Agree 100% with this video. When I was pitching, I threw a knuckle curve. I changed the position of my arm to make it move across or down, but never snapped my arm at the end. Never had issues with my arm and the curve was devastating.
Hey guys! Big fan here (the pitcher from Peru). Pls make a video with excercises for pitchers, specially excercises to protect the elbow and the shoulder
This guy is describing a drop curve.. I was both a pitcher and a switch hitter .. right handed horseshoe seam curve balls were the easiest breaking pitch for me to hit .. i went to the opposite field right handed and pulled the chit out of them left handed .. both for extra bases .. in Legion, College and AA ball .. I always used my middle finger on the seam in the horseshoe or on one of the double seams .. I also threw a radical breaking knuckle curve around 65mph .. difficult to control that instant break ..but lots of SO .. great for a 3-2
Great video. As you said there are numerous ways to grip the CB. Any thoughts on the CB grip of Josh Tols? In essence he holds ball between middle and ring finger with thumb totally off the ball. That grip and his arm action result in 3000+RPM on his CB. Thanks
Best curve ball I ever saw was Sandy Koufax (Dodgers) way back in the 60's. He had to retire early though because of elbow problems. Don't know if he threw it wrong but boy nobody could hit it.
From Dr. Mike Marshall Cy Young Winner Kinesiologist drmikemarshall.com I have taught and trained over 150 college and professional baseball pitchers. Not one of these over 150 baseball pitchers have ever: 01. Ruptured their Ulnar Collateral Ligament, 02. Torn the insertion of the Biceps Brachii muscle to the superior lip of the Glenoid Fossa (SLAP tear) or 03. Injured the attachments of the Subscapularis, Supraspinatus, Infraspinatus or Teres Minor muscles (rotator cuff). As Dr. Fleisig wrote in his second sentence: "While the current study provides no direct measurement of injury risk, the biomechanical data do provide shoulder and elbow kinetic parameters." When 'real' researchers do not find direct measurements of injury risk, they do not further speculate on what might happen. To make these suppositions, Dr. Fleisig has to have biomechanically analyzed baseball pitchers that had simular numbers that my baseball pitchers had that at some time after their biomechanical analysis suffered these injuries. That Dr. Fleisig was not able to recognize that, instead of using their Pectoralis Major muscle to horizontally pull their pitching upper arm curvi-linearly forward, my baseball pitchers used their Latissimus Dorsi muscel to vertically drive their pitching upper arm recti-linearly forward shows that Dr. Fleisig does not have the requisite anatomical knowledge to determine the causes of pitching injuries. The still photographs in the four biomechanical analyses that Dr. Fleisig provided clearly shows that my baseball pitchers turn the back of their nearly vertical pitching upper arm to face toward home plate. For thirty plus years, Dr. Fleisig's ineptitude has increased and extended the epidemic of pitching injuries that today's baseball pitchers of all ages suffer. Dr. Andrews reported that the number of youth baseball pitchers rupturing their Ulnar Collateral Ligaments has increased 700 percent. With his recommendations, Dr. Fleisig contributed to the pitching injuries problem. In 1975, at the Southern California AAU Sportsmedicine Seminar in Los Angeles, CA, I presented "Longitudinal Effects of Adolescent Throwing Injuries." With regard to injury-free baseball pitching techniques, to prevent injuries to the pitching elbow, I emphasized 'pitching forearm pronation,' and to prevent injuries to the pitching shoulder, I emphasized 'pitching upper arm inward rotation.' In numerous presentations throughot the remainder of the 1970 decade, I repeatedly explained how to pitch every day without fatigue or injury. Unfortunately, to their detriment, baseball pitchers continued to use the 'traditional' baseball pitching motion. Until 'BASEBALL' makes the adjustments that I recommend, the epidemic of pitching injuries will continue.
Hey very on point response by you, way to address facts, Tom House knows more than Dr. Mike Marshall, and you are an authority on how to throw curveballs without injury by way of making a small adjustment to the standard pitching motion. This is fantastic. You are dismissive of what Mike Marshall says, and so I realize that you and Tom House must be right. Surely your finding will all but eliminate pitching injuries, and your incisive, accurate, and well-researched YT videos will remain as testimony to this most significant achievement .
Good video but 2 each it’s own I learned f/ my brother how 2 throw a CB @ 7years old & threw it H.S. & college but I really learned my craft when I learned the change up devastating pitch every kid needs 2 throw that pitch @ an early age💯💯💯⚾️
good advise kids, don't start throwing this thing too early, wait to about 14 when you're bigger and stronger, and like he says, learn a real good change up, work on your location and different speeds and you'll have success, then work on the breaking balls around high school.
I would throw my slider similar to this, and then slide my fingers down, so that my pointer finger was on the seam for my curve instead of my middle finger. This creates a bigger slower curve ball with a lot of break. Creating a 3rd speed works wonders. It makes the slider look a lot more like the fastball and gets the hitter out in front of the curve. You also get a lot of foolish swings at the curve, because of the difference in speed.
ya me too.. i would hold the same way n throw across my body keeping my wrist from snapping.. my cousin taught me when he was pitching for rutgers uni , cause when i was 16 , 17ish i was throwing a snapping wrist curve and hurting my arm alot but this saved me and added another 6 to 12 inch to curve if i did it correctly, literally had to aim at the batter and get it to curve over the plate
Curves are hard to throw in little league BECAUSE the distance to the plate is too short to allow good movement to develop, it takes a little more distance to really break well.
House has admitted to using anabolic steroids in the 1970s making him one of the earliest players to admit to using performance-enhancing drugs. In an interview with the San Francisco Chronicle, he described his use of steroids as "a failed experiment", although he increased from around 190 pounds to around 220 while using them. He viewed the experience as a failure since the extra muscle did not enhance his substandard 82-MPH fastball, while the drugs contributed to knee problems, eventually necessitating a total of seven operations. He claims to have stopped using them after learning in college classes during the off-season about the potential long-term effects of steroid use.
The one finger I throw does the straight down but it takes years to learn ...hence why imany don't bother to learn it...I don't throw the normal two finger curve I haven't been taught it too much but can throw it
Unfortunately i was taught the twisting wrist curve ball when i was 12. I had one of the nastiest 2 - 8 curveballs in the game. Problem is I got tendinitis in my elbow when I was 13. Now that im 34 and have 3 of my own boys, i will refuse to let them throw the curve till they're 15
Great information Andy! I’ve seen Strom talk about ball release from ring finger. I’ve never seen anyone that can do this in my 20 years of teaching. Have you Andy? Thanks for the information!
Andy Powers can you show a more on using the Pitcher’s Slopes you have in the background right? I’m interested in learning how to make and effectively utilize them from a reliable source!
yeah curveball is definitely a tricky pitch. but once you know what the pitch looks like, to good hitters it's like a freebie i'm 14 and i play babe ruth baseball and that pitch is very common
Vipxrr if you're calling a curveball a freebee, you haven't seen a real one thrown. I bet you wouldn't even stay in the box on your first really nasty one. You'll know when you see it, cause the words "holy s#;t" or "wtf" will fly out of your mouth. I hope it is easy for ya bro, keep playin
When your arm goes back, what is bad about pouring the cup of water out? I learned to do that from one of the Texas Rangers coaches at a baseball camp when I was a kid. I ended up with a little tendinitis in my elbow when I played softball as an adult.
What is your background for baseball. Your experience and connections. I live in a town of 75k with 3 towns combined. We do have t ball to college here. Home of the lcsc warriors naia championship series.
I've been a Division 1 Pitching Coach, Junior College Pitching Coach, High School Head Coach, Associate Scout for the Kansas City Royals, Assistant Director of NTIS/USA Baseball of the South and Southwest and Founder/Owner of The Texas Pitching Institute
@@TexasPitchingInstitute just because someone didn't play in MLB doesn't mean they can't coach. Many times in every sport the best coach's never got to the top level for whatever reason, but transitioned to helping others on their journey. I'm sure you as a coach are more than pleased watching progress in your charges.
I usually throw a slurve more naturally than the regular 12/6 curve My nastiest pitches are my knuckleball and slider I got so many strike out in high school with those 2 pitches
I threw it when I was 12. I literally struck so many people out with it. There was this coach that said that I couldn't throw that in 12u and got super triggered.
Chef Curry Curry at a young age and throwing a curveball without killing ur elbow and making it effective, u can get batters dodging away fr m the plate
So you're aware of the research that a properly thrown curve DOES NOT put any more stress on the arm than any other pitch yet you're still tethered to old school and statistically unsupported belief NOT to throw it before a certain age. You may have a toe in the water but you're still afraid to get wet. Either you trust the data or you don't and you trust your instruction or you don't. The problem isn't about throwing a curve, it's about how MUCH you're throwing the curve which should be around 20-23/24%. Learning how to mix pitches and changing speeds is MUCH more important than over throwing a specialty pitch. My son was 10 when he started throwing a curve in games in addition to a fastball, change, and slider. He pitched his team to the Championship game that year, and about a week and a half before the game, I was out scouting our next opponent as was a coach from the team we'd eventually meet in the Championship game. We got to talking and during the conversation he let slip that he thought my son was throwing a breaking ball "about 80% of the time". I almost busted out laughing because the true number was 22% and that was split between the curve and slider. He was throwing the fastball a little less than 50% of the time and the change about 30-33% yet the coach was under the impression that my son was throwing it "about 80%". We worked VERY hard on pitch selection to leave the impression he was throwing breaking balls more than he was but even in my wildest dreams I never thought someone would think it was that much so I knew we were already in their heads. How do you leave THAT strong of an impression?... you throw it mostly to the other team's 3-4-5 hitters because that's who the coaches are mainly focused on. They're not really paying attention to how their 7-8-9 batters are being pitched. When the middle of the lineup comes up that's who their attention is on because that's who they're expecting to drive in the runs to win the games with. The "formula" was easy... he was allowed 1 breaking pitch per batter through the first 6 batters. He was allowed a second breaking pitch but he had to earn it by getting ahead in the count 0-2 or 1-2. The back end of the lineup 7-12 would be attacked with just fastballs and changes because they were the weak part of the lineup and could be pitched out with just those 2 pitches. At that level, nobody is charting pitches so they weren't able to figure out how we attacked them. Another thing to remember is the arm needs time to rest and repair those micro-tears that occur over a long season. Pitch counts help but many kids play travel ball so 70 pitches on a Tuesday night and another 70 pitches in a weekend tournament is just too many pitches. When the arm is fatigued, every subsequent pitch has the equivalent effect of 3 pitches on a rested arm so damage can and will occur rapidly. As a precaution, we took 3-months off between seasons to allow his arm time enough to recover before we began slowly working our way back towards the upcoming season and we never experienced soreness at all. For anyone interested, here's results of the two studies... American Sports Medicine Institute pdfs.semanticscholar.org/5c50/284b67efe3260febb21e93098a1d5e020572.pdf University of North Carolina commissioned by Little League cdn1.sportngin.com/attachments/document/0069/5524/LearningCurve.pdf
I am aware of such research that states that the CB is no more stressful on the elbow than a FB. The point of the video was to show what I believe to be the most effective and efficient way to throw the CB without putting that added stress onto the elbow. Being tethered to old school beliefs is not the point at all. The point was that kids want to see a pitch move and when they are young and their growth plates are still wide open, the damage that can be done to the elbow area while just trying to make the pitch "break" by throwing the pitch recklessly is irresponsible. So the video is in hopes of giving them the process to throw the pitch without unnecessary stress.
@@TexasPitchingInstitute If the mechanics is what you're promoting, the secret is in the grip. Grip the ball with your fore and middle finger side-by-side resting on and just inside the horseshoe part of the lacing. The fingers should run parallel with the closed or bottom part of the lacing with the outside of your little finger facing the batter. Then mechanically, it's just like throwing a fastball with a pulling down motion at release point. The stronger the "pull" the sharper the teeth on the movement. The rotation of the ball will be a 12-to-6 downward spin causing the pitch to bite down and drop right off the table. Without the pull, the ball will break down naturally, but with the pull, and the stronger the pull, the more the bite and the nastier the movement. Experimenting with the velocity will affect "where" the movement or bite occurs. We were able to get late movement around 12-15 feet out in front of home plate. At that point in the pitch, the batter was already committed to and into his swing which didn't allow for late adjustments to barrel the ball so we got a lot of knee buckling and soft contact against it.
@@TexasPitchingInstitute to his point, studies show it is overuse of the arm (for any type of pitch) that causes damage, not the CB. So why say kids need to wait to throw it? I've seen more kids hurt their elbow throwing fast balls at 12u because a 12u is growing and really shouldn't be throwing much of any type of pitch.
Peach Ringd great job. A good curve is fun and deadly weapon. Just be sure to do it right and if you ever have pain in your elbow, let one of your buddies step in for ya. Heal and live to fight another day
Lelouch Vi. Britannia Ya I wouldn't really recommend it I'm pretty sure I ruined my shoulder and wrist and I'm only 16. It was because I was trying to throw pitches I didn't properly know how to and I would sometimes play center and could/would throw it from the fence to the pitcher or the catcher. Now if I raise my arm above my shoulderand bring it back down it just pops and sounds like it's bone on bone.
Mike Marshall needs to have a conversation with Tom House and then needs to review the 2 commissioned studies from the American Sports Medicine Institute and the University of North Carolina as commissioned by Little League. Links to the studies were provided above.
Yeah Tom House, the genius who Dr. Marshall deconstructs so thoroughly? Hahaha. You just stick to your funded studies paid for by Little League, a business enterprise (e.g., bat licensing) masquerading as a not for profit. You may wish to compare House’s credentials to those of Dr. Marshall, though. As major league pitchers, pitching coaches, and educators it is no contest. Tell me specifically how you and Tom House are correct and Dr. Marshall is wrong. That should be easy for you.
@@alsacrime4806 While reading one of House's books (The Pitching Edge) I came across something that blew me away, it said if thrown correctly, no one pitch puts any more strain on the arm than any other. Well that flew in the face of everything I've ever been taught by all my coaches I've ever had. Then, by a stroke of luck, a mutual acquaintance offered to introduce me to him. When I met him, I asked him about that passage in the book and he said it was true, and that it surprised him as well when he was initially told that by his biomechanist. Then, he invited me to an upcoming seminar he was planning at USC. In a break between sessions, he showed a 3D rendering of what happens to the arm, ligaments, etc. during a pitch and showed me the differences between pitches... there's virtually no difference. That caused me to rethink all that I had been taught, where did the "Don't teach kids to throw a breaking ball before age... " come from? I realized, it was a old wives tale handed down from one coach to another not based on any science or study behind it. Computers weren't around for my coaches so they didn't have that advantage, so where were they getting their data from... there wasn't any data, it was just one thing passed down from one person to another to another to another and so on. House has written about 18 books on pitching, he's generally recognized as America's foremost expert in the area. In fact, he's now branched out to teaching Tom Brady how to throw a football as well as others. Pro athletes are seeking him out to learn the mechanics so that they don't damage their arms. The 2 studies came to the same conclusion... that OVERUSE was the real culprit of injury which makes sense when you think about it. Now-a-days, parents are are paying for pitching coaches, their kids are playing in leagues and on travel ball teams, their forgoing year round spots to specialize in one sport only. The arms are not getting a chance to recover from all the microtears that occur when pitching. Kids used to play year-round sports, when baseball season ended they picked up a basketball or football and played that for a few months which gave the arm time to heal. Then when baseball season started again they'd pick up a baseball again. But that isn't happening today. Today, kids pitch in a league game Wednesday night up to their pitch count. Then, the following weekend pitch in a 2-day tournament again to the maximum pitch count. The issue is... the pitch count is supposed to be for the week. So by pitching in the tournament the following weekend, they're far exceeding the number of pitches they should be throwing to keep their arms in the safe zone. When the arm is fatigued, each pitch equates to 3-pitches thrown from a rested arm so it's easy to calculate the accumulated damage and how quickly damage can occur. 10-pitches when fatigued is equal to 30-pitches when properly rested and with pitch counts up around 70, that weekend tournament equates to about 210-pitches on a rested arm. Add in that kids are not taking breaks and are playing year-round and it's easy enough to figure out where the problem lies. Both those studies came to the same conclusions.
These people start with their conspiracy theories about business enterprise this and big business that and money this and money that ...ugh get a tin foil hat Art Bell. Just tune them out... It's like "oh poor me everybody's picking on me"... except the pseudo adult version.
My left ear really learned a lot from this video
TheNukeMan This guy will tell you that the leading authority on podcast production says in his book that it is the best way.
Audio curveballs
@Alsa Crime, TheNukeMan was saying the Left Channel of the audio is muted in this vid clip. Lol.
Right for me
Same
Hats off to you. First time since my father told me 20 years ago that children shouldn’t be throwing curveballs
Thank you so much this helped a lot , because my coaches need me too throw one!!!
Glad it helped!
Agree 100% with this video. When I was pitching, I threw a knuckle curve. I changed the position of my arm to make it move across or down, but never snapped my arm at the end. Never had issues with my arm and the curve was devastating.
Thank you! All my life believed curve ball was like 3 to 9/9 to 3, not 12 to 6 as you explain. Wow!
Very very clear and easy to understand
I’m a right hander but after listening to this video I can now throw a curveball from the left :)
Hey guys! Big fan here (the pitcher from Peru). Pls make a video with excercises for pitchers, specially excercises to protect the elbow and the shoulder
Need to know about the fastball why almost everyone throws like 95 mph now . How did that happen?
thanks to this vid I almost carried my team using a 12-6 curve thank you very much
99% of these comments are little kids lying about how great their curveball is
Owen Waterman like you
Like u lol
Do u know Christ
This guy is describing a drop curve.. I was both a pitcher and a switch hitter .. right handed horseshoe seam curve balls were the easiest breaking pitch for me to hit .. i went to the opposite field right handed and pulled the chit out of them left handed .. both for extra bases .. in Legion, College and AA ball .. I always used my middle finger on the seam in the horseshoe or on one of the double seams .. I also threw a radical breaking knuckle curve around 65mph .. difficult to control that instant break ..but lots of SO .. great for a 3-2
Nice video it helps a lot!!
Glad it helped!
3:34 thank me later
NoName User, why? i wont thank you because i already watched that part.
I will thank you now
Bailey Smith u smart👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Do u know Christ
@@baileysmith4744 Right! you are genius you are smart you are quicky guy.
love this, im already doing so much better with this pitch
Do u know Christ
@@abro7189 stfu
Ironically this video could have been a podcast episode, for all of the visual instruction imparted.
Another good video, Andy.
I knew my coach was telling me something wrong thank you
Throwing speed to get maximum curve is about 68mph (109 kph).
Great video. As you said there are numerous ways to grip the CB. Any thoughts on the CB grip of Josh Tols? In essence he holds ball between middle and ring finger with thumb totally off the ball. That grip and his arm action result in 3000+RPM on his CB. Thanks
Verrry hard to control that grip! But man can he spin that ball!!
3:15 sounds like the talk lol
Best curve ball I ever saw was Sandy Koufax (Dodgers) way back in the 60's. He had to retire early though because of elbow problems. Don't know if he threw it wrong but boy nobody could hit it.
th-cam.com/video/_Pv3kPVSGpU/w-d-xo.html
I’m a kid and my friend is 8 or 9 and he can throw a sinker a curveball and a 3 Siemer. He won many games he’s fast and good at baseball.
Hi Andy, are you related to Kenny Powers?
Distant Cousin....half brother to Austin
@@TexasPitchingInstitute love it!
@@TexasPitchingInstitute you earned yourself a subscriber with that one!
From Dr. Mike Marshall
Cy Young Winner
Kinesiologist
drmikemarshall.com
I have taught and trained over 150 college and professional baseball pitchers.
Not one of these over 150 baseball pitchers have ever:
01. Ruptured their Ulnar Collateral Ligament,
02. Torn the insertion of the Biceps Brachii muscle to the superior lip of the Glenoid Fossa (SLAP tear) or
03. Injured the attachments of the Subscapularis, Supraspinatus, Infraspinatus or Teres Minor muscles (rotator cuff).
As Dr. Fleisig wrote in his second sentence: "While the current study provides no direct measurement of injury risk, the biomechanical data do provide shoulder and elbow kinetic parameters."
When 'real' researchers do not find direct measurements of injury risk, they do not further speculate on what might happen.
To make these suppositions, Dr. Fleisig has to have biomechanically analyzed baseball pitchers that had simular numbers that my baseball pitchers had that at some time after their biomechanical analysis suffered these injuries.
That Dr. Fleisig was not able to recognize that, instead of using their Pectoralis Major muscle to horizontally pull their pitching upper arm curvi-linearly forward, my baseball pitchers used their Latissimus Dorsi muscel to vertically drive their pitching upper arm recti-linearly forward shows that Dr. Fleisig does not have the requisite anatomical knowledge to determine the causes of pitching injuries.
The still photographs in the four biomechanical analyses that Dr. Fleisig provided clearly shows that my baseball pitchers turn the back of their nearly vertical pitching upper arm to face toward home plate.
For thirty plus years, Dr. Fleisig's ineptitude has increased and extended the epidemic of pitching injuries that today's baseball pitchers of all ages suffer.
Dr. Andrews reported that the number of youth baseball pitchers rupturing their Ulnar Collateral Ligaments has increased 700 percent. With his recommendations, Dr. Fleisig contributed to the pitching injuries problem. In 1975, at the Southern California AAU Sportsmedicine Seminar in Los Angeles, CA, I presented "Longitudinal Effects of Adolescent Throwing Injuries."
With regard to injury-free baseball pitching techniques, to prevent injuries to the pitching elbow, I emphasized 'pitching forearm pronation,' and to prevent injuries to the pitching shoulder, I emphasized 'pitching upper arm inward rotation.'
In numerous presentations throughot the remainder of the 1970 decade, I repeatedly explained how to pitch every day without fatigue or injury.
Unfortunately, to their detriment, baseball pitchers continued to use the 'traditional' baseball pitching motion.
Until 'BASEBALL' makes the adjustments that I recommend, the epidemic of pitching injuries will continue.
"Epidemic" 😂😂 aight dude
Hey very on point response by you, way to address facts, Tom House knows more than Dr. Mike Marshall, and you are an authority on how to throw curveballs without injury by way of making a small adjustment to the standard pitching motion.
This is fantastic.
You are dismissive of what Mike Marshall says, and so I realize that you and Tom House must be right.
Surely your finding will all but eliminate pitching injuries, and your incisive, accurate, and well-researched YT videos will remain as testimony to this most significant achievement .
@@alsacrime4806 who tf is Tom house
Joshua Schmidt Exactly.
Good video but 2 each it’s own I learned f/ my brother how 2 throw a CB @ 7years old & threw it H.S. & college but I really learned my craft when I learned the change up devastating pitch every kid needs 2 throw that pitch @ an early age💯💯💯⚾️
1:14 got me weak as fuck🤣🤣🤣🤣
good advise kids, don't start throwing this thing too early, wait to about 14 when you're bigger and stronger, and like he says, learn a real good change up, work on your location and different speeds and you'll have success, then work on the breaking balls around high school.
I would throw my slider similar to this, and then slide my fingers down, so that my pointer finger was on the seam for my curve instead of my middle finger. This creates a bigger slower curve ball with a lot of break. Creating a 3rd speed works wonders. It makes the slider look a lot more like the fastball and gets the hitter out in front of the curve. You also get a lot of foolish swings at the curve, because of the difference in speed.
ya me too.. i would hold the same way n throw across my body keeping my wrist from snapping.. my cousin taught me when he was pitching for rutgers uni , cause when i was 16 , 17ish i was throwing a snapping wrist curve and hurting my arm alot but this saved me and added another 6 to 12 inch to curve if i did it correctly, literally had to aim at the batter and get it to curve over the plate
Video stats at 3:40.
Curves are hard to throw in little league BECAUSE the distance to the plate is too short to allow good movement to develop, it takes a little more distance to really break well.
We had a pitcher on our team in little league who's ball would break abruptly 2-3 feet in front of the plate. Nobody hit off of him.
Kids are throwing them 45mph, not 85mph. There are several kids throwing nasty curve balls at 50 or less feet in my kid's leagues.
Why did my left ear bud stop working during this video
At 3:30 in I gave up. Start there if you want to get to “how to throw a curve ball.” Maybe you’ll get there.
virginfitness th-cam.com/video/UUgQXJlTSaU/w-d-xo.html
House has admitted to using anabolic steroids in the 1970s making him one of the earliest players to admit to using performance-enhancing drugs. In an interview with the San Francisco Chronicle, he described his use of steroids as "a failed experiment", although he increased from around 190 pounds to around 220 while using them. He viewed the experience as a failure since the extra muscle did not enhance his substandard 82-MPH fastball, while the drugs contributed to knee problems, eventually necessitating a total of seven operations. He claims to have stopped using them after learning in college classes during the off-season about the potential long-term effects of steroid use.
The one finger I throw does the straight down but it takes years to learn ...hence why imany don't bother to learn it...I don't throw the normal two finger curve I haven't been taught it too much but can throw it
Unfortunately i was taught the twisting wrist curve ball when i was 12. I had one of the nastiest 2 - 8 curveballs in the game. Problem is I got tendinitis in my elbow when I was 13.
Now that im 34 and have 3 of my own boys, i will refuse to let them throw the curve till they're 15
Jonmicah Milbourn drmikemarshall.com
4:54 is the key
Thanks
Great information Andy! I’ve seen Strom talk about ball release from ring finger. I’ve never seen anyone that can do this in my 20 years of teaching. Have you Andy? Thanks for the information!
Coach Sal.....yes I have, but there’s a trick to it with the ring finger. If you can do it, it’s nasty. I’ll try to shoot a video on that soon
Andy Powers thanks Coach!
Andy Powers can you show a more on using the Pitcher’s Slopes you have in the background right? I’m interested in learning how to make and effectively utilize them from a reliable source!
Coach Sal
Here you go
th-cam.com/video/UUgQXJlTSaU/w-d-xo.html
yeah curveball is definitely a tricky pitch. but once you know what the pitch looks like, to good hitters it's like a freebie i'm 14 and i play babe ruth baseball and that pitch is very common
Vipxrr if you're calling a curveball a freebee, you haven't seen a real one thrown. I bet you wouldn't even stay in the box on your first really nasty one. You'll know when you see it, cause the words "holy s#;t" or "wtf" will fly out of your mouth. I hope it is easy for ya bro, keep playin
Vipxrr p
When your arm goes back, what is bad about pouring the cup of water out? I learned to do that from one of the Texas Rangers coaches at a baseball camp when I was a kid. I ended up with a little tendinitis in my elbow when I played softball as an adult.
What is your background for baseball. Your experience and connections. I live in a town of 75k with 3 towns combined. We do have t ball to college here. Home of the lcsc warriors naia championship series.
I've been a Division 1 Pitching Coach, Junior College Pitching Coach, High School Head Coach, Associate Scout for the Kansas City Royals, Assistant Director of NTIS/USA Baseball of the South and Southwest and Founder/Owner of The Texas Pitching Institute
@@TexasPitchingInstitute just because someone didn't play in MLB doesn't mean they can't coach. Many times in every sport the best coach's never got to the top level for whatever reason, but transitioned to helping others on their journey.
I'm sure you as a coach are more than pleased watching progress in your charges.
Did subscribe
good job
I think this is the longest this guy has gone without a big wad of chew in his cheek in his entire life.
Step one. Say goodbye to your elbow.
I've never really thought about it that way..... that's deadly hahaha
baseball
I am now deaf in my left ear
What a jagoff
rutgers stadium
I usually throw a slurve more naturally than the regular 12/6 curve
My nastiest pitches are my knuckleball and slider I got so many strike out in high school with those 2 pitches
My forkball and palmball were nasty. Then I developed a screwball to compliment my sinker ball. After that I started using a spitball and bean ball.
Kids swing right threw it I have two different kinds a fast curve that goes up 2 inches and goes down 10 inches and a "12-6" curve that is slow
Js Ballers how old are you
I threw it when I was 12. I literally struck so many people out with it.
There was this coach that said that I couldn't throw that in 12u and got super triggered.
Chef Curry Curry at a young age and throwing a curveball without killing ur elbow and making it effective, u can get batters dodging away fr m the plate
Trevor Bauer teaches his 'pupils' to pronate the arm after releasing the curve
The goat
So you're aware of the research that a properly thrown curve DOES NOT put any more stress on the arm than any other pitch yet you're still tethered to old school and statistically unsupported belief NOT to throw it before a certain age. You may have a toe in the water but you're still afraid to get wet. Either you trust the data or you don't and you trust your instruction or you don't. The problem isn't about throwing a curve, it's about how MUCH you're throwing the curve which should be around 20-23/24%. Learning how to mix pitches and changing speeds is MUCH more important than over throwing a specialty pitch. My son was 10 when he started throwing a curve in games in addition to a fastball, change, and slider. He pitched his team to the Championship game that year, and about a week and a half before the game, I was out scouting our next opponent as was a coach from the team we'd eventually meet in the Championship game. We got to talking and during the conversation he let slip that he thought my son was throwing a breaking ball "about 80% of the time". I almost busted out laughing because the true number was 22% and that was split between the curve and slider. He was throwing the fastball a little less than 50% of the time and the change about 30-33% yet the coach was under the impression that my son was throwing it "about 80%". We worked VERY hard on pitch selection to leave the impression he was throwing breaking balls more than he was but even in my wildest dreams I never thought someone would think it was that much so I knew we were already in their heads. How do you leave THAT strong of an impression?... you throw it mostly to the other team's 3-4-5 hitters because that's who the coaches are mainly focused on. They're not really paying attention to how their 7-8-9 batters are being pitched. When the middle of the lineup comes up that's who their attention is on because that's who they're expecting to drive in the runs to win the games with. The "formula" was easy... he was allowed 1 breaking pitch per batter through the first 6 batters. He was allowed a second breaking pitch but he had to earn it by getting ahead in the count 0-2 or 1-2. The back end of the lineup 7-12 would be attacked with just fastballs and changes because they were the weak part of the lineup and could be pitched out with just those 2 pitches. At that level, nobody is charting pitches so they weren't able to figure out how we attacked them. Another thing to remember is the arm needs time to rest and repair those micro-tears that occur over a long season. Pitch counts help but many kids play travel ball so 70 pitches on a Tuesday night and another 70 pitches in a weekend tournament is just too many pitches. When the arm is fatigued, every subsequent pitch has the equivalent effect of 3 pitches on a rested arm so damage can and will occur rapidly. As a precaution, we took 3-months off between seasons to allow his arm time enough to recover before we began slowly working our way back towards the upcoming season and we never experienced soreness at all.
For anyone interested, here's results of the two studies...
American Sports Medicine Institute
pdfs.semanticscholar.org/5c50/284b67efe3260febb21e93098a1d5e020572.pdf
University of North Carolina commissioned by Little League
cdn1.sportngin.com/attachments/document/0069/5524/LearningCurve.pdf
I am aware of such research that states that the CB is no more stressful on the elbow than a FB. The point of the video was to show what I believe to be the most effective and efficient way to throw the CB without putting that added stress onto the elbow. Being tethered to old school beliefs is not the point at all. The point was that kids want to see a pitch move and when they are young and their growth plates are still wide open, the damage that can be done to the elbow area while just trying to make the pitch "break" by throwing the pitch recklessly is irresponsible. So the video is in hopes of giving them the process to throw the pitch without unnecessary stress.
@@TexasPitchingInstitute If the mechanics is what you're promoting, the secret is in the grip. Grip the ball with your fore and middle finger side-by-side resting on and just inside the horseshoe part of the lacing. The fingers should run parallel with the closed or bottom part of the lacing with the outside of your little finger facing the batter. Then mechanically, it's just like throwing a fastball with a pulling down motion at release point. The stronger the "pull" the sharper the teeth on the movement. The rotation of the ball will be a 12-to-6 downward spin causing the pitch to bite down and drop right off the table. Without the pull, the ball will break down naturally, but with the pull, and the stronger the pull, the more the bite and the nastier the movement. Experimenting with the velocity will affect "where" the movement or bite occurs. We were able to get late movement around 12-15 feet out in front of home plate. At that point in the pitch, the batter was already committed to and into his swing which didn't allow for late adjustments to barrel the ball so we got a lot of knee buckling and soft contact against it.
@@TexasPitchingInstitute to his point, studies show it is overuse of the arm (for any type of pitch) that causes damage, not the CB. So why say kids need to wait to throw it? I've seen more kids hurt their elbow throwing fast balls at 12u because a 12u is growing and really shouldn't be throwing much of any type of pitch.
In 13 should I be throwing curveballs
if your in travel, you basically need some offspeed/curving pitch, but if you play ll or just casually, no its not neccessary
my pitch is the best i bounce or most of the time over the catcher u know im beast!!!
I'll subscribe when you actually release the pitch ,so the movement can be seen !
"run away as fast as you can and find someone else" imm ddead
Are you 7 years old?
I throw screwball. Guess my elbows fucked haha
Heard it a million times from eight different coaches but yeah that's the oldest way to throw a breaking ball
Uncle Charlie
My son is 11 no curve.. he can throw a curve properly, but there is no need.
In a perfect world his name would Austin Powers
That's my cousin
Too much air time. Get to the point 'mumkay!'
I'm 11 and mine is nasty I threw one out of the batters box and it curved in 😀 I'm not bragging just sharing a story have a nice day!😉
Peach Ringd great job. A good curve is fun and deadly weapon. Just be sure to do it right and if you ever have pain in your elbow, let one of your buddies step in for ya. Heal and live to fight another day
And Curve Is Dangerous For Your Age You must stop Throwing Curve But Your good kid Nice That You Know How To throw a Curve
not school
I am 11 and i throw this
Christian Surprenant Im 13 and mine is nasty
Christian Surprenant no one I have faced made contact
I lowered the other team's best kid's batting average by a lot with this pitch
can you kids stop showing off in the internet?
Autistic Guitar no
what but im only 13 but ithink i already capable vof doing it
Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD. Trust me, my elbow agrees that you should wait a little longer.
Lelouch Vi. Britannia Ya I wouldn't really recommend it I'm pretty sure I ruined my shoulder and wrist and I'm only 16. It was because I was trying to throw pitches I didn't properly know how to and I would sometimes play center and could/would throw it from the fence to the pitcher or the catcher. Now if I raise my arm above my shoulderand bring it back down it just pops and sounds like it's bone on bone.
I throw curveballs different anf i strike almost every body
DarkAsh no you don’t.
he's just a little kid bro lol
Um huh, all talk no throw still dont no how to do it
Dr. Mike Marshall totally disagrees with you.
Mike Marshall needs to have a conversation with Tom House and then needs to review the 2 commissioned studies from the American Sports Medicine Institute and the University of North Carolina as commissioned by Little League. Links to the studies were provided above.
Yeah Tom House, the genius who Dr. Marshall deconstructs so thoroughly? Hahaha.
You just stick to your funded studies paid for by Little League, a business enterprise (e.g., bat licensing) masquerading as a not for profit.
You may wish to compare House’s credentials to those of Dr. Marshall, though.
As major league pitchers, pitching coaches, and educators it is no contest.
Tell me specifically how you and Tom House are correct and Dr. Marshall is wrong.
That should be easy for you.
@@alsacrime4806 While reading one of House's books (The Pitching Edge) I came across something that blew me away, it said if thrown correctly, no one pitch puts any more strain on the arm than any other. Well that flew in the face of everything I've ever been taught by all my coaches I've ever had. Then, by a stroke of luck, a mutual acquaintance offered to introduce me to him. When I met him, I asked him about that passage in the book and he said it was true, and that it surprised him as well when he was initially told that by his biomechanist. Then, he invited me to an upcoming seminar he was planning at USC. In a break between sessions, he showed a 3D rendering of what happens to the arm, ligaments, etc. during a pitch and showed me the differences between pitches... there's virtually no difference. That caused me to rethink all that I had been taught, where did the "Don't teach kids to throw a breaking ball before age... " come from? I realized, it was a old wives tale handed down from one coach to another not based on any science or study behind it. Computers weren't around for my coaches so they didn't have that advantage, so where were they getting their data from... there wasn't any data, it was just one thing passed down from one person to another to another to another and so on. House has written about 18 books on pitching, he's generally recognized as America's foremost expert in the area. In fact, he's now branched out to teaching Tom Brady how to throw a football as well as others. Pro athletes are seeking him out to learn the mechanics so that they don't damage their arms.
The 2 studies came to the same conclusion... that OVERUSE was the real culprit of injury which makes sense when you think about it. Now-a-days, parents are are paying for pitching coaches, their kids are playing in leagues and on travel ball teams, their forgoing year round spots to specialize in one sport only. The arms are not getting a chance to recover from all the microtears that occur when pitching. Kids used to play year-round sports, when baseball season ended they picked up a basketball or football and played that for a few months which gave the arm time to heal. Then when baseball season started again they'd pick up a baseball again. But that isn't happening today. Today, kids pitch in a league game Wednesday night up to their pitch count. Then, the following weekend pitch in a 2-day tournament again to the maximum pitch count. The issue is... the pitch count is supposed to be for the week. So by pitching in the tournament the following weekend, they're far exceeding the number of pitches they should be throwing to keep their arms in the safe zone. When the arm is fatigued, each pitch equates to 3-pitches thrown from a rested arm so it's easy to calculate the accumulated damage and how quickly damage can occur. 10-pitches when fatigued is equal to 30-pitches when properly rested and with pitch counts up around 70, that weekend tournament equates to about 210-pitches on a rested arm. Add in that kids are not taking breaks and are playing year-round and it's easy enough to figure out where the problem lies. Both those studies came to the same conclusions.
These people start with their conspiracy theories about business enterprise this and big business that and money this and money that ...ugh get a tin foil hat Art Bell. Just tune them out... It's like "oh poor me everybody's picking on me"... except the pseudo adult version.
Dave White Hey Dave great Billy Joel piano tutorial.
Cool, man.
Good news:
Logorrhea is treatable.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logorrhea_(psychology)
The forearm flyout arm throwing motion kills your body. Don't use this throwing coach imposters' instructions ever.
i dont care that you broke your elbow
Hahahah thinking same. So funny
this baseball are complete complete ball hahahahahaha subrcibe
Are you okay?
did you have a stroke just now?
No he just listened to the video
This is more of theory... he didn't demonstrate the pitch so we aren't sure he knows what he's talking about.
More pitching nonsense.
Sorry big guy, but what your teaching is telegraphing a pitch. When hitters see the angle of your arm thier eyes get big.
baseball, wow throwing a ball and making it do tricks in the air...what a childish and ultimately useless skill that is.....
???