I have a lot to say about this. For now, I will say that Live at Leeds is a great album and definitely one of the CDs I bought as a teenager even though I had to travel to a city 45 minutes from my town to get it.
When folks decide to ask me if I believe the Bible was inspired by God I say "Absolutely yes." When they ask me what that inspiration means, I tell them that the Bible was "inspired by God" the way this movie was "inspired by "true events." Humans wrote scripture as they were inspired to while contemplating God. Big questions led to big books. God is pretty hands off, so I'm not sure he acted as the Heavenly Content Editor here.
The Bible was at the beginning no religious book. It was a testimony of time, but the "church" changed it in their favour to rise their position in the world and to hide some truth and ways of holy people. At the end it does not matter, which teaching you take, the truth will just be found, if you compare different teachings and you find similarities. Sometimes not easy because of different language and own words. For example Holy, Saint, Ascended Master or Buddha which is at the end the same (here I am not completely correct, but most people will not be able to see a difference). Today even Dakini. Dimensions, heavens or spiritual planes are same too. More interesting is the comparison of deadly sins and virtues, which are the key to open the mind or door to connect to all that is. Unfortunately, it is not mentioned that you can connect not only with God, but also with aliens who like to pretend something in order to influence humanity and beliefs. For this reason it was a big mistake to remove the "Book of Ennoch" from the Bible. This is why meditation is often demonized, but it is nothing more than a deep prayer. But in the end, words are not relevant and not the true language. My expirience is, that the virtues or deadly sins is all you need to know and understand for Meditation and Prayer and it is important on what you focus your mind (hopefully the Son of God or God by himself). The remaining is just documentation of a talk, in which someone said something to someone, who wanted or needed to hear it. History or Structure of Spiritual planes is nice to know, but not relevant too.
@rubberduck777 This is why I've followed Buddhism and Christianity as Wisdom Traditions by Wisdom Teachers. Along came religion and the traditions had to put on suit and tie, get mortgages, and adopt (and enforce) orthodoxies. It was ancient people explaining to their kids why things were the way they were. They had no concept people elsewhere thousands of years down the road would be happy to go to war with each other over words in a book. Here we are!
I can accept that Jesus was a bodhisattva manifesting the dharma through skillful means in his time and place. IMO, beyond the words of Jesus, the Bible sounds a lot like a traditional tribal religion that is not particularly profound. In many places, it gets quite questionable. But that's just my opinion.
@michigandersea3485 you and I seem to think along similar lines here. I see how Jesus and Gotama both had awakening events that changed their life courses. I find a lot of value in many Judaic scriptures, but yes they are the words of a bunch of writers over hundreds and hundreds of years, some of whom wrote stuff that makes me Blanche a bit, but I'm not sure how much of the "historical" accounts are unquestionable. My guess is, not much at all. I encourage using Student's Mind when reading scriptures from any tradition. It helps to see them with fresh eyes. But I'm friends with folks who consider all s rapture, and the folks within them, to be essentially mythical characters. I hold different views, but I totally see where they're coming from. Jesus and Buddha taught folks things and answered questions in the moment, focused on the person in front of them, not intending to establish permanent dogma.
@@DavidJones-bl5wu Gautama had his enlightenment as a child, with 5 or 6 years of age, like me. My key was a documentation about snipers, I watched a day before. Beside that I had no knowledge about any religious texts or any teaching beside that. That is why I know, the right state of mind. But to cross into the same state it is although necessary to focus on the hearth and breath and to stop physical breathing completely. But if state of mind is right, it takes just 20 seconds and you come not close to have shortness of breath. But the changes of oneself are gigantic and the understanding of all changes. Beside that belief is than not the right word and become knowing.
Hello! Is this the Brad Warner that wrote the other side of nothing? I’m listening to it now. It’s wonderful. You did an excellent job. Assuming I have the right person. I study the Tibetan traditions of Buddhism. I am a student of Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo and Ven. Yönten. However, I also love Zen. I love Buddhism. I got into it during the pandemic and it completely changed my life. I have a traumatic brain injury. I also have PTSD stemming from my time in the military. However, I no longer review these conditions as afflictions. Solutions in disguise. ~Study, contemplation and meditation. Wisdom and repeat. Anyways, I hope I have the right person. I look forward to learning more. May you be blessed. 🙏🙏🙏
A sutta from the Pali Canon which is similar to the Kalama Sutta and is extremely insightful is the Gotami Sutta AN 8.53. It equips you to know what beliefs and practices are in line with the Buddha's teachings: At one time the Buddha was staying near Vesālī, at the Great Wood, in the hall with the peaked roof. Then Mahāpajāpati Gotamī went up to the Buddha, bowed, stood to one side, and said to him: “Sir, may the Buddha please teach me Dhamma in brief. When I’ve heard it, I’ll live alone, withdrawn, diligent, keen, and resolute.” “Gotamī, you might know that certain things lead to passion, not dispassion; to yoking, not to unyoking; to accumulation, not dispersal; to more desires, not fewer; to lack of contentment, not contentment; to crowding, not seclusion; to laziness, not energy; to being burdensome, not being unburdensome. Categorically, you should remember these things as not the teaching, not the training, and not the Teacher’s instructions. You might know that certain things lead to dispassion, not passion; to unyoking, not to yoking; to dispersal, not accumulation; to fewer desires, not more; to contentment, not lack of contentment; to seclusion, not crowding; to energy, not laziness; to being unburdensome, not being burdensome. Categorically, you should remember these things as the teaching, the training, and the Teacher’s instructions.”
What a lot of people refer to when they say”Pali Canon” is actually the teachings in the Nikayas. If you value these teaching, we have them in Mahayana (Zen) in the form of the Agamas. There are some differences but from the little that I’ve read of them, it seems like the same teachings. I’m not a scholar though and I’m not making a claim to authority. It would be cool to see you do a video on this- I’d like to know more!
It's true that Buddhists didn't ascribe "divine revelation" to the texts, but only because Buddhism does not revolve around a Capital-G creator god like Abrahamic religions. There were beliefs around the texts, however, that I think approximated the idea. For instance, the Mahavairocana and Diamond Peak Sutras of the Shingon school were considered to have been expounded by the "dharma body" Buddha himself and transmitted to a "great worthy" within a great iron stupa centuries after Shakyamuni's passing. This is a big theme in the Tibetan schools as well (e.g. tantric texts being expounded by dakinis and other types of enlightened beings). Tiantai and the Nichiren schools also saw the Lotus Sutra as the text which revealed the true "mystic law" of the universe, casting off expedient means (at least this is the case with the sutra's "essential teachings"), while the Japanese Pure Land schools considered the expounding of the Amida sutras to have been Shakyamuni's primary purpose for appearing in this world. Most modern Buddhists probably diverge from these beliefs, but they were certainly not uncommon back in the day. Zen was an exception to this in attributing significantly less authority to the scriptural texts. I have a hunch that the focus on the Pali Canon you've been experiencing has at least in part resulted from a more modern notion of historical accuracy that was absent for much of Buddhist history.
about it not being written down: the language buddha spoke (probably some form of gandharan prakrit not exactly like pali but similar) didn't have its own written form, and most people didn't know how to write. the vedic texts the buddha was contesting had their own oral tradition of long verse recitation similar to how the pali scriptures were recited, so i'm assuming they just used the technology that was familiar and at hand. since one of the things that sramana movements were rejecting about the vedic religions was that they were held by a religious authority (the brahmins), i imagine they wanted to make it accessible to everyone. thus oral recitation. there's suttas within the scriptures themselves that the buddha, while he was alive, encouraged everyone to memorize and recite suttas based on his teachings, so if you can believe that it would indicate that it wasn't Ananda/the first buddhist council that invented the suttas, just that Ananda had perfect memory and knew the most of them. also, the kind of paper they used then was made from smoked palm leaves and were very fragile in the humid environment. also where we get the term 'shravaka' or 'hearer', used pejoratively in zen to refer to hinayana monks who 'hear' and recite the teaching without actually understanding or practicing. just some fun facts.
Interesting how both Buddhists and Muslims relied on memorisation early on. Though, we have first century manuscripts that go back to the time of the Chosen One (upon whom be peace), and we do indeed view Divine Revelation as inerrant. But our case is far different than Christianity, not only due to the manuscripts, but also due to the method of religious transmission, through chains of memorisation. Anyways it was interesting to hear a take from a Chan Buddhist on why earlier doesn't equal truer for a Buddhist in particular.
I have to engage every scripture with the meaning of its words rather than its purported authors and speakers. Teacher lineage and transmission is a major help, but the worth of words is in the hearing!
Pali texts comparison with the Christian inerrancy school is unfair. Hans Denck,an Anabaptist, is a better comparison to what was being preserved: ''The letter of scripture alone is like a lamp without oil.'' He also said, in line with the practical side of Gotama's teachings, no one can truly know Christ unless they follow him in life.
Maybe so. All I know is that I was told by Christians that I had to accept that the Bible was 100% accurate and I could not do that. Had I encountered a different set off Christians, I might be a Christian today.
I think for me there's a difference between blind legalism on the one hand; and when people try and ignore the Buddhist sutras they simply don't like on the other. Theravadins are prone to tons of legalism because they don't really allow additions to Buddhist scripture beyond commentary on the Pali Canon. But it's an entirely 'nother matter when people try to say that "the Buddha didn't say that" about something when, to the best of our knowledge and records, he did. Like it's one thing to be cautious about blind legalism. It's another thing to cherry pick the Suttas and Sutras and then say, "I don't believe the Buddha taught that." about something, when to the best of our knowledge, he did. This comes up a lot with various forms of attempts to blend Buddhism with Naturalism and try and discard anything to do with the Sambhogakaya as being "cultural", and thus not "the pure" Buddhist teachings. (And of course such people's idea of "purity" is catered to their own biases and preferences)
I did a series of videos on each fold of the Eightfold Path including what Dogen said about them. They're also in my book The Other Side of Nothing. Here is one of the videos I did on the Eightfold Path: th-cam.com/video/1XShZ5k0Hr4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=VrLpCyeIuZFogCuh I'm not sure what the series on each "fold" is called. I believe I did those about 5 years ago.
So saw an interesting video on what JRR Tolkien didn't like about Vatican Council II (th-cam.com/video/jRklM63mZ0o/w-d-xo.htmlsi=zQNExCeNs7TxDRYE) He didn't like the Protestant efforts to find 'original Christianity". His take is worth reading: "Because 'primitive Christianity' is now and in spite of all 'research' will ever remain largely unknown; because 'primitiveness' is no guarantee of value, and is and was in great part a reflection of ignorance. ... Still more because 'my church' was not intended by Our Lord to be static or remain in perpetual childhood; but to be a living organism (likened to a plant), which develops and changes in externals by the interaction of its bequeathed divine life and history -- the particular circumstances of the world into which it is set. There is no resemblance between the 'mustard-seed' and the full-grown tree. For those living in the days of its branching growth the Tree is the thing, for the history of a living thing is part of its life, and the history of a divine thing is sacred." Applying that here one would say look there was whatever the original words he said in many casual and more formal talks over many years, there was also 500 years of memorized chanting and then thousands of years of stuff that was 'selected' to be canon. That is like a large tree that has grown many branches and someone is looking for the original acorn and angry at the tree because it did something bad to the original acorn. Or as he put it: "The wise may know that it began with a seed, but it is vain to try and dig it up, for it no longer exists, and the virtue and powers that it had now reside in the Tree. Very good: but in husbandry the authorities, the keepers of the Tree, must look after it, according to such wisdom as they possess, prune it, remove cankers, rid it of parasites, and so forth. ... But they will certainly do harm, if they are obsessed with the desire of going back to the seed or even to the first youth of the plant when it was (as they imagine) pretty and unafflicted by evils."
@@evoshroom I think Tolkien would have been aligned with you in the sense the tree is what it is now, trying to roll it back to it's 'original' form is neither possible nor desirable. He obviously, though, wouldn't have been keen on citing the Gospel of Thomas :) This is a metaphor so I think imagine it as a tree that's been somewhere formal for many decades. Perhaps a huge tree at an old university. It has not simply 'grown wild'. For decades groundskeepers have pruned it. Wise or not the tree looks nothing like it would if it had just grown in a forest with no humans touching it. If someone happens to find an old photo or drawing of the tree when it was younger, that would be really cool but it would be wrong to make a fetish out of trying to 'return' the tree to that form on the premise it was better or more pure or more authentic then.
thanks for this brad! you might be interested in reading the Mahabyuha sutta in which the buddha trashes people who debate and cling tightly to views and interpretations. it also has the esteem of being part of one of the oldest sections of the canon and has some of the same style and tone as the dhammaphada which makes me think, if anything in the canon actually came from the buddha's mouth, this might be in the running. here's a great bit: “The very same teaching that some say is ‘ultimate’, others say is inferior. Which of these doctrines is true, for they all claim to be an expert?” “They say their own teaching is perfect, while the teaching of others is inferior. So arguing, they quarrel, each saying their own convictions are the truth. If someone else’s disparagement makes you inferior, no-one in any teaching would be distinguished. For each of them says the other’s teaching is lacking, while forcefully advocating their own. But if they honor their own teachings just as they praise their own journeys, then all doctrines would be equally valid, and purity for them would be an individual matter.
It seems like all that was worth recording in the distant past wasn't transcribed until much later, sometimes after centuries. I did not know of Nishijima's travels to and his interest in Israel. Have you given any thought into writing down stories of your teacher's life and interests for posterity? I would be interested in a Brad Warner biography of Nishijima.. Did you happen to see the Wes Huff vs. Billy Carson debate on Huff's TH-cam Channel? Much there on hearsay vs scholarship.
Super interesting video! What do you think about the differences in how enlightenment is described in these texts versus in Zen? In Zen it seems to be an instantaneous momentary thing whereas in the Pali canon it is described as a state you can enter into for hours or even days on end.
I have bad news for you Brad. Live at Leeds has a TON of fixes. Most of the backing vocals are completely studio created, as well as some of the guitars and bass. They released “Live at Hull” a few years back and you can kind of tell what’s live and what’s not (capturing vocals was tough) on “Leeds” if you compare the two. ALL THAT SAID, “Live at Leeds” is one of the best rock albums ever. Also, your pony is still excellent.
Letting go of all views cannot be correct because it leads to the self-contradiction of rejecting the view of unattachment as part of letting go of any views. Finding the answer to a contradiction is not the same as letting go of finding the answer, but both result in nonarguement.
Hi Brad, I've heard that the last words of the Buddha were "be a lantern unto yourself. " Im not knowledgeable enough to know if this is true or not. Is this correct? Also, if it is correct, does this mean use our internal wisdom to guide us down the path out of ignorance. And on top of that, if we should be the light that guides us on our own paths, what's the 8 fold path's purpose? Is the 8 fold path just kind of like training wheels? Or those things they put up at bowling allys that stop the balls going into the gutter. "Be a lantern unto yourself "... were these his last words? What is your take on this saying/teaching? Great video, as always 👍 🙏 One last thing, one of the books you mentioned, you said may have a Hawaiian author, im Hawaiian. And would love it if you could tell me who that was. (The yt subtitles were not reliable) Thanks again.🙏
@@TYPHON2713 Indeed not. If I look in my copy of that book, it says that he was born in Sri Lanka in 1907 and studied at Calcutta University and at the Sorbonne, Paris.
The Zen texts were recorded on scrolls in the 1200's AD. There were no audio recordings. Japan didn't even have mechanical clocks yet. The Pali cannon is even older.
Brad, there is a group of Zenndies hanging out at the airport preaching that your teaching videos are infallible and without error....I had to disagree, and remind them that only your music is. 😁🎸
Teachings is a big word. I would call it a burden for seekers. The Bible for example was at the beginning no religious book. It was a testimony of time, but the "church" changed it in their favour to rise their position in the world and to hide some truth and ways of holy people. At the end it does not matter, which teaching you take, the truth will just be found, if you compare different teachings and you find similarities. Sometimes not easy because of different language and own words. For example Holy, Saint, Ascended Master or Buddha which is at the end the same (here I am not completely correct, but most people will not be able to see a difference). Today even Dakini. Dimensions, heavens or spiritual planes are same too. More interesting is the comparison of deadly sins and virtues, which are the key to open the mind or door to connect to all that is. Unfortunately, it is not mentioned that you can connect not only with God, but also with aliens who like to pretend something in order to influence humanity and beliefs. For this reason it was a big mistake to remove the "Book of Ennoch" from the Bible. This is why meditation is often demonized, but it is nothing more than a deep prayer. But in the end, words are not relevant and not the true language. My expirience is, that the virtues or deadly sins is all you need to know and understand for Meditation and Prayer and it is important on what you focus your mind (hopefully the Son of God or God himself). The remaining is just documentation of a talk, in which someone said something to someone, who wanted or needed to hear it. History or Structure of Spiritual planes is nice to know, but not relevant too.
The reason they didn't write the teachings down was likely because there was a huge oral tradition in India already, oral recitation error corrects in large groups chanting, it was difficult to store written teachings anyway in the tropics and store them and yes maybe the possibility of changing texts. Pali is really close to Sanskrit. Given that the texts were memorised quickly after the Buddha died Pali is probably close enough and closer than the Sanskrit versions. "Hinayana" is an insulting term btw "hino" in Pali means low, coarse, shit so that's very disrespectful to refer to Theravada like that and speaks volumes about a person using that term. As a layperson without much expertise on Early Buddhism you over-simplify things and leave yourself open to a lot of correction in what you are saying. You can then take some YT viewer comments and twist them as Theravada fundamentalism but it is simply a by-product of promoting your own simplistic opinions publicly. There is a serious academic scholarly effort to understand what we can reasonably say what the historical Buddha actually said. Look up Ajahn Sujato and Ajahn Brahmali's Early Buddhism Workshops on YT for example. That's a reasonable intellectual undertaking and that series is intelligent and well researched. A person like the Buddha who understands the Dharma is actually "incapable of error" in describing the Dharma as they understand it. The understanding of somebody like this is called "Right View" for a reason. You clearly don't understand Dharma correctly as you would then understand this point ("Samma-Ditthi" in Pali). That's not at all complicated btw, one doesn't need to be an Arahant to see this. But only a total amateur would not understand that point. So when u are only at best a beginner without understanding Dharma more than superficially and then put yourself out there as a Dharma teacher without "Right View" (as you think the Buddha could make a mistake describing Dharma) that is a reflection of your own shortcomings not the error of the Buddha or of other enlightened beings, (Ariyans(. Once a person has Right View they are then an Ariyan. So they will not make mistakes regarding their understanding of the Dharma, that's the whole point. The do not misunderstand the world any more leading to an ending of rebirth, ignorance being the driver of the process of rebirth, Dependent Origination. It is not wise to put yourself forward as a Dharma teacher IMO and you will likely make a lot of bad Karma for yourself leading others astray and diluting skilful teachings leading to Nirvana. Go to work on your sense of self rather than promoting your sense of self on YT if you have anY humility at all or actually wish to see things as they are. Having spent a lot of time in monasteries it is always the most disfunctional laypeople who write books and want to teach rather than follow the Noble Eightfold Path. The old expression rings true here, "those who can't do, teach"
The Gospel of Thomas is more accurate than any of the "perfect" texts. "Five books alone of God's indighting \ Moses the surch left us in writing \ But tis by very few attended \ To practise what's therein commanded \ Thre Patriarch's all both deaf & dumb \ Comprise it in one onely sum" -- Basil Valentine
NOPE! ... If you truly want to understand, read the Book : The Buddha Before Buddhism by Gil Fransdal a Stanford University PhD and excellent Zen Buddhist teacher. Best Wishes
@HardcoreZen I haven't read it but I know it contains a translation of a text called the Aṭṭhakavagga Sutta or the "Book of Eights". Some scholars, for reasons I haven't looked into, think that it may be the earliest and most authentic of ole Shakya's original teachings 🤷
I have a lot to say about this. For now, I will say that Live at Leeds is a great album and definitely one of the CDs I bought as a teenager even though I had to travel to a city 45 minutes from my town to get it.
When folks decide to ask me if I believe the Bible was inspired by God I say "Absolutely yes." When they ask me what that inspiration means, I tell them that the Bible was "inspired by God" the way this movie was "inspired by "true events." Humans wrote scripture as they were inspired to while contemplating God. Big questions led to big books. God is pretty hands off, so I'm not sure he acted as the Heavenly Content Editor here.
The Bible was at the beginning no religious book. It was a testimony of time, but the "church" changed it in their favour to rise their position in the world and to hide some truth and ways of holy people. At the end it does not matter, which teaching you take, the truth will just be found, if you compare different teachings and you find similarities. Sometimes not easy because of different language and own words. For example Holy, Saint, Ascended Master or Buddha which is at the end the same (here I am not completely correct, but most people will not be able to see a difference). Today even Dakini. Dimensions, heavens or spiritual planes are same too.
More interesting is the comparison of deadly sins and virtues, which are the key to open the mind or door to connect to all that is.
Unfortunately, it is not mentioned that you can connect not only with God, but also with aliens who like to pretend something in order to influence humanity and beliefs. For this reason it was a big mistake to remove the "Book of Ennoch" from the Bible. This is why meditation is often demonized, but it is nothing more than a deep prayer. But in the end, words are not relevant and not the true language.
My expirience is, that the virtues or deadly sins is all you need to know and understand for Meditation and Prayer and it is important on what you focus your mind (hopefully the Son of God or God by himself). The remaining is just documentation of a talk, in which someone said something to someone, who wanted or needed to hear it.
History or Structure of Spiritual planes is nice to know, but not relevant too.
@rubberduck777 This is why I've followed Buddhism and Christianity as Wisdom Traditions by Wisdom Teachers. Along came religion and the traditions had to put on suit and tie, get mortgages, and adopt (and enforce) orthodoxies. It was ancient people explaining to their kids why things were the way they were. They had no concept people elsewhere thousands of years down the road would be happy to go to war with each other over words in a book. Here we are!
I can accept that Jesus was a bodhisattva manifesting the dharma through skillful means in his time and place. IMO, beyond the words of Jesus, the Bible sounds a lot like a traditional tribal religion that is not particularly profound. In many places, it gets quite questionable. But that's just my opinion.
@michigandersea3485 you and I seem to think along similar lines here. I see how Jesus and Gotama both had awakening events that changed their life courses. I find a lot of value in many Judaic scriptures, but yes they are the words of a bunch of writers over hundreds and hundreds of years, some of whom wrote stuff that makes me Blanche a bit, but I'm not sure how much of the "historical" accounts are unquestionable. My guess is, not much at all. I encourage using Student's Mind when reading scriptures from any tradition. It helps to see them with fresh eyes. But I'm friends with folks who consider all s rapture, and the folks within them, to be essentially mythical characters. I hold different views, but I totally see where they're coming from. Jesus and Buddha taught folks things and answered questions in the moment, focused on the person in front of them, not intending to establish permanent dogma.
@@DavidJones-bl5wu Gautama had his enlightenment as a child, with 5 or 6 years of age, like me. My key was a documentation about snipers, I watched a day before. Beside that I had no knowledge about any religious texts or any teaching beside that. That is why I know, the right state of mind. But to cross into the same state it is although necessary to focus on the hearth and breath and to stop physical breathing completely. But if state of mind is right, it takes just 20 seconds and you come not close to have shortness of breath. But the changes of oneself are gigantic and the understanding of all changes. Beside that belief is than not the right word and become knowing.
Hello! Is this the Brad Warner that wrote the other side of nothing? I’m listening to it now. It’s wonderful. You did an excellent job. Assuming I have the right person. I study the Tibetan traditions of Buddhism. I am a student of Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo and Ven. Yönten. However, I also love Zen. I love Buddhism. I got into it during the pandemic and it completely changed my life. I have a traumatic brain injury. I also have PTSD stemming from my time in the military. However, I no longer review these conditions as afflictions. Solutions in disguise.
~Study, contemplation and meditation. Wisdom and repeat.
Anyways, I hope I have the right person. I look forward to learning more. May you be blessed. 🙏🙏🙏
I did write that book! Thank you!
@ excellent! I’m glad I found your TH-cam page. I will be following along. Thank you for sharing these wonderful teachings. 🙏🙏🙏
A sutta from the Pali Canon which is similar to the Kalama Sutta and is extremely insightful is the Gotami Sutta AN 8.53. It equips you to know what beliefs and practices are in line with the Buddha's teachings:
At one time the Buddha was staying near Vesālī, at the Great Wood, in the hall with the peaked roof. Then Mahāpajāpati Gotamī went up to the Buddha, bowed, stood to one side, and said to him:
“Sir, may the Buddha please teach me Dhamma in brief. When I’ve heard it, I’ll live alone, withdrawn, diligent, keen, and resolute.”
“Gotamī, you might know that certain things lead to passion, not dispassion; to yoking, not to unyoking; to accumulation, not dispersal; to more desires, not fewer; to lack of contentment, not contentment; to crowding, not seclusion; to laziness, not energy; to being burdensome, not being unburdensome. Categorically, you should remember these things as not the teaching, not the training, and not the Teacher’s instructions.
You might know that certain things lead to dispassion, not passion; to unyoking, not to yoking; to dispersal, not accumulation; to fewer desires, not more; to contentment, not lack of contentment; to seclusion, not crowding; to energy, not laziness; to being unburdensome, not being burdensome. Categorically, you should remember these things as the teaching, the training, and the Teacher’s instructions.”
I want to hear more about this!
What a lot of people refer to when they say”Pali Canon” is actually the teachings in the Nikayas. If you value these teaching, we have them in Mahayana (Zen) in the form of the Agamas. There are some differences but from the little that I’ve read of them, it seems like the same teachings. I’m not a scholar though and I’m not making a claim to authority.
It would be cool to see you do a video on this- I’d like to know more!
It's true that Buddhists didn't ascribe "divine revelation" to the texts, but only because Buddhism does not revolve around a Capital-G creator god like Abrahamic religions. There were beliefs around the texts, however, that I think approximated the idea. For instance, the Mahavairocana and Diamond Peak Sutras of the Shingon school were considered to have been expounded by the "dharma body" Buddha himself and transmitted to a "great worthy" within a great iron stupa centuries after Shakyamuni's passing.
This is a big theme in the Tibetan schools as well (e.g. tantric texts being expounded by dakinis and other types of enlightened beings). Tiantai and the Nichiren schools also saw the Lotus Sutra as the text which revealed the true "mystic law" of the universe, casting off expedient means (at least this is the case with the sutra's "essential teachings"), while the Japanese Pure Land schools considered the expounding of the Amida sutras to have been Shakyamuni's primary purpose for appearing in this world.
Most modern Buddhists probably diverge from these beliefs, but they were certainly not uncommon back in the day. Zen was an exception to this in attributing significantly less authority to the scriptural texts. I have a hunch that the focus on the Pali Canon you've been experiencing has at least in part resulted from a more modern notion of historical accuracy that was absent for much of Buddhist history.
about it not being written down: the language buddha spoke (probably some form of gandharan prakrit not exactly like pali but similar) didn't have its own written form, and most people didn't know how to write. the vedic texts the buddha was contesting had their own oral tradition of long verse recitation similar to how the pali scriptures were recited, so i'm assuming they just used the technology that was familiar and at hand. since one of the things that sramana movements were rejecting about the vedic religions was that they were held by a religious authority (the brahmins), i imagine they wanted to make it accessible to everyone. thus oral recitation. there's suttas within the scriptures themselves that the buddha, while he was alive, encouraged everyone to memorize and recite suttas based on his teachings, so if you can believe that it would indicate that it wasn't Ananda/the first buddhist council that invented the suttas, just that Ananda had perfect memory and knew the most of them. also, the kind of paper they used then was made from smoked palm leaves and were very fragile in the humid environment. also where we get the term 'shravaka' or 'hearer', used pejoratively in zen to refer to hinayana monks who 'hear' and recite the teaching without actually understanding or practicing. just some fun facts.
@@pajamawilliams9847 Thank you!
This is some of my understanding
Interesting how both Buddhists and Muslims relied on memorisation early on. Though, we have first century manuscripts that go back to the time of the Chosen One (upon whom be peace), and we do indeed view Divine Revelation as inerrant. But our case is far different than Christianity, not only due to the manuscripts, but also due to the method of religious transmission, through chains of memorisation. Anyways it was interesting to hear a take from a Chan Buddhist on why earlier doesn't equal truer for a Buddhist in particular.
I have to engage every scripture with the meaning of its words rather than its purported authors and speakers. Teacher lineage and transmission is a major help, but the worth of words is in the hearing!
Pali texts comparison with the Christian inerrancy school is unfair. Hans Denck,an Anabaptist, is a better comparison to what was being preserved: ''The letter of scripture alone is like a lamp without oil.'' He also said, in line with the practical side of Gotama's teachings, no one can truly know Christ unless they follow him in life.
Maybe so. All I know is that I was told by Christians that I had to accept that the Bible was 100% accurate and I could not do that. Had I encountered a different set off Christians, I might be a Christian today.
The Prajnaparamita Sutra may actually predate the Pali Canon
Nonsense
I think for me there's a difference between blind legalism on the one hand; and when people try and ignore the Buddhist sutras they simply don't like on the other. Theravadins are prone to tons of legalism because they don't really allow additions to Buddhist scripture beyond commentary on the Pali Canon. But it's an entirely 'nother matter when people try to say that "the Buddha didn't say that" about something when, to the best of our knowledge and records, he did.
Like it's one thing to be cautious about blind legalism. It's another thing to cherry pick the Suttas and Sutras and then say, "I don't believe the Buddha taught that." about something, when to the best of our knowledge, he did. This comes up a lot with various forms of attempts to blend Buddhism with Naturalism and try and discard anything to do with the Sambhogakaya as being "cultural", and thus not "the pure" Buddhist teachings. (And of course such people's idea of "purity" is catered to their own biases and preferences)
Is there the teaching of The Eightfold Path in Zen Buddhism? Did Master Dogen say (write) anything about it?
I did a series of videos on each fold of the Eightfold Path including what Dogen said about them. They're also in my book The Other Side of Nothing. Here is one of the videos I did on the Eightfold Path:
th-cam.com/video/1XShZ5k0Hr4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=VrLpCyeIuZFogCuh
I'm not sure what the series on each "fold" is called. I believe I did those about 5 years ago.
"No reliance on words and phrases" - but make the coolest words and phrases anyway
So saw an interesting video on what JRR Tolkien didn't like about Vatican Council II (th-cam.com/video/jRklM63mZ0o/w-d-xo.htmlsi=zQNExCeNs7TxDRYE)
He didn't like the Protestant efforts to find 'original Christianity". His take is worth reading:
"Because 'primitive Christianity' is now and in spite of all 'research' will ever remain largely unknown; because 'primitiveness' is no guarantee of value, and is and was in great part a reflection of ignorance. ... Still more because 'my church' was not intended by Our Lord to be static or remain in perpetual childhood; but to be a living organism (likened to a plant), which develops and changes in externals by the interaction of its bequeathed divine life and history -- the particular circumstances of the world into which it is set. There is no resemblance between the 'mustard-seed' and the full-grown tree. For those living in the days of its branching growth the Tree is the thing, for the history of a living thing is part of its life, and the history of a divine thing is sacred."
Applying that here one would say look there was whatever the original words he said in many casual and more formal talks over many years, there was also 500 years of memorized chanting and then thousands of years of stuff that was 'selected' to be canon. That is like a large tree that has grown many branches and someone is looking for the original acorn and angry at the tree because it did something bad to the original acorn. Or as he put it:
"The wise may know that it began with a seed, but it is vain to try and dig it up, for it no longer exists, and the virtue and powers that it had now reside in the Tree. Very good: but in husbandry the authorities, the keepers of the Tree, must look after it, according to such wisdom as they possess, prune it, remove cankers, rid it of parasites, and so forth. ... But they will certainly do harm, if they are obsessed with the desire of going back to the seed or even to the first youth of the plant when it was (as they imagine) pretty and unafflicted by evils."
"in husbandry the authorities, the keepers of the Tree, must look after it"
At other levels of this same idea, the tree is your mind or brain itself. It's your mind. It isn't the authorities' mind. You are the keeper of this.
@@evoshroom I think Tolkien would have been aligned with you in the sense the tree is what it is now, trying to roll it back to it's 'original' form is neither possible nor desirable. He obviously, though, wouldn't have been keen on citing the Gospel of Thomas :)
This is a metaphor so I think imagine it as a tree that's been somewhere formal for many decades. Perhaps a huge tree at an old university. It has not simply 'grown wild'. For decades groundskeepers have pruned it. Wise or not the tree looks nothing like it would if it had just grown in a forest with no humans touching it.
If someone happens to find an old photo or drawing of the tree when it was younger, that would be really cool but it would be wrong to make a fetish out of trying to 'return' the tree to that form on the premise it was better or more pure or more authentic then.
thanks for this brad! you might be interested in reading the Mahabyuha sutta in which the buddha trashes people who debate and cling tightly to views and interpretations. it also has the esteem of being part of one of the oldest sections of the canon and has some of the same style and tone as the dhammaphada which makes me think, if anything in the canon actually came from the buddha's mouth, this might be in the running. here's a great bit:
“The very same teaching that some say is ‘ultimate’,
others say is inferior.
Which of these doctrines is true,
for they all claim to be an expert?”
“They say their own teaching is perfect,
while the teaching of others is inferior.
So arguing, they quarrel,
each saying their own convictions are the truth.
If someone else’s disparagement makes you inferior,
no-one in any teaching would be distinguished.
For each of them says the other’s teaching is lacking,
while forcefully advocating their own.
But if they honor their own teachings
just as they praise their own journeys,
then all doctrines would be equally valid,
and purity for them would be an individual matter.
I think we're hapless apes cursed woth language and we don't know what to do
It seems like all that was worth recording in the distant past wasn't transcribed until much later, sometimes after centuries.
I did not know of Nishijima's travels to and his interest in Israel.
Have you given any thought into writing down stories of your teacher's life and interests for posterity?
I would be interested in a Brad Warner biography of Nishijima..
Did you happen to see the Wes Huff vs. Billy Carson debate on Huff's TH-cam Channel?
Much there on hearsay vs scholarship.
Early commentaries of Theravada tradition contains extra details of fundamental Theravada teachings.
"Gotama Buddha" by Nakamura has good discussions of anachronisms in the Pali Canon.
Yeah. I found that book fascinating.
Walpola Rahula was Sri Lankan. He had a famous debate with Krishnamurti. 😇
@@magpiecity Thanks. I thought I heard he was Hawaiian somewhere. I guess not.
Super interesting video! What do you think about the differences in how enlightenment is described in these texts versus in Zen? In Zen it seems to be an instantaneous momentary thing whereas in the Pali canon it is described as a state you can enter into for hours or even days on end.
Do you have videos about who wrote the Mahayana sutras?
@@jfay124 No. I don’t think anyone really knows.
I have bad news for you Brad. Live at Leeds has a TON of fixes. Most of the backing vocals are completely studio created, as well as some of the guitars and bass. They released “Live at Hull” a few years back and you can kind of tell what’s live and what’s not (capturing vocals was tough) on “Leeds” if you compare the two. ALL THAT SAID, “Live at Leeds” is one of the best rock albums ever. Also, your pony is still excellent.
@@charliebigred Really? I always thought Live at Leeds was mostly un-fixed. My faith has been shattered!
What do you mean by my pony?
Sometimes I watch isolated bass by John Entwhistle on TH-cam and am just blown away by his ability. He was by far the best player in the Who imo.
Afraid so. Neither live nor at Leeds 😂
Buddha taught unattachment. So let go of all the religious scholars' attachment of any views if they dont want to suffer and argue.
Letting go of all views cannot be correct because it leads to the self-contradiction of rejecting the view of unattachment as part of letting go of any views. Finding the answer to a contradiction is not the same as letting go of finding the answer, but both result in nonarguement.
@evoshroom Not rejecting. More like don't be obsessed with views. Take the middle way.
Thanks
Hi Brad, I've heard that the last words of the Buddha were "be a lantern unto yourself. "
Im not knowledgeable enough to know if this is true or not. Is this correct? Also, if it is correct, does this mean use our internal wisdom to guide us down the path out of ignorance.
And on top of that, if we should be the light that guides us on our own paths, what's the 8 fold path's purpose? Is the 8 fold path just kind of like training wheels? Or those things they put up at bowling allys that stop the balls going into the gutter.
"Be a lantern unto yourself "... were these his last words? What is your take on this saying/teaching?
Great video, as always 👍 🙏
One last thing, one of the books you mentioned, you said may have a Hawaiian author, im Hawaiian. And would love it if you could tell me who that was. (The yt subtitles were not reliable)
Thanks again.🙏
The author was Walpola Rahula.
@KiwiExpressCream thanks, definitely not Hawaiian. Lol
@@TYPHON2713 Indeed not. If I look in my copy of that book, it says that he was born in Sri Lanka in 1907 and studied at Calcutta University and at the Sorbonne, Paris.
Do they have the original audio recordings of teh Buddha or are they lost?
The Zen texts were recorded on scrolls in the 1200's AD. There were no audio recordings. Japan didn't even have mechanical clocks yet. The Pali cannon is even older.
@@evoshroom I guess someone recorded over the tapes. Pity.
Isn't triloterapy is the real teaching of the budah according to master amon
Brad, there is a group of Zenndies hanging out at the airport preaching that your teaching videos are infallible and without error....I had to disagree, and remind them that only your music is. 😁🎸
Thank you!
Teachings is a big word. I would call it a burden for seekers.
The Bible for example was at the beginning no religious book. It was a testimony of time, but the "church" changed it in their favour to rise their position in the world and to hide some truth and ways of holy people. At the end it does not matter, which teaching you take, the truth will just be found, if you compare different teachings and you find similarities. Sometimes not easy because of different language and own words. For example Holy, Saint, Ascended Master or Buddha which is at the end the same (here I am not completely correct, but most people will not be able to see a difference). Today even Dakini. Dimensions, heavens or spiritual planes are same too.
More interesting is the comparison of deadly sins and virtues, which are the key to open the mind or door to connect to all that is.
Unfortunately, it is not mentioned that you can connect not only with God, but also with aliens who like to pretend something in order to influence humanity and beliefs. For this reason it was a big mistake to remove the "Book of Ennoch" from the Bible. This is why meditation is often demonized, but it is nothing more than a deep prayer. But in the end, words are not relevant and not the true language.
My expirience is, that the virtues or deadly sins is all you need to know and understand for Meditation and Prayer and it is important on what you focus your mind (hopefully the Son of God or God himself). The remaining is just documentation of a talk, in which someone said something to someone, who wanted or needed to hear it.
History or Structure of Spiritual planes is nice to know, but not relevant too.
The reason they didn't write the teachings down was likely because there was a huge oral tradition in India already, oral recitation error corrects in large groups chanting, it was difficult to store written teachings anyway in the tropics and store them and yes maybe the possibility of changing texts. Pali is really close to Sanskrit. Given that the texts were memorised quickly after the Buddha died Pali is probably close enough and closer than the Sanskrit versions. "Hinayana" is an insulting term btw "hino" in Pali means low, coarse, shit so that's very disrespectful to refer to Theravada like that and speaks volumes about a person using that term. As a layperson without much expertise on Early Buddhism you over-simplify things and leave yourself open to a lot of correction in what you are saying. You can then take some YT viewer comments and twist them as Theravada fundamentalism but it is simply a by-product of promoting your own simplistic opinions publicly. There is a serious academic scholarly effort to understand what we can reasonably say what the historical Buddha actually said. Look up Ajahn Sujato and Ajahn Brahmali's Early Buddhism Workshops on YT for example. That's a reasonable intellectual undertaking and that series is intelligent and well researched. A person like the Buddha who understands the Dharma is actually "incapable of error" in describing the Dharma as they understand it. The understanding of somebody like this is called "Right View" for a reason. You clearly don't understand Dharma correctly as you would then understand this point ("Samma-Ditthi" in Pali). That's not at all complicated btw, one doesn't need to be an Arahant to see this. But only a total amateur would not understand that point. So when u are only at best a beginner without understanding Dharma more than superficially and then put yourself out there as a Dharma teacher without "Right View" (as you think the Buddha could make a mistake describing Dharma) that is a reflection of your own shortcomings not the error of the Buddha or of other enlightened beings, (Ariyans(. Once a person has Right View they are then an Ariyan. So they will not make mistakes regarding their understanding of the Dharma, that's the whole point. The do not misunderstand the world any more leading to an ending of rebirth, ignorance being the driver of the process of rebirth, Dependent Origination. It is not wise to put yourself forward as a Dharma teacher IMO and you will likely make a lot of bad Karma for yourself leading others astray and diluting skilful teachings leading to Nirvana. Go to work on your sense of self rather than promoting your sense of self on YT if you have anY humility at all or actually wish to see things as they are. Having spent a lot of time in monasteries it is always the most disfunctional laypeople who write books and want to teach rather than follow the Noble Eightfold Path. The old expression rings true here, "those who can't do, teach"
@@John-n6h7m Wow. You REALLY swallowed the Kool Aid! There is no value at all to this comment. Go away.
The Gospel of Thomas is more accurate than any of the "perfect" texts. "Five books alone of God's indighting \ Moses the surch left us in writing \ But tis by very few attended \ To practise what's therein commanded \ Thre Patriarch's all both deaf & dumb \ Comprise it in one onely sum" -- Basil Valentine
NOPE! ... If you truly want to understand, read the Book : The Buddha Before Buddhism by Gil Fransdal a Stanford University PhD and excellent Zen Buddhist teacher. Best Wishes
@@Nooneself you’re gonna have to give me more than that for a “nope.”
@HardcoreZen I haven't read it but I know it contains a translation of a text called the Aṭṭhakavagga Sutta or the "Book of Eights". Some scholars, for reasons I haven't looked into, think that it may be the earliest and most authentic of ole Shakya's original teachings 🤷