One thing about the enclosure you chose. Those channels on the outside with the bevels? You can create "cheeks" for that variety of case by 3d printing panels to slide into those slots. Can give it a lot of character / splash of color. Since I use the same enclosures for multiple projects, the color coding helps me discern modules at a distance.
@ I’m away from home and don’t have photos, but you can get really creative once you nail the dimensions. I made a friend a set of solid wood cheeks by using a cnc router to make two rails on the back of one piece of wood, giving super nice looking solid wood cheeks. Looked like my Prophet 6 cheeks by the end. Endless fun opportunities when you’re making a little free standing module like this.
Amazing work! I made a ps/2 to bluetooth code for esp32 if your interested. Works decent on the old ps2 keyboard to make them bluetooth. Ttgo vga adapter makes it even easier to set up
Nice! I had a similar device in development based on the pi zero running linux for the named reasons: HID compatibility. But that project is on ice since almost two years yet :( Anyhow, as always thank you very much for sharing your great work with the community.
@@necro_ware yeah to be honest I'd probably have used a pi if I'd known how difficult hid report parsing was, lol. Ah well. We don't do these things because they are easy, but because we THOUGHT they were going to be easy....
A USB-A to A cable? But my 2003 Haynes manual said that'd blow up the USB port! :P (Fun fact, it also said Longhorn should finally be out by 2004 IIRC, and that it would be a massive improvement on XP.)
Love it! Just a amendum, the first gen Xbox one controllers use a proprietary wireless connection. The later ones do have a standard Bluetooth mode though.
@@TheRasteriIt gets worse, the 2nd gen controller supports both BT and the proprietary protocol, but a slightly modified one. The PC dongles for different gens are incompatible and use separate drivers. Both work the same over wired XInput AFAIK.
Please drop a note here too. I'd love to have options. I think I have ~5 different tools on the bench to convert modern peripherals to retro PCs but different options are always welcome.
What's wrong with using just standard PS2 to USB adapters that have been available since the late 90s? I got one way back then with one of my keyboards and never had an issue with all my 90s computers. What's the benefit of the HIDman over those adapters?
@@pseudonym3690 they're just passive adapters that require usb devices with a PS2 fallback mode - they don't work with most modern keyboards and mice. Hidman actually translates the protocol.
@TheRasteri I actually just came to the comments to ask the same thing. I didn't realize only some keyboards could work that way. I'm guessing the keyboards that could do that were from a transitional period where it was possible that there were still a few people running PS/2 only computers and didn't yet have USB So they made the keyboards so they could run in a kind of "compatibility mode" so they weren't useless if you had an older PC.
Nice, I've made something similar that I had working with my Commodore Amiga. It supported the Keyboard and Joysticks, sadly I havent the time these days to work on the project. Keep up the work!!!
Your idea of an internal card would be interesting as hell... What about four-connector card with a usb hub connected to the middle can fits in a drive plate or a rear slot plate, and the edges of the card are set up for ISA/EISA on one side, Microchannel on another, PCE and PCI-E on the remaining two. That way, it works with ANY PC compatible, pretty much, and gives you lots of mounting options for the usb hub's ports.
I think your reliance on using extruded aluminum chassis makes the project feel way more professional than the normal 3d printed solution. like there's absolutely a time and a place for 3d printing but this looks like a product you'd buy from an actual company more than a 3d printed DIY project.
Yeah 3D printed cases are great but IMO they look terrible. I have had some success with using the PCB plates on a 3D printed chassis, sometimes that can look pretty professional too
I feel you on the lack of keyboards. I picked up a Beautiful PC9801F from the scrapyard but no way to hook up a keyboard because they're hideously expensive when I even find one.
What a cool project Rasteri, I wonder how easy it would be to add a gameport so it can be used to translate joysticks into keyboard/mouse inputs *strokes chin* ♥ Great vid and project!
@@TheRasteriOne of the cooler features of usb4vc is to split 1 input device's many buttons to several vintage side device. it would be cool to provide this, but I understand it's a bit against your simplicity tenet. It's THE way to play descent with a PS4 gamepad though!
This is a really cool project, and nice to think about the affordability. I don't particularly need one myself as all my retro systems are laptops but it's really nice to know that it's there. Only two things that stand out (and these are just my own curiosity, not any critique) but where do you get a PS/2 to PS/2 cable? I don't think I've ever seen something like that, maybe from old KVM Switches? But all of those that I remember using were integrated into a weird loom ending in a proprietary plug. The USB A-A cable should be easier to find, although I will say I think they're a detestable thing, I understand why they get made, and why it would be a space concern to have a B or C port on the unit also, but it just seems like a potential for disaster. It's not as bad as some other applications of USB-A i've seen, like using just the connector to run 12 and 24v in a way that'd utterly fry anything you plugged into it, but it still gives me just a tiny bit of shivers 😅
You can find PS/2 to PS/2 cables on ebay and aliexpress. As you say they're still used in KVM switches. I'm not happy about A-to-A cables either but needs must...
wait how is this being powered? does a single ps/2 port actually have enough power for this to work? i assumed it was super low, but i guess i was wrong looking at ur wikipedia screenshot, im guessing it caps at at a watt more or less, kinda shocked thats enough for the microcontroller and keyboard. i guess rgb devices arent gonna work lmao sorry i guess i havent touched this kinda stuff enough to really know how efficient this stuff is
You can pull about 250mA (1.25W) out of each PS/2 port, and since there are two ports, we have about 500mA (2.5W) to play with. That's the same as a USB port, so unless someone plugs in several RGB keyboards at once it should be fine. And even then, HIDman has a 500mA polyfuse so that will stop anything too dramatic from happening. I suppose if someone is using only one PS/2 port you could technically draw too much current but I still very much doubt it's enough to damage anything
cool project. how about making it amstrad 1640 complete and add a 9 pin port to stick a c64 joystick to act as the cursor keys, like the amstrad keyboard has on it? speaking of which i don't think i've ever seen a video of that feature. I think a master system controller worked as well, but did anyone ever dig out how it was done on the keyboard itself?
Hi, it looks like PCBWay is not going to provide ps2 connector for me. "Please note that we do not provide and solder ps2 connector for this shared project" Is anyone else having this issue?
I could suggest looking into adding NEC PC8801 / PC98 keyboard mice compatibility, although they technically are PC devices Japan has not made them since early 2000 and such convverters exsist but for a whopping 90 USD! keyboard or mouse Crazy
Come to think of it, I only know because of the Shaun Hymel DigiKey videos about using KiCAD. …and I left the D off “pronounce” making me sound like I don’t know any better. ;)
Ahh, I've got work to do, I can't be utterly engrossed by another Rasteris video right now! Must, stop, and , save, for , later, boring , work , to , doooo...
USB HID... yes, it's so well designed by Microsoft, that nearly every hardware vendor needs to provide a custom driver to work around issues - many of which are caused by the hardware vendor. Typical "we will fix it in software" approach.
Thanks for being mindful of color-blindness. Most people don’t realize just how common it is. It’s should be a basic rule of thumb for UI design that you never distinguish between two things with only green and red! …and that goes for software AND hardware.
Went down a bit of a CVD rabbit hole for this video lol. It's pretty easy to pick colours for deuter/protan but becomes a lot harder when you add tritan to the mix
I love the idea of the dekunukem one but the adapter having more power than the computer it's controlling just doesn't sit right with me, like you might as well just emulate the computer directly and take out the middle man imo
Where the USB4VC shines is in simultaneous peripheral conversion support. I use one with a Pi Zero 2W + Waveshare 3B+ converter and it can handle a modern keyboard, trackball/mouse and Xbox controller all at the same time. The controller appears as a standard joystick in games, not as keyboard mapped keys and the mouse can be plugged in via PS/2 or serial as well. That said, the HIDman is very convenient and does its job well without the need to muck with settings. The USB4VC does require a bit of set-up, but there are profiles that can be downloaded and imported to save time. Great project TheRasteri!
Yeah I also have philosophical objections to using a multi-core multi-ghz computer just to run the keyboard on my 4mhz IBM PC :) but then again I have a picomem and it's so handy...
My 486 DX2/66 is surrounded by/equipped with a comical plethora of processors. * 286/20MHz on the VLB SCSI card * 286/20MHz on the VLB IDE/Quad Floppy card * Pi Pico 2040 on the PicoGUS * Pi CM4 module on the wavetable MIDI card * Pi Zero 2 on the USB4VC gluing all the peripherals together. It's a 13-core beast!
@@T3hBeowulf I'm not saying it's a bad project I just think it's extreme overkill if you just want a "USB to DOS computer" adapter. it has it's place for sure but it feels sacreligious using it. most of my objections is that why don't you just plug the raspberry pi into a monitor and use that as the "retro computer" it has more than enough power to do that.
@@JessicaFEREM Indeed, especially during the dark ages where the lead times for a Pi were measured in years, it definitely felt wrong putting the only Pi I could get at the time... a 4GB Pi4. I have since seen my errors, repurposed the Pi4 and dropped a Pi Zero 2. It wasn't a whole lot better, but at least it was only a ~Pi3 worth of overkill.
The logo is *chef's kiss*
"...so I made my own..." should be the name of this channel. Amazing stuff, like always!
One thing about the enclosure you chose. Those channels on the outside with the bevels? You can create "cheeks" for that variety of case by 3d printing panels to slide into those slots. Can give it a lot of character / splash of color. Since I use the same enclosures for multiple projects, the color coding helps me discern modules at a distance.
@@LanceCSTCuddy oh cool idea! I know those slots were meant to be used for mounting hardware but it never occurred to me to use them for panels.
@ I’m away from home and don’t have photos, but you can get really creative once you nail the dimensions. I made a friend a set of solid wood cheeks by using a cnc router to make two rails on the back of one piece of wood, giving super nice looking solid wood cheeks. Looked like my Prophet 6 cheeks by the end. Endless fun opportunities when you’re making a little free standing module like this.
I love the implementation of the menu. Super clever!
Thanks for mentioning ps2x2pico ❤
Thanks for your help making the PS2x2pico work on the Llama ITX! 🍻
I cannot begin to tell you how genius it is using the keyboard as aa serial terminal to modify the on=board config is.
Thanks! Not my idea though - I think I got the idea from keyloggers haha
This is insanely incredible! What a brilliant project! It's amazing what can be made these days!
I went the cheeky route... Thanks for providing the step files for the faceplates in the repo. Fully 3d printed case solution.
Amazing work! I made a ps/2 to bluetooth code for esp32 if your interested. Works decent on the old ps2 keyboard to make them bluetooth. Ttgo vga adapter makes it even easier to set up
Amazing project, might assemble one of these, since I want to play on older 386 hardware for a while
Nice! I had a similar device in development based on the pi zero running linux for the named reasons: HID compatibility. But that project is on ice since almost two years yet :(
Anyhow, as always thank you very much for sharing your great work with the community.
@@necro_ware yeah to be honest I'd probably have used a pi if I'd known how difficult hid report parsing was, lol. Ah well. We don't do these things because they are easy, but because we THOUGHT they were going to be easy....
@TheRasteri LOL 😂 that's true.
A USB-A to A cable? But my 2003 Haynes manual said that'd blow up the USB port! :P
(Fun fact, it also said Longhorn should finally be out by 2004 IIRC, and that it would be a massive improvement on XP.)
Thanks for sending me one to test its been amazing!
Thanks for testing it!
Love it! Just a amendum, the first gen Xbox one controllers use a proprietary wireless connection. The later ones do have a standard Bluetooth mode though.
Yeah I'm hoping to add Xbox controller support soon. It should be possible.
@TheRasteri no rush! *Throws an Irn-Bru up north*
@@TheRasteriIt gets worse, the 2nd gen controller supports both BT and the proprietary protocol, but a slightly modified one. The PC dongles for different gens are incompatible and use separate drivers.
Both work the same over wired XInput AFAIK.
@@HalNeinThousandIs that why my dongle doesn't work with my controller?!
Top work sir, amazing project. Always a pleasure seeing an upload on this channel.
Me and Nachtrave are going to be building a batch of these, so we'll have a few spares to sell.
Yeah I heard! Let me know when you are ready and I'll put a link in the video description
Please drop a note here too.
I'd love to have options. I think I have ~5 different tools on the bench to convert modern peripherals to retro PCs but different options are always welcome.
If you're selling, I'd love to buy one. I'm lazy and would rather pay for someone else's hard work. :-)
That Crayola keyboard is an atrocity and possible human rights violation.
The menu scheme is very clever!
This is a great preservation project, well done!
Been waiting on this one, the ideas for a card or with gameport are great as well.
So much talent
Does this mean with some careful mucking the of the software we could add macro capabilities to keyboards that didn't have it?
Yeah I'm sure you could!
What's wrong with using just standard PS2 to USB adapters that have been available since the late 90s? I got one way back then with one of my keyboards and never had an issue with all my 90s computers. What's the benefit of the HIDman over those adapters?
@@pseudonym3690 they're just passive adapters that require usb devices with a PS2 fallback mode - they don't work with most modern keyboards and mice. Hidman actually translates the protocol.
@@TheRasteri Thanks for clearing that up and thanks for making this project available to the public!
@TheRasteri I actually just came to the comments to ask the same thing. I didn't realize only some keyboards could work that way.
I'm guessing the keyboards that could do that were from a transitional period where it was possible that there were still a few people running PS/2 only computers and didn't yet have USB So they made the keyboards so they could run in a kind of "compatibility mode" so they weren't useless if you had an older PC.
Nice, I've made something similar that I had working with my Commodore Amiga. It supported the Keyboard and Joysticks, sadly I havent the time these days to work on the project. Keep up the work!!!
awesome project. can't wait for the next one. any hints about what that might be?
Perhaps I'll revisit the disappointment board, maybe build the most powerful DOS gaming PC ever
Your idea of an internal card would be interesting as hell... What about four-connector card with a usb hub connected to the middle can fits in a drive plate or a rear slot plate, and the edges of the card are set up for ISA/EISA on one side, Microchannel on another, PCE and PCI-E on the remaining two. That way, it works with ANY PC compatible, pretty much, and gives you lots of mounting options for the usb hub's ports.
World's most powerful keylogger
Haha, can't log many keys with only 6kb of ram 😛
really like that it's not a raspberry pi in 3d printed case
I think your reliance on using extruded aluminum chassis makes the project feel way more professional than the normal 3d printed solution. like there's absolutely a time and a place for 3d printing but this looks like a product you'd buy from an actual company more than a 3d printed DIY project.
Yeah 3D printed cases are great but IMO they look terrible. I have had some success with using the PCB plates on a 3D printed chassis, sometimes that can look pretty professional too
Cool stuff, as always!
6:50 I totally agree with that assessment lol
There are SO MANY device with dodgy report descriptors out there, but I blame the USB-IF for not defining it properly
This is so gosh dang cool as all beans
Amazing stuff!
I feel you on the lack of keyboards. I picked up a Beautiful PC9801F from the scrapyard but no way to hook up a keyboard because they're hideously expensive when I even find one.
I'd love to add PC9801 support sometime, but I doubt I'll be able to get my hands on one
@@TheRasteri Get your hands on a machine you mean? I think I could probably help.
Whenever I hear slave, all I can think of is Mr. Slave from Southpark 😂
Jesus Christ!
Whats the background music its pretty good
Wait, NO SUPPORT for my USB Heated Codpiece? You've lost a sale, my friend.
Great stuff. I always enjoy your vids
What a cool project Rasteri, I wonder how easy it would be to add a gameport so it can be used to translate joysticks into keyboard/mouse inputs *strokes chin*
♥ Great vid and project!
I may do a HIDman-pro at some point that has a gameport. I've been thinking about it
@@TheRasteriOne of the cooler features of usb4vc is to split 1 input device's many buttons to several vintage side device. it would be cool to provide this, but I understand it's a bit against your simplicity tenet. It's THE way to play descent with a PS4 gamepad though!
This is a really cool project, and nice to think about the affordability. I don't particularly need one myself as all my retro systems are laptops but it's really nice to know that it's there.
Only two things that stand out (and these are just my own curiosity, not any critique) but where do you get a PS/2 to PS/2 cable? I don't think I've ever seen something like that, maybe from old KVM Switches? But all of those that I remember using were integrated into a weird loom ending in a proprietary plug. The USB A-A cable should be easier to find, although I will say I think they're a detestable thing, I understand why they get made, and why it would be a space concern to have a B or C port on the unit also, but it just seems like a potential for disaster. It's not as bad as some other applications of USB-A i've seen, like using just the connector to run 12 and 24v in a way that'd utterly fry anything you plugged into it, but it still gives me just a tiny bit of shivers 😅
You can find PS/2 to PS/2 cables on ebay and aliexpress. As you say they're still used in KVM switches. I'm not happy about A-to-A cables either but needs must...
Heaps of PS2 to PS2 cables available online to purchase.
@@TechToTunes never seen them in the wild but I guess it makes sense seeing as they were used on KVMs a lot
do you have a playlist of the music used in your videos? it's really chill
Epidemic sound, old school hiphop section :)
do logi bolt keyboard and mice work with these, or just the older unifying ones?
Either should work. If you find one that doesn't, get in touch!
Instructions unclear Hitman attempted to hand me over to Jabba the Hutt...
wait how is this being powered? does a single ps/2 port actually have enough power for this to work? i assumed it was super low, but i guess i was wrong
looking at ur wikipedia screenshot, im guessing it caps at at a watt more or less, kinda shocked thats enough for the microcontroller and keyboard.
i guess rgb devices arent gonna work lmao
sorry i guess i havent touched this kinda stuff enough to really know how efficient this stuff is
You can pull about 250mA (1.25W) out of each PS/2 port, and since there are two ports, we have about 500mA (2.5W) to play with. That's the same as a USB port, so unless someone plugs in several RGB keyboards at once it should be fine.
And even then, HIDman has a 500mA polyfuse so that will stop anything too dramatic from happening.
I suppose if someone is using only one PS/2 port you could technically draw too much current but I still very much doubt it's enough to damage anything
the only contribution I'd be able to make is hideousMan, basically a breadboard with no enclosure and cables dangling all over the place
@@nicoful86 that's what my prototype looked like haha
cool project.
how about making it amstrad 1640 complete and add a 9 pin port to stick a c64 joystick to act as the cursor keys, like the amstrad keyboard has on it? speaking of which i don't think i've ever seen a video of that feature. I think a master system controller worked as well, but did anyone ever dig out how it was done on the keyboard itself?
Hi,
it looks like PCBWay is not going to provide ps2 connector for me.
"Please note that we do not provide and solder ps2 connector for this shared project"
Is anyone else having this issue?
what?? they soldered it for me. Did they give a reason?
@@TheRasteri No reason given. They are just proposing that I should source connectors from somewhere and solder them by myself.
@@Anakkiable yeah I'd ask them why - they are definitely in stock in lcsc
@@TheRasteri Ok, problem sorted.
"You're right, this connector should be soldered. Upon inspection, we quoted the BOM wrongly"
Oh God I know the pain of parsing HID. I wrote one for Python haha.
This is awesome.
Just after that crayola keyboard I was thinking it's HIDman all the way down
Can you convert XT to usb?
There are other projects that can do that - google "Soarer's Converter"
I could suggest looking into adding NEC PC8801 / PC98 keyboard mice compatibility, although they technically are PC devices Japan has not made them since early 2000 and such convverters exsist but for a whopping 90 USD! keyboard or mouse Crazy
@@MrAlan1828 I've had someone offer to hook me up with a pc98. Maybe...
psss dont tell him that you can already buy these adapters
8:06 where is the ß key or öäü?
Found the source code, but you should consider putting a link in the description
@@blueduck577 oops! Good shout
Where can I buy one of these?
Check the video description :)
Isn’t KiCAD pronounce “Key CAD”?
no idea lol. I do a lot of mispronounciation in this vid
Come to think of it, I only know because of the Shaun Hymel DigiKey videos about using KiCAD.
…and I left the D off “pronounce” making me sound like I don’t know any better. ;)
Awesome project this and works amazingly well!
Another communist minion 🤣
nice
Neat!
Ahh, I've got work to do, I can't be utterly engrossed by another Rasteris video right now! Must, stop, and , save, for , later, boring , work , to , doooo...
That is handy :)
Be careful to only plug PS/2 in or out when the PC is switched off. Some old mainboards can break otherwise. And Hotplug isn’t supported anyway.
Glad to see the USB to YES joke again
You really need to lower the music. It was hard following for me :/
Yeah I'm considering whether to get rid of music in future videos. Do you find other youtube videos with music hard to follow?
@@TheRasteri Not really. You'd just need to lower it about 20% or so. Background music is fine.
Noice
Like the project, hated the music!
You are an animalllllll
USB HID... yes, it's so well designed by Microsoft, that nearly every hardware vendor needs to provide a custom driver to work around issues - many of which are caused by the hardware vendor. Typical "we will fix it in software" approach.
Thanks for being mindful of color-blindness. Most people don’t realize just how common it is. It’s should be a basic rule of thumb for UI design that you never distinguish between two things with only green and red! …and that goes for software AND hardware.
Went down a bit of a CVD rabbit hole for this video lol. It's pretty easy to pick colours for deuter/protan but becomes a lot harder when you add tritan to the mix
Indeed. You went above and beyond for even the more obscure CVD types where you could rarely expect to be considered! Thanks.🙏
I love the idea of the dekunukem one but the adapter having more power than the computer it's controlling just doesn't sit right with me, like you might as well just emulate the computer directly and take out the middle man imo
Where the USB4VC shines is in simultaneous peripheral conversion support.
I use one with a Pi Zero 2W + Waveshare 3B+ converter and it can handle a modern keyboard, trackball/mouse and Xbox controller all at the same time.
The controller appears as a standard joystick in games, not as keyboard mapped keys and the mouse can be plugged in via PS/2 or serial as well.
That said, the HIDman is very convenient and does its job well without the need to muck with settings. The USB4VC does require a bit of set-up, but there are profiles that can be downloaded and imported to save time.
Great project TheRasteri!
Yeah I also have philosophical objections to using a multi-core multi-ghz computer just to run the keyboard on my 4mhz IBM PC :) but then again I have a picomem and it's so handy...
My 486 DX2/66 is surrounded by/equipped with a comical plethora of processors.
* 286/20MHz on the VLB SCSI card
* 286/20MHz on the VLB IDE/Quad Floppy card
* Pi Pico 2040 on the PicoGUS
* Pi CM4 module on the wavetable MIDI card
* Pi Zero 2 on the USB4VC gluing all the peripherals together.
It's a 13-core beast!
@@T3hBeowulf I'm not saying it's a bad project I just think it's extreme overkill if you just want a "USB to DOS computer" adapter. it has it's place for sure but it feels sacreligious using it. most of my objections is that why don't you just plug the raspberry pi into a monitor and use that as the "retro computer" it has more than enough power to do that.
@@JessicaFEREM Indeed, especially during the dark ages where the lead times for a Pi were measured in years, it definitely felt wrong putting the only Pi I could get at the time... a 4GB Pi4.
I have since seen my errors, repurposed the Pi4 and dropped a Pi Zero 2. It wasn't a whole lot better, but at least it was only a ~Pi3 worth of overkill.
came from hackaday!. I'm sure many Spectrum Next Peeps will be happy to see this!