The deathrattle coming true and Taravangian picking up on it... Amazing catch and great moment. If any herald in Braise breaks, they all return and a desolation would start Taln would not need to have broken if Chanarach/another herald did.
Yup. It's also the reason why Hoid in the epilogue of WoK says that Taln is late. Because Hoid knew that Taln didn't break and officially Taln should/could have been back earlier.
Some thoughts I have while listening to the podcase: 1. The stormfather reference to "them" after a herald died might be the fused on Braize. In order for a herald to break they need to catch them first. 2. Once one of the heralds break they all go back to Roshar. 3. I don't think the susfather is Odium because Odium champion was supposed to be Dalinar. 4. If the stormfather didn't tell Gavilar that he want a herald. why does he care about what will Gavliar do once caught. 5. Kaladin can hear Teft because of the connection with the spiritual realm Daliar did in RoW(before the forth ideal) and the "wind" Kaladin is hearing is actually Tanavast.
It is odium, he freaks out when he is told that he will just respawn instead of enduring the torture because odium needs someone who wants to prevent that in order to make a deal to allow him out of the rosharan system.
@@scarsymphony514 right, but why would his plan be for Dalinar to be his champion if six years earlier, Odium explicitly said to Gavilar “Not him. I’m sorry, Gavilar. I made that mistake once. I will never trust your family again.”
@@yonatanyonatano1192 I think it is still because his foresight is obstructed. He did not plan to trust dalinar as his champion he planned to have him surrender to the thrill and control him. But I'm just guessing I'm not Brando the manderson
I don't think the "ask more of you" means they asked Kaladin something previously but rather asking something Kaladin after everything he already went through in a span of a few hours (assuming the end of RoW was few hours before this chapter).
I think the change to Chana description was to help close a bit of a plot hole. If Gavilar knew what one of the heralds looked like, he would likely know what more than one of them looked like. If that’s the case, he should be able to recognize Nale, Kalak, Shalash, etc. - they are in attendance if not in private meetings with him. But he doesn’t believe that they are around, and its important that he not realize they are around or it would mess with his motivations and personality.
That's a great point, and why it makes sense that Sanderson also added replaced the comment about the red hair with dialogue about Gavilar feeling a kinship with the Heralds even though he would not be able to recognize them if he saw them.
I think a lot of the stormfather is Tanavast or his cognitive shadow. I think the whole "they mustn't see they mustn't know" thing makes sense if it is Tanavast (and Cultivation) trying to hoodwink Odium and the Fused. So after this Tanavast goes into hiding, pretending to have merged with the stormfather.
I don’t think Taln has ever broken in his entire history on Braize so it would only take one herald to break, meaning Shallan’s mom breaking is still a sound theory. It’s possible that the forces of Odium knew where she settled and somehow orchestrated the events that lead to her death.
Not sure how deep yall get on a song of ice and fire youtube. But admiral kird made an algorithm to predict when we might see winds of winter. It said 2034 and I just laughed out loud thinking I might get stormlight 6 before winds 🤣
Omg I am convinced it's ishar now it makes since. Stormfather didn't act that human, he always rumbles not crackles this person seams to want to stop odium and then not work with Gav. He is unbound bondsmith it has to be he's using the conection
Also Ishar was the Bondsmith that set up the Oathpact. When the Herald dies in the prologue the Susfather says “I am not ready. They mustn’t see, they mustn’t know” Sounds like Ishy set up some kind of back door or made a mistake when he set up the original terms of the Oathpact.
i am not going to read a third of a stormlight book on a screen so i guess i'll tune back in in december. unless there are wor episodes in between of course ;) love the podcast cheers
Tease us with Jimmy & Jake making us think we'd get to hear the two of them play off each other, but no. Great show nonetheless. Thanks, guys! Like I didn't have enough theories in my head...
The wind could be a remnant of Honor. And the Bondsmith would be Ishar. If Ishar is saved the Oathpack could be renewed. I feel Sanderson likes to hide things in plane sight.
This storm father being Ishar would make alot of since because he thinks he's god and would want the brother of odiums champion to be his. Ishar knew Dalinar was supposed to be
Before RoW was out, I was all for the baby champion theory. You guys have infected me, and now all I can think is how excited I am for the Gavilar and Dalinar fight, even if it isn't fully confirmed 😂
Love the new visuals! Two thoughts - I was rereading WOK last week and the dungspren is literally something that happens in a Kaladin flashback. I'm glad there isn't a consensus on the Recreance... aforementioned reread of WOK had me questioning what it was about with the Feverstone Keep vision. Here's hoping for answers!
Oh yeaaaaah!~ where my kremlings at?! I wasn't going to read these till it came out but once I saw you guys put out the episode out I was like I guess I'll cave in, you only get to have this speculation like this once really and it's just cool going into it and wondering about every little word in these chapters. I wonder if the spren were more cognicent before the recreance happened and the only spren that could say much about it are deadeyes right now . Not much of a theory but I feel like being in proximity to the sibling and a bond smith and that seeing that men are having more honor might be awakening the spren more than just having a radiant bond.
Only 1 herald has to break to begin a desolation. It doesn't take all of them because we know that Taln has NEVER broken. I think it's mentioned in the WoK prelude when we see the other heralds abandon the oathpact.
The weird thing i found about the moment where a herald dies is that the stormfather's physical reaction to it is almost to when a Radiant (especially kaladin) swears an ideal, with the blue frost and stuff.
Ishar is trying to bring spren in the physical realm in physical bodies... Honor spren have the highest success. Syl is an honor spren that has a bigger connection to the physical realm vs the cognitive realm. So my theory is that Ishar may in one way or another gets his hands on Syl and has his first success on bringing spren physically in the world... or Kills her and this destroys Kaladin. Also Dalinar did see the nine Honor blades during a vision.
Reg. Epigraph: Written by someone who has listened to the Wind as a child growing up. We know Wind for its voice recently. So my guess would be Taln as the author or/and Ash.
Also I thought only 1 herald had to break to start a desolation, not all of them. Otherwise the significance of Taln never breaking doesn’t make sense as there wouldn’t be any desolations. Isn’t the running theory that shalan killed her mom and then her mom broke starting another desolation and sending taln back to roshar
The only thing I find odd about the Gavilat POV is that he has seen all the honorblades during Aharetiam and he says he has memorised them, so I am a bit surprised that he didn't immediately recognise the blade Szeth was carrying. He recognises it only at the end.
The voice could be Ba-ado-mishram, Ishar said Radiants touch or enter spiritual realm upon speaking an oath. Hence, Szeth's quest for 4th ideal and Dalinar's quest to save Ishar via szeth entering spiritual realm via his 4th ideal coincided( it was Ishar who told Dalinar that Spriritual realm through the perpendicularity was the reason behind his mental clarity following their fight). Now we know Mishram is in the Spiritual realm and that is where the voice wants Kal to head. But, what has Mishram asked of Kal before and how she can contact him with towers restoration is something that does not add up.
RoW SPOILERS ahead in this comment! I am rereading Rhythm of War, and thanks to all of the theorizing from this podcast, I was forcefully struck by these lines: "'Kaladin can’t be killed,' Vyre said. He knew it, sure as he knew the sun was hot, and that it circled Roshar forever." Given the various death rattles about the sun and what might eventually happen to it... these words seem very intentional (and worrisome for Kaladin's future).
I believe the betrayal of BAM is after she started granting forms. Kelek must have tried working with BAM in some capacity to get her to betray Odium. But then shit hit the ceiling and the false desolation occurred. And kelek went to the Radiants and had her captured. Anyway there us a big chunk oh history between Aharetiam and false Desolation that we don't know about. Like how did the Singers survive against humans without forms of power or the fused.
What if its Bo-Ado-Mishram?? We know that the recreance was caused because of Ba-Ado-Mishram. We know her capture was so devatasing it caused the recreance but what did the knights actually do to forsake their oaths? Ill bet they released her and this is her working behind the scenes.I think its the one speaking to Kaladin in the chapters. It makes so much sense
There are things the Stormfather told us in WoR and OB that we know to be incorrect. We as a community have been under the impression that Sanderson just messed up. But now…!
I'M still with the Ishar theory. Ishar fakes the Storm father. But he also probably pulled a lot of other shit even before he became insane... Arharietium, capturing Ba Ado Mishram
random thought, what if the sus father is sazed/Harmony, we know that he can see the future and he would know about kelsier but its prop wrong a lot of flaws
Only 1 herald has to break for a desolation to begin. Taln never broke. So a different herald must have. Shallan’s mother. When she broke that’s when taln was released
Dalinar is shown his potential future when he goes to see The Nightwatcher - could it be Cultivation playing games? Could also be whispering to Kal, I feel she will be more influential in this book!
Shallan's mother's associate (coppermind calls him Dreder) is suspicious to me. Are all the male heralds accounted for? My crackpot theory is that he was the herald that broke.
Im confident that its honor talking to gavilar as stormfather. Hes a god with knowledge that he needs a champion to defeat odium. However, he notices that it doesnt work with gavilar and he gives up. Its not till dalinar speaks to him in person in a vision stormfather didnt grant do we see this is true.
Wasn't the deal and contest of champions an idea Hoid came up with? What if Hoid is up to no good here? Seems a little out of character perhaps but he did say he doesn't care about roshar and so he won't be averse to risking stuff like working with Gavilar to bring about the desolation as long he gets his contest.
I think a normal stormlight only reader will be fine. You don’t have to understand every single reference or name or easter egg to still understand this story being told. Lord of the Rings has about a million references that wouldn’t be explained for another 10-20 years after publication so the precedent is there and that’s okay.
- Dalinar chooses Hoid as champion.
- Contest is a battle of wits.
- Hoid repeats the insluts joke.
- Roshar doomed.
Already listened on Spotify. Just came to YT to read the comments and feed the algorithm a cookie.
The deathrattle coming true and Taravangian picking up on it... Amazing catch and great moment.
If any herald in Braise breaks, they all return and a desolation would start Taln would not need to have broken if Chanarach/another herald did.
Yup. It's also the reason why Hoid in the epilogue of WoK says that Taln is late. Because Hoid knew that Taln didn't break and officially Taln should/could have been back earlier.
I can't wait to see everyone's reaction when it's revealed that Lift is Cultivation's champion.
😂
Some thoughts I have while listening to the podcase:
1. The stormfather reference to "them" after a herald died might be the fused on Braize. In order for a herald to break they need to catch them first.
2. Once one of the heralds break they all go back to Roshar.
3. I don't think the susfather is Odium because Odium champion was supposed to be Dalinar.
4. If the stormfather didn't tell Gavilar that he want a herald. why does he care about what will Gavliar do once caught.
5. Kaladin can hear Teft because of the connection with the spiritual realm Daliar did in RoW(before the forth ideal) and the "wind" Kaladin is hearing is actually Tanavast.
It is odium, he freaks out when he is told that he will just respawn instead of enduring the torture because odium needs someone who wants to prevent that in order to make a deal to allow him out of the rosharan system.
Agree that it is Odium
But then why was Odium’s planned champion Dalinar if Odium didn’t trust Kholins anymore?
@@yonatanyonatano1192 it was what he wanted but I think they are too shielded by Renarin for odium to foresee with certainty
@@scarsymphony514 right, but why would his plan be for Dalinar to be his champion if six years earlier, Odium explicitly said to Gavilar “Not him. I’m sorry, Gavilar. I made that mistake once. I will never trust your family again.”
@@yonatanyonatano1192 I think it is still because his foresight is obstructed. He did not plan to trust dalinar as his champion he planned to have him surrender to the thrill and control him. But I'm just guessing I'm not Brando the manderson
Also with the Herald being Shalan's mother... Words of Radiance, Chapter 10, first sentence: "The world ended, and Shallan was to blame."
The hype is here and its real 🔥🔥. Cant wait for the cover reveal
Love the pod guys keep it up! Couldnt wait to hear your thoughts on the new chapters
Cheers!
I don't think the "ask more of you" means they asked Kaladin something previously but rather asking something Kaladin after everything he already went through in a span of a few hours (assuming the end of RoW was few hours before this chapter).
I think the change to Chana description was to help close a bit of a plot hole. If Gavilar knew what one of the heralds looked like, he would likely know what more than one of them looked like. If that’s the case, he should be able to recognize Nale, Kalak, Shalash, etc. - they are in attendance if not in private meetings with him.
But he doesn’t believe that they are around, and its important that he not realize they are around or it would mess with his motivations and personality.
That's a great point, and why it makes sense that Sanderson also added replaced the comment about the red hair with dialogue about Gavilar feeling a kinship with the Heralds even though he would not be able to recognize them if he saw them.
Totally missed that death rattle connection 🤯
I think a lot of the stormfather is Tanavast or his cognitive shadow. I think the whole "they mustn't see they mustn't know" thing makes sense if it is Tanavast (and Cultivation) trying to hoodwink Odium and the Fused. So after this Tanavast goes into hiding, pretending to have merged with the stormfather.
Only one Herald has to break, taln has never broke, that’s why they said it was best that it was only him.
I don’t think Taln has ever broken in his entire history on Braize so it would only take one herald to break, meaning Shallan’s mom breaking is still a sound theory. It’s possible that the forces of Odium knew where she settled and somehow orchestrated the events that lead to her death.
Not sure how deep yall get on a song of ice and fire youtube. But admiral kird made an algorithm to predict when we might see winds of winter. It said 2034 and I just laughed out loud thinking I might get stormlight 6 before winds 🤣
Kaladin and Szeth write Knights of Wind and Truth as the first Rosharan buddy cop comedy because they discover humor as a coping mechanism.
Jake interrupts Christian a lot and some interesting lines of reasoning also get interrupted...
I loved this episode!❤
Omg I am convinced it's ishar now it makes since. Stormfather didn't act that human, he always rumbles not crackles this person seams to want to stop odium and then not work with Gav. He is unbound bondsmith it has to be he's using the conection
Also Ishar was the Bondsmith that set up the Oathpact. When the Herald dies in the prologue the Susfather says “I am not ready. They mustn’t see, they mustn’t know” Sounds like Ishy set up some kind of back door or made a mistake when he set up the original terms of the Oathpact.
been waiting for this!!
i am not going to read a third of a stormlight book on a screen so i guess i'll tune back in in december.
unless there are wor episodes in between of course ;)
love the podcast
cheers
No worries, thanks for your support!
Tease us with Jimmy & Jake making us think we'd get to hear the two of them play off each other, but no. Great show nonetheless. Thanks, guys! Like I didn't have enough theories in my head...
The wind could be a remnant of Honor. And the Bondsmith would be Ishar. If Ishar is saved the Oathpack could be renewed. I feel Sanderson likes to hide things in plane sight.
This storm father being Ishar would make alot of since because he thinks he's god and would want the brother of odiums champion to be his. Ishar knew Dalinar was supposed to be
Yo!!! Hyped for wind and truth!
Only takes one herald to break for a desolation to start.
Before RoW was out, I was all for the baby champion theory. You guys have infected me, and now all I can think is how excited I am for the Gavilar and Dalinar fight, even if it isn't fully confirmed 😂
Day ten page prediction: page 631. That number has to be more important that he's letting on
Yeah maybe
The prologue title is To Live, right? If Gavilar is alive, that’s some in your face foreshadowing!
What a great hype! I can’t wait to read this. I do have to finish book 2 & 3 of era one Mistborn.
I’d love the idea that Sigzil is transcribing wind and truth for szeth and kaladin
Love the new visuals! Two thoughts -
I was rereading WOK last week and the dungspren is literally something that happens in a Kaladin flashback.
I'm glad there isn't a consensus on the Recreance... aforementioned reread of WOK had me questioning what it was about with the Feverstone Keep vision. Here's hoping for answers!
Oh yeaaaaah!~ where my kremlings at?! I wasn't going to read these till it came out but once I saw you guys put out the episode out I was like I guess I'll cave in, you only get to have this speculation like this once really and it's just cool going into it and wondering about every little word in these chapters.
I wonder if the spren were more cognicent before the recreance happened and the only spren that could say much about it are deadeyes right now . Not much of a theory but I feel like being in proximity to the sibling and a bond smith and that seeing that men are having more honor might be awakening the spren more than just having a radiant bond.
Shallan’s sketch is a star spren, from a scene in ROW
Only 1 herald has to break to begin a desolation. It doesn't take all of them because we know that Taln has NEVER broken. I think it's mentioned in the WoK prelude when we see the other heralds abandon the oathpact.
The weird thing i found about the moment where a herald dies is that the stormfather's physical reaction to it is almost to when a Radiant (especially kaladin) swears an ideal, with the blue frost and stuff.
I have a theory that Cultivation is terraforming Roshar and wants to combine the Everstorm and Highstorm, using the contest of champions to do so.
Stormfaker. Stormfather but someone using the power of bondsmith to control stormfather. Odium or Ishtar. Or crazy theory Seth’s father.
Ishar is trying to bring spren in the physical realm in physical bodies... Honor spren have the highest success. Syl is an honor spren that has a bigger connection to the physical realm vs the cognitive realm. So my theory is that Ishar may in one way or another gets his hands on Syl and has his first success on bringing spren physically in the world... or Kills her and this destroys Kaladin.
Also Dalinar did see the nine Honor blades during a vision.
Only one herald has to break to restart the desolations!
Reg. Epigraph: Written by someone who has listened to the Wind as a child growing up. We know Wind for its voice recently. So my guess would be Taln as the author or/and Ash.
Day 10 starts on 743, calling it here
Also I thought only 1 herald had to break to start a desolation, not all of them. Otherwise the significance of Taln never breaking doesn’t make sense as there wouldn’t be any desolations. Isn’t the running theory that shalan killed her mom and then her mom broke starting another desolation and sending taln back to roshar
The only thing I find odd about the Gavilat POV is that he has seen all the honorblades during Aharetiam and he says he has memorised them, so I am a bit surprised that he didn't immediately recognise the blade Szeth was carrying. He recognises it only at the end.
The listeners all just look like darth maul to me. I know that they don't look like that, but I can't get it out of my head.
17th shard did an interview with the main illustrator for the cosmere lore book
Gavilar's Stormfather is 100% the new character, the Wind.
Syladin is happening, you can’t run from it!
Lonesome dove is amazing
The voice could be Ba-ado-mishram, Ishar said Radiants touch or enter spiritual realm upon speaking an oath. Hence, Szeth's quest for 4th ideal and Dalinar's quest to save Ishar via szeth entering spiritual realm via his 4th ideal coincided( it was Ishar who told Dalinar that Spriritual realm through the perpendicularity was the reason behind his mental clarity following their fight). Now we know Mishram is in the Spiritual realm and that is where the voice wants Kal to head. But, what has Mishram asked of Kal before and how she can contact him with towers restoration is something that does not add up.
Jimmy stormblessed is back
Only 1 herald has to break that's the flaw in it and why the other left Taln the kept giving up quickly
1:01:00 There was an even stronger reaction, but not by the stormfather, but by a Herald. Which is a clue for it being a Herald.
RoW SPOILERS ahead in this comment!
I am rereading Rhythm of War, and thanks to all of the theorizing from this podcast, I was forcefully struck by these lines: "'Kaladin can’t be killed,' Vyre said. He knew it, sure as he knew the sun was hot, and that it circled Roshar forever."
Given the various death rattles about the sun and what might eventually happen to it... these words seem very intentional (and worrisome for Kaladin's future).
The susfather knows that Eshonai and Dalinar are special same way Taravangian did. He drew some diagrams lol
I believe the betrayal of BAM is after she started granting forms. Kelek must have tried working with BAM in some capacity to get her to betray Odium. But then shit hit the ceiling and the false desolation occurred. And kelek went to the Radiants and had her captured. Anyway there us a big chunk oh history between Aharetiam and false Desolation that we don't know about. Like how did the Singers survive against humans without forms of power or the fused.
Jimmy-sword-nimi lol😂
Hope Jimmy kept his safe hand covered on vacation
What if its Bo-Ado-Mishram?? We know that the recreance was caused because of Ba-Ado-Mishram. We know her capture was so devatasing it caused the recreance but what did the knights actually do to forsake their oaths? Ill bet they released her and this is her working behind the scenes.I think its the one speaking to Kaladin in the chapters. It makes so much sense
There are things the Stormfather told us in WoR and OB that we know to be incorrect. We as a community have been under the impression that Sanderson just messed up.
But now…!
Where can I read about this dress color discovery?
I'M still with the Ishar theory. Ishar fakes the Storm father. But he also probably pulled a lot of other shit even before he became insane... Arharietium, capturing Ba Ado Mishram
random thought, what if the sus father is sazed/Harmony, we know that he can see the future and he would know about kelsier but its prop wrong a lot of flaws
I did have a throwaway thought that Axindweth spiked Gav to tweak him for Kelsier. Couldn't see Sazed playing along with Kelsiers scheming though...
Only 1 herald has to break for a desolation to begin. Taln never broke. So a different herald must have. Shallan’s mother. When she broke that’s when taln was released
Clearly the voice is Brando sando who else has asked more from Kal that the man himself
When you they mention the monolithic stones, could it be the corpses of thunderclasts? Cause they are mentioned in the prologue of WoK
🔥
Sussfather is gold.
1:01:30 there was a reaction
Dalinar is shown his potential future when he goes to see The Nightwatcher - could it be Cultivation playing games? Could also be whispering to Kal, I feel she will be more influential in this book!
Wondering if it’s the wind talking to Kaladin and it has something to do with Roshar and old magic
Shallan's mother's associate (coppermind calls him Dreder) is suspicious to me. Are all the male heralds accounted for? My crackpot theory is that he was the herald that broke.
Im confident that its honor talking to gavilar as stormfather. Hes a god with knowledge that he needs a champion to defeat odium. However, he notices that it doesnt work with gavilar and he gives up. Its not till dalinar speaks to him in person in a vision stormfather didnt grant do we see this is true.
I think it's the storm father NOT honor who decides to bond dalinar. That's why things feel so different
Honor was splintered long before Gavilar's time so thats not really possible.
The cognitive shadow of tanavast is still around. Through stormfather. @@FragmentedTV
I'm gonna guess the words "day 10" appear earlier in the book than actual "Part Day 10". So I guess page 54.
This new covid is UGLY! I read reckoners and skyward...... and Monday's wind and truth segments on the net.
Wasn't the deal and contest of champions an idea Hoid came up with? What if Hoid is up to no good here? Seems a little out of character perhaps but he did say he doesn't care about roshar and so he won't be averse to risking stuff like working with Gavilar to bring about the desolation as long he gets his contest.
I think a normal stormlight only reader will be fine. You don’t have to understand every single reference or name or easter egg to still understand this story being told. Lord of the Rings has about a million references that wouldn’t be explained for another 10-20 years after publication so the precedent is there and that’s okay.
Day Ten Prediction: Page 1111
Day 10 occurs on page 614. A random-number generator told me so.
Day 10: page 803
Day 10: page 69
My bet is for p.899
Yeah never read mistborn lol
Check your email I sent you a bingo card of theories
Is this really Jimmy? #Jimmyfaker
How are you reading the chapters already? Am I missing something?