hey Shane Rhodes... I never had any problem pushing them toward the full velocity ... Just look for your accuracy load ... sometimes that happens before ya get there! work your loads up safely as always....
Ok thanks for the replie guys it is getting me closer to casting all the time just waiting for some funds to get started . oh and what would you recommend for a good 165 gr range bullets ?
You are absolutely the best reloading and powder coating channel by far you have taught me and continue teaching me a lot thanks man for what you i would love for you to start another channel where ever i would pay to watch and so would a lot of others
Your mystery carbine has a really great reputation. Lots of people love them. Nothing to be embarrassed about! I'll be buying one in 9mm pretty soon. Great tests!
Hey Johnny's Reloading Bench! Yea Guilty pleasure! fun and accurate to 100 yrds... The 9mm likes larger bullets......I was just having some fun with the gun snobs! : ) Good to see ya put some screws in the saw horse! .....Nice job.
Your mystery carbine has my attention, I have a pistol by the same manufacturer in .45 ACP. I ended up with it in a trade before I really knew what it was. I have to say that when I was cleaning the pistol one of the parts went flying across the room and I wasn’t able to find the part. I contacted the manufacturer and they had me call their warranty people who sent me the part I lost plus a few other parts that have been upgraded since my pistol was made! They sent them out to me for free so I’m impressed by their warranty policy! That pistol does shoot, but damn it is heavy!
Great comparison, I think you made the tests as fair as possible with what you had. Those standard deviations were awesome. Lots of good information man keep them coming!
thanks West Desert Shooter! never seems like so much to it until I get into some testing and realize I could work for days on it! ; ) Thanks for watching!
I appreciate these videos as references for my own bullet and coating episodes in numerous calibers. After chrono graphing comparisons of the Acme brand coated bullet in multiple 9mm pistols, I decided to use my old stash of wheel weights for casting and coating procedure on both 45 acp and 28 spcl.. On initial testing of the Acme brand I discovered an average of 30-35 fps increases of the coated bullet over my X-Treme cupper jacketed and a friends Berry's copper bullets. I cast a batch of 200 gr swc for the 45 acp, loaded with the identical 700X powder, seated at the exact dimensions, 1.245". On a 6 shot average with mixed brass was 26 fps increase for the coated bullet over my X-Treme brand. My sole complication is that the cast, powdered bullets coated with Eastwood light Ford blue color are almost to beautiful to fire-LOL. I am looking forward to casting and coating a batch of 140 gr for my 6.5 x 55 Swedish Mauser build at 2300-2400 fps. Thanks again Elvis, you got me in trouble with the wife, putting off Honey-Dos. Very full of information, thorough.
I love those hi point carbines! They shoot great! Lots of good info here. I'm glad your results almost matched mine. I'm also glad I'm not the only one that thinks about this kind of stuff! 😁
Lubed 9mm won race, but coated grouped better. With jacketed grouping between the two. That's the 124g lee tumble lube bullets. Just worked out a load last weekend for the 300 with the Lee 150 flat nose. Will keep you posted
20 yds distance, coated won group out of glock 19 by 3/4" 10 shot groups. Berry's coated lost by almost 1/2" center to center. What I'm saying is, largest group was 2", and coated was almost a 1" group. (Bench rest). But our velocities results were about the same
Lol! I had a hi point carbine 25-30 years ago and also called it the " planet of the apes gun"! ( original movie) ( they used modified M1 carbines then) It broke the ice with gun snobs at the range. I could drill a hole with it off hand at 25 yards with ranger +p+ and it was very reliable but a bioch to clean. I remember FC's vid and found the same results with hi tech coated bullets.
High Point goes "bang" when you pull the trigger. That's what matters. I've got a $150.00 .380 pistol. Zero failures so far. Besides, it doubles as a club when I run out of ammo. Never be embarrassed. And screw the "gun snobs!" ;-)
I have one of those HiPoints in 9mm.....excellent shooter.....stuck some stupid money in it to make it KOOL ! and because I can! I also bought one the 20rd RedBall mags....works great!
hey gman77gas. .. that's awesome! I'm laughing. ... because the thing is so much fun. it's tempting to go all out! I gotta cheapo BSA red dot and a forward grip as you seen.. It came with 3 mags and a mag holder on the stock! I'm bringing out the cheap gun GEEKS! ; ) still smiling. ....
I like expensive guns and cheap guns that WORK! I have had excellent results with this 9mm HiPoint.....I have the same reddot on mine... I bought this generation HP when it came out for just under $200.
Awesome video Elvis! That was great results! And very consistent. Good job bud. That's kind of what me and the old man were doing when he sent my zinc 45 thru the chrono screen. Lol. This is great info! Something I've been wanting to do. btw nothing wrong with ape gun. Lol. I think they're great. safe shooting ya.
I just did something similar, got a good deal on some 155 grain jacketed bullets .308, powder coated them turned out .311-.312. Loaded them up in 7.62x39, haven't tried them yet but I think they will work out good. Your test was rather surprising.
I have that and use it for .311 and .308 works great. I got some hornady .308 jaketed hp and turned them into .311 haven't tried them yet, but have used the 154 grain tulammo and they work well without excessive penetration.
Three rounds isn't enough to calculate a meaningful SD. But I noticed that the extreme spread of the 300 blackout was 18 with the lubed (not too shabby), 21(ok) with the jacketed and wopping 47 ( kind'a lame) with the powder coated. I wonder how these round would do in side by side accuracy test ???? Is it possible that you might need to reduce slightly with the PC????
Agree with this test. But, I wish I could find a mold that had as gas check for the .45 even though it's not needed, I'd still like it there. Thanks for the post...
Elvis...do you realize that everything went so perfect that . . . you didn't even drop a bullet in the shop! DAT'S WHAT I CALL P E R R R - F E S S I O N E L !
Hey There Charles Irby my friend..... It looked perr fessionel .... The "trick' was sticky fingers, From the lube....... Ha ... If ya can't be it...Look it! : ) BTW. Im still looking at your poll results... Sometimes it takes awhile to figure out what you figure out... Know what I mean, If not, you'll figure it out! : )
Jacketed bullets require more force to engrave the rifling on them, and have a higher coefficient of friction than a properly lubricated lead bullet. Thus, jacketed bullets will, in general, all other things being equal, generate more pressure than lead bullets of the same design and weight. Good video and I know you spent a lot of time putting it together.
It's apples to oranges. The copper jacket allows way faster velocities. The cast lead can be run as low as 200 fps will start to liquify above about 2100 fps and fail completely at 3,000. The standard copper jacketed suffers greatly at 1,000 and can shoot well over 4,000. The painted bullet is larger in diameter and will generate a higher pressure than the sized and lubed bullet. Limes and lemons.
elvis, I like my ape gun a lot--45acp. it just runs, and runs. cast & lubed, cast & powder coated, and jacketed. I do have a a.r. brass catcher on it.(too old to bend over-- "73"). put the dot on , hits on the dot, nuff said.
Why not use 45 caliber 230 cast and 230 grain FMJ? or 158 grain .357 cast bullets with .357 jacketed bullets? You could do flat nose for the cast... same for 44 mag... or 45 Colt or whatever?
I have been casting up the 230gr RN 45 for years and use them in my 1911 and have shot lots of deer with them in my black powder gun with 80gr of powder to push them.
mr elvis. I thought i heard you say , at some point in one of you vids, you dont use Gas checks when you powder coat? True?? Reason i ask is im tooling up to load .22 hornet,at hi vel,so looking at a gas check bullet powder coated. What do you say? Thanks man
The PC bullet and the jacketed bullets are heavier? Wouldn't that cause them to be slower than the lubed bullet? Stands to reason. The bullets are all 165 grains raw from the box. But the PC and Jacket add weight.
Hey Elvis, I dont know if you take requests (haha) but a cool video would be seeing what kind of velocity changes you'd get with one bullet type, seated at 3 different OALs all with the same powder charge. One at a tested optimal seating, then the other two seated out to a longer OAL. You'd have to find three OALs that all cycle, but I wonder since it can change recoil quite a bit, how much of a velocity difference would it make?
Its a hipoint!!! I want one too. They look like fun. Just put tape over the name if it bothers. Good video. I enjoyed it. The one thing I was left wondering was the velocity of uncoated, unlubed lead bullets. Worth shooting once or twice for the knowledge. Pistol velocity probably wouldn't lead noticably after just a couple shots, followed by jacketed to clean the barrel. And there is always that lead cleaning wonder, brass wool. My theory is lack of lube won't reduce velocity much if at all. I could be wrong though. My theory is velocity depends on how hard the bullet is to engrave. Hard to engrave = higher friction for the whole barrel. Maybe. Fun stuff. Later - Dean
Thank you for posting this video it is very Informative and has motivated me to cast an powder coat now I sure hope you post o. TH-cam more well from here in Texas stay safe sir
Great video Elvis. I own a 9mm pistol taken from the same apes. It's a lot of fun, and has always been reliable. (It also has a horrible trigger and weighs about as much a your carbine.) Now you should see if there's any difference in velocities between different powder coat colors.....;)
hey Loads of Bacon.... Yea.. the 9mm is nice too. It seems to like over size bullets for accuracy... Im Use to the crappy trigger.. Velocity between colors! It might be possible to rule out one or two... not sure if it would be conclusive...Easy on the bacon my friend.... scare all the hogs off!!! : )
Great video elvis! Will a cast bullet in general usually take less powder than jacketed to get the same velocity due to jacket hardness compared to the softer lead cast?
hey Paul Campo.... Yep... That's what some of the tests show... That's why we always work up our loads when we make even small changes... They sometimes make a big difference. Very good question. I was excited to see your post. This something that really wasn't talked about. Another thing we would like to know is how fast or slow burning rates effect the results! Thanks for thinking!
Interesting the cast bullet has a fatter front face than the jacketed one. What was the BC on both of them? The mold I got was the Lee TL309-2305R with the boat tail to give my 300 BLK as much BC as I can.
Thanks - that was kinda interesting in attempting to compare bullet surface finish versus velocity differences.. Discovered your videos while investigating powder coating after a long hiatus from bullet casting due to work commitments (exactly as long as the war in Afghanistan from start to my retirement, to be precise). Two comments that you might already be aware of. 1. Good attempt at trying to get identical case capacity behind the seated bullet. You can really fine tune that by progressively seating the bullets in deprimed cases, filling with water, and then weighing. Subtract weight of bullet and case from total weight with bullet seated and filled with water. Would be annoying to be repeatedly doing the fill routine as you screw the seater down, but you will eventually reach proper seating adjustment for two or more different styles of bullets that results in identical case capacity with a seated bullet. 2. One thing you will have a much harder time controlling with different styles of bullets is the bearing length of each style of bullet. I suppose you could lay them on a surface plate and measure some way from there, but no ready fix for that comes to mind.
My best guess is that the jacket is harder to compress, so has higher friction in the rifling. It's hard to tell if the PC has more friction than the lube or not since they trade blows.
hey Psyko Klown. .. yea between the softer lead and the power coat ... I think the powdercoat holds up slightly better as it holds together over a longer period of time in a longer barrel especially. .. fmj on the other hand is going to be a little more trouble cruising through. .. And lube may burn off over distance. .. These are just some thoughts!
Good video Buddy. that was a good subject that people don't think about. Jacked bullets have more resistance going down the barrel than Lead ones. The also cause more ware over time to the internals of your rifling in rifles. Dave.
Hey thorsaxe777... Yep I thinkthats part of it.... the other part I wander is does pc bullets retain higher velocity in longer barrels when lubed bullets burn off? Just a thought.... Thank ya my Friend! Hope all is well!!!
I would like to see the test again but starting with the jacket bullets first. The barrel gets warmer as he shoots. Also do the tests a third time with the lube bullets first.
it seems that the 45acp jacketed bullet is 90% of high velocity in both the carbine and pistol. I wonder if bullet diameter had something to do with it, what do you think?
hey 850doc... if the bullet diameter had anything to do with it the jacketed bullet would have improved velocity in my opinion. Since friction is the culprit..... Just my opinion...I've learned to say that when it comes to the science of ballistics! : )
Difference between the PC and lubed 45 handgun = less than 1% Difference between the jacketed and lubed 45 handgun = 6% Difference between the PC and jacketed 45 carbine = 12% Difference between the PC and lubed 45 carbine = 2% Difference between the PC and lubed 300 blk = less than 2% Difference between the PC and jacketed 300 blk = less than 3%
No I promise it will not hurt to say it. Come on I will say it with you" HIGH POINT" I own one in 9mm and yes they are like riding a moped lots of fun but you don't want you friends to see you on one. Good video keep up the good work.
Nice work. Results kinda surprised me. Pleasant surprise. Don't be embarrassed about the carbine. If it shoots reliably and accurately and is fun as well , run with it. Lot of guys laugh until they shoot one. Some of the new stuff at the Shot Show is not as pretty. Just sayin.
yes l was saying reset. the hi point is a very fun gun, have one in 9mm, yes it shoots 160gr booklets the best love your test go pc the only way for me
hey Timothy Robinson ...yep pc is for me too ... I put a link to a video that Fortune Cookie did on the subject in the top of the comment section. . pretty cool results. . check it out! thanks and happy shooting to ya!
From the American Rifleman, the official publication of the NRA: *Hi-Point Firearms And The Man Behind Them* _by C. Rodney James - Wednesday, March 30, 2016_ www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/3/30/hi-point-firearms-and-the-man-behind-them/ - - - Excerpt from Article - - - Deeb became fascinated with the science of forensic firearm examination, which is how, as an examiner, I met him. “I included design elements in my guns to be of specific use to the forensic community, beginning in 1994,” said Deeb. “We now start with a particular number for each model of pistol. Rifles start with letters that are easily identifiable.” Beyond this, Deeb uses uncommon rifling patterns and makes breech faces that leave readily identifiable markings on fired cartridge cases. He began doing workshops for firearm examiners at the Ass’n of Firearm and Tool Mark Examiners (AFTE) annual training seminar and became a Technical Advisor to AFTE in 2002. Currently, he conducts about 20 tours of his plant a year for firearm examiners. - - - - - - Amazing how little those who reflexively deride Hi-Points actually know about anything like this. Enjoy your "ape gun" as it goes bang every time you pull the trigger for far less money than any other carbine made in America today. Criminals have _no idea_ how these are specifically designed to foil them if they misuse one of these. God Bless America and Free Market Enterprise. :-)
hey Timothy Robinson. .. your the only one that mentioned that. ... That's a big consideration for a test like this. I didn't want to complicat a sorta simple test... I didn't use it as a consideration in the test on purpose. .. The 45 acp I used 4.8 gr of hodgdon 700x. .. For the 300blk. I used 16.0 gr of imr 4198 both Relitvely pretty fast... thanks for bringing this up....
the reason why I ask is because I was told that if you use a slow-burning powder it made big velocity difference but if you used a fast burning powder it would not change quite a bit but you used a fast-burning powder in it changed quite a bit anyway
Elvis - FYI, for your testing of velocities, you really should shoot and calc STD deviations and use at least 10 (min) of each type.... more expensive but will be significantly more valid... just my 2 cents....
yea d Klawbohr... I was trying to narrow it down... Go figure... But your right. more info brings us to more conclusive test results. I have a feeling we will revisit the subject... Do you have any ideas of what the results would be if the test was expanded? clues or thoughts on the subject? Or just like to have seen more of the data?
With a larger sample size you could determine if your results were conclusive. with only 3 samples, statistically any results thou possibly correct, may be simple coincidence. That is why good testing is sooooo expensive. Part of what I do for a living...
Elvis, have you had any problems with powder coated bullets sticking in the barrel of your Glock? I have a Jerico 941 with polygonal rifling (like the Glock) and had 2 bullets get stuck in the barrel. Luckily I was able to avoid a disaster, but I sure don't want to keep pressing my luck. Thanks. Any suggestions?
hey Michael Savage. .. no I haven't. . If that is happening, you need to check the bullet size, neck tension, and definitely the powder and powder charge. .. let me know what ya come up with. . I'm interested to know. ...
bullet size is 401 out of my Lee sizer. I'm thinking I might add a bit more powder. I was using WIN 231, 5.4 grains. Might go up to 5.8 or 6 and see. I've been told you shouldn't use cast lead bullets in a polygonal barrel, but I don't know why. Have you heard this?
elvis ammo I am a eastern KY man I was raised eating squirrel and squirrel gravy just thought it was cool you microphone picked up one squawking. Usually it's a rooster. Love your work.
elvis ammo I love my hi point. it's my doughter favorite to shoot. I have plenty of guns but, I think the cheep ones are the most fun. cause ya ant worried if it gets scratches or anything. ya just have fun shooting.
Stand strong about the ape gun. Apes are way stronger than humans. LOL Even if they use high quality firearms. Seriously was a cool set up for a (cough highpoint) carbine.
![CAMPปลิ้น | EP.83[2/2] ประสบการณ์ขนหัวลุกจากตำนานวงการผี!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/T_kFecQw7Ds/mqdefault.jpg)
Here's a video that Fortune Cookie did on the subject!
th-cam.com/video/gu7UfKITMF8/w-d-xo.html
elvis ammo. I am wondering if you have ever pushed a powder coated bullet up to full velocity 308 win or 3006??
hey Shane Rhodes... I never had any problem pushing them toward the full velocity ... Just look for your accuracy load ... sometimes that happens before ya get there! work your loads up safely as always....
The Lee 155 PC with GC shoots good in 308 at 2350.
+qchemp420 thata a nice bullet! one of my favorites. ... ; )
Ok thanks for the replie guys it is getting me closer to casting all the time just waiting for some funds to get started . oh and what would you recommend for a good 165 gr range bullets ?
You are absolutely the best reloading and powder coating channel by far you have taught me and continue teaching me a lot thanks man for what you i would love for you to start another channel where ever i would pay to watch and so would a lot of others
Your mystery carbine has a really great reputation. Lots of people love them. Nothing to be embarrassed about! I'll be buying one in 9mm pretty soon. Great tests!
Hey Johnny's Reloading Bench! Yea Guilty pleasure! fun and accurate to 100 yrds... The 9mm likes larger bullets......I was just having some fun with the gun snobs! : ) Good to see ya put some screws in the saw horse! .....Nice job.
Oh BTW Wear Safety glasses.. I thought I was brave..I have splashes of lead everywhere....Just want ya hanging around with eyes... : )
Your mystery carbine has my attention, I have a pistol by the same manufacturer in .45 ACP. I ended up with it in a trade before I really knew what it was. I have to say that when I was cleaning the pistol one of the parts went flying across the room and I wasn’t able to find the part. I contacted the manufacturer and they had me call their warranty people who sent me the part I lost plus a few other parts that have been upgraded since my pistol was made! They sent them out to me for free so I’m impressed by their warranty policy!
That pistol does shoot, but damn it is heavy!
Great comparison, I think you made the tests as fair as possible with what you had. Those standard deviations were awesome. Lots of good information man keep them coming!
thanks West Desert Shooter! never seems like so much to it until I get into some testing and realize I could work for days on it! ; ) Thanks for watching!
I appreciate these videos as references for my own bullet and coating episodes in numerous calibers. After chrono graphing comparisons of the Acme brand coated bullet in multiple 9mm pistols, I decided to use my old stash of wheel weights for casting and coating procedure on both 45 acp and 28 spcl.. On initial testing of the Acme brand I discovered an average of 30-35 fps increases of the coated bullet over my X-Treme cupper jacketed and a friends Berry's copper bullets. I cast a batch of 200 gr swc for the 45 acp, loaded with the identical 700X powder, seated at the exact dimensions, 1.245". On a 6 shot average with mixed brass was 26 fps increase for the coated bullet over my X-Treme brand. My sole complication is that the cast, powdered bullets coated with Eastwood light Ford blue color are almost to beautiful to fire-LOL. I am looking forward to casting and coating a batch of 140 gr for my 6.5 x 55 Swedish Mauser build at 2300-2400 fps. Thanks again Elvis, you got me in trouble with the wife, putting off Honey-Dos. Very full of information, thorough.
Great test. Thanks for posting it and don't let this test be your last test.
hey B WAX... yep I will do more of this for sure... thanks for the interest, and thanks for watching!
You did an excellent experiment. You used the scientific method and used it well. Kudos to you!
Thanks MCDS Daddy.... It was my Pleasure... Had fun doing it! Thanks for taking the time to comment....... : )
I love those hi point carbines! They shoot great! Lots of good info here. I'm glad your results almost matched mine. I'm also glad I'm not the only one that thinks about this kind of stuff! 😁
Hey kyle lusk... Yep .. fun stuff! What did you come up with?
Lubed 9mm won race, but coated grouped better. With jacketed grouping between the two.
That's the 124g lee tumble lube bullets.
Just worked out a load last weekend for the 300 with the Lee 150 flat nose.
Will keep you posted
20 yds distance, coated won group out of glock 19 by 3/4" 10 shot groups. Berry's coated lost by almost 1/2" center to center. What I'm saying is, largest group was 2", and coated was almost a 1" group. (Bench rest). But our velocities results were about the same
Good deal thanks for the info with a story kyle lusk!
The amount of bearing surface also comes into play. Great video, BTW
Hey J H (308 Jeff)... Yea ... These were all sized BTW ... Good point! thanks again for watching!
Really cool test Elvis, I am so impressed by pretty much all your videos. Randy from North Carolina.
hey Randy Slabey... Thanks for taking the time to comment from the fine state of North Carolina! : )
Very meticulous study...good information.
Lol! I had a hi point carbine 25-30 years ago and also called it the " planet of the apes gun"! ( original movie) ( they used modified M1 carbines then) It broke the ice with gun snobs at the range. I could drill a hole with it off hand at 25 yards with ranger +p+ and it was very reliable but a bioch to clean. I remember FC's vid and found the same results with hi tech coated bullets.
High Point goes "bang" when you pull the trigger. That's what matters.
I've got a $150.00 .380 pistol. Zero failures so far.
Besides, it doubles as a club when I run out of ammo. Never be embarrassed. And screw the "gun snobs!" ;-)
I have one of those HiPoints in 9mm.....excellent shooter.....stuck some stupid money in it to make it KOOL ! and because I can!
I also bought one the 20rd RedBall mags....works great!
hey gman77gas. .. that's awesome! I'm laughing. ... because the thing is so much fun. it's tempting to go all out! I gotta cheapo BSA red dot and a forward grip as you seen.. It came with 3 mags and a mag holder on the stock! I'm bringing out the cheap gun GEEKS! ; ) still smiling. ....
I like expensive guns and cheap guns that WORK! I have had excellent results with this 9mm HiPoint.....I have the same reddot on mine...
I bought this generation HP when it came out for just under $200.
ELVIS thank you for this video it answered some questions for me .
you welcome bennie838... Glad to help... : )
Hey Elvis. So much info in your chanal. Thanks for the info. Been lloking for this data. Saludos
Im so glad To have ya over here! Saludos... : )
I also looked at FC45 's video.The powdercoating is new for me but it surely looks like it has some real advantages, not just for looking pretty!
And Johnny's reloading bench, the tumble lubed 9mm won the race, but the coated ones had best grouping. Jacketed grouped in between in my tests.
That’s a good carbine! Ive put a lot of rounds through my 9mm and never had one hang up. Great for the money!
Awesome video Elvis! That was great results! And very consistent. Good job bud. That's kind of what me and the old man were doing when he sent my zinc 45 thru the chrono screen. Lol. This is great info! Something I've been wanting to do. btw nothing wrong with ape gun. Lol. I think they're great. safe shooting ya.
I just did something similar, got a good deal on some 155 grain jacketed bullets .308, powder coated them turned out .311-.312. Loaded them up in 7.62x39, haven't tried them yet but I think they will work out good. Your test was rather surprising.
Hey George Reichle... If that's the Lee 155 you'll like it!... yes these tests always surprise... Kinda Cool! : )
I have that and use it for .311 and .308 works great. I got some hornady .308 jaketed hp and turned them into .311 haven't tried them yet, but have used the 154 grain tulammo and they work well without excessive penetration.
Three rounds isn't enough to calculate a meaningful SD. But I noticed that the extreme spread of the 300 blackout was 18 with the lubed (not too shabby), 21(ok) with the jacketed and wopping 47 ( kind'a lame) with the powder coated. I wonder how these round would do in side by side accuracy test ???? Is it possible that you might need to reduce slightly with the PC????
another great and informative video sir! keep em coming!
Thanks preacher biggin!
Hi Point Carbines have a solid reputation. No need to be embarrassed.
Agree with this test. But, I wish I could find a mold that had as gas check for the .45 even though it's not needed, I'd still like it there. Thanks for the post...
Elvis...do you realize that everything went so perfect that . . . you didn't even drop a bullet in the shop!
DAT'S WHAT I CALL P E R R R - F E S S I O N E L !
Hey There Charles Irby my friend..... It looked perr fessionel .... The "trick' was sticky fingers, From the lube....... Ha ... If ya can't be it...Look it! : ) BTW. Im still looking at your poll results... Sometimes it takes awhile to figure out what you figure out... Know what I mean, If not, you'll figure it out! : )
Jacketed bullets require more force to engrave the rifling on them, and have a higher coefficient of friction than a properly lubricated lead bullet. Thus, jacketed bullets will, in general, all other things being equal, generate more pressure than lead bullets of the same design and weight. Good video and I know you spent a lot of time putting it together.
It's apples to oranges. The copper jacket allows way faster velocities. The cast lead can be run as low as 200 fps will start to liquify above about 2100 fps and fail completely at 3,000. The standard copper jacketed suffers greatly at 1,000 and can shoot well over 4,000. The painted bullet is larger in diameter and will generate a higher pressure than the sized and lubed bullet. Limes and lemons.
elvis, I like my ape gun a lot--45acp. it just runs, and runs. cast & lubed, cast & powder coated, and jacketed. I do have a a.r. brass catcher on it.(too old to bend over-- "73"). put the dot on , hits on the dot, nuff said.
Excellent test and video. Please run the same test on accuracy.
Why not use 45 caliber 230 cast and 230 grain FMJ? or 158 grain .357 cast bullets with .357 jacketed bullets? You could do flat nose for the cast... same for 44 mag... or 45 Colt or whatever?
Good information . I think you did a great job. I would like to see the same testing for accuracy.
Hey KennyDude... Yep putting it on the books! : ) Thanks again!
Great video. I have been interested in what the comparisons would be between all three. Well done!
I have been casting up the 230gr RN 45 for years and use them in my 1911 and have shot lots of deer with them in my black powder gun with 80gr of powder to push them.
Cool video. I think your ape carbine is really on "point" but I think i saw those on Battlestar Galactica.
Oh That's good goldenarrow49.... : ) Battle Star... Blast from the past!
mr elvis. I thought i heard you say , at some point in one of you vids, you dont use Gas checks when you powder coat? True??
Reason i ask is im tooling up to load .22 hornet,at hi vel,so looking at a gas check bullet powder coated. What do you say? Thanks man
Thanks 🙏 good info i think the knots on my head must be there to store all this extra knowledge I’m picking up on reloading (. :
How fast do you think a lubed or powder coated bullet can be pushed before too much leading occurs? very interesting video, but expected results.
The PC bullet and the jacketed bullets are heavier? Wouldn't that cause them to be slower than the lubed bullet? Stands to reason. The bullets are all 165 grains raw from the box. But the PC and Jacket add weight.
hey Carpe Diem. ... I picked out bullets that were all within 1 gr. of each other ready to load...
Hey Elvis, I dont know if you take requests (haha) but a cool video would be seeing what kind of velocity changes you'd get with one bullet type, seated at 3 different OALs all with the same powder charge. One at a tested optimal seating, then the other two seated out to a longer OAL. You'd have to find three OALs that all cycle, but I wonder since it can change recoil quite a bit, how much of a velocity difference would it make?
Its a hipoint!!! I want one too. They look like fun. Just put tape over the name if it bothers.
Good video. I enjoyed it. The one thing I was left wondering was the velocity of uncoated, unlubed lead bullets. Worth shooting once or twice for the knowledge. Pistol velocity probably wouldn't lead noticably after just a couple shots, followed by jacketed to clean the barrel. And there is always that lead cleaning wonder, brass wool. My theory is lack of lube won't reduce velocity much if at all. I could be wrong though. My theory is velocity depends on how hard the bullet is to engrave. Hard to engrave = higher friction for the whole barrel. Maybe. Fun stuff.
Later - Dean
Elvis don't be ashamed of that Hi-Point carbine.
Hey Miles Whitener... No shame Just poking some fun for our gun snobs! : ) i love this stupid thing!!! Thanks for stopping by.......
Thank you for posting this video it is very Informative and has motivated me to cast an powder coat now I sure hope you post o. TH-cam more well from here in Texas stay safe sir
Great video Elvis. I own a 9mm pistol taken from the same apes. It's a lot of fun, and has always been reliable. (It also has a horrible trigger and weighs about as much a your carbine.)
Now you should see if there's any difference in velocities between different powder coat colors.....;)
hey Loads of Bacon.... Yea.. the 9mm is nice too. It seems to like over size bullets for accuracy... Im Use to the crappy trigger.. Velocity between colors! It might be possible to rule out one or two... not sure if it would be conclusive...Easy on the bacon my friend.... scare all the hogs off!!! : )
I wouldn't kick that High Point out of bed...oh wait, I said too much!
Great video elvis! Will a cast bullet in general usually take less powder than jacketed to get the same velocity due to jacket hardness compared to the softer lead cast?
hey Paul Campo.... Yep... That's what some of the tests show... That's why we always work up our loads when we make even small changes... They sometimes make a big difference. Very good question. I was excited to see your post. This something that really wasn't talked about. Another thing we would like to know is how fast or slow burning rates effect the results! Thanks for thinking!
God Bless elvis ammo. Excellent video.
Interesting the cast bullet has a fatter front face than the jacketed one.
What was the BC on both of them?
The mold I got was the Lee TL309-2305R with the boat tail to give my 300 BLK as much BC as I can.
I would like to see a target down range of see point of impact and accuracy. I would never load my 45 that low.
Thanks - that was kinda interesting in attempting to compare bullet surface finish versus velocity differences.. Discovered your videos while investigating powder coating after a long hiatus from bullet casting due to work commitments (exactly as long as the war in Afghanistan from start to my retirement, to be precise).
Two comments that you might already be aware of.
1. Good attempt at trying to get identical case capacity behind the seated bullet. You can really fine tune that by progressively seating the bullets in deprimed cases, filling with water, and then weighing. Subtract weight of bullet and case from total weight with bullet seated and filled with water. Would be annoying to be repeatedly doing the fill routine as you screw the seater down, but you will eventually reach proper seating adjustment for two or more different styles of bullets that results in identical case capacity with a seated bullet.
2. One thing you will have a much harder time controlling with different styles of bullets is the bearing length of each style of bullet. I suppose you could lay them on a surface plate and measure some way from there, but no ready fix for that comes to mind.
Bearing lengh can be measured from fired bullets. You just need to recover an intact bullet - eg maybe fired into a barrel of water at a low velocity.
My best guess is that the jacket is harder to compress, so has higher friction in the rifling. It's hard to tell if the PC has more friction than the lube or not since they trade blows.
hey Psyko Klown. .. yea between the softer lead and the power coat ... I think the powdercoat holds up slightly better as it holds together over a longer period of time in a longer barrel especially. .. fmj on the other hand is going to be a little more trouble cruising through. .. And lube may burn off over distance. .. These are just some thoughts!
Lube burning off down a longer barrel vs PC remaining intact makes a lot of sense.
+Psyko Klown yea I was kina getting that vibe... sometimes it takes days for me to form what I think is a conclusion from a test...
Good video Buddy. that was a good subject that people don't think about. Jacked bullets have more resistance going down the barrel than Lead ones. The also cause more ware over time to the internals of your rifling in rifles. Dave.
Hey thorsaxe777... Yep I thinkthats part of it.... the other part I wander is does pc bullets retain higher velocity in longer barrels when lubed bullets burn off? Just a thought.... Thank ya my Friend! Hope all is well!!!
I would like to see the test again but starting with the jacket bullets first. The barrel gets warmer as he shoots. Also do the tests a third time with the lube bullets first.
Hey Elvis, what are you sizing your 30 cal bullets to? Thanks!
Don`t let them give you any grief about that Hi-point, they are cheap ,but they work.
hey Rob Meglaughlin... No problem My Friend.... This is a fun guilty pleasure! thanks for the comment...
Hey Elvis, does the mystery gun only take Glock Mags ?
it seems that the 45acp jacketed bullet is 90% of high velocity in both the carbine and pistol. I wonder if bullet diameter had something to do with it, what do you think?
hey 850doc... if the bullet diameter had anything to do with it the jacketed bullet would have improved velocity in my opinion. Since friction is the culprit..... Just my opinion...I've learned to say that when it comes to the science of ballistics! : )
Difference between the PC and lubed 45 handgun = less than 1%
Difference between the jacketed and lubed 45 handgun = 6%
Difference between the PC and jacketed 45 carbine = 12%
Difference between the PC and lubed 45 carbine = 2%
Difference between the PC and lubed 300 blk = less than 2%
Difference between the PC and jacketed 300 blk = less than 3%
hey prepare2survive. .. I always enjoy your information you provide. .... thanks again my friend! I like your new logo too! ; )
No I promise it will not hurt to say it. Come on I will say it with you" HIGH POINT" I own one in 9mm and yes they are like riding a moped lots of fun but you don't want you friends to see you on one. Good video keep up the good work.
hey Scott Marshall .... I couldn't have said it better! ;.)
Nice testing
thanks again treesablowin.... Good shooten my friend!
Thanks for your efforts, 'splains a lot.
Shoot the high point carbine works! not the nicest but fun to plink with
Nice work. Results kinda surprised me. Pleasant surprise.
Don't be embarrassed about the carbine. If it shoots reliably and accurately and is fun as well , run with it. Lot of guys laugh until they shoot one. Some of the new stuff at the Shot Show is not as pretty. Just sayin.
yes l was saying reset. the hi point is a very fun gun, have one in 9mm, yes it shoots 160gr booklets the best love your test go pc the only way for me
hey Timothy Robinson ...yep pc is for me too ... I put a link to a video that Fortune Cookie did on the subject in the top of the comment section. . pretty cool results. . check it out! thanks and happy shooting to ya!
ATF keeps flying over. 😂😂😂
Are you using gas checks?
From the American Rifleman, the official publication of the NRA:
*Hi-Point Firearms And The Man Behind Them*
_by C. Rodney James - Wednesday, March 30, 2016_
www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/3/30/hi-point-firearms-and-the-man-behind-them/
- - - Excerpt from Article - - -
Deeb became fascinated with the science of forensic firearm examination, which is how, as an examiner, I met him. “I included design elements in my guns to be of specific use to the forensic community, beginning in 1994,” said Deeb. “We now start with a particular number for each model of pistol. Rifles start with letters that are easily identifiable.” Beyond this, Deeb uses uncommon rifling patterns and makes breech faces that leave readily identifiable markings on fired cartridge cases. He began doing workshops for firearm examiners at the Ass’n of Firearm and Tool Mark Examiners (AFTE) annual training seminar and became a Technical Advisor to AFTE in 2002. Currently, he conducts about 20 tours of his plant a year for firearm examiners.
- - - - - -
Amazing how little those who reflexively deride Hi-Points actually know about anything like this. Enjoy your "ape gun" as it goes bang every time you pull the trigger for far less money than any other carbine made in America today. Criminals have _no idea_ how these are specifically designed to foil them if they misuse one of these. God Bless America and Free Market Enterprise. :-)
Thanks for the great article PA John!
Great job, you are awesome
I'm curious to watch burn rate was on your powder fast Medium slow
hey Timothy Robinson. .. your the only one that mentioned that. ... That's a big consideration for a test like this. I didn't want to complicat a sorta simple test... I didn't use it as a consideration in the test on purpose. .. The 45 acp I used 4.8 gr of hodgdon 700x. .. For the 300blk. I used 16.0 gr of imr 4198 both Relitvely pretty fast... thanks for bringing this up....
the reason why I ask is because I was told that if you use a slow-burning powder it made big velocity difference but if you used a fast burning powder it would not change quite a bit but you used a fast-burning powder in it changed quite a bit anyway
Good video
Elvis - FYI, for your testing of velocities, you really should shoot and calc STD deviations and use at least 10 (min) of each type.... more expensive but will be significantly more valid... just my 2 cents....
Your sample size is too narrow....
yea d Klawbohr... I was trying to narrow it down... Go figure... But your right. more info brings us to more conclusive test results. I have a feeling we will revisit the subject... Do you have any ideas of what the results would be if the test was expanded? clues or thoughts on the subject? Or just like to have seen more of the data?
With a larger sample size you could determine if your results were
conclusive. with only 3 samples, statistically any results thou possibly
correct, may be simple coincidence. That is why good testing is sooooo expensive. Part of what I do for a living...
Elvis, have you had any problems with powder coated bullets sticking in the barrel of your Glock? I have a Jerico 941 with polygonal rifling (like the Glock) and had 2 bullets get stuck in the barrel. Luckily I was able to avoid a disaster, but I sure don't want to keep pressing my luck. Thanks. Any suggestions?
hey Michael Savage. .. no I haven't. . If that is happening, you need to check the bullet size, neck tension, and definitely the powder and powder charge. .. let me know what ya come up with. . I'm interested to know. ...
bullet size is 401 out of my Lee sizer. I'm thinking I might add a bit more powder. I was using WIN 231, 5.4 grains. Might go up to 5.8 or 6 and see. I've been told you shouldn't use cast lead bullets in a polygonal barrel, but I don't know why. Have you heard this?
Shoot the Squirrel lol. good video!
now make the same shots for accuracy.
hey vrodrider 1978... Yep sounds like a plan!
see if i can eat a squirrel vrodrider 1978....
elvis ammo I am a eastern KY man I was raised eating squirrel and squirrel gravy just thought it was cool you microphone picked up one squawking. Usually it's a rooster. Love your work.
Thanks vrodrider 1978... me and my nephew ate one about a month or two ago... They are very tasty! Thanks again!
Looks like my Hi Point... :D Still running... :D
Embarrassed? Screw that. What are you, "Hi"? Not all firearms have to be expensive if it goes bang. And you have plenty of guns to be proud of.
hey Thanks M85FSLUVR... Having some fun with all the shhhnobs out there is all... I have lots of fun with the "hi" ? thankyou very much : )
elvis ammo I love my hi point. it's my doughter favorite to shoot. I have plenty of guns but, I think the cheep ones are the most fun. cause ya ant worried if it gets scratches or anything. ya just have fun shooting.
+ordinanceconcernedamerican ... yea they are lots of fun... I can go through a Lotta ammo with this... and smile the whole time! !! ; )
Stand strong about the ape gun. Apes are way stronger than humans. LOL Even if they use high quality firearms. Seriously was a cool set up for a (cough highpoint) carbine.
Hi, how can I contact you?
sweet
I got one in 9mm
Its a hi-point.
Highpoint carbine
When you dont want to say what kind of gun it is it must be a H*******t.
That's right abcdef abcdef... exactly what I say!!!! : )
Eewww. Was that rifle a Hhhh. Hhhhh. Hiiii. I can't even say it. 😁
Yeah it was! The Reloader Dude! Yikes! : )
hi point lol