The reason meth is added to water is to accelerate the evaporation rate. Cooling only occurs during the evaporation phase,once evaporated cooling ability has ceased. Hence the term latent heat of vaporisation. This is the amount of heat absorbed by the phase change. Optimally you want to stage the cooling to allow the final evaporation to occur right at the end of the compression stroke. You cannot compress fluid,only vapour. The volume injected into the volute will act as a solid on the compressor. If the mixture is not flammable you will suppress combustion. If the volume does not vapourise it will offer no cooling and could be a risk of hydrolocking. It could all work perfectly such is the rabbit hole of water injection. Just food for thought,great project by the way👌
Old video I know but... I've been running water methanol in my daily for well over a year now and it is fantastic! I mix my own 50/50 by weight. Surprisingly I don't use as much as I expected. Again it's a daily driver and I put about 2000 miles a month. And I go through 5 gallons of methanol is about a year. Really depends on how much I play but the car sees redline just about daily. I also carry a fire extinguisher too.
I ended up running straight meth - it picked up a fair amount of horsepower and over two tenths at the track. If you haven't seen it, here's the dyno video: th-cam.com/video/b9d5xv9INmw/w-d-xo.html and here's the track video: th-cam.com/video/RT0M88xHzNQ/w-d-xo.html
@@AlexLTDLX Water has more than twice the cooling ability of methanol. So if you want cooling, bias towards water. If you want octane boost, bias towards methanol. Both suppress knock but through different actions. Water lets you run high boost without the need to run a richer mixture. You need to bias towards your specific needs. And of course you need to need to tune to the specific ratio you are running.
These companies don't want you to run straight methanol because the seals in their pumps and tanks will 100% leak over time. They only recommend a 50/50 mix so it doesn't eat away at the seals and leak. It's not a flammability issue as this video clearly proves. Thanks! I have one of the most expensive kits out at the time and both the pump and the tank (twice) developed leaks running straight methanol.
Due to methanols low vapor pressure, I suspect that you are burning nearly 100% methanol as it evaporates off of the water. If you let the fire it burn itself out the alcohol would be mostly gone & most of the water would remain. You could reduce that by using both 32F methanol and water.
Water and methanol combine is exothermic reaction. You have to wait for the temperature to stop rising and then cool off from mixing water to cool off before you can test flammability. If you test it right after mixing it’s not truly mixed. It will be more likely burn that way. In my testing It takes about 20 minutes for the reaction to stop. Which is why at the end of the video you couldn’t ignite it
That's good info - I'll try mixing it up and waiting a while to see if it still ignites; if the results are different, I'll post a new video. If not, I'll let you know here.
I actually took the time to test this - I made a mixture of 1 part water and 0.9 parts methanol, and then I mixed it up and the let it sit (covered, so the methanol wouldn't evaporate) for about an hour. I didn't notice any significant rise in temperature while it was sitting, and afterwards, it was still pretty flammable. It might be my testing methodology, the fact that I'm using a butane torch lighter to ignite it, etc.
Does the combination of gasoline to the injectors and methanol to the cooling nozzles confuse the O2 sensor? Is proper tuning complicated by the intermittent use of methanol?
That's what I thought - particularly when it was on fire, some of the meth probably vaporized from warming up a bit. But another commenter pointed out that it takes a while for the meth and water to truly mix, because there's a reaction that occurs. I didn't know that. I'm going to test that, and if the results are different, I'll post a follow up video.
The contents of the "spittoon" probably didn't burn because the alcohol had evaporated to a lower concentration over the course of the experiment. A quicker way to find the burn limit would be to light the 50-50 mix and add water 'till it goes out.
Would be hard to keep track of real-time ratio while the methanol is burning out of the mixture. Too many variables and unknowns to have a solid scientific result.
In this video, you are putting water methanol solutions in direct contact with an ingnition source. It would be great to have a video in which you heat thr solutions... i think heat is more the issue in a methanol injection systems rather than ignition sources. Auto ignition temps of pure meth are around 450 C. That's why I would still consider water meth safe if you avoid any fume accumulation. Thank you!!
How effective would be 100% water injection. I hear the meth is mostly for the system not to freeze. BMW M4 has a water injection system from the factory and it adds +50hp
I think there are a number of factors at play. If the intake charge isn't above the vaporization temp of the water, then you won't see as much benefit, and probably will see a loss. Though it has a lower latent heat of vaporization, one of the many reasons injecting methanol works so well is that the vaporization temp of meth is much lower, so more of it vaporizes, and the resultant latent heat of vaporization has a big effect on intake temps. If your intake temps are over 100* c, then you'll start seeing more cooling effect from water, as it has a higher latent heat of vaporization. HTH
Water is not adding any HP buddy, engine is tuned in a way to allow more power with additional water injection being a fail safe mechanism(cooling mostly)
Try running dihydrogen monoxide with the methyl alcohol instead high quality H2O 😂 Also depending on the temperature of the mixture it can be very easy to ignite even at a low methanol concentration. Even windshield washer fluid can burn in a crash.
Tap water has a lot of extra junk that will either corode metals, leave deposites in system or the jets. Distilled water is clean as you are going to get it.
In addition to Ben's reply, methanol is also an oxygen-bearing fuel, which means it allows more fuel to be consumed because there's more oxygen available to burn (oxidize) the fuel, and that of course, makes more power. It's like nitrous, but with less oxygen. This is also why methanol-fueld engines make more power than gasoline fueled engines, all reasonable variable being equal; and this even applies to E85. In addition, methanol also increases gasoline's effective octane to about 110 (it's not a direct correlation, but that's the accepted equivalent), which allows for more timing under boost, or more compression at the same timing advance before detonation.
Can you please try lighting 50/50 (by weight or both if you like) with a spark as that's more likely the use case under a bonnet otherwise every petrol car (gasoline if you're US) would burn to the ground in a heartbeat... 50/50 doesn't vapour easily unless boiled which is why it's considered not flammable (I won't say inflammable). I will add that over 10yrs that I raced nitro RC cars (self made/mixed with 12-30% nitro, 6% bean/castor & 6% synthetic oil with the rest being methanol all by weight) l've never seen an incident of fire unless someone ignites it to have a laugh or to keep warm. It's a case of common sense though... You could also set up a flame with a MAP gas torch and use the nozzle to spray over it and see if that burns like a champion!
I'm not going to have an opportunity to test that in the near future (my upcoming videos will explain why), but I believe you. I'm more concerned about my particular use case - we've had plasma arcs big enough to almost saw through an aluminum ESC case that's over 6" (~150mm) long: th-cam.com/video/_n6hDRsMZd8/w-d-xo.html. I've also tried stick welding with one of my battery packs (we use two in series): th-cam.com/video/TlerchtDjxA/w-d-xo.html I did consider spraying through the nozzle and seeing what happens (and I'd still like to do that, to be honest), but at some point, I need to get this thing on the dyno and back on the drag strip. After this video, I think I'm just going to run 50/50 (by volume) and call it "safer" than running straight methanol... I hope that proves to be an ok choice.
@@AlexLTDLX Yes I wouldn't be concerned with the water/meth when you have batteries that are potentially way more combustible (unless it's LiFePO4 then it's good). Even with batteries you get a warning when the runaway begins. I'm following with interest though...
that was a useful video .. good work. I guess the question is is it really high quality H2O (distilled) or was it tap water, which they say don't use with the meth... I doubt is make much difference though.
I just ended up running straight meth. On my last trip to the dyno, the meth was 30% of my fueling. I did a video on that dyno trip here: th-cam.com/video/b9d5xv9INmw/w-d-xo.html And I did a deep dive on the meth injection data we gathered from the dyno session here: th-cam.com/video/mBM-2qIav74/w-d-xo.html And finally we took it to the track and got the LTD into the 9's: th-cam.com/video/RT0M88xHzNQ/w-d-xo.html
Lol. Don't worry - that's not Simon's bowl. I actually don't know where that thing came from. It's been kicking around the kitchen lately, so I used it.
At 150f the meth boils off no matter the percentage and it is flammable then add some boost to the equation and boom goes the intake. Dont float the valves
So the water isnt Flint Michigan water then? Jokes aside this was cool never messed with any if this stuff before personally so seeing it like this was cool
Lol. It was something that I couldn't find anywhere, so I figured if I'm going to test it for myself, might as well share. Another commenter pointed out that it takes a bit of time for the water and meth to fully mix (it's a chemical reaction, apparently - I didn't know that). I'll test that and if I get different results, I'll post an updated video.
I'm with you and I understand. There are a number of pretty significant reasons why things are moving slower than we all would like, but a lot of those have to do with drastically improving my ability to work on this. And the other side is family health, but I won't get into that publicly. As for the first point, upcoming videos will show what's been going on on that front - but I'll tell you since you asked, rather than tease ambiguous notions. I bought a property 1,600 miles away and am building a house/studio/shop space there to work on my projects. Shortly I'll be posting videos of some of that process too.
Water is a great coolant, and methanol is not. So the safety is about preventing freezing in winter, while keeping enough cooling in summer. Who cares about fire safety? The mixture is supposed to be contained.
Now what do you consider high quality H2O? Being a water well driller/pump installer for 20 years I have a different idea of high quality H2O then most do 🤣
The reason meth is added to water is to accelerate the evaporation rate.
Cooling only occurs during the evaporation phase,once evaporated cooling ability has ceased.
Hence the term latent heat of vaporisation. This is the amount of heat absorbed by the phase change.
Optimally you want to stage the cooling to allow the final evaporation to occur right at the end of the compression stroke.
You cannot compress fluid,only vapour.
The volume injected into the volute will act as a solid on the compressor.
If the mixture is not flammable you will suppress combustion.
If the volume does not vapourise it will offer no cooling and could be a risk of hydrolocking.
It could all work perfectly such is the rabbit hole of water injection.
Just food for thought,great project by the way👌
the volute is after the compressor though.
You will have misfires long before hydrolocking
Old video I know but... I've been running water methanol in my daily for well over a year now and it is fantastic! I mix my own 50/50 by weight. Surprisingly I don't use as much as I expected. Again it's a daily driver and I put about 2000 miles a month. And I go through 5 gallons of methanol is about a year. Really depends on how much I play but the car sees redline just about daily. I also carry a fire extinguisher too.
I ended up running straight meth - it picked up a fair amount of horsepower and over two tenths at the track. If you haven't seen it, here's the dyno video: th-cam.com/video/b9d5xv9INmw/w-d-xo.html and here's the track video: th-cam.com/video/RT0M88xHzNQ/w-d-xo.html
Fellow meth head here. I’ll never go back!!
@@AlexLTDLX Water has more than twice the cooling ability of methanol. So if you want cooling, bias towards water. If you want octane boost, bias towards methanol. Both suppress knock but through different actions. Water lets you run high boost without the need to run a richer mixture. You need to bias towards your specific needs. And of course you need to need to tune to the specific ratio you are running.
These companies don't want you to run straight methanol because the seals in their pumps and tanks will 100% leak over time. They only recommend a 50/50 mix so it doesn't eat away at the seals and leak. It's not a flammability issue as this video clearly proves. Thanks! I have one of the most expensive kits out at the time and both the pump and the tank (twice) developed leaks running straight methanol.
Due to methanols low vapor pressure, I suspect that you are burning nearly 100% methanol as it evaporates off of the water. If you let the fire it burn itself out the alcohol would be mostly gone & most of the water would remain. You could reduce that by using both 32F methanol and water.
Water and methanol combine is exothermic reaction. You have to wait for the temperature to stop rising and then cool off from mixing water to cool off before you can test flammability. If you test it right after mixing it’s not truly mixed. It will be more likely burn that way.
In my testing It takes about 20 minutes for the reaction to stop.
Which is why at the end of the video you couldn’t ignite it
That's good info - I'll try mixing it up and waiting a while to see if it still ignites; if the results are different, I'll post a new video. If not, I'll let you know here.
I actually took the time to test this - I made a mixture of 1 part water and 0.9 parts methanol, and then I mixed it up and the let it sit (covered, so the methanol wouldn't evaporate) for about an hour. I didn't notice any significant rise in temperature while it was sitting, and afterwards, it was still pretty flammable. It might be my testing methodology, the fact that I'm using a butane torch lighter to ignite it, etc.
Simply mixing the two liquids does not produce heat. The reason the mix at the end of the video wouldn’t light is because it was more than 60% water.
1:21 Volume is dependent on external factors like temperature, pressure etc. So, it´s always weight-to-weight. That should be obvious, by the way...
Last comment I made was about the pressure at the nozzles to get a given amount of volume. If your mixture changes the volume will change as well.
I wish to run these solenoids on a nos mini 2 stage progressive controller...
What Hz do these run at and how long do they generally last?
Was I the only one watching this video on edge, praying the bowl of straight meth didn’t ignite while he was burning in the test bowl???
I was kinda praying it did, for science
What’s better to use with pure methanol? Deionised water OR distilled water?
Does the combination of gasoline to the injectors and methanol to the cooling nozzles confuse the O2 sensor? Is proper tuning complicated by the intermittent use of methanol?
Not really - the best thing is to use lambda rather than gasoline scale air/fuel.
What happens if you use only water on a diesel application? I mean in the engine. Does it still bring egts and charge air temps down?
Curious if the meth evaporated out of the bowl as it sat there all that time?
That's what I thought - particularly when it was on fire, some of the meth probably vaporized from warming up a bit. But another commenter pointed out that it takes a while for the meth and water to truly mix, because there's a reaction that occurs. I didn't know that. I'm going to test that, and if the results are different, I'll post a follow up video.
The contents of the "spittoon" probably didn't burn because the alcohol had evaporated to a lower concentration over the course of the experiment. A quicker way to find the burn limit would be to light the 50-50 mix and add water 'till it goes out.
Would be hard to keep track of real-time ratio while the methanol is burning out of the mixture. Too many variables and unknowns to have a solid scientific result.
Well, this makes me feel better about my 100% meth system now.
lol. I ended up running straight meth after this too.
I’ve heard that O’Reilly washer fluid has a higher percentage. But I don’t for certain
In this video, you are putting water methanol solutions in direct contact with an ingnition source. It would be great to have a video in which you heat thr solutions... i think heat is more the issue in a methanol injection systems rather than ignition sources. Auto ignition temps of pure meth are around 450 C. That's why I would still consider water meth safe if you avoid any fume accumulation. Thank you!!
128oz/gal. = 71.5oz Methanol, 56.5oz Distilled Water - 50/50 mix by weight
What about for 1 gallon 50/50 mix
Hey Alex, the electrifiedboost site is down?!
Thanks - it seems to be up now... let me know if it's still not working for you.
@@AlexLTDLX yep started working again later yesterday, thanks!
How effective would be 100% water injection. I hear the meth is mostly for the system not to freeze. BMW M4 has a water injection system from the factory and it adds +50hp
I think there are a number of factors at play. If the intake charge isn't above the vaporization temp of the water, then you won't see as much benefit, and probably will see a loss. Though it has a lower latent heat of vaporization, one of the many reasons injecting methanol works so well is that the vaporization temp of meth is much lower, so more of it vaporizes, and the resultant latent heat of vaporization has a big effect on intake temps. If your intake temps are over 100* c, then you'll start seeing more cooling effect from water, as it has a higher latent heat of vaporization. HTH
Water is not adding any HP buddy, engine is tuned in a way to allow more power with additional water injection being a fail safe mechanism(cooling mostly)
The ending is interesting, did it mix better that point?
He burned off the methanol during the tests.
Can methanol bungs be used on traditional turbo setups?
Great stuff as usual.
Yes, absolutely
Try running dihydrogen monoxide with the methyl alcohol instead high quality H2O 😂
Also depending on the temperature of the mixture it can be very easy to ignite even at a low methanol concentration. Even windshield washer fluid can burn in a crash.
Lol - I actually had to look that up. That's pretty awesome. I like how someone even made a rather scary MSDS sheet for it...
@@AlexLTDLX kind of scary but true, water is the "universal solvent"
Try lighting the 50/50 mix when the meth system is spraying it into a mist. I bet it doesnt burn while misting.
What's wrong with just plain water?
Tap water has a lot of extra junk that will either corode metals, leave deposites in system or the jets. Distilled water is clean as you are going to get it.
In addition to Ben's reply, methanol is also an oxygen-bearing fuel, which means it allows more fuel to be consumed because there's more oxygen available to burn (oxidize) the fuel, and that of course, makes more power. It's like nitrous, but with less oxygen. This is also why methanol-fueld engines make more power than gasoline fueled engines, all reasonable variable being equal; and this even applies to E85. In addition, methanol also increases gasoline's effective octane to about 110 (it's not a direct correlation, but that's the accepted equivalent), which allows for more timing under boost, or more compression at the same timing advance before detonation.
If you asked a bartender they would've gotten it right first try, you need 40% abv to set a drink on fire...
LoooL
Can you please try lighting 50/50 (by weight or both if you like) with a spark as that's more likely the use case under a bonnet otherwise every petrol car (gasoline if you're US) would burn to the ground in a heartbeat...
50/50 doesn't vapour easily unless boiled which is why it's considered not flammable (I won't say inflammable). I will add that over 10yrs that I raced nitro RC cars (self made/mixed with 12-30% nitro, 6% bean/castor & 6% synthetic oil with the rest being methanol all by weight) l've never seen an incident of fire unless someone ignites it to have a laugh or to keep warm.
It's a case of common sense though...
You could also set up a flame with a MAP gas torch and use the nozzle to spray over it and see if that burns like a champion!
I'm not going to have an opportunity to test that in the near future (my upcoming videos will explain why), but I believe you. I'm more concerned about my particular use case - we've had plasma arcs big enough to almost saw through an aluminum ESC case that's over 6" (~150mm) long: th-cam.com/video/_n6hDRsMZd8/w-d-xo.html. I've also tried stick welding with one of my battery packs (we use two in series): th-cam.com/video/TlerchtDjxA/w-d-xo.html I did consider spraying through the nozzle and seeing what happens (and I'd still like to do that, to be honest), but at some point, I need to get this thing on the dyno and back on the drag strip. After this video, I think I'm just going to run 50/50 (by volume) and call it "safer" than running straight methanol... I hope that proves to be an ok choice.
@@AlexLTDLX Yes I wouldn't be concerned with the water/meth when you have batteries that are potentially way more combustible (unless it's LiFePO4 then it's good). Even with batteries you get a warning when the runaway begins.
I'm following with interest though...
Winter [40%] washer fluid burns but takes a little longer to start.
that was a useful video .. good work. I guess the question is is it really high quality H2O (distilled) or was it tap water, which they say don't use with the meth... I doubt is make much difference though.
i think because the tap water has minerals in it which may leave residue in the pump/injectors etc in the long term
This was just tap water. In the car I'll run distilled water just because I want to minimize mineral buildup.
But it's still combustible and ok to run such a low percentage of meth through the electric supercharger. Right?
I just ended up running straight meth. On my last trip to the dyno, the meth was 30% of my fueling. I did a video on that dyno trip here: th-cam.com/video/b9d5xv9INmw/w-d-xo.html And I did a deep dive on the meth injection data we gathered from the dyno session here: th-cam.com/video/mBM-2qIav74/w-d-xo.html And finally we took it to the track and got the LTD into the 9's: th-cam.com/video/RT0M88xHzNQ/w-d-xo.html
@@AlexLTDLX thank you so much for the response. I'm building a project car and want to do something based on your design. I love your channel
Great 👍
Please wash Simon's bowl out before you give it back. That's some high quality H2O!
Lol. Don't worry - that's not Simon's bowl. I actually don't know where that thing came from. It's been kicking around the kitchen lately, so I used it.
At 150f the meth boils off no matter the percentage and it is flammable then add some boost to the equation and boom goes the intake. Dont float the valves
That's not the meth you inject! Lol!
So the water isnt Flint Michigan water then? Jokes aside this was cool never messed with any if this stuff before personally so seeing it like this was cool
Lol. It was something that I couldn't find anywhere, so I figured if I'm going to test it for myself, might as well share. Another commenter pointed out that it takes a bit of time for the water and meth to fully mix (it's a chemical reaction, apparently - I didn't know that). I'll test that and if I get different results, I'll post an updated video.
before you get there I believe it's 60/40 doesn't burn
… where’s the electric supercharger??? I want more content about it and to see you kick it up… c’mon Alex…🙏🏼
I'm with you and I understand. There are a number of pretty significant reasons why things are moving slower than we all would like, but a lot of those have to do with drastically improving my ability to work on this. And the other side is family health, but I won't get into that publicly. As for the first point, upcoming videos will show what's been going on on that front - but I'll tell you since you asked, rather than tease ambiguous notions. I bought a property 1,600 miles away and am building a house/studio/shop space there to work on my projects. Shortly I'll be posting videos of some of that process too.
3:5 (3/8 meth 5/8 H2izzle)
Water is a great coolant, and methanol is not. So the safety is about preventing freezing in winter, while keeping enough cooling in summer. Who cares about fire safety? The mixture is supposed to be contained.
This test was conducted for my methanol injection setup; not for cooling - just fyi.
Now what do you consider high quality H2O? Being a water well driller/pump installer for 20 years I have a different idea of high quality H2O then most do 🤣
DISTILLED
@@stevenbradshaw6619 not my favorite but to each their own
Volume
Methanol or Ethanol, does the same job. If your in a hurry just use some cheap 80 proof Vodka.
Nope, different.
Evaporation
THE ALCCOL BURN NOT THE WATER..YOU CAN SPRAY A GALLON OF GAZOLINE ON A LAKE AND IT BURN , NOT THE LAKE
I know on aircraft, ratio was by volume.
Good to know - I didn't know that. It's certainly less flammable that way.