnt.6081not necessarily.
I'd be interested in the next edition of this, sidespin. It seems to me that when two right handed players are giving each other classic sidespin, the second guy's spin should be much more dramatic. With mismatched left and right handed players, the two effects cancel. Problem is, that kind of variance kills consistency. Ultimately it is a game of errors.
I believe the slice does create more top spin which for 4.0 and below, if done effectively, will put more topspin on the opponent returning serve or drive, that they then hit it into the net when they try to hit hard or end up putting more topspin than they need. I also believe mixing it up is more important than doing the same topspin serve or return. I've learned this even more importantly in singles and have made it harder for my opponents when I drive a deep slice into the corners. They often hit the net due to the low ball which stays lower and deeper and then the topspin they try to hit back with... my slice, can hit the net with their return. Low balls can slide also with slice on older court services or lines, so keep that in mind.
This video is really applicable to very high level players. Most of us recreational players watching this don't have to paddle head speed or the expensive textured paddle surface the neutralize a heavily sliced ball and our returns are more likely to end up in the net. Nevertheless, this was an interesting lesson on ball spin. Great idea using a basketball
Thank you and thanks for watching!
Interesting. Can't say I had thought about it in this way before. I wouldn't think that the difference would be that pronounced though. I would have thought that one the ball bounces a lot of that spin comes off, but maybe it is still enough to make a difference. I will still continue to mix my spins on return because I think it causes more errors than continuously hitting one type of shot.
I totally disagree with Zane; he's right about what happens with the ball but he is wrong about not using it for a return. Unless struck just right the ball will dive off the opponent's paddle, usually right down into the net. A high level player can use that spin to create even more topspin, but most players are not that skilled. Even with a high level player, if the slice return is a knifing shot and not just a lofting slice, it can be difficult to get under the ball enough to counter the slice and use it against your opponent, especially if that return is very deep. Pros may not want to use the slice for their returns, but most players 4.5 and below (which is the vast majority of the pickleball world), will find the shot to be very effective in most of their play.
Thats not his point. Yes, a slice return can be very challenging for the opponent, the problem is that when a quality opponent hits top spin against incoming underspin the spin doubles, this results in you receiving back an absolute filthy dipper. At low levels the slice works bc players don't have a good enough top spin stroke. At high levels it fails miserably.
As I said, he's right about what happens to the ball, but the percentage of players in the overall scheme of the pickleball world who can punish their opponent with an absolute filthy dipper from your underspin return is a very low number, and thus for Zane to put this video out there to the general pickleball public teaches them something that doesn't really apply to most of them. Also, those of us with the lengthy tennis backgrounds and skill level to punish our opponent with killer topspin are all well aware of this truth about the physics of spin. I love Zane, he's a great guy, I just don't think this video applies to the majority of people trying to learn the sport of pickleball. @@owenallenaz
Seems to me that the video title makes it clear this advice is best suited for aspiring pros, not 4.5 and below.
He's actually not even right about what the ball is doing. You'll see in his basketball demonstration that the balls goes directly from his hands to the wall. But in a real serve, the ball has to bounce on the ground first, which reverses the spin. He's simply wrong.
On a well executed slice, the ball does not "reverse the spin" after hitting the ground, it just lessens it a bit.
For years I was no good at slice returns and only hit it back flat. Not learning how to slice has finally paid off 😀
The example of the basketball applies if you are hitting the slice out of the air. But the rally, the slice is hitting the ground first which changes the spin?
but what about returning from the backhand side
You’re content is so good. Thanks man.
Except the shots one hits to get to NVZ depends on ones foot speed. This must be a top for singles play? Backspin and loopy gives us slow ones more time to move up. The difference between an account and teacher.
A lot of top pros use slices return on regular basis. Andrei Daescu is one of best 3rd shot drop guy and he slices most of his drops. Another one is Tyler Loong, and there are many other who prefer slicing on drop return.
Tyson slices most of his returns with his backhand. Thoughts?
I’ve noticed this too. I think he does it because it make it harder to slice drop to his backhand - which is what Ben has so much success against him with
This is a very advanced skill. You have to create a tremendous amount of paddle head speed to counter a good hard slice. Otherwise, the ball dives downward. It makes sense as a pro but not as a club player. In club play up to about 5.0, slice returns are more effective by far.
I am not a 5.0 but always look for slice return to take a bite of. 4.5 and above are more than capable of going after slice returns.
Great visual with the basketball !
what kind of surface are you playing on? The ball doesn't seem to bounce as high... Franklin X ball perhaps?
lmao the smirk after the product shoutout. It looks like a great paddle!
It all depends who you're playing against. When I first started playing, I couldn't handle chop/backspin returns as I always put them in the net. I've learned how to deal with it now but players continue to chop the ball on returns even though paddle technology is allowing opponents to take advantage of chop returns with hard topspin 3rd shot drives. It's always good to know how to do a variety of shots (i.e. chop, topspin, etc.) but players must be open modifying their game especially when certain shots are being countered effectively.
Slice returns is still pretty effective if you need more time to get into the kitchen. Plus once the ball bounce off the court, it will produce less back spin anyway. What he demonstrated with throwing the basketball with spin or slice is if you are volleying the ball. Keep in mind though if you have good hands, a top spin drive makes it even better to do a drop volley with a lot of backspin. But that's for players 5.0 and above and if you don't have racket sport or tennis background, good luck trying to hit that drop volley with a lot of backspin lol
I just watched this video and had to laugh. I’m 66 and play around a 3 level. A few weeks ago I was playing a regular opponent that loves to slice most of his returns as it usually works well for him at this level. I was at the kitchen and with a big swing he sliced his return to my backhand. I returned the ball with a topspin backhand that dove just to the right of his feet dropping like a rock and blowing past him. He was shocked and all he could say was “Wow, nice return!” At the time I just thought it was a lucky shot but now I realized why it dropped so quickly. Good to know and keep in mind as I continue to try and improve my game.
The serving team does not get to hit the returned ball out of the air. They have to let it bounce. Therefore they do not stand at the kitchen. They usually wait outside the court and must let it bounce.
I can’t believe this guy doesn’t know this. Any ball that bounces will automatically be rotating in the direction it is traveling. Look carefully after you slice a ball, after it bounces the rotation changes to topspin. The only ball that will continue to have slice after a bounce is if it has enough spin to go backwards.
Thx for this video. Good "knifing" slice will always be a good shot. Topspin is good too-- Just mix it up, always! Float that slice only when needed...
Also remember that the nice topspin "shape" you speak of bounces the ball up higher for your opponent! Easier to attack!
Moral of the story: There was reason for hitting the slice approach when attacking, in the glory days of tennis...
Good argument but your point at 5:00 about the slice cutting across the path of the incoming ball vs topspin matching its trajectory is not correct unless you're standing way, way behind the baseline -- a luxury not even possible on many courts, with a strong, deep topspin serve. Did you forget the ball has to bounce? It's moving upward: that's why the slice is an easier shot (unless you're waaaay behind the baseline -- giving your opponent all kinds of angles -- waiting for that serve to reach its post-bounce apex and start descending again).
If you're not playing on a stadium court and you don't have wheels like a jack rabbit, hitting a deep slice and getting to the kitchen is a pretty good option, at least in doubles. I didn't realize pros had suddenly all stopped doing that.
interesting, i know that against some players that like to hit drive returns and or with flat sidearm deliveries, they tend to hit a lot of unforced errors into the net. i think they don't recognize that they are receiving a ball with dive spin off the cut slice ball. (when you say at the end you are giving them topspin, you are actually presenting the ball with divespin, they have to turn that into top spin- i understand what you are inferring though ) . what is interesting is that you are returning/ receiving a ball with a certain amount of divespin , to turn that into topspin ineffectively, you have to lift the ball a little more than normal... which of course , makes the spin look even more effective as it drops relatively more...one of the interesting things about pickleball is i notice that a lot of players (well below say a 4.5 level or so at least) don't account for spin too well and it creates unforced errors as the ball comes off their paddle in ways they don't seem to predict (i didn't play much tennis or raquetball-these players are much better, used to managing spin)
G'day Zane what grip you use on the return? A eastern or continental
It seems by the same theory that the top spin adds onto your opponent's slice. So if your opponent keeps slicing your top spin, the trajectory of the ball will be enhanced on both sides still.
I am testing an opponent with every shot to see how they can handle it and see if they have a weakness. Always changing the shot selection to adjust. But I have zero problems with someone blasting a topspin back at me because I am always sitting at the net waiting to punch it.
One advantage of slice that people don’t seem to talk about is that it is way more energy efficient. Top spinning all the time is tiring.
Interesting advice. I'm likely going to keep my backhand and forehand killer slice return in my bag of tricks, and like everything else, remove it from the bag when situationally appropriate.
Great tip as always.
Hard agree with Zane here. I've recently played against two former tennis players in a 3.5 league in doubles pickleball and was slicing all my returns. While it worked initially, where they had trouble controlling my sliced return and me getting to the net pretty comfortably, they got into a groove and rhythm after a couple points and were sending hard, sinking drives at us left and right. They must've got at least 7 points off us with a shake-and-bake after an extremely spinny, hard topspin drive return.
When we played them again at the league finals a couple weeks later, I changed my returns to be flatter hits and threw more sidespin rather than underspin on my slice returns I did do. Suddenly the game became a lot easier, their drives were nowhere near as difficult to get back, and we won the game.
Definitely wish I saw this video earlier!
Do you have time to get to the net?
Justine Henin tennis style slice but with a steep sideways tilt, is still a good return at lower levels (below 4.5). Pro levels - won’t work too well.
Great to see Ryan here. Next time, let's see him play more!😊
I think top spin won’t hurt you much if you are already at the kitchen line. Deep slice return usually gives you more time to get to the kitchen.
Really really really good! I never really knew the effects on the return slice. makes perfect sense, what about those returns on sliced serves? Should I slice return if able , or flat?
lots of people have trouble when i slice return in rec so im gonna keep doing it 🤪
Until you get that one dude who watched Zane’s video 👀👀
lmao true@@joshie_pb
@joshie_pb and they just bang away and right into the net or out
@@ASouthernBoyCanSurvive fair haha
@@joshie_pb Roger that!!
I still use slice returns...because players often put their returns into the net when I do.
What surface are you playing on? Is it a modular system?
I’m a lefty, who played golf right handed, and therefore i feel very comfortable with my backhand. I deep backhand slice is very effective. It gives me time to get to the kitchen and it spins into the forehand of right-handed players.
If it works against your opponent, keep doing it. If it doesn't work against somebody, they may know how to use your slice against you.
I noticed the change at the pro level and was wondering why. That explains! Thank you!
Yea, but for amateurs it can still be effective, specially against lower levels. If not compromising consistency, still a good tool to have. But good to understand at what cost.
For sure. It all depends on the opponent!
It's amazing to me how many people want to continue their mediocre game when the top players aren't slicing anymore. Mimic the pros until proven wrong. Otherwise enjoy being stuck at the same level. He provided an excellent argument within proven success from pros and people like I disagree, going to slice anyway. smh
Ben John's did it numerous times in San Clemente last weekend.
since i dont play pro players, ill stay with my backhand and forehand slice. If I still get winners from it or saves ill keep it in the lineup.
Thank you coach!
I have to agree even though I dont want to...lol. I learned already that the more junk I put on a serve to the wrong players just makes my partner have to deal with junk*2. If I notice my opponent utilizing my spin, side top back etc. I just flatten out my shots to them unless it is a finishing or disadvantaged shot to them where it is going to help me. Overall it is basic sport strategy to notice your opponent taking advantage of you and figuring out the counter. This is an example of that.
No real courts up here in AK. We play on gym floors. My slice is very effective because the ball never comes up. Lower players can't return it, and higher levels have to slice it back.
I’m able to keep my aggressive slice returns low to the net and even against better players find it results in many many returns into the net. Sure, high level players will adjust their return trajectory to compensate for the backspin but most of us are not “high level”. I don’t use it all the time though either. I find mixing up your spins (top, back and even side spin) really keeps your opponent off balance and gives you some easy kill shots off of poor returns.
All of these things can be correct! If the slice works, don't change it. If it stops working, this may be why!
Is the push return creating side spin?
Have tendency w backhand returns to slice and if I do I’m more consistent Should I develop two handed topspin ???
I would recommend trying out a flat return, whether that's one handed or two handed!
Stick with the slice return unless you're 5.0+
on returns do you try and hit the ball at its bounce apex or on its way down the post bounce arc?
At 5:00 Zane describes the trajectory as descending before his return, meaning he can't be taking balls early. So he needs to stand back. A lot.
Zane, go watch a table tennis game with heavy slice/chop with a pip out paddle. You think it is easy to return that ball but it takes a lot of paddle lift to get the ball over the net or the ball will just dive of the paddle.
You're right. Some people can't deal with it, but some people can use it to their advantage. Pros use it to their advantage
I’ve noticed this 5.0+ play . I’d do a hard BH slice and they’d just use it against me . I reduced the spin or hit it flat . 💯
It's definitely a skill for 4.5+ who can generate high paddle head speed when hitting topspin. Use this below that level and the ball is likely headed into the middle to bottom of the net. Sometimes, it doesn't even make it to the net 😂
Thank you for posting this interesting video, great channel.
Wouldn’t the opposite be true? If you take a top spin and return a slice, wouldn’t it give you more slice?
It would as long as you knife it hard high to low. Otherwise, the slice will float for an easy volley put away.
hey nice advice, but what if your are playing on a handball sports floor?
Should still be true, but I'd imagine that surface would wipe more of the spin off. It also depends on ball used
I regularly put backspin on the ball, and my opponent puts it straight in the net. That is the plan😮
Better to hit a deep slice return than a short flat or top spin return. I also slicing the return gives me consistency on my rerurn against most serves. You just need to find your own style instead of listening to what you should and should not do.
Pretty sure McGuffin is still slicing returns. Not all the time, but he does. And since I'm as good as he is...
What if you add sidespin tho?
My slice returns have not been attacked as you showed. Playing lots of 3.5 players. I understand what you are saying though.
Good video.
Yeah it works great against people that don’t understand how to use it to their advantage. Once they blast a dipper I go back to my stock high topspin return
0:10 You got to stop giving them their topspin
0:39 Basketball demo: what happens when the ball hits the ground
1:04 What happens when the ball hits your paddle?
1:56 Slice helps keep the ball nice and low
2:34 Topspin rally demo
3:04 Slice/Topspin rally demo
3:49 What should be do instead of slicing our return?
4:08 Three shot drill: Serve/Return/3rd Shot
6:06 Ben Johns doesn't slice anymore
6:04 Zane's educational websites
Of all the bad advice in a world of bad advice that nobody in the history of racquet sports would ever agree with, this takes the cake.
You’re not even hitting the slice shot remotely correctly, which would explain why it’s not working for you.
He's correct but the ball must be hit with topspin twice as hard to counter the dipping nature of the slice or the ball is going right into the net. It requires extremely high paddle head speed.
@@sbinsdca and a full western grip. The whole concept is a joke.
You're right,,I've noticed my slice is not very effective on more advanced players. I had to change back to low topspin drives for wins, actually made more work out the games with the slice. Been noticing that lately. Yeah I should just ditch the slice myself.
It still works against certain players, but its good to be aware that some players will take advantage of your slive!
At the 6:32 mark, you say to stop hitting topspin to your opponent. Was that a mistake ? I thought the whole point to your video was to hit top spin over the slice backspin? Am I mistaken?
Yeah, you made a mistake in the end of the video you didn’t address it …you meant to say backspin instead of topspin
At the beginning of the video, he says "if you're still hitting slice returns, you might as well be giving your opponent topspin." That's the point he reiterated at the end.
I think this is valid for only singles where they can get a crazy top spin on your slice. But in doubles most pro players gonna easily return the topspin drive so there are still pros who slice in doubles
Thanks for the demo. From now on only lemon slices for me.
I find on the backhand easier to slice than to hit topspin return
Thanks!
Thanks a ton William!! 🙏🏽
The people are correct! At the most common levels, countering backspin is difficult for players. Just like banging works until a certain point, so does backspin
Backspin will get you to 4.5.
#3:42 is a kitchen violation.
When you say that my underspin ball results in a topspin ball to the opponent....i don't understand what you're saying.
Just slice it to there backhand, unless they uncork a big one hander they can't create topspin with a two hander.
i'm against the naysayers here. i do great slicing returns for 90% of the people that i used to play if i kept them deep but once i started playing pro tournaments it makes sense. that being said, depth is still most important.
For sure. It works phenomenally up to a point, then it starts to work against you
ANYTIME someone says never do this it just makes me want to do it more If you take back spin or slice out of your game you are removing a tool from your kit Only about 10% of the people playing PB play by the same tactics the Pros use Most people never even dink more than 3 or 4 consecutive times and Pro tactics just dont come up in Rec play often .
yeah, there's so much nuance and other variables here that need to be considered.
These arguments are always made by people who haven't mastered slice shots. Slice shots can be hit with different amounts of slice, and different degrees of side pin. They can even be hit in such a manner that the ball turns over in the air and actually becomes a combination of side and topspin when it hits the ground. As far as Ben Johns goes, he was the most dominant player in the world for years hitting slice returns. I don't think we have to worry about hitting it that way. BTW, I predicted that they would keep messing with technology to get grippier paddles, and I predicted that it will mess the game up. One of the reasons Pickleball has become so popular is that so many different styles work. Once you created a grippier paddle, everybody will move to topspin, and will tend ot play the same. this is what hurts sports like ping pong and tennis
True. Very perceptive! Rubber dimples, 18 gauge strings, v groove clubs, soft cover golf balls.....grip, grip, grip, spin, spin spin, spin. Paddles first, then balls, then court surface will be altered. Player wingspan and stride length will dominate because spin will harness the increasing power game.
Love Zane but a slice return still throws off even the 5.0 guys I play against. I agree that you should mix up your returns.
It depends on their skillset. A slice can mess up certain pros as well. The point of this video is "If your opponent is hitting nasty dipping drives off of your slice, stop slicing"
McGuffin is still slicing the return, but you're right, Johns is not.
Love this vid
Zane is sooooooooooo shameless, lol. Have I told you about my Zane Navatril Pro XR carbon 14 paddle? Gotta love it!! Cracks me up so much I have torewind to get to what you're talking about. Hehe
Sort of feel this is causing as much controversy as the chainsaw serve. Nice basic physics lesson. Love it.
There is a wrinkle though. With a lot, and I mean a lot, of players, good and aspiring, a strong deep slice return from a serve often nets you a ball to the lower portion of the net. This is good. Most players also struggle with having to generate pace which can also cause errors. This is good. There is also an additional several poofteenth of a second gained with a slice return allowing further time to gain position.
That being said. 100% of what Zane has said is correct and impossible to refute. Unless I just did?
Did I?
No.😂
As others have pointed out, this is a tip for players 5.0+
Try this as a 3.0-4.x and the ball is likely heading into the bottom of the net.
I have definitely never seen a person on a court with me snapping off topspin like that off of a slice, but I will be trying that out now.
Great player, sound principles, but kind of terrible advice for a rec player.
The end part on returns flat is handy as an accompaniment to a good slice at the rec level.