The Difference Between GOOD and BAD Supports in Season 12
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This is interesting, although i belive that some supp chellengers would go for the same play karma did at the begining. Ioki, Bizzle, Nasteey all go for that straight to mid roam after first recall in 99% of games even if no one is in sight. At the very least they would put a ward in river or , if they can, a more aggressive ward. Because jglers gank around that time or do scuttle so makes their jgler know what to do from that point
Bizzle isn't Challenger, neither is I0ki
Bizzle is ex chellenger, last year had 4 grandmaster accounts. Ioki says on his stream he hit chellenger a few times but got demoted not much later
That's katevolved.
Bizzle said the rule of thumb is to go to the pixel bush unless you have a reason not to. If your teammates are taking herald, thats a reason to go to the herald instead
Yes after the first recall, not for any recall. The first recall is totally different it is to setup vision to protect your mid laner and bot laner by the river. If it ends up being a gank or anything like that it's a bonus. I do the same if I see my mid is still on his lane
Pro tip for low elo support: After we get a baron I always type the following: "Group and siege?" And almost always get 4 or 5 pushing together to take turrets or close out the game. The question mark is crucial, I'm ASKING if this is what the team wants to do and providing a logical suggestion that 90% of players will agree with. No one wants to take orders from a low elo support. Even slightly tilted players at low elo are likely to think "yeah, that makes sense" If only 1 or 2 show up, I simply stay back after clearing a wave and wait for the next wave. Usually, it gives stragglers the time to get with us and when the see 3 of us there they realize that's where they should be. Waiting just one wave for the extra person is often the difference between a throw and a GG.
In low elo, I feel like I can't roam as support a lot because my partner at bot just can't be trusted to keep themselves alive lol. If I leave, they feed because they don't adjust their gameplay.
Well at least this video isn't telling us to tp on a minion
And yet again, the title and the video don't match.
Title: The Difference Between GOOD and BAD Supports in Season 12
Title at 36 sec: The Difference Between GOOD AND BAD ROAMING in Season 12
A support is more than just roaming. Change the clickbait title. Points are valid, but I clicked believing you were discussing champ selection. And while each sup champ roams differently, that's a completely different discussion that what you presented.
This is unironically an amazing video. Really helped me think about how to improve my roams
2:59 couldn't you argue that she's gaining info for the Aphelios on how comfortable he can get in lane and whether Ahri/Diana are coming?
jinx pushed the wave, any adc should know they can farm under tower, or even freeze for a while, especially since their support was away.
Not sure if is ok or bad but, my strategy usually is to support whomever seems to be struggling to push their wave too much or assist breaking towers, but try to be close to an ADC whom i have sinergy with (as a Thresh main) many times I've been in teams with more than one ADC.
Glad this guide exists, last time my supp went roaming, they never came back in and we lost lane since it was 1v2 xD
was your supp prehaps a bard?
Que grande Ackerman, representando en un video de skill capped!
Great vid, ill share it with my sup
Something I've said many times (I'm a gold player so not high ELO) it's better to follow a bad plan as a team than have no plan on solo players
I can already hear my adc "sup trash keeps leaving me alone to die". I know its still the right play but
Idgaf about ads LoL, they're weak and useless. Usually I only stay in bot to soak XP and when dragon is soon to be up. Those guys are delusional and ego inflated. Idk how in a role like that.
@@PureCurebyFaith As an Aphelios main, I don't blame my supports unless it's TRULY their fault. If I misplayed, it's my fault, and if my support can't save me from my own stupidity, it's now their fault.
@@ArukiTsukaru yeah I was harsh in my comment. Sorry if it made you sad 😔💧 but some ad players do need to hear that. And,, um, just to cheer u up, I think 2/3 items ADCs are useful and very strong 😊👍💧 even if their KDA isn't perfect. It's almost like a fun minigame to protect you guys for how fragile you are.
@@PureCurebyFaith Once you learn how to farm and focus on reaching powerspikes instead of trying to fight at any opportunity (when your abilities are up, idk how many times people just spam an ability to try and get damage in). The game becomes very, very, very boring, so you pay more attention to what's happening around you and since you scale with items rather than abilities, anything going wrong (that stops you from farming) would put you in agony as you are already quite weak in fights early on. It's more a projection to the abuse they received in a lot of games.
supp main turned adc main and I already feel my ego inflating after 1 year in this role. Still delusional enough to say "if i get 6 items we can win, why surrender" xD
@@ArukiTsukaru As another Aphelios Main, you took the words out of my mouth. Good luck surviving the dives when supps are roaming!
Karma did an ok. I would have just to get deep wards on their bush to entrance and maybe behind the pit. Shutting down any gank coming from that jungle for a few minutes because I also like to run Poro. Lulu happening to be there is just punishing greed by attacking her for free. You don't have to sit in lane, ward bush next to you then die to gank right after.
What I hate is she stayed for no reason. Hovering when she should be heading bot how and enjoy a ward in pixel and maybe behind pit from river side. That would still do what I'd do when also not playing it super risky now that they know she's around. Ahri had no reason to die and standing there to gank her should be a waste of time.
once subscribed for this service and i felt scammed at first, that these vides are part of the payed library!
but it just goes to show how much valuable content these guys have, shout out to Hector, that man made me a better player. bet imma sub sometime soon.
I recently started implementing this and it's an absolute game changer
went from 45% jgl winrate / 120 games to a 55% winrate / 70 games as a support in Bronze. Your guides have not helped me much thus far to be honest. Only things that did were checklists in your videos. Theyre nice to watch though.
55% Wr is still positive, that's climbing with enough games played.
Points are huge. u make them clear most of the time. comparing that low elo to challanger is well, i believe, unfair. But learning from the best helps you become better which is the actual point i believe. Hoping that something is going to happen doesn`t make it happen. I play flex at around d2 d3 avg game and solo in well.. silver gold avg game. The amount of pressure that is put on waves/ lanes comparing the 2 is huge. U can get 5-6 items in low elo insanely fast and almost always. nobody rushes to end the game. In higher rank a clunky fight/ trade/ exchange dictates the flow maybe ends the game. So pro tip for all supports follow the plays make pressure happen be the variable change the game flow don`t be the constant i coexist with somebody else on one lane maybe they`ll need me ( who knows). NO do it make something happen. ^_^ good tips thanks Skill C
Here's a situation. We got kills bot twice and I went mid to help, it turns out I didn't need to coz my mid escaped, but then with low hp he went back vs 3 and I got baited into helping. You know how that ended. My adc died and for the whole game kept whining how I shouldn't have roamed. I mean, I couldn't have known my mid was gonna be dumb and I expected to go bot afterwards instead of dying. Though despite the wins on bot, the pressure from Veigar and Soraka was high.
thanks for the info fam. im perfecting my brand and xerath supp.. S2 otw to Challe
I mean I know results based thinking is dangerous in this game but atleast this gold player is learning. U roam and die on that play you would learn hey that was bad. If they are trying to improve they would ask themselves why. Failure is good. Successful plays are good in the short term but yah. If a play works I highly suggest taking a look at your replay and trying to see did this play work because I made a smart choice or was I lucky. (I'm master) and this is what I try to do as I learn toplane in gold rn. I'm no where near perfect but reflection will go a long way. I make bad plays in low elo because I know I will get away with it often but sometime I go back to high elo and I'm trolling because I picked up bad habits XD
you would be surprised, a lot of people just never learn, and/or they think they're amazing and that it's always their team's fault even when they look at replays
@@laTeafairy nonono. just because you died doesnt mean the play was bad you couldve just played it bad mechanically or your teammate did but being there was not the wrong thing to do. So the results dont always matter
@@sleepyheartss No i agree with that. i can't remember the perspective that i was coming from but i just have a problem with so many gold/plat players because im used to like 95% of my league friends constantly shitting on like every random player about how bad they are or how its never they're fault. And then when its time to look at the replay they say shit like "maybe i should have been slightly to the right but if x player/champion was so dogshit" yada yada. Idk maybe I just have a tendency to make friends with ppl that never have good mental? idkkkk
I have to vouch for the statement about people in low ELOs making too much plays, sure their plays may not be optimal or sometimes even smart, but they do attempt to make them. Might just come across as inting when you see your jg trying to solo an objective without any vision or priority in his lanes only to get collapsed on and give away both a kill and the objective for free, but nonetheless, that was their attempt at making a play, similarly many people will attempt to make other dubious plays in low ELO and you can easily capitalize off them because just like the Ahri example in this video, the enemy ain't perfect either and will make mistakes that in turn make those dumb plays work. So yeah, there is never any shortage of plays to make in low ELO, if you can't recognize them then that's on you.
Alot of it is arrogance and ego.
I’m guilty of it, if I think this is the right play for this moment I will spam ping and commit.
If my team doesn’t comply I int for it.
I know better, but league turns me into a monster.
@@FormerGovernmentHuman ur right, hope you improve on that thats for sure '-'
league is a sport after all and you constantly see in friendly basketball and football PUGs people going for low percentage passes because of stars on their eyes and lack of situational awareness . it's part of the fun, and sometimes working with a dumb play anyways makes the difference!
Did Karma being there not mean the lulu was not able to get a deep ward off in the oppents bot jungle?
She knew mid was backing, irelia was gone (possibly walked down in vision), lee sin is missing, but dragon was taken, diana was down and rift is still up. So maybe late objective trade? This way Lulu can't get bot vision which could help her protect her team. I felt like it wasn't bad for low elo.
But then again, I am a moron when it comes to league.
He didn’t have that information when he started pathing mid, thats his issue with it.
But personally I think it was fine, nothing was being lost bot and at the very least he could ward enemy jungle on the way back bot.
@@FormerGovernmentHuman Thanks, for the info. Got a little confusion as I also remember them saying the same thing about not just walking straight bot again all the time in another video as a support.
@@BrotherHood-xh9sg I think what they are saying is that karma should have gone to herald instead because her teammates were taking herald. It doesn't matter if lulu gets bot vision because nothing is happening bot so it should not be the top priority
The problem with this is comparing it to challenger. low elo to challenger is a HUGE gap lmao. Tyler1 hit challenger in sup the fastest for a reason and he did exactly what this first karma was doing. It was literally what he said almost every game "JUST FUCKING MOVE GOOOOO" lol as a support you're free to do almost whatever to get value for your team
@@skylerfreeman1173 its not a problem, its the perfect measure to get better, you dont look at plat players to get better if ur gold or silver, I played with a grandmaster adc casually for 2 months and became a really good support as a result in comparison to playing with plat players for a year and still being a low gold player. the huge gap is literally how we get better, tyler is an animal. the point of this video is to learn to IMPROVE our roaming, because it can help us carry as supports. You can just go and be more effective, or just go and coin flip because if you died just to stop a ward on the side of the map that doesn't have an objective to fight for or any gankable situations then you kinda fucked up, it was a big ass coin flip
no matter what karma does, this guy still has something to say about her. one of the support struggles
More like "low elo struggles"...
But im a support main and he's right. This is a part of how I get better. this is a video for us to get better. she should have definitely focused obj side in the beginning roaming. Constructive criticism from any much higher elo player is worth it, regardless of whether or not they themselves have made a bad play or two.
What separates low elo from high elo players in terms of roam, is that if you roam in low elo, your adc will start feeding and go afk, blaming you. One time, my adc ported base, I was just fresh out of base full hp, so i went mid and ganked, got a kill, my adc said "oh so you're roaming now ? okay I go afk" and he went afk. Another time, I left the botlane to help my other teammates at dragon, after which my adc was left alone 1v1 against the enemy adc and died, he blamed me on why am I not with him and went afk. Another dude wanted me to be his personal assistant all game long or otherwise he'll start trolling, I had to do that cause he was the only fed one in the team, we won that game, but it wasn't pleasant.
A lot of those guides tell players to do certain things, expecting their teammates to be normal human beings, but in low elo, your teammates will be childish spoiled kids with entitlement issues. The game is way different at low elo, you always have to predict that your adc will do dumb stuff, sometimes I can't even leave my adc for 5 seconds and go deward cause he will die, you need to be able to read players properly here. I always have to ping danger 5 times before I go and deward.
This guide focuses on what a support should be doing in a decent team, but what a support should be doin in low elo to be able to carry himself is to read his teammates, know who they should help more and which ones are hopeless even if helped and focus on that. What a lot of people fail to mention in their "guides" is that getting a wardstone and a blue trinket will help you way more than going normal red trinket, cause your teammates are dumb and have no game sense, so you need to use the blue trinket to show them where the enemy is, especially late game if they try to ambush.
2 seconds into the video and I already have to comment... the reason we don't roam is not because all of us don't know how to, it's just at the lowest of elos if you try to roam they will flame and ping you to no end. I can't count the times I've tried to roam and have my team get so mad in solo queue to the point of hard throwing in protest to this seemingly foreign concept. So I don't typically leave lane until the 14 min mark unless I'm getting drake.
For real. The adc decides to 1v2 even though they could farm, when u approach the mid laner u will get pinged to the point where u are now scared that they are going to throw, when u try to help top that is literally 1hp away from dying you still get spam pinged to go away. Even worse when ur adc isn't doing a great job but now u r stuck there because u can't go anywhere or its gg
that's really on them if they disrespect the enemy botlane trying to force cs and eventually falling into 1v2
But what should she do in that moment otherwise as soaking botlane exp? Enemy botlane wasn't there, botlane is warded and Karma isn't that far away maybe could even countergank with her e movement. So my question: what should she do otherwise?
please come to brazil
why?
*Mordekaiser interfaces*
MORDKAISER ES NUMERO UNO
@@behruznikizad8483 this is a really old meme
What does "getting a timer" mean?
is diamond 4 considered low elo :) because i see alot of the gold stuff on the supports here
4:15 you are right my dives do not look like this because i have no team willing to dive. But my enemy has dives like this and i wonder why do my enemies play that much better than my team?
Let me explain to you what i mean. In all my time of playing league i have never seen a dive like this in low elo (silver - plat), but this season was the first time i got dove by 4 people and it wasn't a bad dive it was like 4 smurfs knew how to dive.
How is it possible, that my enemies do stuff like that in silver? ( i am silver 1 right now) for me personally it feels like everyone got very good at the game in s12 meanwhile me and my team got worse.
maybe you got placed vs g4 and they seem a little better than high silver
Players have gotten better because of more information like being able to watch TH-cam videos or free guides and being exposed to optimal plays or mechanics. Like the insec a couple of seasons ago was an insane/new mechanic but nowadays casual Lee Sin players know that by heart
an eye on the game history of your enemies, and youl see, midlaner picks yone (poro says newbie no games played) , 20 lost games before in a row. and then yone rules the game with 30+ kills while juking under your fontain solo vs your whole team. every fkng 2-3 game. if its not yone, its akali or irelia and lastly comes yeahsuo.. this season on EUNE looks a lot like other known Regions, where accounts shared for $ to get a boost, and you ynad your team are the lucky ones gettign into a OTP beast smashing the hell out of everyone.
How do you guys know where the jungler is? During my low elo matches, we don't try to get eyes on enemy jungler. We just wait and leash for our jungler and then go to lane. So, when I roam, it's to get any vision of the enemy jungler. And if the enemy jungler ganks top or is seen walking top, I will go throw a ward around enemy blue buff and gromp to see the next time he looks for it.
My reasoning for trying to get vision without a reason is because as long as I can see mid/top/bot lane enemies, I'm probably the only person on the team even buying red wards and I'm confident nobody is aware of camp timing, including myself. If we're doing okay bot lane and we're pushing in, undoubtedly their ADC is wanting some jungle help. So any vision I can get on screen is "the reason." The again, I never gank mid nor do I try to make plays while roaming. I just do it for vision.
Thanks for this Video helps alot for Supporter in Gold elos bc they tend to eather roam perfect and be Plat last season or just roam too much or too little this is a good guide to get an understanding when roaming is worth
anytime i try to roam top, my team loses their shit telling me to get back in my lane and babysit my adc lol
the thing is, in low elo, if you leave your adc for a second u might aswell ff
What if karma had future vision?
If only ADCs would freeze the wave and not perma push while I roam
u gotta tell them to freeze or "don't push the wave too hard im roaming" its what i do and it usually works, but id rather have 7/10 adcs listen then for only 2/10 play safe cuz they actually pay attention to the map and see that ur roaming
Meanwhile in my games, leaving my ADC for 3s so he die and start blaming everyone.
u have to learn the timer, and if you timed well and they just die its really on them, no point in arguing with them, just mute and dont let anything disrupt your focus, they're stuck there for a reason
well that lee sin jgl with that low elo gold karma is a bad example. here is why: karma was never able to catch up to this topside skirmish fast enaugh and beside highliting his own elo the narrator missplayed his ult there + risking a bad play knowing that karma isnt there anyway
you're wrong, she would've been there to shield and do damage, that fight would have absolutely been in their favor, as a support main i stand by this. you can save so many people with 1 shield even if they are at a quarter health, they almost killed 2 of them and lee could have peeled, irelia should have been there too. its absolutely worth it to try. If karma roamed top she could have single handedly won them that game. That's how we supports carry
I love how everyone in chat and talking genders the person based off the character lol.
But what about my adc that can't lane alone
you roam and come back to the lane before the wave crashes
You can almost always roam, unless it's slow pushing into the enemy team/they are pulling a freeze or their stacked wave is about to crash and they have dive threat
It means you mis-timed the roam.
@@Balloonbot and if they didn't mis-timed the roam your ad just intend and it's not your fault. Usually sups come back before wave crashes so there's not a dive. But if they move foward with no reason there's noting you can do. You can't play for them.
The worst type of support is the one who does not use his abilities at all,
I allways have to dodge the adc and the enemy support and my own support stays behind me and does nothing no attack no heal no shild i am push back in too my tower unable to farm because i get hit every single second with no help.
Ps: I play support as well and i try to poke the enemy so he can't farm but i almost never saw that kind of gameplay with my support
You're not wrong, somehow 20 gold a hit isn't enough incentive for people to actually involve themselves
the diff between a good and bad sup is the supp that takes teleport and thinks hes doing something good
The probloem in low elo is if u go for roams, ur adc will die xD
don't forget, your adc will kill you too!
That sounds like a them problem lol
Good content! Get someone decent to commentate. Had to turn off volume and use subtitles only after 1 minute.
What else should we wait for from the player with nick Ackerman than a good play? xD
i made it to diamond 4 as panth support in like a week or so but now i am struggling lol should i just play like an egirl and play enchanters and safe?
And what are you doing in gold tho?
Looks like my mind is at least master, but my mechanics are gold and I'm actually platin, because of my knowledge xD
the thumbnail felt personal
Below diamond, supports are not playing like this. Just play poke support and win
damage support players, please don't infect others with your '"playstyle'"
Lets do this
dude made this whole video cause of that one karma play LMAOOOOO jkjkjk its a good vid alll jokes
I get flamed by the adc when they die for leaving lane to help my team with objectives, even if we did snag them and got kills.
its the roam timer, usually when ur adc gets back, the wave is at ur tower and thats a perfect roam timer, you usually want to get back when the wave starts pushing beyond the middle of the lane, otherwise your adc is usually bad and don't know how to deal with roams if they take longer than expected, but usually u wanna be clean and not waste time, it's not always about getting kills, sometimes its okay to just secure obj and leave to get back to lane
so you might be asking yourself
This is so common from challenger players in low Elo to not wait for the support in that 2 Vs 5. Karma moving mid and then turning towards bot when she saw you guys already engaging without her was good play. You guys didn't wait for her! It's not on karma this.
Be "SUPPORTIVE"
💀 low elo… nobody doing anything, not making any play… but somehow theres a 10/0 top and u just lose the game
The claim that karma should have roamed top jungle to assist in a terrible 2 person all in against a 4 stacked enemy team is biased.
@ thats the enemy support
7:15 my man tried an insec without r xd
He had R and used it
Good supports: Kill opponents and teabag them.
Bad supports: Feed opponents and let enemies teabag them instead.
Bad video. Your "low elo" player got 2 kills while your "high elo" player got 0. Unfortunately this is just another example that beyond a certain point, the only thing that matters is time investment in the game and NOT skill.
😂😂😂😂
Okay but who the fuck is that "Roaming" guys?
.
1
I tell my team that all the time. they'll fight in thr jungle with no buff there or anything. I'm like why are you fighting?
Gotta get bot side vision so you don’t get wrecked when you place bot side vision.
Wait… have we BEEEN LEARNING from a gold player?????
That’s why am high Elo gold get shiz on
This video made no sense. So they got 2 kills but it was a bad play huh?
Objectives are more important then 2 kills for 600 gold (objectives can get up to 900 gold if u use them corrently and 2 or 3 objectives aswell so its generally not worth to go for kills instead of Objectices like harold or drakes
It's the consistency aspect of it. Yes, THIS time that play works out - but in most games it will not happen like that. The play relied on Ahri making an awful error. You can't play League relying on your enemies to make mistakes like Karma did in that play. Yes, you can punish mistakes as you see them happening but that was not the case in this video. Karma basically lucked out that Ahri would be so aggressive with no support on the map. She could try that again in a similar scenario next game, but if the next Ahri even pushes slightly slower or backs off just a tiny bit, then the roam is a waste of time and a ward that can be used elsewhere.
Nobody plays perfect in league so it is hard to gauge, but if you want to perform consistently you need to play thinking about the purpose of your actions, not the results that occur based on uncontrollable factors like enemy mistakes or your team knowing what to do. It's difficult to interpret and see but it is the reality of the game.
If you play with direct goals and purpose that coincides with the game at hand, you will see better results than trying to repeat plays based on the fact that it "worked last time".
anytime i try to roam top, my team loses their shit telling me to get back in my lane and babysit my adc lol