@@BugattiONE666the SU-27SM is NOT the best plane in the game in almost any way except number of missiles, R77 are cheeks, you get mid flight performance and you are a fat brick
Pretty sure early rafale has 6 missile pylons but the later ones get 8 missile pylons. Rafale in dev server is also 900kg heavier than the real one and the gun fire rate is much slower than irl
the gun fire rate of the rafale can be changed mid air by pressing a single button it allow the pilot to economize some bullets but Gaijin has juste taken the lowest rate by default (they have changed it since)
nope, the first rafale could take up to 10 mica's but it was downed to 8 only for the naval variant, meaning the rafale C should get 10 mica and the rafale M will only get 8 (maybe 9 I might be wrong on that)
hey ! the Rafale is hugely WIP and a lot of things will change i think, 1. He can carry 8 missiles, in theory even 10 but only the demonstrator flew with center pylon MICA's 2. he should have 64 counter mesures instead of 32 3. atm he also lacks of 500KGF in the engines and 700 in afterburner 4. AESA will be a crazy upgrade if well implemented, instant detection and lock and more reliable than a standard mecanical radar 5. i think the flight models of both the typhoon and Rafale is pretty good an accurate as of now
dont get me started on the MICA BS, they still ahvent unnerfed either the Magic 2 or MICA, (magic 2 is well known by now. but the MICA should have 10km extra range at least, and ideally match the AIM120 in range.) Also they seriously need to look at missle thrust vectoring since its buggy as fuck, can be as simply as: if (target is distance > 10km ) { disable thrust vectoring } else if (flight correction < 5 deg/s) { disable thrust vectoring } else activate thrust vectoring; yes I study mechanical engineering, no idk what that so called "grass" is. edit: yes its a massive oversimplefercation of coding but it fits the general rules, also there are problems with thrust vectoring that wont be fixed by this direction of coding.
An MSA or Mechanically Scanned Array is a conventional dish or slotted plate antenna which scans by tilting the antenna, physically. A single TWT or Travelling Wave Tube, similar to what is in your microwave oven, passes radio frequency radiation down a series of waveguides (square tubes) where it is split via mechanical flex-couplers to 2-4-6 X 2-4 emission points on the back of the planar array to widen/narrow the beam as a broad area fan for volume search or a narrow pencil beam, for target tracking. A PESA (which is what the RBE-2 on the early Rafales is) replaces the mechanical scanner with a series of phase shifters that control azimuth and elevation by essentially adjusting polarization of the radar beam so that the electron's magnetic fields repel/nudge each other in a given direction. It is actually very fast, only slightly less so than an AESA. It still uses a TWT for primary radar wave generation. An AESA, is 'better' than the other two radars in that, it uses a whole bunch of miniature radar arrays in which the TWT and beam steering are all part of the same element, called a TRM or DTRM as Transmit:Receive Module or Digital Transmit:Receive Module. Like the PESA, we are talking microsecond shifting of the beam pointing direction. But unlike the PESA, the radar can rapidly change pulse repetition frequencies and intervals along with modulation coding, allows the overall array to perform as multiple, miniature, radars, rather than just one beam. Rapid PRF/PRI changes, pulse-train encoding, and of course raw power inherent to the number of arrays being combined is key to avoiding being jammer by threat ECM systems as the beam point/dwell sequence is combined with shifting spectrum use on a scan to scan basis. Conversely, it is also what allows the radar to be used as an active jammer because the 'duty cycle', being the broadcast:listen ratio is very high and thus the cooling capacity of the array is quite large, able to support nearly constant jamming, similar to a dedicated pod or internal EW system. There are some things which define how well the AESA works. The first is power generated Gallium Arsenide, aka GaAs is available in two generations of HEMP/HPA while Gallium Nitride or GaN, is about twice as powerful as GaAs. Again, heat is a major driver here, a small APG-83 replacement for the POBIT F-16 is only going to generate a couple 3-4kw of power because it is a tiny volume/weight capacity of 200lbs in the Viper's nose. While a giant No-35 on the Su-35 is going to generate 20kw worth of power is going to weight about 1,000lbs. Simply because the liquid cooling loop is ENORMOUS. At a simpler level the Rafale, which also has a smallish nose volume, only has 838 TRMs. Whereas the ECRS2 on the Eurofighter has a 'more than 1,100' count and will be more powerful because it's under a wider radome. Kilowatts/Antenna Area = Power Product and this is the fundamental determinator of how far away a radar will detect a threat aircraft. Of note: a Radar can track a target much further than it can detect it, simply by tailoring it radar lobe performance to look along a given bearing, closure rate, time interval rather than blue-sky scanning for anything, everywhere. ECRS-2 on the Typhoon has another advantage in that AESA radars lose coherency (signal phase precision of waveform) at the edges of their scan and thus really only look well across a total FOV of 60-70`. This is why passive radar scanning via systems like the DAS on the Eurofighter and Spectra on the Rafale is an essential _offensive_ tool in that it allows the pilot to prepoint the nose of his jet and thus center up the target in his radar's sweet spot f or easy acquisition and tracking. He will also fire his missile and let it get about halfway out before illuminating the threat. ECRS-2, in addition to being a bigger radar, has it's AESA antenna attached to a mechanical Repositioner (only the JAS-39E also has this) which spins the nodded antenna towards the direction of the target. The array is tilted down so that it doesn't 'hog nose' add to the RCS of the jet when struck by threat radars through the dielectric radome material. The combination of the mechanical pointing and the E-Scan of the radar beam means that the Eurofighter can fire it's missiles, crank into the notch and still maintain target track, updating the missiles as to target position, until they can go Husky (Hi PRF search) or Pitbull (M-PRF tracking), on their own. This increases the effectiveness of BVR shots, quite a bit, as well as making the Typhoon pilot's midcourse phase less sphincter clenching in terms of his own 'break now or later?' decisions on survivability. When missiles like Meteor, which have VERY long range and a 2-way datalink as the ability to look at jammers and enemy radars on their own and tell the parent radar what they see, the TRM count (size) of the AESA and it's ability to not have to commit, nose-on, to tracking will have a huge importance to fighting systems like the Supercruise capable Su-57 and the R-37M carrying Su-30/35 and MiG-31BM. The Russian Mach 6.7 Axehead missile, with a 400km range, coupled to the 800kw Zaslon radar of the Foxhound outranges anything we now have, both in terms of First Arrival to A-Pole, as seeker activation missile autonomy point. And absolute firing distances. It has a dual spectrum, dual mode, seeker and is designed to kill B-2 and AGM-129 type targets (i.e. 'Stealth') in the strategic air defense role. The Meteor is a cool missile which is roughly AMRAAM class in size weight (12ft X 7in and 350 vs. 420lbs) but it is designed to use a slow-burn to achieve max range and thus is only doing about Mach 2.5-3 for midcourse before accelerating to Mach 3.5 for wicking up it's gas generator (like a spark plug to increase thermal values in the motor plenum) for terminals, dependent on how far it has to go. It will do Mach 4.5 but only to 20-25nm. To go 120 miles, it has to go perhaps as little as Mach 2.5 all the way. This means a monster, fast, missile (13ft X 15in and 1,150lbs), like the AA-13 Axehead, is going to beat the smaller, slower, missile in terms of time to distance. At War Thunder distances of say 60nm, with an average of Mach 3 vs. Mach 3.8, across the time of flight, this equates to 87 seconds vs. 109 seconds, favoring the Russian weapon. In theory, there are things ('Shooter/Illuminator') you can do to guide a leader launched missile via a friendly wingman, 30-50 miles in-trail while running away early, rather than maintaining nose-on guidance. But this begins to challenge the absolute detection range of the fighter radar. And thus is where capabilities like stealth and supercruise really begin to matter. If Gaijin is going to be HONEST in balancing out the performance differentials of the Soviet/Russian platforms with the various Canard Fighters of the NATO partners, it will be necessary to both expand the map sizes and to add a significantly more sophisticate sensor model to the game. Along with long range SAMs.
For the Mica's load-out it's simple in real life the Rafale f3-R can carry 8 missiles: 6 Mica EM and 2 Mica IR, However in French service they did not communicate on it, so people are arguing that it was only for Qataris, Egyptian and Indian Rafale f3-R, and that for the french the missile load out goes from 6 to 8 only with the f4 variant. honestly it doesn't cost anything to gaijin to add 2 missile bc anyway the aircraft was thought to carry missile on 10 to 12 of his 14 pylons in case of an high intensity conflict, and that will surely come with the advanced f4+ and f5 variants in the upcoming years.
False, the Standard F4 unlock two more pylon for air to air, making it able to carry 8 missiles, any standard before F4 can't carry 8 missiles, yes you could put the missiles on the pylons theorically, but it won't be optimised for firing them... I mean technically it would be able to fire them, because by "unlocking two more pylon" it basically mean that those pylons were tested for firing air to air missiles and were proven to be compatible with air to air... So yeah, technically you're right, but it wouldn't be historical accurate having 8 missiles on the F3
Also, Rafale C F3 should have SPECTRA system, which carries much better RWR and some sort of ECM, I know this isn't balanced, so they won't add it. But still, it's quite an interesting point.
It has SPECTRA but only in part, SPECTRA refers to the whole suit, including RWR, MAW, countermeasures and the electronic warfare part. The only part that can't be modelled is the EW part
@@함께지내던나날들 Doesn't the Su-25tm have an IR-Jammer? By definition whatever disturbs or disrupts this stuff is considered ECM. And it is already in the game iirc. Not too deep into russian Tech tree but locking them on makes IR Rockets get the zoomies xD
Basically the rafale f3 can carry at least 8 mica's (em or ir)/magics + the center wing pylons used for fuel tank are supposedly able to carry mica as well but I don't think we have evidence of that. Also the jet is able to supercruise which is not the case yet on the dev server
Rafale is the one ill go for, especially as i worked myself on that Aircraft (i mean, the model here in game, the 30- Golf Hotel) Such a beauty ! I hope they will fix MICA flight model to be able to hit at longer ranges
Absolutely despise how they changed tm8's radar locks and even their fox3 missiles which are locked onto you from appearing on your rwr - makes it so that you literally cannot defend yourself against the blue enemy neanderthal. On another note - french W, love the rafale =)
@@nikolaisuterovich you have no idea how op the meteor is, probably not before the f22, just to give an idea, if it loses lock it goes up and turns off engine, when it reacquires it goes back to hypersonic, can litteraly kill targets 200km away and fly for over 10 minutes
@ You assume I know nothing but you are in fact EXTREMELY wrong. I know all about the meteor and how much better it is than even the newest AIM-120D. They are insane yes but the F-22 in game would be so much harder to model properly that you will definitely see the meteor before the F-22. Also the 200km range is at max and peak performance metrics meaning you are about 15-20km up in the air and traveling at mach 1.5-2. That is impossible in game. The only problem facing the implementation of the Meteor is the fact that it can launched at near max in game ranges and will seek its own target out if it loses lock. On top of that, the Meteor is not hypersonic… not sure where you got that information from but it has a max speed of Mach 4 which by definition is not hypersonic
@@nikolaisuterovich yes i was wrong about hypersonic, i thought it was mach 3 and above, and also in game it is possible to be mach 2 at somewhere between 13 and 16km i dont really remember, but still, stealth is already moddeled ingame with the f117 nighthawk and changing it to work with the f22 and how the modern radars detect it would be much easier, with a lot of guesswork but they could nerf stealth for balance, with the meteor though, i dont see whats ur argument for me being wrong about the meteor except from speed, but if they do put the real procedures from the meteor it will definetly be super broken ingame if they dont nerf it a lot. so i dont think it will be added before the f22.
Rafale C should be able to carry 10 MICAs as it has two inline fuselage MICA pylons, two offset fuselage pylons plus two under wing and one wingtip pylon on either side.
The Mirage 4000 was a prototype, very performant but way too expensive to build, and it culminated in the Rafale. The Mirage 2000 was replaced by the Rafale as an upgraded platform with canards - enabling shorter take off / landing run, and improving the instantaneous turn rate. Twin engine brings more survivability in combat, especially in Close Air Support.
Hey Seek, as a fellow creator I am also hyped thing up coming up soon and as a French player I am ecstatic that the Rafael is coming to war thunder I can only hope that in the future or thunder may possibly add the meteor missile which both the year fighter and the Rafael can carry. Great video thanks
Im mostly looking foward to IRST. Sneaky MICA's is gonna be so much fun. That is, if they model it correctly. Which if we look at Flankers, i dont have my hopes high.
I hardly play air in warthunder, Really all I play is the Do335 premium because my buddy convinced me to buy it. I bet If I played more air I would like it more but I'm so buns at it that id rather just sick to ground but for some reason I find myself really enjoying your videos.
As far as I know only Rafale's from M family can use Magic 2's but still, this one lacks at least 2 additional pylons for mica's, up to 4 additional possible missile pylons for mica em, mica VA, mica IR and meteor missiles in the inner and outer wings **EDIT** Of course it lacks countermeasures also..
I got a good laugh from the dev blog with them calling the MICA one of the best long range missiles in the game. long range lol. They did confirm Magic 2's in it though.
the late joining is quite annoying lol, I killed 4, see one last guy, kill him, thought game is gonna end with 1 mins fuel and no missile left, and two more spwaned in😃
@@nicolaspeigne1429 from multiple sources and from mbda themselves and 130km is the max range of missile in high alt it can't be achieve in normal battle, but what we know 100% that the MICA NG has double the mica NTZ "No-Transgression Zone" mica EM 10km mica NG of impressive 21km so from that information we know it at least going to be hitting 50km shot bvr with ez
I like how the US has to have 1980s airframes going against 2004 and on. The F-15C MSIP went into service in 1985, and the F-15E in 1989. Meanwhile the Typhoon went into service in 2002, the Su-27SM in 2004, the J-10A in 2005, and the Rafale in 2004 (Navy) and 2006 (Air Force). So if these do dominate the META, "Congrats Jake Paul, you just beat up a 59 year old man". At this point, the US should have the F-22A, which entered into operation service in 2005. Why we couldn't get a 1970s F-18 Legacy Hornet or 1999 F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet is just blatant incompetency on Gaijin's end I guess.
Americas primary Fighter IRL still is the F-15 slowly being replaced by the F-35…are you suggesting they add the F-35? I’m not opposed to the f/a-18 being added and I want it in the game but America doesn’t really have newer airframes besides the f-22&f-35
As a sidenote on the dev server I fought my friend in both the ref fell and the Mira 2000 in a dogfight whilst the Euro fighter does win in the won turn both the mirage - 5C and the ref fell beat the Euro fighter after the first turn I have tested this in 25 matches and won all of them so as of now from my experience both the mirage 2000-5 C and the Raphael can beat the year fighter in a dog fight. Bracket guns and missile bracket.
The current implementation of the Rafale is absolute bullshit, it’s supposed to get : - MICA-EM-NG (With AESA in each missile) - MICA-IR-NG (With multi frequency heat-seeker) - SPECTRA electronic jamming system with IRCM, 360 MAW and LWS along with radar jamming and spoofing - DIRCM so no need for classic « flares » - Reduced RCS of about 1-0,5 m2 - Scalp, ASMPA, Exocet etc. What is the worst to me is that they choosed to implement the F3R standard when they just could’ve gone for the rafale A which was the demonstrator, or even for the F1 standard that historically had Magics 2 (because MICA weren’t out yet). And it’s only for the rafale, EF2000 has the very same lackluster implementation.
How in dev server the rafale have more trust vs eurofighter with weaker engine? eu2000 Maximum thrust: 60 kN (13,500 lbf) and 90 kN (20,200 lbf) (with reheat) Overall pressure ratio: 26:1 Bypass ratio: 0.4:1 Air mass flow: 75-77 kg/s (9,900-10,200 lb/min) rafale Maximum thrust: 50 kN (11,200 lbf) and 75 kN (16,900 lbf) (with afterburner) Overall pressure ratio: 24.5:1 Bypass ratio: 0.3:1 Air mass flow: 65 kg/s (143 lb/s) so what is this? really interesting…
I need the mirage on sale gaijin trolled me with the November sale wanted to grind France back then so hopefully they don’t fuck over France for Christmas sale
i grinded france without premium and it was quite enjoyable.. but mirage is worth if it is on sale because the magics 2 slap.. 530f sucks tbh but sometimes they surprise you
You guys know that you( GER/UK/FR/ITA) can literally just enoy being on the top for 1 update as China and Russia will hit the first 2025 update with some Paper Tiger and Bears which will outperforme everything
Depends. Leopard 2A7V is together with the 122+ best of the best tank wise, and Germany has some more top notch versions Gaijin can add. The rest of the German lineup is also very nice. And EF is and will be also one of the best jets for a long time. French ground is worse imo and jets are on par I would say.
in reality the French vehicles are good if you play well, from AMX it's enjoyable, and Aerien frankly extremely good and better if you are towards mirages
@@spooney6451 in any case if he adds other countries which have the Rafale, there will be Great Britain too, because the countries which currently have the Rafale, Egypt, Greece, Croatia, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Serbia (it is on order ) there is India, soon Peru and Brazil and Spain (all 3 can be on order)
@@jinx_rogue It’s very complex and I’d advise looking it up for yourself, but extremely dumbed down: a PESA radar uses antennas in a fixed position, but uses electricity to steer the “radar beam” that comes from those antennas without actually moving the antennas themselves, and since it moves the “radar beam”“digitally” instead of physically, it can scan much much faster. This is way more efficient than moving a big radar dish inside of an aircraft that’s limited to a lower scan speed.
With current changes, for WT, its FM is significantly worse, at alt, it sheds all its speed, its slower down low, it carries 2 less missiles and unless they make its radar ultimate TWS weapon and HMD to be actually able to lock. It will be straight up downgrade. 2000-5F even get more CMS, even if 72 normal slots gets throug. It will have less CMs. They either unfuck mica range and drag or this thing is worse than plane its supposed to replace.
@@SeekerHead I mean, does it? If iam not mistaken, it still sheds speed like crazy at altitude and its max speed just got nerfed based on number without any specification if its high alt limit, low alt limit, engine limit, airframe limit, cockpit limit or ordnance loadout. It cant pass 1500 ias. If they properly implement the aesa with TWS, it might be good as my main issue with 2000-5F is TWS and how poorly its implemented with one bar only. This significantly kills my SA in clouds across whole map, both down low and up high (90% maps these days). Usually i die on someone just appearing 5-7 km away where i could have seen him approaching with proper scan patterns. I dunno if even aesa can save it though. I want to mainly play sim and there is a lot of BVR there on large maps and we all know how gimped mica is in this regard. From supposed range level of amraam B irl to glorified BFM missile.
@@SeekerHead what nahhh, The rafale turns better at some speeds but the eurofighter has higer thrust to weight, better acceleration, better high speed turn rate and the EF does not shed speed as much
the issue is that it was always going to be like this but it wouldn't have felt so much like a downgrade if gaijin hadn't (wrongly) added the mirage 2000-5f with 8 air to air missiles. They really shot themselves in the foot with that decision (once again)
F18 the most hyped jet from the update. But its yet again not coming. This is legit the perfect time to introduce 4.5 gen across the board. Watch they will put the f18 out next year with aim7s and aim9l instead of with 9m and 120s when they are already at stealth. And give us the shittiest version for the most anticipated plane in war thunder history. F18 more iconic then the f16
@@SeekerHead idk what your smoking. The early f18 is 4th gen. But the everything after E is 4.5 gen. And your also proving my point of why it is needed to be released with this update. The f18a is exactly like the baby between the f15a and the f16a. It 10 missiles. F16 manueverability with f15 weapons load. Between aim9 and 120s good cm crazy ground strike capability too. Developed same time as eurofighter and is thought to be the better dogfighter although all thats purely speculative till an actual engagement occurs. They will put the eurofighter out. Let it be good for a little to appease the german mains that arnt content having the best ground tree. Please the f18 people but give us the shittiest version. Then they will either release the f18 right before going full into stealth so it can dominate the 4.5 gens for a little. I really hope once they get the rafale. Eurofighter and f18 out they flesh out more before going to next gen. Feels like we just got the f16/su27 and aim120s thought stealth was another few years out.
after you had the F15 and the F114 so the next one is there's an American plane, well put it in some update to let the other nation have their plane so don't worry about it next time it's on the F18 is the
As far as I know, the eurocanards (Gripen included) should all have *VERY* close flight performance. So much so that it genuinely comes down to the pilot. The biggest differences between them are concerning radar, top end engine performance, and missiles.
Good to mention, on dev server today: F-15E, F-15I, Eurofighter and Rafale went to BR 14.0
AFTER being nerfed, weird how Su27 didnt move anywhere....
@@BugattiONE666 Yeah it sucks LMAO
@@BugattiONE666the SU-27SM is NOT the best plane in the game in almost any way except number of missiles, R77 are cheeks, you get mid flight performance and you are a fat brick
@@BugattiONE666too op for 13.3 too shit for 14.0 the only way is br decompression
I'm doing my best 😅 Rafale What to Expect is SoonTM...
Thanks so much for the shoutout bro 💪💪💪
As a german main, you don't understand how much joy this update is gonna give me 😅
Ye you guys can stop crying on every comment section now
@zenitu6914 Germany mains cried for a reason, other then US mains lol.
Fr lol, they cry because other nations have something good@@theDarkside798
Don't worry, they already nerfed the ef2k to shit in the dev, now loses to almost everything
Because germany cannot have anything nice, russki devs do russki thing
Pretty sure early rafale has 6 missile pylons but the later ones get 8 missile pylons. Rafale in dev server is also 900kg heavier than the real one and the gun fire rate is much slower than irl
The canon has been corrected
the gun fire rate of the rafale can be changed mid air by pressing a single button it allow the pilot to economize some bullets but Gaijin has juste taken the lowest rate by default (they have changed it since)
@@luckyFrenchy it's only they took the stats of the DEFA 781 (on the tiger HAD) as a place holder
ooooh that's why i've seen pictures of him with 9 missiles , I thought it was a mistake from gaijin but it seems i was wrong
nope, the first rafale could take up to 10 mica's but it was downed to 8 only for the naval variant, meaning the rafale C should get 10 mica and the rafale M will only get 8 (maybe 9 I might be wrong on that)
hey ! the Rafale is hugely WIP and a lot of things will change i think,
1. He can carry 8 missiles, in theory even 10 but only the demonstrator flew with center pylon MICA's
2. he should have 64 counter mesures instead of 32
3. atm he also lacks of 500KGF in the engines and 700 in afterburner
4. AESA will be a crazy upgrade if well implemented, instant detection and lock and more reliable than a standard mecanical radar
5. i think the flight models of both the typhoon and Rafale is pretty good an accurate as of now
neither of the flight models is even close to accurate lmao
Guess we have a frenchman right here
@@pomelo9840 I'm sure you know everything, Mr. Pomelo9840
Count another one 🇨🇵@loadout3727
dont get me started on the MICA BS, they still ahvent unnerfed either the Magic 2 or MICA, (magic 2 is well known by now. but the MICA should have 10km extra range at least, and ideally match the AIM120 in range.) Also they seriously need to look at missle thrust vectoring since its buggy as fuck, can be as simply as:
if (target is distance > 10km )
{
disable thrust vectoring
}
else if (flight correction < 5 deg/s)
{
disable thrust vectoring
}
else activate thrust vectoring;
yes I study mechanical engineering, no idk what that so called "grass" is.
edit: yes its a massive oversimplefercation of coding but it fits the general rules, also there are problems with thrust vectoring that wont be fixed by this direction of coding.
An MSA or Mechanically Scanned Array is a conventional dish or slotted plate antenna which scans by tilting the antenna, physically. A single TWT or Travelling Wave Tube, similar to what is in your microwave oven, passes radio frequency radiation down a series of waveguides (square tubes) where it is split via mechanical flex-couplers to 2-4-6 X 2-4 emission points on the back of the planar array to widen/narrow the beam as a broad area fan for volume search or a narrow pencil beam, for target tracking.
A PESA (which is what the RBE-2 on the early Rafales is) replaces the mechanical scanner with a series of phase shifters that control azimuth and elevation by essentially adjusting polarization of the radar beam so that the electron's magnetic fields repel/nudge each other in a given direction. It is actually very fast, only slightly less so than an AESA. It still uses a TWT for primary radar wave generation.
An AESA, is 'better' than the other two radars in that, it uses a whole bunch of miniature radar arrays in which the TWT and beam steering are all part of the same element, called a TRM or DTRM as Transmit:Receive Module or Digital Transmit:Receive Module. Like the PESA, we are talking microsecond shifting of the beam pointing direction. But unlike the PESA, the radar can rapidly change pulse repetition frequencies and intervals along with modulation coding, allows the overall array to perform as multiple, miniature, radars, rather than just one beam. Rapid PRF/PRI changes, pulse-train encoding, and of course raw power inherent to the number of arrays being combined is key to avoiding being jammer by threat ECM systems as the beam point/dwell sequence is combined with shifting spectrum use on a scan to scan basis. Conversely, it is also what allows the radar to be used as an active jammer because the 'duty cycle', being the broadcast:listen ratio is very high and thus the cooling capacity of the array is quite large, able to support nearly constant jamming, similar to a dedicated pod or internal EW system.
There are some things which define how well the AESA works. The first is power generated Gallium Arsenide, aka GaAs is available in two generations of HEMP/HPA while Gallium Nitride or GaN, is about twice as powerful as GaAs. Again, heat is a major driver here, a small APG-83 replacement for the POBIT F-16 is only going to generate a couple 3-4kw of power because it is a tiny volume/weight capacity of 200lbs in the Viper's nose. While a giant No-35 on the Su-35 is going to generate 20kw worth of power is going to weight about 1,000lbs. Simply because the liquid cooling loop is ENORMOUS.
At a simpler level the Rafale, which also has a smallish nose volume, only has 838 TRMs. Whereas the ECRS2 on the Eurofighter has a 'more than 1,100' count and will be more powerful because it's under a wider radome. Kilowatts/Antenna Area = Power Product and this is the fundamental determinator of how far away a radar will detect a threat aircraft. Of note: a Radar can track a target much further than it can detect it, simply by tailoring it radar lobe performance to look along a given bearing, closure rate, time interval rather than blue-sky scanning for anything, everywhere.
ECRS-2 on the Typhoon has another advantage in that AESA radars lose coherency (signal phase precision of waveform) at the edges of their scan and thus really only look well across a total FOV of 60-70`. This is why passive radar scanning via systems like the DAS on the Eurofighter and Spectra on the Rafale is an essential _offensive_ tool in that it allows the pilot to prepoint the nose of his jet and thus center up the target in his radar's sweet spot f
or easy acquisition and tracking. He will also fire his missile and let it get about halfway out before illuminating the threat.
ECRS-2, in addition to being a bigger radar, has it's AESA antenna attached to a mechanical Repositioner (only the JAS-39E also has this) which spins the nodded antenna towards the direction of the target. The array is tilted down so that it doesn't 'hog nose' add to the RCS of the jet when struck by threat radars through the dielectric radome material. The combination of the mechanical pointing and the E-Scan of the radar beam means that the Eurofighter can fire it's missiles, crank into the notch and still maintain target track, updating the missiles as to target position, until they can go Husky (Hi PRF search) or Pitbull (M-PRF tracking), on their own.
This increases the effectiveness of BVR shots, quite a bit, as well as making the Typhoon pilot's midcourse phase less sphincter clenching in terms of his own 'break now or later?' decisions on survivability.
When missiles like Meteor, which have VERY long range and a 2-way datalink as the ability to look at jammers and enemy radars on their own and tell the parent radar what they see, the TRM count (size) of the AESA and it's ability to not have to commit, nose-on, to tracking will have a huge importance to fighting systems like the Supercruise capable Su-57 and the R-37M carrying Su-30/35 and MiG-31BM.
The Russian Mach 6.7 Axehead missile, with a 400km range, coupled to the 800kw Zaslon radar of the Foxhound outranges anything we now have, both in terms of First Arrival to A-Pole, as seeker activation missile autonomy point. And absolute firing distances. It has a dual spectrum, dual mode, seeker and is designed to kill B-2 and AGM-129 type targets (i.e. 'Stealth') in the strategic air defense role.
The Meteor is a cool missile which is roughly AMRAAM class in size weight (12ft X 7in and 350 vs. 420lbs) but it is designed to use a slow-burn to achieve max range and thus is only doing about Mach 2.5-3 for midcourse before accelerating to Mach 3.5 for wicking up it's gas generator (like a spark plug to increase thermal values in the motor plenum) for terminals, dependent on how far it has to go. It will do Mach 4.5 but only to 20-25nm. To go 120 miles, it has to go perhaps as little as Mach 2.5 all the way.
This means a monster, fast, missile (13ft X 15in and 1,150lbs), like the AA-13 Axehead, is going to beat the smaller, slower, missile in terms of time to distance. At War Thunder distances of say 60nm, with an average of Mach 3 vs. Mach 3.8, across the time of flight, this equates to 87 seconds vs. 109 seconds, favoring the Russian weapon.
In theory, there are things ('Shooter/Illuminator') you can do to guide a leader launched missile via a friendly wingman, 30-50 miles in-trail while running away early, rather than maintaining nose-on guidance. But this begins to challenge the absolute detection range of the fighter radar. And thus is where capabilities like stealth and supercruise really begin to matter.
If Gaijin is going to be HONEST in balancing out the performance differentials of the Soviet/Russian platforms with the various Canard Fighters of the NATO partners, it will be necessary to both expand the map sizes and to add a significantly more sophisticate sensor model to the game. Along with long range SAMs.
For the Mica's load-out it's simple in real life the Rafale f3-R can carry 8 missiles: 6 Mica EM and 2 Mica IR, However in French service they did not communicate on it, so people are arguing that it was only for Qataris, Egyptian and Indian Rafale f3-R, and that for the french the missile load out goes from 6 to 8 only with the f4 variant. honestly it doesn't cost anything to gaijin to add 2 missile bc anyway the aircraft was thought to carry missile on 10 to 12 of his 14 pylons in case of an high intensity conflict, and that will surely come with the advanced f4+ and f5 variants in the upcoming years.
not to mention the two extra mica's on the middle fuselage pylon that have been able to be mounted there since the prototype
@doi8861 Yeah I didn't mention those bc in active service they have never been used but yeah if they would they could buff it so much
Well, 6 or 8 MICA are fine, i just Hope they will rework the flight model of Mica, being able to hit at longer range (ou to 80km irl)
@opalow_ indeed, french air force (as i worked there) does not use this configuration, but it is a possible one for war times
False, the Standard F4 unlock two more pylon for air to air, making it able to carry 8 missiles, any standard before F4 can't carry 8 missiles, yes you could put the missiles on the pylons theorically, but it won't be optimised for firing them... I mean technically it would be able to fire them, because by "unlocking two more pylon" it basically mean that those pylons were tested for firing air to air missiles and were proven to be compatible with air to air... So yeah, technically you're right, but it wouldn't be historical accurate having 8 missiles on the F3
Also, Rafale C F3 should have SPECTRA system, which carries much better RWR and some sort of ECM, I know this isn't balanced, so they won't add it. But still, it's quite an interesting point.
That would require them to finally implement any form of ECM to the game, which I can guarantee they'll screw up in some way.
It has SPECTRA but only in part, SPECTRA refers to the whole suit, including RWR, MAW, countermeasures and the electronic warfare part.
The only part that can't be modelled is the EW part
@@nicolaspeigne1429 yup the "advanced" RWR and as he said in the video, better CMs
@Rayjacker as ECM isn't in any kinds of planes, I'm not looking forward for it 😕
@@함께지내던나날들 Doesn't the Su-25tm have an IR-Jammer? By definition whatever disturbs or disrupts this stuff is considered ECM. And it is already in the game iirc. Not too deep into russian Tech tree but locking them on makes IR Rockets get the zoomies xD
Basically the rafale f3 can carry at least 8 mica's (em or ir)/magics + the center wing pylons used for fuel tank are supposedly able to carry mica as well but I don't think we have evidence of that. Also the jet is able to supercruise which is not the case yet on the dev server
Rafale my beloved
Rafale is the one ill go for, especially as i worked myself on that Aircraft (i mean, the model here in game, the 30- Golf Hotel)
Such a beauty ! I hope they will fix MICA flight model to be able to hit at longer ranges
make a request on the war thunder forum and give evidence. Not that I don't believe you it's just how it works.
@ there are already plenty on the forum with declassified documents (open source)
if spectra was working u could tecnicaly just go straight to the ennemy and watch all their radar missile get crazy
The general lee slander at the start is wild
How is it slander 😭
Absolutely despise how they changed tm8's radar locks and even their fox3 missiles which are locked onto you from appearing on your rwr - makes it so that you literally cannot defend yourself against the blue enemy neanderthal. On another note - french W, love the rafale =)
Imagine once it gets the Meteor missile
probably not before the f22 comes in game
@@LuisvitorasMeteors will come in before the F-22
@@nikolaisuterovich you have no idea how op the meteor is, probably not before the f22, just to give an idea, if it loses lock it goes up and turns off engine, when it reacquires it goes back to hypersonic, can litteraly kill targets 200km away and fly for over 10 minutes
@ You assume I know nothing but you are in fact EXTREMELY wrong. I know all about the meteor and how much better it is than even the newest AIM-120D. They are insane yes but the F-22 in game would be so much harder to model properly that you will definitely see the meteor before the F-22. Also the 200km range is at max and peak performance metrics meaning you are about 15-20km up in the air and traveling at mach 1.5-2. That is impossible in game. The only problem facing the implementation of the Meteor is the fact that it can launched at near max in game ranges and will seek its own target out if it loses lock. On top of that, the Meteor is not hypersonic… not sure where you got that information from but it has a max speed of Mach 4 which by definition is not hypersonic
@@nikolaisuterovich yes i was wrong about hypersonic, i thought it was mach 3 and above, and also in game it is possible to be mach 2 at somewhere between 13 and 16km i dont really remember, but still, stealth is already moddeled ingame with the f117 nighthawk and changing it to work with the f22 and how the modern radars detect it would be much easier, with a lot of guesswork but they could nerf stealth for balance, with the meteor though, i dont see whats ur argument for me being wrong about the meteor except from speed, but if they do put the real procedures from the meteor it will definetly be super broken ingame if they dont nerf it a lot. so i dont think it will be added before the f22.
the Rafale can carry 72 small caliber or 32 large caliber flares
Jamming the wez is probably my fav most funny air terms
Rafale C should be able to carry 10 MICAs as it has two inline fuselage MICA pylons, two offset fuselage pylons plus two under wing and one wingtip pylon on either side.
on the F4 version
@@kyllianfr49 No thats part of the standard F3 upgrade, the F4 upgrade gave improved avionics and ground capabilities but no change in air to air
@@baconater3824 on the F3R it can also shoot meteors perhaps which will add it
The Mirage 4000 was a prototype, very performant but way too expensive to build, and it culminated in the Rafale. The Mirage 2000 was replaced by the Rafale as an upgraded platform with canards - enabling shorter take off / landing run, and improving the instantaneous turn rate. Twin engine brings more survivability in combat, especially in Close Air Support.
hope gaijin adds ecm pods in the future. would really benefit some jets like the j10 as its cm count isnt too high compared to other jets
5 hours after posting, you got 36,800 subs, keep going man you have a fire channel
that ending tk tho. ppl will literally do ANYTHING to get the missile off, they dont care about any friends nearby lmao
Stay tuned for future changes to the FM, as well as an increase in flares amount to 72. Also a suggestion for reduced frontal RCS was passed to dev.
Hey Seek, as a fellow creator I am also hyped thing up coming up soon and as a French player I am ecstatic that the Rafael is coming to war thunder I can only hope that in the future or thunder may possibly add the meteor missile which both the year fighter and the Rafael can carry. Great video thanks
the meteor is going to cause a lot of carnage in the upper Br, I think gajin will nerf it a lot
Rafale is equipped with the Thales RBE2 AESA radar.
Im mostly looking foward to IRST. Sneaky MICA's is gonna be so much fun.
That is, if they model it correctly. Which if we look at Flankers, i dont have my hopes high.
I hardly play air in warthunder, Really all I play is the Do335 premium because my buddy convinced me to buy it. I bet If I played more air I would like it more but I'm so buns at it that id rather just sick to ground but for some reason I find myself really enjoying your videos.
One they need to add the 64 flares, second need 8 missile load out which it has in real life.
As far as I know only Rafale's from M family can use Magic 2's but still, this one lacks at least 2 additional pylons for mica's, up to 4 additional possible missile pylons for mica em, mica VA, mica IR and meteor missiles in the inner and outer wings
**EDIT**
Of course it lacks countermeasures also..
that tk at the end was great
I got a good laugh from the dev blog with them calling the MICA one of the best long range missiles in the game. long range lol.
They did confirm Magic 2's in it though.
At this rate I wouldn't be surprised if we get the Gripen E with its 7x Meteor and 2x IRIS-T loadout by mid 2025
Can’t wait for that!
if he adds the meteor (MBDA) the Rafale, Typhoon and Eurofighter will also have it and I think the Americans and other nations will complain extremely
The Eurofighter and Panzerhaubitze 2000 made my German heart 🥜
I was excited for the Su33, but then my hopes and dreams were shattered because its gonna take 4 years to get enough squadron points while f2p
Congratulations on 36.7k 2 hours after the video went live.
I think they should add mica ir and just give it flare resistance similar to the 27ET.
Gameplay over realism pls
If the eurofighter can carry 6 amraam + 4 aim9li/m I'd agree
Also give rafale 2 more missiles for mica ir
Oh seek, where do I even begin
the late joining is quite annoying lol, I killed 4, see one last guy, kill him, thought game is gonna end with 1 mins fuel and no missile left, and two more spwaned in😃
devs confirmed the rafale will be getting 2 magics 2 for the load out also and the rafale can actually carry 12 micas not 6 or 8
the only thing to give rafale bvr edge is meteor with 160km and mica NG with 130km range
These type of missiles are just way too advanced for the game right now. They might come later, but not now.
@@Theratsnatcher just a rework of Mica flight model (can reach up to 80km) so it would be a great improvement rn
Where do you get that MICA NG range number ?
@@nicolaspeigne1429 MICA NG is around 110km effective range (@20km more than normal MICA EM)
@@nicolaspeigne1429 from multiple sources and from mbda themselves and 130km is the max range of missile in high alt it can't be achieve in normal battle, but what we know 100% that the MICA NG has double the mica
NTZ "No-Transgression Zone" mica EM 10km mica NG of impressive 21km so from that information we know it at least going to be hitting 50km shot bvr with ez
I like how the US has to have 1980s airframes going against 2004 and on. The F-15C MSIP went into service in 1985, and the F-15E in 1989. Meanwhile the Typhoon went into service in 2002, the Su-27SM in 2004, the J-10A in 2005, and the Rafale in 2004 (Navy) and 2006 (Air Force). So if these do dominate the META, "Congrats Jake Paul, you just beat up a 59 year old man". At this point, the US should have the F-22A, which entered into operation service in 2005. Why we couldn't get a 1970s F-18 Legacy Hornet or 1999 F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet is just blatant incompetency on Gaijin's end I guess.
Americas primary Fighter IRL still is the F-15 slowly being replaced by the F-35…are you suggesting they add the F-35?
I’m not opposed to the f/a-18 being added and I want it in the game but America doesn’t really have newer airframes besides the f-22&f-35
AESA doesn’t ping RWR and has near instantaneous scan
Just subbed!
As a sidenote on the dev server I fought my friend in both the ref fell and the Mira 2000 in a dogfight whilst the Euro fighter does win in the won turn both the mirage - 5C and the ref fell beat the Euro fighter after the first turn I have tested this in 25 matches and won all of them so as of now from my experience both the mirage 2000-5 C and the Raphael can beat the year fighter in a dog fight. Bracket guns and missile bracket.
Y’all can’t dogfight if the 2000 is winning😭
@@lilMungo would you like to have a go?
rafale goat
The plot twist at the end was unexpected but not at all surprising
i wanna see how the Rafaele pairs against the j10
what an ending
Rafael is my favorite aircraft in the world
I love the rafale but the EF is still better tbh
"seeker head special" eats tree
GIB MORE RAFALE CONTENT
F-15E, EF, Rafale went up to 14.0
The current implementation of the Rafale is absolute bullshit, it’s supposed to get :
- MICA-EM-NG (With AESA in each missile)
- MICA-IR-NG (With multi frequency heat-seeker)
- SPECTRA electronic jamming system with IRCM, 360 MAW and LWS along with radar jamming and spoofing
- DIRCM so no need for classic « flares »
- Reduced RCS of about 1-0,5 m2
- Scalp, ASMPA, Exocet etc.
What is the worst to me is that they choosed to implement the F3R standard when they just could’ve gone for the rafale A which was the demonstrator, or even for the F1 standard that historically had Magics 2 (because MICA weren’t out yet). And it’s only for the rafale, EF2000 has the very same lackluster implementation.
I will play top tier jets when they add guns only air rb
Dev blog said it’s gonna have magic 2s
@@HOODxRICHxLEO yeah, something F-3 standard dont even use
@@ivanbarbancon8750okay? Better then not having any fox 2 capabilities
@ what about MICA IR
How in dev server the rafale have more trust vs eurofighter with weaker engine?
eu2000
Maximum thrust: 60 kN (13,500 lbf) and 90 kN (20,200 lbf) (with reheat)
Overall pressure ratio: 26:1
Bypass ratio: 0.4:1
Air mass flow: 75-77 kg/s (9,900-10,200 lb/min)
rafale
Maximum thrust: 50 kN (11,200 lbf) and 75 kN (16,900 lbf) (with afterburner)
Overall pressure ratio: 24.5:1
Bypass ratio: 0.3:1
Air mass flow: 65 kg/s (143 lb/s)
so what is this? really interesting…
Wonp Womp RAFAL SUPIOIR
I need the mirage on sale gaijin trolled me with the November sale wanted to grind France back then so hopefully they don’t fuck over France for Christmas sale
i grinded france without premium and it was quite enjoyable.. but mirage is worth if it is on sale because the magics 2 slap.. 530f sucks tbh but sometimes they surprise you
@ usually I try to free to play but it’s like 4 million rp to rafale and I got the Chinese mirage 2k and wanna try the 4k out
@@Idk-cz9ms the game now is quite easy than at the time when money was difficult to earn with RP
we need ec mode, or 8v8 mode
Rafal nerfed is better than the EU2000
You guys know that you( GER/UK/FR/ITA) can literally just enoy being on the top for 1 update as China and Russia will hit the first 2025 update with some Paper Tiger and Bears which will outperforme everything
Let’s all wish that gaijin nerf the EF and rafale to make them more realistic
they are already done, the nerfs will be unrealistic and then the burst is already nerfed
What is the best grinder for Germany? And should I rather grind France? (Both air and ground)
MiG21bis Lazur and Mirage F1. Bis is more fun right now. Don’t know ground
Depends. Leopard 2A7V is together with the 122+ best of the best tank wise, and Germany has some more top notch versions Gaijin can add. The rest of the German lineup is also very nice. And EF is and will be also one of the best jets for a long time. French ground is worse imo and jets are on par I would say.
yes
in reality the French vehicles are good if you play well, from AMX it's enjoyable, and Aerien frankly extremely good and better if you are towards mirages
So much potential but gaijin is going to waste it…. Sucks from my favorite non American plane
when was next sale
SoonTM
Give britain rafale through india!
Britain already has Eurofighter though they dont need both
@@spooney6451 and why not? :)
@@spooney6451 in any case if he adds other countries which have the Rafale, there will be Great Britain too, because the countries which currently have the Rafale, Egypt, Greece, Croatia, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Serbia (it is on order ) there is India, soon Peru and Brazil and Spain (all 3 can be on order)
Isnt Rafale have like 14 hardpoints ? he could carry more than 6 missiles.
yes but they cant carry missiles on the f3
what sound mod do you use?
Uses JWSM the sound mod which makes all the vehicles in the game realistic
None
Guys what is an aesa rader and would it be useful?
It’s a more advanced PESA radar and it will be extremely useful.
@RienRocks ok i see but what's a pesa rader😂😂
@@jinx_rogue It’s very complex and I’d advise looking it up for yourself, but extremely dumbed down:
a PESA radar uses antennas in a fixed position, but uses electricity to steer the “radar beam” that comes from those antennas without actually moving the antennas themselves, and since it moves the “radar beam”“digitally” instead of physically, it can scan much much faster.
This is way more efficient than moving a big radar dish inside of an aircraft that’s limited to a lower scan speed.
EFT is better now
It rips at 1450 bro
Wow look more mindless spamno stock aircraft has any chance to counter
With current changes, for WT, its FM is significantly worse, at alt, it sheds all its speed, its slower down low, it carries 2 less missiles and unless they make its radar ultimate TWS weapon and HMD to be actually able to lock. It will be straight up downgrade.
2000-5F even get more CMS, even if 72 normal slots gets throug. It will have less CMs.
They either unfuck mica range and drag or this thing is worse than plane its supposed to replace.
The rafale actually has the better FM now
@@SeekerHead I mean, does it? If iam not mistaken, it still sheds speed like crazy at altitude and its max speed just got nerfed based on number without any specification if its high alt limit, low alt limit, engine limit, airframe limit, cockpit limit or ordnance loadout.
It cant pass 1500 ias.
If they properly implement the aesa with TWS, it might be good as my main issue with 2000-5F is TWS and how poorly its implemented with one bar only. This significantly kills my SA in clouds across whole map, both down low and up high (90% maps these days). Usually i die on someone just appearing 5-7 km away where i could have seen him approaching with proper scan patterns.
I dunno if even aesa can save it though. I want to mainly play sim and there is a lot of BVR there on large maps and we all know how gimped mica is in this regard. From supposed range level of amraam B irl to glorified BFM missile.
@@SeekerHead what nahhh, The rafale turns better at some speeds but the eurofighter has higer thrust to weight, better acceleration, better high speed turn rate and the EF does not shed speed as much
@Thermal6 the rafale is way better in a dogfight now than the eurofighter
@Thermal6 not anymore
Not having 8 mica's so sad
This variant only gets 6?
It’s like asking for the f15e to have 16 amraams because the ex gets 16
@@ddogoo3749all variants can carry up to 10 missiles.
@@ddogoo3749 rafale f4 can carry 8 mica and this plane is 14.0 BR
the issue is that it was always going to be like this but it wouldn't have felt so much like a downgrade if gaijin hadn't (wrongly) added the mirage 2000-5f with 8 air to air missiles. They really shot themselves in the foot with that decision (once again)
MICA's are honestly really annoying, not saying theyre OP of course but good god they are annoying at SARH/Medium ranges
The Rafale is still faster than average so just the extra air speed and thrust alone will make them more deadlier
F18 the most hyped jet from the update. But its yet again not coming. This is legit the perfect time to introduce 4.5 gen across the board. Watch they will put the f18 out next year with aim7s and aim9l instead of with 9m and 120s when they are already at stealth. And give us the shittiest version for the most anticipated plane in war thunder history. F18 more iconic then the f16
F18 is a bottom tier Gen IV. Not a gen 4.5
@@brendensmithmusic278 they could basically add rn
F/A-18C
F/A-18E
And even the F why not
@@SeekerHead idk what your smoking. The early f18 is 4th gen. But the everything after E is 4.5 gen. And your also proving my point of why it is needed to be released with this update. The f18a is exactly like the baby between the f15a and the f16a. It 10 missiles. F16 manueverability with f15 weapons load. Between aim9 and 120s good cm crazy ground strike capability too. Developed same time as eurofighter and is thought to be the better dogfighter although all thats purely speculative till an actual engagement occurs. They will put the eurofighter out. Let it be good for a little to appease the german mains that arnt content having the best ground tree. Please the f18 people but give us the shittiest version. Then they will either release the f18 right before going full into stealth so it can dominate the 4.5 gens for a little. I really hope once they get the rafale. Eurofighter and f18 out they flesh out more before going to next gen. Feels like we just got the f16/su27 and aim120s thought stealth was another few years out.
100% convinced the f18 is gonna be a premium
after you had the F15 and the F114 so the next one is there's an American plane, well put it in some update to let the other nation have their plane so don't worry about it next time it's on the F18 is the
As far as I know, the eurocanards (Gripen included) should all have *VERY* close flight performance. So much so that it genuinely comes down to the pilot. The biggest differences between them are concerning radar, top end engine performance, and missiles.
So true!
You gotta quit recording in an empty bathtub mang
The rafale F3 irl cannot carry magic 2
Suscribe ! good video
First
good upgrade? lmao, mirage 2000 is better in 3/4 aspects compared to this garbage rafale xD
Rafale shouldn't be buffed. Frances got too many loved.
RN Rafale is way better then EF
So sad they dare to make EF have lower T/W than Rafale
« and in Typical top tier fashion we get team killed by a Neanderthals fox 3 » lol