Hands down this is The most educational, no fucking around automotive channel ever! You shoot car building then you shoot car racing from car building! There's nothing more you can ask. great video @Motive DVD Highly appreciate your time and effort.
A big factor in this vid is that you are using modern tech turbo, but a big issue you didn't talk about is internal waste gates are shite and upset exhaust gas flow out compared to external gates. Also the other issue is the fact you used a lovely aftermarket twin pulse exhaust manifold compared to crap standard one. I would like to see a modern set up of modern twins (top mounts, external gates) etc. then test again.
@@demarcodraper4266 Right OEMs just make cars with twin turbo setups because they like spending more money on inferior stuff. What's been done to death is comparing apples to oranges, like two small old inefficient turbos to one large modern high performance one. Get two modern medium sized high performance turbos and try that again, see what happens then.
@@demarcodraper4266 False. Actually I wouldn't know with newer modern cars. However the reason to stay twins was for throttle modulation and the fact that you wouldn't fall of the cliff on a twin turbo set up (not twin Sequential set up) vs a single.
@@Zeiss120 Draper is right. Newer cars use twin turbo setups strictly for packaging reasons. Single turbos are always better, everything else being equal.
So what I learned is that a bigger modern turbo is better than an outdated twin turbo setup... You had to test for that? Why not try comparing it to twin gtx2860s? That would make more sense to me.
Not only are they comparing old vs new technology, but they are wrapping the pipes and turbo to benefit the single, along with fixing a blown head gasket. And if you look at the graph lower down where you really need low end power for daily driving the twins out performed the single, but no mention of that. Seems they had a predetermined outcome in mind.
holy crap, this changed my mind about going to a single. so glad you included the quarter at the end of the video, was worried you were going to leave us hanging
thanks for the comparison. I think most people just plop on a huge turbo and then regret it later when they actually want to use it in the real world. your test shows that if your do your homework and think it through you can have a better overall car for cheaper, and with reduced complexity.
Even if they were comparable in performance, the single would win out on reliability and simplicity. If you run a car hard, shit breaks. Having your shit take longer to break and be easier to fix is a huge plus.
Nice vid Andrew, Probably made a few people cry with this one lol. My only gripe would be that as you mentioned with having the single the cops won't even bother about using lube any more haha.
***** i was a HUGE fan of keeping twins, but this video literally changed my mind. Its nice to see an actual side by side comparison, providing some scientific reasoning to things ;)
FYI, heatwrap has a double bonus for production of power, hot gas flows faster and smoother and increases turbine speed, heat wrap keeps that heat in. MTU (Motoren- und Turbinen-Union) were one of the first to use this principle when they used Inconel exhaust diverters in their high speed diesel engines. Had the pleasure of working for them for a number of years on engines from 1 cylinder and 500cc NA engines to 20 cylinder common rail vee engines with 8 litres per cylinder and compound twin sequential turbo systems.
Taketora Satou When you run under 10.99 here you have to have a roll cage, racing license and some other safety equipment. You can go back and they'll boot you again for the day but eventually you get permanently banned. Usually when your speed goes over 140mph.
The big difference I see is the time between exhaust pulses. With a twin setup, only half of the cylinders feed the turbo, so the turbo slows down between pulses. If the other turbo is at a higher pressure, this pressure further decelerates the turbo. A single turbo doesn't have another turbo fighting it, and provides more consistent pressure with less lag because the time between pulses is shorter.
Great job Andrew, Now here's a challenge for you, do a back to back with nothing changed except going from a RB26 to a RB30 and once and for all shut up the RB26 fan boys who think an "all else being equal" 26 will respond better and rev quicker on the road/track than a RB30.
I'm so jealous that Aussies get Skylines and the states we're were lucky to get a 240SX with a KA24DE truck motor. Sure, we can import the RB25DET or 26DETT and the SR20DET but you're going to pay out the ass for a good one even with a 5 speed. I have always been crazy about Skylines. You can see them in California or Canada but here in the US you're going to pay close to US $80,000 for a clean R33 or R34 and you can get an R35 for that. Anyway, awesome power gains and this is probably the 20th time that I've watched this video. Great job Andrew!
I want one so bad! I would LOVE to have an R33 GTR with an RB26DETT. R33 is one of my favorite body styles. Idk what it is about them, they just do it for me.
but what would happen if you also used modern turbos in a twin setup? you cant really compare new technology to old technology like that when you create more than one variable.
This is true But we wanted to compare t to the most common turbo choise on the market, the -dash series GT2860s There is a GTX low mount but it is very big. What other current technology bolt on low mounts are there? True bolt on?
***** Fortunately in this case the GTX of the same size is no better spooling and they didn't push it to it's limits, so really it could have been a GT3582R which is the same generation as the GT2860Rs and the spool would have been about the same and the power difference would have been big as opposed to huge :)
***** There are GTX low mounts but aren't exactly bolt on and are quite large. Designed for power rather than response. Hardly anyone has used them so didn't seem like great comparison for that reason. The only car we've seen use them was impressive power wise, but response didn't really improve over normal GT2860s
This video will forever have me conflicted on which route to take, single or twin. Being that I fall into the category of bone stock base makes it a tougher choice. I want to go single as seeing it perform 1st hand and here shows its power and potential. But the stock looking engine bay, as stupid as it sounds is a high want as well. The precision turbo 6266 is looking like the go though! :) Great videos, keep them coming.
ItsCardo1987 Stock I might go small twins if you have an I6 or V6 for more low end quicker spool, unless you can do as they did and get a twin scroll manifold and turbo, which they showed worked better bc it works with your exhaust pulses to drive the turbo evenly (Google twin scroll turbo. nice read, awesome & very useful product). If you got a 4 banger, definitely single. Not enough oomph to drive 2 turbos good enough in a stock 4 banger.
Man... reading this post now.. I was an idiot of even considering keeping my stock size twins.. been on my single setup for almost a year now.. I WOULD NEVER EEEEVVVER GO BACK to twins.
The cost is the big factor in Twin vs single. You can spend more than a grand more on a twin setup. Also complexity is an issue. More pipes and need to make more space with a twin setup. However what puzzles me about the video is would the response factor be more of a result of the transmissions gear ratios? Traditionally a twin setup is more responsive because you can use two small turbos that can match a larger single when comparing the surface area of the inlet housing. I've had a MKIV supra with HKS 2835 twin kit and it was quite responsive at 750hp. Much more responsive than the ancient Greddy T88H it previously had. I sold my twin kit and the new owner used two custom EFR 58mm turbos with a larger hot side and on his Supra he managed to lay 890hp at 35psi. Comparing to how my original 2835 turbos, it's much more responsive and makes way more power. I've since put a GT42R and the car ended up making just shy of 1100hp but I since sold the car.
Our RB26 Twins vs Single Turbo Mythbusted caused and ended some arguments. Some of the arguments were down right silly while some valid questions were raised, so we put together this blog post of Frequently Asked Questions and Statements to help settle some more arguments and answer some more questions. motivedvd.com/motive/2015/07/31/rb26-twins-vs-single-mythbusted-frequently-asked-questions-and-statements/
Great video twin are good too , but you did not really got into aftermarket twin setups or custom setup there around ??? Why not there is a differences between bolt on twins and aftermarket etc twin setups b6t I guess its up to your own taste .and before anyone , keyboard , trolls etc start bashing me on this im a mechanic by trade and work on many gtr's etc so I know a fair bit
Gaz Girl Your question is answered in the video, but Go to the link and read the FAQs: motivedvd.com/motive/2015/07/31/rb26-twins-vs-single-mythbusted-frequently-asked-questions-and-statements/
***** cheers I hope one day to be in your dvd im building a e30 with s52 m3 engine turbo , I hope to see m8re euro cars in your drag battle I know there are a couple of tough euros out there
wouldn't this have been a better comparison with after market twin manifolds, elbows, and dumps and a couple of new garret gtx28 twins? instead of the 20 year old gt2860s?
When APS was still doing business in the US, they had two guys in the Las Vegas, NV area with 350Zs. One had the twin turbo set-up and the other had the single and in every quarter mile race they did at the drag way, the single always won and I assume they were both using turbos that were up-to-date to each other.
Cheers for the video, however I'm still not sold sorry. Every time you said how responsive it was you were 4000rpm minimum. I'll stick to 2530's for now.
+twentysheds ___ Stock RB26s are dead below 4000rpm anyway, let along ones with lager turbos. Plus, look at the dyne graph down low. There is no instance, revs, driving situation where the twins work better.
Very good comparison for the average joe who is considering a up grade/replacement of worn turbos. Did I miss the cost comparssion for the complete swap? I think it is important. not just the turbo cost man hours and new bits would be nice to know. Anyway I have subed and enjoy the format as always the more information is always better so keep it comming.
You should have thrown in turbo shuffle and instalation of a balance pipe in between the headers to add to the headaches....single for the win twins to the bin
Very informative, thanks! It's also the same story with Single turbo Rotaries! At first, I wondered why RX-7 drivers swapped their twins to a Single because I thought it would be more laggy and slower, but the overall increase in reliability and less complications with the old system prove to make it a more reliable car. Just a shame Rotary is a bit finicky but I still plan on owning one some day along with the R32 GTR once the V-Spec hits US shores legally. Always wanted a White one :)
I believe this is a very well done video, however there is one thing that IN MY OPINION was completely ignored. You compare the turbochargers based upon flow numbers... but you're completely ignoring the compressor maps themselves. The turbochargers are pushing 24psi? Assuming a 14.7psi Atmospheric, that's a 2.63 Pressure Ratio. At that pressure ratio, you're completely off the compressor map on the GT28's, while you're right there smack in the middle of the efficiency of the GTX3582R. As you guys know.. it's not so much the quantity of air but the quality of air that's introduced into the motor. Although not perfect, if the twins would of been GTX2867R's (much more expensive, I know, plus you'd have to use a smaller compressor housing) then they would of been much closer in comparison for compressor efficiency numbers (77-78%). Like I said.. I think this is an awesome video that obviously took a lot of time and money, but in my opinion, I believe that you skipped off on a very important variable.
Steven Johnson we wanted to compare the most popular options used by GT-R owners. Low mount dash series GT28s and medium frame single turbo. Low mount GTXs aren't exactly bolt on ( although some companies can make them bolt on) and are very uncommon in Australia. IN fact, only a couple of cars have been built with them. They are also quite large, so the power might match our single, but from what we've seen, they are less responsive than the twins we had simply due to their size. There are problem 1000 GT-Rs with "dash series' low mounts for every GT-R with GTX low mounts. Simply comparing the most commonly used options on the market. Also, we already had the low mounts on the car.
Not what the video is about but I was blown away going to a modern gt30 on my rb20, really seemed like down low lag was not different but pulled way harder and top end held high boost to redline. Next project car will be an r32-r34 gtr so great video, I swore twins would have had some advantage. Got an blown 6.1 Challenger at 497whp as well but am an RB guy at heart, nothing beats the feelin of an RB comming onto boost. NOTHING
i'm thinking about swapping out my twins for a single turbo on my e92 335xi (N54)....i saw a video of an N54 making around 900whp on stock internals!!! fu*kin crazy!
So i haven't delved into the comments completely so dont flame me if this was brought up, but this left out one HUGE thing for a weekend warrior GTR owner like myself... the cost. I am afflicted by this same decision right now but in truth for 400whp on an otherwise stock car, the cost has a lot to do with it. I imagine just that manifold, wastegate, and turbo setup alone cost you more than the twins. Add in all the fab work, extra tuning gear (going to MAP), and the other small things to complete the single swap, what did the cost comparison look like? Awesome video and thank you for keeping an r32 instead of moving to the r34 like most everyone else. True Godzilla FTW!!!
Brandon Martin You would be surprised how expensive that it isn't. If your GT-R already has dump pipes and exhaust, then yes, switching to twins is cheapest. However if you start with a dead stock car, the price is lucky to be $1000USD different. For example. Dump pipes and front pipes on twins cost more than dump pipe on single Twin filters and intake adaptors cost more on twins than on single By the time you port match stock manifolds, the 6Boost is only about $1000USD more. Labour to re-fit twins isn't really any more than doing a single installation. the twins themselves, obviously there is two of them, aren;t much cheaper than the single. If you have to replace the lines on your twins set up ( often have to as factory breaks when removing) then installing lines on single doesn't cost more. You need to tune the car either way, and to make the most of either se-tup you need injectors, fuel system etc. So really, cost isn't much different when you have same support gear added to a stock car. Also, we showed price as a pro for twins and a con for single in the video, so we did address that issue. Glad you liked the video
Brandon Martin Our RB26 Twins vs Single Turbo Mythbusted caused and ended some arguments. Some of the arguments were down right silly while some valid questions were raised, so we put together this blog post of Frequently Asked Questions and Statements to help settle some more arguments and answer some more questions. motivedvd.com/motive/2015/07/31/rb26-twins-vs-single-mythbusted-frequently-asked-questions-and-statements/
that is absolutely incredible!!!! INSANE even!!! i will certainly watch out for it. I have always read that the RB pistons and bottom end can't handle much in stock form compared to its rival the 2jz this is why i am shocked at your figures
we learn everyday! But what fuel are they running? 98? I am saving up for a 32 myself hence i am learning as much as i can about the car, its capabilities etc etc
if you want to make big power on stock bottom end you don't use 98. In, fact any big powered car you don't use 98. Once you go E85 you never go back. Simply no comparison on a turbo car.
I know in the video you guys used a 1.01 housing, my question is would a 1.06 housing be a crazy difference or would there be more lag? Or would there be no difference? Awesome video guys, now I’m gonna go for a set up like this.
+Sean Price VW TFSI engines are twin charged from the factory. It is worth it on 4 cylinder engines since they miss the smooth torque a 6 ( or more ) cylinder has.
138, she picked up some power. Just need to get a real 60 foot to get a proper number out of it. Even though I know the singles are more efficient, I have run a ton of different setups on RB's. I still like a nice twin setup. Do you remember the silver R32 that I ran with the 2.8, GT-RS, and Getrag? That was a fun car.
Potato comparison for so many reasons ... Title should be called stock twin vs *twin scroll* GTX35. Its scary how many people spread false information online. For the love of god you probably out of map choke lined the twins on 2.6 PR.
Great video Andrew, very impressive figures on the gtx, I would imagine the outcome would be the same on a big single vs big top mount twins as alot of the big power rb's in Japan still seem to run top mount twins
Garage12 the argument gets a bit different on big twins and really big singles as its more about airflow and hp than response. But to us, the packaging problems of twins makes a single a much better option. If you think low mount twins are tight, high mounts are even worse as you have to fit two giant dump pipes and intakes etc
Top flick! Made my morning coffee far more informative - my love the Mine's 34 set up one day hangs by a thread! I wonder if they could be convinced! Japan investigation tour? Count me in.
JDM033files The Mines R34 is an amazing car, but was built nearly 10 years a go. If you watch our "6-speed install" video on our channel it actually explains the "secret" to the Mins car :) Many minds have been blown by it.
Great Video, it's always a pleasure to watch your videos. I've learned a lot watching them. I hope i can reach such nice results on my own R32 GT-R which i just got on the streets here in germany! It's a hard process to get these cars legal for the german roads. Please keep doing the Videos about the R32!!! And i got a question to end my comment: What would u think about a Top-Mount-Twin-Turbo-Setup? I Think u could use some new-technology turbos there, couldn't you?
Once u start talking high mount twins its a different argument. The record holding cars pretty much all use singles and most time attack cars use singles. We prefer single in big hp applications for packaging and manifold design reasons
mickydee26 It's not really a bolt on affair and we wanted to test popular options that lots of people can relate to. So far I now of one GT-R with twin GTXs, and the results aren't anything to get excited about.
lathiat It is very hard to explain and show the "fun factor" and drivability. So many people concentrate on numbers or data, but sometimes how fun the car is needs more emphasis.
Another great video! Love the R32 GTR series you have done. Makes me feel better about my 2.75L stroker RB26 and BW 8374 EFR R32 project. Can you please tell me what boost and fuel you were on during your ride through the twisty's (low and high?). Looked like quite the difference between the two. Just trying to get an idea of my car's estimated performance. THANKS!
Patrick Harris All on E70. Until we turned up boost it was on 14psi and 330kW @ wheels. Its quite lazy on that too as the boot controller is essentially off, so wastage creeps open
I'm jealous of the AWD . My FWD Saab900 has wicked torch steer when high boost kicks on. I can't get her to hookup with more then 350hp.That IL6 has little to no lag. My IL4 with a big custom Garret has an embarrassing two second lag, The top end makes up for it. The mid track boost gets her in the 10's in the quarter mile.
I had a mate that had an R33 25t with a GT35 (old tech). Fitting a 6boost manifold made a MASSIVE difference to the car. I would attribute a lot (but not all) of the gains you've seen to that.
got mine due back to me soon.. 2860-5 tubs Tomei ponscams and 87mm mahle pistons and Manley rods. all the supporting goodies like osg clutch and link g4 ecu with 4bar map. be interesting to see how it goes. I've had a 33 gtst woth gt3076r top Mount tub in the past and I can vouch for the response on it.. it was hilarious good fun and the sound was incredible.. altho i ran plumbed in wgate as i fricking hate screamer. the video is on my channel. I chose twins this time simply because I wanted to restore this 32gtr and have it look stock really. still looking fwd to it :)
I think it would be cool if you guys redo this video with the new garret G-series turbos. Like twin G25s vs single G45. I wonder what the response would be like.
I'd like to see you guys do a multi vs single throttle comparison for RB26 a lot of people say the ITB's respond better but some shops say singles will respond better.
Sounds good, most people say they did ITB's just to make the RB26 unique rather than a performance feature. What's your experience been with the RB26 intake setups?
+V LT ITBS is about response. The volume of air between the throttles and engine is very small so when you open the throttle the response is improved over having a single throttle in front of a plenum. Essentially, it is a high end racing item but on a factory car. Modern turbos though, are much improved from 1990s, so its not a big as a deal. We are looking at doing a single throttle vs multi throttle Mythbuster video in the future on this car.
But on a Turbo car does it really do anything as the majority of the engines power once at normal cruising speeds comes from the turbos and the turbos will take longer to spool than any sort of perceived response the ITB's can give is my take on it. Some even call the ITB's on Rb26's restrictive, others argue it's all about circuit work to give precise throttle control. by driving my 26 I'd never tell it has ITB's, I only know on idle the throttle is quite touchy but that's about it. There must be some reason to it I guess I'd like to find out some real testing to see what it shows
Would of liked you guys to explain the importance of getting the car retuned when work has been done on the engine to those people out there that don't know this.
MrIamChosen Not necessarily re-truned, but at least checked. Our tuner told us after removing the head and putting it back together it was running just fine. Obviously some tweaking was needed, but we always check our cars on the dyne after any changes/upgrades etc
My flagrant use of hindsight not withstanding and the full capitulation that there's no argument against the simplicity of a single top mount, I still have room for protest. Comparing a (2015) modern GT35 twin scroll setup to antiquated internal wastegate T28s is not even close to an apples to apples match up. in 2018 we built an RB26 with stock crank, forged rods and pistons, and full Tomei valve train for my brother's R32. We also used the stock intake and bottom mount GTX2867Rs to preserve the illusion its stock "ish" enough. Tuning was done on a Link G4 and those little T28s seriously shocked the hell out of us. It's making 520kw running e85, and as you can imagine the bottom end is WAY more stout than any GT35 configuration. Not even a GTX3576r can match their bottom end performance, and although you might make that kind of top end power by jumping to a T4 1.1 A/R frame, you'd completely piss away your bottom end to do it. Fact is I have no idea how they do it, but with a small Gen II Billet GTX2867R your SR20 can make *400kw* and scroll up like a T25. That's not just a notch up for the legendary disco potato mates, its kicking it up into a whole new WTF is going on level. Pretty sure there's some kind of voodoo magic alien reverse engineering shit going on at the Garrett lab. I haven't been playing with boost all that long but it seems only a short time ago we were patting ourselves on the back for squeezing a respectable 350kw out of an SR with a T3 GT3071r... Hell, I remember thinking crazy lag was a necessary evil to get all the GT30's power to come on all of a sudden @ 4500rpm... ah the good old days. Now I ask ya boys, what's the world coming to if a little new fangled turbo can make 400kw? I don't know either, but I'm looking forward to finding out. ;o)
i was just thinking about this and low and behold you upload a vid answering every question i had in my head. i was thinking more a GTX3076 and prob around the 20psi mark on a low mount manifold. what do you think this would net?
Now put on high mount twins with a custom manifold and see how it fares for a true single vs twin test. Stock manifolds are always going to lose against new tech turbo's. Put on an old tech turbo for a fairer comparison with the equivalent amount of air displacement as the twins you removed.
I'm sorry I don't ,mean to offend, but in the first few mins of this, you can tell you're a bit biased towards the single, maybe a peer reviewed version would help? The fact it was not boosted with the single from 2500rpm or thereabouts to see it come on from down low was a bit of a shame too. I used to run a white 34GTR full street car up in QLD and held the fastest street circuit GTR lap record for 2 years including beating modified R35's too. I ran GTX2863 hybrid -5's. I know the proper GTX's were a little better, but either way I ran a respectable 489kwatw, for a circuit/street car it was a blast. Now to defend the claim, I would have loved to go a single for one reason alone, lower PSI for less combustion heat. I was runing at 33psi on the twins and heat was always an issue, especially coolant heat and the intake heat temps were soaring, you can inter-cool only to an extent and keeping coolant temps down was a challenge, with a single I could have had the same power with at-least 5psi less which would have helped immensely with intake temps that compounds combustion temps. The other factor would have been heat front he twins and how much pipe work was radiating heat into my engine bay. I have seen great results from single these days and if I was to do it, a VCT head with a GTX single would be my choice, on 30 bottom end too would see huge potential in the linear power delivery which is always needed with circuit cars. Keeping cam shaft overlap profiles not far from standard but with a big lift is key to down low power and a linear power band, far too many times do I see 272 degree cams and people complaining of lag and a non linear power band. Good review Andrew, I just though you were a bit biased right from the get go, although these days, i do tend to agree with a single now for a number of reasons. Wait for the Magnetti Marelli E turbo's that are about to hit the tuner scene, all of this will be irrelevant soon, huge singles like a GTX45R on a RB28 with no lag at all will all be here soon, the next 5 years of development in turbo tech to the masses is about to explode.
It has a 6-speed Getrag gearbox from R34 but with 4.1 diff ratio instead of 3.55. Our last video on the car shows the swap and results. It's the reason the Mines R34 looks so fast as well. It used 4.6s at one stage!
Excellent video! I am doing a build on my BMW N54 335xi and was searching videos about the GTX3582R Gen 2 and found myself here. My current build is going to use that turbo with T04 1.06 a/r and is going from small twins. I have been hearing people say that singles suck to drive and turbo lag is bad with a single. My tuner reassured me that single is the way to go. Sometimes you feel like people are just trying to sell you but after this video I cant wait to have my car running soon. That RB26 just rips! Also I like that beat at 21:00 minutes anyone know what it is?
But the real question - Will it fit my Honda?
Mighty Car Mods Your Honda? You've never had a Honda? We've told you to stay away from that bog Moog you electric space wizard. :P
Mighty Car Mods What's a Honda?
Mighty Car Mods in my Honda Fit?
***** Wait... WHAT Honda? Moog stop smoking weed, it was just a bad nightmare!
Mighty Car Mods It's a Subaru bolt-on. You've obviously got the wrong car.
Reasons for illegal mods:
Easier to see/fix leaks, officer
Reasons you still get a ticket:
It's illegal.
Tuvzii You still can do mods,here you can't do mods at all.
Andrea Where are you approximately ?
Come to NZ. As long as mod is done by a professional (and it's not outright dangerous), you can basically do anything you want.
@@Billy_The_Dog I like that
Great video Andrew! The in-depth coverage and your know how on the subject really make this production a stand out.
In Australia they get "GDR's".
nomellocreampig ‘GDAHS’
GeeDeeAaahs
Im not a GTR guy but this video was BADASS and so is that GTR.
+Toyota4Life Yup. I'm sure all this twin-to-single technique is adaptable to the non-VVTi JZ family as well ;)
+Nick Amarit im not an r35 guy maby on a goof day i can enjoy a 34 but the best are the 33s and 32s there just oozing with cool
@@ryanrohauer5940 I feel the same
Hands down this is The most educational, no fucking around automotive channel ever!
You shoot car building then you shoot car racing from car building! There's nothing more you can ask. great video @Motive DVD
Highly appreciate your time and effort.
Thanks! We take pride in making sure our information is accurate and we modify our cars to go faster so we can help other people.
One of the best RB26 modification videos i have seen ever! Very good job!!!! Great Video!
Maintaining the system is the biggest factor that I run single. Good video!
A big factor in this vid is that you are using modern tech turbo, but a big issue you didn't talk about is internal waste gates are shite and upset exhaust gas flow out compared to external gates. Also the other issue is the fact you used a lovely aftermarket twin pulse exhaust manifold compared to crap standard one. I would like to see a modern set up of modern twins (top mounts, external gates) etc. then test again.
This has been done to death a properly sized single will always be more efficient than twins.
Electronic external waste gates have now been released so yer 3 years later and internal wastegate are defiantly not worth using if you can afford it
@@demarcodraper4266 Right OEMs just make cars with twin turbo setups because they like spending more money on inferior stuff.
What's been done to death is comparing apples to oranges, like two small old inefficient turbos to one large modern high performance one. Get two modern medium sized high performance turbos and try that again, see what happens then.
@@demarcodraper4266 False. Actually I wouldn't know with newer modern cars. However the reason to stay twins was for throttle modulation and the fact that you wouldn't fall of the cliff on a twin turbo set up (not twin Sequential set up) vs a single.
@@Zeiss120 Draper is right. Newer cars use twin turbo setups strictly for packaging reasons. Single turbos are always better, everything else being equal.
So what I learned is that a bigger modern turbo is better than an outdated twin turbo setup... You had to test for that? Why not try comparing it to twin gtx2860s? That would make more sense to me.
Not only are they comparing old vs new technology, but they are wrapping the pipes and turbo to benefit the single, along with fixing a blown head gasket. And if you look at the graph lower down where you really need low end power for daily driving the twins out performed the single, but no mention of that. Seems they had a predetermined outcome in mind.
Nail on head. Test was a joke.
Or GT2530s
holy crap, this changed my mind about going to a single. so glad you included the quarter at the end of the video, was worried you were going to leave us hanging
thanks for the comparison. I think most people just plop on a huge turbo and then regret it later when they actually want to use it in the real world. your test shows that if your do your homework and think it through you can have a better overall car for cheaper, and with reduced complexity.
Even if they were comparable in performance, the single would win out on reliability and simplicity. If you run a car hard, shit breaks. Having your shit take longer to break and be easier to fix is a huge plus.
That car's B.O.V. sounds EXACTLY like a girl I used to know when she sneezed.
Nice vid Andrew, Probably made a few people cry with this one lol. My only gripe would be that as you mentioned with having the single the cops won't even bother about using lube any more haha.
CannonShane Some people have gotten upset, yes.
***** i was a HUGE fan of keeping twins, but this video literally changed my mind. Its nice to see an actual side by side comparison, providing some scientific reasoning to things ;)
Good video guys. This video was spot on as I never knew the difference between a single and a twin turbo set up on a GTR.
Love the video! Thanks for putting in the time to do the job right. Now I have to think about replacing my GT2860r-5s on my RB26! Bastard!
+GTRBacon You running a single turbo now?
Caelum Hagen No
FYI, heatwrap has a double bonus for production of power, hot gas flows faster and smoother and increases turbine speed, heat wrap keeps that heat in. MTU (Motoren- und Turbinen-Union) were one of the first to use this principle when they used Inconel exhaust diverters in their high speed diesel engines. Had the pleasure of working for them for a number of years on engines from 1 cylinder and 500cc NA engines to 20 cylinder common rail vee engines with 8 litres per cylinder and compound twin sequential turbo systems.
Andrew...Why aren't you a host on Top Gear?!?
Ha ha. Im not grumpy enough for UK one and I talk too fast for American TV! But thanks
***** I missed what the guy said how come you got kicked from drags? I'm not familiar with them from NZ
Taketora Satou When you run under 10.99 here you have to have a roll cage, racing license and some other safety equipment. You can go back and they'll boot you again for the day but eventually you get permanently banned. Usually when your speed goes over 140mph.
@@MotiveVideo werent u on another youtube channel? i cant find those old videos about wastegates and turbos...what was that channel name??
nice andrew,seems super responsive on the strip. literally no lag at all.
The big difference I see is the time between exhaust pulses. With a twin setup, only half of the cylinders feed the turbo, so the turbo slows down between pulses. If the other turbo is at a higher pressure, this pressure further decelerates the turbo. A single turbo doesn't have another turbo fighting it, and provides more consistent pressure with less lag because the time between pulses is shorter.
This video is killer, Keep up the good work. Looking forward to the next motive garage Gtr video. Lots of usable info I can apply to the rb20
Great job Andrew, Now here's a challenge for you, do a back to back with nothing changed except going from a RB26 to a RB30 and once and for all shut up the RB26 fan boys who think an "all else being equal" 26 will respond better and rev quicker on the road/track than a RB30.
If i can get a good RB30 at a good price I just might ;)
Will push standard engine to destruction then build but keep same support gear.
***** Nitrous next.
RIPSNZ Would love to see this.
***** We're listening.......
RIPSNZ And use GTS-4 Diff's :D
just gota say Andrew.. this is a seriously good and informative video u guys don't fuc around aye s8 to the point!! that car is.. mental!
I'm so jealous that Aussies get Skylines and the states we're were lucky to get a 240SX with a KA24DE truck motor. Sure, we can import the RB25DET or 26DETT and the SR20DET but you're going to pay out the ass for a good one even with a 5 speed. I have always been crazy about Skylines. You can see them in California or Canada but here in the US you're going to pay close to US $80,000 for a clean R33 or R34 and you can get an R35 for that. Anyway, awesome power gains and this is probably the 20th time that I've watched this video. Great job Andrew!
+Robert Keeton r34 skylines are worth megabucks the world over, even here in nz
+Robert Keeton Over here in Japan R32 and r33 sell for nearly 10-12k. But to import it anywhere is what kills budgets.
+Robert Keeton r32 gars are pretty cheap here in the states since they're legal
+Robert Keeton where you not informed that they are now old enough to import to the US? xP
I'm gonna be keeping my 31 thats for sure.
I want one so bad! I would LOVE to have an R33 GTR with an RB26DETT. R33 is one of my favorite body styles. Idk what it is about them, they just do it for me.
I'd like to see an updated version of this test with newer turbos. How about a pair of EFR 6258s vs a single EFR 8374?
Sweet slow-mo launches! You can really see the ATTESA at work...
Absolutely amazing footage and work, congratulations guy, that was cool to watch. Thank you.
but what would happen if you also used modern turbos in a twin setup? you cant really compare new technology to old technology like that when you create more than one variable.
This is true
But we wanted to compare t to the most common turbo choise on the market, the -dash series GT2860s
There is a GTX low mount but it is very big.
What other current technology bolt on low mounts are there? True bolt on?
***** Fortunately in this case the GTX of the same size is no better spooling and they didn't push it to it's limits, so really it could have been a GT3582R which is the same generation as the GT2860Rs and the spool would have been about the same and the power difference would have been big as opposed to huge :)
***** Borg Warner turbos for exemple
***** There are GTX low mounts but aren't exactly bolt on and are quite large. Designed for power rather than response. Hardly anyone has used them so didn't seem like great comparison for that reason. The only car we've seen use them was impressive power wise, but response didn't really improve over normal GT2860s
i will soon find out, i fitted 2 borg warner efr 6258 on my mitsubishi 3000/stealth
Mighty Car Mods brought me here and I subscribed. Awesome videos!
This video will forever have me conflicted on which route to take, single or twin. Being that I fall into the category of bone stock base makes it a tougher choice. I want to go single as seeing it perform 1st hand and here shows its power and potential. But the stock looking engine bay, as stupid as it sounds is a high want as well. The precision turbo 6266 is looking like the go though! :) Great videos, keep them coming.
ItsCardo1987 Stock I might go small twins if you have an I6 or V6 for more low end quicker spool, unless you can do as they did and get a twin scroll manifold and turbo, which they showed worked better bc it works with your exhaust pulses to drive the turbo evenly (Google twin scroll turbo. nice read, awesome & very useful product). If you got a 4 banger, definitely single. Not enough oomph to drive 2 turbos good enough in a stock 4 banger.
Man... reading this post now.. I was an idiot of even considering keeping my stock size twins.. been on my single setup for almost a year now.. I WOULD NEVER EEEEVVVER GO BACK to twins.
Cardo_GTR twin
The cost is the big factor in Twin vs single. You can spend more than a grand more on a twin setup. Also complexity is an issue. More pipes and need to make more space with a twin setup.
However what puzzles me about the video is would the response factor be more of a result of the transmissions gear ratios? Traditionally a twin setup is more responsive because you can use two small turbos that can match a larger single when comparing the surface area of the inlet housing.
I've had a MKIV supra with HKS 2835 twin kit and it was quite responsive at 750hp. Much more responsive than the ancient Greddy T88H it previously had. I sold my twin kit and the new owner used two custom EFR 58mm turbos with a larger hot side and on his Supra he managed to lay 890hp at 35psi. Comparing to how my original 2835 turbos, it's much more responsive and makes way more power. I've since put a GT42R and the car ended up making just shy of 1100hp but I since sold the car.
Cardo_GTR rrdr4rrde3
mighty car mods brought me here. Great work man !! awesome video
mighty car mods royal nasho 21:56
hell yea!
Thanks to Mighty Car Mods for pointing me to this video. I was actually considering this debate!
Our RB26 Twins vs Single Turbo Mythbusted caused and ended some arguments. Some of the arguments were down right silly while some valid questions were raised, so we put together this blog post of Frequently Asked Questions and Statements to help settle some more arguments and answer some more questions.
motivedvd.com/motive/2015/07/31/rb26-twins-vs-single-mythbusted-frequently-asked-questions-and-statements/
Great video twin are good too , but you did not really got into aftermarket twin setups or custom setup there around ??? Why not there is a differences between bolt on twins and aftermarket etc twin setups b6t I guess its up to your own taste .and before anyone , keyboard , trolls etc start bashing me on this im a mechanic by trade and work on many gtr's etc so I know a fair bit
Gaz Girl Your question is answered in the video, but Go to the link and read the FAQs: motivedvd.com/motive/2015/07/31/rb26-twins-vs-single-mythbusted-frequently-asked-questions-and-statements/
***** cheers I hope one day to be in your dvd im building a e30 with s52 m3 engine turbo , I hope to see m8re euro cars in your drag battle I know there are a couple of tough euros out there
wouldn't this have been a better comparison with after market twin manifolds, elbows, and dumps and a couple of new garret gtx28 twins? instead of the 20 year old gt2860s?
Adam Benderman no. please re watch video and understand why
When APS was still doing business in the US, they had two guys in the Las Vegas, NV area with 350Zs. One had the twin turbo set-up and the other had the single and in every quarter mile race they did at the drag way, the single always won and I assume they were both using turbos that were up-to-date to each other.
Awesome comparison and solid solid arguments. Watch the pro-TT peeps try to poke holes in this.
This video was very fun to watch!! Awesome job gentlemen!
Wait a minute wait a minute hold on... That's the guy from MCM that drifted the hell out of that S13 they built!
Extreemly Informative video Andrew. Really appreciate the time and detail you have put in to this video
Cheers for the video, however I'm still not sold sorry. Every time you said how responsive it was you were 4000rpm minimum. I'll stick to 2530's for now.
+twentysheds ___ Stock RB26s are dead below 4000rpm anyway, let along ones with lager turbos. Plus, look at the dyne graph down low. There is no instance, revs, driving situation where the twins work better.
Very good comparison for the average joe who is considering a up grade/replacement of worn turbos. Did I miss the cost comparssion for the complete swap? I think it is important. not just the turbo cost man hours and new bits would be nice to know.
Anyway I have subed and enjoy the format as always the more information is always better so keep it comming.
@10:55 The guy speaking says "longetivity"
Longevity is the word I believe he was looking for. lol.
I was looking for your comment. Noticed that also. OCD bretherin.
No he's correct longetivity is an old rare form of longevity long-life grammarist.com/usage/longetivity-longevity/
enough with all this negavity.
You should have thrown in turbo shuffle and instalation of a balance pipe in between the headers to add to the headaches....single for the win twins to the bin
Can you guys do a a modern twin turbo set ups and compare it to the single you are running right now ?
6miz22miz this. this needs to be done.
6miz22miz It's simply a budget and time issue. We would love to do all the comparisons possible but at the end of the day, someone has to pay for it.
***** i understand would be nice if you could tho
Very informative, thanks! It's also the same story with Single turbo Rotaries! At first, I wondered why RX-7 drivers swapped their twins to a Single because I thought it would be more laggy and slower, but the overall increase in reliability and less complications with the old system prove to make it a more reliable car. Just a shame Rotary is a bit finicky but I still plan on owning one some day along with the R32 GTR once the V-Spec hits US shores legally. Always wanted a White one :)
I believe this is a very well done video, however there is one thing that IN MY OPINION was completely ignored.
You compare the turbochargers based upon flow numbers... but you're completely ignoring the compressor maps themselves. The turbochargers are pushing 24psi? Assuming a 14.7psi Atmospheric, that's a 2.63 Pressure Ratio.
At that pressure ratio, you're completely off the compressor map on the GT28's, while you're right there smack in the middle of the efficiency of the GTX3582R.
As you guys know.. it's not so much the quantity of air but the quality of air that's introduced into the motor.
Although not perfect, if the twins would of been GTX2867R's (much more expensive, I know, plus you'd have to use a smaller compressor housing) then they would of been much closer in comparison for compressor efficiency numbers (77-78%).
Like I said.. I think this is an awesome video that obviously took a lot of time and money, but in my opinion, I believe that you skipped off on a very important variable.
Steven Johnson we wanted to compare the most popular options used by GT-R owners. Low mount dash series GT28s and medium frame single turbo.
Low mount GTXs aren't exactly bolt on ( although some companies can make them bolt on) and are very uncommon in Australia. IN fact, only a couple of cars have been built with them. They are also quite large, so the power might match our single, but from what we've seen, they are less responsive than the twins we had simply due to their size.
There are problem 1000 GT-Rs with "dash series' low mounts for every GT-R with GTX low mounts. Simply comparing the most commonly used options on the market. Also, we already had the low mounts on the car.
Not what the video is about but I was blown away going to a modern gt30 on my rb20, really seemed like down low lag was not different but pulled way harder and top end held high boost to redline. Next project car will be an r32-r34 gtr so great video, I swore twins would have had some advantage. Got an blown 6.1 Challenger at 497whp as well but am an RB guy at heart, nothing beats the feelin of an RB comming onto boost. NOTHING
i'm thinking about swapping out my twins for a single turbo on my e92 335xi (N54)....i saw a video of an N54 making around 900whp on stock internals!!! fu*kin crazy!
me too lol
Me too
So i haven't delved into the comments completely so dont flame me if this was brought up, but this left out one HUGE thing for a weekend warrior GTR owner like myself... the cost. I am afflicted by this same decision right now but in truth for 400whp on an otherwise stock car, the cost has a lot to do with it. I imagine just that manifold, wastegate, and turbo setup alone cost you more than the twins. Add in all the fab work, extra tuning gear (going to MAP), and the other small things to complete the single swap, what did the cost comparison look like? Awesome video and thank you for keeping an r32 instead of moving to the r34 like most everyone else. True Godzilla FTW!!!
Brandon Martin
You would be surprised how expensive that it isn't.
If your GT-R already has dump pipes and exhaust, then yes, switching to twins is cheapest. However if you start with a dead stock car, the price is lucky to be $1000USD different.
For example.
Dump pipes and front pipes on twins cost more than dump pipe on single
Twin filters and intake adaptors cost more on twins than on single
By the time you port match stock manifolds, the 6Boost is only about $1000USD more.
Labour to re-fit twins isn't really any more than doing a single installation.
the twins themselves, obviously there is two of them, aren;t much cheaper than the single.
If you have to replace the lines on your twins set up ( often have to as factory breaks when removing) then installing lines on single doesn't cost more.
You need to tune the car either way, and to make the most of either se-tup you need injectors, fuel system etc.
So really, cost isn't much different when you have same support gear added to a stock car.
Also, we showed price as a pro for twins and a con for single in the video, so we did address that issue.
Glad you liked the video
Brandon Martin Our RB26 Twins vs Single Turbo Mythbusted caused and ended some arguments. Some of the arguments were down right silly while some valid questions were raised, so we put together this blog post of Frequently Asked Questions and Statements to help settle some more arguments and answer some more questions.
motivedvd.com/motive/2015/07/31/rb26-twins-vs-single-mythbusted-frequently-asked-questions-and-statements/
incredibly informative!!! 400+wkw on stock internals is that right???? tell the truth man! What fuel are you running in it?
Actually, it makes 500KW on stock bottom end now. have to watch the latest video on the car :)
that is absolutely incredible!!!! INSANE even!!! i will certainly watch out for it. I have always read that the RB pistons and bottom end can't handle much in stock form compared to its rival the 2jz this is why i am shocked at your figures
there is quite a few stock bottom end RB26s in Oz pushing big power
we learn everyday! But what fuel are they running? 98? I am saving up for a 32 myself hence i am learning as much as i can about the car, its capabilities etc etc
if you want to make big power on stock bottom end you don't use 98. In, fact any big powered car you don't use 98. Once you go E85 you never go back. Simply no comparison on a turbo car.
Another great video. No idea how you only have 63k subscribers
so what is better twin or single?
single all the way
Great video like always! Keep it up guys
fucking awesome video.....................and I usually HATE nissans....and love the peelout at the end.
I know in the video you guys used a 1.01 housing, my question is would a 1.06 housing be a crazy difference or would there be more lag? Or would there be no difference? Awesome video guys, now I’m gonna go for a set up like this.
A little more proof for everyone: th-cam.com/video/35UeUhGGy00/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=MotiveDVD
+TeensierPython - we did show that. Also see it drive normally in some other videos on our channel
+Sean Price if twin charging was worth the effort, a lot more people would do it
+Sean Price modern turbos are good enough that the weight, complexity and cost of twin charging doesn't make sense most of the time
+Sean Price VW TFSI engines are twin charged from the factory. It is worth it on 4 cylinder engines since they miss the smooth torque a 6 ( or more ) cylinder has.
138, she picked up some power. Just need to get a real 60 foot to get a proper number out of it. Even though I know the singles are more efficient, I have run a ton of different setups on RB's. I still like a nice twin setup. Do you remember the silver R32 that I ran with the 2.8, GT-RS, and Getrag? That was a fun car.
importavehicle.com i remember. Getrag is the bomb! Planning on borrowing some drag radials soon....
Obi-Nissan Kenobi!!!
Awesome video. Kept me entertained right to the end.
Potato comparison for so many reasons ... Title should be called stock twin vs *twin scroll* GTX35. Its scary how many people spread false information online.
For the love of god you probably out of map choke lined the twins on 2.6 PR.
Its a single turbo. Get over it.
@@ngt84 twin scroll is a new thing meaning its basicaly a turbo working as two
Great video Andrew, very impressive figures on the gtx, I would imagine the outcome would be the same on a big single vs big top mount twins as alot of the big power rb's in Japan still seem to run top mount twins
Garage12 the argument gets a bit different on big twins and really big singles as its more about airflow and hp than response. But to us, the packaging problems of twins makes a single a much better option. If you think low mount twins are tight, high mounts are even worse as you have to fit two giant dump pipes and intakes etc
Thank you motive for such a great comparison. Hands down one of the best car channels on youtube.
Top flick! Made my morning coffee far more informative - my love the Mine's 34 set up one day hangs by a thread! I wonder if they could be convinced! Japan investigation tour? Count me in.
JDM033files The Mines R34 is an amazing car, but was built nearly 10 years a go. If you watch our "6-speed install" video on our channel it actually explains the "secret" to the Mins car :) Many minds have been blown by it.
***** Done - morning video selected! Thanks bloke!
besides the AMS r35 and RIPS 240z - this has got to be one of the coolest Nissans ive seen thus far!
Great Video, it's always a pleasure to watch your videos. I've learned a lot watching them. I hope i can reach such nice results on my own R32 GT-R which i just got on the streets here in germany! It's a hard process to get these cars legal for the german roads. Please keep doing the Videos about the R32!!! And i got a question to end my comment: What would u think about a Top-Mount-Twin-Turbo-Setup? I Think u could use some new-technology turbos there, couldn't you?
Once u start talking high mount twins its a different argument. The record holding cars pretty much all use singles and most time attack cars use singles.
We prefer single in big hp applications for packaging and manifold design reasons
German_Godzilla There is a GTX upgrade available for low mount -5's. Probably for other low mounts too.
mickydee26 It's not really a bolt on affair and we wanted to test popular options that lots of people can relate to. So far I now of one GT-R with twin GTXs, and the results aren't anything to get excited about.
Love it Andrew! This argument should well and truly be put to bed now!
It is for us, but we've seen some odd arguments!
The road test at 16m is amazing, would love to see more content like this. Very good feel for performance over the constraints of video.
lathiat It is very hard to explain and show the "fun factor" and drivability. So many people concentrate on numbers or data, but sometimes how fun the car is needs more emphasis.
***** Absolutely, despite that you smashed it out of the park in this video.
Great video, I've been using a single T51 Kai for years, huge power on boost! Single 1 Twins 0
Another great video! Love the R32 GTR series you have done.
Makes me feel better about my 2.75L stroker RB26 and BW 8374 EFR R32 project. Can you please tell me what boost and fuel you were on during your ride through the twisty's (low and high?). Looked like quite the difference between the two. Just trying to get an idea of my car's estimated performance. THANKS!
Patrick Harris All on E70. Until we turned up boost it was on 14psi and 330kW @ wheels. Its quite lazy on that too as the boot controller is essentially off, so wastage creeps open
I'm jealous of the AWD . My FWD Saab900 has wicked torch steer when high boost kicks on. I can't get her to hookup with more then 350hp.That IL6 has little to no lag. My IL4 with a big custom Garret has an embarrassing two second lag, The top end makes up for it. The mid track boost gets her in the 10's in the quarter mile.
I had a mate that had an R33 25t with a GT35 (old tech). Fitting a 6boost manifold made a MASSIVE difference to the car. I would attribute a lot (but not all) of the gains you've seen to that.
love the part where you are pushing it around the streets. awesome!!
You guys know your stuff! Great video.
Such a good video! I just had to re watch it! Man I bet this .101 housing would be so much more responsive with a rb30 bottom end!
even if it had only been on par with the twins, how can you say no to that screamer!? hope to see the car around sometime, looks and sounds epic
15:57 That's Old Pacific Highway up by Gosford! Amazing driving road
got mine due back to me soon.. 2860-5 tubs Tomei ponscams and 87mm mahle pistons and Manley rods. all the supporting goodies like osg clutch and link g4 ecu with 4bar map. be interesting to see how it goes.
I've had a 33 gtst woth gt3076r top Mount tub in the past and I can vouch for the response on it.. it was hilarious good fun and the sound was incredible.. altho i ran plumbed in wgate as i fricking hate screamer. the video is on my channel.
I chose twins this time simply because I wanted to restore this 32gtr and have it look stock really. still looking fwd to it :)
I'd love to drive a car that nice one day. Sounds so good on the road, so smooth in the gear change.
I think it would be cool if you guys redo this video with the new garret G-series turbos. Like twin G25s vs single G45. I wonder what the response would be like.
I'd like to see you guys do a multi vs single throttle comparison for RB26 a lot of people say the ITB's respond better but some shops say singles will respond better.
That is one of our possible future tests, yes
Sounds good, most people say they did ITB's just to make the RB26 unique rather than a performance feature. What's your experience been with the RB26 intake setups?
+V LT ITBS is about response. The volume of air between the throttles and engine is very small so when you open the throttle the response is improved over having a single throttle in front of a plenum.
Essentially, it is a high end racing item but on a factory car.
Modern turbos though, are much improved from 1990s, so its not a big as a deal.
We are looking at doing a single throttle vs multi throttle Mythbuster video in the future on this car.
But on a Turbo car does it really do anything as the majority of the engines power once at normal cruising speeds comes from the turbos and the turbos will take longer to spool than any sort of perceived response the ITB's can give is my take on it. Some even call the ITB's on Rb26's restrictive, others argue it's all about circuit work to give precise throttle control. by driving my 26 I'd never tell it has ITB's, I only know on idle the throttle is quite touchy but that's about it. There must be some reason to it I guess I'd like to find out some real testing to see what it shows
Great job,how much torque it has now?
Pretty impressive build, I thought the response was gonna be terrible in comparison.
Would of liked you guys to explain the importance of getting the car retuned when work has been done on the engine to those people out there that don't know this.
MrIamChosen Not necessarily re-truned, but at least checked. Our tuner told us after removing the head and putting it back together it was running just fine. Obviously some tweaking was needed, but we always check our cars on the dyne after any changes/upgrades etc
My flagrant use of hindsight not withstanding and the full capitulation that there's no argument against the simplicity of a single top mount, I still have room for protest. Comparing a (2015) modern GT35 twin scroll setup to antiquated internal wastegate T28s is not even close to an apples to apples match up.
in 2018 we built an RB26 with stock crank, forged rods and pistons, and full Tomei valve train for my brother's R32. We also used the stock intake and bottom mount GTX2867Rs to preserve the illusion its stock "ish" enough. Tuning was done on a Link G4 and those little T28s seriously shocked the hell out of us. It's making 520kw running e85, and as you can imagine the bottom end is WAY more stout than any GT35 configuration. Not even a GTX3576r can match their bottom end performance, and although you might make that kind of top end power by jumping to a T4 1.1 A/R frame, you'd completely piss away your bottom end to do it.
Fact is I have no idea how they do it, but with a small Gen II Billet GTX2867R your SR20 can make *400kw* and scroll up like a T25. That's not just a notch up for the legendary disco potato mates, its kicking it up into a whole new WTF is going on level. Pretty sure there's some kind of voodoo magic alien reverse engineering shit going on at the Garrett lab. I haven't been playing with boost all that long but it seems only a short time ago we were patting ourselves on the back for squeezing a respectable 350kw out of an SR with a T3 GT3071r... Hell, I remember thinking crazy lag was a necessary evil to get all the GT30's power to come on all of a sudden @ 4500rpm... ah the good old days. Now I ask ya boys, what's the world coming to if a little new fangled turbo can make 400kw? I don't know either, but I'm looking forward to finding out. ;o)
27 to 27 is not apples to apples. However, undoubtedly you have increased air density due better thermal characteristics.
i was just thinking about this and low and behold you upload a vid answering every question i had in my head. i was thinking more a GTX3076 and prob around the 20psi mark on a low mount manifold. what do you think this would net?
Thanks for that, that's really change my opinion about single !
Could you make a video of the smallest turbos?
The ones you'd want to install in modern 1 to 2liter economy cars, for a mild performance boost?
Damn, that boost needle just flys up lol
Great video man, great work! and that R32 kicks ass.
Amazing good explanations and test
Now put on high mount twins with a custom manifold and see how it fares for a true single vs twin test.
Stock manifolds are always going to lose against new tech turbo's. Put on an old tech turbo for a fairer comparison with the equivalent amount of air displacement as the twins you removed.
What blow off valve are you running? Where did you mount your MAP sensor?
+GoodeZilla doesn't sound like he is running a blow of valve.
DriftNick Won't that ruin the turbo eventually from compressor surge?
GoodeZilla No, it's fairly common for people in Australia not to run them.
+GoodeZilla Factory blow off valves but just not returned anymore
Good show, mate... Cheers
I'm sorry I don't ,mean to offend, but in the first few mins of this, you can tell you're a bit biased towards the single, maybe a peer reviewed version would help?
The fact it was not boosted with the single from 2500rpm or thereabouts to see it come on from down low was a bit of a shame too.
I used to run a white 34GTR full street car up in QLD and held the fastest street circuit GTR lap record for 2 years including beating modified R35's too.
I ran GTX2863 hybrid -5's.
I know the proper GTX's were a little better, but either way I ran a respectable 489kwatw, for a circuit/street car it was a blast.
Now to defend the claim, I would have loved to go a single for one reason alone, lower PSI for less combustion heat.
I was runing at 33psi on the twins and heat was always an issue, especially coolant heat and the intake heat temps were soaring, you can inter-cool only to an extent and keeping coolant temps down was a challenge, with a single I could have had the same power with at-least 5psi less which would have helped immensely with intake temps that compounds combustion temps.
The other factor would have been heat front he twins and how much pipe work was radiating heat into my engine bay.
I have seen great results from single these days and if I was to do it, a VCT head with a GTX single would be my choice, on 30 bottom end too would see huge potential in the linear power delivery which is always needed with circuit cars.
Keeping cam shaft overlap profiles not far from standard but with a big lift is key to down low power and a linear power band, far too many times do I see 272 degree cams and people complaining of lag and a non linear power band.
Good review Andrew, I just though you were a bit biased right from the get go, although these days, i do tend to agree with a single now for a number of reasons.
Wait for the Magnetti Marelli E turbo's that are about to hit the tuner scene, all of this will be irrelevant soon, huge singles like a GTX45R on a RB28 with no lag at all will all be here soon, the next 5 years of development in turbo tech to the masses is about to explode.
The faces he pulls when it hits boost are priceless
It might just be the insane power the GTR has, but the gears seem so short it reminds me of my WRX
It has a 6-speed Getrag gearbox from R34 but with 4.1 diff ratio instead of 3.55. Our last video on the car shows the swap and results. It's the reason the Mines R34 looks so fast as well. It used 4.6s at one stage!
Would be interesting to see what the power would be like without the twin scroll setup and if it would still beat the twins
Michael Banks Would still win with single scroll. We've seen GT3582 with 0.82 rear housing out perform twins many times
Excellent video! I am doing a build on my BMW N54 335xi and was searching videos about the GTX3582R Gen 2 and found myself here. My current build is going to use that turbo with T04 1.06 a/r and is going from small twins. I have been hearing people say that singles suck to drive and turbo lag is bad with a single. My tuner reassured me that single is the way to go. Sometimes you feel like people are just trying to sell you but after this video I cant wait to have my car running soon. That RB26 just rips! Also I like that beat at 21:00 minutes anyone know what it is?