Hi Steve. As always, I enjoy all your videos and ramblings. Hope this comment finds you. I received an exciting gift last week. A very good photographer friend of mine gifted me several things. I can't thank him enough for this. Firstly, is a Simon Omega D3 4x5 Enlarger. I am still in the assembly stage. Missing is the enlarging lens which I am searching for on Ebay. It's a huge Enlarger. I have a Bessler 23c and I can now print 35mm, 120 and 4x5 negatives in my darkroom. Secondly, is a Jobo Autolab 1000 which is an automatic film processor. Put the chemicals in the 6 canisters and put the undeveloped film in a tank. Set dials and press the start button. It automatically adds and drains water and chemicals as needed. It does 35mm, 120 and 4x5 film. I am really excited about all this. Still testing them both out. I should say that I only do B/W now but hope to do color with the JOBO.
That's a pretty amazing setup you now have Edward, that sort of equipment is becoming increasingly rare and expensive. Even a modest Jobo like the CPE2 is demanding a high price so you've struck gold with the 1000. I hope you get everything working soon and find a decent 150mm lens for the Omega.
@@SteveONions Thanks for the reply. I am confused about exactly what I need for the enlarger lens. I can find very little information. I know I need a 150mm, but the only diagram I can find has a cone-shaped lens mount holder, which I assume I need also. Can you elaborate any on this? I'm sure you have worked with many numbers of enlargers. Thanks, if you can.
Got my Graflex out again after a longer pause, and re-visited therefore this video. I can only say that the Jobo spiral is much too fiddly for me. But the Stearman SP 445 is simply great! With Cinestill BW monobath Df96 this should be a great solution for travelling, too. Will give it a try in May...
Thanks Steve, that brought back some distantly fond memories. Nearly half a century ago I enjoined the results I got from 4X5 more than 6X7, 6X6 or 35mm. I used to shoot mostly Tri-x and ektachrome 64, and the 4x5 transparencies were stunning when viewed on a light table through a binocular magnifier, I used a 4x5 viewfinder back, and the images were unlike anything you can experience digitally today. I used to have the color transparencies lab processed but used to do develop the B&W sheets in print trays in a dark room.
good stuff. I bought the Stearman Press tank and it's really nice you just need to squeeze it pretty good when you put the lid on to get it to seal up nice but other than that it works great... best part is loading the sheets into it mimics the same process of loading your film holders. As far as my temp control rig I use a Sous Vide cooker from Anova (Anova Nano) it is wifi controlled through an app or manually on a touch display... I got a standard run of the mill plastic toolbox from the hardware store to use as the water bath reservoir and I just keep all of my chemistry in 1L brown glass kombucha bottles I got on amazon. Total cost for my rig is about 150 usd and it works perfectly I've gotten great results with both E-6 and C-41 development. Just keeping the tank in the bath with the chemistry bottles between inversions keeps the temp regulated nicely. just thought I'd throw that out as an option for those that want temp control but don't want to fork over the bucks for a jobo and the tanks for the system which are indeed becoming more scarce and expensive.
That’s pretty much the sort of setup I used over 30 years ago and I happily developed hundreds of rolls of E6 and C-41 without a fancy processor. If (when) my Jobo breaks I’ll seriously consider doing everything in hand tanks again.
Because it's difficult to find a SP445, I bought a Paterson Mod54 new (70€ bought in UK). Holds 6 sheet of film, however needs nearly 1 ltr. fluid. However I'm very happy with the Mod54, because it's easy to use and I can put into my sous vide bath.
Well done Steve. The SP445 is great for starting with and you can take it into the field and transfer shot sheets into it in order to refill two film holders. I recently purchased 4 ilfachrom tubes and a motor for 20€ a piece for developing 8x10 sheets. These were like the paterson for colour print developing but are great for negatives. Thanks again Steve.
Thanks for the storage tip Phillip, never thought of that one. Some really interesting options out there for cheap developing, I should look around for a few more.
I never tried color film in my Jobo back in the late 80's early 90's but it was great for all my B&W development needs. I sold mine for too little as well!
I have been using the Combi-Plan for a bit now and it works well for a budget system, but does use ~1L of chemistry. I lucked into an OmegaChrome system at a local photo show not long ago, with 8x10, 11x14, and 16x20 tubes and a motor base, which was on the "free" table! The motor base needed a little work to replace the belts (idiotic design with no gentle way to replace them). Since they are no longer in stock anywhere, I went to a local vacuum repair store and found belts that would work, as the originals were rotted/cracked. Being cheap (grin) I am going to try a submersible fish tank heater for temp control when needed for color processing, but may have to get more sophisticated down the road if that doesn't work out well. Great video, Steve, and looking forward to more darkroom videos while we are locked down! Cheers!
Best of luck on finding a fish tank heater to maintain temperature control for color processing in the range of 100 degrees F. Some 40 years ago when I set up my darkroom, I adopted a 6-pack insulated beer cooler as a warning tank and a fish tank heater to manage temperature. I pre-warm the water when I fill the tank for use, and the fish tank heater holds the temp at 105 F. as long as needed. However, About 20 years ago I looked for another heater, just in case my old one burned out. I discovered that you could not find fish tank heaters with an upper range exceeding about 90 F. Apparently some industry change or safety matter - I never determined what happened. Today, I think I'd still look around, but in the alternative I'd use one of the cheaper ($50 US) water bath cooker units now common everywhere. As for me, in the great abandonment of all things Film, where whole darkrooms were left on the curb for trash pick up, I acquired for cheap a semi-commercial grade water bath heater targeted to darkroom use. Overkill in the event, but it solves any future need I may have.
I am using a 1 liter Paterson development tank with MOD54 holder. The loading is a bit cumbersome and danger is to have two frames sitting partially on top of each other if not sitting in the right holder clip as you pointed out in the last loader. Benefit is that up to 6 frames can be developed at once and that I can use the same 1 liter tank for other Paterson reels for 35 mm and medium format films.
I’ve often thought about the Mod54 Martin but been our off by similar observations to your own. I have the Patterson tank in question so it wouldn’t cost much to give one a try.
@@SteveONions best start off using it only with 4 film sheets, two on each side in the center, the other two furthest out in the holder. Middle position is where accidents can occur. Make sure the holder clips don't touch the emulsion side otherwise you will see marks in the photo.
Martin's Analog Photo Channel that’s similar to the Jobo reel Martin, I have done 6 in one go a couple of times but I’ve also had one slip slightly and overlap with another sheet.
I guess Im asking the wrong place but does any of you know a trick to get back into an Instagram account?? I was stupid forgot my account password. I love any assistance you can offer me
@Fernando Joseph I really appreciate your reply. I got to the site on google and im in the hacking process atm. Looks like it's gonna take quite some time so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
Yes I remember using the Jobo lift system to develop E6 back in the early 80's when I did my diploma in photography. I was astonished at the time of how much easier it was to get consistent results. But for the television studios I was apprentice at still used the local professional labs!
Hi Steve, great video, very useful thank you. Quick question, what’s the reference monitor (?) that you have on the wall? Is that for checking colour accuracy?
Hi Ross. That little monitor is mainly for background applications that I want to refer to frequently but hate cluttering the screen. It’s ideal to have sitting there as monitor 2 on my Mac Mini and leaves just enough room underneath for my MacBook Pro.
Morning Steve, thanks for sharing this info, interesting & informative watch. The old gentleman I shoot with sold all his gear and regrets that too... he processes his B&W 120 film using the stearman press. My wife took the strimmer to my head yesterday and got a little crazy with it - I'll be wearing a hat until it grows back..lol. Atb Alan
I have had mine since the early 80s and it is getting worn. Where did you get yours from? I saw one on the bay for £80.00, a bit stiff if you asked me.
Steve O'Nions if you read this, it actually went really poorly. The film ‘ sucked ‘ down too the bottom of the pan, which caused contamination between my FD and my CD. Some more practise perhaps ?
Marcus Davey I should have mentioned this in my video. The orbital I showed has not been ‘modified’ yet. If you look at one of my earlier videos on my 8x10 workflow you can see that by fixing some small plastic screw caps (or similar) to the base of the Orbital the film keeps moving and you get even development. Hope this helps 👍
Steve O'Nions I loved that video. It forced me into purchasing an 8x10. It was a silly mistake, I should have considered it !
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I have to thank you a lot Steve for that roundup of serious alternatives to developing 4x5 in daylight. I was using trays in the dark, but got scratches and sticking film cause of wet fingers, and the taco method left me with antihalation marks. For me the Patterson orbital is really perfect, and I can see some other uses to it, like developing paper in daylight, which is quite interesting!!! Silent Fabrik (Flickr, IG)
Steve, how do you make a second exposure for the slide film in your motorized processing tank? Is the film holder spool made of clear plastic? What kind of light source is recommended these days? How long is the exposure? Thanks for showing the tool! Paul J. Svetlik April 19, 2021
Hello Steve, With Covid it is getting harder and harder to buy equipment: it seems everything is out of stock. Luckily I found a shop where I can order the Stearman Press. In the video you talk about maintaining a constant water temperature. Any tips on how to do this? Thank you for your informative videos.
Hi Maurice. I use a water bath to maintain temperature, just a bowl that holds the jugs and tank. I find the temperature is very stable even on cold days.
@@SteveONions Great... if one can be had. Apparently they're out of production, and scarce on the used equipment market. Great; another piece of the puzzle I need to go searching for.
The stearman looks nice for 4x5, but their price is a bit excessive. I was considering the Mod54 for Paterson tanks, til I found a model that I 3D printed for 15 dollars!! I havent tried it yet, but I'm confident it will work just fine. Thanks for the video!
The simplest method is to develop the sheets in open trays -- the room needs to be dark of course (unless you use an orthochromatic film, or paper), but the results are fine. One step up is to use the trays again, but with the film held in a bracket or 'slosher' which means there is less film handling as one moves the slosher, rather than directly touching the wet film surface. The Jobo style tanks can also be rolled along the edge of a worktop, or rotated manually on some upturned wheels screwed to a homemade bracket -- this is most practical when ambient temperature is about the same as the processing temperature ie. use for b+w developing rather than C41 or E6 (in UK at least).
Hi Steve. Can you help me,please?. I am developing Fomapan 100 4x5 with the Paterson Orbital and the negatives appear with a strong magenta and or green cast. Am I doing something wrong? I am using HC 110 developer and under the color the image appears perfectly normal. Thanks for your help and a cordial greeting from Spain.
That’s an odd problem Justo, first question is ‘has it happened with other films?’ If not then I’d initially mix up fresh chemicals, Dev, stop, fix and try again. If it still happens change the brand and give it another go. If it only happens with the Fomapan you may have a bad batch.
I'm using the SP445 and had the best results putting in only one sheet per film holder. The chemicals seem to be collecting in the pockets of the holders if you put in four sheets, contaminating the next bath.
@@SteveONions I was using a fresh Tetenal C-41 kit at 30°C for some sheets of Ektar 100 and noticed a slight cloudiness overall, as if the fixer didn't work properly, and a few drips of discoloration at the corner of the emulsion. The film was processed the same day it was exposed.
Hi Steve, always good to see your video. I have a question. I shoot film most of the the time in wildlife setting, squirrels and birds. I often wait quite a time before coming back to making prints. I examine the negatives for potential and mark out those that have possibilities. Recently I went to making a set of crop-enlargements. The full size frame is that of a tree stump with a deteriorated base, where the squirrel was posed, and part of the tree continuing up a few feet, ravaged by termites and time. I wanted to make a vertical crop of the tree/squirrel as the subject. I made a reference 8 x 10 full print and the adjusted to make a vertical 11 x 14 crop-enlargement of the tree-squirrel portion. The result was a composition I had imagined. Main issue was that the tree stump and some of the blurred out background have a purple cast or tinge. I tried adjusting colors making ring-arounds and the color was still there. The squirrel had a mostly brownish appearance, with some sprinkles of this ting it seems towards the shadow areas. The photo was taken with a great deal of back light, I don't have exact record of camera setting, other than sot metering I think. The film was Kodak 400 Gold, which I use due to its economy. I know I've gone on and do you think the purple could be the responce of the film/shadows under the high amount of back light. Appreciate your thought.
@@SteveONions Thanks for your response. About the images on each side of this one are of a squirrel subject, but not with the bright back light, just normal greens of the woods and the brown of the squirrel and the trees. I remember when I had done a simple negative conversion with my phone back when I had developed the, the image was much the same; the purple cast on the subject. Other parameter waa the I under exposed the film by one stop(800 iso). I also made a 16 x 20 just for fun...lol Which leads to another question:Can there be image distortion from a 50mm 3.5 lens. To get the 16z20 crop enlargement I had to max out the height and drop the table about a foot 43" height from base, very little room on the focus bellow.
Brent Drafts you may have found the issue Brent, colour negative hates underexposure and even one stop could lead to the purple tint you refer to. On one of my videos I show a similar result from shooting Portra 400 in an automatic compact camera. In terms of distortion from the enlarger lens I find it unlikely that this would be the case, such lenses are highly corrected but if you have another lens available it would be worth comparing the results.
At 1:15 you make a point of saying 'with the emulsion facing out' is that a necessity? Im used to developing 35mm/120 with patterson tank and i never worry about which way the emulsion is as the film is subdued in the chemical all the way around, thanks
It’s more important with certain tanks and holders used for large format. The SP-445 tank would leave some edges underdeveloped if loaded the wrong way whereas for 35mm I always load with the emulsion side facing inwards 🙂
I think I have not seen one of those Orbit processors for about 40 years. My recollection is that they were print processors and were very sensitive to the manner of agitation, with deviation leading to uneven results. Thus, the motor base seems a good idea if you try one. I do like his use of his for 8x10 format processing. Getting even development with 4x5 films looks very problematic and risky, since the loose films will randomly effect and change the flow of the small amount of chemical used. Note that only the new SP tank can be used without continuous agitation. That is fine for color, but may not give the best result with B&W film.
Good stuff. I've just been doing them one at a time initially, straight into a Paterson tank (emulsion in) and rotating it slowly by hand. I think I'm going to go with a SP445 rather than a Paterson spiral.
Hi Steve, Thanks for the video, I have experience developing my roll films but 'm new to 4x5 photography. After watching it I think I would decide between the SP445 or the orbital (if I can ever find one). However I have several questions would like to ask. 1) In terms of pouring chemical in and out, how do you rate between the two model? i.e. in view of ease to use, and flow rate. 2) Also, how big is the orbital in dimension? is it slightly bigger than a 8x10 ? 3) I read someone had problem with the SP445 and result in scratches in their films. I guess that wouldn't happen to the orbital wouldn't it? 4) If you can only have either one of them, which would you personally prefer? Thanks in advance, and stay safe and healthy, Wing
Good questions: 1) The Orbital is easier to drain and fill quickly. 2) The orbital is indeed a bit bigger than 8x10 and quite a lot bigger than the SP-445 3) The early SP-445 had a few issues I believe and they fixed them with a mod (apparently some additional changes have been made in the last year too). The Orbital can mark film if you're not careful, I've resorted to removing the baffles for 8x10 developing and this should work as well with 4x5 too. 4) I'd chose the SP-445 if I only did 4x5 film, if you 8x10 as well it's got to be the Orbital. Hope that helps.
You certainly can Lee, in the 80’s I did all my transparencies in the kitchen sink with a simple water bath and Patterson tank and they still look good today.
In the last 30 or so years, I moved from trays in total darkness (ugh) to an FR daylight tank that was messy and used a lot of chemicals to the Jobo 2523 tank. I do like the look of the SP445 tank, though.
Hi Steve, A question: couldn't quite make it out on the video, but did you remove the baffles from the lid section of your Orbital? I've had some issues with uneven development, as have others, and this is a modification some users recommend that apparently avoids the problem.
Good point Stan. I was finding intermittent problems with a broad overdeveloped line on some negatives so on one of my orbitals I’ve cut the plastic baffles off and so far so good. It also fixed the same problem developing 8x10. When I used to use it for developing RA4 colour paper it was just fine so I assume it’s a problem only with negatives. I’m all but committed to cutting the baffles on my second orbital too.
@@SteveONions Thanks Steve. That sounds like the same problem I’ve been experiencing. I also use the Orbital when making fibre based prints - it helps reduce the build-up of odours in my (very) small darkroom - and like you, have not had any issues. The Orbital also seems quite sensitive to the volume of chemicals used. In my experience, the recommended amounts can also lead to uneven development with 4x5 film; when I tried increasing the volume, the sheets tended to float out of position and/or come into contact with the baffles. Looks like you’re using longer vertical spacers, I guess to avoid this. I’m planning on doing the same, together with removing the baffles, and expect that will solve the issue. I’ve another Orbital as a fail safe (bought before the prices went through the roof).
Steve, I'm interested in purchasing a CPE2 for developing my 35mm and mf mono film. I was wondering if adjustments need to be made to standard development times - given the constant agitation and do Jobo recommend a ball-park reduction in percentage terms, or is it a case of trial and error? Thank you.
That’s a good point Russell, you will need to make some changes in timings. Opinion varies as to how much you need to knock off but I typically use about 20% less time in development.
@@SteveONions Thank you Steve. I have now treated myself to a CPE2, at considerable expense. Hopefully, it'll take some of the tedium out of film processing. Atb.
Alternatively, I seem to remember reading that Jobo recommend a five minute pre-wash in order to maintain 'normal' (standard) film development times. Any pearls of wisdom would be most welcome. Thanks.
Steve O'Nions Way back in the Stone Age of film, I made the jump from 35mm to 4x5. Because of my style of photography my mentor told me to read the Day Books of Weston. I read how he did developed by inspection. At the time I was at school, we ordered stainless hangers-we didn’t have any. So I decided to follow Weston develop by inspection. Even when I briefly turned on the dark, dim, green light I couldn’t see shit. But the worst part, WAS, me trying to develop the way he did by tray and inspection. 1) You shuffle them like cards. 2) Hands in developer, even with a water bath, raise developer temp. 3) Briefly turn on green light to check development state. 4) Emulsion gets very soft, and the corners of each sheet of film acts like a razor and can (and in my case did) scratch the emulsion. 5) Must make sure each sheet gets well covered in developer otherwise the negatives stick together forever; thus losing @ least 2 negatives. Well after trying this 2 times I gave up and waited for hangers. I grew up in Rochester, NY, mecca/ground zero for photography and home to Eastman Kodak. My mentor was Roger Martin, who was mentored by Minor White. Heh, I would like to talk to you more about scanning and printing; because I’ve decided to go back to my film roots. If you’re interested my email: kevinbuja at icloud dot com Cheers
Steve, as usual a great video. Perhaps next time something about metering for the shadows and developing for the highlights. But how does one develop for the highlights?
Very nice and useful overview. But you didn't mention the simplest method of all: tray development! Needs basically no investment, only minimal amount of chemistry, and has great flexibility.
Steve, Thanks for sharing the SP-445 with everyone! One comment, you probably don't need to bother with a water bath. The plastic of the tank is almost 3mm thick and is a great insulator (well, great compared to a steel tank or other really thin plastic tanks.) Details here: shop.stearmanpress.com/blogs/news/you-dont-need-a-water-bath-and-other-heresy Same with our new SP-8x10 tray system: shop.stearmanpress.com/blogs/news/thermal-profile-of-the-sp-8x10 Tim
my sp445 is making a mess of my films... almost all have scratches on the back where the films touch the support =( I reduced the marks by fixing a side of the film under the retaining clips and then inserting the over side but the agitagion is still leaving some mess around... Could you give me any suggestion please? I've also the Paterson MOD 54, but it requires at least 1lt of chemical for 6 film... (with 1lt of chemical the good side is that temperature doesn't decrease easly...) Maybe I can build a develop engine for the agitation of the MOD45 and reduce the chemical required...
Actually, when Paterson sold their Orbital, the color process was not RA-4, but EP-2. RA-4 came only in the early 1990''s, and EP-2 materials were available until the mid 1990's, with RA-4 getting more popular in about 1992-1993.
Stearman Press now makes an 8x10 development tray that does 1 8x10, 2 5x7s or 4 4x5s. For any one who uses multiple formats, it might be worth looking into.
The only problem with these three different tanks is that you have to have them very dry before you load them. If they have even a drop of water the film will stick to the plastic and you will not be able to load the film to the reels, or the square film holder.
It was fine on my end. Sometimes TH-cam video will play and the sync will be off, but I’ve always found that it’s usually some glitch on my end rather than a problem with he video.
There may be in one section, I noticed it once in editing too, the audio was recorded separately but strangely it was in perfect sync with the in camera audio.
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Hi Steve. As always, I enjoy all your videos and ramblings. Hope this comment finds you. I received an exciting gift last week. A very good photographer friend of mine gifted me several things. I can't thank him enough for this. Firstly, is a Simon Omega D3 4x5 Enlarger. I am still in the assembly stage. Missing is the enlarging lens which I am searching for on Ebay. It's a huge Enlarger. I have a Bessler 23c and I can now print 35mm, 120 and 4x5 negatives in my darkroom. Secondly, is a Jobo Autolab 1000 which is an automatic film processor. Put the chemicals in the 6 canisters and put the undeveloped film in a tank. Set dials and press the start button. It automatically adds and drains water and chemicals as needed. It does 35mm, 120 and 4x5 film. I am really excited about all this. Still testing them both out. I should say that I only do B/W now but hope to do color with the JOBO.
That's a pretty amazing setup you now have Edward, that sort of equipment is becoming increasingly rare and expensive. Even a modest Jobo like the CPE2 is demanding a high price so you've struck gold with the 1000.
I hope you get everything working soon and find a decent 150mm lens for the Omega.
@@SteveONions Thanks for the reply. I am confused about exactly what I need for the enlarger lens. I can find very little information. I know I need a 150mm, but the only diagram I can find has a cone-shaped lens mount holder, which I assume I need also. Can you elaborate any on this? I'm sure you have worked with many numbers of enlargers. Thanks, if you can.
Got my Graflex out again after a longer pause, and re-visited therefore this video. I can only say that the Jobo spiral is much too fiddly for me. But the Stearman SP 445 is simply great! With Cinestill BW monobath Df96 this should be a great solution for travelling, too. Will give it a try in May...
Thanks Steve, that brought back some distantly fond memories. Nearly half a century ago I enjoined the results I got from 4X5 more than 6X7, 6X6 or 35mm. I used to shoot mostly Tri-x and ektachrome 64, and the 4x5 transparencies were stunning when viewed on a light table through a binocular magnifier, I used a 4x5 viewfinder back, and the images were unlike anything you can experience digitally today. I used to have the color transparencies lab processed but used to do develop the B&W sheets in print trays in a dark room.
Thanks Jack, a 4x5 slide is a thing of beauty to be sure, nothing matches the look of projected light, even modern screens.
That's what I have been doing during this quarentine... developing, developing! Luis Conde Photography
Great video Steve,many thanks!
good stuff. I bought the Stearman Press tank and it's really nice you just need to squeeze it pretty good when you put the lid on to get it to seal up nice but other than that it works great... best part is loading the sheets into it mimics the same process of loading your film holders. As far as my temp control rig I use a Sous Vide cooker from Anova (Anova Nano) it is wifi controlled through an app or manually on a touch display... I got a standard run of the mill plastic toolbox from the hardware store to use as the water bath reservoir and I just keep all of my chemistry in 1L brown glass kombucha bottles I got on amazon. Total cost for my rig is about 150 usd and it works perfectly I've gotten great results with both E-6 and C-41 development. Just keeping the tank in the bath with the chemistry bottles between inversions keeps the temp regulated nicely. just thought I'd throw that out as an option for those that want temp control but don't want to fork over the bucks for a jobo and the tanks for the system which are indeed becoming more scarce and expensive.
That’s pretty much the sort of setup I used over 30 years ago and I happily developed hundreds of rolls of E6 and C-41 without a fancy processor. If (when) my Jobo breaks I’ll seriously consider doing everything in hand tanks again.
Because it's difficult to find a SP445, I bought a Paterson Mod54 new (70€ bought in UK). Holds 6 sheet of film, however needs nearly 1 ltr. fluid. However I'm very happy with the Mod54, because it's easy to use and I can put into my sous vide bath.
I’ve looked at those but was put off by the amount of chemicals required. Looks like a good way of doing 6 sheets though.
I very much like the videos from Steve. Playing with photo for so many years, I still find some nice and practical ideas in. Thank you, sir.
TH-cam notified me of your new video while I was developing my 35mm rolls in the kitchen, how fitting! :)
It knows too much 😬
Well done Steve. The SP445 is great for starting with and you can take it into the field and transfer shot sheets into it in order to refill two film holders. I recently purchased 4 ilfachrom tubes and a motor for 20€ a piece for developing 8x10 sheets. These were like the paterson for colour print developing but are great for negatives. Thanks again Steve.
Thanks for the storage tip Phillip, never thought of that one. Some really interesting options out there for cheap developing, I should look around for a few more.
That is a handy idea! Thanks.
I never tried color film in my Jobo back in the late 80's early 90's but it was great for all my B&W development needs. I sold mine for too little as well!
It’s a breeze for C-41 and E6, I wish I still had my original one with the lift (and the dozens of reels and drums!).
I have been using the Combi-Plan for a bit now and it works well for a budget system, but does use ~1L of chemistry. I lucked into an OmegaChrome system at a local photo show not long ago, with 8x10, 11x14, and 16x20 tubes and a motor base, which was on the "free" table! The motor base needed a little work to replace the belts (idiotic design with no gentle way to replace them). Since they are no longer in stock anywhere, I went to a local vacuum repair store and found belts that would work, as the originals were rotted/cracked.
Being cheap (grin) I am going to try a submersible fish tank heater for temp control when needed for color processing, but may have to get more sophisticated down the road if that doesn't work out well.
Great video, Steve, and looking forward to more darkroom videos while we are locked down! Cheers!
Blimey, nobody gives away and developing gear for free these days, you got lucky. I think a fish tank heater would be ideal too 👍
Best of luck on finding a fish tank heater to maintain temperature control for color processing in the range of 100 degrees F. Some 40 years ago when I set up my darkroom, I adopted a 6-pack insulated beer cooler as a warning tank and a fish tank heater to manage temperature. I pre-warm the water when I fill the tank for use, and the fish tank heater holds the temp at 105 F. as long as needed. However, About 20 years ago I looked for another heater, just in case my old one burned out. I discovered that you could not find fish tank heaters with an upper range exceeding about 90 F. Apparently some industry change or safety matter - I never determined what happened. Today, I think I'd still look around, but in the alternative I'd use one of the cheaper ($50 US) water bath cooker units now common everywhere. As for me, in the great abandonment of all things Film, where whole darkrooms were left on the curb for trash pick up, I acquired for cheap a semi-commercial grade water bath heater targeted to darkroom use. Overkill in the event, but it solves any future need I may have.
I am using a 1 liter Paterson development tank with MOD54 holder. The loading is a bit cumbersome and danger is to have two frames sitting partially on top of each other if not sitting in the right holder clip as you pointed out in the last loader. Benefit is that up to 6 frames can be developed at once and that I can use the same 1 liter tank for other Paterson reels for 35 mm and medium format films.
I’ve often thought about the Mod54 Martin but been our off by similar observations to your own. I have the Patterson tank in question so it wouldn’t cost much to give one a try.
@@SteveONions best start off using it only with 4 film sheets, two on each side in the center, the other two furthest out in the holder. Middle position is where accidents can occur. Make sure the holder clips don't touch the emulsion side otherwise you will see marks in the photo.
Martin's Analog Photo Channel that’s similar to the Jobo reel Martin, I have done 6 in one go a couple of times but I’ve also had one slip slightly and overlap with another sheet.
This was so helpful and informative! Thanks for posting.
I guess Im asking the wrong place but does any of you know a trick to get back into an Instagram account??
I was stupid forgot my account password. I love any assistance you can offer me
@Kieran Raymond instablaster =)
@Fernando Joseph I really appreciate your reply. I got to the site on google and im in the hacking process atm.
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@Fernando Joseph it worked and I now got access to my account again. I'm so happy!
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@Kieran Raymond Happy to help :)
Thank you for making this
You’re welcome 😊
Yes I remember using the Jobo lift system to develop E6 back in the early 80's when I did my diploma in photography. I was astonished at the time of how much easier it was to get consistent results.
But for the television studios I was apprentice at still used the local professional labs!
I wish I still had the lift Marc, it was so much easier than removing the tank each time.
Hi Steve, great video, very useful thank you. Quick question, what’s the reference monitor (?) that you have on the wall? Is that for checking colour accuracy?
Hi Ross. That little monitor is mainly for background applications that I want to refer to frequently but hate cluttering the screen. It’s ideal to have sitting there as monitor 2 on my Mac Mini and leaves just enough room underneath for my MacBook Pro.
Morning Steve, thanks for sharing this info, interesting & informative watch. The old gentleman I shoot with sold all his gear and regrets that too... he processes his B&W 120 film using the stearman press. My wife took the strimmer to my head yesterday and got a little crazy with it - I'll be wearing a hat until it grows back..lol. Atb Alan
Thanks for the warning Alan, my wife has insisted she do mine soon 😩
As always thanks for the good informative quality video
Thanks Patrick.
Brilliant. I bought an orbital last night to process my first 4x5 shots !
I have had mine since the early 80s and it is getting worn. Where did you get yours from? I saw one on the bay for £80.00, a bit stiff if you asked me.
Have fun Marcus 👍
Steve O'Nions if you read this, it actually went really poorly. The film ‘ sucked ‘ down too the bottom of the pan, which caused contamination between my FD and my CD. Some more practise perhaps ?
Marcus Davey I should have mentioned this in my video. The orbital I showed has not been ‘modified’ yet. If you look at one of my earlier videos on my 8x10 workflow you can see that by fixing some small plastic screw caps (or similar) to the base of the Orbital the film keeps moving and you get even development. Hope this helps 👍
Steve O'Nions I loved that video. It forced me into purchasing an 8x10. It was a silly mistake, I should have considered it !
I have to thank you a lot Steve for that roundup of serious alternatives to developing 4x5 in daylight. I was using trays in the dark, but got scratches and sticking film cause of wet fingers, and the taco method left me with antihalation marks.
For me the Patterson orbital is really perfect, and I can see some other uses to it, like developing paper in daylight, which is quite interesting!!!
Silent Fabrik (Flickr, IG)
Glad you found it useful 👍
Does the SP445 develop evenly? I see it as a bit tight in volume and suppose it cause turbulences.
It’s very even, never had a sheet with a problem.
Steve, how do you make a second exposure for the slide film in your motorized processing tank? Is the film holder spool made of clear plastic? What kind of light source is recommended these days?
How long is the exposure?
Thanks for showing the tool!
Paul J. Svetlik
April 19, 2021
Hi Paul. I think I must have been misleading in my description. I didn’t make a second exposure in the tank 🙂
Hello Steve, With Covid it is getting harder and harder to buy equipment: it seems everything is out of stock. Luckily I found a shop where I can order the Stearman Press. In the video you talk about maintaining a constant water temperature. Any tips on how to do this? Thank you for your informative videos.
Hi Maurice. I use a water bath to maintain temperature, just a bowl that holds the jugs and tank. I find the temperature is very stable even on cold days.
@Steve O'nions is the Paterson tank able to develop 2 7x5 sheet film at once? Thanks in advance Steve.
I’m not sure to be honest, I know there’s an insert for 4x5 film but I’ve not heard of a 5x7 version.
@@SteveONions thank you
Will any of these handle the oddball Graflex 3.25" by 4.25" film size? Can the Patterson tray be used for stand processin
I’m really not sure Joseph but given how the Orbital works I’m sure you could adapt it to suit anything up to 8x10.
@@SteveONions Great... if one can be had. Apparently they're out of production, and scarce on the used equipment market. Great; another piece of the puzzle I need to go searching for.
The stearman looks nice for 4x5, but their price is a bit excessive. I was considering the Mod54 for Paterson tanks, til I found a model that I 3D printed for 15 dollars!! I havent tried it yet, but I'm confident it will work just fine. Thanks for the video!
Sounds promising.
The simplest method is to develop the sheets in open trays -- the room needs to be dark of course (unless you use an orthochromatic film, or paper), but the results are fine. One step up is to use the trays again, but with the film held in a bracket or 'slosher' which means there is less film handling as one moves the slosher, rather than directly touching the wet film surface. The Jobo style tanks can also be rolled along the edge of a worktop, or rotated manually on some upturned wheels screwed to a homemade bracket -- this is most practical when ambient temperature is about the same as the processing temperature ie. use for b+w developing rather than C41 or E6 (in UK at least).
Biggest problem in the UK is temperature although it was 20 degrees today 😀. My darkroom isn’t quite ‘film safe’ sadly so I’ll stick with the tanks.
A big thank you Steve!
You’re welcome Simeon.
Hi Steve. Can you help me,please?. I am developing Fomapan 100 4x5 with the Paterson Orbital and the negatives appear with a strong magenta and or green cast. Am I doing something wrong? I am using HC 110 developer and under the color the image appears perfectly normal. Thanks for your help and a cordial greeting from Spain.
That’s an odd problem Justo, first question is ‘has it happened with other films?’
If not then I’d initially mix up fresh chemicals, Dev, stop, fix and try again. If it still happens change the brand and give it another go.
If it only happens with the Fomapan you may have a bad batch.
I'm using the SP445 and had the best results putting in only one sheet per film holder. The chemicals seem to be collecting in the pockets of the holders if you put in four sheets, contaminating the next bath.
Interesting, what developer were you using and how did the problem show itself in the finished sheets?
@@SteveONions I was using a fresh Tetenal C-41 kit at 30°C for some sheets of Ektar 100 and noticed a slight cloudiness overall, as if the fixer didn't work properly, and a few drips of discoloration at the corner of the emulsion. The film was processed the same day it was exposed.
Hi Steve, always good to see your video. I have a question. I shoot film most of the the time in wildlife setting, squirrels and birds. I often wait quite a time before coming back to making prints. I examine the negatives for potential and mark out those that have possibilities. Recently I went to making a set of crop-enlargements. The full size frame is that of a tree stump with a deteriorated base, where the squirrel was posed, and part of the tree continuing up a few feet, ravaged by termites and time. I wanted to make a vertical crop of the tree/squirrel as the subject. I made a reference 8 x 10 full print and the adjusted to make a vertical 11 x 14 crop-enlargement of the tree-squirrel portion. The result was a composition I had imagined. Main issue was that the tree stump and some of the blurred out background have a purple cast or tinge. I tried adjusting colors making ring-arounds and the color was still there. The squirrel had a mostly brownish appearance, with some sprinkles of this ting it seems towards the shadow areas. The photo was taken with a great deal of back light, I don't have exact record of camera setting, other than sot metering I think. The film was Kodak 400 Gold, which I use due to its economy. I know I've gone on and do you think the purple could be the responce of the film/shadows under the high amount of back light. Appreciate your thought.
To be clear the purple cast was in the 8 x 10 and the 11 x14.
That’s a tricky one Brent. Did any of the other images on the roll exhibit the issue and can it be tied down to a particular lens?
@@SteveONions Thanks for your response. About the images on each side of this one are of a squirrel subject, but not with the bright back light, just normal greens of the woods and the brown of the squirrel and the trees. I remember when I had done a simple negative conversion with my phone back when I had developed the, the image was much the same; the purple cast on the subject. Other parameter waa the I under exposed the film by one stop(800 iso). I also made a 16 x 20 just for fun...lol Which leads to another question:Can there be image distortion from a 50mm 3.5 lens. To get the 16z20 crop enlargement I had to max out the height and drop the table about a foot 43" height from base, very little room on the focus bellow.
@@SteveONions The lens I usually us is my Canon 400mm L FD 2.8 and sometime combinations of 1.4 and 2.0x teleconverters.
Brent Drafts you may have found the issue Brent, colour negative hates underexposure and even one stop could lead to the purple tint you refer to. On one of my videos I show a similar result from shooting Portra 400 in an automatic compact camera.
In terms of distortion from the enlarger lens I find it unlikely that this would be the case, such lenses are highly corrected but if you have another lens available it would be worth comparing the results.
Hi Steve Do you have any problems with leakage from the Stearman Press 445 tank?
I’ve had no issues Tony, typically I agitate every minute fairly gently.
@@SteveONions Thanks Steve Ive just ordered one. I used to develop in trays but I don't have the darkroom space anymore. Thanks for all your videos
Great Steve, I have Nikon FE so different but I have never developed myself. What do you do with the used chemicals?
I keep them in big plastic containers and take them to the recycling centre Paul.
@@SteveONions Thanks Steve
I have both the Jobo (£50.00) and the Stearman Press and I find the latter to be much easier to use.
Agree very much. No more to say.
At 1:15 you make a point of saying 'with the emulsion facing out' is that a necessity? Im used to developing 35mm/120 with patterson tank and i never worry about which way the emulsion is as the film is subdued in the chemical all the way around, thanks
It’s more important with certain tanks and holders used for large format. The SP-445 tank would leave some edges underdeveloped if loaded the wrong way whereas for 35mm I always load with the emulsion side facing inwards 🙂
I think I have not seen one of those Orbit processors for about 40 years. My recollection is that they were print processors and were very sensitive to the manner of agitation, with deviation leading to uneven results. Thus, the motor base seems a good idea if you try one. I do like his use of his for 8x10 format processing. Getting even development with 4x5 films looks very problematic and risky, since the loose films will randomly effect and change the flow of the small amount of chemical used. Note that only the new SP tank can be used without continuous agitation. That is fine for color, but may not give the best result with B&W film.
I used to make colour prints in the Orbital but it was tricky and agitation isn’t as even as it should be.
Good stuff.
I've just been doing them one at a time initially, straight into a Paterson tank (emulsion in) and rotating it slowly by hand.
I think I'm going to go with a SP445 rather than a Paterson spiral.
It’s an excellent tank Steffen 👍
@@SteveONions My SP445 leaked all the time. I hated the damn thing. Sold it very quickly.
Hi Steve,
Thanks for the video, I have experience developing my roll films but 'm new to 4x5 photography. After watching it I think I would decide between the SP445 or the orbital (if I can ever find one). However I have several questions would like to ask.
1) In terms of pouring chemical in and out, how do you rate between the two model? i.e. in view of ease to use, and flow rate.
2) Also, how big is the orbital in dimension? is it slightly bigger than a 8x10 ?
3) I read someone had problem with the SP445 and result in scratches in their films. I guess that wouldn't happen to the orbital wouldn't it?
4) If you can only have either one of them, which would you personally prefer?
Thanks in advance, and stay safe and healthy,
Wing
Good questions:
1) The Orbital is easier to drain and fill quickly.
2) The orbital is indeed a bit bigger than 8x10 and quite a lot bigger than the SP-445
3) The early SP-445 had a few issues I believe and they fixed them with a mod (apparently some additional changes have been made in the last year too). The Orbital can mark film if you're not careful, I've resorted to removing the baffles for 8x10 developing and this should work as well with 4x5 too.
4) I'd chose the SP-445 if I only did 4x5 film, if you 8x10 as well it's got to be the Orbital.
Hope that helps.
Thanks Steve,
Since I'm not jumping to 8x10, I would take your advice to get SP445
Cheers
Great video Steve. Can you use this for transparency film or just negs ?
You certainly can Lee, in the 80’s I did all my transparencies in the kitchen sink with a simple water bath and Patterson tank and they still look good today.
Steve O'Nions Mmm now that’s got me thinking. Would save me a fortune in lab costs !
In the last 30 or so years, I moved from trays in total darkness (ugh) to an FR daylight tank that was messy and used a lot of chemicals to the Jobo 2523 tank. I do like the look of the SP445 tank, though.
The 445 is excellent Andy and I’ve not had a bad sheet from it yet.
any advice for 2x3 sheet for my Graflex ?
Sorry, I’ve never used that format.
Hi Steve, A question: couldn't quite make it out on the video, but did you remove the baffles from the lid section of your Orbital? I've had some issues with uneven development, as have others, and this is a modification some users recommend that apparently avoids the problem.
Good point Stan. I was finding intermittent problems with a broad overdeveloped line on some negatives so on one of my orbitals I’ve cut the plastic baffles off and so far so good. It also fixed the same problem developing 8x10. When I used to use it for developing RA4 colour paper it was just fine so I assume it’s a problem only with negatives. I’m all but committed to cutting the baffles on my second orbital too.
@@SteveONions Thanks Steve. That sounds like the same problem I’ve been experiencing. I also use the Orbital when making fibre based prints - it helps reduce the build-up of odours in my (very) small darkroom - and like you, have not had any issues. The Orbital also seems quite sensitive to the volume of chemicals used. In my experience, the recommended amounts can also lead to uneven development with 4x5 film; when I tried increasing the volume, the sheets tended to float out of position and/or come into contact with the baffles. Looks like you’re using longer vertical spacers, I guess to avoid this. I’m planning on doing the same, together with removing the baffles, and expect that will solve the issue. I’ve another Orbital as a fail safe (bought before the prices went through the roof).
Steve, I'm interested in purchasing a CPE2 for developing my 35mm and mf mono film. I was wondering if adjustments need to be made to standard development times - given the constant agitation and do Jobo recommend a ball-park reduction in percentage terms, or is it a case of trial and error? Thank you.
That’s a good point Russell, you will need to make some changes in timings. Opinion varies as to how much you need to knock off but I typically use about 20% less time in development.
@@SteveONions Thank you Steve. I have now treated myself to a CPE2, at considerable expense. Hopefully, it'll take some of the tedium out of film processing. Atb.
Alternatively, I seem to remember reading that Jobo recommend a five minute pre-wash in order to maintain 'normal' (standard) film development times. Any pearls of wisdom would be most welcome. Thanks.
Have you ever tried tray development and develop by inspection?
I haven't Kevin, it's probably a good alternative for 8x10's.
Steve O'Nions Way back in the Stone Age of film, I made the jump from 35mm to 4x5. Because of my style of photography my mentor told me to read the Day Books of Weston. I read how he did developed by inspection. At the time I was at school, we ordered stainless hangers-we didn’t have any. So I decided to follow Weston develop by inspection. Even when I briefly turned on the dark, dim, green light I couldn’t see shit. But the worst part, WAS, me trying to develop the way he did by tray and inspection.
1) You shuffle them like cards.
2) Hands in developer, even with a water bath, raise developer temp.
3) Briefly turn on green light to check development state.
4) Emulsion gets very soft, and the corners of each sheet of film acts like a
razor and can (and in my case did) scratch the emulsion.
5) Must make sure each sheet gets well covered in developer otherwise the
negatives stick together forever; thus losing @ least 2 negatives.
Well after trying this 2 times I gave up and waited for hangers.
I grew up in Rochester, NY, mecca/ground zero for photography and home to Eastman Kodak. My mentor was Roger Martin, who was mentored
by Minor White.
Heh, I would like to talk to you more about scanning and printing; because I’ve decided to go back to my film roots. If you’re interested my
email: kevinbuja at icloud dot com
Cheers
I have a Patterson tank with the MOD54. It holds 6 sheets too but I have only ever done 4 too.
Those middle sheets are just too close for comfort John, one slip could ruin a few images.
Steve, as usual a great video. Perhaps next time something about metering for the shadows and developing for the highlights. But how does one develop for the highlights?
That’s an easy one Patrick, cut back you developing time by about 25% for every stop.
Very nice and useful overview. But you didn't mention the simplest method of all: tray development! Needs basically no investment, only minimal amount of chemistry, and has great flexibility.
Very true Marco but I’d probably get the sheets stuck together or scratch the emulsion 🙂
Wow... Paterson seems a genial tank. Jobs was the best but the prices on eBay are crazy.
Jobo prices are silly, back in 2012 I sold my whole setup for £80, CPE2, lift and a stack of tanks and reels.
Do you use the 2 inserts that are supposed to stop the 4X5 sheets from moving in the Jobo tank?
I don’t actually and providing I’m careful in handling the tank they all stay in place.
@@SteveONions Thanks, mine keep falling out as they do not seem to fit properly, I will try your 4 sheet method.
Thanks!!
Steve,
Thanks for sharing the SP-445 with everyone!
One comment, you probably don't need to bother with a water bath. The plastic of the tank is almost 3mm thick and is a great insulator (well, great compared to a steel tank or other really thin plastic tanks.) Details here: shop.stearmanpress.com/blogs/news/you-dont-need-a-water-bath-and-other-heresy
Same with our new SP-8x10 tray system: shop.stearmanpress.com/blogs/news/thermal-profile-of-the-sp-8x10
Tim
Good point Tim, must monitor the temperature through the cycle next time 👍
I used to have a rotary processor. I sold it along with all my wet processing kit years ago. I wish I still had it.
Same story for me sadly 😩
GooooooooooD Job
my sp445 is making a mess of my films... almost all have scratches on the back where the films touch the support =(
I reduced the marks by fixing a side of the film under the retaining clips and then inserting the over side but the agitagion is still leaving some mess around...
Could you give me any suggestion please?
I've also the Paterson MOD 54, but it requires at least 1lt of chemical for 6 film... (with 1lt of chemical the good side is that temperature doesn't decrease easly...)
Maybe I can build a develop engine for the agitation of the MOD45 and reduce the chemical required...
Interesting problem Jacopo, what film are you having the issue with and have you tried any others in the 445?
Actually, when Paterson sold their Orbital, the color process was not RA-4, but EP-2. RA-4 came only in the early 1990''s, and EP-2 materials were available until the mid 1990's, with RA-4 getting more popular in about 1992-1993.
Thanks for the additional information 👍
I used Kodak deep tanks years ago for B&W with a heated base,
I’ve never seen those John, how much chemistry did they hold?
Stearman Press now makes an 8x10 development tray that does 1 8x10, 2 5x7s or 4 4x5s. For any one who uses multiple formats, it might be worth looking into.
It does look good Jim but I was sad when they announced the design had changed from two sheets to one.
Very interesting, would love a video on how you develop e6 too!
Sadly I do very little e6 now and the chemicals aren’t sold in small packs like they were years ago 😕
Is the film ok after manhandling the film up the guides?
It’s absolutely fine, the contact points are very small and it’s easy to load the holders.
Betya you could use a sous vide cooker to maintain the water bath.
that is what I do- using the sp445 - and its handy to bring the chemicals up to temp first
@@wetdogdryflyphotography I wonder if we could make a rotary processor from an Arduino and a motor.
Yes, lots of options for a heated water bath 👍
Haha! Covid hair. I had my hair cut for the first time in three years the other day.
I like the Stearman Press tank for its consistent results and ease of use. The 8x10 version is proving, with a little practice, to be just as good.
That’s good to hear Bernard, at least there are still a few practical options for developing 8x10.
1:02 what is it?
The only problem with these three different tanks is that you have to have them very dry before you load them. If they have even a drop of water the film will stick to the plastic and you will not be able to load the film to the reels, or the square film holder.
Very true, I make sure they are totally dry.
surely in the UK it 5 x 4 not the other way around...always was when I were a lad! (91 yrs old!!)🤣🤣
I’ve always said 4x5 but then again I was schooled in large format by reading Ansel Adams books 😊
Is it just me or is there some audio de-sync in this one?
It was fine on my end. Sometimes TH-cam video will play and the sync will be off, but I’ve always found that it’s usually some glitch on my end rather than a problem with he video.
There may be in one section, I noticed it once in editing too, the audio was recorded separately but strangely it was in perfect sync with the in camera audio.