This is crazy pants land!! Who the heck wants a child as a life partner? And not only a child, but a child you have to babysit nonstop because they have a penchant for cruelty. I hope anyone considering this pauses, recognizes their worth and makes a clear decision to not be a parent to an abusive ding a ling. You are worth more than being a mother to a ding a ling. You deserve mutual respect, and a relationship that allows you to grow, and be nourished.
It is crazy the partner to the Narc has invested a lot, like the gambeler at the pockies hoping it will change . The longer you play the more you loose ,, and 20 yr's passes and your dead like the through shear exhaustion.. I left, the cost was enormous he was the banker..
I hope your situation will change this is a social issues the cost to society is anormous , and it needs to be criminalised , good luck . 🤞 I hope things change in your favour.. from ozz
Exactly, and life is too short to be playing games. Games are childish and show a lack of maturity. Be careful where you get your information from. Not all information is from a honest or reputable source.
@@Confessions089 totally agree, I have had enough trauma without playing games, and as it’s my sister, l prefer to keep her at arms length, I don’t have the ability to think in a twisted way, I also don’t have the mental energy, or time for it.
@@Angie_Secret_Squirrel same here, it's a brother, one we have all tried to help for over 4 decades...silence is golden is by far the best motto...imo...the brain damage of it all is their twisted thinking
This man is right. Everytime a narcissist came for me I sent for them right back. My daddy taught me how to handle they asses. They are weak. They are insecure and they are powerless when you know how to attack back. That's when they leave you alone. There's not a narcissist I've come across that hasn't gotten a taste of their own medicine. If you don't give it to them back they will keep trying to mess with you they keep coming back. But if you knock them down by playing their game they won't come back. They see you will break their mask every time.
Exactly. This is what I did. Gave the narc a surprise whammy of her own medicine & have not seen or heard from her since. She disapeared into thin air 😮. I consulted God & asked him what to do or not to do, first of all. That's what he told me to do & it worked wonderfully 😂❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
They are actually at a disadvantage, because they have cognitive deficits that normal people don't. They're also very prone to magical thinking and many other patterns that are typical for early childhood. Sam described the points of leverage really well, and I have even used some of those methods against ppl at work (that I couldn't quite escape immediately without financial harm to myself). If you work with 50 people statistically you'll have 1-2 narcissists there (and a psychopath, a borderliner and 2-3 bipolar ppl). Learning to deal with them is far more valuable than running away.
We cannot pretend we play and don't participate with a crazy person and then think we're not involved in this drama. Because it will cost us out sanity.
When mine would act poorly, I would remind him that given all my flaws he had pointed out to me, and how much I wanted to improve myself, it was very important for him to role model good behavior for me.
It cannot last. You can act as a mother would but it gets tiring quite quickly. With an actual 2 year old you know they will eventually grow up and evolve through different stages of development. Their tantrums, demands etc... is developmentally appropriate. To do what you do what you do with child with an adult who in most cases is supposed to be your partner is draining. It's your entire life. Noone wants to spend their life like this. It will last only for so long. Before you are completely depleted. It's not worth it.
@@fattounaishgood towards a child, but a grown person you want a relationship with???? Rather have a functioning adult that is capable of emotional depth.
The thing is they always ask “well what did I do wrong??” And when you go into explaining WHY their behavior is wrong you’re essentially feeding them by buying into their game. I started replying with “you know what you did. We both know, and I’m not your mommy, I’m not going to explain your own behavior to you, I’m just letting you know that it’s unacceptable here.”
I like this, and journaled it. I edited "I'm just letting you know that it's unacceptable here." To: "I am telling you that it is unacceptable." If they persist or complain, I will just repeat "unacceptable".
I may or may not omit the “not your mom” part depending on the particular person and their pattern of reactivity. I tone down and use a lot less words and give them a lot less to work on, so then when they start gaslighting it seems all the more desperate and pitiable
I completely flipped the script on one recently to the point where he was struggling to really explain what it was that was so wrong with me to the point where they could only point at me and say, “that.” it’s hard not to laugh.
@@adenbuford7396 you get to the point where telling them “it’s unacceptable here.” Isn’t necessary. They feel it by your body language and eye contact that this isn’t the place to play anymore. Just hearing their behavior repeated back to them in a truthful, frank manner is enough for some
@@Kimberly-nw4ud I agree... Rather withdraw from the abuse ... But if you can't, don't be a reactive abuser ... Although this is an involuntary reaction, I'm against a premeditated assault to an individual with a natural inclination to harm themselves and others. It could lead to death
So true! They do the weirdest stuff! My ex kicked my garage door and broke it. Cut up my clothes. Has taken a nail or tacks and went all over my walls. Has thrown cans of drinks numerous times. The newest is he is now a free convict straight from locked up and comes at me like I’m a correctional officer but won’t touch me bc he will do ten years flat. (I’ve been dealing with this guy since 1998).
I never knew this was a thing they do. These people are disgusting in a way i was naive about I really wonder if he cleaned the toilet with my toothbrush @user-ue8mp7dt7q
Use these tips not to deceive, but to counteract when vulnerable. It makes you a survivor. There’s no pleasure in doing this. Only a necessity in times of strife.
Dr, you are 💯right. I tried to deal with it and I tried to leave, the punishment was unbearable, and it was all hell until I cracked the code... Now my life is bliss. I did everything you said step by step after I realized that he doesn't see me as a lover, I'm more so a trophy of some sort...I'm ashamed to take it to that level but I am stuck in his country with small children, I had no choice, I tried to love him, change him, divorce him, even hate him...only the manipulation works.
This is so helpful. Because narcissists hate for you to be right, when you affirm their "greatness" they don't know how to handle you. The more I build the narcissist up, the less arrogant he seems to act, at least around me. 👍
I'm with One since 19teen she a coward when it comes to standing up to other people or dudes they got her running around having sex with young boys in our building STDs brought back she 53 years old and paying them they ran train on her and join they Gang at 53 years old slut they talking about her like a dog I let her it and she walk off like she didn't and she go back and report my where abouts to some lil gangbangers, they live in our building we never had roaches they got roaches now the roaches in our apartment she been in there's and they been in mind when I'm at work,and she leaves work to come back to have sex and turning dates for them I'm getaway on this child molester sneaky devil stacking up my $ now.
GENIUS. I have been doing this subconsciously already. What I say and what I really think are two different realities! Ha. I found this very helpful. Thank you Sam. I am alienated from my daughter and I would like her back from the narcissists cult. Any advice gratefully received.
We live in a dishonest world. Honesty is often punished. We are capable of self reflection and accountability but this is devalued. False presentation is the norm. Paradigm shifting or revolution is often met with violence.
You cannot be yourself around them…. I find it humiliating….. I feel both stupid and too clever. I do nit know how to be cunning ….. I exhausted myself trying to please my now ex husband… We have three daughters and it is exhausting…… His reality is just that - his reality….. it has nothing to do with sanity….
Why would I want to use trickery and lies with anyone? I have no desire to become a liar in order to control a liar. I have no desire to control anyone other than myself. I am not that kind of a person. I’m not like my mother and don’t intend to act like her.
Well in may not be helpfull w gf but may w dealing w mother of ur child. If i point faults and wrong doings her grandiosity deflects all so i must find another way of dealing with..
I think this is for emergency situations only. Considering that normal people don't actually want to hurt other people, let alone toddlers (which narsistista actually are) this is dangerous info in the wrong hands. But if there is nothing else that works, you have to use these methods. But if you are able to think of them as toddlers, you just try to bear the situation and concentrate on your own life. Then you don't have to use these methods.
The best part of being abused by a narcissist is the unique opportunity you are going to have to know who really loves you. I was abused for my mother and her flying monkeys. She almost got me killed. But at the end only the strongest and the ones that really loved me stayed with me, supporting me, they were immune to her manipulation and conspiracies towards me. For those that at this moment are suffering from the abuse of a narcissist, there is hope and a happy end. Being abused by a narcissist is a cleaning process in your life. Everything is going to be alright and you are going to be free and happy.
Have been married 25 years to a narcissist. Experienced devaluation from the first day, extremely controlling behavior. I resisted initially, so it was a very ugly relationship. Then accepted the behaviour since i was coparenting. Then i accepted somemore and did all this just to avoid conflict. He was apparently tamed but the control issue persists. He wants me to feed his ego and simultaneously become a NOBODY. So, this didn't work 😢
That’s a really good way to put it. They grow and you diminish for sure. I hope you find a way out or a way to grow yourself despite that big greedy grey cloud
Game changing advice. I stopped allowing myself to be affected by the toddlers rediculous silent treatments and boundary pushing and stood firm and saw him throw his tantrums. It works but it still hurts that I have no support or love no one to care when I’m sick or need help no one to rely on except myself. I signed up for a partner not a male adult child to be a mom to. It has been a game changer now that I treat him like a toddler and act like a mom though. It is true your advice works. Now when he’s acting up I imagine him in a diaper with a Binky giggle inside and walk away. He will get no more supply from me.
This confirms a lot of my own wonderings and observations. One of the experiences I’ve had many times over is sharing ideas, goals and concepts, having the response be a very emotional devaluing deflection. Then they go out and do, buy or obtain the very thing I was talking about, that they said was stupid or whatever. They present it to me and everyone with”look at my genius and financial might” as if they came up with it by themselves. My guess is, what you said, they get a narcissistic injury because they couldn’t think of something like that, then do the overcompensation thing they do and do that thing to the very letter that was said to them? I have gotten so much from being able to hear you elaborate on your ideas or perspectives. I appreciate what you’re doing.
Oh yeah and that so annoying cause they actually think they are smarter then you even though they copy you. I had to get this one Narc “friend” when I noticed she started like mocking me on top of the copying. Gave her some info that she did not know…about her husband. She was of course acting like it was fine. And then rolled out of that situation…on top. The last word is the best word. 😂😂😂😂
You all do realize the narcs are qatching these videos too. They ñike me had no idea that their behavior even had a name. They are learning new ways of playing their games just like we are learning mew ways to cope or escape their traps
Samis helping us he's helping us to survive until we can get out it takes time to sort yourself your kids your property we all can't uproot and run thank Sam for your insight you know how all us are trying to get out
Sam watching you over the last 6 months since breaking up with my narcissist partner of 5 years is like putting together the jigsaw puzzle that was our relationship, bit by bit, piece by piece with every vid I watch. Thank You Sam. ❤
Same for me. I was just horribly discarded. It's the most sick experience of my life. I moved out but feel so isolated & confused. Hes off to the next thing before I even drove out of our shared home parking lot.
Once I identified the relationship I wanted with a narcissist, I naturally did what you described. All four techniques. After about 2 years,I got what I needed: he vanished. We should keep in mind how skillful they are. It was too painful and not worth of my time. Specially when they have reached certain age. Certainly a valuable learning experience.
This actually was the technique I employed with him for decades and it worked - all just a knee jerk reaction on my part. However... 10 years ago I started standing up to his verbal abuse, and he began physical abuse. Not frequently. 18 months ago, I had the audacity to have an idea, and he started threatening me with future violence. He was also practicing financial abuse through all of this. So I told him to either honor his marriage vows once more and treat me with something other than contempt, or to follow through with his constant threats of divorce. He replied, "Call a lawyer." Alleluia. Finally free of that maniac.
My mom told us she had 6 children -- the 5 she birthed and my dad. Until she figured that out, she had a horrible life with him. Changing her perceptions helped her act/react differently. She didn't have this knowledge the Doc is sharing today, but she had more emotional freedom. Basically he was her wild child, easier to love at a distance and easier to let him go his own way.
My ex came back into my life who is exhibiting schizophrenic symptoms, he’s been narc since I met him 98. But just the last few weeks he moved into my house in the spare room and it was so obvious he thought I was his mom! We have two minor kids that he has never been there for for the last decade. It was so weird! Police had to end up removing him (his behavior and he was using drugs). You are spot on I wish I would have watched this earlier to treat him like a two year old! It’s so true. thank you for your videos.
I used number 2 (Ideational misattribution) to get my ex to move out, although I didn't know what it was called or that that was what I was doing at the time. I knew that if I asked him to move out he would never go and it would cause a massive amount of trouble and also be very dangerous. People commenting on here that this is game playing are missing the point. Game playing is a usually subconscious method of using outdated ways of trying to solve a problem. Tactics used rationally and logically to get yourself to a safe place away from narcissistic abuse are something entirely different.
@@mirellam2431 My relationship may have had a different dynamic to yours, so it may not apply to your situation eg my ex is a covert narcissist and his supply was always achieved by goading me to be upset or angry . If he could make me cry or get angry/react to what he was saying he was happy. I wanted him to move out as I had had a light bulb moment and everything he was doing finally fell into place. What I did was stop reacting to anything he said and keep every communication with him very much non-committal and lacking any drama at all. I would agree with what he was saying, but again, not in a way that showed any emotion whatsoever and also using the tactic of making things seem to be his idea. What Prof Vaknin says about not sharing any ideas at all is very very important. Whilst I was non-reacting and appearing compliant I was very aware I was in a dangerous situation and went to Women's Aid for help and also went to a lawyer to get advice about legal and financial elements. The whole thing was very stressful, but eventually he came to me one day after 3 months and said 'I want to move out'. I carried on with the facade at that point so that the whole thing didn't backfire and only felt safe that it had all worked when he finally went ie he must continue to believe it was his idea. I hope that explains it in a way that makes sense.
@charliefarlie2884 thank you for reply. My husband is a covert narcissist. He has pulled all kind of tricks on me. From he is going to move out to wanting me to move out. I have a child. I'm still emotionally kind of invested but I'm ready to pull the plug.
Totally relate to this strategy… I’ve been trying it for a year now and I think it’s finally starting to work. Just out of fear of repercussions really, yes you are right. it may take longer but it’s safer if they think it’s their own idea. 😅
@@juliechambers7622but I get just kind of grey rocking and being non reactive but how do you get them to think it’s their idea to move out? That’s where I’m stuck. He will not and claims this is his house even though I’m on the deed 🙄
I can see how this would be useful if you have to maintain some contact with the narcissist through shared children and family ties etc, but my god, if you don’t have to engage, don’t. How exhausting.
Professor Vaknin, you are brilliant!! 😮🙌💪🏼😁😎. Thank you for giving us these suggestions. As you were saying them, I felt it resound in my mind-Yes!! This could work! 👏🏼🙌😎. I am not a manipulative person, but sometimes these disordered people need to be redirected to give us some relief.
I especially like the one where you said to not come up with the idea on our own, but to attribute it to them instead. Like, “sweetheart last week you said that I should take the vehicle in to be serviced. Actually now that I think about it, maybe I can bring it in tomorrow?” Thereby giving them the idea, but also allowing him the god-like power of asking if I may bring it in tomorrow. 😁💪🏼👍🏼🙌. Now I understand WHY my old ways of communicating did not work. I was passing off MY ideas as MY ideas.🙄. Wrong mindset.
Don't play narcissist games. I did that. I thought he would stop if I gave him a taste of his own medicine. When we stay with a narcissist we are self sabotaging our selves. When we give them a taste of their own medicine you pick up narcissist flees that stay with you. Best thing you can do is LEAVE... NO ONE is worth the head games. 2 years if healing
The narcissist ‘wins’ for only a certain amount of time. Education about the condition instilled a certain amount of defiance in me. It was certainly an ‘Anything you can do, I can do better’ attitude. The narcissist’s realisation of my realisation resulted in him banishing me from his world soon followed by hoover attempts that were ignored. He thrived on my ignorance in the first half though - second half then game over.
You mentioned that "Narcissists have been abandoned as children, neglected, mistreated abused, traumatised". What would be the kindest Method mentioned, to use? I am concerned that I might find these so enjoyable as to go down the slippery slope of sadism!😆
I am so grateful to you for helping to save relationships instead of telling everyone the narcissist is evil and you must leave them to be happy. I'm trying this today. I know it will take time. Thank you.❤
At grandson's wedding a number of years ago, the ex-narc decided to offer for me to go ahead of him in the food line. I refused to give him the satisfaction that he was seeking for self-gratification. You see, he was trying to look like the nice guy for the rest of those there. I took that away from him. He never cared to do such an act in the 20+ years we were together. Nope, he was first and foremost and I needed to bow to him. I didn't play into his game. He looked so exasperated.
My idiot Narcissist is a 2 year old in a 47 year old body. Throws tantrums and says NO like a 2 year old baby boy. His Mommy is his controller, enabler and God helps her boy who is 47 year boy. LOL This is actually very helpful and I'm love this. A real eye opener. Thank you for sharing this information.
I left a narc after 5 yrs it’s really draining and stressful to deal with mind games and love bomb from someone that’s supposed to be grown it was hard to let go but I got tired of just being used narcs are reckless and don’t give a damn about anyone but themselves and when the attention is not on them they throw a fit they also hate to be ignored it’s been a month since no contact with my ex nobody deserves my peace and sanity
🎉you nailed it! Thank you, finally someone who understands this issue. I can testify to the truth of what you are saying as I have gotten to the Mothering stage and it is the only way I've found that has any success. They are brilliant and difficult children so be strong and persevere. Thank you for affirming my reality.
I totally agree with this, Dr. Sam thank you for confirming what I’ve been thinking myself. I’ve stopped trying to resolve a relationship with a narcissist, and just accepted the fact that I’m better off being their pseudo mother. And for the most part, they don’t seem to mind they don’t wanna have to make decisions or take on responsibilities. So much for a romantic relationship at 66 years old. I have to be a mother all over again thankfully we live in separate parts of the house..
Depends what is going on. If you actually desire or love the narcissist, why not? As Sam says, we all ‘manipulate’ people in some way to get what we wish for whether they are psychologically normal or psychologically atypical. That might be as simple as adopting a certain style and appearance for a psychologically normal person we desire, maybe converting to their religion, to getting a hold on the narcissists mind and tailoring our interactions to those which work best for making them ‘stable’ in relation to ourselves. Life is complicated!
@@brentoneccles if you have to put that much mental energy into accommodating the narcissist then you will be chronically unhappy. Experts on narcissism say they cannot change they don't want to change and if you can and are able to get away from them that is the best thing to do. I've been with these types for 30 years and I learned my lesson It will drain you It will change you into somebody you don't want to be.
@@brentoneccles to love a narcissist ??? Someone has to be a narcissist too, a covetous person, except he wants to get something, or desires something from that narcissist.. money, housing, title, social status etc.. any average adequate person can't love a pathological / hell-bent person, like a narcissist,... in my opinion.. no way..
Omg Sam. I stopped one from taking over my life today. -an adopted kid with abandonment trauma whose biomother just tried to open a restaurant in my town after I moved 5 states away. Thank you for your pep talks, I have stood up for myself and my family and my space-peace. Plz delete.
Thank you Professor for this information. With respect, who on earth wants to go to that amount of manipulating work just to hang onto a dysfunctional day for day person. I could persevere for a while but at the end of the day I would get sick of this false game. I couldn't do it for the rest of my life. I would end up the bigger dysfunctional nutty one. I am referring back to my ex marriage partner. I was always on my toes, careful not to step on his, so exhausting, I prefer normal.
Thank you. It's fantastic that we're able to have this insight presented to us. I watched this a second time in order to go over my notes. Even if we don't study and employ all these strategies it gives incredible insight. To realize that treating my 50-year-old ~140 I.Q. partner more like a 3-year-old than anything else brings peace, is disturbing as hell. But I for one will follow the good doctor straight into the bowels of hell if it means finding the truth out about how some undeveloped... folks, legitimately _cannot_ love.
Good grief it makes me sick to pander to a narc - it would be a full time job which keeps the narc foremost in your mind which is what they want in the first place.
I'm trying to understand... Is this why when i met him he was capable and intelligent, but now (we're married) he seems to have "lost" his ability to make any decisions, can't answer questions, doesn't know anything? I feel like I'm drowning here- i don't know who i am anymore and i certainly don't know who he is anymore. It's either him raging/antagonizing or crying/whining or just plain acting like he lost his brain. He used to be completely different, and I used to have hope. Someone please tell me I'm not crazy.
Sounds like my mom and her supposedly narcissistic partner. He's like a baby who can't do anything without her help. I don't know how he survived before.
Yup.. brainless and boring -- completely helpless except for some stranger they want to impress. I stopped asking questions because he just shrugged his shoulders. He had plenty to say when I didn't want or need his opinion. Lol
Nope. You're using projective identification. Sounds more like you're destroying him, and playing the victim card. 💀 I can buy the way your framing and implying things and dancing around words. Do you say "blah blah blah" too? 😭 The more I read the more sick I get and the more I realize just how sick you people are, get fucking help 🥴 Somehow I'm aware of all my bs with no shame. Stop giving off the weight of your burden
you're not crazy. I'm still trying to determine if he is truly as dumb as he appears...or if it's a subtle act of aggression towards me. He seems to have intellect when he's impressing someone else or if he's working on something for himself. It's hard to believe someone can be so disassociated from having a conscience.
I've never heard anything like this before. This professor is fiercely intelligent: a self-inflicted trojan horse! Let the soldiers out of it's belly! But just because one can... I'm not sure it necessarily means one should? Eitherway - I love his turn of phrase and to give him the benifit of doubt I presume he's looking at the situation from a self-preservation perspective rather than being gratuitously manipulative. Like treating a computer virus by activating your own existing software?
Amazing! This is exactly what i've been looking to learn, already came up with the first stage on my own. This was very helpful! I'm enjoying more recent content in this vein as well. Gratitude!
Breathing, having any sort of individulity in my mother's eyes, creates an instant competitive discredit upon herself. Following emotional and strange inconvenient boobytraps until her self enchantment has run its course.
When you cant leave attempt to positively condition the narcissist in the same way they negatively condition us as the target supply. It becomes a chess game of will and can work when you aware of what you are dealing with❤
Misattribution. That absolutely works. If we were in a group of people, and someone asked how the house was coming along, I would start talking about something I wanted only I tookk the opposite side. When we built our house, I wanted white limestone outside. My OPN, own personal narcissist, wanted something else, I don't recall exactly but I know he didn't actually care and had made an enormous issue of it simply as a show of his mastery of me. I told the story, well, it was a story but none was true. I talked about what I wanted, which I completely made up, red field stone, ugh. Then I talked about how he thought white limestone would look and last much longer as wellas blending in to the historical aesthetic of our area. He doesn't even know what aesthetic means, but everyone said, sorry, he's right. If you're trying to keep to the 1880s feel of the area, it has to be blah, blah. Despite my having made the whole thing up, he knew I made the whole thing up, to this day he thinks and could probably pass a polygraph as to how the decision was made. It was the first time I'd done this, and it was purely a gut feeling that made me do it. We've been married close to 50 years and this is something that works but use it occasionally. I felt guilty about being so manipulative, but after realizing that I was stuck in what would likely be a protracted war, I stopped feeling guilty.
Do all these things, and I become a narcissist too! :) Thanks for pointing the way, but no thank you. I am not willing to “caretake” and manage the emotional well-being and behavior of another adult. Life is too short now.
Agrandosizing! Wow! Interesting. I learned to do this in my teens with my Narcissist mother. But I later labeled it force feeding. Like giving someone exactly what they want but in copious amounts. Their defenses drop and then that’s when I would deliver the “ medicine” so to speak. I would insidiously imply something that challenged their arrogance. It would have to be so gentle, covert, and seemingly naive in delivery. But then you can see them change their behavior or alter their pattern
As an autistic who was raised by a overt and a covert narcissist and has no reliable way to see when someone is good or bad until it's too effing late and YEARS have passed, this has being transformative, empowering and life changing. And to all the people that say "normal people don't do that"... Oh well. Good for you I guess. For the rest of us "non-normal" it is a way to take control of our lives.
Boy! This sounds like American dating coaches' advice for women! I understand now why I attracted a highly narcissist boyfriend. Will stop using these techniques with future prospects, but I will write them down for my next visit to my step father. 😊Thank you, Sam Vaknin!
My story is on my site under new content. The first question I usually get from readers is this : ‘how are you still alive?’ May have been luck may have been destiny. Karma is real. They get their comeuppance eventually.
This was very interesting to watch because it explained the narcissistic mind better to me, and the narcissistic traits mentioned here are ones I was subjected to, and then I walked away. Now, I can't be asked to do any of what is mentioned here. I am like a dog. What you see is what you get. This kind of stuff is not something I want to engage in. These are manipulative strategies to gain control over another human being, and I don't want to resort to false flattery, indoctrination and false aggrandizements of another for the sake of gaining advantage.
Thank you! There are some of us who canot leave and it is far better to do this, than have to move to a different location, away from support systems. I've always said, he is less of a danger to me, living with me than living away from me ~ "paying me back"/ getting even with me - every day, for the rest of my life!
@@TheGrubbFamily1 In a general way, I try to avoid confronting him about "anything". One way I've found to effectively manage these back and forth disagreements, is to say "Whatever!" in a non-chalant tone and walk away. Another is to avoid situations that trigger a problem - like avoiding going to a certain place or doing a specific thing together. From decades of my slow learning curve.....At all cost, I avoid putting any boundary down verbally - he LOVES boundaries and will absolutely bulldoze right over them and me. His thing is "Nobody is going to tell me what to do and I'll show you!!!" Long ago, I lowered my expectations of him - in every way. I have learned to live "around" him. I can't survive financially on my own at my age AND he would gather up my adult kids against me even if I could divorce him. Of course, some of this has been going on "forever" but I have learned to live superficially in regard to my marriage. Sometimes I wear thin, he knows the buttons to push and my red flag is me yelling back or feeling hurt - it's far more effective to simply say "Knock yourself out Bud!" and walk away. A therapist once told me to leave and go to a hotel for the night ~ are you kidding? We can't afford that! So I did a diluted version of that and left for about 4 hrs. When I got home, he was drunk and raging at me! My leaving actually escalated him. It works better to just go outside or go to a room alone. I'm no expert and probably shouldn't even offer an opinion - because each situation is SO different. I guess we all have to get knowledge and try out different things. It's also a mindset that we have to have - I imagine myself sitting up high in a stadium and I'm watching him and his show down on the field When it gets tough I say to myself - Stay in the bleachers! Don't go down there with him! Prof Vaknin, please delete this if I have expressed this incorrectly - I'm a wife, not a therapist. :)
❤ Dr Sam , have you seen the movie "What About Bob?" with Richard Dreyfuss as Bill Murray's new "shrink" . Dreyfus's colleague gets him to take his patient (Murray) by appealing to his ego... hilarity ensues if course. Thank you for the talk, Professor.
Yeah he's right. A person who my ex admired the most came to my defense.( His friend was secretly in love with me) My ex was mad and he started cheating on me in front of all his friends. And Oh my God he couldn't call it quits and kept trying to salvage the situation eventually publicly throwing me under the bus repeatedly I was the main supply so he spent years showing me off and talking me up to his friends so publicly treating me like trash made his friends turn against him. He had a collapse hahaha Who would have thought that people after children and animals tend to want to protect conventionally attractive naive women with a clean reputation ( especially men ) who would have thought haha. Im a codependent so yeah fawning helplessness is easy.
I wish I had seen this before breaking up with him. Now I have to "reverse hoover" myself back to him, get him to take that "snapshot," and set up a "shared fantasy" with him, so I can try all these neat little tricks 😂😂😂
I really like what you have to say and it makes a lot of sense I have thought about going back to school to study the ins and outs of NPDS I have a ÇNPD and I learn a lot from you ❤❤❤
I cannot stop laughing when you said he is cult leader and you are the member 😂😂 I didnt even know that I am member of anything they had been created and so can get w a vip card already?😅🙀🙏
This information is priceless. I was decades in and went on painful journey of awareness finally leaving but not completely as I still interact with him. So clueless was I but this is super helpful bc although I’ve physically left the home I still need the narcissist to fulfill certain aspects. Perfect and timely thank you for helping turn the tables!! lol as you were speaking of getting the friends to become my flying monkeys instead of his I realized that’s exactly what I’ve been doing unknowingly and yes 💯 I’ve seen results of this strategy.
thank you, dr. vaknin! you are so right! this technique works, and it's really not hard to do. sam's advice here is exactly how i keep my narc ex wrapped around my little finger when i want or need something. i'm working on doing the same with my narc sib--it's more of a challenge because they grew up with the narc injury of me being gifted and talented while they were "just" well above average. yeah, i know, well above average is pretty great, and narc sib is in fact a superstar and very successful, but if you're a narc and your kid sib is freakin' brilliant and you need to be smarter than them but just physically can't, it's a constant narc injury. there's so much of this i didn't know as a kid, so there are some old dynamics i've internalized that i need to relearn to use this all properly. narc sib doesn't remember a thing, so that at least is easy.
Just thought I would share this. My narcissistic brother wanted to humiliate my mother when she was dying and when she died. He convinced my dad he would care for her as she died, he photographed her in the throws of dying and sent the picture to her brother, sister and others. He also photographed her dead body in the casket. It was his ultimate revenge for the humiliation she caused him as a child.
He gets tickets to travel overseas and then screams on everyone don't have passports., should it be the opposite: first - prepare passports, second - get tickets or what? Hmmm. Thank you
Prof Vaknin...I have so many thoughts about this brilliant video, both parts. I'll try to be as brief as possible. First, you delivered in spades what you promised. The steps in the first video would bring a N to heel. Most other experts via videos just tell us to leave. Second, I now realize that my exN married a woman who did what you described in the first part: she became his mommy and he turned into a well-behaved puppy. I didn't know what I was dealing with, didn't know what an N was. Just as well that we divorced. I wouldn't have had the stomach to do the steps that you laid out. Hats off to her. In the second part of this video, you've helped me understand the world's shift to the right politically. Group think is powerful and reinforces itself. These are dangerous times. Why is there such an appetite for autocracy?? Is it the security and belonging? And superiority? There, I've answered my own question. Thank you. I dont mind telling you how brilliant you are, because I know you'll want to impart more wisdom to us mere mortals. Who else could educate us so brilliantly. (Nudge and wink)
This is crazy pants land!! Who the heck wants a child as a life partner? And not only a child, but a child you have to babysit nonstop because they have a penchant for cruelty. I hope anyone considering this pauses, recognizes their worth and makes a clear decision to not be a parent to an abusive ding a ling. You are worth more than being a mother to a ding a ling. You deserve mutual respect, and a relationship that allows you to grow, and be nourished.
Amen! If you get out, stay out!
LOL , haven't heard the phrase ( Ding a Ling ) in a long time.
It is crazy the partner to the Narc has invested a lot, like the gambeler at the pockies hoping it will change . The longer you play the more you loose ,, and 20 yr's passes and your dead like the through shear exhaustion..
I left, the cost was enormous he was the banker..
I hope your situation will change this is a social issues the cost to society is anormous , and it needs to be criminalised , good luck . 🤞 I hope things change in your favour.. from ozz
Court ordered co-parenting subjects victims to their perpetrators. I am living proof of this nightmare.
the thing is, normal people cant bring themselves to cause others any discomfort, it doesnt give any comfort to do that.
Exactly, and life is too short to be playing games. Games are childish and show a lack of maturity. Be careful where you get your information from. Not all information is from a honest or reputable source.
It's called survival
@@Confessions089 totally agree, I have had enough trauma without playing games, and as it’s my sister, l prefer to keep her at arms length, I don’t have the ability to think in a twisted way, I also don’t have the mental energy, or time for it.
@@Angie_Secret_Squirrel same here, it's a brother, one we have all tried to help for over 4 decades...silence is golden is by far the best motto...imo...the brain damage of it all is their twisted thinking
@@Confessions089totally agree.
This man is right. Everytime a narcissist came for me I sent for them right back. My daddy taught me how to handle they asses. They are weak. They are insecure and they are powerless when you know how to attack back. That's when they leave you alone. There's not a narcissist I've come across that hasn't gotten a taste of their own medicine. If you don't give it to them back they will keep trying to mess with you they keep coming back. But if you knock them down by playing their game they won't come back. They see you will break their mask every time.
Well said
Exactly. This is what I did. Gave the narc a surprise whammy of her own medicine & have not seen or heard from her since. She disapeared into thin air 😮. I consulted God & asked him what to do or not to do, first of all. That's what he told me to do & it worked wonderfully 😂❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
They are actually at a disadvantage, because they have cognitive deficits that normal people don't. They're also very prone to magical thinking and many other patterns that are typical for early childhood. Sam described the points of leverage really well, and I have even used some of those methods against ppl at work (that I couldn't quite escape immediately without financial harm to myself). If you work with 50 people statistically you'll have 1-2 narcissists there (and a psychopath, a borderliner and 2-3 bipolar ppl). Learning to deal with them is far more valuable than running away.
Excellent insight guys. But I need some practical examples 🙏
All you do is shit on them and they leave
We cannot pretend we play and don't participate with a crazy person and then think we're not involved in this drama. Because it will cost us out sanity.
Battling a narcissist is exhausting.
Manipulate and keep them at a distance
What did you try? Against who?
When mine would act poorly, I would remind him that given all my flaws he had pointed out to me, and how much I wanted to improve myself, it was very important for him to role model good behavior for me.
genius!
Super!
😂
😂😂😂😂
I love it
It cannot last. You can act as a mother would but it gets tiring quite quickly. With an actual 2 year old you know they will eventually grow up and evolve through different stages of development. Their tantrums, demands etc... is developmentally appropriate. To do what you do what you do with child with an adult who in most cases is supposed to be your partner is draining. It's your entire life. Noone wants to spend their life like this. It will last only for so long. Before you are completely depleted. It's not worth it.
I think the same. It seems like way too much work
Unconditionnal love ...
Agree
@@fattounaishgood towards a child, but a grown person you want a relationship with???? Rather have a functioning adult that is capable of emotional depth.
I can't get away from her. I had a stroke and can't really walk
Let alone walk away. I have been her prisoner for three years
Taking notes for psychological warfare defence
This is extremely valuable information for people who cannot escape a narcissist. Thank you Dr V.
The thing is they always ask “well what did I do wrong??” And when you go into explaining WHY their behavior is wrong you’re essentially feeding them by buying into their game. I started replying with “you know what you did. We both know, and I’m not your mommy, I’m not going to explain your own behavior to you, I’m just letting you know that it’s unacceptable here.”
I like this, and journaled it. I edited "I'm just letting you know that it's unacceptable here." To: "I am telling you that it is unacceptable." If they persist or complain, I will just repeat "unacceptable".
Wow I must write this down. Amazing.
I may or may not omit the “not your mom” part depending on the particular person and their pattern of reactivity. I tone down and use a lot less words and give them a lot less to work on, so then when they start gaslighting it seems all the more desperate and pitiable
I completely flipped the script on one recently to the point where he was struggling to really explain what it was that was so wrong with me to the point where they could only point at me and say, “that.” it’s hard not to laugh.
@@adenbuford7396 you get to the point where telling them “it’s unacceptable here.” Isn’t necessary. They feel it by your body language and eye contact that this isn’t the place to play anymore. Just hearing their behavior repeated back to them in a truthful, frank manner is enough for some
It’s easier to just leave than play these mind games 😂
😂👌
Not everyone has that option. Especially if they are surrounded by flying monkeys
@@Kimberly-nw4ud I agree... Rather withdraw from the abuse ... But if you can't, don't be a reactive abuser ... Although this is an involuntary reaction, I'm against a premeditated assault to an individual with a natural inclination to harm themselves and others. It could lead to death
So much easier!
Just leave , warn others. You cant fix this people. Pray for them from a distance
When the narcissist realizes you’re manipulating them, there will be hell to pay. Better hide your toothbrush.
😂😂😂
So true. He told me that he cleaned the toilet with his ex wife's tooth brush then watched her brush her teeth. Wonder what he did to mine.
So true! They do the weirdest stuff! My ex kicked my garage door and broke it. Cut up my clothes. Has taken a nail or tacks and went all over my walls. Has thrown cans of drinks numerous times. The newest is he is now a free convict straight from locked up and comes at me like I’m a correctional officer but won’t touch me bc he will do ten years flat. (I’ve been dealing with this guy since 1998).
I never knew this was a thing they do. These people are disgusting in a way i was naive about I really wonder if he cleaned the toilet with my toothbrush @user-ue8mp7dt7q
😂😂😂
Use these tips not to deceive, but to counteract when vulnerable. It makes you a survivor. There’s no pleasure in doing this. Only a necessity in times of strife.
Yes, I agree 100%
Dr, you are 💯right. I tried to deal with it and I tried to leave, the punishment was unbearable, and it was all hell until I cracked the code... Now my life is bliss. I did everything you said step by step after I realized that he doesn't see me as a lover, I'm more so a trophy of some sort...I'm ashamed to take it to that level but I am stuck in his country with small children, I had no choice, I tried to love him, change him, divorce him, even hate him...only the manipulation works.
This is so helpful. Because narcissists hate for you to be right, when you affirm their "greatness" they don't know how to handle you. The more I build the narcissist up, the less arrogant he seems to act, at least around me. 👍
I stopped taking them serious even when they are dangerous 🤣🤣
Yes they are clowns lol
@DaisyCruz-yr3bu It’s actually hilarious if you take a step back and watch the show.
I'm with One since 19teen she a coward when it comes to standing up to other people or dudes they got her running around having sex with young boys in our building STDs brought back she 53 years old and paying them they ran train on her and join they Gang at 53 years old slut they talking about her like a dog I let her it and she walk off like she didn't and she go back and report my where abouts to some lil gangbangers, they live in our building we never had roaches they got roaches now the roaches in our apartment she been in there's and they been in mind when I'm at work,and she leaves work to come back to have sex and turning dates for them I'm getaway on this child molester sneaky devil stacking up my $ now.
😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😅
😂😂😂
My children’s father can’t even look in my face. He literally RUNS every time he is in my presence.
GENIUS. I have been doing this subconsciously already. What I say and what I really think are two different realities! Ha. I found this very helpful. Thank you Sam. I am alienated from my daughter and I would like her back from the narcissists cult. Any advice gratefully received.
Same
Me too. I thought as I was talking like his mummy. "Have you got your phone etc etc. I felt he liked it but it was creepy to me.
But how long will one continue living this way...being fake
For ever😂
We live in a dishonest world. Honesty is often punished.
We are capable of self reflection and accountability but this is devalued. False presentation is the norm. Paradigm shifting or revolution is often met with violence.
Sam, you're using your powers for the good of All. Thank you!
Hell yeah, flatter him into giving us even more info on how to make narcs shake in their boots. Love it, Sam!
You cannot be yourself around them…. I find it humiliating….. I feel both stupid and too clever. I do nit know how to be cunning ….. I exhausted myself trying to please my now ex husband…
We have three daughters and it is exhausting……
His reality is just that - his reality….. it has nothing to do with sanity….
this sounds so familiar 😣
Why would I want to use trickery and lies with anyone? I have no desire to become a liar in order to control a liar. I have no desire to control anyone other than myself. I am not that kind of a person. I’m not like my mother and don’t intend to act like her.
Well in may not be helpfull w gf but may w dealing w mother of ur child. If i point faults and wrong doings her grandiosity deflects all so i must find another way of dealing with..
I think this is for emergency situations only. Considering that normal people don't actually want to hurt other people, let alone toddlers (which narsistista actually are) this is dangerous info in the wrong hands. But if there is nothing else that works, you have to use these methods. But if you are able to think of them as toddlers, you just try to bear the situation and concentrate on your own life. Then you don't have to use these methods.
The best part of being abused by a narcissist is the unique opportunity you are going to have to know who really loves you. I was abused for my mother and her flying monkeys. She almost got me killed. But at the end only the strongest and the ones that really loved me stayed with me, supporting me, they were immune to her manipulation and conspiracies towards me.
For those that at this moment are suffering from the abuse of a narcissist, there is hope and a happy end. Being abused by a narcissist is a cleaning process in your life. Everything is going to be alright and you are going to be free and happy.
Sounds exhausting. Think a divorce will be less painful 😂
Indeed it is. Personal experience here. 23 yrs with one. If you have lost yourself and they are draining you… get out!!
So true!! 😂😂
Or move geographically, and don't let them rent space in your head
What if it is your step mother?
Be ready to see a monster during divorce or if they suspect it.
Have been married 25 years to a narcissist. Experienced devaluation from the first day, extremely controlling behavior. I resisted initially, so it was a very ugly relationship. Then accepted the behaviour since i was coparenting. Then i accepted somemore and did all this just to avoid conflict. He was apparently tamed but the control issue persists. He wants me to feed his ego and simultaneously become a NOBODY. So, this didn't work 😢
That’s a really good way to put it. They grow and you diminish for sure.
I hope you find a way out or a way to grow yourself despite that big greedy grey cloud
Were you coparenting with him during a separation ?
No. Married and living together. @@taneyat6_33
When I want something from someone I ask them..that is not manipulation. If they say no..move on. Being honest is not manipulation..
👍🏼
Game changing advice. I stopped allowing myself to be affected by the toddlers rediculous silent treatments and boundary pushing and stood firm and saw him throw his tantrums. It works but it still hurts that I have no support or love no one to care when I’m sick or need help no one to rely on except myself. I signed up for a partner not a male adult child to be a mom to. It has been a game changer now that I treat him like a toddler and act like a mom though. It is true your advice works. Now when he’s acting up I imagine him in a diaper with a Binky giggle inside and walk away. He will get no more supply from me.
My advice would be to flee in the night and never look back. It’s horrendous if kids are involved
TASTE OF OWN MEDICINE is sooo powerful...necessary yet evil...I will do this for self preservation THANK YOU!!!!!!
This confirms a lot of my own wonderings and observations. One of the experiences I’ve had many times over is sharing ideas, goals and concepts, having the response be a very emotional devaluing deflection. Then they go out and do, buy or obtain the very thing I was talking about, that they said was stupid or whatever. They present it to me and everyone with”look at my genius and financial might” as if they came up with it by themselves.
My guess is, what you said, they get a narcissistic injury because they couldn’t think of something like that, then do the overcompensation thing they do and do that thing to the very letter that was said to them? I have gotten so much from being able to hear you elaborate on your ideas or perspectives. I appreciate what you’re doing.
Oh yeah and that so annoying cause they actually think they are smarter then you even though they copy you. I had to get this one Narc “friend” when I noticed she started like mocking me on top of the copying. Gave her some info that she did not know…about her husband. She was of course acting like it was fine. And then rolled out of that situation…on top. The last word is the best word. 😂😂😂😂
Another remarkable talk which touches on a field I have great interest: cults. Thank you Sam.
and you realize that many "institutions" are essentially cults.
Thanks Sam your helping us
You all do realize the narcs are qatching these videos too. They ñike me had no idea that their behavior even had a name. They are learning new ways of playing their games just like we are learning mew ways to cope or escape their traps
Samis helping us he's helping us to survive until we can get out it takes time to sort yourself your kids your property we all can't uproot and run thank Sam for your insight you know how all us are trying to get out
Sam watching you over the last 6 months since breaking up with my narcissist partner of 5 years is like putting together the jigsaw puzzle that was our relationship, bit by bit, piece by piece with every vid I watch. Thank You Sam. ❤
Same for me. I was just horribly discarded. It's the most sick experience of my life. I moved out but feel so isolated & confused. Hes off to the next thing before I even drove out of our shared home parking lot.
I'm tired just thinking about having to do this again. It feels wrong and fake.
Once I identified the relationship I wanted with a narcissist, I naturally did what you described.
All four techniques. After about 2 years,I got what I needed: he vanished.
We should keep in mind how skillful they are. It was too painful and not worth of my time. Specially when they have reached certain age.
Certainly a valuable learning experience.
This actually was the technique I employed with him for decades and it worked - all just a knee jerk reaction on my part. However... 10 years ago I started standing up to his verbal abuse, and he began physical abuse. Not frequently. 18 months ago, I had the audacity to have an idea, and he started threatening me with future violence. He was also practicing financial abuse through all of this. So I told him to either honor his marriage vows once more and treat me with something other than contempt, or to follow through with his constant threats of divorce. He replied, "Call a lawyer." Alleluia. Finally free of that maniac.
My mom told us she had 6 children -- the 5 she birthed and my dad. Until she figured that out, she had a horrible life with him. Changing her perceptions helped her act/react differently. She didn't have this knowledge the Doc is sharing today, but she had more emotional freedom. Basically he was her wild child, easier to love at a distance and easier to let him go his own way.
My ex came back into my life who is exhibiting schizophrenic symptoms, he’s been narc since I met him 98. But just the last few weeks he moved into my house in the spare room and it was so obvious he thought I was his mom! We have two minor kids that he has never been there for for the last decade. It was so weird! Police had to end up removing him (his behavior and he was using drugs). You are spot on I wish I would have watched this earlier to treat him like a two year old! It’s so true. thank you for your videos.
I used number 2 (Ideational misattribution) to get my ex to move out, although I didn't know what it was called or that that was what I was doing at the time. I knew that if I asked him to move out he would never go and it would cause a massive amount of trouble and also be very dangerous. People commenting on here that this is game playing are missing the point. Game playing is a usually subconscious method of using outdated ways of trying to solve a problem. Tactics used rationally and logically to get yourself to a safe place away from narcissistic abuse are something entirely different.
How did you do it cause I need it very bad now?
@@mirellam2431 My relationship may have had a different dynamic to yours, so it may not apply to your situation eg my ex is a covert narcissist and his supply was always achieved by goading me to be upset or angry . If he could make me cry or get angry/react to what he was saying he was happy. I wanted him to move out as I had had a light bulb moment and everything he was doing finally fell into place. What I did was stop reacting to anything he said and keep every communication with him very much non-committal and lacking any drama at all. I would agree with what he was saying, but again, not in a way that showed any emotion whatsoever and also using the tactic of making things seem to be his idea. What Prof Vaknin says about not sharing any ideas at all is very very important. Whilst I was non-reacting and appearing compliant I was very aware I was in a dangerous situation and went to Women's Aid for help and also went to a lawyer to get advice about legal and financial elements. The whole thing was very stressful, but eventually he came to me one day after 3 months and said 'I want to move out'. I carried on with the facade at that point so that the whole thing didn't backfire and only felt safe that it had all worked when he finally went ie he must continue to believe it was his idea. I hope that explains it in a way that makes sense.
@charliefarlie2884 thank you for reply. My husband is a covert narcissist. He has pulled all kind of tricks on me. From he is going to move out to wanting me to move out. I have a child. I'm still emotionally kind of invested but I'm ready to pull the plug.
Totally relate to this strategy… I’ve been trying it for a year now and I think it’s finally starting to work. Just out of fear of repercussions really, yes you are right. it may take longer but it’s safer if they think it’s their own idea. 😅
@@juliechambers7622but I get just kind of grey rocking and being non reactive but how do you get them to think it’s their idea to move out? That’s where I’m stuck. He will not and claims this is his house even though I’m on the deed 🙄
I can see how this would be useful if you have to maintain some contact with the narcissist through shared children and family ties etc, but my god, if you don’t have to engage, don’t. How exhausting.
Professor Vaknin, you are brilliant!! 😮🙌💪🏼😁😎. Thank you for giving us these suggestions. As you were saying them, I felt it resound in my mind-Yes!! This could work! 👏🏼🙌😎. I am not a manipulative person, but sometimes these disordered people need to be redirected to give us some relief.
I especially like the one where you said to not come up with the idea on our own, but to attribute it to them instead. Like, “sweetheart last week you said that I should take the vehicle in to be serviced. Actually now that I think about it, maybe I can bring it in tomorrow?” Thereby giving them the idea, but also allowing him the god-like power of asking if I may bring it in tomorrow. 😁💪🏼👍🏼🙌. Now I understand WHY my old ways of communicating did not work. I was passing off MY ideas as MY ideas.🙄. Wrong mindset.
Don't play narcissist games. I did that. I thought he would stop if I gave him a taste of his own medicine. When we stay with a narcissist we are self sabotaging our selves. When we give them a taste of their own medicine you pick up narcissist flees that stay with you. Best thing you can do is LEAVE... NO ONE is worth the head games. 2 years if healing
The narcissist ‘wins’ for only a certain amount of time. Education about the condition instilled a certain amount of defiance in me. It was certainly an ‘Anything you can do, I can do better’ attitude. The narcissist’s realisation of my realisation resulted in him banishing me from his world soon followed by hoover attempts that were ignored. He thrived on my ignorance in the first half though - second half then game over.
You mentioned that "Narcissists have been abandoned as children, neglected, mistreated abused, traumatised". What would be the kindest Method mentioned, to use? I am concerned that I might find these so enjoyable as to go down the slippery slope of sadism!😆
😂😂😂
I am so grateful to you for helping to save relationships instead of telling everyone the narcissist is evil and you must leave them to be happy. I'm trying this today. I know it will take time. Thank you.❤
At grandson's wedding a number of years ago, the ex-narc decided to offer for me to go ahead of him in the food line. I refused to give him the satisfaction that he was seeking for self-gratification. You see, he was trying to look like the nice guy for the rest of those there. I took that away from him. He never cared to do such an act in the 20+ years we were together. Nope, he was first and foremost and I needed to bow to him. I didn't play into his game. He looked so exasperated.
Well done.
You're the narc btw.
This is how projective identification works.
Humans do like to make little gestures to rebuild trust. You're broken 😂
My idiot Narcissist is a 2 year old in a 47 year old body. Throws tantrums and says NO like a 2 year old baby boy. His Mommy is his controller, enabler and God helps her boy who is 47 year boy. LOL This is actually very helpful and I'm love this. A real eye opener. Thank you for sharing this information.
I left a narc after 5 yrs it’s really draining and stressful to deal with mind games and love bomb from someone that’s supposed to be grown it was hard to let go but I got tired of just being used narcs are reckless and don’t give a damn about anyone but themselves and when the attention is not on them they throw a fit they also hate to be ignored it’s been a month since no contact with my ex nobody deserves my peace and sanity
🎉you nailed it! Thank you, finally someone who understands this issue. I can testify to the truth of what you are saying as I have gotten to the Mothering stage and it is the only way I've found that has any success. They are brilliant and difficult children so be strong and persevere. Thank you for affirming my reality.
These tips would make an excellent exit strategy, especially when you have kids and need them yo cooperate.
I totally agree with this, Dr. Sam thank you for confirming what I’ve been thinking myself. I’ve stopped trying to resolve a relationship with a narcissist, and just accepted the fact that I’m better off being their pseudo mother. And for the most part, they don’t seem to mind they don’t wanna have to make decisions or take on responsibilities. So much for a romantic relationship at 66 years old. I have to be a mother all over again thankfully we live in separate parts of the house..
man the truth you know is incredible... helps me a lot even if it is very frightening to look at my own shadow
Don't try to deal or get revenge on a narc, it's futile. Just get away.
Depends what is going on. If you actually desire or love the narcissist, why not? As Sam says, we all ‘manipulate’ people in some way to get what we wish for whether they are psychologically normal or psychologically atypical. That might be as simple as adopting a certain style and appearance for a psychologically normal person we desire, maybe converting to their religion, to getting a hold on the narcissists mind and tailoring our interactions to those which work best for making them ‘stable’ in relation to ourselves. Life is complicated!
@@brentoneccles if you have to put that much mental energy into accommodating the narcissist then you will be chronically unhappy.
Experts on narcissism say they cannot change they don't want to change and if you can and are able to get away from them that is the best thing to do.
I've been with these types for 30 years and I learned my lesson It will drain you It will change you into somebody you don't want to be.
@@brentoneccles
to love a narcissist ??? Someone has to be a narcissist too, a covetous person, except he wants to get something, or desires something from that narcissist.. money, housing, title, social status etc..
any average adequate person can't love a pathological / hell-bent person, like a narcissist,...
in my opinion.. no way..
Omg Sam. I stopped one from taking over my life today. -an adopted kid with abandonment trauma whose biomother just tried to open a restaurant in my town after I moved 5 states away. Thank you for your pep talks, I have stood up for myself and my family and my space-peace. Plz delete.
Thank you Professor for this information. With respect, who on earth wants to go to that amount of manipulating work just to hang onto a dysfunctional day for day person. I could persevere for a while but at the end of the day I would get sick of this false game. I couldn't do it for the rest of my life. I would end up the bigger dysfunctional nutty one. I am referring back to my ex marriage partner. I was always on my toes, careful not to step on his, so exhausting, I prefer normal.
Thank you.
It's fantastic that we're able to have this insight presented to us. I watched this a second time in order to go over my notes.
Even if we don't study and employ all these strategies it gives incredible insight. To realize that treating my 50-year-old ~140 I.Q. partner more like a 3-year-old than anything else brings peace, is disturbing as hell.
But I for one will follow the good doctor straight into the bowels of hell if it means finding the truth out about how some undeveloped... folks, legitimately _cannot_ love.
Good grief it makes me sick to pander to a narc - it would be a full time job which keeps the narc foremost in your mind which is what they want in the first place.
It’s not worth it …. I left
I'm trying to understand... Is this why when i met him he was capable and intelligent, but now (we're married) he seems to have "lost" his ability to make any decisions, can't answer questions, doesn't know anything?
I feel like I'm drowning here- i don't know who i am anymore and i certainly don't know who he is anymore. It's either him raging/antagonizing or crying/whining or just plain acting like he lost his brain. He used to be completely different, and I used to have hope.
Someone please tell me I'm not crazy.
Sounds like my mom and her supposedly narcissistic partner. He's like a baby who can't do anything without her help. I don't know how he survived before.
Yup.. brainless and boring -- completely helpless except for some stranger they want to impress. I stopped asking questions because he just shrugged his shoulders. He had plenty to say when I didn't want or need his opinion. Lol
Nope.
You're using projective identification. Sounds more like you're destroying him, and playing the victim card. 💀
I can buy the way your framing and implying things and dancing around words.
Do you say "blah blah blah" too? 😭
The more I read the more sick I get and the more I realize just how sick you people are, get fucking help 🥴
Somehow I'm aware of all my bs with no shame. Stop giving off the weight of your burden
you're not crazy. I'm still trying to determine if he is truly as dumb as he appears...or if it's a subtle act of aggression towards me. He seems to have intellect when he's impressing someone else or if he's working on something for himself. It's hard to believe someone can be so disassociated from having a conscience.
@@laurie500sounds like hard job.. take a hike before too late...and dont try to figure out wast of time
I've never heard anything like this before. This professor is fiercely intelligent: a self-inflicted trojan horse! Let the soldiers out of it's belly! But just because one can... I'm not sure it necessarily means one should? Eitherway - I love his turn of phrase and to give him the benifit of doubt I presume he's looking at the situation from a self-preservation perspective rather than being gratuitously manipulative. Like treating a computer virus by activating your own existing software?
Amazing! This is exactly what i've been looking to learn, already came up with the first stage on my own. This was very helpful! I'm enjoying more recent content in this vein as well. Gratitude!
This might fix my workplace. I can see it. Thank you do much!
This is all so spectacularly fascinating and vast.
I get sick of them , no way to communicate . They love drama,
Breathing, having any sort of individulity in my mother's eyes, creates an instant competitive discredit upon herself.
Following emotional and strange inconvenient boobytraps until her self enchantment has run its course.
This was the most empowering video you have ever made.
Haha, this is how I treated all board members in my former company.
When you cant leave attempt to positively condition the narcissist in the same way they negatively condition us as the target supply. It becomes a chess game of will and can work when you aware of what you are dealing with❤
How do you do this?
Misattribution. That absolutely works. If we were in a group of people, and someone asked how the house was coming along, I would start talking about something I wanted only I tookk the opposite side. When we built our house, I wanted white limestone outside. My OPN, own personal narcissist, wanted something else, I don't recall exactly but I know he didn't actually care and had made an enormous issue of it simply as a show of his mastery of me. I told the story, well, it was a story but none was true. I talked about what I wanted, which I completely made up, red field stone, ugh. Then I talked about how he thought white limestone would look and last much longer as wellas blending in to the historical aesthetic of our area. He doesn't even know what aesthetic means, but everyone said, sorry, he's right. If you're trying to keep to the 1880s feel of the area, it has to be blah, blah. Despite my having made the whole thing up, he knew I made the whole thing up, to this day he thinks and could probably pass a polygraph as to how the decision was made. It was the first time I'd done this, and it was purely a gut feeling that made me do it. We've been married close to 50 years and this is something that works but use it occasionally. I felt guilty about being so manipulative, but after realizing that I was stuck in what would likely be a protracted war, I stopped feeling guilty.
Thank You Professor Sam. Only You could give us this fascinating information so clearly. You’re My Hero!! ❤
Very interesting advice, thank you. Holding statements whilst removing the supply of ‘nectar’
Do all these things, and I become a narcissist too! :) Thanks for pointing the way, but no thank you. I am not willing to “caretake” and manage the emotional well-being and behavior of another adult. Life is too short now.
Agrandosizing! Wow! Interesting. I learned to do this in my teens with my Narcissist mother. But I later labeled it force feeding. Like giving someone exactly what they want but in copious amounts. Their defenses drop and then that’s when I would deliver the “ medicine” so to speak. I would insidiously imply something that challenged their arrogance. It would have to be so gentle, covert, and seemingly naive in delivery. But then you can see them change their behavior or alter their pattern
Thank U Sam for your helpfull Videos !!!! IT Opened my eyes
As an autistic who was raised by a overt and a covert narcissist and has no reliable way to see when someone is good or bad until it's too effing late and YEARS have passed, this has being transformative, empowering and life changing.
And to all the people that say "normal people don't do that"... Oh well. Good for you I guess.
For the rest of us "non-normal" it is a way to take control of our lives.
He used to take my ideas and make his own ideas and used to tell me shut up you don’t talk but used to ask me about those ideas
Boy! This sounds like American dating coaches' advice for women! I understand now why I attracted a highly narcissist boyfriend. Will stop using these techniques with future prospects, but I will write them down for my next visit to my step father. 😊Thank you, Sam Vaknin!
Haha, so true! hilarious 😂
Sam you are brilliant!
My story is on my site under new content. The first question I usually get from readers is this : ‘how are you still alive?’ May have been luck may have been destiny. Karma is real. They get their comeuppance eventually.
This was very interesting to watch because it explained the narcissistic mind better to me, and the narcissistic traits mentioned here are ones I was subjected to, and then I walked away. Now, I can't be asked to do any of what is mentioned here. I am like a dog. What you see is what you get. This kind of stuff is not something I want to engage in. These are manipulative strategies to gain control over another human being, and I don't want to resort to false flattery, indoctrination and false aggrandizements of another for the sake of gaining advantage.
Thank you! There are some of us who canot leave and it is far better to do this, than have to move to a different location, away from support systems. I've always said, he is less of a danger to me, living with me than living away from me ~ "paying me back"/ getting even with me - every day, for the rest of my life!
What have you done exactly that helps? I’m stuck as well and don’t want to have to share the kids 50/50
@@TheGrubbFamily1 In a general way, I try to avoid confronting him about "anything". One way I've found to effectively manage these back and forth disagreements, is to say "Whatever!" in a non-chalant tone and walk away. Another is to avoid situations that trigger a problem - like avoiding going to a certain place or doing a specific thing together.
From decades of my slow learning curve.....At all cost, I avoid putting any boundary down verbally - he LOVES boundaries and will absolutely bulldoze right over them and me. His thing is "Nobody is going to tell me what to do and I'll show you!!!" Long ago, I lowered my expectations of him - in every way. I have learned to live "around" him. I can't survive financially on my own at my age AND he would gather up my adult kids against me even if I could divorce him. Of course, some of this has been going on "forever" but I have learned to live superficially in regard to my marriage.
Sometimes I wear thin, he knows the buttons to push and my red flag is me yelling back or feeling hurt - it's far more effective to simply say "Knock yourself out Bud!" and walk away.
A therapist once told me to leave and go to a hotel for the night ~ are you kidding? We can't afford that! So I did a diluted version of that and left for about 4 hrs. When I got home, he was drunk and raging at me! My leaving actually escalated him. It works better to just go outside or go to a room alone.
I'm no expert and probably shouldn't even offer an opinion - because each situation is SO different. I guess we all have to get knowledge and try out different things.
It's also a mindset that we have to have - I imagine myself sitting up high in a stadium and I'm watching him and his show down on the field When it gets tough I say to myself - Stay in the bleachers! Don't go down there with him!
Prof Vaknin, please delete this if I have expressed this incorrectly - I'm a wife, not a therapist. :)
Sam, I love you, you are so educated ❤
❤ Dr Sam , have you seen the movie "What About Bob?" with Richard Dreyfuss as Bill Murray's new "shrink" . Dreyfus's colleague gets him to take his patient (Murray) by appealing to his ego... hilarity ensues if course. Thank you for the talk, Professor.
The DVD has French language setting!
They delight in drama. I’m not into that if I want to survive.
Yeah he's right. A person who my ex admired the most came to my defense.( His friend was secretly in love with me) My ex was mad and he started cheating on me in front of all his friends.
And Oh my God he couldn't call it quits and kept trying to salvage the situation eventually publicly throwing me under the bus repeatedly I was the main supply so he spent years showing me off and talking me up to his friends so publicly treating me like trash made his friends turn against him. He had a collapse hahaha
Who would have thought that people after children and animals tend to want to protect conventionally attractive naive women with a clean reputation ( especially men ) who would have thought haha. Im a codependent so yeah fawning helplessness is easy.
I wish I had seen this before breaking up with him. Now I have to "reverse hoover" myself back to him, get him to take that "snapshot," and set up a "shared fantasy" with him, so I can try all these neat little tricks 😂😂😂
I really like what you have to say and it makes a lot of sense I have thought about going back to school to study the ins and outs of NPDS I have a ÇNPD and I learn a lot from you ❤❤❤
Very affective advise. Thank you.
I cannot stop laughing when you said he is cult leader and you are the member 😂😂 I didnt even know that I am member of anything they had been created and so can get w a vip card already?😅🙀🙏
Thanks so much Sam, this is really valuable information.
This information is priceless. I was decades in and went on painful journey of awareness finally leaving but not completely as I still interact with him. So clueless was I but this is super helpful bc although I’ve physically left the home I still need the narcissist to fulfill certain aspects. Perfect and timely thank you for helping turn the tables!! lol as you were speaking of getting the friends to become my flying monkeys instead of his I realized that’s exactly what I’ve been doing unknowingly and yes 💯 I’ve seen results of this strategy.
thank you, dr. vaknin! you are so right! this technique works, and it's really not hard to do. sam's advice here is exactly how i keep my narc ex wrapped around my little finger when i want or need something. i'm working on doing the same with my narc sib--it's more of a challenge because they grew up with the narc injury of me being gifted and talented while they were "just" well above average. yeah, i know, well above average is pretty great, and narc sib is in fact a superstar and very successful, but if you're a narc and your kid sib is freakin' brilliant and you need to be smarter than them but just physically can't, it's a constant narc injury. there's so much of this i didn't know as a kid, so there are some old dynamics i've internalized that i need to relearn to use this all properly. narc sib doesn't remember a thing, so that at least is easy.
I have been doing this for the past year and it works.
Can you give some examples please
Yes I would love some examples as well
Just thought I would share this. My narcissistic brother wanted to humiliate my mother when she was dying and when she died. He convinced my dad he would care for her as she died, he photographed her in the throws of dying and sent the picture to her brother, sister and others. He also photographed her dead body in the casket. It was his ultimate revenge for the humiliation she caused him as a child.
Sam, thank you for this!! Massive help and encouragement!
He gets tickets to travel overseas and then screams on everyone don't have passports., should it be the opposite: first - prepare passports, second - get tickets or what? Hmmm. Thank you
I work with one of these, this is brilliant advice ! Thank you!
Sam is the greatest!! He saved my life!
Leaving will be a lot easier for me
Prof Vaknin...I have so many thoughts about this brilliant video, both parts. I'll try to be as brief as possible.
First, you delivered in spades what you promised. The steps in the first video would bring a N to heel. Most other experts via videos just tell us to leave.
Second, I now realize that my exN married a woman who did what you described in the first part: she became his mommy and he turned into a well-behaved puppy. I didn't know what I was dealing with, didn't know what an N was. Just as well that we divorced. I wouldn't have had the stomach to do the steps that you laid out. Hats off to her.
In the second part of this video, you've helped me understand the world's shift to the right politically. Group think is powerful and reinforces itself. These are dangerous times. Why is there such an appetite for autocracy?? Is it the security and belonging? And superiority? There, I've answered my own question.
Thank you. I dont mind telling you how brilliant you are, because I know you'll want to impart more wisdom to us mere mortals. Who else could educate us so brilliantly. (Nudge and wink)