Aight, so. Since you asked in the description, Imma go all out here with trying to explain myself. Because I'm one of those weirdos who thinks that Advance 2 is just straight up THE best 2D Sonic game in terms of mechanical engagement. The Adventure 2 comparison on Advance 2 coming off like an Adventure 2 level completely flabbergasted me as a comparison, because Advance 2, if you're engaging with it right, is the complete opposite of that. The complaint you mention is that there's just a lot of speed, with little actual platforming going on. But I feel that's because of a bit of a misconception you seem to have about Advance 2, judging by your footage. Other than the new mechanics, the biggest distinction between Advance 2 and say...Sonic 2, is how it handles the idea of multiple path ways. Sonic 2 has a structural habit you can very easily pick up on of almost every act in that game being structured to where the top path is always the ideal one. Now, for a given level, I've never had an issue with this, but when the entire game is built like that, it kind of undermines the very reason the levels have multiple paths to begin with. The point is for replay value, the idea that, until you explore every option available to you, you won't be able to figure out which path is going to get you the most efficient route through these levels. And Sonic 2 kind of drops the ball in this regard because it's predictable, hence relegating every other path to kind of a waste of time, because going into most of its levels, you can notice the level designers' habits and exploit them to not have to bother exploring the rest of the levels. Judging by your footage, you seem to be playing this like it's Sonic, 2, conditioned to assume that the top will always be the best route. That's where Advance 2 differs so heavily from prior Sonic games. In Advance 2, there is no single best path in any level. What I mean by that is that you can't stick to JUST the top, the middle, or even the bottom or however many routes there are. No, you need to figure out which segments of each route are the most ideal and recognize when it's smart to switch between them to get the most out of each. Sometimes there are segments of level that straight up can't be taken full advantage of unless you come at it from a vantage point on another route. A prime example of this is Music Plant Act 1, where, after that first slope that you can jump off of to go up top with those bean things and the keyboard, there's a spring which you need to jump over which will land you on a platform which curves down into the bottom path. But if you jump off it at the right angle before it sends you down there, you can shoot Sonic through a tunnel to skip over most of the stuff in this room. And you can't take full advantage of that sloped platform unless you fall onto it from above, because the sequence on its own route leading up to it is designed so that you can't cross the gap without slowing down, or otherwise risk falling to a lower path, necessitating the interaction of routes to get the most out of both. Every path tends to play a significant role in an ideal run of an Advance 2 level, and there are actually habits in the level design you can pick up on to notice when you aren't on the ideal route, similar to how you can instinctually tell when a speed trap is coming. And this here is why the Adventure 2 speed stages comparison baffles me so much; in Advance 2, if there is so much as a hint of you allowing yourself to coast by, letting level set pieces whisk you away, that's your hint that you're not on the ideal route. Advance 2 uses the spectacle to distract you from the fact that it's actually leading you astray. This is your punishment for being lazy as a player. On top of the typical speed traps (which this game treats like an artform, might I add), it adds this new form of speed trap that's been scarcely applied in previous games of luring you into a false sense of security. And once you start looking out for when these types of set-pieces crop up and start going out of your way to avoid them, that's when Advance 2 becomes so engaging as it is capable of. Relying on automation is consistently treated as a bad thing. One of the few examples Sonic 2 breaks the mold, actually, is Oil ocean act1. Taking the top route will see you blasted all over the place with canons, but that actually adds an average of 30 seconds to a run, because the paths it leads you on result in you having to double back on yourself and climb back to the bottom where the stage bottlenecks anyway. This level punishes you for not taking matters into your own hands and carving your own path. While it's an outlier in Sonic 2, and the rest of OOZ 1 isn't the best in spite of that structurally interesting note, Advance 2 takes that concept of demanding that you experiment with the level layouts and applies it consistently. For example: at 12:05 in your footage, you come to this rail here, but no matter how you approach that rail, you're always going to come to a near-dead stop before getting to the end. By the end of it, almost all of your speed has been killed, which should be odd coming off of prior Sonic games, because this is the top route. This is the first instance of the game trying to demonstrate that the top won't always be the ideal one. Similarly, I don't think you actually use that piece of footage in this video, but it was in your update video from a few days ago, early on in Ice Paradise Act 1, once you climb to the top, there's a loop which you have to climb over the top of before entering it from the right, which leads down into a room where there's a bar Sonic grabs onto and starts swinging around on it. That video mostly consisted of you practicing runs for that act, and every single time you retried, you always went up there. But that isn't the ideal route. There's an entrance to that same room the loop brings you to from the left, and if you look at a zone map, you'll notice that the upper route takes you on a very roundabout manner to get to that room, whereas, if you had jumped over the ramp that flung you up there and just entered the room from the left, it would have saved a bunch of time for you, with the swinging bar now acting as a tool to fling yourself back in the opposite direction without having to come to a dead stop from that left entrance, since the exit is also on the left. Similarly, with the ramp at the start of Hot Crater act 2, if you fail the timing on it the jump, you'll land on a rail which will railroad you to the top path, which is full of twists and turns and dead stops killing your forward movement. That's your hint that it isn't ideal. If you come back to that ramp at the start, and nail the timing, the angle Sonic is launched at in fact sends him right down the middle, and staying on that middle path up until roughly the half way point when they all bottleneck and split up again is key. Now, you might be wondering how exactly you can consistently create challenge out of the top not being the ideal path. Prior games had the top path be ideal because it made the fail-states easy to design; you fall down, you lose. But what Advance 2 does is create circumstances where the level design tries to constantly toss you off and desperately keep you away from the ideal paths like its life relies on it, with the challenge being to avoid those and keep on the straight and narrow. That Hot Crater Act 2 and Ice Paradise Act 1 examples I just described are examples of that kind of design in practice (as is the spring in my music plant act 1 example you need to jump over to engage with what I was talking about); if you let it whisk you away as it tries to do, you'll be sent to a much worse route, where maintaining a consistent flow state is harder in the case of Hot Crater, because that route is purpose built to slow you down as punishment for passivity, and the Ice Paradise example is trying to trick you into thinking it's the ideal route, when in reality, it isn't. Just as an example, look at how far Techno base Act 2 can just be bent over backwards in your favour by subverting given individual routes and purposefully avoiding springs and boost rings which would otherwise railroad you into less ideal positions, and using the air dash to circumvent what would otherwise be linear sequences of waiting for Sonic to pick up speed on grindrails after falling directly on top of one; th-cam.com/video/PpeAV4DISgE/w-d-xo.html I tend to look at Sonic levels and assess their quality by asking myself a simple question; "how much can I do to optimise a run through this?", and VERY much unlike Adventure 2, where a lot of the railroading it does is simply unavoidable, and where, you're right; a lot of it's platforming hardly does count as platforming, Advance 2 couldn't be farther from that. Advance 2 has some of the greatest potential for optimisation out of any Sonic game. The disparity between the length of a first run of a given level and an optimised run can be absolutely nuts at times. Hell, the only level I'm not so much of a fan of in Advance 2 is Hot Crater Act 1, specifically because of how relatively little room there is for optimisation. With those rails Sonic hangs onto right at the start and the route that leads you to, there's no reason to bother exploring the other paths because that one; the one you're on by default, is by far the most efficient. There's very little skill involved with optimising Hot Crater Act 1 compared to pretty much every other level in the game.
Wow. This is very interesting. And I see what you mean. The tendency to assume the top is the fastest is making me fall for traps that I'm not even seeing. Normally, why wouldn't I jump off a ramp that's going to launch me up to a rail? That's obviously the thing to do because it's at the top. But getting to the top involved just holding right. It was a punishment. That's probably why they removed collision on the sides of springs. So you can carelessly run into them and get launched up, which now can house slow paths. This kind of design does crop up occasionally in other Sonic games, but it is rare. Most of the time the top is the way to go. The use of gravity to knock you down creates for an obvious tiering system that is clean, structured, and easy to understand. But the idea of springs and such launching you up being the same thing, just in the opposite direction, totally went over my head. Now that you point it out though, it makes so much sense. It's more like there is an optimal route, and surrounding it both above and below are a bunch of elongated detours that only exist to waste time. And you have to figure out where these detours are and avoid them. It is exactly as I said in the video. My experience with every other Sonic game was messing me up here. This game is designed very differently, and I was totally blind to it. What's weird is that it's not just prior Sonic games, but future ones too. Advance 3 immediately goes back to the usual design. And so do the Rush games and all the boost games too. This game is an anomaly, much like CD, which also has level design that doesn't really work when played in the typical fashion. But that game was going for something so different that it was easy to identify. The similar but different levels of this game make it harder to realize there even is a difference. Unlike what I said in the video, this game is in fact altering how Sonic level design works to mix things up. I don't know how I feel about this. On paper, I do like the sound of it. It allows for the level design to be much more varied and free form with routing. It also means more experimenting to figure out what the optimal routes are, rather than just ignoring everything below the top path. But I also really like the tiered levels. They work really well as automatic game balancing depending on player skill, and are much more easy to pick up on. Which I think is important considering how few people even understand how Sonic levels are supposed to work in the first place. It may be predictable, but that doesn't bother me. I still always found it really fun. And I still think the lack of platforming here is a downgrade. But now understanding how its built, I wonder if you even could incorporate more elaborate platforming where it wouldn't just be skipped by taking a different route? But I am definitely intrigued to give this game another look with this new understanding. Probably won't be right now. But I might have to do a follow up video for this game at some point. Thanks so much for this amazing comment. You did for me what my videos have been doing for so many of my viewers. Teach me the in-depth elements of a Sonic game. With my level of Sonic knowledge, that is not something many people can do. Bravo.
@@Pariah6950 man, it's kind of embarrassing to get a reply that's so positive. tbh I was as surprised as you probably were reading that going into Advance 2. Having picked up on the handful of outliers in other games, I was sort of hoping that there was a Sonic game out there that elaborated on that structural idea, so I was primed to notice this, unlike most, I assume (don't want to sound like I'm tooting my own horn or anything). But having just played and routed Rush right before diving into Advance 2, which, as you say, is structured just like Sonic 2 (though with Deadline act 1 as an outlier of its own), I never expected I'd find what I was looking for in Advance 2, and so started out also playing it like Sonic 2 myself. It was that example in Leaf Forest Act 1 I cited with the rail that had it click for me. I'd started routing that level first, but after a few dozen or so runs of assuming the top was in fact ideal, it began nagging at me that there seemed to be no way to maintain my speed going through that rail. Which is when, instead of jumping over the loop leading to the rail in the first place, I tried going down there to see what would happen, and I noticed I was getting to the end of that stretch of the level way faster by going this way than by going up top where the rail was, which lead me down the rabbit hole of spending the entire rest of that afternoon experimenting with other traversal options throughout the act, and currently my PB for Leaf Forest act 1 sits at pretty satisfying 00:44:22. The only zone I haven't routed yet in Advance 2 is Egg Utopia, so for all I know, that one could be a stinker and sour what's otherwise one of the most consistent sets of levels I've ever seen in a Sonic game. But yeah, I'm pretty happy with it. Glad I could do a good job at explaining it. Maybe I should try making my own video about it...take a shot at salvaging its dicey reputation, even a little. Thanks for the kind words, and you're welcome. Love your videos. That feeling you described of having your perspective reshaped on Advance 2 is something your videos have done for me MANY times. So keep it up.
@@Pariah6950 Oh and one more thing, specifically regarding how Advance 2 seems to be a bit of an anomaly in terms of how different it is in going about utilising the idea of multiple paths; one thing that's super interesting to think about is that Sonic 1, of all things, has some elements of this kind of design throughout a fair few of its levels. Green Hill Act 1 can be beaten way quicker when you jump immediately after coming out of those tubes after the loop to avoid being tossed into the air. Sticking to the floor there is actually a more direct route to the end than where you get shot to. You can save several seconds in act 2 by jumping to the left at the start to go under the start of the stage where the speed shoes monitor is, and blitz through the rest of it, and act 3's opening stretch can be gotten through quicker at the bottom, with you then switching up to the top before the breakable wall via the spring, where there's, again, a speed shoes monitor waiting for you to find. Spring Yard Act 1 mostly prioritises the top, but it also requires you to veer off to the left to grab a speed shoes monitor right at the start (going against your typical instincts to constantly push forward) to make the most out of the level and skip the moving blocks segment in that act. Act 2 also benefits from remaining at the bottom instead of taking the spring up top half way through. Though in that case, I'm not so receptive to it since sticking to the bottom is much easier than going up top in this instance. Star Light act 1 can be ran through a fair bit quicker by jumping down to the middle once you get to the segment with those three sets of rotating platforms. Scrap Brain Act 1 also has a segment right at the end where, if you stay on the top route, you'll be forced through a segment of waiting for those horizontal pillars to move out of the way, so the challenge there becomes about figuring out where throughout the level is the best place to jump down to the middle, since you can skip that segment entirely by going through the middle of the last third of the act. Surprisingly, a majority of Sonic 1's better levels do actually incorporate combining segments of different routes into ideal runs, Advance 2 just seems to take that concept and runs with it, involving a lot more interaction than the one or two times, at most, Sonic 1 will ask you to. But the most interesting thing about this comparison is that, a lot of Sonic 1's pathway interaction involves the speed shoes in some form. Sonic Advance 2's Boost Mode functions very much like the speed shoes, except instead of being a pick-up, it's an organic part of Sonic's moveset, and it accomplishes the same thing speed shoes monitors did with how Sonic 1 used them, but incorporates more of a puzzle solving element into it; instead of simply figuring out where the speed shoes monitor is and routing around its location, the player needs to figure out how to navigate the level layout as to activate boost mode. It serves the same purpose, but puts more control into the players hands of how they go about it. So it makes me wonder if Advance 2 looked to Sonic 1, more so than 2 or 3K for inspiration. This does seem to go against what Dimps were known for, what with both of their previous games having pulled more from 2, but there are a surprising number of things in Advance 2 that hearken back to things Sonic 1 and Sonic 1 alone seemed to do. Y'know, aside from half of Sonic 1 actively being designed to disengage with the game's mechanics, because Naka and Yasuhara seemed to think that was a great idea at the time.
@@Harrinsain This was actually my first sonic game, and I still love it to this day, I assume that it helped me and other people that started with this game to learn the level design more without any real preexisting ideas of how Sonic levels generally work.
th-cam.com/video/eatIzqwB2dA/w-d-xo.html Christ died for your sins and rose on the third day, showing that anyone who trusts in him for salvation, will have everlasting life. (John 11:25-26) "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" (John 3:16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
If they put this game on a bigger screen and zoomed out the view, lessened the amount of special rings, and tied the Chaos Emeralds to your save file rather than the character, I feel like it would be a *lot* better. The level design would be much more tolerable if you could actually see what was coming ahead
Coming from someone who finished this game dozens of times, knowing what's coming makes most of the levels super fun to play since you get the flow of things. A remaster with zoomed out camera would do wonders for this game
@@Ismazing like the video said, the best solution is a remake. But these changes the guy suggested go a long way on fixing many of the problems with the game.
It's funny how you start out so positive and excited talking about how fun the game is, but then at a certain point you just take a nosedive and it just gets worse and more critical, because that's how it feels to *play the game* Also I will now forever describe Advance 2's stage design as "if yoko ono's 'music' was turned into a Sonic game" because of that comparison you made to Sonic design flow and music theory
This game was my childhood when i was growing up as a kid, took it all over america and even to canada one time. During the trip to canada before we got in the car i think i hit a weird spot in my cartridge cause for some reason the game was 100% completed. I was able to play the secret final zone and everything, but once i restarted the game, it went back to my normal save. I don’t know how it happened and i’ve tried replicating it ever since.
a weird thing like that happened for me on the old original game boy's 2nd game and watch game. Was 100% for the entire night then just reverted back the next day. Was really weird.
It's a shame you never said much about the art design and actual music in this game. One thing I really liked about the Advance series is that the later Eggman base zones get a lot more computer and 90s cyber/techno-themed which I think adds a fun difference between the more modern Eggman and the classic Eggman bases, which were more industrial, factory, and flying fortress themed. Also, the Music Plant and SA3's Toy Kingdom do a great job establishing the more childlike and exuberant parts of his character, which I think often gets looked over when the series so often goes back to the staple level themes of factories, military bases, and casinos (which may be fun but I wouldn't really say are childish). Also, I love the sound design in the Music Plant and how all the environmental sound effects, including the springs, are set to be like the instruments they look like and how they work with the main level music itself. It's really creative stuff and I don't know if any later Sonic game has matched that level of execution of its theming. Love the series, been watching for a while now, keep it up!
I've left a critical comment on a few of these videos so far. So, I shall instead leave my more positive thoughts this time around. I've really enjoyed this series. You really seem to understand Sonic in a way that most other just don't. Despite loving Sonic and analyzing its game design for my entire life, you've managed to consistently bring that rare moment where I can see and appreciate these games more from new perspectives I have never thought of. You've helped me take feelings I've never quite been able to express and fully put them into words. I thank you sincerely for making such consistently quality and thought-provoking content. With the context of the rest of the series, I am super excited to see what you have to say about Advance 3.
Grew up with Advance Trilogy and nothing else. You are correct, I never once got to a special stage. Even exploring the first level and climbing around as Knuckles, I just never found that 7th star ring I needed, probably due to lack of experience. Luckily, I did get to fight the true final boss (for which you normally need to collect all emeralds as Sonic, though I might remember wrong from 19 years ago). When the game loads your save file, it checks for whether you haven't done things rather than whether you have, so if the game fails to load your save, everything will just be unlocked as if you had it 100% completed. Dropping the cartridge in water or not playing for a year were some rumoured causes for this to happen. Either way, It happened to me so I got to experience that true final boss with that killer music. I find it interesting how the tracks for the cutscene before the boss are much longer than what you hear in-game, so certain parts of them are just never heard in the game (save for the sound test I think was in there). Great retrospective, looking forward to Advance 3.
I would love it if they added the Advance 2 boost mode as a separate character in future 2D games. Like give it to Shadow or Metal Sonic in a Mania 2 and they specifically have access to all the mechanical changes that come from it. Also you forgot to mention that item boxes also have the same change as springs in this game. You just run into them now and they instantly pop open.
On the level design, The issue is that the pacing is almost exclusively designed around the boost and trick systems. The fact the it's a state you have to activate means a lot the things you pointed out as flaws are practically necessary. You need lots of set pieces and straight ways to give players multiple chances to start a boost, you need ramps that leave you at an odd height or facing the wrong way to make the vertical and backwards tricks useful. A lot of sections don't work well, or at all if you try to play them like a normal sonic game. And it doesn't really work as a traditional platformer either. Because of this I've never liked this game either, but to be honest I'm hesitant to say it's outright bad. I feel like this, and a lot of the Dark age games could have become great with iteration. Sega and Sonic Team tried a lot of interesting things, but they never refined them and worked out the kinks. I think with a wider resolution and reworking the trick system and level designs on a character by character basis it would be much better.
Amazing video as always! Your interpretation of Knuckles in this game is really interesting because it’s the opposite of how I interpreted it as a kid (and though your footage doesn’t contradict my reading, maybe other elements of the game do, because I haven’t played it in a while). Anyway, I had always assumed Knuckles was kidnapped just like Tails and Cream. His sprite looks like he’s trying to punch his way out of a cage, not pilot a cockpit. And when Sonic accused Knuckles of being duped, I assumed that meant “tricked into being kidnapped” not “tricked into doing his bidding.” I think Knuckles embarrassment applies in both readings, and I think I’d expect a character like Knuckles to be angry while kidnapped rather than fearful like Tails and Cream. And then the explosion also makes sense in that context-Knuckles responds the way he does because Sonic, in saving him, also made him look foolish with the soot on his face, so I read Knuckles’ dialogue as being conflicted between his gratefulness and his embarrassment.
Something that helps quite a bit with the game's flow: you can press jump at the end of ramps or grind rails (that don't lead to ground) to get a much stronger jump, ramps giving you a speed boost usually and grind rails giving massive jumps consistently.
@@sandudelcea6707 Back when video games were super simple, Green Hill sufficed. But now that games are more complex than ever, sometimes parts of your kit aren't immediately apparent. Tutorials aren't bad, it's just a matter of how easy they are to skip, or how braindead they are. This would not be a braindead tutorial moment, to put a "Jump!" sign on a ramp or on a rail.
Knuckles being tricked is a series gag. I don't really see the issue beyond the optics of not liking how it makes Knux look. 3&K, Triple Trouble, SA1, here, and then later in stuff like Colors DS where Rouge is actually the one to trick him-I think the way X handles his post-3&K trickery is pretty solid: Knuckles knows Eggman is bad, but Eggman through a good performance and tugging on Knuckles' heroism as well as pre-existing grudge towards Sonic is able to fool him. I think because of how in-depth that was handled is what makes me forgive it. All Eggman has to say is that the Chaos Emeralds are at risk or that "he's the only one strong enough to stop Sonic" and it's pretty understandable on Knuckles' part that he gets tricked. Knux getting tricked is up there with "Long time no see" for me, and I think him not doing his job in stuff like the Riders games is more egregious.
Honestly Knuckles getting tricked so often was one of my least favorite aspects of X. You’d think he’d learn after so long that Eggman can’t be trusted
I can only describe the level design as "unkind". In previous games traps all felt like a fair punishment for being absent minded, whereas advance 2 felt like it was just straight up bullying my ass
Just beat this game for the first time and I agree with basically everything here but there's a couple things I noticed in my playthrough. Why did they remove roll lock cancelling as Sonic? In Advance 1 you could press the jump button in the air to remove roll lock (i.e. move in the air in ball form which you normally can't do specifically when jumping from the ground in ball form) but here you can't do that which is extremely annoying. At least the air dash can help a little but it doesn't fix the issue. On the flip side, I think needing to grab all 7 SP Rings - at least, the process of getting them - is actually pretty fun. Of course, I looked up a guide to find where they all are and I totally agree that actually finding them in the first place is terrible. BUT, once you know the route already it is kinda enjoyable to stick to a path without messing up. I had to do this a lot because I was really bad at the special stages.
Awesome video, and yeah Since I'm not as big on time attack, I am just not bothering with this game, nice video, and yeah Sonic and Pepsi man are by far the best duo
I absolutely adored this game growing up strictly because of the spectacle and INCREDIBLE music. Like most people, I never unlocked Super Sonic. Only game in the entire series I have never and will never do so in. What in the world were they thinking?
Really strange how every Sonic Advance game seems to differ a lot from each other on terms of how they're designed. Kinda feels like after the first one they decided to just use this series as experiments for different ways to design a 2D Sonic game. A bit of a shame, since we could probably have had more classic styled Sonic games if the devs decided to stick with the Advance 1 formula. 15:22 Also, a bit of feedback here: The text was a good way to better represent how you were feeling when playing the game, but it was a bit hard to focus on what you were actually saying during this part. If you're gonna use more of it, I think you should use it sparingly and only if you feel it's necessary.
Thanks for the feedback. It was an experiment and I assumed it might be confusing. Will probably limit it to single short phrases on occasion. More like what I did at 7:00.
Huh, I didn't expect a mention of Sonic Megadrive or any Western creation outside of a Sally mention until Sonic Colors. Since you focused so much on the games and the Japanese original stories, a quick mention of an Archie book was geniunely surprising. And yes, Knuckles being naive is a flaw that was used constantly, to the point it harmed the character, and then eventually led to Sonic Boom straight up making him dumb for the sake of comedy. I'm kind of surprised they didn't use Knuckles other character flaw that is his temper, as Knuckles is very grumpy (and speaking of Boom, it wasn't even adapted, Boom Knuckles is straight up chill and I don't remember him being grumpy, Boom Sonic however was very grumpy) I'm looking forward for the videos on Advanced 3 and Battle, but I wonder if you could do a character analysis of Cream the Rabbit in Advance 3. I remember Wikipedia citing a reviewer saying she is a ridiculous character and that led to curiosity from my part. You have spoken about characters before in depth, but I think you didn't go too deep with Cream back in the Heroes video. Do you think she is an ok addition to the character, or a filler character?
There's really not much to Cream. She was created to be the Team Rose flight character in Heroes. She's pretty much just Amy's Tails. She's cute, very much so in Sonic X, but not much more than that. I like her well enough. That's all I'll say for now. I'll talk about her more during Battle and Rush's story vids.
You saying that sonic levels are like songs just clicked something right on my head, I think that it is the single best statement about sonic levels, maybe it even works for others games
As a kid, I loved this game compared to the first Sonic Advance, and that's because this is one of the few sonic games where I feel I'm /actually/ going fast but still feel in control. From my experience, many Sonic games (particularly the 3d ones) have an issue with either being fast gameplay but poor control or good control, but it doesn't feel "fast" like a good Sonic game does. The tricks system is the absolute bread and butter of Sonic Advance 2, and the joy I had as a kid learning the levels and figuring out the flashiest routes and holding that speed boost made me feel epic, despite the sheer amount of set pieces and length stretches of just running. I'll agree that removing those lulls in player interactions with quality platforming segments would be, and as many have said, zooming the screen out to get a better view of your surroundings would make this game genuinely good. Somebody romhack Sonic Advance to have the boost/ring system, and perhaps an altered version of the tricks, and that there would be platforming perfection.
It is my least favourite sonic advance game like you because of the level design but hearing all these little details about how rings help with the boost mode, the tricks as well, it makes me reconsider my view on it I can't wait to play it again
Based on how you described the Sonic Advance 2 I can say that at best the experiment has gone wrong and at worst the team has dropped the ball. And I was kinda expecting negative comments about Sonic Advance 2 from you. But I am pretty sure that Sonic Advance 3 will redeem itself. Edit: After reading a very long comment, I don't think I can agree with my own comment here. I guess you could say Sonic Advance 2 is a misunderstood good game. Overall the Sonic Advance trilogy is a solid experience.
Glad everyone agrees the way to get into special stages in this games is absolute garbage. I have never talked to anyone who has liked them and it's one the most unfun things Ive done in a Sonic game.
The Chaos Emeralds are the major problem with the game. Getting access to a Special Stage is the worst in the series with having to get all 7 SP Rings in an act, which brings the game to a halt and isn't designed for exploration. Everyone has their own set of Chaos Emeralds, but you need to get all seven as Sonic to fight the true final boss, who is the hardest to get the SP Rings with. The Special Stages themselves are pathetically easy too because they knew how much of a pain getting into one was.
Crazy.. before Sonic 1-3 or the Wii games… this was the first Sonic I’d ever play. I was probably 6 years old, playing this only because a friend let me borrow their Gameboy. 😌 (Bring. Me. Back.))
I didn't even know before that rings pepsi cans make you boost quicker in this game. that's really cool, and fits the Sonic gameplay a lot. It makes me appreciate the boost mode mechanic in this game a lot more now.
have you considered the idea of making "supercut" versions of some of the videos in this series when it's close to complete? like, one video that consists of the classic series of games (1, 2, 3, CD, and chaotix) or ones for the adventures videos? i find those kinds of long edits of prior videos are really good to watch for background audio while im doing something else and other channels that I see do similar things with collections of their videos seem to get treated well by youtube's algorithm
I would love to have your opinion on how they used the lore and the characters on the new movies. I really like the movies and I think they went for something different than the main lore that already exists but I would love to hear what you think about it!
I haven't seen the second one. But I didn't care for how the first one was done. It's mostly superficial similarities to the games to get people interested in an otherwise generic and mediocre movie. Sonic as a character is nothing like game Sonic, and I hate his speed being a power and how blatantly they ripped off X-men's Quicksilver.
Honestly if it wasn't for the bottomless pits and the way you get the emeralds and unlock everything, this might've been my favorite Advance game. Casually, I can enjoy Advance 2, but trying to get everything...yeah, not happening. The only reason I've ever gotten to play as Amy, Super Sonic, played the Chao garden and got the sound test is because I used an Action Replay for the game. Even with save states in emulators, I still refuse to try and collect all the emeralds the way they wanted me to. The special stages are fun, but it's not worth the work you have to put in. So casually, Advance 2 is good. For a completionist run, it's bad.
That bit about the functionality of Pepsi and how the Boost Mode is something I feel not enough people truly give spotlight to. Historically the series has struggled to marry the Pepsi system direvtly into thr core gameplay but this game cracked the code on it. Glad you brought it up! Im gonna hard disagree about thr bosses. To me, these bosses are among some of the best by virtue of actually using the core mechanics of the game. You have to build up and control your speed and momentum and jumps in tandem with the terrain in order to fight them. I chalk up distate for them with most people just being that most people deep down dont even like bosses in Sonic to begin with. I kind of admire the Chaos Emerald system on paper. The idea of charting out a path in the level to do in a run makes sense conceptually. But good lord is it horrendous in practice. Really though, the fact you gotta get em all with every character is the part that makes it way over the line rather than just nuts. Im generally of the same mind when it comes to the criticisms of Adv 2s level design. Not specifically the critiques in of themselves, but the general idea that they lack balance limit what can be done design wise as a result.
Hey pariah. Great video, I've been anxiously awaiting this one. I got a couple things for our ongoing discussion. I actually like the slow acceleration in this game because of the overall design philosophy and how it all works in tandem to achieve the end result. That boost mode is such a fantastic reward for skilled play, that the slow acceleration is an organic and appropriate punishment for losing your momentum. Also the beginning of each level provides you with the opportunity to start at top speed (0 Pepsi can top speed) with the racing game mechanic to press right at the perfect time with the countdown and not start from a standstill.
I agree on principal about the acceleration. It's just say they went a bit overboard with how slow it is. The beginning boost also makes sense to start you off without the slow build. But you could just start the levels running like Rush does to get that. I don't think earning it with good timing is worth the problem it introduces.
@@Pariah6950 I disagree. Starting off running would prevent the slow buildup for free without requiring any timing, skill or input at all. The intro boost like a racing game is easy enough to time with practice, but requires an input at the very least lol I think raising the base slow speed a bit would be a better solution than increasing the acceleration
Idk if this is even worth saying, but there's this one offhand comment you made that was pretty insignificant in the scope of the game and this video but really stuck out to me for some reason. You seemed confused why the devs would lock Amy behind a goal as ludicrous as collecting all 7 emeralds with each character. It seems like something stupidly difficult that's not even worth attempting. Well here's how I see it: In this day and age completion, especially done as quickly and methodically as possible, is a much more well-realized thing in most video games. Because of that, people get really bent out of shape over games locking content behind really grindy challenges, which is why things like Super Mario Oddysey's massive post-game power moon count (weird example, I know) are frowned upon, as grinding out the game for nearly 1000 power moons would burn out any player and ruin the experience. What many players fail to see and the way I see it is that things like this are simply there to spice up repeat playthroughs, giving players an excuse to revisit the game and having those revisits actually feel like they mean something because you are actually progressing towards something new. It's not meant to be completed in a single day or week or even month, but rather a gradual build-up post-playthrough that yields unexpected rewards. Amy in Advance 2 is a reward for those kids who stuck through this game for years, and one random day collect that final emerald for seemingly no benefit , only to be greeted with an entirely new character to play with. Even if she doesn't drastically affect how the game plays, it's a truly incredible feeling, like the game is rewarding you for going above and beyond and sticking with it through all its challenges. It's not something to actively shoot for, but instead a fun bonus at the end of a long journey. Sonic has always catered to more arcade-like design sensibilities, encouraging replayability, and rewarding the player for mastering levels in their entirety. This is one of the ways Advance 2 does it, and while convoluted and arduous, it has it's own appeal that is shared by many video games of its era, and is lost in today's gaming landscape, filled with competionists, speedrunners, and anti-grinding sentiment. Idk if you'll even read this comment lol, I just wanted to get this random gripe about how some older games are perceived off my chest and see what you thought of it. Great vid as always, looking forward to the next one.
I can understand what you're saying. But in this case, I'd argue what you get is not worth the amount of work you have to put in to get it. And the process is just doing the same thing you've already done 3 more times. Not much of an achievement. Using Mario Odyssey as an example, I think getting 999 moons sucks not because of how many there are or how long it takes, but that the process is not enjoyable. Getting the standard 880 moons is fun to me because you're just playing the game. But the rest are just coin grinding. You're getting rewarded for arbitrarily wasting your time, rather than accomplishing a time consuming challenge. A good example to me would be something like N++, which has way too many levels for anyone to beat in a reasonable time. That is a game you chip away at over years, but not in a way that makes it feel pointless or arbitrary.
Literally every time I see someone talk about this game thy bring up how amazing Boost Mode is. What I wouldn't give to see the timeline where this became part of Sonic's Adventure gameplay style and was the main focus over the vastly inferior Boost mechanic.
I have a huge guilty pleasure with Advance 2 (probably because I beaten this game like 4 times). It has some good features like tricks and the boost function but holy crap the level design, special stage requirements, and ESPECIALLY the boss fights (The Aero Egg to be exact from Ice Paradise) are horribly trash. But for some reason playing this game is kind of fun since blazing through stages is pretty satisfying sometimes and it just feels nice to use tricks and such. Also the OST is great so I thought I should also point that out lol.
When you were saying in the Advance 1 video that you considered the problems with the series blown out and that everything was fine and gravy my only thought was "oh man I can't wait for the advance 2 video" and yep checks out I'm sorry for your loss I actually 100%'d the game back then and it basically required me to learn the levels by heart to plan special stages routes, where you could still fuck up because of the high-speed execution and required split-second thoughts the game forces on you through its level design. (special PTSD from Ice Paradise) I keep wanting to draw parallels to the boost games for that kind of speed-all-the-time gameplay but at least advance 2 had tight controls ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I agree on the level design. I always would get too frustrated with the passive trap screw the player obstacles. I really like the zones in advance because they breathe a little.
I will say this. Sonic Advance 2 is probably my favorite 2D Sonic game. The speed, the level design, and multiple characters to play as (remember when we could do that?). BUT! Yes, those special stages were the worst shit ever. I only ever got the first emerald as Knuckles. Sonic in particular was the most screwed when it came to finding those rings, but too bad. Want Super Sonic? Screw you! And having to get all emeralds with ALL characters is true cruelty, all just to unlock Amy. As a kid, I NEVER would've done that, not for Amy. Now if it was Shadow? Yeah...yeah I would've done it. I can see it now, printing off maps of all the stages, practicing for hours. It would've been Hell. So, I'm glad it was just Amy lol.
If you see this brother, if for some oddball wackjob reason you ever cover Sonic Shuffle man. Hit me up before you start playing and writing please LMAO. You'll learn way more from me than anywhere else. That being said This video plus the comment / conversation with Harrinsain were sick and it the frustrations you vented were amusing! I love these videos and I'm still glad I found you. The pocket adventure video was sick and I'm getting read to watch Advance 1 and then set aside more time to watch your stuff. Keep up the good work my man.
So I'm back again, this time I've played Advance 1 and 2 for the first time after watching your reviews and I definitely liked Advance 2 more, actually I enjoyed it more than all of the Genesis games, it's the 2D Sonic game that I most enjoyed by far (from 2D titles I have only played Sonic 1, 2, 3&K and Advance 1 btw) There is definitely something engaging in it's gameplay, especially after listening to your explanations about passive trap, I did find myself being able to predict a lot of moments in Advance 2 and the constant sense of speed and quick reaction time is really satisfying to pull off, and I never felt any lack of platforming. You also said this regarding Adventure 2 and again, I don't really agree with the platforming aspect because platforming is not just literally floating things that you jump and try to avoid to fall, in my view platforming is maneuvering the character in the environment with it's actions to avoid/defeat obstacles, just the sole action of jumping towards an enemy is platforming because you have to maneuver your character precisely to defeat it, the same applies to avoid a spike or a pit, all of this is platforming, It's not just literally floating structures that you jump one to the other, and both SA2 and SA2 (lol) has good amount of platforming in my point of view. I just never even remotely felt the need to have this "mario-like" platforming in Sonic, because I think there are more interesting ways to mix this with the high-speed action. A perfect example is grinding, to do this action you have to land of the rail, which is basically the same thing as landing on a normal platform the reward is the rail advancing you through the level while still maintain the sense of speed that this game (and Adventure 2 also) wants to have, so it basically serves as platforming AND rewards the player with speed for successful landing it, Homing Attack in 3D (at least in SA2 and Heroes) I also see as some kind of platforming although much simpler, since you have to aim properly and press the button at the right time, the player will fall off if not accurate enough. Another thing that I enjoyed a lot is the cheer mobility in the air with the extra moves that launches you to the side or upwards, the air dash is also incredibly fun to use with Sonic, S3&K also had an air dash with it's shield but I always felt it was too powerful and I barely used because it just makes Sonic dashes forward too fast, in Advance 2 is a lot more balanced and serves as another way to build speed. Those extra moves helps in creating more challenges in it's level design, for example, when there is an entrance with a spike on the ground, normally you would have to first land on the ground and jump through the spike, but here you can do an air dash or a side dash after a spring (I forgot how the latter it's called). I also liked the boss fights here because while they are pretty difficult, you can take your time to figure out the pattern because you're constantly running and in the path will always show up rings, so you'll only die if you aren't careful, in past games the boss fights were pretty much trial and error to death since it would always reach a point where you'll have no rings. Plus, Sonic's air dash helps a lot in getting closer to the boss! That being said, I agree that boss fights in Sonic games generally aren't as fun as the normal gameplay, even though Advance 2 did the best from the 2D games I played so far. A lot of people really hate this game claiming how unfair the level design is, and while there were indeed some unfair moments (especially with bottomless pits), 80% of my playthrough was pretty enjoyable. Also, Special Stages still suck, although at least the requirement is NOT collecting rings, taking damage really pissed me off in Sonic 1 and 2 because of that. Right now the only Special Stage I can enjoy playing is from Sonic Heroes' PC version.
SA2 feels the "fastest" of the 3. Level design accomodates this, as well as the spring changes. Personally it is my favourite of the GBA games, because it has the feeling of going fast, and you can mostly.keep top speed up in nearly all stages
I'd have to say I agree with this video 100%. Sonic Advance 2 has always been my least favorite 2D Sonic game and you've pretty much summed up why. Unfun level design, frustrating bosses, and ridiculously high expectations for completion.
22:15 i can confirm, finished advance 2 a bunch of times on my gba sp and only seen one of them on the youtube when i was at high school with a 3ds instead of gba. I love this game, i really do. The boost system makes it my favorite to time attack and i lost count of how many times i've seen all of the cutscenes of this game. Some of the things i'd like to see the modern games tackle are from this game, the boost system and rings giving boost faster are genius ways to make the momentum stuff flow while managing the platform tropes. To me what kills the game is the developers thinking these new stuff would not fit the previous style of level design, which is exactly what created the whole "wasn't the game supposed to put a trap here" moments. If they continued with the old style leaning more towards sonic 2 type of level designe, i truly believe this game would become the best portable game, since the framework is genius.
What is your definition of "Platforming"? I've been wondering this for a long time while watching your Sonic videos. Especially in this one, in the section where you play one of the levels while text is on-screen, you say that the one section where you bounce on fans was the only section of Platforming, but it looked like you were doing platforming before and after that. For example, the section where you have to choose between going into one boost ring that's right in front of you or the one that's above you, I'd say that's platforming. Or whenever you go on a ramp and don't quite have enough height, so you use a trick to jump up and land on it, I'd consider that a form of platforming. You're controlling a character to get onto a path. Or jumping onto that higher level where you were going too slow, so you fell down instead, that's like failing a platforming thing. And these examples are all before that place where you bounce on springs and try not to fall off. So, like, I'm genuinely curious, what is platforming to you?
Manually controlling a character to navigate an environment that requires precision of control. So picking between the hoop in front of me or above me is not platforming. No precision is needed. Just a direction and button. Same applies to homing attacks in the 3D games. A big thing I would point to is Prince of Persia or Assassins Creed. You jump around and climb, but all with pre-canned actions that you don't manually steer where you want once the action is initiated. "Platforming" in those games constitutes holding a button and going forward. Platforming in Crash takes you making those jumps yourself. You can line it up, time your jump right, and still fail because you didn't actually steer yourself onto the platform. That is platforming to me.
i liked the text explaining your thoughts, but it was VERY confusing simultaneously reading the text and listening to the different stuff you were saying.
One of the problems that i have is that unlike knuckles and tails cream wasn't build with special abilities like them and she was just tails with a chao and because of that i thing that this is a missaportunity because htey could so much with he not just gameplay but story because she is amys tails and they don't do anything with that and to make it worse she was added the time were amy was between appsesve fangirl or kind girl and use her for jokes on that part also they are not good ballancing the kindness of the two
People say Sonic Adventure 1 is divisive but most people agree that Sonic is good and the rest is mediocre to bad. But Sonic Advance 2 is like... Totally inconscistent, people say they hate but then there are people who just loves and has tons of explanations to do, I haven't played that much in my brother's GBA back then because I just hated that the first model didn't had backlight, you think It's bad to play a high-speed game that is also too fast in a small screen, but imagine also barely seeing a dark screen with some ghosting effect and with a sunlight reflecting on the screen... Like... It was just IMPOSSIBLE for me to play Sonic Advance 2 lol
I respect the points that are your opinion but This wasnt your best video. Its one thing to say the game isnt for you or not like the classics, its another thing entirely to say its badly designed. The less said about how you just glossed over all the other playable characters also, the better.
It's the gag about people constantly calling rings "coins" and it pissing off every sonic fan in the universe, and because Pariah is snarky as hell, since the 06' part 3 vid (iirc) he started calling them all kinds of weird stuff. Pepsi cans absolutely threw me the hell off this time around though lmao
Aight, so. Since you asked in the description, Imma go all out here with trying to explain myself. Because I'm one of those weirdos who thinks that Advance 2 is just straight up THE best 2D Sonic game in terms of mechanical engagement.
The Adventure 2 comparison on Advance 2 coming off like an Adventure 2 level completely flabbergasted me as a comparison, because Advance 2, if you're engaging with it right, is the complete opposite of that. The complaint you mention is that there's just a lot of speed, with little actual platforming going on. But I feel that's because of a bit of a misconception you seem to have about Advance 2, judging by your footage. Other than the new mechanics, the biggest distinction between Advance 2 and say...Sonic 2, is how it handles the idea of multiple path ways. Sonic 2 has a structural habit you can very easily pick up on of almost every act in that game being structured to where the top path is always the ideal one. Now, for a given level, I've never had an issue with this, but when the entire game is built like that, it kind of undermines the very reason the levels have multiple paths to begin with. The point is for replay value, the idea that, until you explore every option available to you, you won't be able to figure out which path is going to get you the most efficient route through these levels. And Sonic 2 kind of drops the ball in this regard because it's predictable, hence relegating every other path to kind of a waste of time, because going into most of its levels, you can notice the level designers' habits and exploit them to not have to bother exploring the rest of the levels.
Judging by your footage, you seem to be playing this like it's Sonic, 2, conditioned to assume that the top will always be the best route. That's where Advance 2 differs so heavily from prior Sonic games. In Advance 2, there is no single best path in any level. What I mean by that is that you can't stick to JUST the top, the middle, or even the bottom or however many routes there are. No, you need to figure out which segments of each route are the most ideal and recognize when it's smart to switch between them to get the most out of each. Sometimes there are segments of level that straight up can't be taken full advantage of unless you come at it from a vantage point on another route. A prime example of this is Music Plant Act 1, where, after that first slope that you can jump off of to go up top with those bean things and the keyboard, there's a spring which you need to jump over which will land you on a platform which curves down into the bottom path. But if you jump off it at the right angle before it sends you down there, you can shoot Sonic through a tunnel to skip over most of the stuff in this room. And you can't take full advantage of that sloped platform unless you fall onto it from above, because the sequence on its own route leading up to it is designed so that you can't cross the gap without slowing down, or otherwise risk falling to a lower path, necessitating the interaction of routes to get the most out of both.
Every path tends to play a significant role in an ideal run of an Advance 2 level, and there are actually habits in the level design you can pick up on to notice when you aren't on the ideal route, similar to how you can instinctually tell when a speed trap is coming.
And this here is why the Adventure 2 speed stages comparison baffles me so much; in Advance 2, if there is so much as a hint of you allowing yourself to coast by, letting level set pieces whisk you away, that's your hint that you're not on the ideal route. Advance 2 uses the spectacle to distract you from the fact that it's actually leading you astray. This is your punishment for being lazy as a player. On top of the typical speed traps (which this game treats like an artform, might I add), it adds this new form of speed trap that's been scarcely applied in previous games of luring you into a false sense of security. And once you start looking out for when these types of set-pieces crop up and start going out of your way to avoid them, that's when Advance 2 becomes so engaging as it is capable of. Relying on automation is consistently treated as a bad thing.
One of the few examples Sonic 2 breaks the mold, actually, is Oil ocean act1. Taking the top route will see you blasted all over the place with canons, but that actually adds an average of 30 seconds to a run, because the paths it leads you on result in you having to double back on yourself and climb back to the bottom where the stage bottlenecks anyway. This level punishes you for not taking matters into your own hands and carving your own path. While it's an outlier in Sonic 2, and the rest of OOZ 1 isn't the best in spite of that structurally interesting note, Advance 2 takes that concept of demanding that you experiment with the level layouts and applies it consistently.
For example: at 12:05 in your footage, you come to this rail here, but no matter how you approach that rail, you're always going to come to a near-dead stop before getting to the end. By the end of it, almost all of your speed has been killed, which should be odd coming off of prior Sonic games, because this is the top route. This is the first instance of the game trying to demonstrate that the top won't always be the ideal one.
Similarly, I don't think you actually use that piece of footage in this video, but it was in your update video from a few days ago, early on in Ice Paradise Act 1, once you climb to the top, there's a loop which you have to climb over the top of before entering it from the right, which leads down into a room where there's a bar Sonic grabs onto and starts swinging around on it. That video mostly consisted of you practicing runs for that act, and every single time you retried, you always went up there. But that isn't the ideal route. There's an entrance to that same room the loop brings you to from the left, and if you look at a zone map, you'll notice that the upper route takes you on a very roundabout manner to get to that room, whereas, if you had jumped over the ramp that flung you up there and just entered the room from the left, it would have saved a bunch of time for you, with the swinging bar now acting as a tool to fling yourself back in the opposite direction without having to come to a dead stop from that left entrance, since the exit is also on the left.
Similarly, with the ramp at the start of Hot Crater act 2, if you fail the timing on it the jump, you'll land on a rail which will railroad you to the top path, which is full of twists and turns and dead stops killing your forward movement. That's your hint that it isn't ideal. If you come back to that ramp at the start, and nail the timing, the angle Sonic is launched at in fact sends him right down the middle, and staying on that middle path up until roughly the half way point when they all bottleneck and split up again is key.
Now, you might be wondering how exactly you can consistently create challenge out of the top not being the ideal path. Prior games had the top path be ideal because it made the fail-states easy to design; you fall down, you lose. But what Advance 2 does is create circumstances where the level design tries to constantly toss you off and desperately keep you away from the ideal paths like its life relies on it, with the challenge being to avoid those and keep on the straight and narrow. That Hot Crater Act 2 and Ice Paradise Act 1 examples I just described are examples of that kind of design in practice (as is the spring in my music plant act 1 example you need to jump over to engage with what I was talking about); if you let it whisk you away as it tries to do, you'll be sent to a much worse route, where maintaining a consistent flow state is harder in the case of Hot Crater, because that route is purpose built to slow you down as punishment for passivity, and the Ice Paradise example is trying to trick you into thinking it's the ideal route, when in reality, it isn't.
Just as an example, look at how far Techno base Act 2 can just be bent over backwards in your favour by subverting given individual routes and purposefully avoiding springs and boost rings which would otherwise railroad you into less ideal positions, and using the air dash to circumvent what would otherwise be linear sequences of waiting for Sonic to pick up speed on grindrails after falling directly on top of one;
th-cam.com/video/PpeAV4DISgE/w-d-xo.html
I tend to look at Sonic levels and assess their quality by asking myself a simple question; "how much can I do to optimise a run through this?", and VERY much unlike Adventure 2, where a lot of the railroading it does is simply unavoidable, and where, you're right; a lot of it's platforming hardly does count as platforming, Advance 2 couldn't be farther from that. Advance 2 has some of the greatest potential for optimisation out of any Sonic game. The disparity between the length of a first run of a given level and an optimised run can be absolutely nuts at times.
Hell, the only level I'm not so much of a fan of in Advance 2 is Hot Crater Act 1, specifically because of how relatively little room there is for optimisation. With those rails Sonic hangs onto right at the start and the route that leads you to, there's no reason to bother exploring the other paths because that one; the one you're on by default, is by far the most efficient. There's very little skill involved with optimising Hot Crater Act 1 compared to pretty much every other level in the game.
Wow. This is very interesting. And I see what you mean. The tendency to assume the top is the fastest is making me fall for traps that I'm not even seeing. Normally, why wouldn't I jump off a ramp that's going to launch me up to a rail? That's obviously the thing to do because it's at the top. But getting to the top involved just holding right. It was a punishment. That's probably why they removed collision on the sides of springs. So you can carelessly run into them and get launched up, which now can house slow paths. This kind of design does crop up occasionally in other Sonic games, but it is rare. Most of the time the top is the way to go. The use of gravity to knock you down creates for an obvious tiering system that is clean, structured, and easy to understand. But the idea of springs and such launching you up being the same thing, just in the opposite direction, totally went over my head. Now that you point it out though, it makes so much sense. It's more like there is an optimal route, and surrounding it both above and below are a bunch of elongated detours that only exist to waste time. And you have to figure out where these detours are and avoid them.
It is exactly as I said in the video. My experience with every other Sonic game was messing me up here. This game is designed very differently, and I was totally blind to it. What's weird is that it's not just prior Sonic games, but future ones too. Advance 3 immediately goes back to the usual design. And so do the Rush games and all the boost games too. This game is an anomaly, much like CD, which also has level design that doesn't really work when played in the typical fashion. But that game was going for something so different that it was easy to identify. The similar but different levels of this game make it harder to realize there even is a difference. Unlike what I said in the video, this game is in fact altering how Sonic level design works to mix things up.
I don't know how I feel about this. On paper, I do like the sound of it. It allows for the level design to be much more varied and free form with routing. It also means more experimenting to figure out what the optimal routes are, rather than just ignoring everything below the top path. But I also really like the tiered levels. They work really well as automatic game balancing depending on player skill, and are much more easy to pick up on. Which I think is important considering how few people even understand how Sonic levels are supposed to work in the first place. It may be predictable, but that doesn't bother me. I still always found it really fun. And I still think the lack of platforming here is a downgrade. But now understanding how its built, I wonder if you even could incorporate more elaborate platforming where it wouldn't just be skipped by taking a different route? But I am definitely intrigued to give this game another look with this new understanding. Probably won't be right now. But I might have to do a follow up video for this game at some point.
Thanks so much for this amazing comment. You did for me what my videos have been doing for so many of my viewers. Teach me the in-depth elements of a Sonic game. With my level of Sonic knowledge, that is not something many people can do. Bravo.
IM RIGHT THERE WITH YA!!!!
@@Pariah6950 man, it's kind of embarrassing to get a reply that's so positive.
tbh I was as surprised as you probably were reading that going into Advance 2. Having picked up on the handful of outliers in other games, I was sort of hoping that there was a Sonic game out there that elaborated on that structural idea, so I was primed to notice this, unlike most, I assume (don't want to sound like I'm tooting my own horn or anything). But having just played and routed Rush right before diving into Advance 2, which, as you say, is structured just like Sonic 2 (though with Deadline act 1 as an outlier of its own), I never expected I'd find what I was looking for in Advance 2, and so started out also playing it like Sonic 2 myself.
It was that example in Leaf Forest Act 1 I cited with the rail that had it click for me. I'd started routing that level first, but after a few dozen or so runs of assuming the top was in fact ideal, it began nagging at me that there seemed to be no way to maintain my speed going through that rail. Which is when, instead of jumping over the loop leading to the rail in the first place, I tried going down there to see what would happen, and I noticed I was getting to the end of that stretch of the level way faster by going this way than by going up top where the rail was, which lead me down the rabbit hole of spending the entire rest of that afternoon experimenting with other traversal options throughout the act, and currently my PB for Leaf Forest act 1 sits at pretty satisfying 00:44:22.
The only zone I haven't routed yet in Advance 2 is Egg Utopia, so for all I know, that one could be a stinker and sour what's otherwise one of the most consistent sets of levels I've ever seen in a Sonic game. But yeah, I'm pretty happy with it. Glad I could do a good job at explaining it.
Maybe I should try making my own video about it...take a shot at salvaging its dicey reputation, even a little.
Thanks for the kind words, and you're welcome. Love your videos. That feeling you described of having your perspective reshaped on Advance 2 is something your videos have done for me MANY times. So keep it up.
@@Pariah6950 Oh and one more thing, specifically regarding how Advance 2 seems to be a bit of an anomaly in terms of how different it is in going about utilising the idea of multiple paths;
one thing that's super interesting to think about is that Sonic 1, of all things, has some elements of this kind of design throughout a fair few of its levels. Green Hill Act 1 can be beaten way quicker when you jump immediately after coming out of those tubes after the loop to avoid being tossed into the air. Sticking to the floor there is actually a more direct route to the end than where you get shot to. You can save several seconds in act 2 by jumping to the left at the start to go under the start of the stage where the speed shoes monitor is, and blitz through the rest of it, and act 3's opening stretch can be gotten through quicker at the bottom, with you then switching up to the top before the breakable wall via the spring, where there's, again, a speed shoes monitor waiting for you to find.
Spring Yard Act 1 mostly prioritises the top, but it also requires you to veer off to the left to grab a speed shoes monitor right at the start (going against your typical instincts to constantly push forward) to make the most out of the level and skip the moving blocks segment in that act. Act 2 also benefits from remaining at the bottom instead of taking the spring up top half way through. Though in that case, I'm not so receptive to it since sticking to the bottom is much easier than going up top in this instance.
Star Light act 1 can be ran through a fair bit quicker by jumping down to the middle once you get to the segment with those three sets of rotating platforms.
Scrap Brain Act 1 also has a segment right at the end where, if you stay on the top route, you'll be forced through a segment of waiting for those horizontal pillars to move out of the way, so the challenge there becomes about figuring out where throughout the level is the best place to jump down to the middle, since you can skip that segment entirely by going through the middle of the last third of the act.
Surprisingly, a majority of Sonic 1's better levels do actually incorporate combining segments of different routes into ideal runs, Advance 2 just seems to take that concept and runs with it, involving a lot more interaction than the one or two times, at most, Sonic 1 will ask you to.
But the most interesting thing about this comparison is that, a lot of Sonic 1's pathway interaction involves the speed shoes in some form. Sonic Advance 2's Boost Mode functions very much like the speed shoes, except instead of being a pick-up, it's an organic part of Sonic's moveset, and it accomplishes the same thing speed shoes monitors did with how Sonic 1 used them, but incorporates more of a puzzle solving element into it; instead of simply figuring out where the speed shoes monitor is and routing around its location, the player needs to figure out how to navigate the level layout as to activate boost mode. It serves the same purpose, but puts more control into the players hands of how they go about it.
So it makes me wonder if Advance 2 looked to Sonic 1, more so than 2 or 3K for inspiration. This does seem to go against what Dimps were known for, what with both of their previous games having pulled more from 2, but there are a surprising number of things in Advance 2 that hearken back to things Sonic 1 and Sonic 1 alone seemed to do. Y'know, aside from half of Sonic 1 actively being designed to disengage with the game's mechanics, because Naka and Yasuhara seemed to think that was a great idea at the time.
@@Harrinsain This was actually my first sonic game, and I still love it to this day, I assume that it helped me and other people that started with this game to learn the level design more without any real preexisting ideas of how Sonic levels generally work.
Advance 2 was one of my favorites as a kid but I can promise you I NEVER saw a special stage playing this game.
th-cam.com/video/eatIzqwB2dA/w-d-xo.html
Christ died for your sins and rose on the third day, showing that anyone who trusts in him for salvation, will have everlasting life.
(John 11:25-26) "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"
(John 3:16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Not surprising considering how awful it is to even enter one.
Same here but with Advance 3. I do remember seeing it but I don't know how it was even accessed, I thought you had only 1 chance
I just realized that the acronym for "Sonic Was Always Good" would be SWAG
It's a shame that they'd remove a series staple like coins for Pepsi cans in this game.
i know, then they removed purple star coins for mcguffins.
That's so crazy! I never knew Knuckles was piloting the boss. As a kid, I always thought he was punching the glass to try to break out.
SAME
That would've been a much better explanation than what the game actually says
If they put this game on a bigger screen and zoomed out the view, lessened the amount of special rings, and tied the Chaos Emeralds to your save file rather than the character, I feel like it would be a *lot* better. The level design would be much more tolerable if you could actually see what was coming ahead
Coming from someone who finished this game dozens of times, knowing what's coming makes most of the levels super fun to play since you get the flow of things. A remaster with zoomed out camera would do wonders for this game
Kid-me would sing your praises. Looking at this, it looks fun, but painfully SMUSHED. Meh
So if you change the entire game, it'd be better
@@Ismazing like the video said, the best solution is a remake. But these changes the guy suggested go a long way on fixing many of the problems with the game.
Yeah the sonic advance games need a remaster perhaps a sonic origins 2.
It's funny how you start out so positive and excited talking about how fun the game is, but then at a certain point you just take a nosedive and it just gets worse and more critical, because that's how it feels to *play the game*
Also I will now forever describe Advance 2's stage design as "if yoko ono's 'music' was turned into a Sonic game" because of that comparison you made to Sonic design flow and music theory
That’d be the worst sonic game ever created
This game was my childhood when i was growing up as a kid, took it all over america and even to canada one time. During the trip to canada before we got in the car i think i hit a weird spot in my cartridge cause for some reason the game was 100% completed. I was able to play the secret final zone and everything, but once i restarted the game, it went back to my normal save. I don’t know how it happened and i’ve tried replicating it ever since.
I had that once, and a friend said it happened to them in Advance 1. Was apparently a common thing with these games
Happened to me in Advance 3.
a weird thing like that happened for me on the old original game boy's 2nd game and watch game. Was 100% for the entire night then just reverted back the next day. Was really weird.
It's a shame you never said much about the art design and actual music in this game. One thing I really liked about the Advance series is that the later Eggman base zones get a lot more computer and 90s cyber/techno-themed which I think adds a fun difference between the more modern Eggman and the classic Eggman bases, which were more industrial, factory, and flying fortress themed. Also, the Music Plant and SA3's Toy Kingdom do a great job establishing the more childlike and exuberant parts of his character, which I think often gets looked over when the series so often goes back to the staple level themes of factories, military bases, and casinos (which may be fun but I wouldn't really say are childish).
Also, I love the sound design in the Music Plant and how all the environmental sound effects, including the springs, are set to be like the instruments they look like and how they work with the main level music itself. It's really creative stuff and I don't know if any later Sonic game has matched that level of execution of its theming.
Love the series, been watching for a while now, keep it up!
I've left a critical comment on a few of these videos so far. So, I shall instead leave my more positive thoughts this time around.
I've really enjoyed this series. You really seem to understand Sonic in a way that most other just don't. Despite loving Sonic and analyzing its game design for my entire life, you've managed to consistently bring that rare moment where I can see and appreciate these games more from new perspectives I have never thought of. You've helped me take feelings I've never quite been able to express and fully put them into words.
I thank you sincerely for making such consistently quality and thought-provoking content. With the context of the rest of the series, I am super excited to see what you have to say about Advance 3.
Grew up with Advance Trilogy and nothing else. You are correct, I never once got to a special stage. Even exploring the first level and climbing around as Knuckles, I just never found that 7th star ring I needed, probably due to lack of experience. Luckily, I did get to fight the true final boss (for which you normally need to collect all emeralds as Sonic, though I might remember wrong from 19 years ago). When the game loads your save file, it checks for whether you haven't done things rather than whether you have, so if the game fails to load your save, everything will just be unlocked as if you had it 100% completed. Dropping the cartridge in water or not playing for a year were some rumoured causes for this to happen. Either way, It happened to me so I got to experience that true final boss with that killer music. I find it interesting how the tracks for the cutscene before the boss are much longer than what you hear in-game, so certain parts of them are just never heard in the game (save for the sound test I think was in there). Great retrospective, looking forward to Advance 3.
This is not an retrospectiv
i really like the fact that amy has peel out animation cause it debut in sonic cd along side amy!
I would love it if they added the Advance 2 boost mode as a separate character in future 2D games. Like give it to Shadow or Metal Sonic in a Mania 2 and they specifically have access to all the mechanical changes that come from it.
Also you forgot to mention that item boxes also have the same change as springs in this game. You just run into them now and they instantly pop open.
On the level design, The issue is that the pacing is almost exclusively designed around the boost and trick systems. The fact the it's a state you have to activate means a lot the things you pointed out as flaws are practically necessary. You need lots of set pieces and straight ways to give players multiple chances to start a boost, you need ramps that leave you at an odd height or facing the wrong way to make the vertical and backwards tricks useful. A lot of sections don't work well, or at all if you try to play them like a normal sonic game. And it doesn't really work as a traditional platformer either. Because of this I've never liked this game either, but to be honest I'm hesitant to say it's outright bad. I feel like this, and a lot of the Dark age games could have become great with iteration. Sega and Sonic Team tried a lot of interesting things, but they never refined them and worked out the kinks. I think with a wider resolution and reworking the trick system and level designs on a character by character basis it would be much better.
Very true. Pariah praises the boost system, but this game's issues are in part an outgrowth of it.
25:45 cheesing the bosses, is that a coincidence, a pun or delibirate
Amazing video as always! Your interpretation of Knuckles in this game is really interesting because it’s the opposite of how I interpreted it as a kid (and though your footage doesn’t contradict my reading, maybe other elements of the game do, because I haven’t played it in a while).
Anyway, I had always assumed Knuckles was kidnapped just like Tails and Cream. His sprite looks like he’s trying to punch his way out of a cage, not pilot a cockpit. And when Sonic accused Knuckles of being duped, I assumed that meant “tricked into being kidnapped” not “tricked into doing his bidding.” I think Knuckles embarrassment applies in both readings, and I think I’d expect a character like Knuckles to be angry while kidnapped rather than fearful like Tails and Cream. And then the explosion also makes sense in that context-Knuckles responds the way he does because Sonic, in saving him, also made him look foolish with the soot on his face, so I read Knuckles’ dialogue as being conflicted between his gratefulness and his embarrassment.
Something that helps quite a bit with the game's flow: you can press jump at the end of ramps or grind rails (that don't lead to ground) to get a much stronger jump, ramps giving you a speed boost usually and grind rails giving massive jumps consistently.
I didn't figure that out until time attacking Sky Canyon. They really should have indicated that was a thing in some way.
@@Pariah6950 but 2d sonic games should never have tutorials
@@sandudelcea6707 Says who?
@@Pariah6950 well idk, omochao is too annoying and the game already needs to have green hill so there's no need for a tutorial
@@sandudelcea6707 Back when video games were super simple, Green Hill sufficed. But now that games are more complex than ever, sometimes parts of your kit aren't immediately apparent. Tutorials aren't bad, it's just a matter of how easy they are to skip, or how braindead they are. This would not be a braindead tutorial moment, to put a "Jump!" sign on a ramp or on a rail.
Knuckles being tricked is a series gag. I don't really see the issue beyond the optics of not liking how it makes Knux look. 3&K, Triple Trouble, SA1, here, and then later in stuff like Colors DS where Rouge is actually the one to trick him-I think the way X handles his post-3&K trickery is pretty solid: Knuckles knows Eggman is bad, but Eggman through a good performance and tugging on Knuckles' heroism as well as pre-existing grudge towards Sonic is able to fool him. I think because of how in-depth that was handled is what makes me forgive it. All Eggman has to say is that the Chaos Emeralds are at risk or that "he's the only one strong enough to stop Sonic" and it's pretty understandable on Knuckles' part that he gets tricked. Knux getting tricked is up there with "Long time no see" for me, and I think him not doing his job in stuff like the Riders games is more egregious.
Honestly Knuckles getting tricked so often was one of my least favorite aspects of X. You’d think he’d learn after so long that Eggman can’t be trusted
i'm dead, this video series went from calling rings "coins" and now at this point they're pepsi cans of all things. incredible
I can only describe the level design as "unkind". In previous games traps all felt like a fair punishment for being absent minded, whereas advance 2 felt like it was just straight up bullying my ass
@13:02
“Heheh, you’re too sl0w!
You’re too
You’re too
You’re too-“
Just beat this game for the first time and I agree with basically everything here but there's a couple things I noticed in my playthrough.
Why did they remove roll lock cancelling as Sonic? In Advance 1 you could press the jump button in the air to remove roll lock (i.e. move in the air in ball form which you normally can't do specifically when jumping from the ground in ball form) but here you can't do that which is extremely annoying. At least the air dash can help a little but it doesn't fix the issue.
On the flip side, I think needing to grab all 7 SP Rings - at least, the process of getting them - is actually pretty fun. Of course, I looked up a guide to find where they all are and I totally agree that actually finding them in the first place is terrible. BUT, once you know the route already it is kinda enjoyable to stick to a path without messing up. I had to do this a lot because I was really bad at the special stages.
Awesome video, and yeah Since I'm not as big on time attack, I am just not bothering with this game, nice video, and yeah Sonic and Pepsi man are by far the best duo
Yeah, boss fights in this game are really really frustrating
I hate trying to find the god damn special stages. But the special stages themselves are uh sooo good. Good vid
I absolutely adored this game growing up strictly because of the spectacle and INCREDIBLE music. Like most people, I never unlocked Super Sonic. Only game in the entire series I have never and will never do so in. What in the world were they thinking?
Took me longer than it needed to realise what you were talking about regarding Pepsi cans.
Mere seconds, but still mere seconds too many.
Really strange how every Sonic Advance game seems to differ a lot from each other on terms of how they're designed.
Kinda feels like after the first one they decided to just use this series as experiments for different ways to design a 2D Sonic game. A bit of a shame, since we could probably have had more classic styled Sonic games if the devs decided to stick with the Advance 1 formula.
15:22 Also, a bit of feedback here: The text was a good way to better represent how you were feeling when playing the game, but it was a bit hard to focus on what you were actually saying during this part. If you're gonna use more of it, I think you should use it sparingly and only if you feel it's necessary.
Thanks for the feedback. It was an experiment and I assumed it might be confusing. Will probably limit it to single short phrases on occasion. More like what I did at 7:00.
If Sonic level design is like music, then Sonic Advance 2 level design is like dubstep.
Huh, I didn't expect a mention of Sonic Megadrive or any Western creation outside of a Sally mention until Sonic Colors. Since you focused so much on the games and the Japanese original stories, a quick mention of an Archie book was geniunely surprising. And yes, Knuckles being naive is a flaw that was used constantly, to the point it harmed the character, and then eventually led to Sonic Boom straight up making him dumb for the sake of comedy. I'm kind of surprised they didn't use Knuckles other character flaw that is his temper, as Knuckles is very grumpy (and speaking of Boom, it wasn't even adapted, Boom Knuckles is straight up chill and I don't remember him being grumpy, Boom Sonic however was very grumpy)
I'm looking forward for the videos on Advanced 3 and Battle, but I wonder if you could do a character analysis of Cream the Rabbit in Advance 3. I remember Wikipedia citing a reviewer saying she is a ridiculous character and that led to curiosity from my part. You have spoken about characters before in depth, but I think you didn't go too deep with Cream back in the Heroes video. Do you think she is an ok addition to the character, or a filler character?
There's really not much to Cream. She was created to be the Team Rose flight character in Heroes. She's pretty much just Amy's Tails. She's cute, very much so in Sonic X, but not much more than that. I like her well enough. That's all I'll say for now. I'll talk about her more during Battle and Rush's story vids.
@@Pariah6950 lol 2001 they give knuckles a love interest, then 2002 they give tails a love interest.
@@Safalmao Considering the original Team Rose was Amy, Cream and Rouge, it would not surprise me if Cream was initially going to be that.
@@Pariah6950 so are you are doing story videos for these games ? That's good !
You saying that sonic levels are like songs just clicked something right on my head, I think that it is the single best statement about sonic levels, maybe it even works for others games
As a kid, I loved this game compared to the first Sonic Advance, and that's because this is one of the few sonic games where I feel I'm /actually/ going fast but still feel in control. From my experience, many Sonic games (particularly the 3d ones) have an issue with either being fast gameplay but poor control or good control, but it doesn't feel "fast" like a good Sonic game does. The tricks system is the absolute bread and butter of Sonic Advance 2, and the joy I had as a kid learning the levels and figuring out the flashiest routes and holding that speed boost made me feel epic, despite the sheer amount of set pieces and length stretches of just running. I'll agree that removing those lulls in player interactions with quality platforming segments would be, and as many have said, zooming the screen out to get a better view of your surroundings would make this game genuinely good.
Somebody romhack Sonic Advance to have the boost/ring system, and perhaps an altered version of the tricks, and that there would be platforming perfection.
You can actually move so fast that sonic leaves the screen and is running ahead of the camera for a few seconds lol
Man i looove this game
The boost mode from this game reminded me of the match system in pizza tower, itd be interesting to see a vídeo from you on that game
It is my least favourite sonic advance game like you because of the level design but hearing all these little details about how rings help with the boost mode, the tricks as well, it makes me reconsider my view on it
I can't wait to play it again
Move over Chaos, Cheese is the REAL god of destruction!
ngl true
Chaos the god of destruction or the ones you see in my garden?
Always knew Pepsi was based. Makes me run fast
Pepsi Cans. He's becoming unhinged.
Based on how you described the Sonic Advance 2 I can say that at best the experiment has gone wrong and at worst the team has dropped the ball. And I was kinda expecting negative comments about Sonic Advance 2 from you. But I am pretty sure that Sonic Advance 3 will redeem itself.
Edit: After reading a very long comment, I don't think I can agree with my own comment here. I guess you could say Sonic Advance 2 is a misunderstood good game. Overall the Sonic Advance trilogy is a solid experience.
Pepsi cans? ... Uh, never mind, I'm not going to bother thinking about it.
Glad everyone agrees the way to get into special stages in this games is absolute garbage. I have never talked to anyone who has liked them and it's one the most unfun things Ive done in a Sonic game.
The Chaos Emeralds are the major problem with the game. Getting access to a Special Stage is the worst in the series with having to get all 7 SP Rings in an act, which brings the game to a halt and isn't designed for exploration. Everyone has their own set of Chaos Emeralds, but you need to get all seven as Sonic to fight the true final boss, who is the hardest to get the SP Rings with. The Special Stages themselves are pathetically easy too because they knew how much of a pain getting into one was.
I just discovered that you could do a high jump at the end of a rail grinding, it’s so cool, now the game flows better to me
I don't know why I thought this video said Sonic adventure 2. You already did that.
Crazy.. before Sonic 1-3 or the Wii games… this was the first Sonic I’d ever play. I was probably 6 years old, playing this only because a friend let me borrow their Gameboy. 😌
(Bring. Me. Back.))
I didn't even know before that rings pepsi cans make you boost quicker in this game. that's really cool, and fits the Sonic gameplay a lot. It makes me appreciate the boost mode mechanic in this game a lot more now.
Nice video. This game’s pretty good but tbh 1 is kinda better in almost every way. But the music is so good especially Egg Utopia
Great videos, been watching this series since the sonic 2 episode. Just subbed
Hoping you'd make a video about ultimate sonic flash, that'd be something quite interesting to watch
have you considered the idea of making "supercut" versions of some of the videos in this series when it's close to complete? like, one video that consists of the classic series of games (1, 2, 3, CD, and chaotix) or ones for the adventures videos?
i find those kinds of long edits of prior videos are really good to watch for background audio while im doing something else and other channels that I see do similar things with collections of their videos seem to get treated well by youtube's algorithm
I wasn't planning to. Seems kinda pointless when you could just watch the playlist.
I would love to have your opinion on how they used the lore and the characters on the new movies. I really like the movies and I think they went for something different than the main lore that already exists but I would love to hear what you think about it!
I haven't seen the second one. But I didn't care for how the first one was done. It's mostly superficial similarities to the games to get people interested in an otherwise generic and mediocre movie. Sonic as a character is nothing like game Sonic, and I hate his speed being a power and how blatantly they ripped off X-men's Quicksilver.
I had no idea you could do all this shit in advance 2. Great vid!
Honestly if it wasn't for the bottomless pits and the way you get the emeralds and unlock everything, this might've been my favorite Advance game. Casually, I can enjoy Advance 2, but trying to get everything...yeah, not happening. The only reason I've ever gotten to play as Amy, Super Sonic, played the Chao garden and got the sound test is because I used an Action Replay for the game. Even with save states in emulators, I still refuse to try and collect all the emeralds the way they wanted me to. The special stages are fun, but it's not worth the work you have to put in. So casually, Advance 2 is good. For a completionist run, it's bad.
pariah what the hell are you talking about, those aren’t pepsi cans. they’re bagel bites!
That bit about the functionality of Pepsi and how the Boost Mode is something I feel not enough people truly give spotlight to. Historically the series has struggled to marry the Pepsi system direvtly into thr core gameplay but this game cracked the code on it. Glad you brought it up!
Im gonna hard disagree about thr bosses. To me, these bosses are among some of the best by virtue of actually using the core mechanics of the game. You have to build up and control your speed and momentum and jumps in tandem with the terrain in order to fight them. I chalk up distate for them with most people just being that most people deep down dont even like bosses in Sonic to begin with.
I kind of admire the Chaos Emerald system on paper. The idea of charting out a path in the level to do in a run makes sense conceptually. But good lord is it horrendous in practice. Really though, the fact you gotta get em all with every character is the part that makes it way over the line rather than just nuts.
Im generally of the same mind when it comes to the criticisms of Adv 2s level design. Not specifically the critiques in of themselves, but the general idea that they lack balance limit what can be done design wise as a result.
Everyone's favorite iconic sonic thing
Pepsi cans
My favorite
Hey pariah. Great video, I've been anxiously awaiting this one. I got a couple things for our ongoing discussion. I actually like the slow acceleration in this game because of the overall design philosophy and how it all works in tandem to achieve the end result. That boost mode is such a fantastic reward for skilled play, that the slow acceleration is an organic and appropriate punishment for losing your momentum. Also the beginning of each level provides you with the opportunity to start at top speed (0 Pepsi can top speed) with the racing game mechanic to press right at the perfect time with the countdown and not start from a standstill.
I agree on principal about the acceleration. It's just say they went a bit overboard with how slow it is.
The beginning boost also makes sense to start you off without the slow build. But you could just start the levels running like Rush does to get that. I don't think earning it with good timing is worth the problem it introduces.
@@Pariah6950 I disagree. Starting off running would prevent the slow buildup for free without requiring any timing, skill or input at all. The intro boost like a racing game is easy enough to time with practice, but requires an input at the very least lol
I think raising the base slow speed a bit would be a better solution than increasing the acceleration
This video was pretty good but there was one problem with it
Those are clearly Diet Pepsi cans
Idk if this is even worth saying, but there's this one offhand comment you made that was pretty insignificant in the scope of the game and this video but really stuck out to me for some reason. You seemed confused why the devs would lock Amy behind a goal as ludicrous as collecting all 7 emeralds with each character. It seems like something stupidly difficult that's not even worth attempting. Well here's how I see it:
In this day and age completion, especially done as quickly and methodically as possible, is a much more well-realized thing in most video games. Because of that, people get really bent out of shape over games locking content behind really grindy challenges, which is why things like Super Mario Oddysey's massive post-game power moon count (weird example, I know) are frowned upon, as grinding out the game for nearly 1000 power moons would burn out any player and ruin the experience. What many players fail to see and the way I see it is that things like this are simply there to spice up repeat playthroughs, giving players an excuse to revisit the game and having those revisits actually feel like they mean something because you are actually progressing towards something new. It's not meant to be completed in a single day or week or even month, but rather a gradual build-up post-playthrough that yields unexpected rewards.
Amy in Advance 2 is a reward for those kids who stuck through this game for years, and one random day collect that final emerald for seemingly no benefit , only to be greeted with an entirely new character to play with. Even if she doesn't drastically affect how the game plays, it's a truly incredible feeling, like the game is rewarding you for going above and beyond and sticking with it through all its challenges. It's not something to actively shoot for, but instead a fun bonus at the end of a long journey. Sonic has always catered to more arcade-like design sensibilities, encouraging replayability, and rewarding the player for mastering levels in their entirety. This is one of the ways Advance 2 does it, and while convoluted and arduous, it has it's own appeal that is shared by many video games of its era, and is lost in today's gaming landscape, filled with competionists, speedrunners, and anti-grinding sentiment.
Idk if you'll even read this comment lol, I just wanted to get this random gripe about how some older games are perceived off my chest and see what you thought of it. Great vid as always, looking forward to the next one.
I can understand what you're saying. But in this case, I'd argue what you get is not worth the amount of work you have to put in to get it. And the process is just doing the same thing you've already done 3 more times. Not much of an achievement. Using Mario Odyssey as an example, I think getting 999 moons sucks not because of how many there are or how long it takes, but that the process is not enjoyable. Getting the standard 880 moons is fun to me because you're just playing the game. But the rest are just coin grinding. You're getting rewarded for arbitrarily wasting your time, rather than accomplishing a time consuming challenge. A good example to me would be something like N++, which has way too many levels for anyone to beat in a reasonable time. That is a game you chip away at over years, but not in a way that makes it feel pointless or arbitrary.
......Pepsi cans? ....they looks NOTHING like Pepsi cans!!
So that's what the special stages look like
Cream and Vanilla are such a sweet addition to tge cast
HA sweet
@@themissingbits6375 i swear that pun was unintended
@@joshhacker8503 lol
Literally every time I see someone talk about this game thy bring up how amazing Boost Mode is. What I wouldn't give to see the timeline where this became part of Sonic's Adventure gameplay style and was the main focus over the vastly inferior Boost mechanic.
I have a huge guilty pleasure with Advance 2 (probably because I beaten this game like 4 times).
It has some good features like tricks and the boost function but holy crap the level design, special stage requirements, and ESPECIALLY the boss fights (The Aero Egg to be exact from Ice Paradise) are horribly trash.
But for some reason playing this game is kind of fun since blazing through stages is pretty satisfying sometimes and it just feels nice to use tricks and such.
Also the OST is great so I thought I should also point that out lol.
It's clear that sonic is very addicted to Pepsi
When you were saying in the Advance 1 video that you considered the problems with the series blown out and that everything was fine and gravy my only thought was "oh man I can't wait for the advance 2 video" and yep checks out I'm sorry for your loss
I actually 100%'d the game back then and it basically required me to learn the levels by heart to plan special stages routes, where you could still fuck up because of the high-speed execution and required split-second thoughts the game forces on you through its level design. (special PTSD from Ice Paradise)
I keep wanting to draw parallels to the boost games for that kind of speed-all-the-time gameplay but at least advance 2 had tight controls ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
do you plan on making another video, re evaluating this game when that widescreen decomp comes out
Wait so Sky Canyon takes place on Angel Island??
I agree on the level design. I always would get too frustrated with the passive trap screw the player obstacles. I really like the zones in advance because they breathe a little.
So, Pepsi gives you the runs?
I will say this. Sonic Advance 2 is probably my favorite 2D Sonic game. The speed, the level design, and multiple characters to play as (remember when we could do that?). BUT! Yes, those special stages were the worst shit ever. I only ever got the first emerald as Knuckles.
Sonic in particular was the most screwed when it came to finding those rings, but too bad. Want Super Sonic? Screw you! And having to get all emeralds with ALL characters is true cruelty, all just to unlock Amy.
As a kid, I NEVER would've done that, not for Amy. Now if it was Shadow? Yeah...yeah I would've done it. I can see it now, printing off maps of all the stages, practicing for hours. It would've been Hell. So, I'm glad it was just Amy lol.
I didn't even knew Sonic Advance 2 had special stages back then
Why do you call coins Pepsi now
What are the Pepsi cans?!?!
Rings, maybe in reference to the pepsi man game where you collect pepsi cans like coins or rings.
My favorite collectable, pepsis
If you see this brother, if for some oddball wackjob reason you ever cover Sonic Shuffle man. Hit me up before you start playing and writing please LMAO. You'll learn way more from me than anywhere else.
That being said
This video plus the comment / conversation with Harrinsain were sick and it the frustrations you vented were amusing! I love these videos and I'm still glad I found you. The pocket adventure video was sick and I'm getting read to watch Advance 1 and then set aside more time to watch your stuff. Keep up the good work my man.
god i love this channel
So I'm back again, this time I've played Advance 1 and 2 for the first time after watching your reviews and I definitely liked Advance 2 more, actually I enjoyed it more than all of the Genesis games, it's the 2D Sonic game that I most enjoyed by far (from 2D titles I have only played Sonic 1, 2, 3&K and Advance 1 btw)
There is definitely something engaging in it's gameplay, especially after listening to your explanations about passive trap, I did find myself being able to predict a lot of moments in Advance 2 and the constant sense of speed and quick reaction time is really satisfying to pull off, and I never felt any lack of platforming.
You also said this regarding Adventure 2 and again, I don't really agree with the platforming aspect because platforming is not just literally floating things that you jump and try to avoid to fall, in my view platforming is maneuvering the character in the environment with it's actions to avoid/defeat obstacles, just the sole action of jumping towards an enemy is platforming because you have to maneuver your character precisely to defeat it, the same applies to avoid a spike or a pit, all of this is platforming, It's not just literally floating structures that you jump one to the other, and both SA2 and SA2 (lol) has good amount of platforming in my point of view. I just never even remotely felt the need to have this "mario-like" platforming in Sonic, because I think there are more interesting ways to mix this with the high-speed action. A perfect example is grinding, to do this action you have to land of the rail, which is basically the same thing as landing on a normal platform the reward is the rail advancing you through the level while still maintain the sense of speed that this game (and Adventure 2 also) wants to have, so it basically serves as platforming AND rewards the player with speed for successful landing it, Homing Attack in 3D (at least in SA2 and Heroes) I also see as some kind of platforming although much simpler, since you have to aim properly and press the button at the right time, the player will fall off if not accurate enough.
Another thing that I enjoyed a lot is the cheer mobility in the air with the extra moves that launches you to the side or upwards, the air dash is also incredibly fun to use with Sonic, S3&K also had an air dash with it's shield but I always felt it was too powerful and I barely used because it just makes Sonic dashes forward too fast, in Advance 2 is a lot more balanced and serves as another way to build speed.
Those extra moves helps in creating more challenges in it's level design, for example, when there is an entrance with a spike on the ground, normally you would have to first land on the ground and jump through the spike, but here you can do an air dash or a side dash after a spring (I forgot how the latter it's called).
I also liked the boss fights here because while they are pretty difficult, you can take your time to figure out the pattern because you're constantly running and in the path will always show up rings, so you'll only die if you aren't careful, in past games the boss fights were pretty much trial and error to death since it would always reach a point where you'll have no rings. Plus, Sonic's air dash helps a lot in getting closer to the boss! That being said, I agree that boss fights in Sonic games generally aren't as fun as the normal gameplay, even though Advance 2 did the best from the 2D games I played so far.
A lot of people really hate this game claiming how unfair the level design is, and while there were indeed some unfair moments (especially with bottomless pits), 80% of my playthrough was pretty enjoyable.
Also, Special Stages still suck, although at least the requirement is NOT collecting rings, taking damage really pissed me off in Sonic 1 and 2 because of that. Right now the only Special Stage I can enjoy playing is from Sonic Heroes' PC version.
pepsi cans? what the hell are you even talking about. how are rings pepsi cans?
You should check out the 16-Bit remake of Triple Trouble sometime.
SA2 feels the "fastest" of the 3. Level design accomodates this, as well as the spring changes.
Personally it is my favourite of the GBA games, because it has the feeling of going fast, and you can mostly.keep top speed up in nearly all stages
I'd have to say I agree with this video 100%. Sonic Advance 2 has always been my least favorite 2D Sonic game and you've pretty much summed up why. Unfun level design, frustrating bosses, and ridiculously high expectations for completion.
I'm a Pepsi man myself.
22:15 i can confirm, finished advance 2 a bunch of times on my gba sp and only seen one of them on the youtube when i was at high school with a 3ds instead of gba. I love this game, i really do. The boost system makes it my favorite to time attack and i lost count of how many times i've seen all of the cutscenes of this game. Some of the things i'd like to see the modern games tackle are from this game, the boost system and rings giving boost faster are genius ways to make the momentum stuff flow while managing the platform tropes. To me what kills the game is the developers thinking these new stuff would not fit the previous style of level design, which is exactly what created the whole "wasn't the game supposed to put a trap here" moments. If they continued with the old style leaning more towards sonic 2 type of level designe, i truly believe this game would become the best portable game, since the framework is genius.
why pepsi???
This is my ABSOLUTE FAVORITE SONIC GAME!!!!!!
GODDDDD
I LOVE THIS GAME SO MUCH
What is your definition of "Platforming"? I've been wondering this for a long time while watching your Sonic videos. Especially in this one, in the section where you play one of the levels while text is on-screen, you say that the one section where you bounce on fans was the only section of Platforming, but it looked like you were doing platforming before and after that. For example, the section where you have to choose between going into one boost ring that's right in front of you or the one that's above you, I'd say that's platforming. Or whenever you go on a ramp and don't quite have enough height, so you use a trick to jump up and land on it, I'd consider that a form of platforming. You're controlling a character to get onto a path. Or jumping onto that higher level where you were going too slow, so you fell down instead, that's like failing a platforming thing. And these examples are all before that place where you bounce on springs and try not to fall off.
So, like, I'm genuinely curious, what is platforming to you?
Manually controlling a character to navigate an environment that requires precision of control.
So picking between the hoop in front of me or above me is not platforming. No precision is needed. Just a direction and button. Same applies to homing attacks in the 3D games.
A big thing I would point to is Prince of Persia or Assassins Creed. You jump around and climb, but all with pre-canned actions that you don't manually steer where you want once the action is initiated. "Platforming" in those games constitutes holding a button and going forward. Platforming in Crash takes you making those jumps yourself. You can line it up, time your jump right, and still fail because you didn't actually steer yourself onto the platform. That is platforming to me.
@@Pariah6950 Ah, okay. That makes a lot of sense! Thank you for answering! 👍
Also, I found out most people consider this the best advance game.
i liked the text explaining your thoughts, but it was VERY confusing simultaneously reading the text and listening to the different stuff you were saying.
I thought it might be. Wanted to experiment and see if it would work. I assumed you might have to listen in one go, then go back and read in another.
@@Pariah6950 i like the idea, but the execution need some further thought
I-Is he using a soda as a placeholder for ***?
One of the problems that i have is that unlike knuckles and tails cream wasn't build with special abilities like them and she was just tails with a chao and because of that i thing that this is a missaportunity because htey could so much with he not just gameplay but story because she is amys tails and they don't do anything with that and to make it worse she was added the time were amy was between appsesve fangirl or kind girl and use her for jokes on that part also they are not good ballancing the kindness of the two
Calling rings Pepsi cans really threw me off...
I thought I was going crazy disliking this game. But you explain why very well.
Now I just wish it got a mobile remake like the classic games
People say Sonic Adventure 1 is divisive but most people agree that Sonic is good and the rest is mediocre to bad.
But Sonic Advance 2 is like... Totally inconscistent, people say they hate but then there are people who just loves and has tons of explanations to do, I haven't played that much in my brother's GBA back then because I just hated that the first model didn't had backlight, you think It's bad to play a high-speed game that is also too fast in a small screen, but imagine also barely seeing a dark screen with some ghosting effect and with a sunlight reflecting on the screen... Like... It was just IMPOSSIBLE for me to play Sonic Advance 2 lol
I respect the points that are your opinion but This wasnt your best video. Its one thing to say the game isnt for you or not like the classics, its another thing entirely to say its badly designed. The less said about how you just glossed over all the other playable characters also, the better.
except all the playable characters are just slower sonics
This game would be so good if the screen was larger and the bosses stayed still
YOU ARE MY FAVORITE
Great video! But why are you calling rings pepsi cans?
It's the gag about people constantly calling rings "coins" and it pissing off every sonic fan in the universe, and because Pariah is snarky as hell, since the 06' part 3 vid (iirc) he started calling them all kinds of weird stuff. Pepsi cans absolutely threw me the hell off this time around though lmao
@@igirjei3717 lol, that's great.
Sa2 is a awesome game!
which one?
@@jacobagbegna8619 SA2, duh
@@AlphaOblivion7 SA2 is better smh
sa2 fans when sa2 fans appear
lol it says sa2 on character select screen which makes it confusing, cause legit the year before this the made a game with the same acronym..