@@mrbiggles5389 EFAP are the ones disputing racism in the video they are criticizing, you numpty. This is what happens when you don’t watch the video and just assume based on the fact that they dislike a movie for which you clearly have a nigh religious affinity.
@@zjb2202 It’s quite engrained into his persona to defend the Snyderverse. It’s honestly fine to like them. I love BvS because of very surface level superficial reasons but I love to critique them and rip me to shreds regardless. It’s cathartic for me to know that I’m able to acknowledge flaws and still enjoy a movie. Because both are valuable. But I understand that the critique is more valuable to the art of film. I’d assume you have the same philosophy behind this as well. That’s what I appreciate about EFAP so much.
@@fluff6811 I’m basically in the same position. I liked BvS because those characters are my childhood and Batfleck was pretty badass. I also recognize that the story is an absolute mess and, even at the time, the fact that they pulled the Death of Superman in the second movie completely soured me in the theater. EFAP has definitely helped me express my opinions about art with a bit more substance. Now I’m more inclined to try to understand why I think a thing is a good or bad movie objectively, and separately whether I like it or not subjectively.
As a jew I can tell you that I find it extremely condescending when people ask me if I'm offended by the depiction of goblins in Harry Potter or something like that. If you see an Orc doing something bad and your first thought is "wow this is clearly supposed to be an allegory to a black person" the problem is YOU and not the media you're consuming
Should you be surprised that the symbol of hate (EFAP) has hateful views on minorities? Remember minorities are often religious and God fearing. EFAP, the enemy of God and the enemy of the people.
If a creator says “this species is evil and goes around murdering and plundering for fun” and someone looks at that and says “that reminds me of black people”, the problem is not with the creator
"We need to humanise these non-human creatures, also this group of humans is just evil with no redeeming qualities because they have at least one bad opinion"
@@mediocrestreams3284 You'd think they'd know bad game design is taking your players down a worthless tangent who's only purpose is to make you feel bad about killing things who only exist to make your life more difficult... that's called breaking immersion and it's basically bad storytelling 101.... They're not 21st century humans, they don't have to follow 21st century human morality, which is an artificial construct anyway and constantly changing. They just need to make sense within their fantasy world. Nobody playing the game actually gives a fly fuck why that orc is the way he is, only outside observers with their own hang ups... like an obviously mixed race youtuber projecting his identity crisis onto... orcs...
@@petriew2018 BAHAHAHA the amount of mental gymnastics the anti fan has to go through to make what is inevitably going to be a bad, nonsensical point is hilarious and is a feature of Snyder Derangement Syndrome, not a flaw; its comedy that writes itself. It's like watching feminist try and debate Jordan Peterson. It's hard to hate the toxic feminist when they are so unintentionally funny.
@@petriew2018 *" that's called breaking immersion and it's basically bad storytelling 101"* bahahahaha please do tell me more! Before you do though do you mind telling the audience what credentials or movie industry experience, writing or other skill relating to filmmaking you claim to have to make such assertions of good or bad storytelling. What films have you worked on? Do you like movies or is your mission as an EFAP troll to purposely misrepresent them and lecture the rest of us about what is 101 in filmmaking? Please, list your top 10 movies over the last 2-3 years, and tell me why they meet your standards of excellence. Should be funny.
@@mrbiggles5389 I have a brain and can actually read, making me considerably more of an authority than a 12 year old internet troll, so your presence is not required here... or anywhere, really...
It's probably not a good idea for Extra credits to incite violence on people you identify as nazis when one of the most infamous parts of their last controversial video was them not knowing what nazis looked like.
Again, these clowns said that Josstice League was better. Credibility zero. So nothing they say should make any difference as its all nonsensical , just lies and derangement. EFAP the channel of SDS (Snyder Derangement Syndrome) EFAP, the channel of hate.
@@mrbiggles5389 Do you have like severe schizophrenia or something? You've replied to damn near every top comment with almost the same unrelated spiel about them being "wrong" about Zach Snyder's ego project. If you actually think these things seek help, god knows where you'll end up if you don't.
I like how his main example of how a group can be evil is "They are racists, and not accepting of other races!" and then *immediately* goes on to promote diverse evil hiring practices.
On that same point, I don't think EC can talk about acceptance and not portraying a fictional faction as evil outright when these are the folks that go, "All gamers are N*zis", "all women are victims/children", "all men are perverts/sexist/misogynist". Also, Orcs are bad because it portrays an entire fictional faction as evil. We literally call people trolls online for saying things we don't like/things critical of us. Calling them Trolls should be racist then, right? Because its literally a term used for convenience, and you can then dismiss them without much credit. Like calling people "n*zis, fascists" etc., etc.
I was playing checkers the other day when suddenly I saw a move that would take out all the red pieces in the board, winning me the game. But before I could act on it I was struck by a realization. They didn't choose this, they didn't ask for this.
Just so there is no mistaking this channels zero credibility I want to remind everyone that Mauler and pals thinks Joss Whedon's Justice League was the superior version
Here's the history of the word "orc", it explains why orcs are evil. "late 16th century (denoting an ogre): perhaps from Latin orcus ‘hell’ or Italian orco ‘demon, monster’, influenced by obsolete orc ‘ferocious sea creature’ and by Old English orcneas ‘monsters’. The current sense is due to the use of the word in Tolkien's fantasy adventures." So Tolkien was calling his evil species with no redeeming qualities demons, and modern writers and game developers are copying him essentially. It took 1 Google search for me to find out why orcs are described as evil. So many people who complain about orcs always being evil are just lazy
though orge and orks have been serperated in most modern media with orks seeming muscluar and ripped thought smaller then orges while orges are more massive but slower and more overweight
@@wilmagregg3131 Yes. Because most modern fantasy races are completely disconnected from the original mythology which spawned them, being filtered exclusively through a faux-Tolkienian lens.
Tolkien was once asked about the origin of the Orcs and if they were redeemable. I believe he mentioned at there were really few orcs who didn't follow the mainstream orcs. Like, they were staying away from everyone, just to be alone. I read it a while ago, so a quick Google search would do.
@@HAUEhuaheau91 If I recall correctly was this about the inherent contradiction of the Orcs for Tolkien as his Religious believes required him to not being able to believe someone could be irredeemable but the theme of the story requires them to be pure Evil.
This is EFAP, its not about reaching some deeper meaning, it's about perpetuating hate! Hate for Snyder, hate for Christians, hate for the fans! EFAP and MauLer have SDS (Snyder Derangement Syndrome). EFAP, the enemy of the people. Downvote their hate! Unsubscribe!
@@mrbiggles5389 Hate for Christians ? You do realize they have regular christian guests, right ? Also : trolls gotta troll so I won’t tell you to stop spamming, but I at least hope you appreciate Mauler’s tolerance of your babblings ^^
@@mrbiggles5389 You mean the Hate Mongers of the Toxic Brood, because of course all they do is hate, never do they ever like anything nor recommend anything
@@mrbiggles5389 like I said earlier the last time we met, like a week ago, that youre the one with the syndrome as you're commenting this same comment for god knows how many times. Please for your own health, have normal hobbies.
If something is "coded" that means someone has arbitrarily decided to associate that thing with something else because they want to validate their own world view.
We need to spread awareness and show compassion with people with SDS ( Snyder Derangement Syndrome), they don't understand what they're saying when they say Snyder movies are "shit and poorly written" it's just the disease talking and obviously has now spilt over to racism. SDS find a cure!
I like how one of EC's examples of a monster being painted unfairly as evil is a slime monster with actual human bones inside it. You drew it with proof that it kills people, and it's questionable if they're "evil?"
@@AimlessSavant True. But I think here it's being used to mean "enemies you're supposed to kill." A predatory creature that eats people is basically a guaranteed creature we'd count as "evil." Evil is usually - but not always - defined as harmful to us. The slimes may not be aware, but they do things we would consider "evil."
It is weird to me that they chose LoTR's orcs as an allegory to black people. The "evil races", including orcs, are the only ones that practice slavery. You would think people who are sympathetic to the history of black people in the US would be firmly against any fantasy race that practiced slavery and would support any race that opposed slavery. There is a reason that the good guys are called "The Free People".
It also occurred to me earlier today that there's a race in D&D and Pathfinder that kind of gives Extra Credits what they want anyway: Tieflings. A race that's often stigmatized by the game world for having demonic heritage. They did nothing wrong, but they're unfairly judged based on how they look. And you can still play any class with a Tiefling. Wizard, Monk, Barbarian - Cleric and Paladin! The most purely "good" classes! You can very easily play a character with a story about overcoming racial stereotypes if you want to. So they're basically bitching over a "problem" that already has a built-in solution.
@@quietone2674 there you are, playing your medieval fantasy rpg, when suddenly, you're a tiefling. You didn't ask for this, you didn't choose this, and yet there it is.
And as the shockwave hit all Black people, the resounding cry of quivering melanin could be felt by their sovereign protectors. The Orcs are amassing, they are coming for your racist ass.😉
I literally got spoiled by this. In the PS4 Spider-Man DLC, a cop asks you to engage in sidequests for him, and because he was a white male it was obvious from the beginning that he would betray you.
HAHAHA, I love seeing trolls eat themselves. Trolls talking about Orcs is especially funny. EFAP, the channel of hate, the channel of the troll. The channel of Snyder Derangement Syndrome.
@@alexandergreene461 Your comments are paradoxical. A channel that loves spreading hate..loves spreading mental illness such as SDS. Downvote their videos and unsubscribe to show your support for love!
So... Goblin slayer addressed this very moral conundrum in the first episode. The priestess asks him if there could ever be a good goblin and at first he admits that could be possible, but he says it in such a way as to seem like it's incredibly unlikely and eventually he comes around to the understanding that in the end, the only good goblin is a dead one, which is backed up by the story, over and over, throughout the entire series.
If there is an exception - the guy who was slaying them for years is yet to see one. There is also a strong visual accompanying the monogue of a baby goblin killing someone who took pity on it.
Considering the world the Slayer lives in is ruled by a pair of gods that are more or less children I find the likelihood of there being good goblins in that world as less than 0.
No they would just refer to him as a white supremacist because he hangs out with white supremacists and has been presented with Klan robes. That alone is enough for them
@Junior Read The common EFAP acolyte is remarkably easy to trigger considering MauLer is obviously a gigantic, nay, the king of trolls. No one trolls like him, than again, no one grifts like him either. If only I could get paid for doing what I do (Gods work) spreading my message of love and hope to the forgotten man and forgotten woman. 😋
I am reminded of the game Simpsons Hit and Run in which Homer has a kick attack. And they were worried the creator of Simpsons would not like an option for Homer to kick people. Matt quickly discovered this and proceeded to kick Marge repeatedly down the road to the Kwik-E-Mart, just to see if he could
Just like how EFAP discovered they could make SDS (Snyder Derangement Syndrome) into a profitable grift by spreading mental illness to the sun deprived EFAP troll.
What's funny about the anti-bio-essentialism argument too is that the difference in fantasy races is more comparable to the differences in species than races within one species, which means that diving into theoretical biology can give you MORE justification for making Orcs so warlike. If they lived in a land with too much competition from local fauna or a barren land where competition is the only way to get food then they would grow to be bigger, brawnier and more prone to strike first.
Nah, can’t be, that’d make him at least right by technicality (technically being a god of chaos isn’t what makes the choas god evil inherently, it’s the fact that they are warped incarnations of mostly the worst traits of humanity).
@@chickentendies5215 that is true, however, how often does Tzeentch embody Hope, or Khorne Honor, etc, they may embody these positive characteristics as well, but they don't do it very often, certainly not as often as Tzeentch is a God of Change, or Khorne of Rage. Therefore it makes more sense to say that Chaos embodies the negative characteristics of Humanity because that's what they show more often than not
@@weirdo1896 i think they are almost all encompassing, with the negative traits far more predominant. Because the galaxy of warhammer is so grim so are the chaos gods, but if there was some change the chaos gods might change as well.
I swear to God, a lot of these morality takes from Extra Credits could easily just be boiled down to “This game needs to be more like Undertale.” Not every game has to break conventions, and people aren’t more likely to become evil by being exposed to stereotypes. If they blindly assume stereotypes to make up the entirety of the group (such as all Nazis being bad), then that’s their failing, or at the very least their parents’.
and undertale isnt really a example either as the monsters arnt even dubiously evil there all painted as mostly good hearted creatures while humans are painted as the real evil "monsters". there even a book in game that describes this saying monsters require positive emotions or traits to exist and it ends saying for some reason humans dont require them to exist basically saying humans are the only ones capable of being evil. which actually is a wittle wascist honestly because asgore totally murdered the shitte out the first kid that fell down after chara in pure rage which YES is a evil act.
Not to mention that if every game should be like Undertale, then Undertale has _nothing_ unique about its story, at all. And for the record, I think UT is massively over-hyped, but it’s creation came about from the idea of bucking RPG trends that have the monsters as obstacles you murder for experience points. That kind of idea can’t take root if it’s already the norm.
I've never played Undertale, but the fact that these morally bankrupt grown-ass _children_ think it's the pinnacle of depth makes me not want to pla it.
Wow, this puts my ENTIRE WORLD into perspective. Ive always seen Orcs or slime or demons that were labeled as inherently evil as Nazis. But now i see, maybe i should make the decision myself, maybe i shouldnt just pass judgement because others tell me to. Nazis are people too after all, i wouldnt want to discriminate against them just because that's the social norm now. Thank you Extra Credits, you truly are a youtube channel. For people missing the bigger picture, Extra Credits are the ones being racist here. They hear "those orcs are evil, thieving, pieces of shit that raid villages and kill people for the fun of it." And instantly think about Black People like its just a normal comparison to make, how could you, you monster. Not realizing that THEY are the ones seeing Black People as Orcs first, then get morally outraged at us for not realising it (because we aren't racist) All i can say is if thats your first instinct, then maybe you should re-evaluate how you see people before jumping upon your moral high horse like youre some kind of hero. Also, hail EFAP
Hail EFAP huh? So appropriate the channel of hate, the channel of the anti fan, the channel of anti Snyder and anti Christians are adapting a phrase used by tyrannical regimes throughout history. And no you little trolls, I'm not talking about Orange man bad. Think Caesar, think Hitler.
The precise origin of Orcs is not explained in any of Tolkien's writings. What we _do_ know though is that they were not created by the God of Middle Earth. To cut a long story short, almost all of the world and especially Elves and Men were created by God. Dwarves were created by one of his Angels, but with good intentions. But the strongest of the Angels (Melkor) became envious of God and tried to force his own will on creation. As a part of this, he _tried_ to create life-forms of his own, but it turned out he couldn't. He does not have the ability to give true life (that's linked to the secret fire Gandalf talks about in Moria btw.). So as the next best option, he began to "twist" God's creations to his own designs. For a few evil creatures this is explained explicitly (e.g. Trolls are changed Ents), but unfortunately not for the Orcs. But it is a widely accepted speculation that the Orcs are derived from Elves twisted in this way, and Peter Jackson seems to have incorporated it in the movies. So Orcs are just about evil by definition, since they are created without any connection to God, and without the equivalent of a soul. [PS: I deliberately used terms from real live religion to make the ideas easier to understand. While Tolkien has acknowledged that his stories are thoroughly influenced by his Christian faith, his cosmology is different in many aspects and he did not simply use terms from real religion. I also do not mean to endorse _any_ religion, being an Atheist myself] [PPS: Famously Tolkien didn't want his stories to be read as allegory, going so far as to write a foreword to that effect. I believe it was in the 2nd edition, i.e. the very first chance he got to react to public sentiment. That being said, there is a clear anti-industrial and even anti-modernist streak to tLotR, especially noticeable in the Ents and their fight against Saruman, and the description of the Shire when the Hobbits return. I would also say that descriptions of Sauron in ancillary material and the fate of the Shire strike clear notes against centralized control, planned economy, and related forms of tyranny. But I must admit that my personal beliefs may colour my impressions here. Also, commenting on an allegorical reading of tLotR, Tolkien dismissed it by reference to real life Britain. To paraphrase, he said _if_ the story was meant to be an allegory, then the ring couldn't possibly have been destroyed. Instead Frodo would have taken it for his own and the whole of Middle Earth would have been conquered in time by Sauron. So clearly he thought that whatever the ring could be understood to represents was _not_ overcome.] [PPPS: Tolkien actually wrote letters to Hitler and the Nazi party when they were in power, attacking their racial politics and expressly defending Jews. I don't know off the top of my head if there are writings of his regarding other races, but this gives us at least _some_ indication of his beliefs in this field. Given that he was born in Africa, we may guess that he must have had some personal experience with black Africans. So I don't find it hard to believe that he was unusually tolerant given the standards of the time.] It is thoroughly infuriating how people willfully misunderstand Tolkien or at most don't make any effort to understand his writing.
There’s no canonical explanation I’m aware as to what orcs are and where they came from. There’s hints to give credence to the theory in the Lord of the Rings that they are twisted forms of either elves, men, or both (this is probably what Peter Jackson was going off of). For example, there’s a brief exchange between Sam and Frodo after Sam rescues him from Cirith Ungol. Sam asks, “Don’t orcs eat, and don’t they drink? Or do they just live on foul air and poison?” To which Frodo replies, “No, they eat and drink, Sam. The Shadow that bred them can only mock, it cannot make: not real new things of its own. I don’t think it gave life to the orcs, it only ruined them and twisted them; and if they are to live at all, they have to live like other living creatures.” If this is true, then it suggests that while orcs are living creatures, they are not a natural life form and are “manufactured” in some way. In this sense, they are more like undead than a fully functioning species.
Interesting insight, thanks for sharing. And don't bang your head too much trying to understand why the shallow are incapable of understabding depth. You can try all you want but you're not going to fit a small size shirt over a XX large size person.
@@afkalmighty1557 You're welcome. But I didn't want to condescend with my comment. I just didn't want to go into unnecessary detail, since that would just lengthen my comment without really making things more clear. And I'll gladly admit that it wound up long enough as is ;)
In that fist frame of the Extra Credits video, that girl’s legs are almost in the shape of a swastika. Extra credits is illuminarty confirmed. Too spooky for me to continue the longman stream.
Well, that's just your opinion about the factual state of the world, and everyone is entitled to their own opinions. /s Of course, the Reapers didn't have any choice, being unable to deviate from their goal. People ascribe some sort of innocence to that lack of agency, as if though a rabid dog is somehow morally superior to a human being. The lack of free will simply removes the possibility of mercy, and peace can only be won through death and war. Whether or not they can truly be called evil doesn't matter when their acts are evil.
@@MrVeps1 Yet Sovereign and Harbinger were able to demonstrate malice. They may not have been able to deviate from their purpose but they also had personalities which did see themselves as superior to non Reapers. Another good and similar example from Magic the Gathering would be the Phyrexians a bio mechanical race that harvests any living being as raw materials to create more of their kind. I think that he just missed the mark by a mile again with another video in his weird idealism.
@@cultist1762 The entire premise of this theory is that 21st century human morality is somehow an objective standard than needs to be applied universally... so yeah, the entire theory is based on absolute horseshit, so no surprise they had to leave out a lot of obvious counter-points just so that they could hold it together for 8 minutes...
@@petriew2018 Yes get that however what I am saying the argument for the Reapers goes against his point so he just sides steps if when he discusses his point on Mass Effect, it's dishonest.
As a fellow big guy who is also relatively tall and with a love of black clothes living in Japan, I relate so hard to Mauler’s anecdote of people being afraid of me and not taking it personally
This whole thing really reminds me of the non functional racial allegory in Zootopia. When Judy does the press conference and says it may be a genetic predisposition to aggression that makes the poison effect these animals and not others and Nick gets all upset and the movie treats it like she's wrong and I'm just sitting there like, she's right, foxes are more genetically predisposed to aggression than bunny rabbits. Stop adding racial allegories into speculative fiction, 99% of the time it doesn't work. Also, stop looking for racial allegories in speculative fiction, 99% of the time there isn't one.
Yeah throwing in racial allegories without actually thinking about the setup you've created is why X-Men comes across as similarly non functional. If there was a subset of humanity who could destroy a city block or brainwash you with a thought it wouldn't be racism to fear them as much as a perfectly rational response to an overwhelming threat. Besides, anyone with sense knows that applicability is superior to allegory in storytelling.
Maybe in the case of rabbits and rabbits it's not accurate to brush all predators with that brush cause there are plenty of prey more aggressive than predators, hippos buffalo and elephants and chimpanzees all more aggressive than alot of predators.
@@SkaterBlades To be fair, herbivores of significant size are just as if not more likely to attack than predators, out of territorial and protective instincts.
*MauLer wakes up strapped to a chair with a creepy doll nearby.* "Hello, MauLer. I want to play a game. Before you is a tube television from the 1980's, linked to a Nintendo Entertainment System, and linked to that a controller running up to your hands. I trust you're familiar with Tetris?"
Make him play on the 64 with the heart monitor that makes the game speed up if you get stressed. Next we also have the entirety of extra credits and quintons channels playing in the room.
It blows my mind how that whole video went through recording, editing, animation... and not one person seemed to stop and think about how fucking terrible the whole thing came off as. Arrogance is a hell of a drug.
@@darwinspain4831 beyond their opening statement they're straight up wrong. They say you can't have hard moral questions with evil races Yes you can that's straight up wrong They compare orcs to wind, a literal non-living being like it's an actual comparison Then make the argument that people will feel sympathy for orcs in mindless killing games, when that's never been a problem before. They then make an argument that evil factions are better ignoring any complexity between that like they try to do with base evil races One of their examples for evil factions is nazi's and yet in their last video THEY specifically talked about how some german soldiers were FORCED to fight for the nazi's, yet killing them is less objectivle than killing an inherently evil race. Also I can't tell what's worse Prometheus and covenant or they're perception that Xenomorph's are inherently evil. And they take this as an objective fact, this isn't an opinion. I do think no evil races is better but it's not objectivly true. And definitely not for the same reasons.
I made my own video response to EC, and someone in my discord mentioned that you had done a response in way more detail, I had to see this. It was well worth it. XD I am not worthy! Absolutely amazing take and I greatly enjoyed this.
what's funny is that if someone were to replace the Orcs with Nazis and use the same arguments in their video. Extra credits would have a huge problem, then if someone were to point this out their brain would probably short circuit.
Guys, I’ve got it; every version of Tabletop RPG *must* include a Paladin Consultant- a big guy in armor whom the DM turns to and says, for example: “So, Frank wants to play a Necromancer. Is that okay?” And the Paladin Consultant strokes his mustache, considering, and says “No, that’s too evil. He should play a Priest, Paladin, or Monk, instead.”
Also, the thing about people like Extra Credits And their _unique_ brand of Race-tism is that they are plagued by what is known as “the soft bigotry of low expectations.” It’s when they’re talking to a black person, for example, and say something to the effect of “You know, you’re _very_ well-spoken!” As if they’re surprised by the fact that melanin levels *don’t* have any effect on a person’s ability to speak cogently... Tl;dr- If you think someone needs help purely on the basis of their gender, skin color, or sexuality, then you are regarding that person as being inferior to you by virtue of their existence. And that’s racist.
You've just basically described 75% of all media organizations/creators and 50% of everyone with a similar "behavior" as Extra Credit still going/putting out content on TH-cam... Arrrg'ably.
Trying to invent lies about Snyder films is just par for the course for EFAP. Desperate attempts to stay relevant is secondary to spreading SDS (Snyder Derangement Syndrome)
@@amanibob1416 I only tell the truth EFAP and left wing lobbyist. I speak for the forgotten man and the forgotten woman. EFAP, the enemy of the people.
@@mrbiggles5389 Self-thumb-up? Seriously... You made me laugh so hard I woke me neighborhood just now. Don't feel bad for being you, it's a "you can't win em' all" situation and I feel like a winner every time I read dem tism-flake pieces... Honest take: if you don't ever change, I'll never be sure you ain't 100% "truly that derpy", so don't you ever drop the act, please.
I'm writing my dissertation on SJWs and in it I made the argument that bioessentialism is something which, in time, every SJW would reject on moral grounds. Then EC comes along and injects bioessentialism into a nonsense video that has nothing whatsoever to do with game design. So I'm pleased as cheese to add them to my growing list of real world and well-known examples. So I suppose the next thing they'll do is attack male/female character selection but going further, rather than arguing in favor of a spectrum they'll argue for a mosaic or something with two or more dimensions. 'Cause y'know, it's not enough to be on a spectrum between two poles, you have to abolish the poles as well because LITERAL discrimination is a sin to the SJW. And it's literal discrimination which operates on categories which themselves operate on standards (otherwise understood as definitions) which ipso facto is why SJWs hate Mauler so much along with his OBJECTIVE ANALYSIS of media. He uses standards which are categorized which is an act of discrimination. So yeah, the same reason SJWs hate the inarguable concept of bioessentialism* is the same reason they predictably hate Mauler. I think it's wonderful: to have so much data and such predictable results. No spiders required! Actually come to think of it, their next hot-take will be about moral systems in RPGs with specific focus/attack on the concept of forgiveness. *(Bioessentialism is true even when applied to humans via generalization, since all categories are necessarily generalized - no exceptions - which results in the identification of everything within 1 standard deviation as fundamentally the thing in question. This is where 'exceptions prove the rule' comes from. Outliers represent 'failures' and everything else beyond outliers represent 'that which is unable to succeed'. 'Inability to succeed' is distinct and not a form of failure because being unable to succeed means you couldn't try to begin with. All failures can TRY by definition, which makes them a 'failure to be the thing in question' rather than 'NOT the thing in question AT ALL'. It's the difference between a 'broken down car' and a 'frog'. One is still a car enough if it's lost its function or form or fit. The other is a frog. But SJWs don't understand this because they apply a spectral analysis to everything. So everything is just a poor version of everything else and nothing can be said to 'fail', only 'achieve differently' (which you see best demonstrated in their conceptualization of gender). Hence their inability to criticize media objectively. Once again, they can't accept any sort of essentialism, even enough to agree on what something is or even what constitutes a 'success'. Ergo, they reject the notion of a 'true' or 'real' anything. With that, a 'good' or 'better' or 'best' version of anything is also rejected. It's 'all subjective' and they scoff at anyone who claims otherwise. Which is hilariously self-defeating but they don't recognize that.)
@@Marcara081 I did catch a typo and as a proud frog myself, I would totally advise you to replace the hamster with a frog. You could also replace it with « cheese eating surrendering monkey », but that’d be a mouthful ^^
An interesting thing about sjws is while they reject bioessentialism they seem to be avid adherents to bio-social-essentialism. For example to them white and black aren't colloquially European or African origin, they are identities, collectives of history and action. As such they project these sociological constructs as an absolute representation of people based on their traits and characteristics (you are Y because X) as opposed to bioessentialist thinking (you are X therefore Y). It's a distinction without a difference, but in their mind justifies acting like seething racists.
In case someone doesn't know about WH40k and Necrons and they are curious of the context: The Necrons used to be mindless killing machines. Their original incarnations were these killer robots entombed in planet-spanning complexes after a cataclysmic war in the distant past, and when they woke up, they would completely eliminate all sentient life in the vicinity. That was it. They were simply omnicidal. Later they were reworked and retconned into ancient Egyptian pharaos in space, with them having different kings and dynasties with their own quirky personalities; some of them would even occasionally help other races in face of a greater threat, while others would remain omnicidal. However, only the kings and the generals/priests/etc. are sentient; all of their foot soldiers and war machines are still completely mindless, and they would still happily slaughter everyone in their vicinity unless their king tells them otherwise.
Fun fact: One of the sentient Lords has gone crazy/senile and thinks he is still flesh and blood. He even pretends to eat food and takes prisoners. He once had a bunch of generals/leaders prisoner, one of which was a Space Wolf leader (can't remember if it was their chapter master or a specific captain), attend a 'dinner' with him. The Space Wolf ends up killing everyone else with his fists and the Lord lets him go because he's such a badass. The Space Wolves swear to kill him later as a result of this.
The happy slime monsters make me wanna make a game with them as the villains as they gleefully terrorize the world saying things like "The humans shall be purged!" joyfully.
The talk about "A Clockwork Orange" reminds me of a story from my school days. One of the topics of my German course was film adaptation of novels. My teacher asked the course if we had any suggestions of good novels that had been adapted and that we might cover, and some friends and I suggested "A Clockwork Orange". We all knew the movie at the time, and I had read the book as well. We didn't actually think he would take up the suggestion, but he actually did. A few lessons into the topic, at least one girl handed in a notice from her parents excusing her from having to watch any scenes of the film. But the teacher stuck to his decision, the mad lad. Great times.
2:33:00 Rags hit the nail on the head here. It isn't that everyone thinks in broad, overly simplified terms and instances, it's that THESE GUYS do. And they need to make it out like everyone does so they don't look like the outliers, like the ones we see everything differently, the ones who make this overly simplistic and way too broad, lacking in any nuance or complexity... and sometimes even CONTEXT. These people act like everyone else sees things in black and white, when THEY are the biggest offenders. They want/need things to be that simplistic to make their points at all seem valid.
Currently studying Game Development/Design and one of my teachers (he doesn't teach anymore, I think he retired tho I'm not sure) actually said to watch a bunch of EC cuz they'll teach you how to make good games/stories. He literally dedicated a lesson to showing us EC vids. No wonder this industry is in its current state...
10 years from now.... LOTR has a sequel trilogy. The humans are forced to pay reparations for the Orcs having their homeland invaded by the colonizers. Frodo gets retroactively outed as a closeted racist and Legolas gets told to do better.
The reference EC made to Mass Effect is deficient. You only encounter ONE group of batarians in the first game, in the Bring Down the Sky DLC mission. Those batarians are a group of anti-human terrorists who have taken control of an asteroid and maneuvered it onto a collision course with a human colony world. Maybe that gives the player a bad first impression of the batarian race, sure, but does anyone play through that DLC and honestly come away thinking that all batarians must be like these guys? I certainly didn't. There's even a point in the DLC where one squad of the batarians engages you in conversation, and you can appeal to the leader and convince him and his men to abandon the group. Even in the small amount of screen time they were given in ME1, there was more to them than just one-dimensional bad guys. If you can't come up with better arguements, at least choose better references EC!
I also wish to point out that in two you meet a lot of other batarians. Plenty of whom are just looking to survive or make money. That also ignores one of the running themes (yes I use the dreaded t-word. Sometimes drastic measures must be taken) that no race is a planet of hats. Sinners and Saints, and everything in between, amongst all of them. I think Wrex in particular is proof of that. He’s unimpressed with the self destructive nature of many of the Krogan’s traditions, and actively seeks to overturn their fate as a dying race. I don’t know why anyone who played Mass Effect would think the Batarians would be a pure evil race. Even the group you meet in Bring Down the Sky still show differing motives, with one pirate definitely not onboard with the asteroid plan, and even the guy who does demonstrates a twisted and self serving yet understandable line of logic to his actions. It’s worth noting that your encounters with batarians and exploration of the Hegemony’s people is minimal throughout the trilogy.
What a bizarre video this was. Everything about it was just oddly hypocritical, and weirdly close minded for a group that's trying to hide under the veil of being progressive. Anyway, another fun EFAP session! Huzzah!
"Weirdly close minded"? I'd argue it was pretty typically close minded for an apostle of The One True Way. Everything NEEDS to be political, to be racist, so that when it's convenient, even playing DnD with your friends is an act of hate and violence.
You say "oddly" and "weirdly" while I'd say "expectedly" since most videos I see from people proclaiming this thought process are just projecting their own views.
@@robinthrush9672 I think his use of “oddly” is that he goes into most videos hoping that people make points. This just disappointed him and everyone else. Woo EFAP!
I don't care whether a race is pure evil or not. Even if they are complex and fleshed out, that still won't stop me from murdering them if necessary. Just like how I still happily killed Krogan and Geth alike in Mass Effect, despite being friends with Legion, Wrex, and Grunt. To quote Hunter from Metro 2033 "If it's hostile, you kill it."
Extra credits: "Any soldiers in a ww2 game fighting for the nazis side is a full blown nazi and you can't assume they are good people being forced to fight" Also extra credits: "you shouldn't assume all of the members of this alien race who almost wiped out humanity are all evil"
@@SkaterBlades Why try and reason with the Snyder Derangement Syndrome channel that is EFAP? They don't run on logic, they run on hate. EFAP, the channel of hate.
@@mrbiggles5389 hey, man. After a month of trolling comments on unrelated videos, do you ever stop to think that maybe its time to stop? That maybe the director behind Sucker Punch isnt an infallible messenger from God? I get long term trolling but we're getting to a point of diminishing returns here.
03:20:13 As someone who has DM'd a few campaings, I can sorta relate to that unspoken rule. Had one group of players who for the life of them could not accept that the kingoms had armies at the ready. "Medival Era kingdoms did not have standing armies!" - I was told... "Yes, they did not. However this is DnD, not medival times, and if you had paid attention to the back-drop lore I gave you guys in a folder, you would know that the two kingdoms were at war." - was my response. One dude still tried to force me to change that aspect of the campaign. He simply would not accept that they could run in to a battle/skirmish between two armies. It was mostly because they hand-waved some of the lore I crafted for the campaign, but the one dude really wanted the war between the kingdoms gone for some reason.
@@dodojesus4529 Tell me about it. I mean, I provided them with backdrop lore, but the guy just did not want to accept that, at all. He had agreed to the setting of the campaign when I pitched it to them, but then he was utterly commited to get me to change it back.
@@dodojesus4529 I talked with the dude and what I got was as I previously stated that he was afraid of running in to 1 or 2 armies or potentialy being in the middle of a battlefield. I dont know why he assumed I would just dump the party in the middle of a battle and be like "righty-o boys... survive."
2:00:00 I'm kind of wishing Aydin Paladin had been on this stream. I think she would've had some things to say about the evolutionary origin of behavioral traits.
This was a really interesting for me episode thanks to an idea that was thrown out by the EFAP cast. When Extra Credits brought in real world examples of people who were evil because of their decisions, such as the KKK, Fringy was the first to bring up that many of the people in those groups were raised in environments that encouraged that mentality. This leads to the question: did they choose to be evil or were they just victims of unfortunate circumstances that made them evil? This fascinated me because that question applies greatly to one of the stories I’ve been working on. In the story, a young girl is taken in by a ruthless, totalitarian monster, hellbent on world domination, at the age of 8. For the next ten years, this evil man (who is evil because of his decisions) trains the young girl to become the ultimate killing machine, the most ruthless killer in the world. After these ten years, the girl’s brother comes in, kicks the bad guy’s ass, but is struggling with the idea of hurting his sister. This is because, in the brother’s eyes, his sister only became this ruthless, evil killer because she was raised by a psychopath. The girl escapes, becoming a fugitive running from the law, but a few questions are left up in the air for the audience: is the girl guilty of killing those people if the psycho who raised her made her that way? Should she face the same consequences as the bad guy? If she learned the truth and rejects the bad guy’s teachings, should she be forgiven, or does she still deserve punishment for those crimes? And, most importantly, is she really an evil person, or just the victim of horrific circumstances? It’s a fascinating topic, and one that I hope I’m capable of bringing to life in a satisfying way, both intellectually and emotionally. But people like Extra Credits would have you believe that if a person is part of an evil group, they are just evil and should be punished accordingly. Unless we’re talking about fantasy races, then you can’t call them evil because that’s bad worldbuilding, somehow...
Extra Credits also ignores the fact that there were Slavic soldiers like some Czechs who were forced to fight with the Nazis after having their territory taken.
It's a extremely interesting topic that certainly doesn't get the attention it deserves. The various dynamics of why someone would fight for the evil side can be very interesting to dive into. Is it money, idealogy, convenience, or like your character just circumstance. An example of mishandling of this would obviously be Finn and the Disney era Stromtroopers. Finn himself introducing that FO Stormtroopers are kidnapped as kids then sent out to fight and it's never really acknowledged again after that because SW needed their fooder.
The real villain is her brother for not killing her when he had the chance and allowing her to kill more people. At least lock her up, damn it. Seriously, random bouts of mercy are the most annoying, Hollywood-fueled trope in existence. At least you introduced a blood relationship, that makes people think that this is what human beings might do.
Indeed, there is no universal - 'objective' - framework of reason, justice, moralism, all which go into determining a people's or person's conception of what constitutes evil. There is a consensus that what the Jews were subjected to was 'evil'; however, the perpetrators saw it perfectly reasonable and moral to attempt to wipe them out.
4:45:49 Undead... Is that the hill we're dying on today? The faction frequently characterized by their reliance on extremely large amounts of mindless and selfless low-level units should have deep and complex personal stories and morals. We should absolutely not assume that these famously replaceable and expendable hordes are in any way either of those things.
Grey Warden 1: I don't know guys, maybe we shouldn't be killing the Darkspawn. Grey Warden 2: *looks at what's left of Lothering* ..... *smacks Warden 1 across the head*
In one of our VtM games back in the day one of the players used flesh magic to turn still living people into a literal blood fountain as decoration for a vampire party. Good times.
In regards to evil races being less interesting: That is correct simply by virtue of having a fixed quality, however the limit of variables is high enough that even with that fixed quality a race can nonetheless be engaging. Look at the Mordor games; all the orcs are evil, but outside of the completely insane ones all of them are different. You can still have friendships, peerage, rivalries, loyalty, and much more all while maintaining an evil morality. In regards to the collective of a race there is still room for depth. In Warhammer 40k orks are mostly streamlined due to being much more instinct based than intelligent, but the shear scope of lore and culture allows the race to be as and even more nuanced than many fallen hero/reluctant villain types of races. In regards to inalienable qualities for personality: Firstly, you seemed reluctant to give any examples of such, but the most obvious one I think is vulcans. All vulcans are logical to the extreme even if it is to slightly varying degrees. There are also plenty of real life examples of biologically evil qualities; the sadists, the sociopaths, and the psychopaths. All an evil race would need would be a large enough portion of the population being born with innately immoral qualities (usually paired with an inability, through impulsiveness and/or unintelligence, to restrain those qualities), and it would be almost inevitable that a culture would develop which would reinforce and glorify those qualities. Finally, it isn't even necessarily a bad thing to have generic evil races, since it could detract from the focus of the narrative. In the original Star Wars trilogy the stormtroopers might as well have been orcs for all the focus they were given, but it didn't matter because their dynamics outside of antagonist to the heroes were completely irrelevant. It didn't matter the race of the enemy in Lord of the Rings; what mattered was how the heroes were going to unite the lands to defeat them. It is only through limiting the moral shades of grey that the heroics of the moral white are able to shine as brightly as they do.
Going off of that last bit, it can create a lot of potential interesting stories to tell in the future. A lot of people were excited for Finn in the new Star Wars trilogy, citing his potential as one of the better things. It's a great way to twist the story, seeing the normal "bad guys" suddenly humanized, becoming the main characters. If done well, it can also make you think about all the other stories in a different ligh, and in general, really build on the universe. For a non movie example, the introduction of Legion in Mass Effect 2. Like Finn, he was a fan favorite character, and I think it's because he was a member of the previously "all evil" race of enemies from the first game. In games where you can recruit characters, the ones that start out as villains tend to be pretty popular once they join you.
Vulcans are not inalienably logical by default. The exact opposite, in fact. They highly emotional but they train their young from essentially birth to control their emotions to an extreme degree, and to only use logic. It's Nurture not Nature that they act that way, enforced by social standards where they ostracize anyone who doesn't. I heard a theory that all the Vulcans who aren't as good at it are encouraged to join Starfleet where they will be accepted more.
That idea of a charismatic, funny Dwarf is a thing they did in Dragon Age 2, Varric Tethras is a wise cracking, mountain hating bard who shaves his beard and hates being underground and doing craftwork
And unless I'm remembering wrong, Varric does at one point imply that many Dwarves are like that because of the culture of Orzammar, and having to live underground. Dwarves who go "topside" (usually either merchants or exiles) seem to shed some of that. Varric is so different partly because he was born and raised above-ground.
I would like to say that Coding is actually a useful term that’s different from an Allegory. It’s used...weirdly in this video but the concept is basically adding characteristics of a certain group of people onto a non human entity. Like if you had a purple alien dude with Dreadlocks that spoke in Ebonics/aave, they would be coded “black”. Can be used to make an allegory, like with the orcs from Bright, but a lot of times it’s just a design choice/preference
The issue is that some people love to decode stuff even if there is nothing. Say, realizing that the jellyfish speaking ebonics or the criminal boss shark with an italian accent in Shark Tale are supposed to be representatives of human groups is not a stretch at all when it was clearly intentional, and if you replaced all the characters with equivalent human actors in a prohibition-era Chicago setting, you could tell 90% of it without tweaking the script. However, how do you decode the Borg? Or the Tyranids? Or in this case, Orcs? Especially when the classic Tolkien orcs were anything but coded black, as I don't think there was a single black civilization in history that lived underground, literally couldn't bear being exposed to sunlight, and were the most industrious and technologically advanced of their era.
@@jd2792 Even then, you usually cannot win. For example, I still remember an old Cracked article that argued that the Orcs in Oblivion were racist because their faces were flat (which was true, but so was every other face; that game's random generated faces were atrocious) and they were using an Asian-style armor, meaning they were obviously a caricature of Mongolians and Chinese. Then they argued that they had an intelligence demerit as a racial trait, meaning the game was saying Mongolians and Chinese were stupid. Yes, this was actually a thing. I also remember someone pointing out in the comments that the Nords, the whitest white guys in the setting, also had the same intelligence demerit, but apparently that doesn't count. That's why it really doesn't matter even if you try to "code" a character or a race in an unusual way, if someone wants to latch onto it, they can spin it into being racist anyway. The only winning move is to not play the game.
Whether you liked EC early on or not. EC seriously dropped in quality when Dan floyd was ousted from his own channel. Dan was still pretty left, but I never got the feeling that his politics overrode his personality.
After the DCEU, the next EFAP needs to be Bright, a Netflix movie starring Will Smith in a modern fantasy where orcs are literally black people and elves are literally rich white people. When did the "orcs are racist" argument start because Bright came out in 2017 and I wonder that despite no one remembering this movie, it may have had some bad influence on these culture warriors. It's like EC saw this movie and now thinks stuff like Warcraft, Elder Scrolls, LOTR, and D&D have been doing the exact same thing all along to brainwash people unfamiliar with these domains.
but that's one of the many reasons Bright is so terrible. They want you to think of Orcs as black people, but there are also black people and they hate the orcs too. It just completely falls apart as an allegory.
I dunno, they tell you in the movie that the Orcs were originally evil and fought with the dark lord to end humanity. Then when the Dark Lord was defeated the Orcs tried to change their ways and go into society. Makes sense to me that the Orcs would be distrusted by society and therefore be a mistrusted minority from the “light” races. That being said, if it’s a knee jerk reaction I can see how people would make the judgement that Orcs are black people. As dumb as it is, being a fantasy and not reality.
The equivocation of orcs and black people was a thing before Bright. Bright was just leaning heavily into that rather than having even the least bit of creativity on their own. The archetypal orc is mostly based on Dungeons and Dragons in which they generally live in tribal hunter-gatherer societies with a culture that glorifies violence and doesn't value academics. Certain people see that and immediately think "black people". In most settings I see that conclusion as tenuous at best. Other than Bright the only setting I can think of where it's at all valid is Warcraft (starting from Warcraft III), but of course those orcs aren't an evil race so that doesn't support Extra Credits' case.
@@VitalVampyr Warcraft orcs take more from a mix of germanic and native american elements then and black ones so really blights the only one thats leaned into it.
>Have you finished the conquest? Not yet, Fringsaad. >Then why have you summoned me? I bring news. Before mighty Longseid came to the throne, he searched the interwebs for the ultimate weapon, the Anti-Tism equation. The key to controlling all opinions and all critique throughout the world. He found it in the fan base of a beloved series, but before he coul- >The story of the defiance is well known. I have found the beloved series! The one that fought back! It is ATLA! The Anti-Tism equation is carved into the surface of this very series! ...Are you certain? I have seen it. I have looked with my own eyes...on Anti-Tism... >Dominae... wumbonius... objectivae... crusadae... (Fringsaad disappears from view, before chat members gather around, falling to one knee, just as the image of the imposing Longseid takes form) My lord... >>hrmm...steppensivi My Lord, I am but your humble servant! >>Can it be true that you have found it? I have, Long One. The lost series is ATLA. Anti-Tism is here. >>If it is ascension you seek, find the final video for our coverage, synchronize the criticisms, and when the show is scorched, I will come for my great prize! You will come to ATLA? >>I have turned 100,000 opinions to dust looking for Anti-Tism, looking for those who robbed me of my glory! I will stride across their feelings and bask in glow of Anti-Tism, and all of criticism shall be mine! It shall be so, my master...
3:26:09 - A problem Extra Credit has here is that is assumes "befriend the slime monster" is a "good choice" rather than a "stupid choice". It's not like in other games that have a Karma System or otherwise makes moral decisions on your actions, because if that were the case, the developer has stated "these guys are evil, so killing them will be a good option". A player saying "I'll decide if these guys are good are evil" is just kind of crazy thinking they know better than the developer or GM of a setting as to the nature of what they're interacting with. It's not like in the real world you get to decide if the shifty guy in the dark alley is good or not. The guy will let you know should you approach him. It's like Extra Credits want the players to have the ability to make choices, but be free of the negative consequences of said choices.
"Evil races" have nothing to do with game design. That is all subjective and speculative. "Game Design" is the underlaying mechanics that enable the player to engage with the medium and work towards the ultimate goal or high score: gameplay loop. "Race" and "Evil" are narrative constructs that make up the story that a narrative-driven game is trying to tell.
It can have to do with game design as it relates to mechanic/narrative alignment (only applies to games with a narrative - something like Tetris is obviously exempt). In general, games that can make the gameplay mechanics work in tandem with the game's narrative tend to be better games (Undertale is a fantastic example of this). So, if you want to make a game where you just go on a massive killing spree, it helps if the enemies are demons, like in the case of Doom. If you have a game that's about moral ambiguity or redemption in some way, then it helps if your mechanics let you have non-violent or non-lethal solutions (Metal Gear series, Dishonored series). So, enemy design in terms of "evil races" can apply, but not in the way Extra Credits talk about. They're a bunch of idiots.
This is the thing that really annoyed me, alignment in modern day D&D is just flavor. It’s completely up to the DMs discretion, and ultimately unless you have a very RAW DM, not all orcs are going to be evil. This just makes it clear to me that people making this an issue have no real clue how D&D is played, or are legitimately virtue signaling.
Yea it sounds like they tried to pull the parallel universe time travel idea but they wanted to write Cap out so they fucked the idea that he wouldn’t be able to show up old if they kept to the parallel timeline idea.
It also shows that Cap could have saved Bucky, he could have Saved Tony's parents, and he could have atleast tried to stop Thanos from snapping, yet he didn't. He just goes back in time, and let's everything play out. No attempts to make things better. Literally just abandons everyone to live his life with Peggy.
an interesting problem with Marvel's time travel that people seem to be missing is the only thing that seemed to cause a paradox was messing with the infinity stones themselves. Like, if you actually pay close attention, apparently it's only even the Time stone that seems to be an issue there... anything else seems to be fair game. So yeah, the MCU world building is not officially a dumpster fire.
@@petriew2018 uhm.. the mind stone.. Age of Ultron won't happen as it happed. Plus, the tessaract is gone, which Fringy rightfully said.. this is gonna change the future.
Warhammer 40k: the origin of the term “grimdark” in which every faction is horrifically evil or horrible in at least one way - and probably more. Extra credits: wHy Is ThE gOoD FaCtIoN cOmMiTtInG xEnOcIdE?
@@petriew2018 Technically the Imperium doesn’t want to destroy everything either, and neither do the eldars, Dark eldars and tau, I don’t think « wanting galactic domination instead of galactic destruction » is enough to warrant being called « the good guys » XD
Them holding up Mass Effect as the gold standard for their argument isn't just an insult to the game by association, they're also completely wrong. Every race in that trilogy has temperaments and stereotypes that you can rely on to be present pretty consistently. Exceptions to the rule are just that. I also find it hilarious that he mentions Batarians specifically, considering the only one you meet who doesn't have a murderous hatred for humans works for the most prolific crime boss in the Terminus systems.
Also isnt the reason why most barbarians you encounter are assholes is cuz they are all criminals/convicts that were pushed out/exiled from batarian space because it's a closed system?
Like I said in the chat. Just because I made friends with Legion, that doesn't mean that I didn't murder hundreds of Geth, especially when said Geth were attacking me. Same with the Krogan. And to be fair to the Batarians, the ones on the Citadel in ME3 didn't have any murderous hatred for humans once they got to know them. We also have to keep in mind that they are brainwashed by the government to believe that humans are evil because of the Skyllian Blitz conflict.
In the The Forgotten Realms setting, wich most campaigns are set in D&D: Orcs were created by Gruumsh, the one eyed chaotic evil god of war and storms. Still in the 10th reprint of the Player's Handbook for 5th edition D&D, it is suggested that even Half-Orcs can't fully escape Gruumsh's influence!
Pitbulls are a tricky breed. From all the ones that I've encountered there's probably an equal ratio of nasty potential biters to the sweetest, most chill doggos you'll ever see. And it's all down to what anyone will tell ya - the owner. Each time the chill pitbull had a chill owner, and the aggressive ones had owners that were either kinda assholes, or so scared of what the dog might do that they projected it onto the dog and made the dog anxious about everything and constantly on edge.
Here's the thing... an aggressive chihuahua is far less dangerous than an aggressive pitbull. Your Bengal tiger could be the chillest, sweetest boy in the world... he's still a seven foot long, eight-hundred pound apex hunter with claws that can gut grown man like a fish and jaws that can rip his head from his body before he can scream.
On Mendez Hodes’ “reminding people of oppression” point: Why is this question never brought up with regards to people who have had violent experiences in general that can they can be reminded of by similar situations in media? Is that too broad and not able to be used to label people as -ists?
On the WH40k parts, the thing is, everything good indeed already happened in that setting, at least as far as humanity is concerned. Humans had their sprawling space empire that was a star-trek-esque wonderland, and their technology was on par with the freaking Necrons. Then an AI rebellion happened (probably orchestrated by Chaos, or possibly a C'tan), then psykers happened (also orchestrated by Chaos) and then when the Emprah rose and tried to pick up the pieces, he was killed in a rebellion (also also orchestrated by Chaos). In other words, the current WH40k setting is a post-post-post apocalyptic hellhole on a galactic scale, where everyone hates everyone, half of the races are straight up evil (dark eldar torture and kill for fun and to protect their own souls from being munched on by a chaos god, orks are literally incapable of anything other than war as they were genetically programmed shock-troopers who reproduce by dying in combat, tyranids are a swarm of space-locust that is only concerned with eating all the biomass in existence, the necrons are either mindless omnicidal maniacs, or mindless automatons led by quirky omnicidal maniacs, and the forces of chaos are just twenty pounds of insane in a five pound bag) while the rest are "reasonably" xenophobic (the empire hates everyone else because they have a hard time keeping things together even without trying to accommodate the reasonable aliens, the eldar are a declining race of survivors who manipulate others into proxy-wars because they lack the numbers to fight them, and the tau are eugenics-loving brainwashed space communists who view everyone else as certifiably mad, and they aren't necessarily mistaken). In short, it is a setting where all the good things have indeed already happened, and we are only watching the ruins of once great civilizations slowly falling apart. Not exactly a setting designed for moralizing.
The whole setting is just an excuse for wargaming, so wisely the game designers knew you can't actually have a 'good guy' because then that forces the players to behave one way or another depending on their faction, which just limits them. So every race is pretty much an asshole on some level. Even the Tau, who are less overtly militaristic, are painted as a mix of tyrannical and painfully naive as they're woefully unprepared for the galaxy at large which makes it a great example of how evil races can, in fact, be entirely justified by your setting because it's not 21st century america so it doesn't HAVE to conform to current human morality. Orks are literally a fungus, after all, so trying to humanize them makes no sense for the story your telling.
@@vlad4o813 The funny thing is, you can't even do that. Chaos is the product of the Warp, which is the manifestation of the collective unconscious of every sentient being that ever lived in the galaxy. Some fluff says that the Necrons theoretically have the technology to separate the material world from the Warp, but doing so would either kill every native organic being in the galaxy, or at the very least completely lobotomize them. So yeah, you can't even fuck Chaos in this setting (unless you are a Slaaneshi cultist and do it literally, but that's beside the point).
In relation to the point about Hydra, there's a character called Hydra Bob who just a regular dude who joined Hydra because him wife was bugging him to get a job and Hydra has good employee benefits. He's usually portraited as being not very evil and he even sometimes teams up with Deadpool (usually against his will) his a pretty interesting example of a member of Hydra not being evil
I can just imagine the EC team on their soap box podium next to the commisar saying this shit and this one guardsman just pauses mid charge, and slowly turns around with the most pissed off face imaginable
3:02:38 Person in chat: "Extra Credits seem like post-modernists in uni, basically pushing the idea that evil is subjective." Theo: "Please do not use the word post-modernist, you don't know what it means." This triggered me. Such a snotty, arrogant, pretentious response. There's no way that Theo could determine anything about how much the person knows based on that short statement, and there was nothing about it that contradicted the concept. Post-modernism is not all that esoteric or difficult to understand, and its break down of categories absolutely could apply to Extra Credit's cretinous video.
*In defense of Endgame:* Cap was already out of character in the beginning of the movie, where he is shown to be only going through the motions and not caring to be a hero at all. So him staying in the past and not taking actions during horrific tragedies is consistent with that.
I saw this video pop up 3 hours ago and thought it would be great for you guys to EFAP it up. And now here you are. Guess the Spiders have been whispering in my ear.
Don't know the Lord of the Rings orc thing is in question. In the movie Sarumon literally has a monologue that describes exactly how they are made and why they are evil. Not only are orcs not a creature that can occur naturally, the process that creates them instills a hunger for violence, war, and power. They don't feel things like love or have empathy.
This attitude by EC really shows why most modern portrayals of villains try to force sympathy out of the audience, despite not deserving it. Alice from Batwoman, Abby from TLOU2, numerous villains from SU who act 'sorry' after the fact, while also being completely unaware of the immorality of their respective heroes, like Wonder Woman in WW84, Captain Marvel and Wanda in Wandavision. Like what happened to the idea of a unambiguous villain archetype, who don't need some kind of rough upbringing to justify their actions? Or just a villain who has a justification but doesn't try to plead for sympathy in doing their heinous deeds? Funnily enough, ECs last controversial video would fly in the face of this one; They want you not to play a evil faction because they have blanket stated all nazis as bad, yet simultaneously doesn't want you to consider a fictional race as evil as it being a generalization? I'm not convinced for a second EC have been consistent on any point given how long they've been at this, which almost seems deliberate given they keep creeping up.
Yeah you have a point ...... even as a su fan i can understand why Thats why i wanna write villains like that again. And/or find okd mefia that did the old way.... or just watch anime
Remember, you’ve got to make sure that your players don’t make snap judgements about the enemy fictional races! But people in real life who are wearing certain uniforms? Yeah, make all the snap absolute judgments about them you want, cuz it’s probably right!
I liked how Two Worlds approached the orc race. They're not good but they're wiped nearly to extinction and they are some of the last few opposing the big bad so you kinda are forced to work alongside them. Love it.
02:11:52 By this point, you guys have been going over and over the generalities thing. Keep in mind that a key feature of the cultural left's ideology is that ANY generality is cultural, and is the basis of them claiming that any inequity is based on said prejudices. Pointing out any statistic that doesn't perfect equal a proportionality can be blamed on the "people in power" by their world view. The pit bull statistic Rags mentioned earlier would be blamed entirely on horrible owners abusing these poor poor animals. This goes into all arguments about gender and pronouns and races. Any statement of generality is proof to them that the system reinforces it and must be fought. Equal outcomes are what they view as an end goal, not equal opportunity. Doesn't matter if Dwarves being naturally more sturdy and resistant to poisons would yield a culture where they would take advantage of that trait. By saying they would take advantage of that trait, you've made a generality, and that is evidence of a toxic way of thinking to them. They are the enemy of logic.
Timestamps:
0:00 - Endgame's Timetravel Problems
12:02 - Guest Intro /Snyder Cut Reactions
- Anti-Life /Joker 'Redeemed' /Martian 'Martha' Manhunter
34:14 - Filmento's Latest (Godzilla vs Kong)
40:00 - Intro to Today's Video (What is Evil)
50:13 - >Memes: Anti-Lasagna Equation /Hidden signs
- Extra Credits History
57:21 - Video Starts /Orks are Racist? Limiting Games/Stories
- 'Calling out Fascist Behavior'
1:17:08 - Orks in LoTR [minor audio flism]
1:30:32 - Guest Writer's Video, Seeing Race in Fiction
1:40:06 - (Vid. Cont.) 'Ugly, Warlike, & Malevolent' Race Moral Alignment
1:54:51 - Differentiating Species by Inalienable Qualities
- Painting with the 'Evil Brush' /Bioessentialism
2:20:16 - Race Stereotypes & Tropes
2:31:34 - 'Broad Generalizations are Comforting'
- >'The Scary Longman' Story
2:47:20 - Making 'Moral' Gaming Choices
2:53:07 - 'Making Evil Races Takes Choice from the Players'
3:02:36 - Post-Modernists & Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi
- 'Are they Really Evil?' *Evil Wind*
3:25:59 - *Player does stupid* 'Moral Choices Don't Matter'
3:41:54 - 40K Example
3:48:01 - 'As soon as someone feels empathy'
- 'Born this way', labels
4:04:16 - RL 'Visual Signifiers of Evil'
4:18:17 - Evil 'Choice' v 'Traits'
4:27:05 - Diverse Evil Team
- Mass Effect Example
4:40:25 - 'Following your creative instincts', but only these ones
4:50:12 - Friends with Chutulu /Video Ends
4:52:57 - End thoughts
4:55:45 - >Weekend Warrior Leaves
5:02:16 - Superchats Start
Thanks again.
Headmat your a efap national treasure thank you
Thank you for your service.
Been missing these
A big thanks. Now we bash on Extra Credits for being a Extra Load of Bullshit.
Evil: Exists
Extra Credits: _"BIacks."_
Downvote EFAP and unsubscribe if you oppose racism.
@MR Biggles ok seriously?!? Extra credits the racist one if anything. He compared real races to evil ones. His the idiot racist
@@mrbiggles5389 EFAP are the ones disputing racism in the video they are criticizing, you numpty.
This is what happens when you don’t watch the video and just assume based on the fact that they dislike a movie for which you clearly have a nigh religious affinity.
@@zjb2202 It’s quite engrained into his persona to defend the Snyderverse. It’s honestly fine to like them. I love BvS because of very surface level superficial reasons but I love to critique them and rip me to shreds regardless. It’s cathartic for me to know that I’m able to acknowledge flaws and still enjoy a movie. Because both are valuable. But I understand that the critique is more valuable to the art of film. I’d assume you have the same philosophy behind this as well. That’s what I appreciate about EFAP so much.
@@fluff6811 I’m basically in the same position. I liked BvS because those characters are my childhood and Batfleck was pretty badass. I also recognize that the story is an absolute mess and, even at the time, the fact that they pulled the Death of Superman in the second movie completely soured me in the theater.
EFAP has definitely helped me express my opinions about art with a bit more substance. Now I’m more inclined to try to understand why I think a thing is a good or bad movie objectively, and separately whether I like it or not subjectively.
As a jew I can tell you that I find it extremely condescending when people ask me if I'm offended by the depiction of goblins in Harry Potter or something like that. If you see an Orc doing something bad and your first thought is "wow this is clearly supposed to be an allegory to a black person" the problem is YOU and not the media you're consuming
People have actually asked you that? Lmao. That's so fucking weird
Totally agree, really makes you think what peoples opinions on black people if you think orcs are like them
It's the opposite end of what can be labeled racism. That is, in the attempt to avoid being racist, racism is implied.
B U t w H a T d O Y o u T H I n k A b O U t w A t T O ?
Oy vey.
+1 byczku.
“When I see orcs I think black people”- Extra credits
"When I see black people... I think "why not Ewoks?" Then again, I fawkin'hate Trump."
Qu1nton R33view
When think of Extra Credits. I think of "You Know what's Bullshit?"
FOR NOUGH REASUN!
of course most people calling others racists are themselves racists... just like extra credits in this video
Should you be surprised that the symbol of hate (EFAP) has hateful views on minorities? Remember minorities are often religious and God fearing. EFAP, the enemy of God and the enemy of the people.
If a creator says “this species is evil and goes around murdering and plundering for fun” and someone looks at that and says “that reminds me of black people”, the problem is not with the creator
"We need to humanise these non-human creatures, also this group of humans is just evil with no redeeming qualities because they have at least one bad opinion"
Its so funny but also worrying that extra credits thinks fantasy creatures can't be evil just cause but real humans can
@@mediocrestreams3284 You'd think they'd know bad game design is taking your players down a worthless tangent who's only purpose is to make you feel bad about killing things who only exist to make your life more difficult... that's called breaking immersion and it's basically bad storytelling 101....
They're not 21st century humans, they don't have to follow 21st century human morality, which is an artificial construct anyway and constantly changing. They just need to make sense within their fantasy world. Nobody playing the game actually gives a fly fuck why that orc is the way he is, only outside observers with their own hang ups... like an obviously mixed race youtuber projecting his identity crisis onto... orcs...
@@petriew2018 BAHAHAHA the amount of mental gymnastics the anti fan has to go through to make what is inevitably going to be a bad, nonsensical point is hilarious and is a feature of Snyder Derangement Syndrome, not a flaw; its comedy that writes itself. It's like watching feminist try and debate Jordan Peterson. It's hard to hate the toxic feminist when they are so unintentionally funny.
@@petriew2018 *" that's called breaking immersion and it's basically bad storytelling 101"* bahahahaha please do tell me more! Before you do though do you mind telling the audience what credentials or movie industry experience, writing or other skill relating to filmmaking you claim to have to make such assertions of good or bad storytelling. What films have you worked on? Do you like movies or is your mission as an EFAP troll to purposely misrepresent them and lecture the rest of us about what is 101 in filmmaking? Please, list your top 10 movies over the last 2-3 years, and tell me why they meet your standards of excellence. Should be funny.
@@mrbiggles5389 I have a brain and can actually read, making me considerably more of an authority than a 12 year old internet troll, so your presence is not required here... or anywhere, really...
It's probably not a good idea for Extra credits to incite violence on people you identify as nazis when one of the most infamous parts of their last controversial video was them not knowing what nazis looked like.
Again, these clowns said that Josstice League was better. Credibility zero. So nothing they say should make any difference as its all nonsensical , just lies and derangement. EFAP the channel of SDS (Snyder Derangement Syndrome) EFAP, the channel of hate.
@@mrbiggles5389 Damn I should've taken my fishing rod, didn't knew there's gonna be so much bait in here.
@@goldenmairon2371 I think your mistaking which of us here is the prey my little EFAP troll 😋
@@mrbiggles5389 Do you have like severe schizophrenia or something? You've replied to damn near every top comment with almost the same unrelated spiel about them being "wrong" about Zach Snyder's ego project. If you actually think these things seek help, god knows where you'll end up if you don't.
@@The1337guy1 yeah he's just trying to get a reaction out of people. Probably doesn't even believe half the stuff he pastes
I like how his main example of how a group can be evil is "They are racists, and not accepting of other races!" and then *immediately* goes on to promote diverse evil hiring practices.
Weird how "not being accepting" is somehow worse than rape and murder. Oh well.
On that same point, I don't think EC can talk about acceptance and not portraying a fictional faction as evil outright when these are the folks that go, "All gamers are N*zis", "all women are victims/children", "all men are perverts/sexist/misogynist".
Also, Orcs are bad because it portrays an entire fictional faction as evil. We literally call people trolls online for saying things we don't like/things critical of us. Calling them Trolls should be racist then, right? Because its literally a term used for convenience, and you can then dismiss them without much credit. Like calling people "n*zis, fascists" etc., etc.
@@BrennanCh06 He didn´t say that, he just used a VERY BAD example.
I hate to be pedantic, but those two technically don´t contradict each other. They´re still bullcrap anyway, but they don´t contradict each other.
@@hildegunstvonmythenmetz6095 hiring diverse races for your racial supremacy group seems pretty contradictory to me.
I was playing checkers the other day when suddenly I saw a move that would take out all the red pieces in the board, winning me the game. But before I could act on it I was struck by a realization.
They didn't choose this, they didn't ask for this.
And yet... 𝙩𝙝𝙚𝙧𝙚 𝙞𝙩 𝙬𝙖𝙨
"maybe those red pieces were pacifists, or had families"
Just so there is no mistaking this channels zero credibility I want to remind everyone that Mauler and pals thinks Joss Whedon's Justice League was the superior version
@@mrbiggles5389 ...and?
@@suijin1234567890 ...and? Why consume lies willingly? Unsubscribe from this troll channel, downvote!
Here's the history of the word "orc", it explains why orcs are evil.
"late 16th century (denoting an ogre): perhaps from Latin orcus ‘hell’ or Italian orco ‘demon, monster’, influenced by obsolete orc ‘ferocious sea creature’ and by Old English orcneas ‘monsters’. The current sense is due to the use of the word in Tolkien's fantasy adventures."
So Tolkien was calling his evil species with no redeeming qualities demons, and modern writers and game developers are copying him essentially. It took 1 Google search for me to find out why orcs are described as evil. So many people who complain about orcs always being evil are just lazy
Yrah they do
Or cant just accept fuckin fiction
though orge and orks have been serperated in most modern media with orks seeming muscluar and ripped thought smaller then orges while orges are more massive but slower and more overweight
@@wilmagregg3131 Yes. Because most modern fantasy races are completely disconnected from the original mythology which spawned them, being filtered exclusively through a faux-Tolkienian lens.
Tolkien was once asked about the origin of the Orcs and if they were redeemable. I believe he mentioned at there were really few orcs who didn't follow the mainstream orcs. Like, they were staying away from everyone, just to be alone. I read it a while ago, so a quick Google search would do.
@@HAUEhuaheau91 If I recall correctly was this about the inherent contradiction of the Orcs for Tolkien as his Religious believes required him to not being able to believe someone could be irredeemable but the theme of the story requires them to be pure Evil.
That line from Anakin Skywalker, "From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!" is a deeper understanding of morality than Extra Credits' video. Wow.
Very true. Also you make dope videos!
This is EFAP, its not about reaching some deeper meaning, it's about perpetuating hate! Hate for Snyder, hate for Christians, hate for the fans! EFAP and MauLer have SDS (Snyder Derangement Syndrome). EFAP, the enemy of the people. Downvote their hate! Unsubscribe!
@@mrbiggles5389 Hate for Christians ? You do realize they have regular christian guests, right ?
Also : trolls gotta troll so I won’t tell you to stop spamming, but I at least hope you appreciate Mauler’s tolerance of your babblings ^^
@@mrbiggles5389 You mean the Hate Mongers of the Toxic Brood, because of course all they do is hate, never do they ever like anything nor recommend anything
@@mrbiggles5389 like I said earlier the last time we met, like a week ago, that youre the one with the syndrome as you're commenting this same comment for god knows how many times. Please for your own health, have normal hobbies.
If something is "coded" that means someone has arbitrarily decided to associate that thing with something else because they want to validate their own world view.
It's apparently bad game design for Mario to jump on evil turtles.
Holy... did not expect to see you here
Ermm actually, not all Koopas are evil, there are many friendly Koopa characters.
"orcs are black people"
Redguards: *sweats nervously*
Considering they teamed up with the Bretons to shack Orsinium twice, they should feel awkward.
Also Redguards: Blow up Yokuda by splitting an atom with a sword.
@@lefteron6804 Then they teamed up with the orcs to battle other alliances of races.
Elder scrolls online: Race wars
@@SkaterBlades You mean the three banner war. Also known as the endless stalemate.
We need to spread awareness and show compassion with people with SDS ( Snyder Derangement Syndrome), they don't understand what they're saying when they say Snyder movies are "shit and poorly written" it's just the disease talking and obviously has now spilt over to racism. SDS find a cure!
I like how one of EC's examples of a monster being painted unfairly as evil is a slime monster with actual human bones inside it. You drew it with proof that it kills people, and it's questionable if they're "evil?"
Eh. Evil requires intention. Natural, generally unthinking creatures have no concept of morality.
@@AimlessSavant True. But I think here it's being used to mean "enemies you're supposed to kill." A predatory creature that eats people is basically a guaranteed creature we'd count as "evil." Evil is usually - but not always - defined as harmful to us. The slimes may not be aware, but they do things we would consider "evil."
It is weird to me that they chose LoTR's orcs as an allegory to black people. The "evil races", including orcs, are the only ones that practice slavery. You would think people who are sympathetic to the history of black people in the US would be firmly against any fantasy race that practiced slavery and would support any race that opposed slavery. There is a reason that the good guys are called "The Free People".
It also occurred to me earlier today that there's a race in D&D and Pathfinder that kind of gives Extra Credits what they want anyway: Tieflings. A race that's often stigmatized by the game world for having demonic heritage. They did nothing wrong, but they're unfairly judged based on how they look. And you can still play any class with a Tiefling. Wizard, Monk, Barbarian - Cleric and Paladin! The most purely "good" classes! You can very easily play a character with a story about overcoming racial stereotypes if you want to. So they're basically bitching over a "problem" that already has a built-in solution.
@@quietone2674 there you are, playing your medieval fantasy rpg, when suddenly, you're a tiefling. You didn't ask for this, you didn't choose this, and yet there it is.
The moment Superman dies, he yells out the N-word. The shockwave created by the power of the N-word was enough to awaken the Mother boxes 😆
My god
Ms. Obama did not survive.
And as the shockwave hit all Black people, the resounding cry of quivering melanin could be felt by their sovereign protectors. The Orcs are amassing, they are coming for your racist ass.😉
@@fluff6811 WAAAAAAAAAGH
@@sgt.viktorreznov3rdshockar238 "...AAAAAGH, are we the baddies?"
2:25:18
MauLer: "We can predict stories by looking at the race of characters"
God why have we gotten to this point
I literally got spoiled by this. In the PS4 Spider-Man DLC, a cop asks you to engage in sidequests for him, and because he was a white male it was obvious from the beginning that he would betray you.
HAHAHA, I love seeing trolls eat themselves. Trolls talking about Orcs is especially funny. EFAP, the channel of hate, the channel of the troll. The channel of Snyder Derangement Syndrome.
@@alexandergreene461 Your comments are paradoxical. A channel that loves spreading hate..loves spreading mental illness such as SDS. Downvote their videos and unsubscribe to show your support for love!
@MR Wiggles your comments are gonna disappear arent they
@@dimitriwarchief301 Of course. EFAP is pro censorship and have already deleted half my posts
So... Goblin slayer addressed this very moral conundrum in the first episode. The priestess asks him if there could ever be a good goblin and at first he admits that could be possible, but he says it in such a way as to seem like it's incredibly unlikely and eventually he comes around to the understanding that in the end, the only good goblin is a dead one, which is backed up by the story, over and over, throughout the entire series.
If there is an exception - the guy who was slaying them for years is yet to see one.
There is also a strong visual accompanying the monogue of a baby goblin killing someone who took pity on it.
Considering the world the Slayer lives in is ruled by a pair of gods that are more or less children I find the likelihood of there being good goblins in that world as less than 0.
Well Goblins in Goblin Slayer are a allegory to a certain race of people in the real world.
@@johnboe3073 LOL- I hope you meant that ironically.
@@johnboe3073 Yeah, the Italians.
The people at Extra Credits would have a seizure talking to Darryl Davis.
No they would just refer to him as a white supremacist because he hangs out with white supremacists and has been presented with Klan robes. That alone is enough for them
@Junior Read It never stops being funny for me personally 🤭
@Junior Read The common EFAP acolyte is remarkably easy to trigger considering MauLer is obviously a gigantic, nay, the king of trolls. No one trolls like him, than again, no one grifts like him either. If only I could get paid for doing what I do (Gods work) spreading my message of love and hope to the forgotten man and forgotten woman. 😋
@@mrbiggles5389 begone little clown boy!
@@mtnambmtnamb8092 Biggles will never go away. He will always be waiting, watching, ready to pounce on anti Snyder cultist!
I am reminded of the game Simpsons Hit and Run in which Homer has a kick attack. And they were worried the creator of Simpsons would not like an option for Homer to kick people. Matt quickly discovered this and proceeded to kick Marge repeatedly down the road to the Kwik-E-Mart, just to see if he could
That's dedication; Kwik-E Mart is uphill from the Simpson house in that game
Just like how EFAP discovered they could make SDS (Snyder Derangement Syndrome) into a profitable grift by spreading mental illness to the sun deprived EFAP troll.
@@mrbiggles5389 pretty sure the troll is you.
Is that Rags in your icon picture?
@@sparkypack well I don't see a pile of shit anywhere so probably not Rags
What's funny about the anti-bio-essentialism argument too is that the difference in fantasy races is more comparable to the differences in species than races within one species, which means that diving into theoretical biology can give you MORE justification for making Orcs so warlike. If they lived in a land with too much competition from local fauna or a barren land where competition is the only way to get food then they would grow to be bigger, brawnier and more prone to strike first.
Finally, someone said it!
"The Imperium of Man are not the good guys" - Brothers, I sense heresy.
*points to Extra Credits*
That's him, Inquisitor. That's the heretic.
Annihilate the detractor! Inflict the most painful treatment our minds can concoct!
*Loyalist noises*
*Exterminatus intesifies*
BURN THE HERETIC! SUFFER NOT THE XENOS TO LIVE!
“Just because they are the gods of chaos; doesn’t mean that they are inherently evil”
Extra Credits probably
Play Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn.
Nah, can’t be, that’d make him at least right by technicality (technically being a god of chaos isn’t what makes the choas god evil inherently, it’s the fact that they are warped incarnations of mostly the worst traits of humanity).
@@nathanjora7627 They are also incarnations of good traits of humanity.
@@chickentendies5215 that is true, however, how often does Tzeentch embody Hope, or Khorne Honor, etc, they may embody these positive characteristics as well, but they don't do it very often, certainly not as often as Tzeentch is a God of Change, or Khorne of Rage. Therefore it makes more sense to say that Chaos embodies the negative characteristics of Humanity because that's what they show more often than not
@@weirdo1896 i think they are almost all encompassing, with the negative traits far more predominant. Because the galaxy of warhammer is so grim so are the chaos gods, but if there was some change the chaos gods might change as well.
I swear to God, a lot of these morality takes from Extra Credits could easily just be boiled down to “This game needs to be more like Undertale.” Not every game has to break conventions, and people aren’t more likely to become evil by being exposed to stereotypes. If they blindly assume stereotypes to make up the entirety of the group (such as all Nazis being bad), then that’s their failing, or at the very least their parents’.
and undertale isnt really a example either as the monsters arnt even dubiously evil there all painted as mostly good hearted creatures while humans are painted as the real evil "monsters".
there even a book in game that describes this saying monsters require positive emotions or traits to exist and it ends saying for some reason humans dont require them to exist basically saying humans are the only ones capable of being evil.
which actually is a wittle wascist honestly because asgore totally murdered the shitte out the first kid that fell down after chara in pure rage which YES is a evil act.
The stereotype of all Nazi's being bad is true thou...
Not to mention that if every game should be like Undertale, then Undertale has _nothing_ unique about its story, at all. And for the record, I think UT is massively over-hyped, but it’s creation came about from the idea of bucking RPG trends that have the monsters as obstacles you murder for experience points. That kind of idea can’t take root if it’s already the norm.
Undertale is garbage
I've never played Undertale, but the fact that these morally bankrupt grown-ass _children_ think it's the pinnacle of depth makes me not want to pla it.
Wow, this puts my ENTIRE WORLD into perspective. Ive always seen Orcs or slime or demons that were labeled as inherently evil as Nazis. But now i see, maybe i should make the decision myself, maybe i shouldnt just pass judgement because others tell me to. Nazis are people too after all, i wouldnt want to discriminate against them just because that's the social norm now.
Thank you Extra Credits, you truly are a youtube channel.
For people missing the bigger picture, Extra Credits are the ones being racist here.
They hear "those orcs are evil, thieving, pieces of shit that raid villages and kill people for the fun of it."
And instantly think about Black People like its just a normal comparison to make, how could you, you monster.
Not realizing that THEY are the ones seeing Black People as Orcs first, then get morally outraged at us for not realising it (because we aren't racist)
All i can say is if thats your first instinct, then maybe you should re-evaluate how you see people before jumping upon your moral high horse like youre some kind of hero.
Also, hail EFAP
Hail Lobster.
@@Cuzzys2nd Rock Lobster?
Hail EFAP huh? So appropriate the channel of hate, the channel of the anti fan, the channel of anti Snyder and anti Christians are adapting a phrase used by tyrannical regimes throughout history. And no you little trolls, I'm not talking about Orange man bad. Think Caesar, think Hitler.
@@mrbiggles5389 think every Roman emperor, think most Popes. IIRC "hi" evolved from "hail"
@@mrbiggles5389 it must suck taking the world so seriously all the time, im sorry for the life you live, must be stressful
Florida man, "Hey, there is an alligator in my back yard. Could you get rid of it?"
Animal control, "Is it an evil alligator?"
The precise origin of Orcs is not explained in any of Tolkien's writings. What we _do_ know though is that they were not created by the God of Middle Earth.
To cut a long story short, almost all of the world and especially Elves and Men were created by God. Dwarves were created by one of his Angels, but with good intentions. But the strongest of the Angels (Melkor) became envious of God and tried to force his own will on creation. As a part of this, he _tried_ to create life-forms of his own, but it turned out he couldn't. He does not have the ability to give true life (that's linked to the secret fire Gandalf talks about in Moria btw.). So as the next best option, he began to "twist" God's creations to his own designs. For a few evil creatures this is explained explicitly (e.g. Trolls are changed Ents), but unfortunately not for the Orcs. But it is a widely accepted speculation that the Orcs are derived from Elves twisted in this way, and Peter Jackson seems to have incorporated it in the movies.
So Orcs are just about evil by definition, since they are created without any connection to God, and without the equivalent of a soul.
[PS: I deliberately used terms from real live religion to make the ideas easier to understand. While Tolkien has acknowledged that his stories are thoroughly influenced by his Christian faith, his cosmology is different in many aspects and he did not simply use terms from real religion. I also do not mean to endorse _any_ religion, being an Atheist myself]
[PPS: Famously Tolkien didn't want his stories to be read as allegory, going so far as to write a foreword to that effect. I believe it was in the 2nd edition, i.e. the very first chance he got to react to public sentiment. That being said, there is a clear anti-industrial and even anti-modernist streak to tLotR, especially noticeable in the Ents and their fight against Saruman, and the description of the Shire when the Hobbits return. I would also say that descriptions of Sauron in ancillary material and the fate of the Shire strike clear notes against centralized control, planned economy, and related forms of tyranny. But I must admit that my personal beliefs may colour my impressions here.
Also, commenting on an allegorical reading of tLotR, Tolkien dismissed it by reference to real life Britain. To paraphrase, he said _if_ the story was meant to be an allegory, then the ring couldn't possibly have been destroyed. Instead Frodo would have taken it for his own and the whole of Middle Earth would have been conquered in time by Sauron. So clearly he thought that whatever the ring could be understood to represents was _not_ overcome.]
[PPPS: Tolkien actually wrote letters to Hitler and the Nazi party when they were in power, attacking their racial politics and expressly defending Jews. I don't know off the top of my head if there are writings of his regarding other races, but this gives us at least _some_ indication of his beliefs in this field. Given that he was born in Africa, we may guess that he must have had some personal experience with black Africans. So I don't find it hard to believe that he was unusually tolerant given the standards of the time.]
It is thoroughly infuriating how people willfully misunderstand Tolkien or at most don't make any effort to understand his writing.
There’s no canonical explanation I’m aware as to what orcs are and where they came from. There’s hints to give credence to the theory in the Lord of the Rings that they are twisted forms of either elves, men, or both (this is probably what Peter Jackson was going off of). For example, there’s a brief exchange between Sam and Frodo after Sam rescues him from Cirith Ungol. Sam asks, “Don’t orcs eat, and don’t they drink? Or do they just live on foul air and poison?” To which Frodo replies, “No, they eat and drink, Sam. The Shadow that bred them can only mock, it cannot make: not real new things of its own. I don’t think it gave life to the orcs, it only ruined them and twisted them; and if they are to live at all, they have to live like other living creatures.”
If this is true, then it suggests that while orcs are living creatures, they are not a natural life form and are “manufactured” in some way. In this sense, they are more like undead than a fully functioning species.
@@pbradics3670 it's a EFAP comment my guy. I expected three paragraphs explaining why he was even writing the comment.
@@pbradics3670 Except the long you massive
Interesting insight, thanks for sharing.
And don't bang your head too much trying to understand why the shallow are incapable of understabding depth. You can try all you want but you're not going to fit a small size shirt over a XX large size person.
@@afkalmighty1557 You're welcome.
But I didn't want to condescend with my comment. I just didn't want to go into unnecessary detail, since that would just lengthen my comment without really making things more clear.
And I'll gladly admit that it wound up long enough as is ;)
In that fist frame of the Extra Credits video, that girl’s legs are almost in the shape of a swastika.
Extra credits is illuminarty confirmed. Too spooky for me to continue the longman stream.
Hey man, calm down. It's just the windmill of friendship, a comforting sign
Don’t worry, I’m sure it doesn’t get spookier after that.
Edit: there’s a spooky skeleton at 2:34:56, I’m out
So, I'm not the only one who thought that...
That's it, two people are enough to cancel someone you don't like, right??
Extra Credits seems to have intentionally left the Reapers out of his Mass Effect example is it wrong that we define them as all evil?
Well, that's just your opinion about the factual state of the world, and everyone is entitled to their own opinions. /s
Of course, the Reapers didn't have any choice, being unable to deviate from their goal. People ascribe some sort of innocence to that lack of agency, as if though a rabid dog is somehow morally superior to a human being. The lack of free will simply removes the possibility of mercy, and peace can only be won through death and war. Whether or not they can truly be called evil doesn't matter when their acts are evil.
@@MrVeps1 Yet Sovereign and Harbinger were able to demonstrate malice. They may not have been able to deviate from their purpose but they also had personalities which did see themselves as superior to non Reapers.
Another good and similar example from Magic the Gathering would be the Phyrexians a bio mechanical race that harvests any living being as raw materials to create more of their kind. I think that he just missed the mark by a mile again with another video in his weird idealism.
@@cultist1762 The entire premise of this theory is that 21st century human morality is somehow an objective standard than needs to be applied universally... so yeah, the entire theory is based on absolute horseshit, so no surprise they had to leave out a lot of obvious counter-points just so that they could hold it together for 8 minutes...
@@petriew2018 Yes get that however what I am saying the argument for the Reapers goes against his point so he just sides steps if when he discusses his point on Mass Effect, it's dishonest.
Clickbait Headline title; "Nihilists LOVE this Intergalactic Horror!"
As a fellow big guy who is also relatively tall and with a love of black clothes living in Japan, I relate so hard to Mauler’s anecdote of people being afraid of me and not taking it personally
Extra Credits: Provides Hot Takes so spicy that it unites the Entire Internet against them, what a beautiful sight.
They did it again... I'm so proud.
Extra Credits is a weird one.
We don’t deserve them, no really.
It's so spicy! It burnt my mouth 😢
They do it on purpose. It gets them hate clicks.
This whole thing really reminds me of the non functional racial allegory in Zootopia. When Judy does the press conference and says it may be a genetic predisposition to aggression that makes the poison effect these animals and not others and Nick gets all upset and the movie treats it like she's wrong and I'm just sitting there like, she's right, foxes are more genetically predisposed to aggression than bunny rabbits. Stop adding racial allegories into speculative fiction, 99% of the time it doesn't work. Also, stop looking for racial allegories in speculative fiction, 99% of the time there isn't one.
Yeah throwing in racial allegories without actually thinking about the setup you've created is why X-Men comes across as similarly non functional. If there was a subset of humanity who could destroy a city block or brainwash you with a thought it wouldn't be racism to fear them as much as a perfectly rational response to an overwhelming threat. Besides, anyone with sense knows that applicability is superior to allegory in storytelling.
Maybe in the case of rabbits and rabbits it's not accurate to brush all predators with that brush cause there are plenty of prey more aggressive than predators, hippos buffalo and elephants and chimpanzees all more aggressive than alot of predators.
@@MoffatLee george Orwell and kurt vonnegut would disagree
The only rabbit I've seen kill another animal was in monty python.
But no, the inborn nature for predators to be violent and kill things is racism
@@SkaterBlades To be fair, herbivores of significant size are just as if not more likely to attack than predators, out of territorial and protective instincts.
*MauLer wakes up strapped to a chair with a creepy doll nearby.* "Hello, MauLer. I want to play a game. Before you is a tube television from the 1980's, linked to a Nintendo Entertainment System, and linked to that a controller running up to your hands. I trust you're familiar with Tetris?"
MauLer’s powers of length affect the game to make all the the pieces those 1x4 blocks
Make him play on the 64 with the heart monitor that makes the game speed up if you get stressed.
Next we also have the entirety of extra credits and quintons channels playing in the room.
@@ralcogaming7674 2 years later and they finally got around to efaping the saw franchise
@@dean_l33 I am ashamed to admit I'm a year behind on episodes.
It blows my mind how that whole video went through recording, editing, animation... and not one person seemed to stop and think about how fucking terrible the whole thing came off as.
Arrogance is a hell of a drug.
What was wrong with it
@@darwinspain4831 you mean the extra credits video?
Yes
@@darwinspain4831 beyond their opening statement they're straight up wrong.
They say you can't have hard moral questions with evil races
Yes you can that's straight up wrong
They compare orcs to wind, a literal non-living being like it's an actual comparison
Then make the argument that people will feel sympathy for orcs in mindless killing games, when that's never been a problem before.
They then make an argument that evil factions are better ignoring any complexity between that like they try to do with base evil races
One of their examples for evil factions is nazi's and yet in their last video THEY specifically talked about how some german soldiers were FORCED to fight for the nazi's, yet killing them is less objectivle than killing an inherently evil race.
Also I can't tell what's worse Prometheus and covenant or they're perception that Xenomorph's are inherently evil.
And they take this as an objective fact, this isn't an opinion.
I do think no evil races is better but it's not objectivly true. And definitely not for the same reasons.
No I thought that crossbones116 wa s talking about the efap crew
Humanity over the ages has debated about the nature of good and evil.
Extra Credits: Nah, we got this existential issue down in a single TH-cam video.
I made my own video response to EC, and someone in my discord mentioned that you had done a response in way more detail, I had to see this. It was well worth it. XD I am not worthy!
Absolutely amazing take and I greatly enjoyed this.
what's funny is that if someone were to replace the Orcs with Nazis and use the same arguments in their video. Extra credits would have a huge problem, then if someone were to point this out their brain would probably short circuit.
Guys, I’ve got it; every version of Tabletop RPG *must* include a Paladin Consultant- a big guy in armor whom the DM turns to and says, for example:
“So, Frank wants to play a Necromancer. Is that okay?”
And the Paladin Consultant strokes his mustache, considering, and says “No, that’s too evil. He should play a Priest, Paladin, or Monk, instead.”
Also, the thing about people like Extra Credits And their _unique_ brand of Race-tism is that they are plagued by what is known as “the soft bigotry of low expectations.” It’s when they’re talking to a black person, for example, and say something to the effect of “You know, you’re _very_ well-spoken!” As if they’re surprised by the fact that melanin levels *don’t* have any effect on a person’s ability to speak cogently...
Tl;dr- If you think someone needs help purely on the basis of their gender, skin color, or sexuality, then you are regarding that person as being inferior to you by virtue of their existence. And that’s racist.
Does anyone else feel like extra credit just does this to stay relevant?
You've just basically described 75% of all media organizations/creators and 50% of everyone with a similar "behavior" as Extra Credit still going/putting out content on TH-cam... Arrrg'ably.
Trying to invent lies about Snyder films is just par for the course for EFAP. Desperate attempts to stay relevant is secondary to spreading SDS (Snyder Derangement Syndrome)
@@mrbiggles5389
Still a walking example of the "I hope you are trolling" concept, aren't ya, little clown boi?!
😀
@@amanibob1416 I only tell the truth EFAP and left wing lobbyist. I speak for the forgotten man and the forgotten woman. EFAP, the enemy of the people.
@@mrbiggles5389
Self-thumb-up? Seriously... You made me laugh so hard I woke me neighborhood just now. Don't feel bad for being you, it's a "you can't win em' all" situation and I feel like a winner every time I read dem tism-flake pieces...
Honest take: if you don't ever change, I'll never be sure you ain't 100% "truly that derpy", so don't you ever drop the act, please.
I'm writing my dissertation on SJWs and in it I made the argument that bioessentialism is something which, in time, every SJW would reject on moral grounds.
Then EC comes along and injects bioessentialism into a nonsense video that has nothing whatsoever to do with game design.
So I'm pleased as cheese to add them to my growing list of real world and well-known examples.
So I suppose the next thing they'll do is attack male/female character selection but going further, rather than arguing in favor of a spectrum they'll argue for a mosaic or something with two or more dimensions. 'Cause y'know, it's not enough to be on a spectrum between two poles, you have to abolish the poles as well because LITERAL discrimination is a sin to the SJW.
And it's literal discrimination which operates on categories which themselves operate on standards (otherwise understood as definitions) which ipso facto is why SJWs hate Mauler so much along with his OBJECTIVE ANALYSIS of media. He uses standards which are categorized which is an act of discrimination. So yeah, the same reason SJWs hate the inarguable concept of bioessentialism* is the same reason they predictably hate Mauler.
I think it's wonderful: to have so much data and such predictable results. No spiders required!
Actually come to think of it, their next hot-take will be about moral systems in RPGs with specific focus/attack on the concept of forgiveness.
*(Bioessentialism is true even when applied to humans via generalization, since all categories are necessarily generalized - no exceptions - which results in the identification of everything within 1 standard deviation as fundamentally the thing in question. This is where 'exceptions prove the rule' comes from. Outliers represent 'failures' and everything else beyond outliers represent 'that which is unable to succeed'. 'Inability to succeed' is distinct and not a form of failure because being unable to succeed means you couldn't try to begin with. All failures can TRY by definition, which makes them a 'failure to be the thing in question' rather than 'NOT the thing in question AT ALL'. It's the difference between a 'broken down car' and a 'frog'. One is still a car enough if it's lost its function or form or fit. The other is a frog. But SJWs don't understand this because they apply a spectral analysis to everything. So everything is just a poor version of everything else and nothing can be said to 'fail', only 'achieve differently' (which you see best demonstrated in their conceptualization of gender). Hence their inability to criticize media objectively. Once again, they can't accept any sort of essentialism, even enough to agree on what something is or even what constitutes a 'success'. Ergo, they reject the notion of a 'true' or 'real' anything. With that, a 'good' or 'better' or 'best' version of anything is also rejected. It's 'all subjective' and they scoff at anyone who claims otherwise. Which is hilariously self-defeating but they don't recognize that.)
« One is still a car enough if it’s lost its function or form or fit. The other is a frog »
For some reason, this cracks me up. I have no clue why XD
@@nathanjora7627 Yeah same, especially after reading it out of context.
@@nathanjora7627 Maybe I should switch over to frog then? Because in the work I used 'hamster'.
Also, you caught a typo. 'Enough' should be 'even'.
@@Marcara081 I did catch a typo and as a proud frog myself, I would totally advise you to replace the hamster with a frog.
You could also replace it with « cheese eating surrendering monkey », but that’d be a mouthful ^^
An interesting thing about sjws is while they reject bioessentialism they seem to be avid adherents to bio-social-essentialism. For example to them white and black aren't colloquially European or African origin, they are identities, collectives of history and action. As such they project these sociological constructs as an absolute representation of people based on their traits and characteristics (you are Y because X) as opposed to bioessentialist thinking (you are X therefore Y). It's a distinction without a difference, but in their mind justifies acting like seething racists.
Judge a tree by its fruits: Moral objectivism produced Lord of the Rings; moral relativism produced Game of Thrones.
"im evil beacuse of my decisions"
All thats missing to that flag is an extra Credit t-shirt
tfw the trigger warnings are more triggering than the content they're warning you about
Humans: "The Eldritch Gods are pure evil!"
Extra Credits: "I am not so sure about that. "
Literally only ONE of the Outer Gods can be described as good, and that's because he's literally everyone else
@@callumbreton8930 The stupid blind dreaming god?
In case someone doesn't know about WH40k and Necrons and they are curious of the context:
The Necrons used to be mindless killing machines. Their original incarnations were these killer robots entombed in planet-spanning complexes after a cataclysmic war in the distant past, and when they woke up, they would completely eliminate all sentient life in the vicinity. That was it. They were simply omnicidal.
Later they were reworked and retconned into ancient Egyptian pharaos in space, with them having different kings and dynasties with their own quirky personalities; some of them would even occasionally help other races in face of a greater threat, while others would remain omnicidal.
However, only the kings and the generals/priests/etc. are sentient; all of their foot soldiers and war machines are still completely mindless, and they would still happily slaughter everyone in their vicinity unless their king tells them otherwise.
Fun fact those Necron warriors (the base unit) were made from every citizen including children.
Granted even in 9th they are more than willing to kill e v e r y o n e
Just like they did to the Old Ones.
I don't understand the statement, and I won't respond to it
Fun fact: One of the sentient Lords has gone crazy/senile and thinks he is still flesh and blood. He even pretends to eat food and takes prisoners. He once had a bunch of generals/leaders prisoner, one of which was a Space Wolf leader (can't remember if it was their chapter master or a specific captain), attend a 'dinner' with him. The Space Wolf ends up killing everyone else with his fists and the Lord lets him go because he's such a badass. The Space Wolves swear to kill him later as a result of this.
The happy slime monsters make me wanna make a game with them as the villains as they gleefully terrorize the world saying things like "The humans shall be purged!" joyfully.
Do it
"I'm not a bad slime!"
And make him a brown slime to really get them representation points
If you wanna get political, when you start to fight em off you could have a rare phrase they say be :"Slime Lives Matter"!
The talk about "A Clockwork Orange" reminds me of a story from my school days. One of the topics of my German course was film adaptation of novels. My teacher asked the course if we had any suggestions of good novels that had been adapted and that we might cover, and some friends and I suggested "A Clockwork Orange". We all knew the movie at the time, and I had read the book as well. We didn't actually think he would take up the suggestion, but he actually did.
A few lessons into the topic, at least one girl handed in a notice from her parents excusing her from having to watch any scenes of the film. But the teacher stuck to his decision, the mad lad.
Great times.
I rewatched that movie recently.
2:33:00 Rags hit the nail on the head here. It isn't that everyone thinks in broad, overly simplified terms and instances, it's that THESE GUYS do. And they need to make it out like everyone does so they don't look like the outliers, like the ones we see everything differently, the ones who make this overly simplistic and way too broad, lacking in any nuance or complexity... and sometimes even CONTEXT.
These people act like everyone else sees things in black and white, when THEY are the biggest offenders. They want/need things to be that simplistic to make their points at all seem valid.
Currently studying Game Development/Design and one of my teachers (he doesn't teach anymore, I think he retired tho I'm not sure) actually said to watch a bunch of EC cuz they'll teach you how to make good games/stories. He literally dedicated a lesson to showing us EC vids. No wonder this industry is in its current state...
Extra credits was always wrong in a Lot of things
But they used to make sense sometimes
10 years from now.... LOTR has a sequel trilogy. The humans are forced to pay reparations for the Orcs having their homeland invaded by the colonizers. Frodo gets retroactively outed as a closeted racist and Legolas gets told to do better.
The reference EC made to Mass Effect is deficient. You only encounter ONE group of batarians in the first game, in the Bring Down the Sky DLC mission. Those batarians are a group of anti-human terrorists who have taken control of an asteroid and maneuvered it onto a collision course with a human colony world. Maybe that gives the player a bad first impression of the batarian race, sure, but does anyone play through that DLC and honestly come away thinking that all batarians must be like these guys? I certainly didn't.
There's even a point in the DLC where one squad of the batarians engages you in conversation, and you can appeal to the leader and convince him and his men to abandon the group. Even in the small amount of screen time they were given in ME1, there was more to them than just one-dimensional bad guys.
If you can't come up with better arguements, at least choose better references EC!
+ he didnt mention the Reapers.... i wonder why
I also wish to point out that in two you meet a lot of other batarians. Plenty of whom are just looking to survive or make money. That also ignores one of the running themes (yes I use the dreaded t-word. Sometimes drastic measures must be taken) that no race is a planet of hats. Sinners and Saints, and everything in between, amongst all of them. I think Wrex in particular is proof of that. He’s unimpressed with the self destructive nature of many of the Krogan’s traditions, and actively seeks to overturn their fate as a dying race.
I don’t know why anyone who played Mass Effect would think the Batarians would be a pure evil race. Even the group you meet in Bring Down the Sky still show differing motives, with one pirate definitely not onboard with the asteroid plan, and even the guy who does demonstrates a twisted and self serving yet understandable line of logic to his actions.
It’s worth noting that your encounters with batarians and exploration of the Hegemony’s people is minimal throughout the trilogy.
Fringey: Bowser wasn't evil after all
Bowser: "We're not so different, you and I!"
Fringy becomes part of the Koopa Troopa clan.
Mario: "You do realize your 8th Koopaling is just an Australian man in a plague doctor mask, right?"
Bowser: "He's an honorary Koopaling, you dick"
@@TheSlammurai The D in Bowser’s name stands for diversity
What a bizarre video this was. Everything about it was just oddly hypocritical, and weirdly close minded for a group that's trying to hide under the veil of being progressive.
Anyway, another fun EFAP session! Huzzah!
"Weirdly close minded"? I'd argue it was pretty typically close minded for an apostle of The One True Way. Everything NEEDS to be political, to be racist, so that when it's convenient, even playing DnD with your friends is an act of hate and violence.
Welcome to progressivism
You say "oddly" and "weirdly" while I'd say "expectedly" since most videos I see from people proclaiming this thought process are just projecting their own views.
@@robinthrush9672 I think his use of “oddly” is that he goes into most videos hoping that people make points. This just disappointed him and everyone else.
Woo EFAP!
I don't care whether a race is pure evil or not. Even if they are complex and fleshed out, that still won't stop me from murdering them if necessary. Just like how I still happily killed Krogan and Geth alike in Mass Effect, despite being friends with Legion, Wrex, and Grunt. To quote Hunter from Metro 2033 "If it's hostile, you kill it."
Extra credits: "Any soldiers in a ww2 game fighting for the nazis side is a full blown nazi and you can't assume they are good people being forced to fight"
Also extra credits: "you shouldn't assume all of the members of this alien race who almost wiped out humanity are all evil"
@@SkaterBlades Why try and reason with the Snyder Derangement Syndrome channel that is EFAP? They don't run on logic, they run on hate. EFAP, the channel of hate.
@@mrbiggles5389 What?
@@mrbiggles5389 why are you so hellbent to reply to every comment that efap has this 'SDS'? It comes off as desperate for attention.
@@mrbiggles5389 hey, man. After a month of trolling comments on unrelated videos, do you ever stop to think that maybe its time to stop? That maybe the director behind Sucker Punch isnt an infallible messenger from God? I get long term trolling but we're getting to a point of diminishing returns here.
03:20:13 As someone who has DM'd a few campaings, I can sorta relate to that unspoken rule. Had one group of players who for the life of them could not accept that the kingoms had armies at the ready. "Medival Era kingdoms did not have standing armies!" - I was told... "Yes, they did not. However this is DnD, not medival times, and if you had paid attention to the back-drop lore I gave you guys in a folder, you would know that the two kingdoms were at war." - was my response.
One dude still tried to force me to change that aspect of the campaign. He simply would not accept that they could run in to a battle/skirmish between two armies. It was mostly because they hand-waved some of the lore I crafted for the campaign, but the one dude really wanted the war between the kingdoms gone for some reason.
That sounds utterly bizarre.
@@dodojesus4529 Tell me about it. I mean, I provided them with backdrop lore, but the guy just did not want to accept that, at all. He had agreed to the setting of the campaign when I pitched it to them, but then he was utterly commited to get me to change it back.
@@SgtSpecOps1 Just to set it straight, the guy didnt accept that two nations had a war?
The hell is that logic?
@@dodojesus4529 I talked with the dude and what I got was as I previously stated that he was afraid of running in to 1 or 2 armies or potentialy being in the middle of a battlefield. I dont know why he assumed I would just dump the party in the middle of a battle and be like "righty-o boys... survive."
@@SgtSpecOps1 was he a war veteran
2:00:00 I'm kind of wishing Aydin Paladin had been on this stream. I think she would've had some things to say about the evolutionary origin of behavioral traits.
She's one of the better EFAP Guests
This was a really interesting for me episode thanks to an idea that was thrown out by the EFAP cast. When Extra Credits brought in real world examples of people who were evil because of their decisions, such as the KKK, Fringy was the first to bring up that many of the people in those groups were raised in environments that encouraged that mentality. This leads to the question: did they choose to be evil or were they just victims of unfortunate circumstances that made them evil?
This fascinated me because that question applies greatly to one of the stories I’ve been working on. In the story, a young girl is taken in by a ruthless, totalitarian monster, hellbent on world domination, at the age of 8. For the next ten years, this evil man (who is evil because of his decisions) trains the young girl to become the ultimate killing machine, the most ruthless killer in the world. After these ten years, the girl’s brother comes in, kicks the bad guy’s ass, but is struggling with the idea of hurting his sister. This is because, in the brother’s eyes, his sister only became this ruthless, evil killer because she was raised by a psychopath. The girl escapes, becoming a fugitive running from the law, but a few questions are left up in the air for the audience: is the girl guilty of killing those people if the psycho who raised her made her that way? Should she face the same consequences as the bad guy? If she learned the truth and rejects the bad guy’s teachings, should she be forgiven, or does she still deserve punishment for those crimes? And, most importantly, is she really an evil person, or just the victim of horrific circumstances?
It’s a fascinating topic, and one that I hope I’m capable of bringing to life in a satisfying way, both intellectually and emotionally. But people like Extra Credits would have you believe that if a person is part of an evil group, they are just evil and should be punished accordingly. Unless we’re talking about fantasy races, then you can’t call them evil because that’s bad worldbuilding, somehow...
Extra Credits also ignores the fact that there were Slavic soldiers like some Czechs who were forced to fight with the Nazis after having their territory taken.
Extra Credits: "she's irredeemably evil, but that dude was only acting within his nature so he's cool."
It's a extremely interesting topic that certainly doesn't get the attention it deserves. The various dynamics of why someone would fight for the evil side can be very interesting to dive into. Is it money, idealogy, convenience, or like your character just circumstance.
An example of mishandling of this would obviously be Finn and the Disney era Stromtroopers. Finn himself introducing that FO Stormtroopers are kidnapped as kids then sent out to fight and it's never really acknowledged again after that because SW needed their fooder.
The real villain is her brother for not killing her when he had the chance and allowing her to kill more people. At least lock her up, damn it. Seriously, random bouts of mercy are the most annoying, Hollywood-fueled trope in existence.
At least you introduced a blood relationship, that makes people think that this is what human beings might do.
Indeed, there is no universal - 'objective' - framework of reason, justice, moralism, all which go into determining a people's or person's conception of what constitutes evil. There is a consensus that what the Jews were subjected to was 'evil'; however, the perpetrators saw it perfectly reasonable and moral to attempt to wipe them out.
Fringy: "...it's the end of free will,which doesn't make sense because free will isn't real anyway"
Hold up
Y yrah what the fuck fringty
@@dimitriwarchief301 he wanted an excuse to say “nough” a lot.
*NOUGH*
@@smugalice6206 oh right....unbeliable...
Atheists be like:
wow youtube actually notified me at the right time. that's rare.
"Epic."
Random orcish individual
@@amanibob1416 Indeed.
I didn't get anything.. :(
Don't worry
The internet will make up for it by failing to notify you of Silksong's release date untill 6 months after the games release
@@Eshtian We must first overcome the infection in order to be fully hollow.
4:45:49 Undead... Is that the hill we're dying on today? The faction frequently characterized by their reliance on extremely large amounts of mindless and selfless low-level units should have deep and complex personal stories and morals. We should absolutely not assume that these famously replaceable and expendable hordes are in any way either of those things.
Thatd be like starcraft zerglings suddenly talking philosophy.
" *Orcs had their chances!* "
Random racist person
“The Knife Ears had their chance!”
-Local Squat justifiably holding a grudge
"NEVER TRUST AN ELF!"
Lord Garithos
Orcs must die! So good they made a sequel.
Grey Warden 1: I don't know guys, maybe we shouldn't be killing the Darkspawn.
Grey Warden 2: *looks at what's left of Lothering* ..... *smacks Warden 1 across the head*
not a dragon age fan - but this had me in tears xD
In one of our VtM games back in the day one of the players used flesh magic to turn still living people into a literal blood fountain as decoration for a vampire party. Good times.
In regards to evil races being less interesting: That is correct simply by virtue of having a fixed quality, however the limit of variables is high enough that even with that fixed quality a race can nonetheless be engaging. Look at the Mordor games; all the orcs are evil, but outside of the completely insane ones all of them are different. You can still have friendships, peerage, rivalries, loyalty, and much more all while maintaining an evil morality. In regards to the collective of a race there is still room for depth. In Warhammer 40k orks are mostly streamlined due to being much more instinct based than intelligent, but the shear scope of lore and culture allows the race to be as and even more nuanced than many fallen hero/reluctant villain types of races.
In regards to inalienable qualities for personality: Firstly, you seemed reluctant to give any examples of such, but the most obvious one I think is vulcans. All vulcans are logical to the extreme even if it is to slightly varying degrees. There are also plenty of real life examples of biologically evil qualities; the sadists, the sociopaths, and the psychopaths. All an evil race would need would be a large enough portion of the population being born with innately immoral qualities (usually paired with an inability, through impulsiveness and/or unintelligence, to restrain those qualities), and it would be almost inevitable that a culture would develop which would reinforce and glorify those qualities.
Finally, it isn't even necessarily a bad thing to have generic evil races, since it could detract from the focus of the narrative. In the original Star Wars trilogy the stormtroopers might as well have been orcs for all the focus they were given, but it didn't matter because their dynamics outside of antagonist to the heroes were completely irrelevant. It didn't matter the race of the enemy in Lord of the Rings; what mattered was how the heroes were going to unite the lands to defeat them. It is only through limiting the moral shades of grey that the heroics of the moral white are able to shine as brightly as they do.
Going off of that last bit, it can create a lot of potential interesting stories to tell in the future. A lot of people were excited for Finn in the new Star Wars trilogy, citing his potential as one of the better things. It's a great way to twist the story, seeing the normal "bad guys" suddenly humanized, becoming the main characters. If done well, it can also make you think about all the other stories in a different ligh, and in general, really build on the universe. For a non movie example, the introduction of Legion in Mass Effect 2. Like Finn, he was a fan favorite character, and I think it's because he was a member of the previously "all evil" race of enemies from the first game. In games where you can recruit characters, the ones that start out as villains tend to be pretty popular once they join you.
Vulcans are not inalienably logical by default. The exact opposite, in fact. They highly emotional but they train their young from essentially birth to control their emotions to an extreme degree, and to only use logic. It's Nurture not Nature that they act that way, enforced by social standards where they ostracize anyone who doesn't. I heard a theory that all the Vulcans who aren't as good at it are encouraged to join Starfleet where they will be accepted more.
That idea of a charismatic, funny Dwarf is a thing they did in Dragon Age 2, Varric Tethras is a wise cracking, mountain hating bard who shaves his beard and hates being underground and doing craftwork
Beat thing bout that game.
And unless I'm remembering wrong, Varric does at one point imply that many Dwarves are like that because of the culture of Orzammar, and having to live underground. Dwarves who go "topside" (usually either merchants or exiles) seem to shed some of that. Varric is so different partly because he was born and raised above-ground.
It's just too bad he only shows up in the worst game, and the woke-ist game.
Origins is so damn good.
@@getthegoons I thought three was good...
I would like to say that Coding is actually a useful term that’s different from an Allegory. It’s used...weirdly in this video but the concept is basically adding characteristics of a certain group of people onto a non human entity. Like if you had a purple alien dude with Dreadlocks that spoke in Ebonics/aave, they would be coded “black”. Can be used to make an allegory, like with the orcs from Bright, but a lot of times it’s just a design choice/preference
The issue is that some people love to decode stuff even if there is nothing. Say, realizing that the jellyfish speaking ebonics or the criminal boss shark with an italian accent in Shark Tale are supposed to be representatives of human groups is not a stretch at all when it was clearly intentional, and if you replaced all the characters with equivalent human actors in a prohibition-era Chicago setting, you could tell 90% of it without tweaking the script.
However, how do you decode the Borg? Or the Tyranids? Or in this case, Orcs? Especially when the classic Tolkien orcs were anything but coded black, as I don't think there was a single black civilization in history that lived underground, literally couldn't bear being exposed to sunlight, and were the most industrious and technologically advanced of their era.
My problem is most the time its just used for desgin where the actual lore and story of the cultural could be entirely based on a different culture.
@@jd2792 Even then, you usually cannot win.
For example, I still remember an old Cracked article that argued that the Orcs in Oblivion were racist because their faces were flat (which was true, but so was every other face; that game's random generated faces were atrocious) and they were using an Asian-style armor, meaning they were obviously a caricature of Mongolians and Chinese. Then they argued that they had an intelligence demerit as a racial trait, meaning the game was saying Mongolians and Chinese were stupid. Yes, this was actually a thing.
I also remember someone pointing out in the comments that the Nords, the whitest white guys in the setting, also had the same intelligence demerit, but apparently that doesn't count. That's why it really doesn't matter even if you try to "code" a character or a race in an unusual way, if someone wants to latch onto it, they can spin it into being racist anyway. The only winning move is to not play the game.
Whether you liked EC early on or not. EC seriously dropped in quality when Dan floyd was ousted from his own channel. Dan was still pretty left, but I never got the feeling that his politics overrode his personality.
After the DCEU, the next EFAP needs to be Bright, a Netflix movie starring Will Smith in a modern fantasy where orcs are literally black people and elves are literally rich white people. When did the "orcs are racist" argument start because Bright came out in 2017 and I wonder that despite no one remembering this movie, it may have had some bad influence on these culture warriors. It's like EC saw this movie and now thinks stuff like Warcraft, Elder Scrolls, LOTR, and D&D have been doing the exact same thing all along to brainwash people unfamiliar with these domains.
but that's one of the many reasons Bright is so terrible. They want you to think of Orcs as black people, but there are also black people and they hate the orcs too. It just completely falls apart as an allegory.
if it focused less on racial nonsense it could have been a great shadowrun movie.
I dunno, they tell you in the movie that the Orcs were originally evil and fought with the dark lord to end humanity. Then when the Dark Lord was defeated the Orcs tried to change their ways and go into society.
Makes sense to me that the Orcs would be distrusted by society and therefore be a mistrusted minority from the “light” races.
That being said, if it’s a knee jerk reaction I can see how people would make the judgement that Orcs are black people. As dumb as it is, being a fantasy and not reality.
The equivocation of orcs and black people was a thing before Bright. Bright was just leaning heavily into that rather than having even the least bit of creativity on their own.
The archetypal orc is mostly based on Dungeons and Dragons in which they generally live in tribal hunter-gatherer societies with a culture that glorifies violence and doesn't value academics. Certain people see that and immediately think "black people".
In most settings I see that conclusion as tenuous at best. Other than Bright the only setting I can think of where it's at all valid is Warcraft (starting from Warcraft III), but of course those orcs aren't an evil race so that doesn't support Extra Credits' case.
@@VitalVampyr Warcraft orcs take more from a mix of germanic and native american elements then and black ones so really blights the only one thats leaned into it.
>Have you finished the conquest?
Not yet, Fringsaad.
>Then why have you summoned me?
I bring news. Before mighty Longseid came to the throne, he searched the interwebs for the ultimate weapon, the Anti-Tism equation. The key to controlling all opinions and all critique throughout the world. He found it in the fan base of a beloved series, but before he coul-
>The story of the defiance is well known.
I have found the beloved series! The one that fought back! It is ATLA! The Anti-Tism equation is carved into the surface of this very series!
...Are you certain?
I have seen it. I have looked with my own eyes...on Anti-Tism...
>Dominae... wumbonius... objectivae... crusadae...
(Fringsaad disappears from view, before chat members gather around, falling to one knee, just as the image of the imposing Longseid takes form)
My lord...
>>hrmm...steppensivi
My Lord, I am but your humble servant!
>>Can it be true that you have found it?
I have, Long One. The lost series is ATLA. Anti-Tism is here.
>>If it is ascension you seek, find the final video for our coverage, synchronize the criticisms, and when the show is scorched, I will come for my great prize!
You will come to ATLA?
>>I have turned 100,000 opinions to dust looking for Anti-Tism, looking for those who robbed me of my glory! I will stride across their feelings and bask in glow of Anti-Tism, and all of criticism shall be mine!
It shall be so, my master...
3:26:09 - A problem Extra Credit has here is that is assumes "befriend the slime monster" is a "good choice" rather than a "stupid choice". It's not like in other games that have a Karma System or otherwise makes moral decisions on your actions, because if that were the case, the developer has stated "these guys are evil, so killing them will be a good option".
A player saying "I'll decide if these guys are good are evil" is just kind of crazy thinking they know better than the developer or GM of a setting as to the nature of what they're interacting with. It's not like in the real world you get to decide if the shifty guy in the dark alley is good or not. The guy will let you know should you approach him.
It's like Extra Credits want the players to have the ability to make choices, but be free of the negative consequences of said choices.
"Evil races" have nothing to do with game design. That is all subjective and speculative.
"Game Design" is the underlaying mechanics that enable the player to engage with the medium and work towards the ultimate goal or high score: gameplay loop.
"Race" and "Evil" are narrative constructs that make up the story that a narrative-driven game is trying to tell.
It can have to do with game design as it relates to mechanic/narrative alignment (only applies to games with a narrative - something like Tetris is obviously exempt). In general, games that can make the gameplay mechanics work in tandem with the game's narrative tend to be better games (Undertale is a fantastic example of this). So, if you want to make a game where you just go on a massive killing spree, it helps if the enemies are demons, like in the case of Doom. If you have a game that's about moral ambiguity or redemption in some way, then it helps if your mechanics let you have non-violent or non-lethal solutions (Metal Gear series, Dishonored series). So, enemy design in terms of "evil races" can apply, but not in the way Extra Credits talk about. They're a bunch of idiots.
This is the thing that really annoyed me, alignment in modern day D&D is just flavor. It’s completely up to the DMs discretion, and ultimately unless you have a very RAW DM, not all orcs are going to be evil.
This just makes it clear to me that people making this an issue have no real clue how D&D is played, or are legitimately virtue signaling.
It feels like Extra Credits has a bunch of these awful take videos and just releases them whenever they get irrelevant
Yea it sounds like they tried to pull the parallel universe time travel idea but they wanted to write Cap out so they fucked the idea that he wouldn’t be able to show up old if they kept to the parallel timeline idea.
I can't wait for Fringy's video. I will be there to defend his points in the comments if I must.
It also shows that Cap could have saved Bucky, he could have Saved Tony's parents, and he could have atleast tried to stop Thanos from snapping, yet he didn't.
He just goes back in time, and let's everything play out. No attempts to make things better. Literally just abandons everyone to live his life with Peggy.
@@eaglebearer very very true and it Fs with so many other things. 😣
an interesting problem with Marvel's time travel that people seem to be missing is the only thing that seemed to cause a paradox was messing with the infinity stones themselves. Like, if you actually pay close attention, apparently it's only even the Time stone that seems to be an issue there... anything else seems to be fair game. So yeah, the MCU world building is not officially a dumpster fire.
@@petriew2018 uhm.. the mind stone.. Age of Ultron won't happen as it happed.
Plus, the tessaract is gone, which Fringy rightfully said.. this is gonna change the future.
Warhammer 40k: the origin of the term “grimdark” in which every faction is horrifically evil or horrible in at least one way - and probably more.
Extra credits: wHy Is ThE gOoD FaCtIoN cOmMiTtInG xEnOcIdE?
Which faction isnt commiting genocide in that setting?
@@adrianoippolito1999 I mean, Chaos wants to expand it's influence, not destroy everything... so does that make them the good guys?
@@petriew2018 only good guy is old papa nurgle, he just wants a plague-ridden hug
@@petriew2018 see; Khorne's realm of endless war. They very much desire the desolation of all sapient races.
@@petriew2018 Technically the Imperium doesn’t want to destroy everything either, and neither do the eldars, Dark eldars and tau, I don’t think « wanting galactic domination instead of galactic destruction » is enough to warrant being called « the good guys » XD
Them holding up Mass Effect as the gold standard for their argument isn't just an insult to the game by association, they're also completely wrong.
Every race in that trilogy has temperaments and stereotypes that you can rely on to be present pretty consistently. Exceptions to the rule are just that.
I also find it hilarious that he mentions Batarians specifically, considering the only one you meet who doesn't have a murderous hatred for humans works for the most prolific crime boss in the Terminus systems.
Commander Shepard did nothing wrong when he blew up the Omega 4 Relay.
-Post from Vanguard Colonist/Ruthless Gang
Extra Credits: "Sounds like bIack people to me."
Also isnt the reason why most barbarians you encounter are assholes is cuz they are all criminals/convicts that were pushed out/exiled from batarian space because it's a closed system?
Like I said in the chat. Just because I made friends with Legion, that doesn't mean that I didn't murder hundreds of Geth, especially when said Geth were attacking me. Same with the Krogan. And to be fair to the Batarians, the ones on the Citadel in ME3 didn't have any murderous hatred for humans once they got to know them. We also have to keep in mind that they are brainwashed by the government to believe that humans are evil because of the Skyllian Blitz conflict.
@@RogueFox2185 Wait I exist?- Biotic Spacer Sole Survivor Gang
This still doesn't answer the main question though!
Are parademons supposed to be black?
Parademon lives matter!
No, they're supposed to be Alfred.
2:57:00 Slimes: "Looks like meat's back on the menu boys!"
In the The Forgotten Realms setting, wich most campaigns are set in D&D: Orcs were created by Gruumsh, the one eyed chaotic evil god of war and storms. Still in the 10th reprint of the Player's Handbook for 5th edition D&D, it is suggested that even Half-Orcs can't fully escape Gruumsh's influence!
Pitbulls are a tricky breed. From all the ones that I've encountered there's probably an equal ratio of nasty potential biters to the sweetest, most chill doggos you'll ever see. And it's all down to what anyone will tell ya - the owner. Each time the chill pitbull had a chill owner, and the aggressive ones had owners that were either kinda assholes, or so scared of what the dog might do that they projected it onto the dog and made the dog anxious about everything and constantly on edge.
Here's the thing... an aggressive chihuahua is far less dangerous than an aggressive pitbull.
Your Bengal tiger could be the chillest, sweetest boy in the world... he's still a seven foot long, eight-hundred pound apex hunter with claws that can gut grown man like a fish and jaws that can rip his head from his body before he can scream.
2:22:00 - OH MY GOD SOMEONE FINALLY PUT IT INTO WORDS.
On Mendez Hodes’ “reminding people of oppression” point: Why is this question never brought up with regards to people who have had violent experiences in general that can they can be reminded of by similar situations in media? Is that too broad and not able to be used to label people as -ists?
On the WH40k parts, the thing is, everything good indeed already happened in that setting, at least as far as humanity is concerned. Humans had their sprawling space empire that was a star-trek-esque wonderland, and their technology was on par with the freaking Necrons. Then an AI rebellion happened (probably orchestrated by Chaos, or possibly a C'tan), then psykers happened (also orchestrated by Chaos) and then when the Emprah rose and tried to pick up the pieces, he was killed in a rebellion (also also orchestrated by Chaos).
In other words, the current WH40k setting is a post-post-post apocalyptic hellhole on a galactic scale, where everyone hates everyone, half of the races are straight up evil (dark eldar torture and kill for fun and to protect their own souls from being munched on by a chaos god, orks are literally incapable of anything other than war as they were genetically programmed shock-troopers who reproduce by dying in combat, tyranids are a swarm of space-locust that is only concerned with eating all the biomass in existence, the necrons are either mindless omnicidal maniacs, or mindless automatons led by quirky omnicidal maniacs, and the forces of chaos are just twenty pounds of insane in a five pound bag) while the rest are "reasonably" xenophobic (the empire hates everyone else because they have a hard time keeping things together even without trying to accommodate the reasonable aliens, the eldar are a declining race of survivors who manipulate others into proxy-wars because they lack the numbers to fight them, and the tau are eugenics-loving brainwashed space communists who view everyone else as certifiably mad, and they aren't necessarily mistaken).
In short, it is a setting where all the good things have indeed already happened, and we are only watching the ruins of once great civilizations slowly falling apart. Not exactly a setting designed for moralizing.
Also the only time anything good may happen to you is if you’re an Orc Warboss or a Rogue Trader, anything else and you’re completely screwed.
Basically... "You gotta deal with it, arrrg'ably."
So basically, fuck Chaos.
The whole setting is just an excuse for wargaming, so wisely the game designers knew you can't actually have a 'good guy' because then that forces the players to behave one way or another depending on their faction, which just limits them. So every race is pretty much an asshole on some level. Even the Tau, who are less overtly militaristic, are painted as a mix of tyrannical and painfully naive as they're woefully unprepared for the galaxy at large
which makes it a great example of how evil races can, in fact, be entirely justified by your setting because it's not 21st century america so it doesn't HAVE to conform to current human morality. Orks are literally a fungus, after all, so trying to humanize them makes no sense for the story your telling.
@@vlad4o813 The funny thing is, you can't even do that. Chaos is the product of the Warp, which is the manifestation of the collective unconscious of every sentient being that ever lived in the galaxy. Some fluff says that the Necrons theoretically have the technology to separate the material world from the Warp, but doing so would either kill every native organic being in the galaxy, or at the very least completely lobotomize them. So yeah, you can't even fuck Chaos in this setting (unless you are a Slaaneshi cultist and do it literally, but that's beside the point).
In relation to the point about Hydra, there's a character called Hydra Bob who just a regular dude who joined Hydra because him wife was bugging him to get a job and Hydra has good employee benefits. He's usually portraited as being not very evil and he even sometimes teams up with Deadpool (usually against his will) his a pretty interesting example of a member of Hydra not being evil
39:01 I like how you’ve just pitched Lethal Weapon but with Kong and Godzilla...
Call it non lethal kill
*Guardsmen turns around*
"LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING ABOUT THE TYRANIDS!"
*Space Marine gets ripped in half in the background*
I can just imagine the EC team on their soap box podium next to the commisar saying this shit and this one guardsman just pauses mid charge, and slowly turns around with the most pissed off face imaginable
3:02:38 Person in chat: "Extra Credits seem like post-modernists in uni, basically pushing the idea that evil is subjective."
Theo: "Please do not use the word post-modernist, you don't know what it means."
This triggered me. Such a snotty, arrogant, pretentious response. There's no way that Theo could determine anything about how much the person knows based on that short statement, and there was nothing about it that contradicted the concept. Post-modernism is not all that esoteric or difficult to understand, and its break down of categories absolutely could apply to Extra Credit's cretinous video.
*In defense of Endgame:* Cap was already out of character in the beginning of the movie, where he is shown to be only going through the motions and not caring to be a hero at all. So him staying in the past and not taking actions during horrific tragedies is consistent with that.
Thats not much but its what you got
developer: spacebar to jump!
extra credits: i'll be the one to decide that!
I mean yeah - that's what Control changes are for xD
I saw this video pop up 3 hours ago and thought it would be great for you guys to EFAP it up. And now here you are. Guess the Spiders have been whispering in my ear.
Just as the spiders foretold.
"it's a me problem, not a you problem"
Sounds like YOU need to fix that then bud.
Don't know the Lord of the Rings orc thing is in question. In the movie Sarumon literally has a monologue that describes exactly how they are made and why they are evil.
Not only are orcs not a creature that can occur naturally, the process that creates them instills a hunger for violence, war, and power. They don't feel things like love or have empathy.
Which is why when there is no one to fight they often kill eachother.
The N word echoing in space had me in tears because I was thinking it'd be like the beginning of the Snyder Cut with Superman's goofy sonic scream. 🤣
This attitude by EC really shows why most modern portrayals of villains try to force sympathy out of the audience, despite not deserving it. Alice from Batwoman, Abby from TLOU2, numerous villains from SU who act 'sorry' after the fact, while also being completely unaware of the immorality of their respective heroes, like Wonder Woman in WW84, Captain Marvel and Wanda in Wandavision.
Like what happened to the idea of a unambiguous villain archetype, who don't need some kind of rough upbringing to justify their actions? Or just a villain who has a justification but doesn't try to plead for sympathy in doing their heinous deeds? Funnily enough, ECs last controversial video would fly in the face of this one;
They want you not to play a evil faction because they have blanket stated all nazis as bad, yet simultaneously doesn't want you to consider a fictional race as evil as it being a generalization? I'm not convinced for a second EC have been consistent on any point given how long they've been at this, which almost seems deliberate given they keep creeping up.
Yeah you have a point ...... even as a su fan i can understand why
Thats why i wanna write villains like that again.
And/or find okd mefia that did the old way.... or just watch anime
I fell asleep to this again and woke up with my phone being dead
Remember, you’ve got to make sure that your players don’t make snap judgements about the enemy fictional races! But people in real life who are wearing certain uniforms? Yeah, make all the snap absolute judgments about them you want, cuz it’s probably right!
1:44:20 Fringy I love you for bringing up Skulduggery Pleasant. Loved that series as a kid, hopefully would still love it now if I read it again
The answer to the question ”what do games provide as an experience?" Escapism and fun
He played undertale once and now he's a philosopher.
I liked how Two Worlds approached the orc race. They're not good but they're wiped nearly to extinction and they are some of the last few opposing the big bad so you kinda are forced to work alongside them. Love it.
02:11:52
By this point, you guys have been going over and over the generalities thing. Keep in mind that a key feature of the cultural left's ideology is that ANY generality is cultural, and is the basis of them claiming that any inequity is based on said prejudices. Pointing out any statistic that doesn't perfect equal a proportionality can be blamed on the "people in power" by their world view.
The pit bull statistic Rags mentioned earlier would be blamed entirely on horrible owners abusing these poor poor animals.
This goes into all arguments about gender and pronouns and races. Any statement of generality is proof to them that the system reinforces it and must be fought. Equal outcomes are what they view as an end goal, not equal opportunity.
Doesn't matter if Dwarves being naturally more sturdy and resistant to poisons would yield a culture where they would take advantage of that trait. By saying they would take advantage of that trait, you've made a generality, and that is evidence of a toxic way of thinking to them.
They are the enemy of logic.