The prices Apple charges to upgrade RAM and SSD space is insane when you consider what it costs for a PCIe gen 5 M.2 and high quality DDR5. The markup they have is outrageous
TBF they’ve been doing that since Steve Jobs came back to the company way back when. The overwhelming advice before they started soldering everything down was "buy the base model and upgrade the RAM and storage as you need it by yourself."
The storage price upgrades are sadly quite an industry standard tho... most others aren't really that much cheaper when you wanna upgrade frm 512GB to 1-2TB. And when it comes to the 4 and 8TB models, Apple can basically dictate any price they want because there's no other manufacturer giving you such huge storage options. But the RAM upgrades yeah, they're ridiculous. Especially from 8 to 16GB. $200 for a fu... 8GB more.
@@Raja995mh33 Indeed, just look at the Microsoft Surface Laptop and Samsung Galaxy book upgrade costs. £200 just for 8GB to 16GB RAM, or 256GB to 512GB SSD. It's not just Apple.
Apple are such a scummy company - their greed means that they want full and absolute control so that they can leverage as much money from the consumer as is humanly possible. Sadly the Apple Cult still buys their over-priced, non-environmentally friendly products, so they share the blame for Apple's predatory practices. All it would take is for most Apple buyers to refuse to buy Apple's products until they mended their ways, but we all know that's highly unlikely to happen.
@@AnonymousOG he never said he was. And you can enjoy or hate the product and still be critical. I love apple products, but also understand the frustrations that come with it.
There's nothing impressive here, they're selling you a mobile phone so that's scaled to a PC level. Mobile phones have been doing the unified memory thing for years. We'll see how much ahead apple is when Intel and AMD come up with ARM processors.
That, and mandate that storage be replaceable alongside batteries. Serviceable RAM would be nice too, but while I grumble about it being soldered, I can live with it in a world where storage is replaceable, since the latter has a limited write-life.
4/10 is incredibly generous considering all the drawbacks and hinderance to repair. At this point the connectors are only here for the assembly process....
I just bought 32GB of DDR5 5600MT/s SODIMM for my laptop for less than $100. It boggles my mind that the upgrade ontop of the already included 8GB costs $200 alone. $200 FOR 8GB OF RAM?!?! IS THIS 2007??
it's apple's proprietary ideology of money earning ✨ both RAM and SSD are sensitive parts if they go wrong, especially SSD which has its limited lifespan because of having to both read and write for many and many times, but being soldered so if SSD fails does the whole laptop also get affected, because apple solders everything into mainboard of macs. you can say same thing about RAM too despite having longer lifespan than SSD as it works differently, and that's why mac sales from skyrocketing thanks to first M chip to downfall nowadays because of this along with apple's counterrepair tactics
I bought 32GB DDR4-2400 for a friend's laptop on the used market for £40. Yes, £40. And I could have got 32GB DDR4-2666 today for £40 also. Even when I bought it a couple of years ago for my HP OMEN (with higher RAM prices), I could still get 32GB DDR4-2666 for under £100.
@@TheSpotify95 It seems like Apple doesn't understand that traditionally capacity goes up and prices come down over time. Or at least they use that to make their margins even larger as time goes on lol
The company makes more money when you have to upgrade half way through a system's life span. I already know I'm going to have to upgrade for more storage and more RAM this year, and I got my M3 Pro last month. Thankfully it's a work provided computer so I'm at least not shelling out an extra $2700-3500 of my own money, I'll just be biting the bullet for the first time.
This device at most should get a 2 / 10, not a 3 / 10 because of all of the software locks. And soldering on SSDs should cap any product bigger than a smartphone to no more than a 2 / 10.
The European Union should force Apple to have not only replaceable parts, but the bare minimum of replaceable SSD's and expandable memory as well as an easily replaceable battery.
The RAM part will probably never happen given Apple will say the RAM being on their SoC is vital, whether that’s even remotely true or not is debatable. The storage though, yeah there’s no reason for it to be soldered and non-replaceable.
@@johnmoore1495 There are good reasons to have it on the SOC, but there is nothing preventing them from adding another slot where you can put more, albeit slower ram.
I think this is one of the first times an Ifixit engineer has BLEEPED at a teardown product! Also, great explanation on why 8GB RAM is not good enough for a "professional laptop". The base model should have been 16GB, and upgrading the RAM costs way way more than on any Windows machine because you can't upgrade soldered components. I managed to buy a 128GB DDR4-3200 kit for my gaming PC for £240. How much would it cost to get 128GB on a Macbook Pro? Is 128GB even an option on a Macbook Pro?!
16GB minimum was the base standard 10_ years ago. There isn't really much explanation needed in profe3ssional industries to avoid something with standard 8GBs in 2023. If you're buying for a company and you're that naive you simply ned to let someone else spec equipment out for you.
That’s why you guys have options you can explore the PC market for your upgradable laptops. personally, I like to stick with quality and reliability so I’m with Apple
Simple answer is don't buy these. These are e-waste in the making. Once SSD dies you are screwed. If anything on the motherboard dies you can only hope somebody is able to fix it or your data are gone. 8GB of RAM on PRO machine is a joke. I disagree that Apple designed themselves into a corner. They designed that on purpose so they can sell more of expensive machines and cloud subscriptions.
Seriously? 4/10 repairability on a machine whose parts you can't repair without Apple's permission? Come on, iFixit, you're better than this. That score is at least quadruple what Apple deserves.
One thing you need to understand about the MacOS Memory Manager: it's super aggressive about keeping things in Memory. Other Ones might start evicting Memory Pages at a much lower Memory Occupancy percentage. So if you've ended up accessing a lot of Shared Library Pages, they'll continue to fill up Memory till the OS really needs to free up Pages for new Content. And of course, if the freed Memory Pages are read-only Shared Library Pages, that means a simple reuse rather than having to write Modified Read-Write Pages out to Swap. So, the bottom line is that seeing 7GB of Memory being in use very quickly isn't really a problem. What you really want to look at is the amount of Swap that's being used.
Exactly. This video is misleading. 8GB is too little, but the numbers he was reporting would only matter if he were using multiple massive programs like After Effects or XCode or something
The reason why lid angle sensor is paired with the logic board is probably has something to do with Apple's Platform Security (which can be checked out from the official support website). Specifically, Apple uses the lid angle sensor to determine if the lid is closed, so that MacBook can block the internal microphone at a hardware level to prevent malware from recording secretly. Through force pairing, even if the hacker have the access to the hardware of a MacBook, they also can't steal audio by replacing the lid sensor to a modified one that always pretend as the lid is on.
Apple used to know how to make easily repairable computers back in the 1990s. That saved their bacon when they had several models with runs of defective parts and ended up doing a lot of recall repairs. It is possible to swap a logic board on a Power Mac 6200/6300 in less than five minutes, using only a #2 Phillips screwdriver. The Powerbook 190 and Powerbook 5300 generally did not take more than 40 minutes to change any part, not counting time to load up a new hard drive. Some of the LC models did not even need tools for most repairs - everything was done with latches. It would interesting to see the results if Apple returns to that east to servicedesign philosophy.
@@PvtAnonymous But if the SSD is removable then even in case of heavy damage to the laptop as long as the SSD survives you only need 5$ m.2 to usb adapter and you can get data out of it. Yes people should have backup of the most important data but that's no excuse for apple to solder ssd to the board.
@@JerziTBoss yeah that is of course the easier and better way. But since we've moved to soldered NAND/UFS storage on mobile devices, where you can never recover the data without saving the whole device, my stance still stands. No backup and I'll not shed a tear if a customer loses their data. From my experience, around 85% of customers walking into our store don't have backups of any sorts, some 5% have at least a few photos saved on iCloud or Google drive, but their storage is full and the other 10% properly back up everything. With hard drives (and even SSDs) being so cheap in 2023, you really don't need data recovery. And many applications nowadays support working from files in the cloud, which is even better. People need this hammered into their heads forever. And from my 3+ years of working with customers, I can tell you that those who pay big money for data recovery start backing up religiously. Only through painful lessons...
Oh it’s even worse than that, because the SSD controller isn’t even with the NAND chips. It’s a part of the SoC, so you basically need board-level microsoldering to do data recovery.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Pairing pieces should automatically guarantee a zero score. There are points that are an ethical issue against the right to repair, anyone who crosses this line does not deserve a score higher than zero. Please treat these companies the same way they treat their consumers.
Judging by the side side comparison, one thing I noticed is that the speaker assembly on the m3 pro looks ever slightly beefiier/ bigger. Is that really the case or does it really translate to real world use
The one downside of the transition to Apple Silicon is that it pretty much eviscerated the Hackintosh market. I would put MacOS on a Framework tomorrow if Intel wasnt on its way to being phased out.
Current version of MacOS has x86/amd64 build I think (but this is also the last MacOS that will have this). I'm more interested in effort of using Macs with Apple silicon with Linux.
The performance gain from on package RAM is negligible, there would be no difference in performance, only difference would be extra PCB space. However, it would hurt Apple's financial performance as they wouldn't be able to force people to pay +$200 for only +8GB RAM
Nobody is "forced to pay" for anything from Apple. You either buy their products or you don't - you really don't have to pay if you don't want to.@@vincelongman3264
4/10 seems quite high for a laptop with soldered down RAM and storage, as well as parts paired components. I guess the only thing keeping it from being lower is the removable battery, minor components being modular, and the eventual release of manuals and spare parts. I'd personally only give it a 2/10...
Apple could do parts pairing in a friendlier way. For example, when a customer registers a new product, the customer can be given the unlock code for pairing replacement components. If the computer is stolen for chop shop use, the parts are still useless because the shop will not have the pairing code. But if the customer has the code, he can then update the pairing in his system's firmware. Incidentally, the pairing software can check Apple's parts database for serial numbers reported stolen, so the theft protection remains. This also retains Apple's protection from warranty fraud since the warranty terms can specify that only properly registered parts are covered. The pairing program should permit some limited time of normal operation to give the repair tech an opportunity to register the new pairing. The hassle of self-registering is unavoidable, but with some thoughtfulness, it can be made minimal compared to the current over-priced process.
@@karmatraining If they lose the record, they have to go to Apple to get the code, which is the present situation. Providing the code at the beginning is an incentive for registering the warranty, which producers like Apple find desirable. An alternative method would be an automatic check after repair to verify no parts came from a reported stolen unit. If the check fails, the unit calls the police (indirectly via Internet, or through the phone if it has calling ability, then refuses to do anything else. If the check passes, the new pairing is registered and everything works normally.
@paulbade3556 - your whole comment is poiuntless !! Apple used to allow for off the shelf replacement parts and NOT bake in software locking to swap parts out. They simply need to stop writing reswtrictive source code into their firmware (see the part fo the video where they tried to swap displays); Even if Apple still opts for custom not-off-the-shelf-parts, those parts still need to be swappable by anyone that knows how to; and allow for 3rd party shops + manufacturers to provide non-Apple specific parts. Either that or stop charging the replacement cost of a product in order to simply repair it at an Apple Store.
3:01 well there is no need to bend the batter tab back as far as you do. Of course it will eventually snap if you behave like you did. It just needs to to lifted clear of the contacts on the BMS. Also once the battery data flex is disconnected there is no current flowing from the battery to the logic board anyway.
I mean in the past Apple soldered on the ram before but at least back then the SSDs were replaceable. It’s so frustrating to know that these incredible machines are so difficult/impossible to repair.. at least display, battery, SSD and the ports should be designed to be replaceable - without software hurdles..
Should give the Nothing Phone 2 a chance. At least for them, they are willing to be open and listen and respond compared to most other phine companies.
Windows is a SW company, not hardware. So it will always be repairable. ARM is a processor company, not a desktop manufacturer. On the other hand, Apple produces "everything" (eco system: SW and HW) so they can monopolize as their wish....
Don’t worry, macbook sales are already going down. To be honest, an M1 Air or Pro already does the job. Apple should be releasing laptops every 2 years, not yearly.
I strongly favour Apples unrivalled product quality. As they proceed in increasing the hurdles to prevent customers from reasonably repair, they drive me more and more out of the Apple ecosystem though. Bad conduct. Bad morals.
Is there talk about future models being more serviceable? I am in the market for a new MacBook (its a 2012), and I am debating whether I should buy one now, or wait for the next model.
I really want to switch to a Macbook Pro given the current uncertain state of Windows 10 and 11, but the lack of repairability and upgradeability is so frustrating. I need more than 1 TB internal storage. I wish they would at least put a storage upgrade bay or recessed SD card slot in the computer so I can add more memory for video editing. Hopefully replacement batteries will be available and easy to swap as I can't even get quality batteries for my 7 year old Asus laptop anymore.
The repairability score should be -4/10. I hope EU takes a stance and allow only repairable and unlocked parts swap on laptop. Anything less than the standard score should not be sold.
I am watching this because I bought MacBook 16" M3PRo 36GB and wanted to see what I've got :D Couldn't find any video for my exact machine but even this looks impressive.
hello, a few days ago, I was processing some data and it was the first time I heard the noise of the MacBook fans, so my question is the following. I noticed that the left fan ventilate less than the right one, is it normal? I noticed it by the noise they emitted.
Well, at least the battery is reasonably easy to swap and since I keep my machine clean and generally don't run it too hot, I don't see any component failures in my near future so this video it fairly re-assuring. I've had the base m3pro Pro for about 10 weeks now, use it daily, typically running for 10+ hours and haven't had a single issue with it yet. Overall a major upgrade from the 8/512gb m2 air I owed and used the same for 6 months prior.
Imagine if Apple decided to use its engineering power for for people and planet instead of profit.....I love my m1air but a soldered ssd that WILL fail is simply anti consumer and will remain so until they get forced to do the right thing like they were with UsbC for their phones. This is the crap corporations pull when they have zero competition or regulation.
This is also true for all defence industry companies too. If we the people would join forces a lot of diseases would be curable and nobody would starve. But this would be too much of communism.
I've got bad news for you. Every corporation (that means ALL OF THEM) exists only to generate profit and, this is the important part, corporations don't care how you feel about it. Now, can you guess what corporation is the most valuable in the world? Hint: it rhymes with bapple.
Don’t see any restrictions other that business to not include a M.2 slot and add a second SSD And boost base memory to 16GB in M3 and 24GB in M3 pro… For repairability the SoC can be socketed and same for SSD (ever if proprietary because the encryption, but if die don’t waste entire board)
Why can't they just get people to return their mbps and have the new innards swapped out with the new M3 chip? It's the same darn chassis right same display, same ports ???? Why do they keep saying recycled when that makes more carbon in the atmosphere, how do they expect to reach their so called imaginary goal ? Is it too fantastical to suggest what I suggested to just swap out all the innards in an otherwise it's the same chassis as the M1's and M2's?
I don't know I've seen aluminum that was anodized black, and it was black, so I would don't agree that it is harder to make more vibrant darker colors. Combine that with fingerprint resistance, tho is different story...
I have the 16GB Version M1 Macbook pro and I must say it fills up relatively quick after having a bunch of tabs open and MS word and some other apps when I am multi-tasking. its probably fine for just non muti tasker users only trying to web browser or light use but in 2023 you need more than 16GB.
Since Apple cares about the quality of parts and brands (including money) and protects the quality, it is very normal for them to make it difficult to repair parts without approval. I am also against interventions for parts outside of the service. There is a lot of careless and poor workmanship. Any action that will affect the brand's image should be prevented.
I mean Framework won't admit it but they love that too. Because it means you buy more stuff from them. And one day they probably HAVE to go a bit away from their approach because it wouldn't be sustainable.
Yeah, Raja995mh33, I guess that because you can actually replace parts in a Framework laptop without replacing the whole motherboard, and you can do it yourself, that somehow because you buy the parts from Framework that is a BAD thing??? As opposed to spending $$$ at the Genius Bar or just buying a new Mac every time something fails or you want to upgrade? Your next argument is just as bad. Somehow, Framework's strategy of selling upgradeable laptops is bad because it is not sustainable??? Before laptop sales replaced desktop sales, desktop PC manufacturers did quite well selling user-upgradeable computers. That is some twisted logic you have going on, just to be an Apple fanatic.
@@Raja995mh33 I think you could be right there since framework also has to answer to its shareholders at the end of the day and LTT being among the greediest will most definitely demand more return on investment which will be implemented really fast through either A. insane prices (the strategy they adhere to now) or B. gradually worsening repairability. At the end of the day there are simple economics and profit motives involved and Linus being a shareholder there doesn't give me much hope.
I don't buy PCs anymore, because you can't get anything as good as a Mac. You can upgrade some hardware, but the rest is still less than a Mac. Solid construction (even the MacBook Air,) thin and light designs, excellent keyboards, the best trackpad in the industry, and optimized OS for the hardware, industry leading power efficiency and battery life. Even Mac value LCD displays in the MacBook Air ... out class PC OLED displays because Apple buy quality components and then calibrates them. PC makers buy crap and sell crap.
With the MacBook lid closed, the microphones do not work. Most likely because of this, the sensor of the angle of inclination of the lid is protected from replacement
Just a guess I think I understand why they serialize the components, you see, these devices are the most targeted by thieves, so my suspicion is that they try to solve that issue and as a collateral ..we lose the ability to repair them in a cost effective manner.
Hi, can't login to my Mac and icloud, does mailru now runs apple? Seems like I'm using some Chinese replica, looks like personal computer is not personal at all
I wish the author of this video actually stated the engineering reason behind having RAM inside the SoC: it's much faster and has lower latency, leading to better performance. Yes, it's not upgradeable, but the vast majority of users never upgrade their RAM anyway. Having the SSD soldered onto the main board also helps somewhat with reliability, but it's not as strong of a reason.
Apple should take another look at their memory map practices. I suggest a base RAM in the SOC, plus upgrade sockets. Likewise, storage memory should have a base amount, plus a PCIe slot for expansion, and a provision to permit mirroring of the SOC storage in the PCIe SSD as a backup measure. This could make the sale for those who turn up their noses at the non-expandable base model, but don't want to fork over a ridiculous amount for more memory capacity right away. The battery power cable should have a connector on the logic board end just in case it breaks. The trick is to keep it reliable, cheap, and short-circuit-proof if somebody undoes it without removing the battery end first.
Nice..but why are you complaining about being unable to swap parts? If you can afford to buy a Mac, you should be able to afford the repair at Apple...
When an SSD fails that doesn't have to mean you lose your data... You can often still access that. You're most likely just not able to write on them anymore.
@@deloller2452 the typical failure mode of SSDs is running out of re-mappable blocks or cells. The result is that the volume effectively becomes read-only. There's no physical crash like you get with spinning disks. Also, who doesn't back up their data? It doesn't matter what you keep your data on, if you don't have a second copy somewhere, it's only a matter of time before you lose it.
The prices Apple charges to upgrade RAM and SSD space is insane when you consider what it costs for a PCIe gen 5 M.2 and high quality DDR5. The markup they have is outrageous
TBF they’ve been doing that since Steve Jobs came back to the company way back when. The overwhelming advice before they started soldering everything down was "buy the base model and upgrade the RAM and storage as you need it by yourself."
The storage price upgrades are sadly quite an industry standard tho... most others aren't really that much cheaper when you wanna upgrade frm 512GB to 1-2TB. And when it comes to the 4 and 8TB models, Apple can basically dictate any price they want because there's no other manufacturer giving you such huge storage options.
But the RAM upgrades yeah, they're ridiculous. Especially from 8 to 16GB. $200 for a fu... 8GB more.
@@Raja995mh33 Indeed, just look at the Microsoft Surface Laptop and Samsung Galaxy book upgrade costs. £200 just for 8GB to 16GB RAM, or 256GB to 512GB SSD. It's not just Apple.
Shop ASUS computers. What is your problem?
@@Raja995mh33a huge portion of laptops have user upgradeable RAM and SSDs, so do pretty much all windows desktops
Such impressive yet infuriating engineering.
Apple are such a scummy company - their greed means that they want full and absolute control so that they can leverage as much money from the consumer as is humanly possible. Sadly the Apple Cult still buys their over-priced, non-environmentally friendly products, so they share the blame for Apple's predatory practices. All it would take is for most Apple buyers to refuse to buy Apple's products until they mended their ways, but we all know that's highly unlikely to happen.
So don't buy it
@@AnonymousOG he never said he was. And you can enjoy or hate the product and still be critical. I love apple products, but also understand the frustrations that come with it.
There's nothing impressive here, they're selling you a mobile phone so that's scaled to a PC level. Mobile phones have been doing the unified memory thing for years. We'll see how much ahead apple is when Intel and AMD come up with ARM processors.
That’s my whole problem with Apple condensed in a single sentence. 😂
Cheers mate.
Time for the EU to force hardware to not be locked down now after they did it with USB-C.
That, and mandate that storage be replaceable alongside batteries. Serviceable RAM would be nice too, but while I grumble about it being soldered, I can live with it in a world where storage is replaceable, since the latter has a limited write-life.
apple will claim its for security, because with these paired parts stealing macbooks and iphones for their parts will not be as big anymore.
@@Ebalosus it can be done like in some PC laptops, base RAM is soldered, but rest can be added as needed
@@Ebalosus Don't forget Accessibility those Companies Gluing their products hindering you from repair
@@apl2215They do have leverage
4/10 is incredibly generous considering all the drawbacks and hinderance to repair. At this point the connectors are only here for the assembly process....
This is not an hinderance to repair. This is an hinderance for thieves and fraudsters.
@@nnnnnn3647 Parts should only become useless when the device is flagged lost or stolen.
@@nnnnnn3647 how is making it impossible to replace a broken screen yourself hindering any thieves or fraudsters?
very generous indeed when you can't change out storage or memory... the whole thing becomes e-waste when either of those parts lose performance
@@cornpowder4425 It's not true. You can buy a motherboard from Apple, which is not expensive.
I just bought 32GB of DDR5 5600MT/s SODIMM for my laptop for less than $100. It boggles my mind that the upgrade ontop of the already included 8GB costs $200 alone. $200 FOR 8GB OF RAM?!?! IS THIS 2007??
it's apple's proprietary ideology of money earning ✨ both RAM and SSD are sensitive parts if they go wrong, especially SSD which has its limited lifespan because of having to both read and write for many and many times, but being soldered so if SSD fails does the whole laptop also get affected, because apple solders everything into mainboard of macs. you can say same thing about RAM too despite having longer lifespan than SSD as it works differently, and that's why mac sales from skyrocketing thanks to first M chip to downfall nowadays because of this along with apple's counterrepair tactics
I bought 32GB DDR4-2400 for a friend's laptop on the used market for £40. Yes, £40. And I could have got 32GB DDR4-2666 today for £40 also.
Even when I bought it a couple of years ago for my HP OMEN (with higher RAM prices), I could still get 32GB DDR4-2666 for under £100.
@@TheSpotify95 It seems like Apple doesn't understand that traditionally capacity goes up and prices come down over time. Or at least they use that to make their margins even larger as time goes on lol
The company makes more money when you have to upgrade half way through a system's life span. I already know I'm going to have to upgrade for more storage and more RAM this year, and I got my M3 Pro last month. Thankfully it's a work provided computer so I'm at least not shelling out an extra $2700-3500 of my own money, I'll just be biting the bullet for the first time.
it happens not even only on macbook but also other windows laptops. 😂😂😂.
This device at most should get a 2 / 10, not a 3 / 10 because of all of the software locks. And soldering on SSDs should cap any product bigger than a smartphone to no more than a 2 / 10.
Word!
4 out of 10 is generous for unfixable laptops that are designed to break and ewaste
The European Union should force Apple to have not only replaceable parts, but the bare minimum of replaceable SSD's and expandable memory as well as an easily replaceable battery.
Replaceable > Battery > RAM > SSD > Processor > Graphics
The RAM part will probably never happen given Apple will say the RAM being on their SoC is vital, whether that’s even remotely true or not is debatable. The storage though, yeah there’s no reason for it to be soldered and non-replaceable.
@@johnmoore1495 There are good reasons to have it on the SOC, but there is nothing preventing them from adding another slot where you can put more, albeit slower ram.
I think this is one of the first times an Ifixit engineer has BLEEPED at a teardown product! Also, great explanation on why 8GB RAM is not good enough for a "professional laptop". The base model should have been 16GB, and upgrading the RAM costs way way more than on any Windows machine because you can't upgrade soldered components.
I managed to buy a 128GB DDR4-3200 kit for my gaming PC for £240. How much would it cost to get 128GB on a Macbook Pro? Is 128GB even an option on a Macbook Pro?!
the 16" macbook Pro caps at 128gb ram, but you have to buy the M3 max and add $1K.
16GB minimum was the base standard 10_ years ago. There isn't really much explanation needed in profe3ssional industries to avoid something with standard 8GBs in 2023. If you're buying for a company and you're that naive you simply ned to let someone else spec equipment out for you.
Integraded flash storage and ram is a headache...
It's a 3000 dollar device, this should not be acceptable...
there's A LOT of $3000 devices with soldered RAM. Storage is a different story though.
That’s why you guys have options you can explore the PC market for your upgradable laptops. personally, I like to stick with quality and reliability so I’m with Apple
Simple answer is don't buy these. These are e-waste in the making. Once SSD dies you are screwed. If anything on the motherboard dies you can only hope somebody is able to fix it or your data are gone.
8GB of RAM on PRO machine is a joke. I disagree that Apple designed themselves into a corner. They designed that on purpose so they can sell more of expensive machines and cloud subscriptions.
Seriously? 4/10 repairability on a machine whose parts you can't repair without Apple's permission? Come on, iFixit, you're better than this. That score is at least quadruple what Apple deserves.
I would have give 1/10, a 5 minutes replacement can turn into a 3 month reverse engineering challenge with these machines
One thing you need to understand about the MacOS Memory Manager: it's super aggressive about keeping things in Memory. Other Ones might start evicting Memory Pages at a much lower Memory Occupancy percentage. So if you've ended up accessing a lot of Shared Library Pages, they'll continue to fill up Memory till the OS really needs to free up Pages for new Content. And of course, if the freed Memory Pages are read-only Shared Library Pages, that means a simple reuse rather than having to write Modified Read-Write Pages out to Swap. So, the bottom line is that seeing 7GB of Memory being in use very quickly isn't really a problem. What you really want to look at is the amount of Swap that's being used.
Exactly. This video is misleading. 8GB is too little, but the numbers he was reporting would only matter if he were using multiple massive programs like After Effects or XCode or something
The reason why lid angle sensor is paired with the logic board is probably has something to do with Apple's Platform Security (which can be checked out from the official support website). Specifically, Apple uses the lid angle sensor to determine if the lid is closed, so that MacBook can block the internal microphone at a hardware level to prevent malware from recording secretly. Through force pairing, even if the hacker have the access to the hardware of a MacBook, they also can't steal audio by replacing the lid sensor to a modified one that always pretend as the lid is on.
Apple used to know how to make easily repairable computers back in the 1990s. That saved their bacon when they had several models with runs of defective parts and ended up doing a lot of recall repairs. It is possible to swap a logic board on a Power Mac 6200/6300 in less than five minutes, using only a #2 Phillips screwdriver. The Powerbook 190 and Powerbook 5300 generally did not take more than 40 minutes to change any part, not counting time to load up a new hard drive. Some of the LC models did not even need tools for most repairs - everything was done with latches.
It would interesting to see the results if Apple returns to that east to servicedesign philosophy.
The SSD is soldered to the board?
Doesn't that make data recovery insane?
that's why people should have backups. Data recovery from SSDs is always insane...
@@PvtAnonymous But if the SSD is removable then even in case of heavy damage to the laptop as long as the SSD survives you only need 5$ m.2 to usb adapter and you can get data out of it.
Yes people should have backup of the most important data but that's no excuse for apple to solder ssd to the board.
@@JerziTBossFacts Boss
@@JerziTBoss yeah that is of course the easier and better way. But since we've moved to soldered NAND/UFS storage on mobile devices, where you can never recover the data without saving the whole device, my stance still stands. No backup and I'll not shed a tear if a customer loses their data. From my experience, around 85% of customers walking into our store don't have backups of any sorts, some 5% have at least a few photos saved on iCloud or Google drive, but their storage is full and the other 10% properly back up everything. With hard drives (and even SSDs) being so cheap in 2023, you really don't need data recovery. And many applications nowadays support working from files in the cloud, which is even better. People need this hammered into their heads forever. And from my 3+ years of working with customers, I can tell you that those who pay big money for data recovery start backing up religiously. Only through painful lessons...
Oh it’s even worse than that, because the SSD controller isn’t even with the NAND chips. It’s a part of the SoC, so you basically need board-level microsoldering to do data recovery.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Pairing pieces should automatically guarantee a zero score.
There are points that are an ethical issue against the right to repair, anyone who crosses this line does not deserve a score higher than zero.
Please treat these companies the same way they treat their consumers.
If you're not reliant on macOS, choosing a Framework Laptop over this piece of manufactured e-waste is obviously the better decision.
Judging by the side side comparison, one thing I noticed is that the speaker assembly on the m3 pro looks ever slightly beefiier/ bigger. Is that really the case or does it really translate to real world use
Seems the same to me. Might just be the angle.
The one downside of the transition to Apple Silicon is that it pretty much eviscerated the Hackintosh market.
I would put MacOS on a Framework tomorrow if Intel wasnt on its way to being phased out.
Current version of MacOS has x86/amd64 build I think (but this is also the last MacOS that will have this).
I'm more interested in effort of using Macs with Apple silicon with Linux.
Waiting for when the battery is sealed at factory to reduce weight from charging circuitry
Battery pull tabs? Does this mean the battery will be replaceable without having to replace the whole bottom case?
yes
I wonder how those macs would perform if they would have a fallback dim style RAM too? Could imagine that would be the best of both worlds…
Seems like that would be a better Swap Memory than the SSD
The performance gain from on package RAM is negligible, there would be no difference in performance, only difference would be extra PCB space. However, it would hurt Apple's financial performance as they wouldn't be able to force people to pay +$200 for only +8GB RAM
Nobody is "forced to pay" for anything from Apple. You either buy their products or you don't - you really don't have to pay if you don't want to.@@vincelongman3264
You mean like a Dell laptop? God have mercy
I wonder how many storage modules are in the one terabyte version of the M3 Pro MacBook Pro. Is it four 256 gig modules or eight 128 gig modules.
Those subtitles were way more spicy than the actual spoken words :). Wish you used those more.
somebody needs to rework these subtitles
8 gig ram? what a joke
4/10 seems quite high for a laptop with soldered down RAM and storage, as well as parts paired components.
I guess the only thing keeping it from being lower is the removable battery, minor components being modular, and the eventual release of manuals and spare parts.
I'd personally only give it a 2/10...
Apple could do parts pairing in a friendlier way. For example, when a customer registers a new product, the customer can be given the unlock code for pairing replacement components. If the computer is stolen for chop shop use, the parts are still useless because the shop will not have the pairing code. But if the customer has the code, he can then update the pairing in his system's firmware. Incidentally, the pairing software can check Apple's parts database for serial numbers reported stolen, so the theft protection remains. This also retains Apple's protection from warranty fraud since the warranty terms can specify that only properly registered parts are covered. The pairing program should permit some limited time of normal operation to give the repair tech an opportunity to register the new pairing.
The hassle of self-registering is unavoidable, but with some thoughtfulness, it can be made minimal compared to the current over-priced process.
Wouldn't work as many machines are bought by companies who are notoriously bad at keeping records like this
Wouldn't work as it would cut into apple's profit too much. The scams like these allows apple to have physical stores.
@@karmatraining If they lose the record, they have to go to Apple to get the code, which is the present situation. Providing the code at the beginning is an incentive for registering the warranty, which producers like Apple find desirable. An alternative method would be an automatic check after repair to verify no parts came from a reported stolen unit. If the check fails, the unit calls the police (indirectly via Internet, or through the phone if it has calling ability, then refuses to do anything else. If the check passes, the new pairing is registered and everything works normally.
@paulbade3556 - your whole comment is poiuntless !! Apple used to allow for off the shelf replacement parts and NOT bake in software locking to swap parts out. They simply need to stop writing reswtrictive source code into their firmware (see the part fo the video where they tried to swap displays); Even if Apple still opts for custom not-off-the-shelf-parts, those parts still need to be swappable by anyone that knows how to; and allow for 3rd party shops + manufacturers to provide non-Apple specific parts. Either that or stop charging the replacement cost of a product in order to simply repair it at an Apple Store.
Please teardown a new iMac M3 next.
3:01 well there is no need to bend the batter tab back as far as you do. Of course it will eventually snap if you behave like you did. It just needs to to lifted clear of the contacts on the BMS. Also once the battery data flex is disconnected there is no current flowing from the battery to the logic board anyway.
I mean in the past Apple soldered on the ram before but at least back then the SSDs were replaceable. It’s so frustrating to know that these incredible machines are so difficult/impossible to repair.. at least display, battery, SSD and the ports should be designed to be replaceable - without software hurdles..
Should give the Nothing Phone 2 a chance. At least for them, they are willing to be open and listen and respond compared to most other phine companies.
I relly love their product but replaced them this year and won't buy anything until their anti-cosumer behaviour is changed
As soon as ARM for windows has developer support, I'm moving back to windows. Assuming they don't pull the same anti-repair BS.
Windows is a SW company, not hardware. So it will always be repairable. ARM is a processor company, not a desktop manufacturer. On the other hand, Apple produces "everything" (eco system: SW and HW) so they can monopolize as their wish....
Hope Apple hears you.
Year by year everything is getting ridiculous.
I don’t think Apple cares at this point
Don’t worry, macbook sales are already going down. To be honest, an M1 Air or Pro already does the job. Apple should be releasing laptops every 2 years, not yearly.
And maybe the legislation should prevent beautifully designed ewaste like this.
@@Gurenn83 almost not yearly. Check when M2 MacBook Pros were released...
You didn't link to your anodisation process in the description.
4 is way more generous, make it 1 or 1.5
You hate them, you love them but you can't argue that their internals look beautiful.
I strongly favour Apples unrivalled product quality.
As they proceed in increasing the hurdles to prevent customers from reasonably repair, they drive me more and more out of the Apple ecosystem though.
Bad conduct. Bad morals.
expensive repairs is the reason moved away from Mac.
Is there talk about future models being more serviceable? I am in the market for a new MacBook (its a 2012), and I am debating whether I should buy one now, or wait for the next model.
I really want to switch to a Macbook Pro given the current uncertain state of Windows 10 and 11, but the lack of repairability and upgradeability is so frustrating. I need more than 1 TB internal storage. I wish they would at least put a storage upgrade bay or recessed SD card slot in the computer so I can add more memory for video editing. Hopefully replacement batteries will be available and easy to swap as I can't even get quality batteries for my 7 year old Asus laptop anymore.
The repairability score should be -4/10. I hope EU takes a stance and allow only repairable and unlocked parts swap on laptop. Anything less than the standard score should not be sold.
How thin and easily scratched or marked is the space black anodization?
I am watching this because I bought MacBook 16" M3PRo 36GB and wanted to see what I've got :D Couldn't find any video for my exact machine but even this looks impressive.
hello, a few days ago, I was processing some data and it was the first time I heard the noise of the MacBook fans, so my question is the following.
I noticed that the left fan ventilate less than the right one, is it normal? I noticed it by the noise they emitted.
The MacBook Pro with base M3 is $1799 with 8 gb ram and 1 tb SSD but for only $200 more you get a m3 pro with 18 gb ram and 512 gb SSD.
for screen 2 chips have to be transferred from old to a new screen
Any laptop where you can't replace the SSD shouldn't even get a 2, let alone 4 out of 10.
How far is it from becoming a modular computer as MacBook sales slow down?
I thought that Apple now reports to Mother Nature directly.
I aint buying that unrepairable thing
Well, at least the battery is reasonably easy to swap and since I keep my machine clean and generally don't run it too hot, I don't see any component failures in my near future so this video it fairly re-assuring. I've had the base m3pro Pro for about 10 weeks now, use it daily, typically running for 10+ hours and haven't had a single issue with it yet. Overall a major upgrade from the 8/512gb m2 air I owed and used the same for 6 months prior.
Imagine if Apple decided to use its engineering power for for people and planet instead of profit.....I love my m1air but a soldered ssd that WILL fail is simply anti consumer and will remain so until they get forced to do the right thing like they were with UsbC for their phones. This is the crap corporations pull when they have zero competition or regulation.
This is also true for all defence industry companies too. If we the people would join forces a lot of diseases would be curable and nobody would starve. But this would be too much of communism.
I've got bad news for you. Every corporation (that means ALL OF THEM) exists only to generate profit and, this is the important part, corporations don't care how you feel about it. Now, can you guess what corporation is the most valuable in the world? Hint: it rhymes with bapple.
@@montex66 good to know ;)
@@jensbondarenko9195yeah because communism has worked so well for so many people...
@@phillippereira6468it has! a whopping 0 deaths under communism compared to 500 billion thanks to capitalism.
yeah well why would you even buy a MacBook Pro with only 8gb of ram? why invest in a pro machine if your gonna put just 8gb in it
to look cool at Starbucks.
If anyone had any least bit of tech savviness, they would upgrade the ram if they were purchasing this particular base M3.
I've seen people upgrading ram and SSD for the m1 and m2 macbook by replacing the chip inside. Isn't this possible now with the m3?
Can you explain what a unibody MacBook is
Don’t see any restrictions other that business to not include a M.2 slot and add a second SSD
And boost base memory to 16GB in M3 and 24GB in M3 pro…
For repairability the SoC can be socketed and same for SSD (ever if proprietary because the encryption, but if die don’t waste entire board)
Why can't they just get people to return their mbps and have the new innards swapped out with the new M3 chip? It's the same darn chassis right same display, same ports ???? Why do they keep saying recycled when that makes more carbon in the atmosphere, how do they expect to reach their so called imaginary goal ?
Is it too fantastical to suggest what I suggested to just swap out all the innards in an otherwise it's the same chassis as the M1's and M2's?
I don't know I've seen aluminum that was anodized black, and it was black, so I would don't agree that it is harder to make more vibrant darker colors. Combine that with fingerprint resistance, tho is different story...
I have the 16GB Version M1 Macbook pro and I must say it fills up relatively quick after having a bunch of tabs open and MS word and some other apps when I am multi-tasking. its probably fine for just non muti tasker users only trying to web browser or light use but in 2023 you need more than 16GB.
That’s just how MacOS works, it fills the ram even if you only have one tab open.
Since Apple cares about the quality of parts and brands (including money) and protects the quality, it is very normal for them to make it difficult to repair parts without approval. I am also against interventions for parts outside of the service. There is a lot of careless and poor workmanship. Any action that will affect the brand's image should be prevented.
You just convinced me not to ever buy an Apple product
So M1 16" replaced screens dont have artifacts?
Apple loves e-waste. I love my Framework laptop.
I mean Framework won't admit it but they love that too. Because it means you buy more stuff from them.
And one day they probably HAVE to go a bit away from their approach because it wouldn't be sustainable.
Yeah, Raja995mh33, I guess that because you can actually replace parts in a Framework laptop without replacing the whole motherboard, and you can do it yourself, that somehow because you buy the parts from Framework that is a BAD thing??? As opposed to spending $$$ at the Genius Bar or just buying a new Mac every time something fails or you want to upgrade?
Your next argument is just as bad. Somehow, Framework's strategy of selling upgradeable laptops is bad because it is not sustainable??? Before laptop sales replaced desktop sales, desktop PC manufacturers did quite well selling user-upgradeable computers.
That is some twisted logic you have going on, just to be an Apple fanatic.
@@Raja995mh33 I think you could be right there since framework also has to answer to its shareholders at the end of the day and LTT being among the greediest will most definitely demand more return on investment which will be implemented really fast through either A. insane prices (the strategy they adhere to now) or B. gradually worsening repairability. At the end of the day there are simple economics and profit motives involved and Linus being a shareholder there doesn't give me much hope.
What on earth? How come the Space Black looks like that on your video? It surely looks a lot darker and more blacker in real life, to me at least.
I thought the space grey laptop was a silver one at first glance
If Apple just would put as much resources in making their devices repairable as they do with the design...
I like how this guy always tries to hide his British accent but no matter how hard he tries it always finds its way out on certain words.
I wouldnt ever buy a Mac. I really dislike the lack of the ability to upgrade my own PC.
I don't buy PCs anymore, because you can't get anything as good as a Mac. You can upgrade some hardware, but the rest is still less than a Mac. Solid construction (even the MacBook Air,) thin and light designs, excellent keyboards, the best trackpad in the industry, and optimized OS for the hardware, industry leading power efficiency and battery life. Even Mac value LCD displays in the MacBook Air ... out class PC OLED displays because Apple buy quality components and then calibrates them. PC makers buy crap and sell crap.
With the MacBook lid closed, the microphones do not work. Most likely because of this, the sensor of the angle of inclination of the lid is protected from replacement
Just a guess
I think I understand why they serialize the components,
you see, these devices are the most targeted by thieves,
so my suspicion is that they try to solve that issue
and as a collateral ..we lose the ability to repair them in a cost effective manner.
can i replace my 14 m2 max board with 14 m3 max board:)?
Excellent engineering works
Marka kalitesini, itibarını ve sahte parçalarla çıkacak sorunları ve zararları eşleştirerek önüne geçmekteler. Gayet iyi bir şey.
Hi, can't login to my Mac and icloud, does mailru now runs apple? Seems like I'm using some Chinese replica, looks like personal computer is not personal at all
8gb is a joke. I use 12gb regularly and am so glad i upgraded to 16.
I think his name is Tim Apple
Apple supporting Right to Repair my ass.
I wish the author of this video actually stated the engineering reason behind having RAM inside the SoC: it's much faster and has lower latency, leading to better performance. Yes, it's not upgradeable, but the vast majority of users never upgrade their RAM anyway. Having the SSD soldered onto the main board also helps somewhat with reliability, but it's not as strong of a reason.
If they're anodizing the case now just give us a Product Red option, please!
OMG YASSSS! We need that!
Please investigate in the „dot Problem“ of These Laptops. They are using a Plastic Layer on top of the screen! And that gets damaged super fast!
Apple should take another look at their memory map practices. I suggest a base RAM in the SOC, plus upgrade sockets. Likewise, storage memory should have a base amount, plus a PCIe slot for expansion, and a provision to permit mirroring of the SOC storage in the PCIe SSD as a backup measure. This could make the sale for those who turn up their noses at the non-expandable base model, but don't want to fork over a ridiculous amount for more memory capacity right away.
The battery power cable should have a connector on the logic board end just in case it breaks. The trick is to keep it reliable, cheap, and short-circuit-proof if somebody undoes it without removing the battery end first.
m3 macbook air next please
What do they mean by "Gigabytes"? Apple isn't shipping their Macs with at least 1 Tb HD?
Base model only has 512GB SSD, but more concerning is only 8GB RAM...
😒@@TheSpotify95
The angle sensor is not paired but it does need to be calibrated
I can’t get the bottom off 😂😂😂
The extra fan makes it pro
'So *when* it [SSD] fails'. Come on, guys.
Apple and Google own the world
Nice..but why are you complaining about being unable to swap parts? If you can afford to buy a Mac, you should be able to afford the repair at Apple...
Not everyone is US based and has official store in their country.
8gb is a joke. I'm so glad I upgraded to 18gb.
why 4? this is an 1 and nothing more
I will NEVER buy another Apple anything 🤬
When an SSD fails that doesn't have to mean you lose your data...
You can often still access that. You're most likely just not able to write on them anymore.
How do you access it if failed
@@deloller2452 the typical failure mode of SSDs is running out of re-mappable blocks or cells. The result is that the volume effectively becomes read-only. There's no physical crash like you get with spinning disks. Also, who doesn't back up their data? It doesn't matter what you keep your data on, if you don't have a second copy somewhere, it's only a matter of time before you lose it.
@@qbranch2405 I do backups, I was just curious how you access to the data in a failed Ssd
@Loiusrossmann already has equipment to calibrate the screen angle sensor. Made a video on it proving that it works as well.
Apple screwing customers with parts pairing again 🤔
I don’t feel screwed. I think the channel operators personal agendas have infected your ability to think
Oh so you do still use 128g chips apple, smh
base m2 air having that cut ssd perfomance to push users towards upgrade
flash storage btw lmfao