Commentaria de Pronuntiatu Meo / Pronunciation Comments • I give Diodorus two affectations in order to make his voice distinct, memorable, and, I hope, fun to listen to: I usurp Ian McKellen's Gandalf voice (Vōx Diodōrī in fōrmā prīmigeniā Gandalfī: th-cam.com/video/2FQWhPfhRwU/w-d-xo.html ), and I also try to give him a "Greek" accent. This "Greek" accent, as I imagine it, has the following characteristics: - All long ē and ō are compared to η and ω , which have an open quality in Classical and Koine Greek; with a fair amount of consistency, this is how Diodorus speaks. It is also compared to a Sardinian accent in Italian, where all "e" and "o" are open in quality. - Generally, Diodorus has a pitch accent rise on stressed syllables, in imitation of ancient Greek. Many of my Roman voices have melodic patterns more similar to modern Italians (or as best as I can realize). - My Diodorus tends to pronounce short Latin 'u' as Greek omicron 'o', most obviously in "Titus et Sextus" = Τιτος ετ Σεξτος. - He has trouble pronouncing nasal final -m, so this ends up being an -n; other accusative endings are also often rendered with an -n. - Occasionally he changes initial consonant 'i' into a short vowel, e.g. " jubeō " into " ĭubeō ", and 'v' into 'u' : "vērum" -> ουηρον. • For Marcus, due to events in a following chapter, almost never enunciates "h". • The name Diodōrus, having an omega ω, I render as an open quality long 'o' in my Latin.
Id audiēns delectātus sum. Beatum est opīnārī antīquōs Graecōs utentēs suam dēclīnātiōnem secundum in linguā latinā articulantēsque litterās E et O longās sicut Η et Ω!
Was going to say this was my favorite chapter yet- because of how for some reason I found it hilariously funny- and then this knocked it out of the park for me. I noticed the Greek inflections and loved the old man voice!
Gratias tibi, Luci! As always, great reading. Also, I was delighted at the malum-malum pun of Diodorus. I must say the first time I encountered malum with a long a, I thought Lucius was giving his sons something evil :))
@@ScorpioMartianus I just started this chapter today and really got a kick when I heard the magister's voice. As for the accent, for a few minutes I thought I was hearing things, but eventually I figured out that you were putting on a 'Greek' accent. Absolutely love it and makes learning the chapter even more fun! :)
Splendide recitas, ScorpioMartiane! Sed - Uuu... hunc magistrum Diodorum in schola habere nolo! Pueros illum metere intellego - vox illius terrifica est, hahæ. Mihi viderit narcissista esse! Gratia Dei ego sum puella, itaque Romæ scholam ire mihi necesse non erat. Primum in illum grata sum ; ) "Vivat academia, vivant professores / Vivat membrum quodlibet / Vivant membra quælibet, /Semper sint in flore!"
5:31 I've got a question about "necesse est". In a previous chapter this expression went with an Accusativus cum Infinitivo, for example "Necesse est puerum dormīre." i.e. "It is necessary that the boy sleeps." with the word in the accusative becoming the subject. Applying this pattern to "Necesse est te punire" would yield "It is necessary that you punish". But surely what is meant here is "it is necessary to punish you". Is there any rule i'm missing or how can I differentiate if the accusative after "necesse est" is the subject or the object? Thanks in advance!
@@ScorpioMartianus if I wanted to clarify that I'm the one doing the punishing would i use the dative "necesse est mihi te punire" or two accusatives "necesse est me te punire" or is both fine?
Luke: Congratulations (and thanks) on the variety of voices. The subtleties of Diodorus’ name and accents went over my head, I’m afraid; I’m still trying to mimic your nasalisation of vowels and elisions of the final ‘m’. Several high-school years of ecclesiastical Latin (all forgotten) and ancient memories of the old Roman liturgy and hymns keep getting in the way. But I’m grateful for your efforts; they add a great deal to the Orberg book and all to the same purpose. Very valuable. May I ask, does it become clear when to use “cur” and when to use “quid” (or even “quare”; and “quia” vs “quod” for that matter)? In this chapter the Magister seems to use the two interchangeably. But maybe there’s a difference I’m not getting yet. My dictionary (Cassell’s) is no help: it quotes Cicero: “Quid est cur?”. But doesn’t answer the question!
Thanks for the video! Very helpful. I wonder how we should translate the word "item" in line 96? According to Wiktionary, it would be "just like"? So, in this case "Just like, the teacher opens his book" (it makes sense, but maybe sounds a bit odd).
When compared to chapters 12 and 13, chapters 14 and 15 - at the very least for me - were significantly easier. Chapter 16 is proving to be a very rough chapter.
Perpulchre recitavisti! De aphaeresi tamen a viris doctis et a ab ipsis codicibus cum aliis tum Plautinis dissentire videris ;-) Mea sententia in "Sed ubi est" e littera tota elidenda est (aliter atque in synaloephis scilicet). cetera, inquam, perplacent. incisionem tuam mox ipse discipulis meis proponam! :-)
Gratias tibi! :D Quod ad varias formas elisiones attinet, formas vivas quae in Italica, Hispanica, et in aliis linguis neolatinis inveniri possunt adhibeo, ut satis varietas credibilis inponam; alias audies me "ubist" alias "ubest" alias "ubjest" enuntiare. Plerumque censeo necesse esse junctionem vocalium (i.e. in unam syllabam) fideliter dicere, sic ut Italice, Hispanice, Daciromanice, et ceteris linguis multis. At dicendum est omnia a Diodoro pronuntiata sunt cum "accentu" ficto "Graeco" quo usus sum. :D Neque sequendus est mos!
@@ScorpioMartianus Il pensum recita “Quis discipulus primus ad ludum advenit?” ovvero “quale primo discepolo arriva a scuola?” Ma “quale” in questo caso è aggettivo di discepolo, quindi la domanda sarebbe dovuto essere “Qui discipulus primus ad ludum advenit?” Perché “quis, quid” dovrebbe essere usato solo come pronome, quindi bisogna usare il pronome/aggettivo “qui, quae, quod”. Sbaglio?
Ho scoperto cosa non andava Luke! La traduzione corretta in italiano è: chi, (in quanto/come) discepolo primo, va verso la scuola? Ovvero ‘quis’ appunto vuol dire ‘chi’, e ‘discepolo primo’ è apposizione del soggetto (‘primo’ è aggettivo dell’apposizione ‘discepolo’) e quindi va in nominativo! Spero di aver capito bene.. cerco spesso di capire il lato grammaticale di questo libro perché sto facendo latino all’università ma con il metodo tradizionale, cioè attraverso la grammatica.. Familia romana lo sto usando per consolidare e approfondire alcune cose, cercando di immergermi il giusto ma anche di capire le regole grammaticali che ci sono dietro, perché poi all’università ci viene richiesta l’analisi grammaticale… Comunque questo libro lo trovo assolutamente geniale!!!
I think it's the same in English where, the verb follows the nearer of the two nouns, and so is often singular. When using both and, it's plural. Compare: Neither Sextus nor Titus does it. Both Sextus and Titus do it.
Simple question: on lines 6-7, what exactly does “eo modo” (with the accents over the o’s) mean? Is it, “his method/mode” or is it “he is only”? Can somebody please translate the entire sentence? Thank you!!!
Laus pro tua Diodori recitatio! Meusne est sensus an "-os", ut antiqua in Latina lingua, a Diodoro pronunciatur "-us" exitus? «Titus tibi malum dare non potest, at ego tibi malum dare possum» mea in mente «Malum dabunt Metelli Nævio pœtæ» revocat.
Hahahae, Diodorus meus "-os" pro "-us" saepe dicit tantummodo quod "Graecus" est - censeo Graecum magistrum multo melius Latine pronuntiare potuisse quam ego pro sua voce feci. Solum ut alliciat animos sic jocans pronuntiavi, nec consistenter, hahae.
Diodōrus accentum prīscum Latīnum et Graecum habet. Nón sölum dīcit -os prō -us, sed etiam semper ē et ō apertīs ūtitur. Expectō Lūcium et Īrēnam novam pelliculam huius capitulī in quō höc accentū ūtitur.
Optīma lectiō, nunc nova verba didicī: lūdus, sevērus, pūnīre, cōnsīdere, jānua, vōs/nōs. Suntne exempla lūdī verbōrum pertinentēs ad longitudinem vōcālium in litterīs antīquīs? Sīcut mālum/malum.
Commentaria de Pronuntiatu Meo / Pronunciation Comments
• I give Diodorus two affectations in order to make his voice distinct, memorable, and, I hope, fun to listen to: I usurp Ian McKellen's Gandalf voice (Vōx Diodōrī in fōrmā prīmigeniā Gandalfī: th-cam.com/video/2FQWhPfhRwU/w-d-xo.html ), and I also try to give him a "Greek" accent. This "Greek" accent, as I imagine it, has the following characteristics:
- All long ē and ō are compared to η and ω , which have an open quality in Classical and Koine Greek; with a fair amount of consistency, this is how Diodorus speaks. It is also compared to a Sardinian accent in Italian, where all "e" and "o" are open in quality.
- Generally, Diodorus has a pitch accent rise on stressed syllables, in imitation of ancient Greek. Many of my Roman voices have melodic patterns more similar to modern Italians (or as best as I can realize).
- My Diodorus tends to pronounce short Latin 'u' as Greek omicron 'o', most obviously in "Titus et Sextus" = Τιτος ετ Σεξτος.
- He has trouble pronouncing nasal final -m, so this ends up being an -n; other accusative endings are also often rendered with an -n.
- Occasionally he changes initial consonant 'i' into a short vowel, e.g. " jubeō " into " ĭubeō ", and 'v' into 'u' : "vērum" -> ουηρον.
• For Marcus, due to events in a following chapter, almost never enunciates "h".
• The name Diodōrus, having an omega ω, I render as an open quality long 'o' in my Latin.
Mihi placet.
So cool, man! Splendid, really.
Bonus es magister!
Id audiēns delectātus sum. Beatum est opīnārī antīquōs Graecōs utentēs suam dēclīnātiōnem secundum in linguā latinā articulantēsque litterās E et O longās sicut Η et Ω!
Oscar worthy
Marcus is so improbus, he doesn't even knock.
Marcus really is the bad boy in these series
"Titus tibi mālum dare nōn potest, at ego tibi malum dare possum..." Cool to learn Latin wordplay like this.😄
That was my favourite part, too.
Modo nunc animadvertō Diodōrum accentū Graecō loquī. Enim "Libron tuon" prō "Librum tuum" dīcit.
Astūtus fuistī, Lūcī! 😊
Hahae! ita est. Grātiās
The voice of the magister - just spot on! Wonderful
Shout out to the voice acting.
Thanks very much! 😃
I loved Diodorus' accent! It was simultaneously funny and transporting.
Thanks!!
@@ScorpioMartianus You are most certainly welcome!
Laughing my 'pars tergī īnferior in quā sedēre soleō' off.
Was going to say this was my favorite chapter yet- because of how for some reason I found it hilariously funny- and then this knocked it out of the park for me. I noticed the Greek inflections and loved the old man voice!
Thanks! Heh I went for “if Gandalf had a Greek accent…”
Pensum C: "Quis est discipulus improbissimus?"
F to Marcus' booty. Got Diodorized twice
Vōx Diodōrī in fōrmā prīmigeniā Gandalfī: th-cam.com/video/2FQWhPfhRwU/w-d-xo.html
Gratias tibi, Luci! As always, great reading. Also, I was delighted at the malum-malum pun of Diodorus. I must say the first time I encountered malum with a long a, I thought Lucius was giving his sons something evil :))
Hahaha
Brilliant! I love the magister's voice and accent!
Thanks Carl!
@@ScorpioMartianus I just started this chapter today and really got a kick when I heard the magister's voice. As for the accent, for a few minutes I thought I was hearing things, but eventually I figured out that you were putting on a 'Greek' accent. Absolutely love it and makes learning the chapter even more fun! :)
Gotta love the schoolboys laughing at the mere mention of someone's butt. As a guy myself, I can confirm the accuracy of that scene.
Indeed! One the more realistic and and humorous scenes in the book. Moments like this demonstrate the genius of the author.
Someone give a glass of water to this poor man, I guess that magister is suffering the wort case of dry throat I've heard.
Lol 😆
Splendide recitas, ScorpioMartiane! Sed - Uuu... hunc magistrum Diodorum in schola habere nolo! Pueros illum metere intellego - vox illius terrifica est, hahæ. Mihi viderit narcissista esse! Gratia Dei ego sum puella, itaque Romæ scholam ire mihi necesse non erat. Primum in illum grata sum ; ) "Vivat academia, vivant professores / Vivat membrum quodlibet / Vivant membra quælibet, /Semper sint in flore!"
Hahae! Et grātiās 🥰
5:31 I've got a question about "necesse est". In a previous chapter this expression went with an Accusativus cum Infinitivo, for example "Necesse est puerum dormīre." i.e. "It is necessary that the boy sleeps." with the word in the accusative becoming the subject. Applying this pattern to "Necesse est te punire" would yield "It is necessary that you punish". But surely what is meant here is "it is necessary to punish you". Is there any rule i'm missing or how can I differentiate if the accusative after "necesse est" is the subject or the object? Thanks in advance!
Essentially no; the context clarifies everything.
@@ScorpioMartianus if I wanted to clarify that I'm the one doing the punishing would i use the dative "necesse est mihi te punire" or two accusatives "necesse est me te punire" or is both fine?
Luke: Congratulations (and thanks) on the variety of voices. The subtleties of Diodorus’ name and accents went over my head, I’m afraid; I’m still trying to mimic your nasalisation of vowels and elisions of the final ‘m’. Several high-school years of ecclesiastical Latin (all forgotten) and ancient memories of the old Roman liturgy and hymns keep getting in the way. But I’m grateful for your efforts; they add a great deal to the Orberg book and all to the same purpose. Very valuable. May I ask, does it become clear when to use “cur” and when to use “quid” (or even “quare”; and “quia” vs “quod” for that matter)? In this chapter the Magister seems to use the two interchangeably. But maybe there’s a difference I’m not getting yet. My dictionary (Cassell’s) is no help: it quotes Cicero: “Quid est cur?”. But doesn’t answer the question!
Almost half way through the book now I think. I am getting better.
Excellent!
This was really funny, kinda felt bad for the poor old Greek
Your old man voice is incredible. I'd think you were a professional voice actor
Very kind!
Bene rectitas! Etiam rideo ego!
😃
Thank you!
It gets faster here, but still understandable. :) I liked the pseudo-Greek accent, although I can't catch all the subtelties.
Which type of Latin is this?
Optime, Magistre! Vox tua limpide et iucunda est. Tuae pellliculae, cor pleno, video et ascolto.
This is the moment when Marcus became not the one who knocks.
Haha lol
Thanks for the video! Very helpful.
I wonder how we should translate the word "item" in line 96? According to Wiktionary, it would be "just like"? So, in this case "Just like, the teacher opens his book" (it makes sense, but maybe sounds a bit odd).
When compared to chapters 12 and 13, chapters 14 and 15 - at the very least for me - were significantly easier. Chapter 16 is proving to be a very rough chapter.
I Felt the same here
Perpulchre recitavisti! De aphaeresi tamen a viris doctis et a ab ipsis codicibus cum aliis tum Plautinis dissentire videris ;-) Mea sententia in "Sed ubi est" e littera tota elidenda est (aliter atque in synaloephis scilicet). cetera, inquam, perplacent. incisionem tuam mox ipse discipulis meis proponam! :-)
Gratias tibi! :D Quod ad varias formas elisiones attinet, formas vivas quae in Italica, Hispanica, et in aliis linguis neolatinis inveniri possunt adhibeo, ut satis varietas credibilis inponam; alias audies me "ubist" alias "ubest" alias "ubjest" enuntiare. Plerumque censeo necesse esse junctionem vocalium (i.e. in unam syllabam) fideliter dicere, sic ut Italice, Hispanice, Daciromanice, et ceteris linguis multis.
At dicendum est omnia a Diodoro pronuntiata sunt cum "accentu" ficto "Graeco" quo usus sum. :D Neque sequendus est mos!
Salve magister! Bene recitas! 😁
Cur in penso C est “QUIS (mea sententia, hic est adiectivum ergo QUI) discipulus primus ad ludum advenit?” ?
P.s. ogni tanto leggo i commenti e vedo che si è creata una bella comunità grazie ai tuoi video :)
Ciao! Non ho il pensum di fronte; cosa chiedi esattamente?
@@ScorpioMartianus Il pensum recita “Quis discipulus primus ad ludum advenit?” ovvero “quale primo discepolo arriva a scuola?” Ma “quale” in questo caso è aggettivo di discepolo, quindi la domanda sarebbe dovuto essere “Qui discipulus primus ad ludum advenit?” Perché “quis, quid” dovrebbe essere usato solo come pronome, quindi bisogna usare il pronome/aggettivo “qui, quae, quod”. Sbaglio?
Forse la mia è solo una sottigliezza..
Ho scoperto cosa non andava Luke! La traduzione corretta in italiano è: chi, (in quanto/come) discepolo primo, va verso la scuola?
Ovvero ‘quis’ appunto vuol dire ‘chi’, e ‘discepolo primo’ è apposizione del soggetto (‘primo’ è aggettivo dell’apposizione ‘discepolo’) e quindi va in nominativo!
Spero di aver capito bene.. cerco spesso di capire il lato grammaticale di questo libro perché sto facendo latino all’università ma con il metodo tradizionale, cioè attraverso la grammatica.. Familia romana lo sto usando per consolidare e approfondire alcune cose, cercando di immergermi il giusto ma anche di capire le regole grammaticali che ci sono dietro, perché poi all’università ci viene richiesta l’analisi grammaticale…
Comunque questo libro lo trovo assolutamente geniale!!!
Why the exclamation: "Ō, discipulōs improbōs...!" is in accusative plural?
Diodōrī vōx mē dēlectat! Valē!
Great question! It's kind of like vocative, but it's for people or a person not present.
@@ScorpioMartianus Thanks! It threw me off at first. So in singular it would have been: "Ō, discipulum improbum...!"?
@@rfdcTechnically yes, but you would normally use the vocative.
The forbidden word "cūlus!"
Why does Mārcus say "nec Sextus nec Titus id facit"? Why isn't it "faciunt", since he's referring to two persons?
I think it's the same in English where, the verb follows the nearer of the two nouns, and so is often singular. When using both and, it's plural. Compare: Neither Sextus nor Titus does it. Both Sextus and Titus do it.
Simple question: on lines 6-7, what exactly does “eo modo” (with the accents over the o’s) mean? Is it, “his method/mode” or is it “he is only”? Can somebody please translate the entire sentence? Thank you!!!
It means “by means of that way”
Funny how that magister (who sounds like he will have some heart attack soon btw xD) say -os, instead of -us. Véros vir Graecos hahae.
Thanks for noticing! My attempt to give him an accent
@@ScorpioMartianus Good attempt hahae.
['wε:.ros wir 'grai.kos] in a Greek or maybe Early Latin accent.
Laus pro tua Diodori recitatio! Meusne est sensus an "-os", ut antiqua in Latina lingua, a Diodoro pronunciatur "-us" exitus?
«Titus tibi malum dare non potest, at ego tibi malum dare possum» mea in mente «Malum dabunt Metelli Nævio pœtæ» revocat.
Hahahae, Diodorus meus "-os" pro "-us" saepe dicit tantummodo quod "Graecus" est - censeo Graecum magistrum multo melius Latine pronuntiare potuisse quam ego pro sua voce feci. Solum ut alliciat animos sic jocans pronuntiavi, nec consistenter, hahae.
Pulchrius est sic.
Diodōrus accentum prīscum Latīnum et Graecum habet. Nón sölum dīcit -os prō -us, sed etiam semper ē et ō apertīs ūtitur. Expectō Lūcium et Īrēnam novam pelliculam huius capitulī in quō höc accentū ūtitur.
Mirifica varietas vovarum, re vera. Felix est calliditas Scorpionis!
:D benignē et amīcē dīcis!
Optīma lectiō, nunc nova verba didicī: lūdus, sevērus, pūnīre, cōnsīdere, jānua, vōs/nōs.
Suntne exempla lūdī verbōrum pertinentēs ad longitudinem vōcālium in litterīs antīquīs? Sīcut mālum/malum.
Diodorus est bonus magister ut Lucī.
Ecce bonus magister hahae.
hoc voce Deodorus magister magnum Cthulhum evocare potest! XD
Clunis meae pilosae sunt non me dolentque cum magister eas verberat.
Textus nimis ellisionibus lectus, ut multae perversiones fierent. Non est poema
Minimē. Sīc necessāriē Latīnē. Disce plūra hīc: th-cam.com/play/PLQQL5IeNgck0-tQ4AZgKFMlQCJud_VY_H.html&si=O6-gxxHabglvLgrz
@@ScorpioMartianus doleo te in errore versari
@@ScorpioMartianus Cic. orat. 152
The transcript is not correct. Bad video.