Have the R7 (upgraded when my 80D died) and LOVE IT. When I shoot electronic shutter I tend to feather my shots to help the buffer issue. So far so good....just need to time your shots keeping in mind the buffer. If the rolling shutter is an issue...then learn to shoot better with mechanical or Electronic first curtain @ 15 fps.
I use the R7 daily with electronic shutter, c-raw and hi+ burst. I tap and feather the shutter and get anywhere from 4-7 up to 30-45 or more images and I'm never waiting on the buffer. Sometimes I'll hold the shutter down a moment longer but I'm never holding it down for three or four seconds. I never need a hundred or more images of something.
Very interesting video. Thank you. I have the R5 and R7. What I don't understand is why Canon doesn't give us an R5 firmware update to give us the same focus system as the R7. Plus, I would like a shutter sound when using electronic shutter. Kingfishers really are extremely tough to photograph in flight. Your photos are incredible. Hopefully one day I can capture such a fantastic photo.
The Northrups claim the R5 has better bif tracking than the R7. The new R6II has better bif focussing than the R5 according to Duade Paton. "...The R6II autofocus is exceptional, and way better than the R7..." The R6II also has 40fps e shutter, and the rolling shutter is slighlty better than the R5. The rolling shutter of the R7 is much worse than the R5, ie, 30ms readout speed vs the 15ms of the R5, and the 14ms of the R6II.
I have to disagree with the R5 having better BIF tracking than the R7. It is hard to find tougher BIF subjects to track than diving kingfishers and feeding swallows and the R7 does better than the R5 after many thousands of images taken. The rolling shutter is an issue, but the MS eliminates that issue. The R6II is a new animal and likely is the way to go for a lot of people. The R5II is likely on the near horizon as well. Fun times to be a bird in flight photographer given the R1 is also still in our future.
@@whistlingwingsphotography En se basant sur les tests entre R5 et R6, ce qui fait que le R7 et le R3 sont meilleurs au niveau AF, c'est tout simplement le nombre de pixel à gérer avec le même processeur (1 seul DIGIC X) pour faire la mise au point tout simplement. ;-) Merci pour ce comparatif !!
@@nordic5490 I wouldn't trust the Northrups as a reliable source for birds in flight. I remember Chelsea complaining how bad the 80D AF was, while showing a blurred image of a bird that was completely outside the AF points! Gee, I wonder why it was out of focus. I had an 80D and didn't have her issues because I kept the birds under an AF point. The Northrups rated a range of cameras' AF for birds in flight, years ago, and put the 760D ahead of the 80D. I had both cameras back then and the 80D's far greater frame coverage, 45 point all cross-type AF system was significantly better than the 760D's much narrower 19 point all cross type AF system. It had a lot of settings for tracking and locking on, etc. and the 760D had none, from memory. I couldn't believe their results. This is what happens when people 'test cameras' they don't know well and don't set up properly.
For an R5 owner like me, I think this video primarily puts focus on the need of an R1 (maybe with a R5 mk II as intermediate solution) in Canon's lineup. For me, living in Europe where birds in general are more difficult to approach than in North America, an ideal focal length is somewhere in the 600/4 w or w/o 1,4 TC on a crop sensor body, equivalent to 960-1344 mm. I want all the features of the R3, but the sensor isn't allowing me to crop like I currently do with the R5 in most cases. A 85 mp full frame sensor could solve that. Let's make Canon great again and bring the R1 to the market now!
I agree, I would love to see the R1. It should be the R3 with at least 50MP when it does arrive. I have heard that we will not see the R1 until the Summer Olympics 2024. We will see the R5II first.
meanwhile canon is making another crop sensor body (R8) while we wait for a high mpx pro style body that both Nikon and Sony have had for over a year already! It shouldnt be too difficult to put a 50-60 mpx BSI sensor in the R3 already! I think the wait is because they would have to discount or discontinue the R3 and those that bought them probably will have buyers remorse.
Terrific video! It’s worth noting you are shooting one of the most difficult subjects in the animal kingdom, so really testing the limits of each camera.
Great video. For small fast birds in fly, they are too difficult to be kept in a fixed zone. Using auto initialized point for tacking AF works very well for my R5 with RF 100-500mm. This is not the feature available on a DSLR and taking swallows, butterflies, and dragonflies in flight have never been so practical.
Great! Have you tested the R6 Mark II? For the same criteria, e.g., speed and accuracy of AF and low light performance, would you reach for the R6ii or the R7?
Cheers Ron for your very good explanation on why it's important to understand the performance/tech of the R7-R5-R3 when taking images of fast moving birds & for me, it was brilliantly translated!
The R3, R5, and R6II are all FF. The R3 is the best camera I have ever had in my hands for what I do. Please keep in mind I have a Sony a1 and had a Nikon Z9. The AF is the best I have ever used and the IQ coming from the 24mp sensor is just excellent. Yes, I know, only 24mp, but don't think this is too little without trying it. The R5 is showing its "age" and I would wait for the R5II, which it seems is not that far off, relatively speaking. The R5 is still an excellent camera, but the AF system is not as flexible as the other cameras mentioned here, so if that is important to you I would wait for the R5II. The R6II is the R3's little brother, so if you can't spend on the R3, the R6II can do a lot of what the R3 can do. All this has a caveat . There really are no bac cameras out there and I am talking about Canon, Sony, Nikon, Oly. Whatever you prefer the cameras and lenses are out there to allow you take amazing images and video like never before. Pick one and get out and shoot.
Great video and very timely 🙂 I am looking forward to joining you in less than 3 weeks. I will need to tweak a few things on the Sony A1 AF but it should be fun. Cheers
The R7 and R3 autofocus are similar and better than the R5, but definitely not the same. The eye-detect (photographer's eye) autofocus of the R3 gives it a clear advantage for picking up the bird initially. More importantly, the R3 EVF doesn't blink. That gives it an amazing advantage over the other two when it comes to following swallows, kinglets, and warblers. Swallows seem to veer during the "blink" of the R5 and R7 EVFs, resulting in losing the bird. With the R3, those erratically-moving birds are easy to keep in the frame.
Bonjour, comme d'habitude, une super vidéo . Les photos de votre site sont magnifiques. J ai un R5 et je fais aussi du BIF , pas facile en France les oiseaux sont très farouches. Il me faut un deuxième boitier, votre test m'a aidé, j 'élimine le R7 pour son problème limitatif d enregistrement des rafales et je vais aller tester un R3 et un R6 mark II.
Very detailed and nice - tnx. Perhaps have a go with the R6II it may turn out it is a budget R3 and at least solves the buffer issue with 24 MPs. I think people would be interested on your take of it. I have an R5 and I'm in the market for a 2nd body. Nice pictures also (goes without saying)/
The R6II may be the way to go for a lot of people. I have not had a chance to get an R6II so I cannot say anything at this point. I suspect the R5II is coming pretty soon as well.
@@whistlingwingsphotography Tnx even if / when the R5ii arrives it will be pretty expensive so an R6ii if as good as the R3 may still be a cost-effective option
I have the R7 and R5. Since buying the R7, I've only used the R5 a few times. However, the very first time I used the R7, with animal eye detect turned on, it had trouble locking onto a mockingbird a few feet away with low light. Never had that issue with the R5, and it's happened in similar situations with the R7 many times for me. However, the extra reach of the R7 allows me to use the EF 400 f/4 and not worry if I am a bit farther from the subject. Hopefully the R5II is really 50-60 MP so the crop mode is 20MP or more. It will undoubtably have the latest AF software from the R6II, so maybe that will be the best all-around compromise! Great video...informative and great shots as well! Thanks!
Interesting and insightful watch; I would like to know whether or not the SD card you are running in the R7 is a V90? Perhaps running a better quality SD card would prevent buffer overloads?
Great program! I just bought my own R7 with the RF 100-500mm lens. It'll arrive tomorrow via FedEX from those good Jewish folks in New York City. My first foray into the mirrorless world after 8 yrs. of bird photography with my 7D Mark 2s. I went with the R7 because it is APS-C not full frame. That is something you have not mentioned, yet. But it is important. Going from an APS-C crop camera to a full frame is not something I deemed I could do. So even though I could afford any R series lens, I chose this little cheap R7 as it is currently the only game in town for Canon mirrorless APS-C.
Great one Ron, Jim and I are looking forward to the Kingfisher Trip on December 15th. I assume we might not need the boots, but I can bring them anyway. I'm setting up my camera settings based on you recommendations.
I dont have time with r5 or r3 but have watched a ton of videos on all of canons cameras and have shot thousands and thousands of images with my R7 and I'm glad I can point to your video when I tell people id take my R7 over anything except maybe an R3. yes sometimes the R5 or R6 would do better but the extra reach, af, and 15 or 30 fps are what matter most to me. People still recommend any full frame camera over the R7 all the time in canon sub reddit and act like I'm crazy recommending the R7 even though I also point out things like Topaz making up for any noise advantage a full frame has over R7
Bingo - I said the same thing about the 90d years ago and people jumped all over me - nothing beats showing them results! Cognitive dissonance is an amazing feature for some 🤣
I've been using tracking and eye af all the time. I'm going to try it with just the tracking. Do you have the eye af assigned to a custom button or in your quick menu?
Ron, awesome presentation! I have R7 and RF 100-500 which reaches out far enough cropped. Contemplating an R3. Not contemplating a 10 thousand dollar lens. Would you feel comfortable in the context of the Kingfishers just adding my 1.4 tele to obtain enough reach with the full frame R3?
Thanks for this very instructive video! How did you film the diving kingfisher at 4:58? Which of the three cameras did you use for that and could you say a little about the settings? Thanks!
Thanks for the video. I have a kingfisher near me who perches on a telephone wire, and dives for fish. So I don’t think I’ll get a great perch, but I want to try to get him diving. Have you had more success with your 600mm f4 versus your 100-500L? I own the EF 600mm f4 and 100-500. I’m just curious if most of your best shots are with the big lens? Thanks! I’ll let you know and try both!
Thanks Ron for doing the research and using the wonderful Kingfisher example. Very informative. I have a R7 and enjoy learning how to use it and adapting to working around the drawbacks eg BIF rolling shutter warped/over stretched wings. I feather the shutter so while I cannot achieve a full return series of shots like yourself, it does overcomes the buffering problem. Think I need to buy a small tripod to stabilise my shots - one that can be easily carried while birding and bushwalking :)
Thanks so much for watching. Another option instead of a tripod would be the Speed-shooter harness system. It allows you to do exactly what you are wanting. Stabilize your shooting while birding and bushwalking. You can ge information on the harness here: www.whistlingwingsphotography.com/speed-shooter-harness
@@MaidenBklyn Feathering is a technique of taking photos in shorter series of shots. If shooting big RAW file format with a fast camera in the field, you sometimes get caught when pressing shutter in one long burst until your camera buffer fills. Camera then stops forcing you to wait for it to clear as it writes images to your memory card before allowing you to take next series of shots. Feathering the shutter allows you to keep taking shots when there's lots of bird or animal action going on. Worth having fast memory cards too
Kingfishers in flight is so hard, they move so fast. I just sold one of my R5’s and have a CPS loaner R3 coming in the middle of the month. I really want to test how much faster it autofocuses the RF 600/4 compared to the R5 and now I want to try these new zone options as well. I’ll check out your R3 set up video when it gets here.
As usual I’m in full agreement, same setup, same issues. So let’s look forward to the R1 hah. Have to say shooting owls in flight with the speed shooter and ES has been a game changer. You cannot shoot handheld as slow as I can go with the SS and pull off spectacular images. You need a video on the SS and slow shutter. Get people thinking out of the box. The best and really only worthwhile Canon technical page to follow.
Hey, thanks so much. Yep, I really want to see the R1, but Summer 2024 I am afraid is how long we will have to wait. The Speed-shooter is a great help with slow shutter and I appreciate you bringing that up. I will do a video on that aspect of things. Cheers.
Thanks Ron, I appreciate your comparison opinion of 3 Canon cameras. I’ve been very pleased with my R5 camera, maybe it’s time to break open my piggy bank and add an R3 to my camera bag.
I find that the hit rate for sharpness on the R7 is lower than the R5. For example, I get 8 out of 10 sharp images with R5 and about 5 out of 10 sharp ones with R7.
Hey, we are all different in our abilities, setup of things, and shooting scenarios. I am sure others have found the same results as you have. For me, the R7 AF out performs the R5. Right now, for me and how and where I shoot, I am really liking the R3 and R7, with the R5 coming in 3rd. Maybe a firmware update giving the R5 a fake shutter noise, flexible zones, tracking in all AF areas, etc. would change things.
Thanks Ron for very informative comparison, I used both R5 and R7 with RF100-500 and EF600M2. I would like to try your recommended setting by disable eye detection and with zone focusing. BTW for such a fast moving bird, my issue is hardly to keep the bird within the frame.
great vid.. just picked up an R6 mk Ii which also shares the R3 focusing (I used your R3 set up to set it up) It is a 2nd body to my R5 and wow your right that focus system is unbelievable. I almost sprung for the R3 but I'm hoping the R5 ii will come along in the not too distant future ... so keeping some powder dry for more pixels and that new focusing.
Another great video! Quick question- what IS mode are you using for the kingfisher (specifically)? I ask because there is mostly panning in this scenario.
I generally do not use IS when shooting birds in flight. If I do I use Mode 2. My best friend when shooting BIF is high shutter speeds and practice, lots of practice to get my keeper rate on BIF shots high. Thanks so much for watching and commenting.
The thing about the RF bodies and RF lenses and TCs is that I find very little degradation in AF performance with the use of TCs. This is a big difference over my experience with EF lenses and TCs. Thanks so much for watching.
Oh wow! This thing was in back of my mind. I have R3 and another one recently upgraded from R6 to R5. For couple of days in field with R5, i also found that R5 is tad slow in AF and jumps all over the place in extremely fast moving subjects like KFs and swallows. R6 was pretty fast on that count. I really appreciate your thoughts and big thanks for making this video. I follow your videos. Hope to meet you someday sometime.
For Birds you should change yourAF Cases. They are customizable. It really depends on what kind of environment you shoot in. I use the R5 and set up C1 for stationary birds and C2 for birds in flight. Change the AF so that it is stickier in busy backgrounds.
@@ThreeCeeProductions Thanks for your replies Sir. I have also configured my C1 and C2 to something similar. But in addition what I have done is that I have configured the AF point button to 'recall' function so that while shooting BIF (which is my primary setting) can quickly change to lower shutter speed (which automatically reduces the ISO as I am in auto ISO) in case the bird is stationary. this ways I need not shift between C1 and C2 as the action may take place instantaneously and may not have that split second to change the modes. Any thoughts on this setting Sir. Grateful, if you can share your WhatsApp number so that I can seek your guidance.
How does the area of the focussing zone compare if you move back with the R5 to the point that the bird covers the same number of pixels as the R3 using the same focal length lens? Seems like that might mitigate the focus issue (and reduce rolling shutter) while making it much easier to pan with the bird (especially for weekend photographers that only occasionally shoot fast birds in flight) without losing resolution relative to R3.
This is a good question. It def does help with the aspects you mention. However, the AF system of the R3 is still a bit better at finding and holding on to flying subjects as well as static ones in some shooting scenarios. There is just an inherent different in the AF systems making the R3 a bit better overall. And when shooting really fast subjects that extra bit of capability can make the difference in getting the shot or not getting the shot.
Nope, I have not had a chance to work with the R6 II. Given it is 24MP and not a stacked sensor it still has rolling shutter issues in ES. Also, the lack of CFe card slot makes me think buffer dump will be slow so the 40fps will be not very useful for a lot of shooting scenarios that I find myself in. All in all I am sure it is a great camera and would be a great choice for a lot of photographers. But, given I have the R3 I really do not have a need to try the R6II.
Hello! Thanks very much for this informative review/comparison! As you note, the rolling shutter isn't an issue with the R7 mechanical shutter, so is there a shutter speed above which the shutter shock isn't an issue? I realize the fps is lower going mechanical so it isn't optimal, but may be an acceptable compromise for the R7 shooters. Hearing from you about the R7 AF and recent news from others about the R6 II seems to foreshadow a similar AF update to the R5 by mid year (an update to this excellent review at that time would be great).
Hey, thanks so much for watching and commenting. I have not found that shutter speed really has much bearing on shutter shock at the shutters speeds where I am worried about shock being an issue. I would welcome some AF improvements for the R5. Bring on the flexi zones, please.
My message having been deleted, I put it back. I said that the AF was more or less efficient depending on the pixel number of the sensor so it is not surprising that the R3 and R7 are ahead of the R5 efficiency level which had already been confirmed in a comparison between R5 and R6. Thanks for this video 🙂
I'm out of town so am late seeing this video. Thanks so much for posting it! I thought I was losing my mind after shooting hummingbirds in Ecuador last month with my R5 using the electronic shutter and more than 50% of the pictures had MAJOR wing anomalies including major binding and elongation and warping and sometimes extraneous wings floating around in the picture! Probably another 25% had minor wing abnormalities. I was shooting at a high enough speed so that the action should be frozen. I was totally disgusted with the performance of my R5. My guide had the R3 and had no such issues and was truly shocked at the way my pictures were turning out. I was shooting in manual. I have my camera set up as you described in your video with the 3 back button options which I love. I only had one freeze/lock up during the 2 weeks of lots of shooting. I still have a love/hate relationship with this camera--when it's good, it's very good; but when it's bad it's awful! Catherine Dalessio
i went for the R6II. the R3 is too big, too heavy and too expensive (for only 24MP). the R5 is old and lacks the neat little features and improvements of the newer cameras. the R7 has bad rolling shutter and a lower viewfinder resolution than the 2018 EOS R.
I am waiting to see what the the R5II brings. If I end up getting the R5II or an R1 (if it ever comes to pass), then I will likely sell my R5 and R7 and keep my R3 and the new camera.
interesting video especially with in the field comparison. I have the R5 and I am happy, but not enthusiastic. It's a very good camera that can do a lot (sport, portrait, wildlife, macro...). It's a multipurpose camera but it does not excel: there are better cameras for wildlife, other are better for sport, other are better for panorama. In my opinion, Canon was kind of in rush to send out a mirrorless camera in the market that was good enough. I hope the new 5d MK2 will be with little higher megapixel, faster focus, stacked BSI... we'll see...better to start to save money again, I suspect it will be again around $4k
Good video... thanks. Interesting info from Canon who say the R3 behaves like a 30Mpix sensor and comparing the files to the 5Div, they are almost the same size. I shoot both R3 and R5 and did a side by side comparison of a bird, same distance (40 feet or so), 500 iso, RF100-500. The two images cropped in were virtually the same with the R3 slightly better due to less noise. In this case, resolution didn't matter as image quality was slightly better with the R3. I love the R3 for birds and wildlife even though there are lots of reviews on U-Tube saying the resolution is not enough to make it a good camera. I'm not in agreement. I like your pragmatic reviews. Well done.
Hey, thanks so much. I really appreciate your input. I agree 100% that the R3 is a great camera for birds and wildlife. I believe the quality of the images does make it more like a 30MP body versus 24MP. All around it is the best body I have ever shot and I have used a lot of cameras and not just Canon. The only reason I sometimes wish it had a bit more resolution is if I am interested in entering an image in a competition. They like to see as much res as possible in an image no matter how good it looks at the size presented, if it is not high enough res then it is not considered as good by the judges.
Have the R7 (upgraded when my 80D died) and LOVE IT. When I shoot electronic shutter I tend to feather my shots to help the buffer issue. So far so good....just need to time your shots keeping in mind the buffer. If the rolling shutter is an issue...then learn to shoot better with mechanical or Electronic first curtain @ 15 fps.
Hard choices! R 3 5 or 7
But I own a D6 and firmly believe the best camera to shoot with is the one I own.
Great informative video
I use the R7 daily with electronic shutter, c-raw and hi+ burst. I tap and feather the shutter and get anywhere from 4-7 up to 30-45 or more images and I'm never waiting on the buffer. Sometimes I'll hold the shutter down a moment longer but I'm never holding it down for three or four seconds. I never need a hundred or more images of something.
I agree with you. I mean 30 images per second is SO big that I mostly shoot with mechanical for 15 images per second
Very interesting video. Thank you. I have the R5 and R7. What I don't understand is why Canon doesn't give us an R5 firmware update to give us the same focus system as the R7. Plus, I would like a shutter sound when using electronic shutter. Kingfishers really are extremely tough to photograph in flight. Your photos are incredible. Hopefully one day I can capture such a fantastic photo.
The Northrups claim the R5 has better bif tracking than the R7. The new R6II has better bif focussing than the R5 according to Duade Paton.
"...The R6II autofocus is exceptional, and way better than the R7..."
The R6II also has 40fps e shutter, and the rolling shutter is slighlty better than the R5. The rolling shutter of the R7 is much worse than the R5, ie, 30ms readout speed vs the 15ms of the R5, and the 14ms of the R6II.
I have to disagree with the R5 having better BIF tracking than the R7. It is hard to find tougher BIF subjects to track than diving kingfishers and feeding swallows and the R7 does better than the R5 after many thousands of images taken. The rolling shutter is an issue, but the MS eliminates that issue. The R6II is a new animal and likely is the way to go for a lot of people. The R5II is likely on the near horizon as well. Fun times to be a bird in flight photographer given the R1 is also still in our future.
confirmed R5 firmware is coming.
Its called R5 MkII.
dont you know Canon by now ....hahahaaa
@@whistlingwingsphotography En se basant sur les tests entre R5 et R6, ce qui fait que le R7 et le R3 sont meilleurs au niveau AF, c'est tout simplement le nombre de pixel à gérer avec le même processeur (1 seul DIGIC X) pour faire la mise au point tout simplement. ;-)
Merci pour ce comparatif !!
@@nordic5490 I wouldn't trust the Northrups as a reliable source for birds in flight. I remember Chelsea complaining how bad the 80D AF was, while showing a blurred image of a bird that was completely outside the AF points! Gee, I wonder why it was out of focus. I had an 80D and didn't have her issues because I kept the birds under an AF point.
The Northrups rated a range of cameras' AF for birds in flight, years ago, and put the 760D ahead of the 80D. I had both cameras back then and the 80D's far greater frame coverage, 45 point all cross-type AF system was significantly better than the 760D's much narrower 19 point all cross type AF system. It had a lot of settings for tracking and locking on, etc. and the 760D had none, from memory. I couldn't believe their results. This is what happens when people 'test cameras' they don't know well and don't set up properly.
your panning skill with those slow shutter is INCREDIBLE !
Hey, thanks so much. And thanks for watching.
Would you consider a setup video for R7 to shoot video?
For an R5 owner like me, I think this video primarily puts focus on the need of an R1 (maybe with a R5 mk II as intermediate solution) in Canon's lineup.
For me, living in Europe where birds in general are more difficult to approach than in North America, an ideal focal length is somewhere in the 600/4 w or w/o 1,4 TC on a crop sensor body, equivalent to 960-1344 mm. I want all the features of the R3, but the sensor isn't allowing me to crop like I currently do with the R5 in most cases. A 85 mp full frame sensor could solve that. Let's make Canon great again and bring the R1 to the market now!
I agree, I would love to see the R1. It should be the R3 with at least 50MP when it does arrive. I have heard that we will not see the R1 until the Summer Olympics 2024. We will see the R5II first.
@@whistlingwingsphotography So what might be the possible price point of the R1?
meanwhile canon is making another crop sensor body (R8) while we wait for a high mpx pro style body that both Nikon and Sony have had for over a year already! It shouldnt be too difficult to put a 50-60 mpx BSI sensor in the R3 already! I think the wait is because they would have to discount or discontinue the R3 and those that bought them probably will have buyers remorse.
Terrific video! It’s worth noting you are shooting one of the most difficult subjects in the animal kingdom, so really testing the limits of each camera.
Great video.
For small fast birds in fly, they are too difficult to be kept in a fixed zone. Using auto initialized point for tacking AF works very well for my R5 with RF 100-500mm. This is not the feature available on a DSLR and taking swallows, butterflies, and dragonflies in flight have never been so practical.
Great! Have you tested the R6 Mark II? For the same criteria, e.g., speed and accuracy of AF and low light performance, would you reach for the R6ii or the R7?
Great analysis, thanks very much!
Very informative and totally helpful reviews, thank you
Glad it was helpful!
Great video, clear, concise and well worth a watch
Great vid , well explained with great examples.
Cheers Ron for your very good explanation on why it's important to understand the performance/tech of the R7-R5-R3 when taking images of fast moving birds & for me, it was brilliantly translated!
fantastic review - R7 is my choice! Thank you
I have the R7. Just love it. Thanks for this - gives me some idea what is on the ff side
The R3, R5, and R6II are all FF. The R3 is the best camera I have ever had in my hands for what I do. Please keep in mind I have a Sony a1 and had a Nikon Z9. The AF is the best I have ever used and the IQ coming from the 24mp sensor is just excellent. Yes, I know, only 24mp, but don't think this is too little without trying it. The R5 is showing its "age" and I would wait for the R5II, which it seems is not that far off, relatively speaking. The R5 is still an excellent camera, but the AF system is not as flexible as the other cameras mentioned here, so if that is important to you I would wait for the R5II. The R6II is the R3's little brother, so if you can't spend on the R3, the R6II can do a lot of what the R3 can do. All this has a caveat . There really are no bac cameras out there and I am talking about Canon, Sony, Nikon, Oly. Whatever you prefer the cameras and lenses are out there to allow you take amazing images and video like never before. Pick one and get out and shoot.
I have R5 and R3, I use R5 when I need to crop and for static/ slow moving subjects. R3 for fast action and video
Sounds like a plan. Thanks for watching and adding your thoughts to the discussion.
Ron - What is your Max Iso setting you feel comfortable using with the Canon R5?
Great video and very timely 🙂 I am looking forward to joining you in less than 3 weeks. I will need to tweak a few things on the Sony A1 AF but it should be fun. Cheers
Looking forward to shooting with you.
Great explanation and comparison.
Thanks so much and thanks for watching.
The R7 and R3 autofocus are similar and better than the R5, but definitely not the same. The eye-detect (photographer's eye) autofocus of the R3 gives it a clear advantage for picking up the bird initially. More importantly, the R3 EVF doesn't blink. That gives it an amazing advantage over the other two when it comes to following swallows, kinglets, and warblers. Swallows seem to veer during the "blink" of the R5 and R7 EVFs, resulting in losing the bird. With the R3, those erratically-moving birds are easy to keep in the frame.
I suspect the R5II will behave like the R3 with regards to VF behavior.
Bonjour, comme d'habitude, une super vidéo . Les photos de votre site sont magnifiques. J ai un R5 et je fais aussi du BIF , pas facile en France les oiseaux sont très farouches. Il me faut un deuxième boitier, votre test m'a aidé, j 'élimine le R7 pour son problème limitatif d enregistrement des rafales et je vais aller tester un R3 et un R6 mark II.
Very detailed and nice - tnx. Perhaps have a go with the R6II it may turn out it is a budget R3 and at least solves the buffer issue with 24 MPs. I think people would be interested on your take of it. I have an R5 and I'm in the market for a 2nd body. Nice pictures also (goes without saying)/
The R6II may be the way to go for a lot of people. I have not had a chance to get an R6II so I cannot say anything at this point. I suspect the R5II is coming pretty soon as well.
@@whistlingwingsphotography Tnx even if / when the R5ii arrives it will be pretty expensive so an R6ii if as good as the R3 may still be a cost-effective option
I have the R7 and R5. Since buying the R7, I've only used the R5 a few times. However, the very first time I used the R7, with animal eye detect turned on, it had trouble locking onto a mockingbird a few feet away with low light. Never had that issue with the R5, and it's happened in similar situations with the R7 many times for me. However, the extra reach of the R7 allows me to use the EF 400 f/4 and not worry if I am a bit farther from the subject. Hopefully the R5II is really 50-60 MP so the crop mode is 20MP or more. It will undoubtably have the latest AF software from the R6II, so maybe that will be the best all-around compromise! Great video...informative and great shots as well! Thanks!
Thanks for watching and providing your experiences. Much appreciated.
Interesting and insightful watch; I would like to know whether or not the SD card you are running in the R7 is a V90? Perhaps running a better quality SD card would prevent buffer overloads?
Great program! I just bought my own R7 with the RF 100-500mm lens. It'll arrive tomorrow via FedEX from those good Jewish folks in New York City. My first foray into the mirrorless world after 8 yrs. of bird photography with my 7D Mark 2s. I went with the R7 because it is APS-C not full frame. That is something you have not mentioned, yet. But it is important. Going from an APS-C crop camera to a full frame is not something I deemed I could do. So even though I could afford any R series lens, I chose this little cheap R7 as it is currently the only game in town for Canon mirrorless APS-C.
The religious beliefs / ethnicity of the seller is completely irrelevant. This comment is offensive should be removed @Whistling Wings Photography
Were you using spot metering instead of evaluative? I am thinking that would be advantageous. I'm going to try that myself.
Great one Ron, Jim and I are looking forward to the Kingfisher Trip on December 15th. I assume we might not need the boots, but I can bring them anyway. I'm setting up my camera settings based on you recommendations.
You will need your boots. Water is still very high.
Thank you for a really informative video Ron.
My pleasure, thanks for watching.
Thanks from downunder OZ
I dont have time with r5 or r3 but have watched a ton of videos on all of canons cameras and have shot thousands and thousands of images with my R7 and I'm glad I can point to your video when I tell people id take my R7 over anything except maybe an R3. yes sometimes the R5 or R6 would do better but the extra reach, af, and 15 or 30 fps are what matter most to me. People still recommend any full frame camera over the R7 all the time in canon sub reddit and act like I'm crazy recommending the R7 even though I also point out things like Topaz making up for any noise advantage a full frame has over R7
Hey, thanks for watching and adding your thoughts to the discussion.
Bingo - I said the same thing about the 90d years ago and people jumped all over me - nothing beats showing them results! Cognitive dissonance is an amazing feature for some 🤣
Thank you, Sir!
Thank you for this video. I have the r6 and R7. I really like the R7 now with this video the more I like it 😅
Great to hear!
I've been using tracking and eye af all the time. I'm going to try it with just the tracking. Do you have the eye af assigned to a custom button or in your quick menu?
what camo wrap are you using on your 100-500
Ron, awesome presentation! I have R7 and RF 100-500 which reaches out far enough cropped. Contemplating an R3. Not contemplating a 10 thousand dollar lens. Would you feel comfortable in the context of the Kingfishers just adding my 1.4 tele to obtain enough reach with the full frame R3?
Great comparison video. I own the R7 and agree with your assessment. All three cameras are very good and represent very different price points.
Thanks so much for adding your experience. Always good to hear other's take on things.
Thanks for this very instructive video! How did you film the diving kingfisher at 4:58? Which of the three cameras did you use for that and could you say a little about the settings? Thanks!
Thanks for the video. I have a kingfisher near me who perches on a telephone wire, and dives for fish. So I don’t think I’ll get a great perch, but I want to try to get him diving. Have you had more success with your 600mm f4 versus your 100-500L? I own the EF 600mm f4 and 100-500. I’m just curious if most of your best shots are with the big lens? Thanks! I’ll let you know and try both!
Thanks Ron for doing the research and using the wonderful Kingfisher example. Very informative. I have a R7 and enjoy learning how to use it and adapting to working around the drawbacks eg BIF rolling shutter warped/over stretched wings. I feather the shutter so while I cannot achieve a full return series of shots like yourself, it does overcomes the buffering problem.
Think I need to buy a small tripod to stabilise my shots - one that can be easily carried while birding and bushwalking :)
Thanks so much for watching. Another option instead of a tripod would be the Speed-shooter harness system. It allows you to do exactly what you are wanting. Stabilize your shooting while birding and bushwalking. You can ge information on the harness here: www.whistlingwingsphotography.com/speed-shooter-harness
can you explain what you mean by "feather the shutter"? thank you kindly.
@@MaidenBklyn Feathering is a technique of taking photos in shorter series of shots. If shooting big RAW file format with a fast camera in the field, you sometimes get caught when pressing shutter in one long burst until your camera buffer fills. Camera then stops forcing you to wait for it to clear as it writes images to your memory card before allowing you to take next series of shots. Feathering the shutter allows you to keep taking shots when there's lots of bird or animal action going on. Worth having fast memory cards too
Kingfishers in flight is so hard, they move so fast. I just sold one of my R5’s and have a CPS loaner R3 coming in the middle of the month. I really want to test how much faster it autofocuses the RF 600/4 compared to the R5 and now I want to try these new zone options as well. I’ll check out your R3 set up video when it gets here.
Sounds like a good plan you have going. I think you will find the R3 to be a bit better all around, just lower res.
I got the R7 (my first camera) and god damn this camera is well above the price tag
I agree. It is an amazing camera for the price point, with a couple of limitations depending on how and what you shoot.
As usual I’m in full agreement, same setup, same issues. So let’s look forward to the R1 hah. Have to say shooting owls in flight with the speed shooter and ES has been a game changer. You cannot shoot handheld as slow as I can go with the SS and pull off spectacular images. You need a video on the SS and slow shutter. Get people thinking out of the box. The best and really only worthwhile Canon technical page to follow.
Hey, thanks so much. Yep, I really want to see the R1, but Summer 2024 I am afraid is how long we will have to wait. The Speed-shooter is a great help with slow shutter and I appreciate you bringing that up. I will do a video on that aspect of things. Cheers.
Thanks Ron, I appreciate your comparison opinion of 3 Canon cameras. I’ve been very pleased with my R5 camera, maybe it’s time to break open my piggy bank and add an R3 to my camera bag.
My pleasure!
I find that the hit rate for sharpness on the R7 is lower than the R5. For example, I get 8 out of 10 sharp images with R5 and about 5 out of 10 sharp ones with R7.
Hey, we are all different in our abilities, setup of things, and shooting scenarios. I am sure others have found the same results as you have. For me, the R7 AF out performs the R5. Right now, for me and how and where I shoot, I am really liking the R3 and R7, with the R5 coming in 3rd. Maybe a firmware update giving the R5 a fake shutter noise, flexible zones, tracking in all AF areas, etc. would change things.
Thanks Ron for very informative comparison, I used both R5 and R7 with RF100-500 and EF600M2. I would like to try your recommended setting by disable eye detection and with zone focusing. BTW for such a fast moving bird, my issue is hardly to keep the bird within the frame.
I understand the challenge of keeping the bird in the frame. It is a super challenge, but that is what I love about it. Thanks so much for watching.
great vid.. just picked up an R6 mk Ii which also shares the R3 focusing (I used your R3 set up to set it up) It is a 2nd body to my R5 and wow your right that focus system is unbelievable. I almost sprung for the R3 but I'm hoping the R5 ii will come along in the not too distant future ... so keeping some powder dry for more pixels and that new focusing.
Ha, keeping powder dry! I know what you mean. Me too. I am looking toward the R5II and the R1.
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Another great video! Quick question- what IS mode are you using for the kingfisher (specifically)? I ask because there is mostly panning in this scenario.
Thanks so much, Gail. Mode 2 or I turn it off. If the light allows me to shoot at 1/4000 - 1/6400s I turn it off.
Thanks for the informative video. I am struggling to get sharp pictures of BIF with the R6; do you turn off IS in the lens? Thanks!
I generally do not use IS when shooting birds in flight. If I do I use Mode 2. My best friend when shooting BIF is high shutter speeds and practice, lots of practice to get my keeper rate on BIF shots high. Thanks so much for watching and commenting.
Hi there, long time subscriber here. Question. Have you ever tried your r7 with 1.4x III on your previous lens the 600mm II? Thanks
Sorry, no, I never had the chance to try that combination.
Thanks for the helpful video! How do you like the R7 paired with a 600mm f4 and 1.4 TC? Still autofocus well?
The thing about the RF bodies and RF lenses and TCs is that I find very little degradation in AF performance with the use of TCs. This is a big difference over my experience with EF lenses and TCs. Thanks so much for watching.
Oh wow! This thing was in back of my mind. I have R3 and another one recently upgraded from R6 to R5. For couple of days in field with R5, i also found that R5 is tad slow in AF and jumps all over the place in extremely fast moving subjects like KFs and swallows. R6 was pretty fast on that count. I really appreciate your thoughts and big thanks for making this video. I follow your videos. Hope to meet you someday sometime.
Hey, thanks for taking the time to add your experiences to the discussion. Much appreciated.
For Birds you should change yourAF Cases. They are customizable. It really depends on what kind of environment you shoot in. I use the R5 and set up C1 for stationary birds and C2 for birds in flight. Change the AF so that it is stickier in busy backgrounds.
@@ThreeCeeProductions Thanks for your replies Sir. I have also configured my C1 and C2 to something similar. But in addition what I have done is that I have configured the AF point button to 'recall' function so that while shooting BIF (which is my primary setting) can quickly change to lower shutter speed (which automatically reduces the ISO as I am in auto ISO) in case the bird is stationary. this ways I need not shift between C1 and C2 as the action may take place instantaneously and may not have that split second to change the modes. Any thoughts on this setting Sir. Grateful, if you can share your WhatsApp number so that I can seek your guidance.
How does the area of the focussing zone compare if you move back with the R5 to the point that the bird covers the same number of pixels as the R3 using the same focal length lens? Seems like that might mitigate the focus issue (and reduce rolling shutter) while making it much easier to pan with the bird (especially for weekend photographers that only occasionally shoot fast birds in flight) without losing resolution relative to R3.
This is a good question. It def does help with the aspects you mention. However, the AF system of the R3 is still a bit better at finding and holding on to flying subjects as well as static ones in some shooting scenarios. There is just an inherent different in the AF systems making the R3 a bit better overall. And when shooting really fast subjects that extra bit of capability can make the difference in getting the shot or not getting the shot.
Have you tested the R6 mark 2-- they say same AF as R3 but up to 40fps still smaller cards-- Thoughts!!
Nope, I have not had a chance to work with the R6 II. Given it is 24MP and not a stacked sensor it still has rolling shutter issues in ES. Also, the lack of CFe card slot makes me think buffer dump will be slow so the 40fps will be not very useful for a lot of shooting scenarios that I find myself in. All in all I am sure it is a great camera and would be a great choice for a lot of photographers. But, given I have the R3 I really do not have a need to try the R6II.
Hello! Thanks very much for this informative review/comparison! As you note, the rolling shutter isn't an issue with the R7 mechanical shutter, so is there a shutter speed above which the shutter shock isn't an issue? I realize the fps is lower going mechanical so it isn't optimal, but may be an acceptable compromise for the R7 shooters. Hearing from you about the R7 AF and recent news from others about the R6 II seems to foreshadow a similar AF update to the R5 by mid year (an update to this excellent review at that time would be great).
Hey, thanks so much for watching and commenting. I have not found that shutter speed really has much bearing on shutter shock at the shutters speeds where I am worried about shock being an issue. I would welcome some AF improvements for the R5. Bring on the flexi zones, please.
@@whistlingwingsphotography Thanks for your input! -- Kind regards
how's 24-105 working with adapter? is there any issues in focusing?
Sorry, I do not have the 24-105, so I cannot provide any feedback on AF performance with that lens.
My message having been deleted, I put it back.
I said that the AF was more or less efficient depending on the pixel number of the sensor so it is not surprising that the R3 and R7 are ahead of the R5 efficiency level which had already been confirmed in a comparison between R5 and R6.
Thanks for this video 🙂
All these bodies use the DIGIC X. There is no reason why Canon couldn't offer the same AF for the R5 as the R3/7.
I do wish they would add the flexible zones to the R5.
Thanks....
I'm out of town so am late seeing this video. Thanks so much for posting it! I thought I was losing my mind after shooting hummingbirds in Ecuador last month with my R5 using the electronic shutter and more than 50% of the pictures had MAJOR wing anomalies including major binding and elongation and warping and sometimes extraneous wings floating around in the picture! Probably another 25% had minor wing abnormalities. I was shooting at a high enough speed so that the action should be frozen. I was totally disgusted with the performance of my R5. My guide had the R3 and had no such issues and was truly shocked at the way my pictures were turning out. I was shooting in manual. I have my camera set up as you described in your video with the 3 back button options which I love. I only had one freeze/lock up during the 2 weeks of lots of shooting. I still have a love/hate relationship with this camera--when it's good, it's very good; but when it's bad it's awful!
Catherine Dalessio
For really fast wings you need to use Mechanical shutter no two ways about it.
i went for the R6II. the R3 is too big, too heavy and too expensive (for only 24MP). the R5 is old and lacks the neat little features and improvements of the newer cameras. the R7 has bad rolling shutter and a lower viewfinder resolution than the 2018 EOS R.
I have not had a chance to get an R6II yet, but that may be a great way to go. I am on the lookout for the R5II, which is probably not far off.
So are you selling the R5?
I am waiting to see what the the R5II brings. If I end up getting the R5II or an R1 (if it ever comes to pass), then I will likely sell my R5 and R7 and keep my R3 and the new camera.
and Canon R6?????
interesting video especially with in the field comparison. I have the R5 and I am happy, but not enthusiastic. It's a very good camera that can do a lot (sport, portrait, wildlife, macro...). It's a multipurpose camera but it does not excel: there are better cameras for wildlife, other are better for sport, other are better for panorama. In my opinion, Canon was kind of in rush to send out a mirrorless camera in the market that was good enough. I hope the new 5d MK2 will be with little higher megapixel, faster focus, stacked BSI... we'll see...better to start to save money again, I suspect it will be again around $4k
Something went wrong. Can’t watch video.
I just tried it and it works. Not sure why you cant view it.
Eye detection to me is not necessary.
Good video... thanks. Interesting info from Canon who say the R3 behaves like a 30Mpix sensor and comparing the files to the 5Div, they are almost the same size. I shoot both R3 and R5 and did a side by side comparison of a bird, same distance (40 feet or so), 500 iso, RF100-500. The two images cropped in were virtually the same with the R3 slightly better due to less noise. In this case, resolution didn't matter as image quality was slightly better with the R3. I love the R3 for birds and wildlife even though there are lots of reviews on U-Tube saying the resolution is not enough to make it a good camera. I'm not in agreement. I like your pragmatic reviews. Well done.
Hey, thanks so much. I really appreciate your input. I agree 100% that the R3 is a great camera for birds and wildlife. I believe the quality of the images does make it more like a 30MP body versus 24MP. All around it is the best body I have ever shot and I have used a lot of cameras and not just Canon. The only reason I sometimes wish it had a bit more resolution is if I am interested in entering an image in a competition. They like to see as much res as possible in an image no matter how good it looks at the size presented, if it is not high enough res then it is not considered as good by the judges.
Basically, you get what you pay for.
Yep. That is true most of the time.
That lip smacking - it’s annoying to me because I realized I did it a lot, too.
Sorry, but I am who I am. If you don't like it don't watch. That is about all I can say. Cheers.
You should love the R6 Mark II as backup for R3.
It would be a good backup, but given I have the R5 and R7, I don't think I will go for the R6II.