@@Nyanx4 Jen isn't his co-worker anymore and, even when she was, she did 20% of the work. Though it is telling of lefties that, when they stop liking a guy, they look for a woman they can attribute the accomplishments to. I'll eat my word if I'm wrong. But I don't think there's a conspiracy here. Shaun is a braying jackass on twitter; but he produces good work. He's not the first and he won't be the last and if he was less spiteful, if he didn't use twitter, nobody would be trying to associate Shaun's work with Jen.
You are joking I assume but it makes me laugh when people are so consumed by politics they cry when a leader is elected but their lives don't even change in the slightest, I assume the only thing that directly affected you from the trump era was his supporters triggering you? I could be wrong.
as a self identified leftist who isnt allowed to call themselves left because leftist gatekeeping, i had a supposed leftist unironically tell me they couldnt tell the difference between liberals and fascists. that kinda shit is why we only ever lose.
I see this a lot. I'm a social democrat and although it is a left wing ideology(be it not that far info the left), its still in the left. And I've been told by these purists that socdem isn't left wing. Like,I just can't anymore. Its better to being anyone remortely close to the left cause the way I see it the left is an umbrella for numerous ideologies but all in the end come under leftism. Gatekeeping & excluding some ideologies is just not it.
I have always noticed people like Non Compete and Bad Empanada who say that turn out to be these weird anarchists tankie apologists. Non Compete especially since he doesnt at all disagree with Luna Oi despite her being delusional like how she believes that China's poverty rate is at 0 percent and that means everyone does well there likes it's a utopia with no genocide going on.
Liberal: I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. Fascist: I disagree with what you say, and for that reason I will now fight you to the death. That’s a big difference right there.
@@christopherjustice6411 that's actually a brilliant one. Also,liberals don't advocate for the literal genocide of a group😂 I mean the people who couldn't tell the difference most likely know nothing about what they claim to be and just joined cause they liked the esthetics
@@dragonborn3609 that's why Hakim gives me bad vibes too. No,I can't watch his videos knowing he's a genocide denier. He can make the best videos ever and I'll still never respect him.
Judges, judges, judges. The federal judicial appointments are going to be hurting POCs and economically vulnerable with corporate favoritism for DECADES.
Is this any different from, say, W or Reagan or any other Bush or any other Republican who would be in that office? That's a pretty good argument for around average.
@@MoonatikYT Not always, it it weren’t for the liberal justices and Kennedy, gay marriage wouldn’t be legal nationwide and there wouldn’t be federal workplace protections for LGBTQ people. But conservatives have gained much more power in the courts because they started planning long term since the 70s with the federalist society while liberals aren’t even close to organized in this aspect.
I mean, when I look at economics, foreign policy, and social issues, Trump wasn't that different from any other politican. But when I look at how he made Republicans go absolutely nuts, that's when I realize the harm he did.
Well, in 2016 the Republicans did try to moderate certain positions (like on immigration). Trump just got the radicals to support him and made everyone go nuts.
Are they really more nuts than they were during the Obama years? During the Bush years when they were arguing that letting gay people marry would be like letting people marry their dogs and they were all open neocons? When did this "sane" GOP ever actually exist? They've been awful forever.
William Cowhey I don't think anyone is debating that, the difference is that Trump enabled the radical elements of his base like no one else before. Bush and even the Tea Party didn't signal to nigh-paramilitary fascist organizations and claim the government needed to be overthrown.
His policies were pretty much par for the conservative Republican course. Him personally, that's a different story. The noise which propels his few policies is terrible. That's not too far off from what Shaun is twittering.
I was on a date with this leftist the other day and we talked about content creators we liked. And I mentioned that I like Vaush. And then they were like in shock. It was almost as if I told them I was a Ben Shapiro fan or something. And then later I learned that their only gripe with Vaush was that he once said "If Marx was alive, he would have voted Biden" and I started laughing out loud.
Oh my God! Like okay, Biden is the textbook definition of a centrist or fish hook theory or horseshoe theory or whatever buzzword we're currently giving to fence-straddlers, but next to Adolph Hitler's reincarnation? He's pretty much the only choice. I hate the two party system as much as anybody else, but come on. Was your date a 'Bernie or Bust' type, or just a stick your head in the sand until a good candidate comes along type?
@@Wendy_O._Koopa I'm pretty sure they're one of them European lefties/communist who can't really understand American politics because it's so much more far right than ours. So they don't understand that you could only choose between two politicians.
Well, yeah, but most people begin and end at calling him a pedophile. I don't know if you've seen the video where Vaush reacts to Shoe0nHead completely, almost _maliciously_ misunderstanding something Big Joel said... but it's basically like that. Most people get mad at really bizarre conclusions they've reached from misunderstanding him, or the more honest ones (I guess) admit that they disagree with something he actually said because, hey, opinions are still a thing. But anyone who doesn't think Trump is worse than Biden is a conservative. I don't care what alignment they to have, they're either full-on, or a closet conservative... so now I'm left wondering if Shaun is really the one smart republican, creating a covert pipeline... very slowly.
@@Alex393-e5g Both parties do bad things is not the same thing as both parties are the same. Also saying both parties aren't the same does not mean that 1 party is actually good. Both parties can be generally bad but one is better than the other. The Democratic party needs a lot of work but saying they are just as bad as Republicans is not true and not helpful
@@Alex393-e5g distilling the entirety politics into a single issue position is about as juvenile as it gets by excluding any room for nuance whatsoever. Trump droned more people in his single term than Bush and Obama did combined in 16 years, but not being an absolute fuckwit doesn’t get you likes on twitter does it
@@Alex393-e5g I mean Trump actively drone striked more than Obama as well as increased opacity through executive orders...thats a difference right there on top of how dems arent anywhere near the same level as ratcheting up holy war/xenophobic bs that justifies the bombings. But your question is asking whats the difference in this specific aspect and ignores all of the other aspects involved with dem/rep leadership so its a pointless question right off the bat.
I was old enough and fully politically aware during the Bush years. I disagree with Vaush: even if on a smaller scale, _all_ of the insanity and depravity and reality-denial of the modern Republican party was already there. Even at the top. The Bush-era neocons wanted to restore US full-spectrum dominance, but it was a Potemkin project. The Iraq War was as much about a scammy demonstration of US military power to other great powers by eliminating a toothless opponent as about oil. To get that war, they famously massaged intelligence to claim Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. What younger people (and older Americans only exposed to US MSM at the time) perhaps don't fully appreciate is how obvious it was _in advance_ that the WMD "evidence" is BS (which is why Europeans picked it apart and France & Germany opposed the war). What younger people also may not remember is that after the defeat of Saddam and the quick unravelling of the occupation, the neocons kept pushing other fantasies in denial of reality. They linked Saddam's regime to al-Qaida, then put off all armed resistance to the occupation as disgruntled members of the former regime (rather than resistance from all sorts of people outraged by the conduct of the US and its allies), then pretended that all the armed actions come from Sunnis while the civil war was brewing, then when al-Sadr rose they pretended he is a puppet of Iran (when in fact al-Sadr's was the most Iraqi-nationalist Shi'a faction and the US's own allies have been in Iranian exile). Needless to say, all this denial of reality was quite counter-productive to the neocons' own goals, because they ensured a permanent bad assessment of the situation, from the top to the bottom (because the US soldiers fighting on the ground also succumbed to the fantasies of who they are fighting against and why). Throughout this time, the same legions of right-wingers in internet comments as today gave a full-throated defence of every propaganda lie, adding their own dumbed-down takes to it, and ganging up on anyone with a voice of reason. This is just one (at the time, the top) subject in which the Republicans acted in total denial of reality 18 years ago already. The GOP has been completely (and I mean literally 100%) rotten at least since the start of the Bush years, arguably since the Gingrich years.
It's true that Republicans have always been based on blatant lies and propaganda, but even four years ago the GOP didn't just blatantly lie about empirical facts the way they do now. Do you remember back in 2015 when Trump was running for office, how much he stood out and how much even people like Bill O'Reilly sometimes tried to restrain him a bit? Now, the only "normal" one is heccin Mitt Romney, and look how he's treated by his own party. A lot of it is just that now they're saying the quiet part out loud, but I think it really does matter.
@@orangenostril Again, from the way I remember the Republicans 5 years ago and 10 years ago and 20 years ago and 30 years ago, I can only see a difference in magnitude, not one in quality. What I described re the Iraq war were blatant lies about empirical facts (lies which killed hundreds of thousands, I must add), defended with the full arsenal of the GOP propaganda machine, and defended by the faithful with full-blown conspiracy theories long after it became obvious that they were lies (much in the vein of Qanon). To me, back in 2015, Trump did not stand out _that_ much: the entire crop of candidates was a freakshow, Trump was just the dumbest and most reckless and thus the most obvious, and he showed some of the old farts like Bill O'Reilly that they don't have to be as subtle as they used to be.
@@orangenostril I was responding to your claim that the GOP "didn't just blatantly lie about empirical facts", which is not really the same as saying the quiet part out loud. While I also remember the quiet part aloud phenomenon as more of a progression (they _still_ use a lot of euphemisms and they did say the quiet part aloud about their current focus for hate in earlier times), the blatant lies about empirical facts have a much more pronounced history.
I agree. Trump getting elected didn't happen in a vacuum. The Republicans have been fostering a military that has no accountability and intelligence agencies with no shame, alongside the dems of course. The Patriot Act, the lack of any clear meaningful path to positive change, the use of mercenaries in place of soldiers and drones in place of mortars. All of these and more have led to a Republican party so hellbent on achieving the perfect America they were told about, they are willing to destroy it to do it. Trump was just a symptom of the Republican party going mad and losing any values they had left and the democrats being too weak to stop them
That's how I see it. I'd rather *anyone* be in power than fascists, because the fantasy that so many people on the left have that everyone would rise up - no. Wouldn't happen and if we did, we'd all be slaughtered. The reality is, the US has one of the most capable militaries in the world. It has fucking NUKES. Changing from the inside might be slow and difficult and we may never see the results in time for a lot of us. On the other hand, letting fascists control everything in a bid to accelerate revolution? Will only, literally, end in what the Nazis had in their wildest wet dreams, and possibly worse, as we have access to things they only *dreamed of* for everything from social control propaganda machines to weapons of mass destruction to ways to effectively imprison lots of people etc etc... Giving fascists unmoored from reality and only invested in their extremist version of it national-level power in the US (or to be honest anywhere) is literally loading the gun and firing it into our own heads.
And to be honest, even from an idealist hard left point of view rather than a pragmatic "work with what we got" view I'd in an instant choose having to deal with the state existing/not being ours than being outright fascist. Because a fascist takeover (and look at how close we came, and how close we STILL ARE) won't cause a successful Communist or anarchist counterrevolution. It WILL cause the Fourth Reich.
@@OsefKincaid Just in general or like... specifically in politics? Like, if he thinks spaghetti is gross, does that mean that that opinion becomes the new law? Because that sounds like a hilarious short story concept.
Haven’t watched the vid yet but just saying in advance, as a historian, Trump’s refusal to accept the election + January 6th + his Covid response will all lead to Trump being regarded as one of the worst presidents of all time, if not THE worst.
@Very Sad But you still have to see Presidents in the historical context. Slaughtering Native Americans in this day and age just wouldn´t work like in the 18th hundreds.
@@xXSPADEGG it's pretty anti historic also to judge historical figures based on modern moral standards when a lot of the morally reprehensible political decisions they made were normal and widely supported back then.
@@otto_jk The invasion of Afghanistan was widely supported at the time but it was still morally bankrupt even at the time. Popular support doesn't mean shit. We don't need to reach into the history books to find presidents worse than Trump, there's already a few you can find from the past 50 years. Don't know why you'd assume I'd have to find some president from far back in history that's worse than Trump.
I mean just literally the word “COVID” destroys this whole argument - we don’t have to talk about anything else (even though there is much else to say). Now sure, it wasn’t Trump’s fault that COVID existed, but here’s my question. If they had the resource and scientific support that Trump had, would any president in American history have dealt with COVID worse than Trump? In my opinion, definitely not any recent ones, and probably not any of them.
>would any president in American history have dealt with COVID worse than Trump? i would say reagan is a good contenter given how he completly ignored the AID's epidemic sweeping the country at the time.
Those don't have to be mutually exclusive though. I think the point of Shaun's take is that most people don't realize how awful most US presidents have been, not that Trump wasn't bad.
@@beel8436 policy wise, yeah, sure, but not a single president since Nixon has tried to subvert the laws, norms and basic foundations of Democracy like Trump. That alone makes him worse than the others, because at least the others governed because people were dumb enough to vote for them. Trump tried to maintain power despite being voted out.
@@TreiberSeptim No but you should take a second to think. You just watched a video about this tweet. Why is it only now that you realize that Shaun wasn't saying Trump wasn't bad? Shouldn't this have occurred to you faster? Are you sure you're not letting Vaush think this one instead of you?
@KGB - Komitet Gosudarstvennoy Bezopasnosti maybe not in an economic or political sense, but in a sociological sense it must. Politically it might flip over night. What I mean is, Bernie helped a massive amount of people understand leftist values, even though Trump and Biden won. "Leftists" who undercut Bernie and AOC by calling them fascists and shills only undercut the socialisation of their own movement.
Thanks! It is good to see people who understand this. All those who want to tear down the status quo without a formed, functional alternative are just asking for disaster. So many of the worst events in human history have come about that way. They might not care about the status quote now but they are if forced to exists in some equivalent of Franco's Spain, Papadopoulos's Greece etc it is suddenly going to look a whole lot better.
@@mysticonthehill Yeah we should definitely tear down the status quo without a plan to rebuild but also while fascism has more support than us. By that I mean if we stripped away this system and the socialists and fascists are fighting it out a believe a lot more right leaning people would go for fascism then left leaning would go for socialism. That’s because the right has done a good job of getting their ideas in the mainstream and while fascists countries tend to have similar economic structures they’re mixed economies that are can be flexible in its setup which lessens a barrier of support. Economic systems are built based off of their ability to facilitate ideological ends. Fascism can be reduced to essentially just hating people and thinking you’re the shit, that fit under a lot of economic models and policies because their whole thing is believing it’s the inferior people causing the problems. Whereas socialism is constrained to a much narrower range of economic design to be able to achieve its ideological goals and so while we’ve done a decent job of spreading our ideals, I think we’re awhile away from convincing people of the system in terms of why it’s necessary and that it can work. Market socialism would definitely be an easier sell though.
@@m.robert123 huh? That would literally be that easiest to achieve besides staying liberal(with some improvements). If you think a social democracy isn’t even realistic then we might as well give up on leftism in general because the rest is completely out of the question.
2:11 "The two main things that made Donald Trump exceptionally bad... I mean really really really bad were: A. His normalisation of anti-democratic rhetoric B. His weaponisation of the Republican Party against the institutions meant to facilitate the continued Democratic process" True
@@kap1618 anti Asian argument has been the norm throughout American history, anti non WASP sentiments if I'm being honest! Trump didn't create it, many republicans were calling it the China virus long before he was. Trump is the symptom not the problem!!
@@kap1618 I'm not down playing republicans or Trump, I'm just not pretending that they're the only problem in American politics or that trump is solely to blame for the bigotry within the republican party. Democrats suck and enabled trumps rise to power, trump is part of Obama's neoliberal legacy.
It's annoying from a strategic perspective, but I can't help but feel sympathy for the hatred leftists have towards the democratic party. Afterall, they're incompetence genuinely does look ALOT like they are just controlled opposition for the Republicans, and it is primarily them who fight to keep us as unrepresented as possible. Even if the guys burning down orphanages on the regular are more dangerous and worse people, the guys that shot your dog are probably going to engender ALOT more anger when you see them. This is because people are flawed as fuck, and they generally get more invested in what personally affects their lives then what is actually better or worse. And for a lot of leftists the Dems have done far more to them personally than the Republicans.
That's understandable, but remember what it's like to be a POC or LGBT+ and what they have to worry about, because the Dems, despite being the brainless flogging horse of the "woke agenda", actually put laws in place and act like a buffer to stop the insanely dangerous hatred and intolerance of GOP policy. That means far more than the Clinton team fucking over Sanders, or even dismissing M4A to some extent (although that absolutely must change)
@@marciamakesmusic previous presidents did not try to destroy democracy or hand over picking of justices to the federalist society. Yall who voted against hillary are directly responsible for the fall of America and I hope you remember that when the fascists put you against the wall
We in the UK had our own forever socialist, nice old guy win leadership of the nominally left of centre party. It was a disaster! He was relentlessly attacked by the majority of his own party and the liberal side of the mainstream media to the point he could barely move for knives in his back. And that didn't stop even after he unexpectedly denied the conservatives a majority in parliament. The outcome has been that since he was ousted the labour party has been so focused on making sure that no left of centre person ever gains power again that they've given up on little things like challenging the torys or winning the next election, or the election after that. The idea that someone like Jerramy Corbin could become prime minister was far more horrifying to a lot of the elected labour party than another 20 years of tory rule. And the Labour party has way more actual socialists than the Dems, they are literally funded by the Union movement. Do you really think all the corporate-funded Dems would have happily rallied around Burnie just cause he got nominated as presidential candidate? They would have been working harder to bring him down than fox news ever could have hoped to. Even if he'd somehow won the presidency he would have been blocked at every turn by his own congress people siding with the republicans against him. And then after they'd engineered his failure they would have set about making sure no one like him ever got close to the presidency again. You need a solid base of support within the elected party before you get even a moderate socdem as leader without having them taken down from within. Realistically Biden is the most left you can hope for from an effective presidency in my view. Suck it up, and work to drive the wedge in a little deeper next time.
that wall analogy is actually really perfect, though to add, its obviously a wall we need to be able to take down once the fascists die out, because that wall still upholds capitalism.
Please don't give the Pre-Trump Republicans any kind of credit, they were just as awful, possibly even more so in that they were better at playing respectability politics. Plus that whole iraq/afghan war thing, kind of fucked up our culture majorly in ways we're still struggling with. They laid the groundwork for someone like trump in the first place.
Biden pretty thoroughly purged Trumpist appointees from the federal government in his first six months; and passed dozens of Executive Actions restoring Obama’s legacy (which was sabotaged by Trump) but you can’t bring back the half a million people killed by Covid
@@MindForgedManacle i could have easily seen that happening under a bush, cruz, romney, or rubio presidency. I mean look at how badly bush botched katrina, and how many people died due of aids because of reagan. This is not to downplay how bad trump was. Just an indictment on the sad state of affairs due to how bad the republican party is.
The disonance between Shaun's legitimately fantastic videos and his absolutely braindead behaviour of Twitter is too much for me. I actually just can't believe it's the same person doing the two things. It just feels like it goes so far beyond "people are dumb on Twitter sometimes".
@@slavkocupic843 I barely even remember it, though I think it was something like this. I wouldn't hold it against him now though, cis people were really deeply unaware how bad she was
@@questionablebackyardmeows of course but it does explain to me why he talks about Rowling like jilted ex-lover.It's very off-putting lately,he focuses too much on dumb baby diaper hogwarts game and not on bigger issues at hand. But then again rowling isn't a saint.
And what was one man to do against a worldwide pandemic? I'm no fan of sumo but only idiots blame him for a foreign virus. If there was a "CORRECT" response to the pandemic it wouldn't have became worldwide.
@@happy5558 He could have not politicized the pandemic. He could of agreed to work with Democrats on the pandemic. He could have told republican governors to take the pandemic seriously. He could have not made wearing a mask political.
@@happy5558 I'm not suggesting he could have personally stopped a pandemic, but a) he had the full force of the U.S. government behind anything he decided to do, so I reject the notion of it just being one man vs. the world, and b) there's a version of a pandemic response that doesn't result in 650,000 dead Americans, one that requires a more active effort at crisis management than casually suggesting people inject themselves with bleach.
Yeah, I'm still sad that Virgil left. I used to like listening to Matt Christman's takes, but now I just can't listen to his doomer tankie rhetoric about video games and demsocs. I haven't listened in months.
@@keldencowan hell of presidents rocks and I still really enjoy the cushvlogs, but when it comes to anything modern they’re giant cowards and are afraid to care & get embarassed. Their nihilism is just cope. 2016/2020 were amazing starts but we lost. This is a project that’s going to take years and years but we’re in a better position now. we just have to keep building.
the semantic definition of "Average" is doing a lot leg work in this discussion, Vaush & Shaun should quit being so Passive Aggressive towards each other and talk it out webcam to skull icon live.
You hit the nail on the head with what my feelings of Chapo Trap House is, they are hilarious mocking Liberals, Conservatives and Fascists but then act as if the 6/1 attempted coup was nothing substantial or that Trump committing a quid pro quo over the Ukraine thing isn't worth Democrats kicking up a fuss.
I like and still listen to Chapo but definitely treat it like entertainment rather than gospel because I literally cannot drag my brain into the liberals are worse than conservatives way of thinking. We've got conservatives around who think that trump will be "reinstated" any day now, believing there are microchips in vaccines, we can't survive crazy like that.
Shaun will be sitting in a literal concentration camp going "Oh, you think this is bad? Pfff, I guess you never heard about japanese interment? Trail of tears? This is pretty par for the course here in America."
News flash: Concentration camps will exist under Democratic or Republican presidents if it is profitable for them to exist. Both parties are explicitly neoliberal bourgeois parties in service of capital. The very same camps that leftists cried about day in and day out under Trump were built by Obama and still exist under Biden.
I don't think his point was that Trump wasn't bad. I think his point was that Trump was the one that admittedly got under everyone's skin, even though he did shit of the same alarming nature as every other president. Horrible foreign policy, classist ideas, racist system upholding-even the worsening of. Every single president hits all or one of these marks, not none. It's a problem not just with Trump, but our presidents in general. Shaun got the reaction he wanted. Replying to no one and saying "Trump was average" is apparently worthy of a 25 min rant
@@nathanielchieffallo4273 This is gonna come off as rude, but do you have no respect for other peoples intelligence whatsoever? Like do you think I struggle to dress or feed myself? Because everything you have written here is FUCKING OBVIOUS TO EVERYONE! We are all aware that the previous presidents also are scum and should be in jail. Like do you think we were asleep during the Bush years or the Obama years? And why is it so fucking hard for you to recognize while that is true, it's also true that Trump was WAY WAY WORSE?
My main issue with that argument is the "recent" qualifier. I heard someone say Trump probably wasn't the worst president, because under our modern lense US presidents have been pretty fucked up for anyone that wasn't "American" enough. I think it was Eisenhower that put Hispanic people on trains and dumped them into Mexico, regardless of nationality or heritage.
Yeah I think the problem is that "recent" to most people means the last 2 administration's but in what I'd consider modern politics Trump is bad but honestly pretty average for republican fare.
I think I am going to ask the question that I really don't think anyone wants to ask in these moments. What is the line the fascist republicans can cross to where it becomes necessary that we flee this country? I say this because awhile ago I said the line was "electing a completely out and about racist fascist for president"; yet, I'm still here. After that, I thought "surely, the line is putting people in concentration camps"; yet, I'm still here. Finally, I thought "if they attempt a coup on the US government, I am leaving"; yet, I'm still here. It's here that I thought about people living in Germany in the 1930s and what their lines must have been; they weren't that dissimilar to mine. But when they finally came about, nobody sprang into action; they just moved the line back just like I did. By the time the lines of subjugation and cruelty towards them came, it was already to late. So here I ask, what should the real line be?
Trump was categorically worse than any president in recent history. Saying that he was an "average president," "par for the course," etc, is rehabilitating him. Just an unambiguous L for Shaun here
Just like Fascist use conservatives until they are no longer useful, Socialist should use Liberals to reach our goals until it's viable to drop them from the conversation. Walnuts from Plants vs Zombies was a great analogy.
Exactly, but some people still have raging TDS so any mention of Trump that isn't 100% unambiguously negative gets you thrown in front of the Twitter firing squad
@@marciamakesmusic I think you misunderstand. I'm accusing Shaun of having APDS - 'all president derangement syndrome'. He's saying all presidents have been bad. Trump is unequivocally bad - saying so isn't 'TDS'. That term was invented to pretend that criticism of Trump wasn't rational. Don't stoop to the level of Tucker Carlson and don't pretend that Vaush is here demanding that Trump be unfairly condemned no matter what.
It's like walking into a room full of obese people and saying someone is average of people in that room and idiots thinking that they just said that person isn't overweight lol.
I also remember my republican family before and after trump. Trump literally brainwashed them and it's fucking heartbreaking. Like they aren't even functional people anymore and now they run an extreme risk to dying from covid.
How do you make Republicans irrelevant? Address Gerrymandering by passing independent redistricting laws through referendum. That's how. And big streamers could incentivize their audience to do so.
i mean i can see his point looking from the outside, trump's foreign affair policies were sort of the same as before. he's no reagan, clinton or bush (absolutely awful), but he's still pretty average (very bad) for an american president. what really does scare me about trump is the movement he inspired, specially here in latam since we got a couple of pretty bad imitators lol. see bolsonaro or añez, ultra christian conservative leaders. but then again, trump himself isn't really the problem there, he literally came out of nowhere in 2016, i'm more scared of the steve bannon types that are behind of these pseudo fascistic leaders.
Trump has managed to latch on to the anti-government feeling (anger, fear) that's always been there but was exacerbated by Ruby Ridge and Waco (and the world becoming increasingly complex, interconnected, and non local).
I think it's time for the left to make proper distinctions between leftists, and *anti-liberals.* We can't afford to have the latter group hold us back from pushing progress in this country.
The "alex jones rhetoric is pretty much mainstream" thing is still weird to me. I remember when i was down that rabbit hole and right wingers i talked to thought I was nutty for talking about conspiracy theories that are pretty mainstream now. Now I'm "pro government" because I'm a little too skeptical of the flat earth adrenachrome conspiracy theories.
I hate Trump more than Bush because even though Bush killed more people, Trump’s failures got more of his citizens killed and negatively impacted me and my family. I know that what Bush did to Iraq was far worse, I’m not going to act like I suffered more than the Iraqis, but I almost died from Covid and I almost lost my grandfather to Covid as well. So I have a personal attachment to Trump’s failures that I don’t have to Bush’s failures. Trump’s actions lead to me, and people I personally know getting hurt. Both deserve to to be prosecuted for what they did, it’s just that try as I might, I cannot remove my personal bias due to my own personal experiences. If that makes me a right-wing nationalist who isn’t socialisty enough because I can’t be a leftist Vulcan, then maybe we need to brush up on our understanding of human psychology.
And that's exactly why Americans think Trump was worse, he directly affected them in a tangible way, whereas most previous administration were too busy wreaking havoc on foreign soils. Not to say Bush's policies didn't fuck the American people by causing the recession but most people don't really acknowledge that.
So, I live in Italy and I have watched January 6 happen live through the CNN coverage. I gotta say that many Americans don't realise how fucked the whole thing is and how fragile American democracy has shown to be in respect to European ones. Don't get me wrong, the Italian conservative parties are pretty extreme already, but the magnitude of what's happening in the USA is unheard of. A couple of weeks ago, a no mask protest which was planned by Forza Nuova, an explicitly fascist party, attacked a building which was owned by a very important workers' union. Right now, the Parlament has voted in unison (so, even the right wing parties agreed to this) in order to dismantle Forza Nuova and seize everything they own. It's a stark contrast to what has been happening in the USA, which has suffered a far worse attack and still has one half of the Parliament supporting the people in it.
Shaun isn't /that/ wrong about Trump when it comes to policy, he ended up being a pretty standard neocon. However, the effect Trump had on the political culture is super profound. Was his rhetoric and behavior new for the Republican party? Not really, it was something that had been brewing for a while especially during the Obama years. But he latched onto it and brought it to the mainstream. Trump ripped the mask off and people *loved* him for that. Conspiracy theories became much more mainstream; Qanon went from some dumb meme on 4chan to being a cult talked about on cable news, people like MTG and Madison Cawthron are being elected into our government, Alex Jones was friends with Trump ffs. These things would not have had happened with Jeb Bush or Mitt Romney, even to policy wise they would've been about the same.
The easiest way to answer that question would be to ask yourself if 600,000+ people would be dead and would there be a coup attempt if Hilary had lost.
I mean, Biden is treating the pandemic like it's over even though people are still getting sick and dying and the eviction moratorium is ending, but...sure.
@@PhoenixRising87 .....Where did I mention Biden? Is Biden saying not to wear a mask? Is Biden pretending the virus isn't a thing? Let's switch them: Would Bide have acted like Trump did?
@@antonioreis8394 true.Shaun is one of the channels I'd recommend to reactionaries & right wingers cause his videos are really good. But if they see him in twitter man it would be real bad for left as a whole.
I think you have all just like, completely not realized the context that Shaun isnt American, he is British, and frankly, he wasnt that bad for us in a lot of ways? Like he didnt drag us into another war, so objectively for us he wasnt as bad for us as the last republican president...
This thread from Shaun just makes me think that commentary/analysis of American politics is *really* not in his lane/wheelhouse and maybe he should either stay clear of it or maybe chat with a friend who is more knowledgeable on the subject before putting his food in his mouth like this.
Vaush is right on these points imo, but it is very difficult to keep settling for less. Yes I want the Mecha, but the problem is that the Mecha is feeding and sheltering the homeless and the Wall is just a rainbow doritos bag for one month out of the year. The main reason The Wall(tm) is better for me is because I live a privileged enough life not to suffer the consequences of prolonged inaction. It feels like I'm going to be dead by the time we elect a president who isn't either a Nazi or a Corporate Sock Puppet.
He's not saying Trump wasn't bad. He's saying every President in recent memory was just as bad. Reagan, Clinton, Bush, and Obama have all done things as bad or worse, they just weren't as outwardly rude
@@lalitthapa101 Yes but when that belief is expressed using the same words by a plethora of people that just happen to follow the same dude who said it using those words, it starts to look less like a common belief and more like community building.
You're totally forgot the one more representative not just Liz Cheney it's Anthony Gonzalez in Akron he voted 99% on Trump stuff but he voted to teach the president impeach
Wait does Vaush knows that the two Shaun tweets clarifying his point he purposefully didnt read were shown on screen? Really weird how someone who constantly complains about being taken out of context would engage in the same type of technic
@@Kosiduss if he read those two tweets and then went on to say the exact same thing how would it be much different? Maybe he should've, but it is definitely not 'out of context' like you said when Shaun still settles on the same conclusion.
That was actually my sense as I'm seeing policy discussions... This at least isn't the classical republican Biden we've known from his Senate position. I'm holding out for this to be better than Obama, and if it is too bad Biden will be a shell of a man in 3 years
Chapo just does like movie reviews now. They were breaking down shooter last week as the last movie ever made that could show you shooting Dick Cheney or some shit like that
I actually agree with Shaun here. Trump was a pretty average president as an over whelming majority of presidents were pretty garbage. Bush is in the running of top 5 worst presidents ever and Obama may be considered an above average president all things considered. I think Vaush’s description of Republicans in the Bush years were not that different from Republicans today. If trump had 8 years and continued his same actions then yeah he would be worst than average even in US president terms
I think Trump was the worst president we've had domestically, since he brought American Fascism to the forefront, but Bush, for example, was worse abroad
I agree with Shaun here. He's not saying Trump wasn't a bad president, he's saying that recent American presidents have been bad, and thus if you only only at them Trump is average. You guys just see someone say Trump isn't the worst thing to have ever happened to the world and you instantly shut off your brains and froth at the mouth.
I got a ton of heat once for simply using the word "deplorable" in a leftist Facebook group. Apparently Hillary owns the right to that word or something and I'm a liberal for merely using it--no matter the context. The lengths some "leftists" go to try to distinguish themselves from liberals would be hilarious if it ultimately weren't so detrimental to any semblance of cohesion and solidarity within.
Full disclosure, I didn't watch the full clip. But it seems very obvious to me that Shaun and Vaush are both right. Seriously if they had a two minute conversation they'd realise they're completely on the same page.
I feel like at this point Vaush is so alienated by Shaun's (understandable) disapproval of debatebros that he's just going out of his way to be contentious with anything he says lmao. I like them both, and I know Shaun is "edgy" on Twitter but he's often right beneath that layer of callousness. Sheesh why is the left so eager to eat itself
Love your politics Vaush. Thank you for keeping a level head even during chaotic times. I really respect your work, and feel more engaged as a citizen after watching this
The hill rising almost convinced me that Trump was just another bad republican, but then I saw his interview with that Australian dude and that brought me back to reality
To be fair i think he means as a totality, and as an average by american standards. Thats more of a slam on the quality of the federal government as a whole than a rehabilitation of Trump. Also the spartacist thing is not that simple. Ever since lenins loyalists backstabbed Kerensky Socdems have treated tankies the way AFA wants to treat nazis, and with good reason. If you are at all serious about interacting within a democratic framework, tankies need to be dealt with.
Ehh considering what the socdems did to Rosa Luxembourg and then to Germany when they helped the nazis purge the rest of the left, that's a pretty one sided and disingenuous take you have there.
Tbh, those Trump supporters just didn't come out of nowhere, Trump just made them louder. They were there before Trump and they will exist after Trump. They are an american issue, I think, not a Trump issue. Shaun was right
There was a bill the Conservatives pushed through earlier this year under the guise that it was a bill to “protect women” & make “prosecution easier” but the bill did none of this. All it did was… wait for it… protect statues.
Because everyone knows that Hitler (and Trump 🙄) are bad, no one needs to hear it again. What they do need to hear is how awful people that they hold up as saints, like Obama, are. Obama was a warcriminal many times over and pretty fucking awful domestically as well.
It’s not trying to rehabilitate trump at least to me I read that tweet as trying to point out how a lot of policies people got upset about during the trump White House are systemic and that people shouldn’t just check out because Biden is in the office now because a lot of these policies didn’t start with trump and don’t end with him being gone.
@@marciamakesmusic He is 100% wrong, Trump did some of the most horrible sht in 1 term, and people are trying to equate him with the most horrible dictators that have been leading for 40 years. It is sad how pathetically easy it is to brainwash the left wing. He got impeached twice, and that is far from the most horrible thing he did in only 4 years. Every week some massive thing was going on.
Even Kyle doesn’t say that trump was an “average bad” president. But then there’s nuances to even Shaun’s argument because like most of the first 15 presidents had slaves. So it depends on what metrics he’s using
The best thing I can say about Shaun is he has a really good ghostwriter for his TH-cam channel... That or a really bad one for his twitter
It's all Jen or something.
I think he just fails to register a position unless its in an hour-long format.
@@Nyanx4 Jen isn't his co-worker anymore and, even when she was, she did 20% of the work. Though it is telling of lefties that, when they stop liking a guy, they look for a woman they can attribute the accomplishments to.
I'll eat my word if I'm wrong. But I don't think there's a conspiracy here. Shaun is a braying jackass on twitter; but he produces good work. He's not the first and he won't be the last and if he was less spiteful, if he didn't use twitter, nobody would be trying to associate Shaun's work with Jen.
@@Joseph-cq3ij It's telling that when someone says something online you don't like you attribute it to ALL leftists.
It's almost like he doesn't put much time and research into what he tweets as he does in the scripts for his videos.
Crazy, right?
Every once-in-a-whole I forget that Trump used to be President and this is when I’m most at peace
How could you forget the coup de grace to the Republican Party and, well… The COUP????
Should probably remember since he's still able to run again, and an election loss doesn't exactly guarantee him staying out of power, as we've seen...
@@videogameguy101 I have the memory of a goldfish. Probably trauma-related.
I do like not seeing his face every time I go on twitter
You are joking I assume but it makes me laugh when people are so consumed by politics they cry when a leader is elected but their lives don't even change in the slightest, I assume the only thing that directly affected you from the trump era was his supporters triggering you? I could be wrong.
as a self identified leftist who isnt allowed to call themselves left because leftist gatekeeping, i had a supposed leftist unironically tell me they couldnt tell the difference between liberals and fascists. that kinda shit is why we only ever lose.
I see this a lot. I'm a social democrat and although it is a left wing ideology(be it not that far info the left), its still in the left. And I've been told by these purists that socdem isn't left wing.
Like,I just can't anymore. Its better to being anyone remortely close to the left cause the way I see it the left is an umbrella for numerous ideologies but all in the end come under leftism.
Gatekeeping & excluding some ideologies is just not it.
I have always noticed people like Non Compete and Bad Empanada who say that turn out to be these weird anarchists tankie apologists. Non Compete especially since he doesnt at all disagree with Luna Oi despite her being delusional like how she believes that China's poverty rate is at 0 percent and that means everyone does well there likes it's a utopia with no genocide going on.
Liberal: I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Fascist: I disagree with what you say, and for that reason I will now fight you to the death.
That’s a big difference right there.
@@christopherjustice6411 that's actually a brilliant one.
Also,liberals don't advocate for the literal genocide of a group😂
I mean the people who couldn't tell the difference most likely know nothing about what they claim to be and just joined cause they liked the esthetics
@@dragonborn3609 that's why Hakim gives me bad vibes too. No,I can't watch his videos knowing he's a genocide denier.
He can make the best videos ever and I'll still never respect him.
Judges, judges, judges. The federal judicial appointments are going to be hurting POCs and economically vulnerable with corporate favoritism for DECADES.
Is this any different from, say, W or Reagan or any other Bush or any other Republican who would be in that office? That's a pretty good argument for around average.
@@dirkturtle3354 Unironically this.
@@dirkturtle3354 Yes, because they're worse than ever before.
yeah every president has appointed terrible judges. this supports shaun's argument lol
@@MoonatikYT Not always, it it weren’t for the liberal justices and Kennedy, gay marriage wouldn’t be legal nationwide and there wouldn’t be federal workplace protections for LGBTQ people. But conservatives have gained much more power in the courts because they started planning long term since the 70s with the federalist society while liberals aren’t even close to organized in this aspect.
"Think of them as barriers we erect between ourselves and a death camp." Goddamn that is succinct.
i think of the dems like marshmellow stuffing they arent aggressive but they are useful as placeholders
Libs are well known for stopping the creation of death camps.
I mean, when I look at economics, foreign policy, and social issues, Trump wasn't that different from any other politican. But when I look at how he made Republicans go absolutely nuts, that's when I realize the harm he did.
Well, in 2016 the Republicans did try to moderate certain positions (like on immigration). Trump just got the radicals to support him and made everyone go nuts.
His followers have a parasocial relationship with him. That's a social issue
Are they really more nuts than they were during the Obama years? During the Bush years when they were arguing that letting gay people marry would be like letting people marry their dogs and they were all open neocons? When did this "sane" GOP ever actually exist? They've been awful forever.
William Cowhey I don't think anyone is debating that, the difference is that Trump enabled the radical elements of his base like no one else before. Bush and even the Tea Party didn't signal to nigh-paramilitary fascist organizations and claim the government needed to be overthrown.
His policies were pretty much par for the conservative Republican course. Him personally, that's a different story. The noise which propels his few policies is terrible.
That's not too far off from what Shaun is twittering.
I was on a date with this leftist the other day and we talked about content creators we liked. And I mentioned that I like Vaush. And then they were like in shock. It was almost as if I told them I was a Ben Shapiro fan or something. And then later I learned that their only gripe with Vaush was that he once said "If Marx was alive, he would have voted Biden" and I started laughing out loud.
Oh my God! Like okay, Biden is the textbook definition of a centrist or fish hook theory or horseshoe theory or whatever buzzword we're currently giving to fence-straddlers, but next to Adolph Hitler's reincarnation? He's pretty much the only choice. I hate the two party system as much as anybody else, but come on. Was your date a 'Bernie or Bust' type, or just a stick your head in the sand until a good candidate comes along type?
@@Wendy_O._Koopa I'm pretty sure they're one of them European lefties/communist who can't really understand American politics because it's so much more far right than ours. So they don't understand that you could only choose between two politicians.
I suspect if someone doesn't like Vaush, they have more than a few uncharitable takes on him
Well, yeah, but most people begin and end at calling him a pedophile. I don't know if you've seen the video where Vaush reacts to Shoe0nHead completely, almost _maliciously_ misunderstanding something Big Joel said... but it's basically like that. Most people get mad at really bizarre conclusions they've reached from misunderstanding him, or the more honest ones (I guess) admit that they disagree with something he actually said because, hey, opinions are still a thing.
But anyone who doesn't think Trump is worse than Biden is a conservative. I don't care what alignment they to have, they're either full-on, or a closet conservative... so now I'm left wondering if Shaun is really the one smart republican, creating a covert pipeline... very slowly.
I think the fact that you ran to a comment section to post this says more about you than them
Whenever someone says “Both parties are the same” I always know that they are politically illiterate
They are. Tell me deference when democrats bomb civilians in the middle east vs when Republicans do it.
@@Alex393-e5g Both parties do bad things is not the same thing as both parties are the same. Also saying both parties aren't the same does not mean that 1 party is actually good. Both parties can be generally bad but one is better than the other. The Democratic party needs a lot of work but saying they are just as bad as Republicans is not true and not helpful
@@Alex393-e5g distilling the entirety politics into a single issue position is about as juvenile as it gets by excluding any room for nuance whatsoever. Trump droned more people in his single term than Bush and Obama did combined in 16 years, but not being an absolute fuckwit doesn’t get you likes on twitter does it
Demicans and republicrats. Wings of the same bird.
@@Alex393-e5g I mean Trump actively drone striked more than Obama as well as increased opacity through executive orders...thats a difference right there on top of how dems arent anywhere near the same level as ratcheting up holy war/xenophobic bs that justifies the bombings. But your question is asking whats the difference in this specific aspect and ignores all of the other aspects involved with dem/rep leadership so its a pointless question right off the bat.
I was old enough and fully politically aware during the Bush years. I disagree with Vaush: even if on a smaller scale, _all_ of the insanity and depravity and reality-denial of the modern Republican party was already there.
Even at the top. The Bush-era neocons wanted to restore US full-spectrum dominance, but it was a Potemkin project. The Iraq War was as much about a scammy demonstration of US military power to other great powers by eliminating a toothless opponent as about oil. To get that war, they famously massaged intelligence to claim Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. What younger people (and older Americans only exposed to US MSM at the time) perhaps don't fully appreciate is how obvious it was _in advance_ that the WMD "evidence" is BS (which is why Europeans picked it apart and France & Germany opposed the war).
What younger people also may not remember is that after the defeat of Saddam and the quick unravelling of the occupation, the neocons kept pushing other fantasies in denial of reality. They linked Saddam's regime to al-Qaida, then put off all armed resistance to the occupation as disgruntled members of the former regime (rather than resistance from all sorts of people outraged by the conduct of the US and its allies), then pretended that all the armed actions come from Sunnis while the civil war was brewing, then when al-Sadr rose they pretended he is a puppet of Iran (when in fact al-Sadr's was the most Iraqi-nationalist Shi'a faction and the US's own allies have been in Iranian exile). Needless to say, all this denial of reality was quite counter-productive to the neocons' own goals, because they ensured a permanent bad assessment of the situation, from the top to the bottom (because the US soldiers fighting on the ground also succumbed to the fantasies of who they are fighting against and why).
Throughout this time, the same legions of right-wingers in internet comments as today gave a full-throated defence of every propaganda lie, adding their own dumbed-down takes to it, and ganging up on anyone with a voice of reason.
This is just one (at the time, the top) subject in which the Republicans acted in total denial of reality 18 years ago already. The GOP has been completely (and I mean literally 100%) rotten at least since the start of the Bush years, arguably since the Gingrich years.
It's true that Republicans have always been based on blatant lies and propaganda, but even four years ago the GOP didn't just blatantly lie about empirical facts the way they do now. Do you remember back in 2015 when Trump was running for office, how much he stood out and how much even people like Bill O'Reilly sometimes tried to restrain him a bit? Now, the only "normal" one is heccin Mitt Romney, and look how he's treated by his own party. A lot of it is just that now they're saying the quiet part out loud, but I think it really does matter.
@@orangenostril Again, from the way I remember the Republicans 5 years ago and 10 years ago and 20 years ago and 30 years ago, I can only see a difference in magnitude, not one in quality. What I described re the Iraq war were blatant lies about empirical facts (lies which killed hundreds of thousands, I must add), defended with the full arsenal of the GOP propaganda machine, and defended by the faithful with full-blown conspiracy theories long after it became obvious that they were lies (much in the vein of Qanon).
To me, back in 2015, Trump did not stand out _that_ much: the entire crop of candidates was a freakshow, Trump was just the dumbest and most reckless and thus the most obvious, and he showed some of the old farts like Bill O'Reilly that they don't have to be as subtle as they used to be.
@@Daneelro What do you mean by magnitude? Like I said, I think them feeling free to say the quiet part out loud really does matter quite a bit
@@orangenostril I was responding to your claim that the GOP "didn't just blatantly lie about empirical facts", which is not really the same as saying the quiet part out loud. While I also remember the quiet part aloud phenomenon as more of a progression (they _still_ use a lot of euphemisms and they did say the quiet part aloud about their current focus for hate in earlier times), the blatant lies about empirical facts have a much more pronounced history.
I agree. Trump getting elected didn't happen in a vacuum. The Republicans have been fostering a military that has no accountability and intelligence agencies with no shame, alongside the dems of course. The Patriot Act, the lack of any clear meaningful path to positive change, the use of mercenaries in place of soldiers and drones in place of mortars. All of these and more have led to a Republican party so hellbent on achieving the perfect America they were told about, they are willing to destroy it to do it. Trump was just a symptom of the Republican party going mad and losing any values they had left and the democrats being too weak to stop them
"A big dumb wall between us and fascism" - now I'll never stop looking at Dems this way lmao.
That's how I see it. I'd rather *anyone* be in power than fascists, because the fantasy that so many people on the left have that everyone would rise up - no. Wouldn't happen and if we did, we'd all be slaughtered.
The reality is, the US has one of the most capable militaries in the world. It has fucking NUKES. Changing from the inside might be slow and difficult and we may never see the results in time for a lot of us.
On the other hand, letting fascists control everything in a bid to accelerate revolution? Will only, literally, end in what the Nazis had in their wildest wet dreams, and possibly worse, as we have access to things they only *dreamed of* for everything from social control propaganda machines to weapons of mass destruction to ways to effectively imprison lots of people etc etc...
Giving fascists unmoored from reality and only invested in their extremist version of it national-level power in the US (or to be honest anywhere) is literally loading the gun and firing it into our own heads.
And to be honest, even from an idealist hard left point of view rather than a pragmatic "work with what we got" view I'd in an instant choose having to deal with the state existing/not being ours than being outright fascist.
Because a fascist takeover (and look at how close we came, and how close we STILL ARE) won't cause a successful Communist or anarchist counterrevolution. It WILL cause the Fourth Reich.
"I'm not like other leftists."
- Shaun
Unfortunately, I don't even know if that's true.
@@ImaginaryMdA it isnt
@@ImaginaryMdA He certainly wants it to be. Or at least he wants to sound like it.
For future reference, if you disagree with Shaun, you are wrong :)
@@OsefKincaid Just in general or like... specifically in politics?
Like, if he thinks spaghetti is gross, does that mean that that opinion becomes the new law? Because that sounds like a hilarious short story concept.
Haven’t watched the vid yet but just saying in advance, as a historian, Trump’s refusal to accept the election + January 6th + his Covid response will all lead to Trump being regarded as one of the worst presidents of all time, if not THE worst.
@Very Sad he is one of the worst, it's simple. He wasn't average he is up there with Andrew jackson, Franklin Pierce, and James Buchanan.
Calling him THE WORST is pretty anti-historic dude, he's up there but to call him the worst is pretty ridiculous.
@Very Sad But you still have to see Presidents in the historical context. Slaughtering Native Americans in this day and age just wouldn´t work like in the 18th hundreds.
@@xXSPADEGG it's pretty anti historic also to judge historical figures based on modern moral standards when a lot of the morally reprehensible political decisions they made were normal and widely supported back then.
@@otto_jk The invasion of Afghanistan was widely supported at the time but it was still morally bankrupt even at the time. Popular support doesn't mean shit. We don't need to reach into the history books to find presidents worse than Trump, there's already a few you can find from the past 50 years. Don't know why you'd assume I'd have to find some president from far back in history that's worse than Trump.
I mean just literally the word “COVID” destroys this whole argument - we don’t have to talk about anything else (even though there is much else to say). Now sure, it wasn’t Trump’s fault that COVID existed, but here’s my question. If they had the resource and scientific support that Trump had, would any president in American history have dealt with COVID worse than Trump? In my opinion, definitely not any recent ones, and probably not any of them.
By recent ones, you mean non republicans?
@@niclaswerther1569 Nah, even Bush wouldve handled covid infinitely better than Trump, and Bush sucks.
Woodrow Wilson comes immediately to mind given what happened with the Spanish Flu.
>would any president in American history have dealt with COVID worse than Trump?
i would say reagan is a good contenter given how he completly ignored the AID's epidemic sweeping the country at the time.
Reagan
The funniest thing is that there’s a tweet where shaun warns that the media is gonna downplay how bad Trump was, like they did with Bush.
Those don't have to be mutually exclusive though. I think the point of Shaun's take is that most people don't realize how awful most US presidents have been, not that Trump wasn't bad.
yeah i am with william most presidents were bad not that trump was the worst one. He was in line with many.
@@beel8436 policy wise, yeah, sure, but not a single president since Nixon has tried to subvert the laws, norms and basic foundations of Democracy like Trump. That alone makes him worse than the others, because at least the others governed because people were dumb enough to vote for them. Trump tried to maintain power despite being voted out.
Hypocrisy is bad but it is weirdly funny seeing it
@@TreiberSeptim No but you should take a second to think. You just watched a video about this tweet. Why is it only now that you realize that Shaun wasn't saying Trump wasn't bad? Shouldn't this have occurred to you faster? Are you sure you're not letting Vaush think this one instead of you?
Until socialism gains enough support I want this country to be liberal or socially democratic. That just makes sense.
@KGB - Komitet Gosudarstvennoy Bezopasnosti maybe not in an economic or political sense, but in a sociological sense it must. Politically it might flip over night. What I mean is, Bernie helped a massive amount of people understand leftist values, even though Trump and Biden won. "Leftists" who undercut Bernie and AOC by calling them fascists and shills only undercut the socialisation of their own movement.
Thanks! It is good to see people who understand this. All those who want to tear down the status quo without a formed, functional alternative are just asking for disaster. So many of the worst events in human history have come about that way. They might not care about the status quote now but they are if forced to exists in some equivalent of Franco's Spain, Papadopoulos's Greece etc it is suddenly going to look a whole lot better.
@@mysticonthehill Yeah we should definitely tear down the status quo without a plan to rebuild but also while fascism has more support than us. By that I mean if we stripped away this system and the socialists and fascists are fighting it out a believe a lot more right leaning people would go for fascism then left leaning would go for socialism. That’s because the right has done a good job of getting their ideas in the mainstream and while fascists countries tend to have similar economic structures they’re mixed economies that are can be flexible in its setup which lessens a barrier of support. Economic systems are built based off of their ability to facilitate ideological ends. Fascism can be reduced to essentially just hating people and thinking you’re the shit, that fit under a lot of economic models and policies because their whole thing is believing it’s the inferior people causing the problems.
Whereas socialism is constrained to a much narrower range of economic design to be able to achieve its ideological goals and so while we’ve done a decent job of spreading our ideals, I think we’re awhile away from convincing people of the system in terms of why it’s necessary and that it can work. Market socialism would definitely be an easier sell though.
socially democratic seems like a pipe dream atm
@@m.robert123 huh? That would literally be that easiest to achieve besides staying liberal(with some improvements). If you think a social democracy isn’t even realistic then we might as well give up on leftism in general because the rest is completely out of the question.
2:11 "The two main things that made Donald Trump exceptionally bad... I mean really really really bad were:
A. His normalisation of anti-democratic rhetoric
B. His weaponisation of the Republican Party against the institutions meant to facilitate the continued Democratic process"
True
So... things previous republican presidents did!🙃🙃
@@nataliekhanyola5669 how about the rise is anti Asian American sentiment.
@@kap1618 anti Asian argument has been the norm throughout American history, anti non WASP sentiments if I'm being honest! Trump didn't create it, many republicans were calling it the China virus long before he was. Trump is the symptom not the problem!!
@@nataliekhanyola5669 yeah and lefties downplaying Republicans and trump is still a bad thing. Maybe have positions besides "both parties bad."
@@kap1618 I'm not down playing republicans or Trump, I'm just not pretending that they're the only problem in American politics or that trump is solely to blame for the bigotry within the republican party.
Democrats suck and enabled trumps rise to power, trump is part of Obama's neoliberal legacy.
I have Shaun's videos to thank for turning me to the left
This is a rough watch
Same. Kinda hurts to know he's such a jackass on twitter. I guess its easier to handle your emotions in essay format.
I feel you, Peter Coffin's videos taught me a lot as I got further left, and now look at them....
Idk vaush hasn’t t really sold me on this
@@sunnohh Me neither. But his parasocialized audience would have you believing otherwise.
Same here. I dont care that his opinion is wrong, hes not even an American. He still makes great and important videos.
I’m convinced Twitter just makes ppls takes worse because even on twitch Shaun has way more nuance in his takes than this
No matter what your ideology is, there is a worse, dumber version of it on Twitter.
Roughly 200 characters doesn't work outside of poetry.
It's annoying from a strategic perspective, but I can't help but feel sympathy for the hatred leftists have towards the democratic party. Afterall, they're incompetence genuinely does look ALOT like they are just controlled opposition for the Republicans, and it is primarily them who fight to keep us as unrepresented as possible.
Even if the guys burning down orphanages on the regular are more dangerous and worse people, the guys that shot your dog are probably going to engender ALOT more anger when you see them. This is because people are flawed as fuck, and they generally get more invested in what personally affects their lives then what is actually better or worse. And for a lot of leftists the Dems have done far more to them personally than the Republicans.
That's understandable, but remember what it's like to be a POC or LGBT+ and what they have to worry about, because the Dems, despite being the brainless flogging horse of the "woke agenda", actually put laws in place and act like a buffer to stop the insanely dangerous hatred and intolerance of GOP policy. That means far more than the Clinton team fucking over Sanders, or even dismissing M4A to some extent (although that absolutely must change)
He isn't saying Trump "wasn't that bad". He's just saying that "average" really is that bad
Don't know why it's so hard to get this.
@@marciamakesmusic previous presidents did not try to destroy democracy or hand over picking of justices to the federalist society. Yall who voted against hillary are directly responsible for the fall of America and I hope you remember that when the fascists put you against the wall
It remains an erroneous statement. Trump was a uniquely bad president for several reasons.
We in the UK had our own forever socialist, nice old guy win leadership of the nominally left of centre party. It was a disaster! He was relentlessly attacked by the majority of his own party and the liberal side of the mainstream media to the point he could barely move for knives in his back. And that didn't stop even after he unexpectedly denied the conservatives a majority in parliament. The outcome has been that since he was ousted the labour party has been so focused on making sure that no left of centre person ever gains power again that they've given up on little things like challenging the torys or winning the next election, or the election after that. The idea that someone like Jerramy Corbin could become prime minister was far more horrifying to a lot of the elected labour party than another 20 years of tory rule. And the Labour party has way more actual socialists than the Dems, they are literally funded by the Union movement. Do you really think all the corporate-funded Dems would have happily rallied around Burnie just cause he got nominated as presidential candidate? They would have been working harder to bring him down than fox news ever could have hoped to. Even if he'd somehow won the presidency he would have been blocked at every turn by his own congress people siding with the republicans against him. And then after they'd engineered his failure they would have set about making sure no one like him ever got close to the presidency again. You need a solid base of support within the elected party before you get even a moderate socdem as leader without having them taken down from within. Realistically Biden is the most left you can hope for from an effective presidency in my view. Suck it up, and work to drive the wedge in a little deeper next time.
The Chad big Joel vs the virgin Shaun
i thought they were the same person for a while ......
@@reform-revolution I thought José & big Joel were the same people😂
Sigma male BIG JOEL destroys beta male shaun with FACTS and LOGIC
true! but why?
@@jlp6864 did you watch the fucking video ?
that wall analogy is actually really perfect, though to add, its obviously a wall we need to be able to take down once the fascists die out, because that wall still upholds capitalism.
"was Trump really that bad?" is not the point. The point is that every US president has sucked.
10000000% That's what makes Trump average, to a little below. The bar is so low.
Even if we were to accept that claim, Trump is measurably worse than any president in the last 50 years at least.
Please don't give the Pre-Trump Republicans any kind of credit, they were just as awful, possibly even more so in that they were better at playing respectability politics. Plus that whole iraq/afghan war thing, kind of fucked up our culture majorly in ways we're still struggling with. They laid the groundwork for someone like trump in the first place.
Thank you! Finally someone said it.
Shaun should remove his Twitter link on his TH-cam. His channel and his Twitter are two completely different people
All the other leftubers too tbh...
This might be a cringe take, but John McCain was probably the last decent Republican. He was actually to the left of Obama on immigration.
Agreed.
the bar is in hell for "decent"
Um…
Sarah palin
Bomb bomb Iran
Years of graft and corruption
Policy-wise Trump barely achieved anything that couldn't be easily reversed, but his impact on politics is worse than any other president.
620K+ people awaiting their easily reversible Covid deaths
Biden pretty thoroughly purged Trumpist appointees from the federal government in his first six months; and passed dozens of Executive Actions restoring Obama’s legacy (which was sabotaged by Trump) but you can’t bring back the half a million people killed by Covid
@@MindForgedManacle i could have easily seen that happening under a bush, cruz, romney, or rubio presidency. I mean look at how badly bush botched katrina, and how many people died due of aids because of reagan. This is not to downplay how bad trump was. Just an indictment on the sad state of affairs due to how bad the republican party is.
@@emiliobustamante2401 the trump appointees that matter arent the ones Biden dealt with, its all the judges.
The disonance between Shaun's legitimately fantastic videos and his absolutely braindead behaviour of Twitter is too much for me. I actually just can't believe it's the same person doing the two things. It just feels like it goes so far beyond "people are dumb on Twitter sometimes".
Easy answer. Twitter is bad for you and makes you dumber.
Ah memories. Got my first twitter permaban from replying too harshly to a pro-JK Rowling take of his in like early 2019.
What does replying too harshly mean? You called him the r slur?💀💀💀
@@nessie7306 No, I told him to reconsider his life choices, that got taken as telling him to neck himself
Pro jk rowling take from shaun ? What did he say then
@@slavkocupic843 I barely even remember it, though I think it was something like this. I wouldn't hold it against him now though, cis people were really deeply unaware how bad she was
@@questionablebackyardmeows of course but it does explain to me why he talks about Rowling like jilted ex-lover.It's very off-putting lately,he focuses too much on dumb baby diaper hogwarts game and not on bigger issues at hand. But then again rowling isn't a saint.
I think any discussion about Trump "not being that bad" which doesn't include a recognition and accounting of the covid response is dishonest
And what was one man to do against a worldwide pandemic? I'm no fan of sumo but only idiots blame him for a foreign virus. If there was a "CORRECT" response to the pandemic it wouldn't have became worldwide.
@@happy5558 He could have not politicized the pandemic. He could of agreed to work with Democrats on the pandemic. He could have told republican governors to take the pandemic seriously. He could have not made wearing a mask political.
@@happy5558 I'm not suggesting he could have personally stopped a pandemic, but a) he had the full force of the U.S. government behind anything he decided to do, so I reject the notion of it just being one man vs. the world, and b) there's a version of a pandemic response that doesn't result in 650,000 dead Americans, one that requires a more active effort at crisis management than casually suggesting people inject themselves with bleach.
This describes my biggest problem with the chapo/irony poisoned left. it's more important to them to look 'cool'. lame.
Yeah, I'm still sad that Virgil left. I used to like listening to Matt Christman's takes, but now I just can't listen to his doomer tankie rhetoric about video games and demsocs. I haven't listened in months.
@@keldencowan hell of presidents rocks and I still really enjoy the cushvlogs, but when it comes to anything modern they’re giant cowards and are afraid to care & get embarassed. Their nihilism is just cope. 2016/2020 were amazing starts but we lost. This is a project that’s going to take years and years but we’re in a better position now. we just have to keep building.
the semantic definition of "Average" is doing a lot leg work in this discussion, Vaush & Shaun should quit being so Passive Aggressive towards each other and talk it out webcam to skull icon live.
No, Shaun refuses to talk to any "debate bros" and doesnt talk to anyone outside of "subtle" insults on twitter
@@888Lovisa that's what Passive Aggressiveness is.
You hit the nail on the head with what my feelings of Chapo Trap House is, they are hilarious mocking Liberals, Conservatives and Fascists but then act as if the 6/1 attempted coup was nothing substantial or that Trump committing a quid pro quo over the Ukraine thing isn't worth Democrats kicking up a fuss.
I like and still listen to Chapo but definitely treat it like entertainment rather than gospel because I literally cannot drag my brain into the liberals are worse than conservatives way of thinking. We've got conservatives around who think that trump will be "reinstated" any day now, believing there are microchips in vaccines, we can't survive crazy like that.
Shaun will be sitting in a literal concentration camp going "Oh, you think this is bad? Pfff, I guess you never heard about japanese interment? Trail of tears? This is pretty par for the course here in America."
I read it in his voice lol
News flash: Concentration camps will exist under Democratic or Republican presidents if it is profitable for them to exist. Both parties are explicitly neoliberal bourgeois parties in service of capital. The very same camps that leftists cried about day in and day out under Trump were built by Obama and still exist under Biden.
IT IS PAR FOR THE COURSE LMAO
I don't think his point was that Trump wasn't bad. I think his point was that Trump was the one that admittedly got under everyone's skin, even though he did shit of the same alarming nature as every other president. Horrible foreign policy, classist ideas, racist system upholding-even the worsening of. Every single president hits all or one of these marks, not none. It's a problem not just with Trump, but our presidents in general.
Shaun got the reaction he wanted. Replying to no one and saying "Trump was average" is apparently worthy of a 25 min rant
@@nathanielchieffallo4273 This is gonna come off as rude, but do you have no respect for other peoples intelligence whatsoever? Like do you think I struggle to dress or feed myself?
Because everything you have written here is FUCKING OBVIOUS TO EVERYONE! We are all aware that the previous presidents also are scum and should be in jail. Like do you think we were asleep during the Bush years or the Obama years?
And why is it so fucking hard for you to recognize while that is true, it's also true that Trump was WAY WAY WORSE?
Well, without naming Vaush, Shaun clearly said that he didn't like this kind of channels... No union for all leftists it seems :(
My main issue with that argument is the "recent" qualifier. I heard someone say Trump probably wasn't the worst president, because under our modern lense US presidents have been pretty fucked up for anyone that wasn't "American" enough.
I think it was Eisenhower that put Hispanic people on trains and dumped them into Mexico, regardless of nationality or heritage.
Yeah I think the problem is that "recent" to most people means the last 2 administration's but in what I'd consider modern politics Trump is bad but honestly pretty average for republican fare.
I think I am going to ask the question that I really don't think anyone wants to ask in these moments. What is the line the fascist republicans can cross to where it becomes necessary that we flee this country? I say this because awhile ago I said the line was "electing a completely out and about racist fascist for president"; yet, I'm still here. After that, I thought "surely, the line is putting people in concentration camps"; yet, I'm still here. Finally, I thought "if they attempt a coup on the US government, I am leaving"; yet, I'm still here. It's here that I thought about people living in Germany in the 1930s and what their lines must have been; they weren't that dissimilar to mine. But when they finally came about, nobody sprang into action; they just moved the line back just like I did. By the time the lines of subjugation and cruelty towards them came, it was already to late. So here I ask, what should the real line be?
Trump was categorically worse than any president in recent history. Saying that he was an "average president," "par for the course," etc, is rehabilitating him. Just an unambiguous L for Shaun here
Just like Fascist use conservatives until they are no longer useful, Socialist should use Liberals to reach our goals until it's viable to drop them from the conversation. Walnuts from Plants vs Zombies was a great analogy.
I think when lefties like Shaun say Trump was average - they're criticising the average, not saying Trump wasn't that bad.
Exactly, but some people still have raging TDS so any mention of Trump that isn't 100% unambiguously negative gets you thrown in front of the Twitter firing squad
@@marciamakesmusic
I think you misunderstand. I'm accusing Shaun of having APDS - 'all president derangement syndrome'. He's saying all presidents have been bad. Trump is unequivocally bad - saying so isn't 'TDS'. That term was invented to pretend that criticism of Trump wasn't rational. Don't stoop to the level of Tucker Carlson and don't pretend that Vaush is here demanding that Trump be unfairly condemned no matter what.
It's like walking into a room full of obese people and saying someone is average of people in that room and idiots thinking that they just said that person isn't overweight lol.
I also remember my republican family before and after trump. Trump literally brainwashed them and it's fucking heartbreaking. Like they aren't even functional people anymore and now they run an extreme risk to dying from covid.
How do you make Republicans irrelevant?
Address Gerrymandering by passing independent redistricting laws through referendum. That's how. And big streamers could incentivize their audience to do so.
his lighting was so bad back then omg
i mean i can see his point looking from the outside, trump's foreign affair policies were sort of the same as before. he's no reagan, clinton or bush (absolutely awful), but he's still pretty average (very bad) for an american president. what really does scare me about trump is the movement he inspired, specially here in latam since we got a couple of pretty bad imitators lol. see bolsonaro or añez, ultra christian conservative leaders. but then again, trump himself isn't really the problem there, he literally came out of nowhere in 2016, i'm more scared of the steve bannon types that are behind of these pseudo fascistic leaders.
Trump has managed to latch on to the anti-government feeling (anger, fear) that's always been there but was exacerbated by Ruby Ridge and Waco (and the world becoming increasingly complex, interconnected, and non local).
YES trump is really that bad. Shaun makes decent videos but has godawful takes
@Shinshocks Don't tell him about what the Obama administration tried to pull in relation to surveillance
Liberals hated Bush too. And no leftists didn't try to rehabilitate Trump.
I think it's time for the left to make proper distinctions between leftists, and *anti-liberals.* We can't afford to have the latter group hold us back from pushing progress in this country.
I had no idea this is how Shaun is on twitter
skull moment
The "alex jones rhetoric is pretty much mainstream" thing is still weird to me. I remember when i was down that rabbit hole and right wingers i talked to thought I was nutty for talking about conspiracy theories that are pretty mainstream now.
Now I'm "pro government" because I'm a little too skeptical of the flat earth adrenachrome conspiracy theories.
I hate Trump more than Bush because even though Bush killed more people, Trump’s failures got more of his citizens killed and negatively impacted me and my family. I know that what Bush did to Iraq was far worse, I’m not going to act like I suffered more than the Iraqis, but I almost died from Covid and I almost lost my grandfather to Covid as well. So I have a personal attachment to Trump’s failures that I don’t have to Bush’s failures. Trump’s actions lead to me, and people I personally know getting hurt. Both deserve to to be prosecuted for what they did, it’s just that try as I might, I cannot remove my personal bias due to my own personal experiences. If that makes me a right-wing nationalist who isn’t socialisty enough because I can’t be a leftist Vulcan, then maybe we need to brush up on our understanding of human psychology.
^ this is important
And that's exactly why Americans think Trump was worse, he directly affected them in a tangible way, whereas most previous administration were too busy wreaking havoc on foreign soils. Not to say Bush's policies didn't fuck the American people by causing the recession but most people don't really acknowledge that.
What they really mean to say is that the system is still the same. But no one will pay attention unless they keep escalating JRB shit talk.
I’m starting to doubt Shaun ever wrote any videos maybe he is just a voiceover artist?
So, I live in Italy and I have watched January 6 happen live through the CNN coverage. I gotta say that many Americans don't realise how fucked the whole thing is and how fragile American democracy has shown to be in respect to European ones. Don't get me wrong, the Italian conservative parties are pretty extreme already, but the magnitude of what's happening in the USA is unheard of. A couple of weeks ago, a no mask protest which was planned by Forza Nuova, an explicitly fascist party, attacked a building which was owned by a very important workers' union. Right now, the Parlament has voted in unison (so, even the right wing parties agreed to this) in order to dismantle Forza Nuova and seize everything they own. It's a stark contrast to what has been happening in the USA, which has suffered a far worse attack and still has one half of the Parliament supporting the people in it.
Shaun isn't /that/ wrong about Trump when it comes to policy, he ended up being a pretty standard neocon. However, the effect Trump had on the political culture is super profound. Was his rhetoric and behavior new for the Republican party? Not really, it was something that had been brewing for a while especially during the Obama years. But he latched onto it and brought it to the mainstream. Trump ripped the mask off and people *loved* him for that. Conspiracy theories became much more mainstream; Qanon went from some dumb meme on 4chan to being a cult talked about on cable news, people like MTG and Madison Cawthron are being elected into our government, Alex Jones was friends with Trump ffs.
These things would not have had happened with Jeb Bush or Mitt Romney, even to policy wise they would've been about the same.
The easiest way to answer that question would be to ask yourself if 600,000+ people would be dead and would there be a coup attempt if Hilary had lost.
I mean, Biden is treating the pandemic like it's over even though people are still getting sick and dying and the eviction moratorium is ending, but...sure.
@@PhoenixRising87 .....Where did I mention Biden? Is Biden saying not to wear a mask? Is Biden pretending the virus isn't a thing?
Let's switch them: Would Bide have acted like Trump did?
I'll answer that question: yes trump was that bad
I too remember the pre-teaparty republicans... They are now called the Democrats.
Man Shaun makes decent videos but has godawful takes and opinions bless the poor thing
lmao this sounds like it was written by a sweet old lady
Great videos imo, but yeah kick him out of Twitter for the left's good
@@antonioreis8394 F A C T S
@@antonioreis8394 true.Shaun is one of the channels I'd recommend to reactionaries & right wingers cause his videos are really good.
But if they see him in twitter man it would be real bad for left as a whole.
I deleted the bird app cause I was sick of 14 year olds telling me to turn and face the wall
Who cares if he’s “worse than other presidents”? What’s this ‘great man’ theory bs?
I think you have all just like, completely not realized the context that Shaun isnt American, he is British, and frankly, he wasnt that bad for us in a lot of ways? Like he didnt drag us into another war, so objectively for us he wasnt as bad for us as the last republican president...
This thread from Shaun just makes me think that commentary/analysis of American politics is *really* not in his lane/wheelhouse and maybe he should either stay clear of it or maybe chat with a friend who is more knowledgeable on the subject before putting his food in his mouth like this.
Vaush is right on these points imo, but it is very difficult to keep settling for less.
Yes I want the Mecha, but the problem is that the Mecha is feeding and sheltering the homeless and the Wall is just a rainbow doritos bag for one month out of the year.
The main reason The Wall(tm) is better for me is because I live a privileged enough life not to suffer the consequences of prolonged inaction.
It feels like I'm going to be dead by the time we elect a president who isn't either a Nazi or a Corporate Sock Puppet.
He's not saying Trump wasn't bad. He's saying every President in recent memory was just as bad. Reagan, Clinton, Bush, and Obama have all done things as bad or worse, they just weren't as outwardly rude
god vaush your takes are always so amazing like idk they’re always the best possible takes on the topics you talk about
Jesus Christ someone please take away Shaun's twitter. It makes my respect for him crater. Especially after Lindsay Ellis.
I feel like the initial take if you mean average for a republican president isn't that wrong. Like you can be average and still be the worst.
TH-cam Shaun & Twitter Shaun are two completely different creatures.
Still respect him for his videos but the tweets,big man come on
I wonder how many times Vaush had to say that Twitter Shaun and TH-cam Shaun were different people until you guys literally internalized it.
@@OsefKincaid this is an opinion I've held for a while now. If vaush thinks so too then brilliant. Surely many people can have a common belief.
@@lalitthapa101 Yes but when that belief is expressed using the same words by a plethora of people that just happen to follow the same dude who said it using those words, it starts to look less like a common belief and more like community building.
@@OsefKincaid that's your view. I don't know what to say to that other than good. If you think that,that's fine.
@@lalitthapa101 I agree. Have a nice day.
You're totally forgot the one more representative not just Liz Cheney it's Anthony Gonzalez in Akron he voted 99% on Trump stuff but he voted to teach the president impeach
Wait does Vaush knows that the two Shaun tweets clarifying his point he purposefully didnt read were shown on screen?
Really weird how someone who constantly complains about being taken out of context would engage in the same type of technic
I don't agree with his clarification either. He is still maintaining Trump is an average president.
@@Kelsper why didnt vaush read it?
@@Kosiduss because it wouldn't have changed what he was going to say about it being a bad take
@@Kelsper why would that prevent him for reading the nuance he added to his original purposefully provocative take?
@@Kosiduss if he read those two tweets and then went on to say the exact same thing how would it be much different?
Maybe he should've, but it is definitely not 'out of context' like you said when Shaun still settles on the same conclusion.
That was actually my sense as I'm seeing policy discussions... This at least isn't the classical republican Biden we've known from his Senate position. I'm holding out for this to be better than Obama, and if it is too bad Biden will be a shell of a man in 3 years
He's not wrong though.
Chapo just does like movie reviews now. They were breaking down shooter last week as the last movie ever made that could show you shooting Dick Cheney or some shit like that
I actually agree with Shaun here. Trump was a pretty average president as an over whelming majority of presidents were pretty garbage. Bush is in the running of top 5 worst presidents ever and Obama may be considered an above average president all things considered. I think Vaush’s description of Republicans in the Bush years were not that different from Republicans today. If trump had 8 years and continued his same actions then yeah he would be worst than average even in US president terms
NGL I'd like to see Vaush talk more about growing unions as well.
Shaun's a good boi
I think Trump was the worst president we've had domestically, since he brought American Fascism to the forefront, but Bush, for example, was worse abroad
I agree with Shaun here. He's not saying Trump wasn't a bad president, he's saying that recent American presidents have been bad, and thus if you only only at them Trump is average. You guys just see someone say Trump isn't the worst thing to have ever happened to the world and you instantly shut off your brains and froth at the mouth.
even more so, ALL of america is bad, all of americas presidents are bad, thats his point and its a fair one
I got a ton of heat once for simply using the word "deplorable" in a leftist Facebook group. Apparently Hillary owns the right to that word or something and I'm a liberal for merely using it--no matter the context. The lengths some "leftists" go to try to distinguish themselves from liberals would be hilarious if it ultimately weren't so detrimental to any semblance of cohesion and solidarity within.
Full disclosure, I didn't watch the full clip. But it seems very obvious to me that Shaun and Vaush are both right. Seriously if they had a two minute conversation they'd realise they're completely on the same page.
I feel like at this point Vaush is so alienated by Shaun's (understandable) disapproval of debatebros that he's just going out of his way to be contentious with anything he says lmao. I like them both, and I know Shaun is "edgy" on Twitter but he's often right beneath that layer of callousness. Sheesh why is the left so eager to eat itself
@@h.s6352 just Vaush
Love your politics Vaush. Thank you for keeping a level head even during chaotic times. I really respect your work, and feel more engaged as a citizen after watching this
Now we know why his avatar is a skull. Because his head is completly empty.
The hill rising almost convinced me that Trump was just another bad republican, but then I saw his interview with that Australian dude and that brought me back to reality
Shaun is right tho
He's not saying Trump was ok. He clearly meant that the "average" president is a total disaster, in one way or another.
Exactly
To be fair i think he means as a totality, and as an average by american standards. Thats more of a slam on the quality of the federal government as a whole than a rehabilitation of Trump. Also the spartacist thing is not that simple. Ever since lenins loyalists backstabbed Kerensky Socdems have treated tankies the way AFA wants to treat nazis, and with good reason. If you are at all serious about interacting within a democratic framework, tankies need to be dealt with.
Ehh considering what the socdems did to Rosa Luxembourg and then to Germany when they helped the nazis purge the rest of the left, that's a pretty one sided and disingenuous take you have there.
Tbh, those Trump supporters just didn't come out of nowhere, Trump just made them louder. They were there before Trump and they will exist after Trump. They are an american issue, I think, not a Trump issue. Shaun was right
so shaun has a ghost writer for his youtube videos huh?
I think he may have a reasonable person trapped in his basement.
I think Shaun is a two person team.
I think the other guy researches stuff meanwhile Shaun narrates & produces the videos mostly.
There was a bill the Conservatives pushed through earlier this year under the guise that it was a bill to “protect women” & make “prosecution easier” but the bill did none of this. All it did was… wait for it… protect statues.
Everyone: "Trump is the worst president of our life"
Shaun: "He is the best president of the rest of your life"
Why the cringe pfp dude
i'm convinced the guy who makes the videos and the guy who makes the tweets are two different people.
I used to defend Shaun when people shittalked him.
I Will no longer do that from now on.
Oh no how will he ever recover!
@@derpeth2101 I see this is your alt account, Shaun
@@nessie7306 Oi, bloody hell, ya caught me!
This is true. Leftists were downplaying trump from the beginning which is so frustrating
Mainly just some terminally online leftists, not a representative sampling, but it’s still super frustrating
“Look at me! I’m so far to the left I equivocate for fascists! Sure, Hitler was bad, but did you hear what OBAMA DID?!”
WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
Because everyone knows that Hitler (and Trump 🙄) are bad, no one needs to hear it again. What they do need to hear is how awful people that they hold up as saints, like Obama, are. Obama was a warcriminal many times over and pretty fucking awful domestically as well.
It’s not trying to rehabilitate trump at least to me I read that tweet as trying to point out how a lot of policies people got upset about during the trump White House are systemic and that people shouldn’t just check out because Biden is in the office now because a lot of these policies didn’t start with trump and don’t end with him being gone.
Shaun is 100% right, he's not minimizing or rehabilitating anyone
@@marciamakesmusic He is 100% wrong, Trump did some of the most horrible sht in 1 term, and people are trying to equate him with the most horrible dictators that have been leading for 40 years. It is sad how pathetically easy it is to brainwash the left wing. He got impeached twice, and that is far from the most horrible thing he did in only 4 years. Every week some massive thing was going on.
Ah, the Kyle Kulinski take from Shaun. I hate the left
Based and omnipilled
Even Kyle doesn’t say that trump was an “average bad” president. But then there’s nuances to even Shaun’s argument because like most of the first 15 presidents had slaves. So it depends on what metrics he’s using
Calling Trump average is an insult to all who are average or below average...