First and foremost, I wasn't expecting anyone else to make a video about this in 2024, especially a larger creator. Amber was a completely different character after she forgave Mark and was even kind of boring in season 2. It was interesting to see two different opinions from the only two videos recently released on the topic and funnily enough are arguments were mostly similar. We used the same evidence when discussing Mark not being a good boyfriend. Amber not being a monster, but a normal highschooler with character flaws. My takeaway was that she was ultimately a bit in the wrong and his takeaway was that she was ultimately in the right. I think it comes down to our lived experiences being different. I found Amber's manipulation with the outburst against Mark after he saved from her the cyborg while she knew what he was doing and the additional outburst after the trip particularly egregious, and he agrees that it was wrong of her to do that. He found Mark's dishonestly and lack of communication for months to be worse, and honestly that's a fair opinion. I thought his video was well made, I just slightly disagreed with it.
Yeah it was that specific line that changed my entire perception of the character. If she has already known about Mark's secret for the past few weeks, then her accusatory behavior toward him during the university episode no longer makes sense anymore. She went from being a sympathetic figure that had justifiable frustrations with her crappy boyfriend, to being a weirdly entitled and manipulative person that plays mind games for the pettiest reasons. It was a very unfortunate writing choice.
@@loco_logic The writers didnt plan it that way. But shes a Mary Sue. And they do everything and figure everything out on their own. Even if it makes no sense.
@@DmanDice I once saw an interview where Kirkman basically admitted that it was indeed an unintended writing mistake. Episodes 6 and 7 had two different head writers. Usually they're pretty consistent about that stuff, but the revelation that Amber had known about Mark's secret for weeks in EP 7 caused an unintentional continuity error with episode 6 (the university). In their effort to make Amber appear smart by figuring out her boyfriend's identity, they accidentally ended up making her look like a manipulative a-hole instead. So yeah, they had no idea how much of a ripple effect that one mistake would cause, completely ruining her character for a lot of the audience lol
@@loco_logic She was annoying, to the audience, but had understandable problems with Mark (that scene where he's getting his ass beat at Machine Head's Tower while Eve goes to the shelter with Amber was probably my favorite use of her character). She should have dumped him, or something along those lines, instead of constantly holding it over his head. It was already a bit manipulative, but that single line made her just seem despicable. If they removed that singular line, gave her basic human empathy, I feel like the season 2 arc would have been great. The whole time though I was just thinking how they retconned her constant smugness, she suddenly became super supportive (like when Mark asked about going to space, and she acted like of course she'd never hold that against him), and just... she's a different character. The only thing that's the same is the voice and the face.
Funny enough season 2 Amber has the opposite problem where now she’s too understanding and her and Mark are just wasting screen time holding on to a dead relationship 🤔
@@squidzerohero yeah that would be cool if I didn't have to wait 3 years with an added 4 month gap in b/n. If you're gonna keep leaving me on cliffhangers the last thing I want is to spend time with this plot line
Thank you. It’s annoying I wish the show just ended their relationship since they broke up and never came back. It’s such a whiplash her change and they have no reason to have them in a relationship other than ugh relationship struggles.
Amber revealing that she knew he was invincible and still not understanding Mark’s side is what made the fan base not like her. I admit she was more understanding and patient in season 2, but the damage was done already. She just serves to prove the point that first impressions really do matter, even in fictional story telling.
@Him535 I mean sure but there's a line between a little unhealthy and completely sociopathic. Amber saw Invincible almost die against the Cyborgs to protect her and everyone else there, but then when Mark showed up she immediately starts insulting him for abandoning them instead of being thankful or worried about him. Her doing that while knowing his identity is just sociopathic. It's not something you could forgive as just kids being stupid. But at the same time I've heard this whole problem apparently stems from a writing error that happened because those two episodes had different head writers. Basically the one who added that "I've known for 3 weeks" line just wanted to make Amber seem smarter than she is in the comics. They didn't realize the fucked up implications. They should've communicated more and realized the mistake but I can forgive that. So I try to pretend that line never happened which makes Amber decently likable even if she's a bit self-righteous. I kind of wish that they'd retconned it in universe. Like have Amber admit that she was lying to keep her composure and only found out about Mark's identity when he told her. But I guess it would've been hard to fit that in organically.
@Him535 true, but with so much gore and serious topics the show tackles, it’s more often than not, easy to forget they are just high school kids. What can I say, flaws of a human ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@ap7635 You make valid points, Amber's actions during the university scene were weird at the very least. But I feel like a LOT of people here, including many youtubers taking on the topic (this isn't targeted), have a very different mindset or just plain doesn't understand what is going on. Aside from that error, I can completely understand how Amber operates. And as I can see it the show/comic source probably takes care to paralell it's themes in itself. Example is Angstrom egotistically stating "I use my powers for good" and the results of it being parallel to Atom Eve going around using her powers for "good" only for those to come back and bite her in the ass. Mark and Amber's relationship is the mimicry of what Debby and Nolan supposedly had (or have when the relationship starts) So if we go by Amber figuring out who Mark is, which mind you is reasonable actually, then she might want such a relationship "Mark helps a lot of people and I like that, I want to be part of it" which is suggested because she invites mark to her (not so) humble way of helping people. But of course she doesn't want to be an accessory for an alter-ego, that's why it would have been important for Mark to tell her, if he wanted the relationship to be serious. And he wanted to, not ony did he say it, he even chosen college based on his currect relationship (generally considered a bad move). It shouldn't be controversial to think that for a serious relationship you have to include the other person in your life and for Mark that means sharing his real identity with Amber, whom believes herself to be virtous and strong and all that, someone who can take being the partner of a superhero (which could be take nas a metaphor for a lot of things). This means however, that Amber revealing this to mark would rob him from making the decision to commit (which is the topic of S2). And honestly I would be rather pissed at someone who keeps lying to me and would say "okey, if this is how you want it, I'll play dumb along with you." So yeah, not telling Amber means Mark doesn't want a serious relationship with her to which she is right to break up. Telling him that she knew he was invincible would mean Mark can no longer make the decision to do so, since it was made for him. It's another thing of course, that turn out Amber in fact cannot take the heat and immediately chickens out. All that posturing for nothing. But as the other guy said, cringe it might be, it makes sense for 19 year olds to be rather dumb.
@StayMinty11 The problem is the series never addresses the fact that Amber was in the wrong. Throughout the whole of season one, everyone acted like Mark was being a crappy boyfriend for not entrusting Amber with his biggest secret, simply walking off from something like that just isn't something you do.
I mean Ahsoka (from Clone Wars) is a great example of a character overcoming first impressions, when the showrunners have a good plan for the character. It just feels like they didn't have a good plan for Amber.
They did the best with what they had (total retcon, pretend like nothing happened) but I wish we could have seen a more human (empathetic) Amber in season 1 and a more human (plot device, unemotional) Amber in season 2.
Honestly it's not really a good thing. Season one she was toxic season 2. They tried making her so redeemable that her character is genuinely nothing. Now. She's perfect at everything. Doesn't have any problems. Doesn't have a goal to get to and serves as a placeholder to save money on screen time
Hot take I like the character growth of Amber losing her personality and being terrified gradually as Mark's superhero life seeps in. Even if there wasn't too much done with it I liked the scenes where they're not talking to each other I wish it didnt take up the entirety of the season but ya get what you get, it was better than S1
@@kawaiibats2822 yeah im missing a scene where amber after omni mam scapes earth realizes mark burden and decides to stop bitching and support him, but it was at the cost of loosing prt of her personality or smt like that
As everyone in the comments is pointing out, Amber has completely turned around from this in season 2. The only thing that still makes me hate her is that she had absolutely no character arc to make the change into a more sympathetic person. The writers just knew that people hated her because of how awful of a human being she was and just rewrote her instead of building her up to be a better person.
Exactly, I even say they pushed her so far onto the other side it's jarring. She completely lost her sarcasm, humor, personality. She's just Mark's gf in season 2, not Amber. Something in between complete fucking monster and doormat would've been great
Awful human being? From what, 3 scenes that contradicted her previous characterization? Are you insane? There are literally 3 scenes that are an issue, nothing more. The 2 scenes between them at college when they're fighting and the final break up scene. Nothing else is an issue. Even amber checking on Mark after breaking up makes sense. She still did have feelings for him and someone she was just with nearly died in a close to world ending fight. Anyone who can't see this as reasonable is actually a monster who has no idea of the complexity behind human emotion and how hypocritical it can be.
@@mentalpopcorn2304 She waited until he was talking to another girl to make her move, she clearly enjoyed the power over Mark she had, she held his time commitment issues over his head to make him owe her instead of just leaving, the ultimatums that she went back on, the insanity of that rant at the college (If she knew, what the actual fuck; if she didn't, why the fuck does she expect him to be as suicidal as her?), and ofc the breakup where she was mad at him for not telling her his identity. If she knew, and was half as intelligent as she is portrayed, SHE'D HAVE TOLD HIM 3 WEEKS AGO SO HE DIDN'T HAVE TO KEEP LYING! She's manipulative, emotionally abusive, and just cruel, and the writers try to gaslight everyone with the other characters to make it Mark's fault. It's disgusting.
@@mq8858 bro so true. Like if she understood any part of what being a public image (especially a superhero) is like she'd know it's stupid dangerous for him and her if she knows and is a part of all of it, which she even recognizes in season 2, so like why not just leave or tell him or both.
Yeah, she almost didn't feel like the same character... If she admitted she might have put too much pressure on Mark in the past, it would have acknowledged the issues in her character and make her evolution more natural.
I resent the fact that you claim that Mark solely stood up for Amber when she was getting harassed because he was hoping to awaken his powers. Granted that would have definitely helped motivate him, but that doesn’t discount the truth that Mark has a strong sense of justice and its well established that he is motivated to help and protect others even at the expense of his own well being. No one else did anything to help Amber in her time of need, Mark did even when he still didn’t have his powers. He faced someone bigger, stronger and more aggressive. Amber only “saved” Mark when he gave her a perfect opening since the bully was too focused on beating him. You criticize Mark for not checking up on Amber after she was harassed by the bully when HE WAS THE ONE WHO GOT HIS ASS BEAT. You say he goes from pathetic to confident, I strongly disagree. Mark was never pathetic. He stood up to bully’s even when that very much ended up hurting him. That’s very admirable and not something to be looked down on by you. Do you look down on people that die in the line of duty because they didn’t come out victorious? Obviously it would be cooler and sexier for him to beat up the bully rather than be the one that gets beaten up. That doesn’t change the fact that standing up for someone else against someone more aggressive and stronger is brave and admirable rather than being something pathetic or to be looked down on like you say. You criticize Mark for confronting the bully from behind , my question to you was what do you want him to do? Did you expect him to walk in front of him before confronting him? That’s dumb. He still stood up to him face to face when the bully turned around and then sucker punched Mark. Mark did show himself to be an inexperienced fighter but that in itself isn’t something to look down on him for when confronting someone who doesn’t think twice when sucker punching him. You also gloss over the fact that Amber compares Mark keeping his secret identity from her the same as his father lying to him his whole life about his intended conquest of earth. Not at all the same and frankly insulting that she would even make such a comparison.
I think what angers me the most about Amber is the way she just suddenly becomes understanding just because Mark told her about his secret identity. Where was the greater good before? Was it not as important when you knew he wasn't telling you the full truth? Should people have been left to die against villains just because your boyfriend didnt want to put your life at risk like what happened when Anissa came? I genuinely think they only made a change like that because they desperately wanted people to be sad when Mark and Amber broke up, rather than celebrate.
I think they changed her character because of the backlash. Because s1 amber wouldn't have stayed all 8 episodes. To be fair most characters or regular people wouldn't stayed so patiently. Season 1 Amber and s2 Amber are completely different imo
@@jhmxk And it was all them, the Amber in the comics is a regular person who could not stay in that relationship and that gave a sense of realism to the whole story. In the show on the other hand it is contrived and bizzare, not to mention pointless and detrimental to the story.
My favorite bit from her in season 1 was, after witnessing Mark get beaten almost to death by his own father after being lied to for his entire life, she goes to him and takes him back literally saying "we were both lied to :(". Just straight gaslighting him and equating "my boyfriend lied about being a superhero" and "my dad is a mass murdering alien psychopath who killed his coworkers in a bid to ready the planet for an alien takeover, killed thousands of innocent citizens and used me as a body shield to rip apart an entire subway train, traumatizing me horribly". Like, this was 100 percent a conscious decision on Amazon's part. It's evil for no real reason
Yet in season two amber says to Adam eve “we were both lied to” again equating rex cheating on her multiple times through their entire relationship to, my bf of like 2 weeks didn’t tell me he just got superpowers EXTREMELY recently
@@crescendyr8438no she’s not she was literally upset with him for lying about his identity even though he only lied for the EXACT reason that happened with anissa in ep. 7 and she also acted crazy like her boyfriend didn’t have an obligation to help people(with that being said she was in high school i’m sure anyone in her place would’ve acted like that, it’s just no one else on the show did so it made her look worse) but she definitely was more understanding in season 2
@@crescendyr8438they saw the hate to her character in season 1 so they completely changed her in season 2 to be better not even the same character anymore though
@@burner2burner1 she explicitly tells you what she was made at, which you ignore. She was never angry at him for saving people. She was upset that he treated her like she was stupid and took her for granted. She was pretending not to know to give him a chance to come clean. And she gave him more time than any girl should. If Mark can't manage a normal relationship he should not be in one. He doesn't get to stand a woman up, be late all the time and bail on her and not be honest with her about why. She was testing his character. If he wants to protect her he should have dumped her and moved on instead of being a selfish entitled pr1ck.
Honestly, this anaylsis of season 1 Amber was being generous by leaving out a couple lines that really sold why she was so insufferable. Yet, somehow they managed to convince us to care just a little bit in late season 2. But, it says a lot that in season 1, Amber was easily the most hated character, even more hated than Rex. Rex was literally written to be an asshole in season 1. Yet, he was funny.
He's also pretty much exclusively an asshole in s2... but seems like he may start to grow moving forward. Also, I think it's a bit more playable because honestly I don't think it's THAT far from other quippy characters like The Flash or Spider-Man. Especially TASM Spider-Man. Sure, Peter is usually more or less nice to non-criminals, to allies... but he's kind of a dick in the Garfield movies even a bit to Flash, isn't he? And Flash is supposed to bully Peter, not the other way around lol. Rex just feels like a step or two past Garfield's Peter, imo. Less discerning with the targets of his quips. Not saying he's not an asshole, because he is... and I don't really like him. I don't even find him funny, for the most part... but especially with this season setting him up to be less of one going forward, and even before that we could see some sincerity poke through at times... I don't really hate him, either. Amber definitely pissed me off more.
@@kingofpigs6630 he kinda skipped over Amber's line of "I had pretty much already dumped you", when talking to Mark whom as far as she knew, got hit by a bus and was clearly in rough shape. Even if she felt that way at the time, telling him that if it wasn't for the fact that Mark got "hit by a bus", she would be ready to dump him is insensitive at best, and manipulative at worst. He also skipped over her reasoning for getting back together with Mark being, "I guess I wasn't the only one being lied to..." a line that is wildly inconsiderate of what Mark is going through, still treating Mark as the bad guy in their relationship, comparing Mark lying to her to Nolan secretly being a genocidal murderer, just days after Mark got beaten to a bloody pulp by his father, having his whole world shattered, finding out his childhood was almost all a lie, and having his dad leave. Right after all that, her line to Mark was comparing him in their relationship to his father. That's at the very least wildly inconsiderate, and if she was doing it on purpose, it's also extremely toxic.
@@amokriinprolgiid3409it’s unreasonable to dump him after failing her again, unless it was an emergency? Are you stupid? Actually you are why am I asking duh
I think that is because she didn’t get as much screen time as other people compared to last season I think it is because they were scared that amber would get more hate
@@thatonekid8794amber really shouldn’t have gotten hate they should have stuck to the comic since in the comic she didn’t even know and actually had a real reason to be upset and when she found out he was a hero she felt like a bitch they just completely killed her character comic amber is ok show amber is a complete bitch and shouldn’t have existed should have just stuck to the comics
@@thatonekid8794 I do think the hate at Amber was justified for S1. Mark's concerns about telling her were validated in S2 as well proving she was wrong to be angry at Mark trying to keep her away from that side of his life.
@@corneliusbrunneis7208 They changed her character WITHOUT the incremental progression. It sucks because every other character shows normal progression, even Omni-Man
@@Georgzkefallinoz Nobody is telling him to tell her bout all his trauma she just got tired of him flaking on her and lying to her face all the time..he could’ve said he’s invincible sooner to save himself the headache🤷♂️
the main problem i had with the amber character in the show is that they actually knocked it out of the park in the comic. in the camics it was a really smart, mature and mutual break up where they admitted they cared for each other but also both registered that it wasnt working. and then went on to be in each others lives and close friends. it was amazing to read such a good example of how break ups dont have to be horrible and can in fact be good for both people if everyone can be grown ups.
I thought this was going to be a "trash Amber nonstop" video. This was put together really well, and it made perfect sense. Very rational and logical. I agree with just about everything you said. The only thing that I'd add is that she lied to Mark. She was lying by omission. She pretended that she didn't know his secret instead of just being honest. Not the worst kind of lie, but neither was his. But still, i like the fact that you pointed out how young they were.
@@HK47_115 I liked this video. I like the editing, pacing, and the overall script. It was a good video about an older topic. I'm sure there are millions of similar videos out there on this topic. I'm sure that they're millions of shorts, tweets, video essays, and social media post about it. I haven't watched them. I haven't read them. I'm sure that they're fine. Or maybe they aren't. I'm not interested in finding out. What I do know is that this video served it's purpose and I'd watch more of his content. 1. I asked a very simple question. "Do you actually have a question for me?" Seems like your less interested in having a conversation and more interested in monologuing. Nothing wrong with that. 2. You obviously aren't aware of this because you have know way of knowing, because you didn't ask...but I haven't watched thousands, hundreds, or even dozens of videos on this topic. Maybe you have and you seem to be a bit bothered by it all. That's unfortunate. I watch the content that I actually like. The algorithm doesn't choose for me. 3. I typically don't watch "rage" videos. I don't usually watch videos that are full of whining, complaining, or just hate. It's just TH-cam so I often just judge the video by the thumbnail or the title. So I skip videos that start off with "this is why people hate xyz" or "this is why fans are angry about xyz." It's a matter of person preference. 4. I'm an older guy and I've realized that no matter how positive I try to be, someone will eventually attempt to "comment section fight" over nothing. I was being genuine when I asked if you had a question for me. I'm not against having long conversations in a comment section. I'll have that conversation even if it's about content that I might not even care about. But I typically try to ignore people that start out by trying to "push buttons" or antagonize. You have the tone of a comment section antagonist. 5. The show is fine. I'm a fan. I don't read the comics because I'm literally just a casual fan of the content. I'm not a super fan, a fanatic, or a die-hard. I just like the show. I don't spend time online consuming hours of content related to the show. I've seen a few entertaining reviews, I avoid spoilers, and I leave it at that. 6. In all honesty, I was annoyed at how you approached me. You didn't ruin my day but you succeeded if you wanted bother me. It was the unnecessary disrespect. And I know, it's the internet. And I know, I could have just ignored you. Especially since I didn't get online for an argument or a debate. Why did I respond? Curiosity. I was confused about why you were so...emotional. As if you were offended by something that I'd say. But now I understand. 7. This seems like an outlet for you. Maybe you have a successful channel of your own and maybe you don't. But it seems like you're just a guy who has some free time on his hands and you just want to express yourself. The comment section allows you to speak without interruption. You can be blunt, rude, short, disrespectful and you don't have to worry about backlash. I spend a lot of my free time online too. Nothing wrong with that. I use to argue about things that didn't really matter to me. Or I would argue about things that I was really passionate about. The point is, I didn't mind an argument nor did I mind being argumentative. So when I say "I get it" I really do. 8. The insults. Hey, you don't strike me as the type of person that's easily offended. I, on the other hand, can be "triggered" easily but it really just depends on my mood. That being said, I'm not going to trade insults with you. It wasn't my goal to be negative when I left my initial comment so I won't start now. 9. As I said before, you succeeded in irritating me. Or annoying me. So if I came off as irritated or annoyed, that's why. I don't offer any apologies nor would I expect you to accept any. 10. My tone and temperament might have changed throughout this response. Still, I don't believe that I've been disrespectful. I feel that you went out of your way to be disrespectful towards me. Is it a big deal? No. It's just funny to me because it's at least somewhat unexpected. I go out of my way to avoid disrespect and I pay respect when it's due. I avoid videos that are likey to produce comment sections that are full of disrespect and "negative vibes." But I end up showing a little support to a TH-cam creator, by interacting in his comments..... and I get a lecture. That's funny.
@@HK47_115 I knew I forgot something. Do you actually have a question for me? A question other than "What is the algorithm been feeding you?" Do you have a question about the video, my take on the video, my take on the show, my opinion on Amber? I guess what I'm trying to ask is do you have a question for me, or not? I'm reiterating because you missed it the first time I asked. I read your comment and it really didn't apply to me. I replied accordingly.
@@jasoncarter1869 FUCKING FORGET IT DUES!!! I've made this reply a thousand times but TH-cam keeps deleting it. TH-cam keeps deleting it. I can't make my point because TH-cam keep f**king deleting it!!!!!! JUST STOP RESPONDING!!! FORGET IT!! FORGET!!! Because you're going to do the exact same thing everybody and every fucking comment section does you're going to gaslight me and then sit there and say you did nothing wrong with your first reply was beyond disrespectful! Add TH-cam keeps deleting my sh*t so I can't even make my point so f**king forget it!!! Literally wrote this comment five times already and TH-cam keeps deleting it so just forget it, forget I exist, delete your reply, I don't fucking care what you do my guys, FORGET IT!!! Christ I can tell just by the first sentence you didn't even read my comments. So I'm going to give you the same f**king courtesy and I'm not reading a single thing you said. Not that it matters. Every time I try to address anything TH-cam keeps deleting my comments so just fucking leave me alone!! I am beyond tired of you immediately illiterate **** and youtube DELETING every f***ing comment I make!
For anyone wondering about this (cuz HK47 deleted their comments), HK47 just started monologuing (i probably spelt that wrong, but idc) about how there are tons of videos on this, about how great he is at understanding stories, etc. Then after OPs first response, he talked about how illiterate OP must be for not understanding anything and not reading more than 10 words. It was just a really weird "conversation".
Yeah, I'm with Mark even with his flaws. He was trying his best to do right by what he's suddenly given as well as Amber but Amber is clearly trying to reshape him in an image she'd prefer of him and not in a positive way.
Dude I like amber I really do but she knows he's a hero and still gives him crap about it "you didn't do this you didn't do that" DUDE HES A HERO STOP GIVING HIM CRAP ABOUT IT and dude if she thinks he's dishonest that's cool but once again he's a hero he knows she'll be targeted if she wants him to be honest she needs to be honest LIKE TELLING HIM SHE KNOWS HES A HERO she thinks hes lucky to have her but shes lucky to have him comic book amber was flawed but atleast she wasn't a jurk about it
How is she lucky? She almost got killed and was help hostage 💀 like yea im season one is understandable but in season 2 she’s all for mark and support mark when he goes away for 2 months like she’s literally traumatized rn by being almost killed
@animelife9302 couldn't be me getting folded just kidding I never said anything bad about season 2 amber which I do like her but still in season 1 she's garba-
@@AfroSynergy but you still clicked anyway you saw the "yes" in the thumbnail, but still clicked, most likely because it's not a short answer that you want
The only real bad part about Amber was the bad writing with Mark telling her about him being invincible. It was uncharacteristic of her to act like that and it was just bad writing because if she knew he was invincible then realistically she would understand. If they just made her mad that, to at least her, Mark just left her in danger then also bring up all the times he just doesnt show up then it would have been fine.
I couldn't get over the line she said when she came to mark after what happened with his father "I guess we were both lied to." That line just reeks of an awful thing to say in that moment. Imagine you broke your leg and then I compare my scrapped knee to what you've been through today. Its wild.
I agree 100% and my biggest issue with Amber in season 2 is how her attitude and personality feel like damage control for how bad her worst moments were in Season 1.
If I’ve dated someone for a few months, no I don’t expect to know Everything about them. ESPECIALLY for a fucking superhero!! Imagine if someone’s girlfriend of 4 months got mad at them for not sharing national secrets from their job as a Special Forces soldier or some shit?
That’s a bad example and bruh been flaking and lying to her for months! Imagine dating a girl and she just randomly flakes on u…That relationship wouldn’t even last a week with me
Honestly wish season 2 had her and Mark reflect on that scene. To me I think that scene ruins her whole character because she had no right to yell at Mark for "running away to get help" if she knew who he was. If they wrote the scene differently and didn't have every character make Mark feel bad for lying her I think she wouldn't get any hate and in fact people might feel bad about their break up
It works for some characters like Mary Jane, but they have to have Their Own Shit™ for it to work. Which means writing more mundane problems. DC actually has discussed the problems with heroes marrying normal people before. In the 70s, (Earth-2) Robin and the Huntress discussed why Batman married Catwoman because only someone else who lived this life could understand him.
@@jonbrewer297 i mean i guess he has to be in trouble for their to be more, like meat to the stories i get it but it sucks to see one of your favorite superheroes get his ass handed to him in almost every way
he only gets tortured because the editorial can't stand that people don't either prefer Peter wkth Gwen like when they were kids or single and hooking up with the bimbo of the week. They're clearly the best for each other because the series earned it. The problem is the editors who refuse to do what's best for the characters and the story.
Mark….a 17 year old….should be able to balance his responsibilities of high school, a girlfriend, a part time job, and being a fucking Brand New SUPERHERO!? What? XD
It’s my personal headcannon that amber was just lying when she said she knew he was invincible, then realized how horrible she was being when she actually saw the kind of things mark was dealing with on a daily basis. Sure she saw the robots, and the injury from the “bus”, but my headcannon has her being stupid as opposed to being an actually horrible person.
problem is if she's just stupid, it makes Eve and Will also absolute idiots for fully siding with her. Plus it makes her whole "Holier than thou" and "I'm super smart and should be respected for it" traits even more pathetic
@@glawrk2861 it is defo forced but they handled the breakup in a nice way but people just never cared about the relationship, so that is why people say s2 was paced slowly
I'm so happy how season 2 turned out. Season 1 ruined her so bad was crazy. I've been in and still am in a relationship that started in high school as well. If I learned my girlfriend was a super hero who risked herr life when she was needed how could I explode at them
I liked Amber. She was a kind hearted person. At first she was too harsh with Mark, then she became more understanding of his duties but overall her problem was Mark was a superhero and their relationship was never going to last because of all the problems that would cause for them. I hope they remain friends. They at least seemed to end it being on good terms. They both matured as characters.
I have nothing wrong with Amber being raced swapped the opposite from the comics but I have a problem with the bad writing that went towards her character in the show like the producers of the invincible TV show went out of their to make her unlikeable in the sense she goes out with a boyfriend knowing he is invincible and is so self centered and doesn't acknowledge Mark has a world of his own and why? They could have had done so much more with her character and gave her valid reasons to break up with Mark and give Mark valid reasons why Eve was better a choice for him and this why he wants to end things with Amber in a respectful way so this would be even better as the break up would be a conscious decision where both parties mutually agree why this would be the right call to make. I like Invincible as a show and see it as a decent adaptation of the comic but man them screwing up with with the character of Amber puts a small dent in the enjoyment I have for the show but then again if the writters improve the story maybe this could be worked around.
People saying season 2 amber was much better, but honestly i didnt like her much in season 2 either. Their relationship was so forced it wasted so much time in the show. No chemisttry whatsoever, and there was no point to it by the end of the season
@@jhmxk When he points out way to better her part of the story which would make it closer to the comic, it is hardly out of topic. She was supposed to be the every girl and give a sense of realism to the whole story instead she became the worst part of season 1 and a source of dark joy for season 2.
I think Amber behaved accurately to what a 17 year old girl would do in such a stressful situation. She was wrong, and is a severely flawed and narcissistic character. But thats okay, and to be expected. My problem with the show is that it portrays Amber as faultless and Mark as a fuckup. If Eve and William were more empathetic, or even sided with Mark, I think Amber would be less of a hated character and more of a flawed character, her abrupt and seemingly random change in season 2 would be seen as character growth rather than backpedaling writers
The main grievance against Amber was her knowing about Mark being Invincible for weeks prior to him telling her so. I agree, but having Amber come back after the Omniman incident with, "Looks like I wasn't the only person being lied to..." Just added another layer to the Amber hate cake. Comparing Mark keeping his identity a secret from her (with her safety in mind, lest we forget), with what happened between him and his father (not to mention what it meant for his mother, and lots and lots of innocent people) was just...stupendously terrible. I can understand one writing mistake, but that line on top of it all? And not even a hint of an actual apology? It starts to sound less like a mistake and more like a double-down. The writers should have just leaned into it for season 2, and written her as the weird, narcissist sociopath that she was giving clear signs of being.
yeah that specific bit is actually what sealed me in on her being an absolutely awful person rather than just like, a college kid who kinda sucks. the rest of it wasn't great but people aren't perfect. THAT was just... like... imagine being such a petty, narcissistic scumbag that after your boyfriend's dad murders thousands of people, beats him into a coma, and his entire world is upended forever (along with millions of other people's, too), you just cannot stop yourself from making space for a dig about how you think he should've told you he was a superhero sooner. like, not only does she think their relationship troubles are equal in weight to a near-apocalypse and him getting beaten nearly to death by his own father, but she can't bring herself to get through ONE CONVERSATION with him without bringing it up. the rest of it just made me not like her much. THAT moment established her as actually insane.
She's an antagonistic control freak who wants to be morally and socially superior to everyone around her. She's the absolute worst type of person to be friends with, let alone DATE.
Amber was a much better character in the comic books and both her relation and breakup with Mark were done much better, they tried to fix her in Season 2 but that won't erase how awful and insufferable she was in season 1 .. race bending her to fill some DEI checklist didn't help either but it is the least of the character's problems.
“Oh yeah I’ve known exactly what you were doing (saving lives) every time you made an excuse and I’m still bitching cuz I’m woman who need to be more important than anything else in your life. Imma just keep bitching until you do the thing that apparently (“it’s cute you think that’s enough”) isn’t gonna be enough anyway. And you can’t even get mad or upset or challenge anything I say cuz if you do imma bitch about you being a jerk. Wah.”
Yeah tbh out of all the improvements the show has made from the comics, I will say Ambers character in her entirety was butchered. I get in the comics she wasn’t that interesting either and I’m pretty sure everybody including myself was just waiting for them to break up so mark and Eve could get together. But she was still decently written, she was the only normal part of Marks life, besides William, and she was definitely his support system early on in the comics. Show Amber was a toxic bitch throughout the entire first season especially towards the end, and tbh considering the fact that there wasn’t much more to do w her character they really shouldn’t have put them back together, but they did. And then Amber was just kinda there throughout the second season, because they didn’t have to do so much of the explaining and shit Mark had to do in the comics, because well she already knew. There was just nowhere left to go w her character and she was really just wasting time in the show lmao. Still better than season 1 just now she was just kinda there instead of actively making things bad. It also just didn’t make sense w her character, like she was just a rude ass bitch season 1 and then 2 comes along and all the sudden she’s all understanding and just kinda there
Great video. I've seen so many black people especially black women say that we don't like Amber in season 1 because she's a black woman which made me cringe so bad as a black man,myself.
I saw Amber as just there, you know? Not hot or cold, but lukewarm. But my overall ennui toward her is its own issue, since boring is the worst possible place to be in shipping. Of course, part of it is knowing the comics, knowing Mark and Eve are already endgame.
She was fine and completely understandable until she says she knew about him being a superhero. Then she gaslights mark to think him saving lives is bad because she should be his priority and not “lie” You did a great summary.
12:37 yes!! Mark wasn’t a great boyfriend but that’s not even why she was mad. She was mad because she wasn’t his queen. And it had been like… a 5 month relationship.
Literally if the show didn’t want to show how smart amber was by figuring out he was a super hero she would have been fine. But her knowing for weeks recontextulizes things to be really really nasty.
9:10 I would like to state that most if not all people would run away in this situation. It is very demanding of a non super hero to go out and save people while Putting their own life at risk. So why does amber get to state that he did the wrong thing although nearly anyone would do it given the situation.
Had Amber never said anything about knowing Mark was a superhero, no one would've been jumping down her throat on the matter. Given as smart as she tries to make herself to be, should know that a secret identity is one of the most important things for a superhero to have for many reasons. Yeah, the relationship was doomed to fail, especially them being in high school. But Amber took it too far given the extra context.
i really like this video; you do a good job of nailing what I didn't like about her in season 1, and mainly that the writers just act like she was perfect. for me, the nail in the coffin for Amber was when she equated Mark's attitude with his secret identity to what Nolan did in the finale. And to me, that was psychopathic.
I wonder what the idea was having Amber know Mark was Invincible? That was the dumbest decision to make. Amber better in season 2 but it also felt like she was different character and wish they ended it in episode 4 in season 2. Want on too long. Also. Yes. Having Mark and Eve call out Mark drove me crazy.
Honestly season 1 and season 2 Amber are just entirely different characters. Season 1 Amber was a flawless girl boss who literally had no personality flaws. She was absolutely just perfect. And to top it off she gave Mark crap and refused to understand him. Season 2 Amber actually had flaws and we saw her vulnerabilities. We saw that she actually did struggle with some classes. And she was sad when her grandfather passed. We even see her cry and break out into tears when she was threatened by Anissa. I see season 2 as a pivot by the writing staff. They intended her to be a perfect girl boss. And when she wasn’t received they decided to give her a lot more character flaws. But I’d say Amber just seem like she’s more “in the way” in both seasons. The relationship just never felt compelling
Every time they were about to break up I was happy. But it got to the point where I was like: "will it finally end now?" Although I imagine they did this to make him get with Eve, but I'd prefer if she never existed.
Amber acts like Mark is hiding his hero identity just to fuck with her, but theres a reason its a secret identity. Villains in the series wont hesitate to use or kill you if they know you are related in some way to the hero they hate.
I mean I agree mark was being a terrible partner but that was under the assumption she didn’t know he was a superhero. He was constantly flaking on plans, neglecting, her, etc; all terrible qualities in a romantic partner. Seriously screw the homeless shelter; I’d say stopping the earth from being destroyed is far more important then volunteering in a cafeteria.
14:59 The answer is actually quite simple. Don't enter a relationship with someone not in the know. Honestly, Mark's biggest failing in this relationship wasn't his time management, but his refusal to let the relationship die. He clearly wasn't yet ready to handle both being a hero and being a boyfriend at the same time.
Or at least being a boyfriend with HER. The problem was in it all was that as you said, Mark wouldn't let the relationship go despite how (I hate using this word too many times) toxic Amber was but I understand why he was hanging on. He felt it was probably the only relationship he was going to get because as kids, we have that feeling that our first crush is going to be *THE* one and Mark more than likely felt that. Hell, *I'VE* felt that and....'look' like Amber. But the problem is Amber continued to drag him on and she fucking knew it. That's what I hate so much because she is such a terrible, emotionally manipulative bitch. From the way she blackmails Todd that should have been clue ONE to how she uses people not because she's clever but because she wants to feel superior. She only wanted to date Mark so Eve couldn't have him as Eve is seen as the most popular girl in school and her (Amber) snipping him from Eve would have been seen as a power move. She essentially was using mark to elevate her social standings and the thing that sucks is Mark fell for it and kept trying to save the relationship for his own worries and thinking it would make her happy. Naw Mark, dump the bitch. She's only going to get worse as time goes on because Amber doesn't understand the concept of love OR friendship. All she understands is she can get people to whatever she wants if she guilts them enough.
"Mark should be getting his life together" Oh yeah, mark should totally make sure to schedule the Earth threatening events he constantly has to stop so they work around everything else. It's not like time is of the essence for any of it anyways. Yeah in case you can't tell, that argument is idiotic. Cecil isn't telling Mark anything in advance, it's all get up and go in that exact moment and half of it takes weeks to get done. Really hard to schedule an unshifting work schedule around invasions from another dimension that are entirely unpredictable. And he's so lazy, always faffing about in a hospital because he gets beaten to near death taking down a criminal organization that's driving people out of their homes instead of serving soup to the people that were driven out of their homes. What an asshole he is.
She knew Mark was a hero for months and gave him shit to the point where she was about to cheat on him, and season 2, I still didn't like her at this point, the damage was already been done and when they broke up, I was happy, and the funny thing it when Anissa threat to kill her, I was rule for Anissa to do it
I completely agree with everything but with season 2 done i think she changed completely and its kinda weird because now she just doesn’t give af about anything he does
Only one person has brought up the fact that she was willing to blackmail with their personal information. Mark doesn't know that. But we do. It makes it weird to think about, is he supposed to risk his safety and his family's for someone he barely known for less than a year?
That made her out to be a manipulative bitch more than someone who is clever, especially when it shows that she could have blackmailed Todd LONG AGO to get him to fuck off but she only does it when she wants to date Mark *AFTER* she sees that he and Eve got along so well, even if Eve is dating someone and therefor not in competition with her. She only saw dating Mark as an opportunity to increase her social status with the hope of molding him to agree with her thoughts. Mark is being flakey because it's his first relationship but Amber is so much fucking worse because this was never about romance to her. She just liked the *IDEA* of dating a guy who was now seen as the bravest kid in school.
to be completely honest, amber's biggest problem is: even if you have not read the comics, it's not hard to figure that mark and eve are endgame. this makes people feel like amber and mark's relationship is pointless because of course they are destined to break up someday.
You now the irony? The argument is that 'Black women can relate to Amber!" ...... I was more like Mark. ......And I'm a Black woman. I wasn't in after school social clubs, I wasn't in extra curriculum groups....I was the one weird Black chick that went home, did her homework and watched anime and saved up to buy manga and didn't know *WHAT* I wanted to be because I didn't feel like I actually fit in with the peer groups I was *SUPPOSED* to be with (let's just say, the young upcoming 'girl bosses' that we often see now) and as such I was on like the lower rungs of the caste system in highschool and even as an adult, there is still a sort of view of how you should present yourself if you want to be an 'intelligent empowered independent Black woman'....which is why I didn't like Amber, because she's nothing like how the comic portrayed her which was actually a funny joke. In the comic, Amber was scared Mark was doing illicit shit which is why she was concerned and the revelation to what was happening was actually relief to her even if they didn't remain a couple. So my question is why didn't they keep that sort of persona even if they race flipped her? It was like the moment they made her Black, she wasn't allowed to have that goofy, funny moment. Instead they made her the most condescending bullying person I've see and like I said, I AM BLACK and it bothers me that they honestly thought that doing that made Amber feel more 'real', on top of giving her all the stereotypes of what they believe Black girls read and want to study. Maybe it was apart of the joke but when the 'required reading list' came up for Mark I just....it's so damn tiring. Again, maybe that's apart of the joke but I've had too many encounters with that overly aggressive, gaslighting hardass mentality that again, I sided with Mark because *I KNOW HOW IT FEELS TO BE AIMLESS AND NOT FEEL LIKE YOU MEASURE UP*. Sometimes I still feel that way even though I have a job and get stuff done but I still don't meet the correct 'image' that people see that Black women, even fictional ones, have to walk. It doesn't help that they reveal Amber *KNEW* so her behavior and aggression towards Mark comes off as her just getting angry that she either can't benefit from his position as a hero the way she sees fit or that she refuses to understand his position of what he went through emotionally and physically given he came into his powers so late. Even more, they're still teenagers/college yet Amber behaves like some middle age woman hen pecking her husband for not living up to standards she keeps constantly changing to fit in with her peers vs actually forming a healthy relationship with Mark so in the end, no. I don't feel bad at all that it turned out bad because in this version, Amber comes off as a complete bitch to be around and on Mark's part it almost feels like there was some desperation to *BE* with someone without realizing what that actually means. It was his first relationship and he's still a kid so there is always room to grow but the problem is Amber was changed so needlessly into an archetype that yes, helped Mark be more sympathetic but he's already a sympathetic and relatable character just from his hero's journey alone. Amber's character change had the unintentional effect of adding to the sympathy because she reminded me too much of a lot of bad experiences I had from other girls but the problem is I don't know if the writers thought that was a joke or if they honestly believed what they did was write a 'realistic Black female character for Black viewers to relate to' because I couldn't relate to the scowling bitch at all. I mean, if it WAS a joke then they did land some of the stereotypes but I don't understand why she couldn't be Black *AND* a genuinely nice person as she was in the comics, especially with how the breakup was handled. It just rubs me the wrong way because it comes off that she couldn't be BLACK and a little bit perky. Instead they just with the nagging, needlessly condescending gaslighting guilt tripping route because they believe that makes her 'strong'. No, it just makes her a cunt. That shit ain't cute. Edit: And again to show that I like Mark a lot more, the whole situation between him and Todd was wonderful to me simply because, in an era where 'subverting expectations' means jack shit now I think that scene did it right. Mark has his powers but instead of 'teaching Todd a lesson' by potentially breaking every bone in his body, he pulls a move that shows just how Todd has nothing better to do. He actually let Todd has what he wants in 'beating him up' but when Todd finds out that he can't hurt Mark no matter how much he punches him, HE GIVES UP. That was actually a very clever thing for Mark to do because he found a way to defeat the bully without putting a hand on him or even humiliating him in a massive way. He just showed Todd how pointless he was acting and as a result Todd saw how pointless it was and left. Of course it being highschool the word is going to get out but Mark defeated Todd in a way where he didn't have to be aggressive or violent but instead used his brain and thinking skills. But that's sort of where I veer off when it comes to how Amber gives Mark her number. He had to MANIPULATE Todd in order to do so which actually says a lot about her. Todd is NOT supposed to be a sympathetic character at all but all of a sudden, Amber now has the ability to MANIPULATE him into giving her number to Mark which shows she could have easily gotten Todd off her back LONG AGO just by playing with him but only NOW does she actually use that tactic to get a boyfriend, NOT when she was actually being harassed prior to even paying attention to Mark. It would be funnier if Amber herself wasn't so abrasive and presented as a shallow ladder climber. Eve is the most popular girl in school but from the looks of things, there is a clear indication as to why; because Eve is more approachable and sociable. This is why I don't like people like Amber because she views her entire life as a petty competition and only cares to have things as a status symbol. She's incredibly shallow and not in a way that is funny to the plot. There are selfish characters that work because they're entertaining. Hell, TODD works as this because he's a one note bully but him getting manipulated into doing such a random thing for Amber *IS* funny for HIM but it doesn't look the same Amber because this shows you how much power she actually has to get bullies off her back because she knows how to use her words against them. Her problem is she doesn't stop with this demeanor on MARK who is in a position where it is understandably weird for him to tell the truth to her but she keeps digging and digging further and further only to reveal she knew. She KNEW his secret the whole time but didn't stop when it was clear that Mark was uncomfortable and felt cornered. Using the card is cheap but if the roles were reversed, more people have called Amber emotionally abusive and cheered for Mark (or female Mark giving this scenario) to leave. So I get that yes, Mark didn't know how to handle his relationship because this is his FIRST relationship and it's going to be weird and awkward, especially for someone of Mark's.....ahem, *SITUATION*. But the way Amber is written in this casts her as a completely toxic person. I've known girls like this before and her behavior, her actions? Everything she does and how she treats people is to validate herself and to feel socially and morally superior. Even if Eve had another boyfriend, her reaction to seeing the two getting along just by talking was one out of jealousy and spite. She wanted to SPITE Eve to take her down by snipping Mark from her before she had a chance to if Eve and here other BF broke up because Amber could already tell that Eve and Mark had chemistry but she wasn't going to allow 'Miss Popular' to win another one over her. Amber is an antagonistic control freak who took advantage of Mark's situation. She KNEW but continued to put him in socially awkward positions to 'test' him despite knowing how dangerous it would be if Mark blew his cover. So yeah, fuck Amber.
They really wanted a black woman as a lead character but were afraid to do anything with her. In season 1 she was an asshole and in season 2 she's way too understanding, it's like they can't write a woman just like they write any male character
I really emphasized with Amber up until she said she always knew. I don’t understand why they would even do that. It was such a weird thing to do, and I don’t know if it was in the comics or they added it for the show and what they were thinking but you really beautifully broke down why it was so frustrating. Nobody showed mark how he could’ve done better and that’s so disappointing.
They changed it from the comics. In the comics she was angry with him for vanishing during the robot attack. They fight, and instead of going to the frat party she invites a friend over to talk about it. Her friend helps her realize that he was a superhero (Amber also saw Mark jump down the window from her dorm and vanish shortly before that). She pieces together all the coincidences and evidence and realizes that he's Invincible. When the two of them meet later that night she asks him if he's Invincible and he says yes and shows her his cosutme and powers. So she's happy he's not doing something terrible or illegal and the problem is solved. I kinda get that it could be interesting to build up more tension into it, but they mishandled it horribly.
@@rb98769 It was funnier in the comic because Amber's has valid concerns over what Mark is doing, especially when you think about it and that she got angry at the possibility that he was hurting himself. She was angry but she was *CONCERNED* about him, not concerned if he made her look bad.
I hated amber when she knew mark was invincible the whole time snd still acts like a bicth, later episodes in season 2 she got a character development i think
It’s not even a development they just made her act like her comic counterpart in the comic she doesn’t even know so her anger is justified and understandable and when she finds out mark is a superhero she feels like a bitch but in the show she just knows and is a bitch for no reason
I swear, it felt like a completely different writer was tasked with Amber’s character. Because the rest of the female characters in Invincible were changed and expanded on in very interesting ways that improved them greatly. Hell, when Atom Eve does something impulsive or makes a bad decision in season 2 she’s shown consequences and is portrayed as in the wrong for being so careless. So, why was Amber written in such a strange way?
in the comics eve actively tries to sabotage amber and mark's relationship it was like she was cheering for it to be over here she accepted the fact eve is much better in every way too
@@namishjain9238 It honestly just felt like they tried way too hard to make Amber “strong”, “smart” and into the “social justice system” that they forgot to make her a good character. I’m not saying the comic version was perfect, but at least the whole “I have no agency” line when they were breaking up would’ve worked so much better with a version closer to the comics.
@@Raximus3000 Because Amber has to share Mark with the rest of the world and no one wants to share the person they love. Every special moment they could have could potentially be interrupted by his duty to save the world and she just has to be cool with that. That is a tough ask.
@@Seven7swords You'd excuse me if i do not feel bad because "a privilaged person did not get her pony." It is petty and if you compared it to the comic it is a downgrade. Add it to the first season and i feel no pity for her.
@@Raximus3000 Yes, season 1 Amber was illogical and just an a hole. Season 2 Amber is much more reasonable. My personal experience has put me in Mark's shoes where my duty has caused me to miss birthdays, my marriage anniversary and holidays and I talked to my wife about how these events effected her and the kids. So I get how Amber wants to be supportive of Mark being a hero but she still wants him to be with only her. Just like my wife wants to be supportive of my military career but she rather me be at home.
@@Seven7swords That only works if you completely disregard season 1... Which is absurd. She is the same character, in theory. Her role is to be the girlfriend who could not handle in a relationship with Invincible. It is an understandable situation since like you said takes sacrifices that most could not make. It fails on that because firstly she was not shown to be an ordinary person and secondly because even when that is the end goal the writers desperately tried to make it seem like her not being able to be that kind of person does not make her less. Her pretentiousness in the end really did not help me like her. She is a self abosorved person since all she cared was herself never did she feel worried about Mark.
I agree with a fair bit of your points, but, your definition of an ultimatum is a little off. What you described is a boundary which is healthy, an ultimatum is when you allow a behavior for a while then snap change and use the threat of leaving to force your partner to do something or change something.
At 16:41, when he says that he doesn't want support from people who have turned their backs on me because "they might do it again," it is a very valid point. The thing about bad people is when they've done something bad once, they WILL do it again. People who are there for you at your lowest point are your real friends. It's at dire and critical moments when you see people who they really art. Amber is not a good person and Mark shouldn't want to have anything to do with her. However, I'm not Mark so I can't decide for him.
One thing that I think does set people off is the fact that she was race swapped, AND had her attitude & personality shifted to be way more bitchy. While race swaps *_do_* put fans on edge (rightfully so given the poor track record) despite the pop culture "gamer men just don't like minorities!" strawman very few people actually give a shit in-isolation and only respond negatively because it's a growing trend (see anything Marvel) for swaps to be done for idealogical rather than story reasons. Case and point for this is Isaac from the first Castlevania series. He is a major race and character swap, but he's extremely well written and still echos many ideas & themes of his original form, while at the same time heavily countering other aspects. Additionally the writers passed up several political points they could have made and instead chose to write his past fitting the lore and reality he was in. Yes he was a slave, but not in the contemporary western sense; his history was clearly just part of his character and not being used as a soapbox for the writers. (For contrast reference whatever that french girl's name is from Castlevania Nocturne) In short, basically no-one dislikes race swaps *_because_* its a race swap, they don't like them because, generally speaking, they're done for idealogical/political reasons that either directly fuck over the story or don't technically directly contradict it, but are still clearly being used by the writers to make an out-of-universe point, and when the audience feels the hand of the writer it does still compromise the experience. ( *_especially_* when that hand is punching them in the face ) So, when Amber was race swapped, explicitly called 4th wave feminist IIRC, is looking for a gender studies degree, has 'political activist' as a major character trait, *_AND_* the writers decided to make her a strong independent whamen who don't need no Invincible and can save lives all on her own thank you *_very_* much, it paints a fairly clear picture. Again, as Isaac proved the fans don't care if you change a character and it's good, but yes, if you change aspects of the story or characters and make them much worse people are going to ask "why the fuck did you change this?". A lot of people want to just write off race swaps entirely because they see those complaints a racist and don't want to be a racist, but just because you're colorblind you don't go to a minstrel show. *_Other people_* may still factor race into their worldview and, particularly for Amber, that does seem to be part of what happened. If some random new-baddie-from-an-old-group-in-germany (blame youtube) made a movie adaptation of Crysis and cast Lawrence Barnes as a white guy I'd be equally hesitant. Just the same if the actor managed to play the character extremely well, they were well written, the story seems to stand on it's own, etc. it'd all be fine. However, if I then noticed certain odd consistencies with how he was being rewritten, now I'm learning that the writers intentionally changed his character for their own idealogical reasons, and yeah, I'm gonna be a bit miffed. I like his character and the story he's in and if I learn you let your own biases and shitty political takes get in the way of a good adaptation of him and that story it'd be entirely fair to complain. You had something great to work with and could have just ctrl-c ctrl-v-ed it, but you *_chose_* to rewrite it and make it worse. Fuck 'faithful' give me good, is the adaptation good? If you can't edit the adaptation to be better, don't edit it, be faithful. (Assuming the original was good that is) There are a few edge cases where a faithful adaptation miiiight not work due to differences in medium, but even then it'll likely have *_some_* merit still. But, generally speaking, you ain't going to Starship-Troppers-it and make a good movie while actively misunderstanding and trying to write over the original. (The director did not even remotely understand the book and tried to make it a parody of fashizm, buuuut the book was like *_ultra_* libertarian with a straight up fantasy level of government transparency and accountability because it was written quickly as more of a "
Honestly, I think it would have been better if they leaned more into it, like Amber was a sociopath who gets off on the idea of having a (arguably the strongest) hero wrapped around her finger, then just killing her off. In season 2, Amber was just taking away from everything else. I wanted more, but then Amber had to show up and pump the brakes. If she were trying to manipulate Mark in some way to better her career prospects or personal agenda in some way, I would have cared. But instead, season 2 Amber is that annoying roommate that just won't stop bugging you.
That's the thing I don't get; I hate this trend of having the partners of superheroes act like their partner being this super being is suddenly *THEIR* problem and now we have to guilt the hero for doing their job on top of trying to keep the people around them safe. Amber in the comics was mad because she thought Mark was doing something like smoking crack or other harmful things but finding out he was a hero was much better. If I found out my boyfriend was a super hero I'd be so mesmerized that the concept was even possible to begin with. ANGER would be the very last thing on the list.
Before watching: they over did it in S1 then tried to course correct for S2 but in doing so they over corrected... Now, I just want her gone (mostly due to the fact they canonically break up around this time).
I think it's genuinely very hard to tell how much of this issue was bad characterization of Amber and how much was the writers failing to write teenagers well. Because everything pretty much all of them did makes sense when you consider that teenagers are not exactly the best at things like impulse control or critical thinking - but on the other hand the writers make it very easy to forget that, in Season 1, some of these characters are literal children, and they don't really do much to build on that idea or have it come to the forefront of peoples minds. The show explored a lot of themes and it's no surprise that not all of them could pan out in the first season, so hopefully it will be done more justice as the show's run continues.
Being 17 is literally not an excuse to her actions, Mark was in a life or death situation more often than she could have had dates with Mark. The fact they're both new to the relationship and Mark just becoming a super hero is the problem. He wasn't popular in school and he didn't excel in anything much but was and did. She's supposed to be the smarter of the 2 yet she was the most childish by wanting Mark to reveal too much about himself. The fact she knew his secret prove 2 things, the fact she doesn't care about his problems when her own is more important to her. And that she doesn't realize the world she lives in to assume him being a super hero isn't enough of an excuse to accept "why" for anything. The point of secret identities is to protect people like her, she may not hate him but she as hell doesn't respect him or his fight. He had all the reasons to turn against humanity, to be the only of the 2 to be more human.
I also dislike how he just randomly says "By now Mark should have adjusted" as if anyone in real life even comprehends what being a super hero facing beings who could theoretically kill you with a thought until you actually see them do something, and constantly putting your life on the line while dozens (till Omni changed it to thousands) die in front of your eyes as you try to save them. Like bro, mark already wasn't the best at school, already wasn't exactly working the greatest job out there (Also moving around in such an enclosed space near dangerous items (hot grease etc) makes it significantly more likely you're gonna get exposed as a superhero). How can you possibly expect him now that he's devoting ALL his free time into SAVING THE WORLD to be adjusting as well as a normal teenager??????????
I know you probably won't see this comment but if you somehow happen to I'd like to see your response to the vidos Johnny 2 Cellos made about this
First and foremost, I wasn't expecting anyone else to make a video about this in 2024, especially a larger creator. Amber was a completely different character after she forgave Mark and was even kind of boring in season 2.
It was interesting to see two different opinions from the only two videos recently released on the topic and funnily enough are arguments were mostly similar. We used the same evidence when discussing Mark not being a good boyfriend. Amber not being a monster, but a normal highschooler with character flaws. My takeaway was that she was ultimately a bit in the wrong and his takeaway was that she was ultimately in the right.
I think it comes down to our lived experiences being different. I found Amber's manipulation with the outburst against Mark after he saved from her the cyborg while she knew what he was doing and the additional outburst after the trip particularly egregious, and he agrees that it was wrong of her to do that. He found Mark's dishonestly and lack of communication for months to be worse, and honestly that's a fair opinion.
I thought his video was well made, I just slightly disagreed with it.
I understood her side until she said she'd known about Mark being a superhero for like 3 weeks
Yeah it was that specific line that changed my entire perception of the character. If she has already known about Mark's secret for the past few weeks, then her accusatory behavior toward him during the university episode no longer makes sense anymore.
She went from being a sympathetic figure that had justifiable frustrations with her crappy boyfriend, to being a weirdly entitled and manipulative person that plays mind games for the pettiest reasons. It was a very unfortunate writing choice.
@@loco_logic
The writers didnt plan it that way. But shes a Mary Sue. And they do everything and figure everything out on their own. Even if it makes no sense.
@@DmanDice I once saw an interview where Kirkman basically admitted that it was indeed an unintended writing mistake. Episodes 6 and 7 had two different head writers. Usually they're pretty consistent about that stuff, but the revelation that Amber had known about Mark's secret for weeks in EP 7 caused an unintentional continuity error with episode 6 (the university).
In their effort to make Amber appear smart by figuring out her boyfriend's identity, they accidentally ended up making her look like a manipulative a-hole instead. So yeah, they had no idea how much of a ripple effect that one mistake would cause, completely ruining her character for a lot of the audience lol
@@loco_logic She was annoying, to the audience, but had understandable problems with Mark (that scene where he's getting his ass beat at Machine Head's Tower while Eve goes to the shelter with Amber was probably my favorite use of her character). She should have dumped him, or something along those lines, instead of constantly holding it over his head. It was already a bit manipulative, but that single line made her just seem despicable. If they removed that singular line, gave her basic human empathy, I feel like the season 2 arc would have been great.
The whole time though I was just thinking how they retconned her constant smugness, she suddenly became super supportive (like when Mark asked about going to space, and she acted like of course she'd never hold that against him), and just... she's a different character. The only thing that's the same is the voice and the face.
@@mq8858 Agreed. Amber's personality in S2 feels like a desperate overcorrection.
Funny enough season 2 Amber has the opposite problem where now she’s too understanding and her and Mark are just wasting screen time holding on to a dead relationship 🤔
I think that’s the point.
yeah that i fucking hate it
@@squidzerohero yeah that would be cool if I didn't have to wait 3 years with an added 4 month gap in b/n.
If you're gonna keep leaving me on cliffhangers the last thing I want is to spend time with this plot line
Fr I was hating one episode till anissa appeared, I thanked anissa for saving the episode… then I saw the spoilers of what she does later
Thank you. It’s annoying I wish the show just ended their relationship since they broke up and never came back. It’s such a whiplash her change and they have no reason to have them in a relationship other than ugh relationship struggles.
Amber revealing that she knew he was invincible and still not understanding Mark’s side is what made the fan base not like her. I admit she was more understanding and patient in season 2, but the damage was done already. She just serves to prove the point that first impressions really do matter, even in fictional story telling.
@Him535 I mean sure but there's a line between a little unhealthy and completely sociopathic. Amber saw Invincible almost die against the Cyborgs to protect her and everyone else there, but then when Mark showed up she immediately starts insulting him for abandoning them instead of being thankful or worried about him. Her doing that while knowing his identity is just sociopathic. It's not something you could forgive as just kids being stupid.
But at the same time I've heard this whole problem apparently stems from a writing error that happened because those two episodes had different head writers. Basically the one who added that "I've known for 3 weeks" line just wanted to make Amber seem smarter than she is in the comics. They didn't realize the fucked up implications. They should've communicated more and realized the mistake but I can forgive that. So I try to pretend that line never happened which makes Amber decently likable even if she's a bit self-righteous. I kind of wish that they'd retconned it in universe. Like have Amber admit that she was lying to keep her composure and only found out about Mark's identity when he told her. But I guess it would've been hard to fit that in organically.
@Him535 true, but with so much gore and serious topics the show tackles, it’s more often than not, easy to forget they are just high school kids. What can I say, flaws of a human ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@ap7635 You make valid points, Amber's actions during the university scene were weird at the very least. But I feel like a LOT of people here, including many youtubers taking on the topic (this isn't targeted), have a very different mindset or just plain doesn't understand what is going on.
Aside from that error, I can completely understand how Amber operates. And as I can see it the show/comic source probably takes care to paralell it's themes in itself. Example is Angstrom egotistically stating "I use my powers for good" and the results of it being parallel to Atom Eve going around using her powers for "good" only for those to come back and bite her in the ass.
Mark and Amber's relationship is the mimicry of what Debby and Nolan supposedly had (or have when the relationship starts)
So if we go by Amber figuring out who Mark is, which mind you is reasonable actually, then she might want such a relationship "Mark helps a lot of people and I like that, I want to be part of it" which is suggested because she invites mark to her (not so) humble way of helping people. But of course she doesn't want to be an accessory for an alter-ego, that's why it would have been important for Mark to tell her, if he wanted the relationship to be serious. And he wanted to, not ony did he say it, he even chosen college based on his currect relationship (generally considered a bad move).
It shouldn't be controversial to think that for a serious relationship you have to include the other person in your life and for Mark that means sharing his real identity with Amber, whom believes herself to be virtous and strong and all that, someone who can take being the partner of a superhero (which could be take nas a metaphor for a lot of things).
This means however, that Amber revealing this to mark would rob him from making the decision to commit (which is the topic of S2). And honestly I would be rather pissed at someone who keeps lying to me and would say "okey, if this is how you want it, I'll play dumb along with you."
So yeah, not telling Amber means Mark doesn't want a serious relationship with her to which she is right to break up. Telling him that she knew he was invincible would mean Mark can no longer make the decision to do so, since it was made for him.
It's another thing of course, that turn out Amber in fact cannot take the heat and immediately chickens out. All that posturing for nothing.
But as the other guy said, cringe it might be, it makes sense for 19 year olds to be rather dumb.
@StayMinty11 The problem is the series never addresses the fact that Amber was in the wrong. Throughout the whole of season one, everyone acted like Mark was being a crappy boyfriend for not entrusting Amber with his biggest secret, simply walking off from something like that just isn't something you do.
I mean Ahsoka (from Clone Wars) is a great example of a character overcoming first impressions, when the showrunners have a good plan for the character. It just feels like they didn't have a good plan for Amber.
the changes on season 2 is so drastic she doesnt feel like the same character, but hey thats a good thing.
They did the best with what they had (total retcon, pretend like nothing happened) but I wish we could have seen a more human (empathetic) Amber in season 1 and a more human (plot device, unemotional) Amber in season 2.
Honestly it's not really a good thing. Season one she was toxic season 2. They tried making her so redeemable that her character is genuinely nothing. Now. She's perfect at everything. Doesn't have any problems. Doesn't have a goal to get to and serves as a placeholder to save money on screen time
Hot take I like the character growth of Amber losing her personality and being terrified gradually as Mark's superhero life seeps in. Even if there wasn't too much done with it I liked the scenes where they're not talking to each other
I wish it didnt take up the entirety of the season but ya get what you get, it was better than S1
@@kawaiibats2822 yeah im missing a scene where amber after omni mam scapes earth realizes mark burden and decides to stop bitching and support him, but it was at the cost of loosing
prt of her personality or smt like that
how is inconsistency a a good thing?
As everyone in the comments is pointing out, Amber has completely turned around from this in season 2. The only thing that still makes me hate her is that she had absolutely no character arc to make the change into a more sympathetic person. The writers just knew that people hated her because of how awful of a human being she was and just rewrote her instead of building her up to be a better person.
Exactly, I even say they pushed her so far onto the other side it's jarring. She completely lost her sarcasm, humor, personality. She's just Mark's gf in season 2, not Amber. Something in between complete fucking monster and doormat would've been great
Awful human being? From what, 3 scenes that contradicted her previous characterization? Are you insane?
There are literally 3 scenes that are an issue, nothing more. The 2 scenes between them at college when they're fighting and the final break up scene.
Nothing else is an issue. Even amber checking on Mark after breaking up makes sense. She still did have feelings for him and someone she was just with nearly died in a close to world ending fight. Anyone who can't see this as reasonable is actually a monster who has no idea of the complexity behind human emotion and how hypocritical it can be.
@@mentalpopcorn2304ad hominen moment
@@mentalpopcorn2304 She waited until he was talking to another girl to make her move, she clearly enjoyed the power over Mark she had, she held his time commitment issues over his head to make him owe her instead of just leaving, the ultimatums that she went back on, the insanity of that rant at the college (If she knew, what the actual fuck; if she didn't, why the fuck does she expect him to be as suicidal as her?), and ofc the breakup where she was mad at him for not telling her his identity. If she knew, and was half as intelligent as she is portrayed, SHE'D HAVE TOLD HIM 3 WEEKS AGO SO HE DIDN'T HAVE TO KEEP LYING!
She's manipulative, emotionally abusive, and just cruel, and the writers try to gaslight everyone with the other characters to make it Mark's fault. It's disgusting.
@@mq8858 bro so true. Like if she understood any part of what being a public image (especially a superhero) is like she'd know it's stupid dangerous for him and her if she knows and is a part of all of it, which she even recognizes in season 2, so like why not just leave or tell him or both.
Amber was problematic in season 1, and season 2 was more understanding
Almost like season 1 didn't happen
Yeah, she almost didn't feel like the same character... If she admitted she might have put too much pressure on Mark in the past, it would have acknowledged the issues in her character and make her evolution more natural.
I lowkey liked season 2 Amber because season 1 was so long ago that I forgot most of it and it was easy to pretend a lot of it didn't even happen.
and boring
She finally started taking her bipolar meds again
I resent the fact that you claim that Mark solely stood up for Amber when she was getting harassed because he was hoping to awaken his powers. Granted that would have definitely helped motivate him, but that doesn’t discount the truth that Mark has a strong sense of justice and its well established that he is motivated to help and protect others even at the expense of his own well being. No one else did anything to help Amber in her time of need, Mark did even when he still didn’t have his powers. He faced someone bigger, stronger and more aggressive. Amber only “saved” Mark when he gave her a perfect opening since the bully was too focused on beating him. You criticize Mark for not checking up on Amber after she was harassed by the bully when HE WAS THE ONE WHO GOT HIS ASS BEAT.
You say he goes from pathetic to confident, I strongly disagree. Mark was never pathetic. He stood up to bully’s even when that very much ended up hurting him. That’s very admirable and not something to be looked down on by you. Do you look down on people that die in the line of duty because they didn’t come out victorious? Obviously it would be cooler and sexier for him to beat up the bully rather than be the one that gets beaten up. That doesn’t change the fact that standing up for someone else against someone more aggressive and stronger is brave and admirable rather than being something pathetic or to be looked down on like you say. You criticize Mark for confronting the bully from behind , my question to you was what do you want him to do? Did you expect him to walk in front of him before confronting him? That’s dumb. He still stood up to him face to face when the bully turned around and then sucker punched Mark. Mark did show himself to be an inexperienced fighter but that in itself isn’t something to look down on him for when confronting someone who doesn’t think twice when sucker punching him.
You also gloss over the fact that Amber compares Mark keeping his secret identity from her the same as his father lying to him his whole life about his intended conquest of earth. Not at all the same and frankly insulting that she would even make such a comparison.
Yeah that moment just kind of came out of nowhere in the Video.
I aint reading allat
I think what angers me the most about Amber is the way she just suddenly becomes understanding just because Mark told her about his secret identity. Where was the greater good before? Was it not as important when you knew he wasn't telling you the full truth? Should people have been left to die against villains just because your boyfriend didnt want to put your life at risk like what happened when Anissa came?
I genuinely think they only made a change like that because they desperately wanted people to be sad when Mark and Amber broke up, rather than celebrate.
😬 Didn't work for me, not that I jumped up and cheered, but even understanding why, I was still happy it was over
I think they changed her character because of the backlash. Because s1 amber wouldn't have stayed all 8 episodes. To be fair most characters or regular people wouldn't stayed so patiently. Season 1 Amber and s2 Amber are completely different imo
@jhmxk totally agree. They changed amber just because the fans were overwhelmingly hating her
And that wasn't the writers' intentions in the first season
@@jhmxk
And it was all them, the Amber in the comics is a regular person who could not stay in that relationship and that gave a sense of realism to the whole story.
In the show on the other hand it is contrived and bizzare, not to mention pointless and detrimental to the story.
My favorite bit from her in season 1 was, after witnessing Mark get beaten almost to death by his own father after being lied to for his entire life, she goes to him and takes him back literally saying "we were both lied to :(".
Just straight gaslighting him and equating "my boyfriend lied about being a superhero" and "my dad is a mass murdering alien psychopath who killed his coworkers in a bid to ready the planet for an alien takeover, killed thousands of innocent citizens and used me as a body shield to rip apart an entire subway train, traumatizing me horribly".
Like, this was 100 percent a conscious decision on Amazon's part. It's evil for no real reason
Yet in season two amber says to Adam eve “we were both lied to” again equating rex cheating on her multiple times through their entire relationship to, my bf of like 2 weeks didn’t tell me he just got superpowers EXTREMELY recently
I don't think it's intended to be gaslighting, she's just poorly written in the show IMO.
@@rb98769 I mean even in real life it doesn’t matter if you did or didn’t mean it to be gaslighting, that’s just what it was
That's not what gaslighting means
Season 2 amber was a great turnaround and the end of ep 7 made me empathize a lot with her
She is the same Amber. Most ppl simply weren't paying attention to why she was angry with Mark.
@@crescendyr8438no she’s not she was literally upset with him for lying about his identity even though he only lied for the EXACT reason that happened with anissa in ep. 7 and she also acted crazy like her boyfriend didn’t have an obligation to help people(with that being said she was in high school i’m sure anyone in her place would’ve acted like that, it’s just no one else on the show did so it made her look worse) but she definitely was more understanding in season 2
@@crescendyr8438they saw the hate to her character in season 1 so they completely changed her in season 2 to be better not even the same character anymore though
@@burner2burner1 she explicitly tells you what she was made at, which you ignore. She was never angry at him for saving people. She was upset that he treated her like she was stupid and took her for granted. She was pretending not to know to give him a chance to come clean. And she gave him more time than any girl should. If Mark can't manage a normal relationship he should not be in one. He doesn't get to stand a woman up, be late all the time and bail on her and not be honest with her about why. She was testing his character. If he wants to protect her he should have dumped her and moved on instead of being a selfish entitled pr1ck.
@@dx-dragon4399 but still unlikable and not even interesting
Unfortunately, Amber suffers from a condition called bad writing.
Honestly, this anaylsis of season 1 Amber was being generous by leaving out a couple lines that really sold why she was so insufferable. Yet, somehow they managed to convince us to care just a little bit in late season 2. But, it says a lot that in season 1, Amber was easily the most hated character, even more hated than Rex. Rex was literally written to be an asshole in season 1. Yet, he was funny.
Which lines?
He's also pretty much exclusively an asshole in s2... but seems like he may start to grow moving forward. Also, I think it's a bit more playable because honestly I don't think it's THAT far from other quippy characters like The Flash or Spider-Man. Especially TASM Spider-Man. Sure, Peter is usually more or less nice to non-criminals, to allies... but he's kind of a dick in the Garfield movies even a bit to Flash, isn't he? And Flash is supposed to bully Peter, not the other way around lol.
Rex just feels like a step or two past Garfield's Peter, imo. Less discerning with the targets of his quips.
Not saying he's not an asshole, because he is... and I don't really like him. I don't even find him funny, for the most part... but especially with this season setting him up to be less of one going forward, and even before that we could see some sincerity poke through at times... I don't really hate him, either. Amber definitely pissed me off more.
@@kingofpigs6630 he kinda skipped over Amber's line of "I had pretty much already dumped you", when talking to Mark whom as far as she knew, got hit by a bus and was clearly in rough shape. Even if she felt that way at the time, telling him that if it wasn't for the fact that Mark got "hit by a bus", she would be ready to dump him is insensitive at best, and manipulative at worst.
He also skipped over her reasoning for getting back together with Mark being, "I guess I wasn't the only one being lied to..." a line that is wildly inconsiderate of what Mark is going through, still treating Mark as the bad guy in their relationship, comparing Mark lying to her to Nolan secretly being a genocidal murderer, just days after Mark got beaten to a bloody pulp by his father, having his whole world shattered, finding out his childhood was almost all a lie, and having his dad leave. Right after all that, her line to Mark was comparing him in their relationship to his father. That's at the very least wildly inconsiderate, and if she was doing it on purpose, it's also extremely toxic.
@@amokriinprolgiid3409it’s unreasonable to dump him after failing her again, unless it was an emergency? Are you stupid? Actually you are why am I asking duh
@@amokriinprolgiid3409 thanks for answering
They really changed Amber for S2. She's much easier to sympathise with this time around.
I think that is because she didn’t get as much screen time as other people compared to last season I think it is because they were scared that amber would get more hate
@@thatonekid8794amber really shouldn’t have gotten hate they should have stuck to the comic since in the comic she didn’t even know and actually had a real reason to be upset and when she found out he was a hero she felt like a bitch they just completely killed her character comic amber is ok show amber is a complete bitch and shouldn’t have existed should have just stuck to the comics
@@thatonekid8794 I do think the hate at Amber was justified for S1. Mark's concerns about telling her were validated in S2 as well proving she was wrong to be angry at Mark trying to keep her away from that side of his life.
The writers of the show know about the backlash, so they drastically changed her character for the 2nd season.
@@corneliusbrunneis7208 They changed her character WITHOUT the incremental progression. It sucks because every other character shows normal progression, even Omni-Man
The issue people have with how amber is handled is that the show treats Amber like she is completely in the right and Mark is completely in the wrong.
a 5 month relationship isnt enough for a superhero to reveal his identity
Not even mentioning this is a superhero who JUST awakened his powers
Why not? She been solid the whole show until mark kept lying to her
@@Figgs101 its a five month old relationship. do you tell her all your trauma after 5 months of being together???
@@Georgzkefallinoz Nobody is telling him to tell her bout all his trauma she just got tired of him flaking on her and lying to her face all the time..he could’ve said he’s invincible sooner to save himself the headache🤷♂️
@@Figgs101 i wasnt talking about mark, i was talking about YOU would YOU tell your girl of five months all the trauma you've been through?
the main problem i had with the amber character in the show is that they actually knocked it out of the park in the comic.
in the camics it was a really smart, mature and mutual break up where they admitted they cared for each other but also both registered that it wasnt working. and then went on to be in each others lives and close friends. it was amazing to read such a good example of how break ups dont have to be horrible and can in fact be good for both people if everyone can be grown ups.
I thought this was going to be a "trash Amber nonstop" video. This was put together really well, and it made perfect sense.
Very rational and logical. I agree with just about everything you said.
The only thing that I'd add is that she lied to Mark. She was lying by omission. She pretended that she didn't know his secret instead of just being honest. Not the worst kind of lie, but neither was his.
But still, i like the fact that you pointed out how young they were.
@@HK47_115 Do you actually have a question for me? Or did you just want me to read that?
@@HK47_115
I liked this video. I like the editing, pacing, and the overall script. It was a good video about an older topic. I'm sure there are millions of similar videos out there on this topic. I'm sure that they're millions of shorts, tweets, video essays, and social media post about it. I haven't watched them. I haven't read them. I'm sure that they're fine. Or maybe they aren't. I'm not interested in finding out. What I do know is that this video served it's purpose and I'd watch more of his content.
1. I asked a very simple question. "Do you actually have a question for me?" Seems like your less interested in having a conversation and more interested in monologuing. Nothing wrong with that.
2. You obviously aren't aware of this because you have know way of knowing, because you didn't ask...but I haven't watched thousands, hundreds, or even dozens of videos on this topic. Maybe you have and you seem to be a bit bothered by it all. That's unfortunate. I watch the content that I actually like. The algorithm doesn't choose for me.
3. I typically don't watch "rage" videos. I don't usually watch videos that are full of whining, complaining, or just hate. It's just TH-cam so I often just judge the video by the thumbnail or the title. So I skip videos that start off with "this is why people hate xyz" or "this is why fans are angry about xyz." It's a matter of person preference.
4. I'm an older guy and I've realized that no matter how positive I try to be, someone will eventually attempt to "comment section fight" over nothing. I was being genuine when I asked if you had a question for me. I'm not against having long conversations in a comment section. I'll have that conversation even if it's about content that I might not even care about. But I typically try to ignore people that start out by trying to "push buttons" or antagonize. You have the tone of a comment section antagonist.
5. The show is fine. I'm a fan. I don't read the comics because I'm literally just a casual fan of the content. I'm not a super fan, a fanatic, or a die-hard. I just like the show. I don't spend time online consuming hours of content related to the show. I've seen a few entertaining reviews, I avoid spoilers, and I leave it at that.
6. In all honesty, I was annoyed at how you approached me. You didn't ruin my day but you succeeded if you wanted bother me. It was the unnecessary disrespect. And I know, it's the internet. And I know, I could have just ignored you. Especially since I didn't get online for an argument or a debate. Why did I respond? Curiosity.
I was confused about why you were so...emotional. As if you were offended by something that I'd say. But now I understand.
7. This seems like an outlet for you. Maybe you have a successful channel of your own and maybe you don't. But it seems like you're just a guy who has some free time on his hands and you just want to express yourself. The comment section allows you to speak without interruption. You can be blunt, rude, short, disrespectful and you don't have to worry about backlash.
I spend a lot of my free time online too. Nothing wrong with that. I use to argue about things that didn't really matter to me. Or I would argue about things that I was really passionate about. The point is, I didn't mind an argument nor did I mind being argumentative. So when I say "I get it" I really do.
8. The insults. Hey, you don't strike me as the type of person that's easily offended. I, on the other hand, can be "triggered" easily but it really just depends on my mood.
That being said, I'm not going to trade insults with you. It wasn't my goal to be negative when I left my initial comment so I won't start now.
9. As I said before, you succeeded in irritating me. Or annoying me. So if I came off as irritated or annoyed, that's why. I don't offer any apologies nor would I expect you to accept any.
10. My tone and temperament might have changed throughout this response. Still, I don't believe that I've been disrespectful.
I feel that you went out of your way to be disrespectful towards me. Is it a big deal? No. It's just funny to me because it's at least somewhat unexpected. I go out of my way to avoid disrespect and I pay respect when it's due. I avoid videos that are likey to produce comment sections that are full of disrespect and "negative vibes."
But I end up showing a little support to a TH-cam creator, by interacting in his comments..... and I get a lecture. That's funny.
@@HK47_115 I knew I forgot something. Do you actually have a question for me?
A question other than "What is the algorithm been feeding you?"
Do you have a question about the video, my take on the video, my take on the show, my opinion on Amber?
I guess what I'm trying to ask is do you have a question for me, or not? I'm reiterating because you missed it the first time I asked.
I read your comment and it really didn't apply to me. I replied accordingly.
@@jasoncarter1869 FUCKING FORGET IT DUES!!! I've made this reply a thousand times but TH-cam keeps deleting it. TH-cam keeps deleting it. I can't make my point because TH-cam keep f**king deleting it!!!!!!
JUST STOP RESPONDING!!! FORGET IT!! FORGET!!! Because you're going to do the exact same thing everybody and every fucking comment section does you're going to gaslight me and then sit there and say you did nothing wrong with your first reply was beyond disrespectful!
Add TH-cam keeps deleting my sh*t so I can't even make my point so f**king forget it!!! Literally wrote this comment five times already and TH-cam keeps deleting it so just forget it, forget I exist, delete your reply, I don't fucking care what you do my guys, FORGET IT!!!
Christ I can tell just by the first sentence you didn't even read my comments. So I'm going to give you the same f**king courtesy and I'm not reading a single thing you said. Not that it matters. Every time I try to address anything TH-cam keeps deleting my comments so just fucking leave me alone!! I am beyond tired of you immediately illiterate **** and youtube DELETING every f***ing comment I make!
For anyone wondering about this (cuz HK47 deleted their comments), HK47 just started monologuing (i probably spelt that wrong, but idc) about how there are tons of videos on this, about how great he is at understanding stories, etc. Then after OPs first response, he talked about how illiterate OP must be for not understanding anything and not reading more than 10 words.
It was just a really weird "conversation".
The way people say Mark was a bad boyfriend just puzzles me. He did his best and everyone gave shit for him, no one tries to be in his shoes
Yeah, I'm with Mark even with his flaws. He was trying his best to do right by what he's suddenly given as well as Amber but Amber is clearly trying to reshape him in an image she'd prefer of him and not in a positive way.
as someone who has seen your face irl years ago, this is wild
Dude I like amber I really do but she knows he's a hero and still gives him crap about it "you didn't do this you didn't do that" DUDE HES A HERO STOP GIVING HIM CRAP ABOUT IT and dude if she thinks he's dishonest that's cool but once again he's a hero he knows she'll be targeted if she wants him to be honest she needs to be honest LIKE TELLING HIM SHE KNOWS HES A HERO she thinks hes lucky to have her but shes lucky to have him comic book amber was flawed but atleast she wasn't a jurk about it
How is she lucky? She almost got killed and was help hostage 💀 like yea im season one is understandable but in season 2 she’s all for mark and support mark when he goes away for 2 months like she’s literally traumatized rn by being almost killed
@animelife9302 couldn't be me getting folded just kidding I never said anything bad about season 2 amber which I do like her but still in season 1 she's garba-
@@animelife9302 the hate is just from s1......people cant forgive it 😂
Bro answered the question of the video in the thumbnail 💀💀
It’s how you get the views
@@CheddarBeans no... It isn't
I mean, you clicked.
@@Eavontide not because of the thumbnail
@@AfroSynergy but you still clicked anyway
you saw the "yes" in the thumbnail, but still clicked, most likely because it's not a short answer that you want
The only real bad part about Amber was the bad writing with Mark telling her about him being invincible. It was uncharacteristic of her to act like that and it was just bad writing because if she knew he was invincible then realistically she would understand. If they just made her mad that, to at least her, Mark just left her in danger then also bring up all the times he just doesnt show up then it would have been fine.
I couldn't get over the line she said when she came to mark after what happened with his father "I guess we were both lied to." That line just reeks of an awful thing to say in that moment. Imagine you broke your leg and then I compare my scrapped knee to what you've been through today. Its wild.
I agree 100% and my biggest issue with Amber in season 2 is how her attitude and personality feel like damage control for how bad her worst moments were in Season 1.
If I’ve dated someone for a few months, no I don’t expect to know Everything about them. ESPECIALLY for a fucking superhero!! Imagine if someone’s girlfriend of 4 months got mad at them for not sharing national secrets from their job as a Special Forces soldier or some shit?
That’s a bad example and bruh been flaking and lying to her for months! Imagine dating a girl and she just randomly flakes on u…That relationship wouldn’t even last a week with me
@@Figgs101 Because he’s a friggan superhero with a SECRET identity! He’s been ‘flaking’ to save Lives!
Honestly wish season 2 had her and Mark reflect on that scene. To me I think that scene ruins her whole character because she had no right to yell at Mark for "running away to get help" if she knew who he was. If they wrote the scene differently and didn't have every character make Mark feel bad for lying her I think she wouldn't get any hate and in fact people might feel bad about their break up
I just didn't want a hero with a normal person I've always hated that trope
It works for some characters like Mary Jane, but they have to have Their Own Shit™ for it to work. Which means writing more mundane problems.
DC actually has discussed the problems with heroes marrying normal people before. In the 70s, (Earth-2) Robin and the Huntress discussed why Batman married Catwoman because only someone else who lived this life could understand him.
@@jonbrewer297not really spiderman gets fuckign tortured when he gets with mary jane
@@VerbalAssault360 True, but torture is his milieu. He was already dealing with this very issue with Gwen Stacy.
@@jonbrewer297 i mean i guess he has to be in trouble for their to be more, like meat to the stories i get it but it sucks to see one of your favorite superheroes get his ass handed to him in almost every way
he only gets tortured because the editorial can't stand that people don't either prefer Peter wkth Gwen like when they were kids or single and hooking up with the bimbo of the week. They're clearly the best for each other because the series earned it. The problem is the editors who refuse to do what's best for the characters and the story.
I honestly still don't like season 2 amber, she still has a little bit of season 1 amber in her, and it sometimes cracks, and it just gives me ptsd.
Same, it's not the strong feeling I had in season one, but anytime she says the word lie I just kinda flinch.
Mark….a 17 year old….should be able to balance his responsibilities of high school, a girlfriend, a part time job, and being a fucking Brand New SUPERHERO!? What? XD
I don't like their relationship I mean like mark could've got better than her
FFS his best friend was more understanding than she was(until he sided with her.)
Amber wasn’t even bad it’s just that mark and her live in different worlds
It’s my personal headcannon that amber was just lying when she said she knew he was invincible, then realized how horrible she was being when she actually saw the kind of things mark was dealing with on a daily basis.
Sure she saw the robots, and the injury from the “bus”, but my headcannon has her being stupid as opposed to being an actually horrible person.
problem is if she's just stupid, it makes Eve and Will also absolute idiots for fully siding with her. Plus it makes her whole "Holier than thou" and "I'm super smart and should be respected for it" traits even more pathetic
Yes, yes she was.
They definitely fixed her by now tho
@@OrtegaSauce I don't know that scene was fixable. I still feel the relationship is way too forced
@gastonlanglet4708 it is forced. And by the end of season 2, it should be over. I will say she was written better in season 2 nonetheless
@@glawrk2861 it is defo forced but they handled the breakup in a nice way
but people just never cared about the relationship, so that is why people say s2 was paced slowly
@@OrtegaSauce They didn't really fix her they just changed her she's an entirely new person now out of nowhere
Tbf I think her main problem is that she was extremely boring in comparison to all other plot lines
I'm so happy how season 2 turned out. Season 1 ruined her so bad was crazy. I've been in and still am in a relationship that started in high school as well. If I learned my girlfriend was a super hero who risked herr life when she was needed how could I explode at them
I liked Amber. She was a kind hearted person. At first she was too harsh with Mark, then she became more understanding of his duties but overall her problem was Mark was a superhero and their relationship was never going to last because of all the problems that would cause for them. I hope they remain friends. They at least seemed to end it being on good terms. They both matured as characters.
I have nothing wrong with Amber being raced swapped the opposite from the comics but I have a problem with the bad writing that went towards her character in the show like the producers of the invincible TV show went out of their to make her unlikeable in the sense she goes out with a boyfriend knowing he is invincible and is so self centered and doesn't acknowledge Mark has a world of his own and why? They could have had done so much more with her character and gave her valid reasons to break up with Mark and give Mark valid reasons why Eve was better a choice for him and this why he wants to end things with Amber in a respectful way so this would be even better as the break up would be a conscious decision where both parties mutually agree why this would be the right call to make.
I like Invincible as a show and see it as a decent adaptation of the comic but man them screwing up with with the character of Amber puts a small dent in the enjoyment I have for the show but then again if the writters improve the story maybe this could be worked around.
People saying season 2 amber was much better, but honestly i didnt like her much in season 2 either. Their relationship was so forced it wasted so much time in the show. No chemisttry whatsoever, and there was no point to it by the end of the season
If they had just adapted her properly instead of turning her into a "Fourth wave feminist" People wouldnt of had a problem with her
I'm not even sure if s1 said that about amber and even if it did it was never a priority. Let's stay on topic here
@@jhmxk
When he points out way to better her part of the story which would make it closer to the comic, it is hardly out of topic.
She was supposed to be the every girl and give a sense of realism to the whole story instead she became the worst part of season 1 and a source of dark joy for season 2.
@Raximus3000 what does any of that has to with feminism? We all agree s1 amber was bad, but it had nothing to do with feminist talking points.
@@jhmxk
Because she is one and she is written accordingly.
@@Raximus3000 what did she do that was outright feminist and how did it ruin her character?
I think Amber behaved accurately to what a 17 year old girl would do in such a stressful situation. She was wrong, and is a severely flawed and narcissistic character. But thats okay, and to be expected. My problem with the show is that it portrays Amber as faultless and Mark as a fuckup. If Eve and William were more empathetic, or even sided with Mark, I think Amber would be less of a hated character and more of a flawed character, her abrupt and seemingly random change in season 2 would be seen as character growth rather than backpedaling writers
The main grievance against Amber was her knowing about Mark being Invincible for weeks prior to him telling her so. I agree, but having Amber come back after the Omniman incident with, "Looks like I wasn't the only person being lied to..." Just added another layer to the Amber hate cake. Comparing Mark keeping his identity a secret from her (with her safety in mind, lest we forget), with what happened between him and his father (not to mention what it meant for his mother, and lots and lots of innocent people) was just...stupendously terrible. I can understand one writing mistake, but that line on top of it all? And not even a hint of an actual apology? It starts to sound less like a mistake and more like a double-down. The writers should have just leaned into it for season 2, and written her as the weird, narcissist sociopath that she was giving clear signs of being.
yeah that specific bit is actually what sealed me in on her being an absolutely awful person rather than just like, a college kid who kinda sucks. the rest of it wasn't great but people aren't perfect. THAT was just... like... imagine being such a petty, narcissistic scumbag that after your boyfriend's dad murders thousands of people, beats him into a coma, and his entire world is upended forever (along with millions of other people's, too), you just cannot stop yourself from making space for a dig about how you think he should've told you he was a superhero sooner. like, not only does she think their relationship troubles are equal in weight to a near-apocalypse and him getting beaten nearly to death by his own father, but she can't bring herself to get through ONE CONVERSATION with him without bringing it up.
the rest of it just made me not like her much. THAT moment established her as actually insane.
@@MalkuthSephira You conveyed that much better than I did. 👍Props. Yeah, that line gets overlooked a LOT in the Amber discussion.
She's an antagonistic control freak who wants to be morally and socially superior to everyone around her. She's the absolute worst type of person to be friends with, let alone DATE.
Amber was a much better character in the comic books and both her relation and breakup with Mark were done much better, they tried to fix her in Season 2 but that won't erase how awful and insufferable she was in season 1 .. race bending her to fill some DEI checklist didn't help either but it is the least of the character's problems.
Amber was horrible season 1 they completely changed her character season 2 she good now doesn't feel like the same person though
What do you mean amber got tired of mark ditching her every important event
@@redfire6277 And refused to understand why.
@@spottedslash4256 she didn't know why
@@redfire6277she literally did though
“Oh yeah I’ve known exactly what you were doing (saving lives) every time you made an excuse and I’m still bitching cuz I’m woman who need to be more important than anything else in your life. Imma just keep bitching until you do the thing that apparently (“it’s cute you think that’s enough”) isn’t gonna be enough anyway. And you can’t even get mad or upset or challenge anything I say cuz if you do imma bitch about you being a jerk. Wah.”
Yeah tbh out of all the improvements the show has made from the comics, I will say Ambers character in her entirety was butchered. I get in the comics she wasn’t that interesting either and I’m pretty sure everybody including myself was just waiting for them to break up so mark and Eve could get together. But she was still decently written, she was the only normal part of Marks life, besides William, and she was definitely his support system early on in the comics. Show Amber was a toxic bitch throughout the entire first season especially towards the end, and tbh considering the fact that there wasn’t much more to do w her character they really shouldn’t have put them back together, but they did. And then Amber was just kinda there throughout the second season, because they didn’t have to do so much of the explaining and shit Mark had to do in the comics, because well she already knew. There was just nowhere left to go w her character and she was really just wasting time in the show lmao. Still better than season 1 just now she was just kinda there instead of actively making things bad. It also just didn’t make sense w her character, like she was just a rude ass bitch season 1 and then 2 comes along and all the sudden she’s all understanding and just kinda there
Great video.
I've seen so many black people especially black women say that we don't like Amber in season 1 because she's a black woman which made me cringe so bad as a black man,myself.
The scene in Mark’s room completely contradicts your first point about why she became interested in him
Amber just wants a normal life
That's why she is with the strongest person in the whole universe? She is just dumb it explains why she's black.
So does mark
Then she should've just come clear and end the relationship the moment she found out.
A normal life can't exist in a world with Super Heroes
She said she knew he was a hero and then she dumped him but came back
Yes, she was.
I saw Amber as just there, you know? Not hot or cold, but lukewarm. But my overall ennui toward her is its own issue, since boring is the worst possible place to be in shipping.
Of course, part of it is knowing the comics, knowing Mark and Eve are already endgame.
I never read the comics, but Eve was clearly end game from day 1. They were as subtle as a nuclear explosion. -_-
@@Ninja07Keaton i started the show without reading the comics too
and you are absolutely right
i'm ngl this might come off wrong but i was mad mark didn't pick eve from the jump
She was fine and completely understandable until she says she knew about him being a superhero. Then she gaslights mark to think him saving lives is bad because she should be his priority and not “lie”
You did a great summary.
12:37 yes!! Mark wasn’t a great boyfriend but that’s not even why she was mad. She was mad because she wasn’t his queen.
And it had been like… a 5 month relationship.
Literally if the show didn’t want to show how smart amber was by figuring out he was a super hero she would have been fine. But her knowing for weeks recontextulizes things to be really really nasty.
Season 2 Amber is a completely different character compared to season 1 Amber
9:10 I would like to state that most if not all people would run away in this situation. It is very demanding of a non super hero to go out and save people while Putting their own life at risk. So why does amber get to state that he did the wrong thing although nearly anyone would do it given the situation.
Because all she cared about was her image over what he would do. For Amber, she felt that Mark disappearing made *HER* look bad.
YES SHE WAS REALLY THAT BAD
Had Amber never said anything about knowing Mark was a superhero, no one would've been jumping down her throat on the matter. Given as smart as she tries to make herself to be, should know that a secret identity is one of the most important things for a superhero to have for many reasons. Yeah, the relationship was doomed to fail, especially them being in high school. But Amber took it too far given the extra context.
i really like this video; you do a good job of nailing what I didn't like about her in season 1, and mainly that the writers just act like she was perfect. for me, the nail in the coffin for Amber was when she equated Mark's attitude with his secret identity to what Nolan did in the finale. And to me, that was psychopathic.
I wonder what the idea was having Amber know Mark was Invincible? That was the dumbest decision to make. Amber better in season 2 but it also felt like she was different character and wish they ended it in episode 4 in season 2. Want on too long.
Also. Yes. Having Mark and Eve call out Mark drove me crazy.
Screw Amber. MARKEVE MARKEVE MARKEVE MARKEVE MARKEVE MARKEVE MARKEVE
Evincible is better
Honestly season 1 and season 2 Amber are just entirely different characters. Season 1 Amber was a flawless girl boss who literally had no personality flaws. She was absolutely just perfect. And to top it off she gave Mark crap and refused to understand him.
Season 2 Amber actually had flaws and we saw her vulnerabilities. We saw that she actually did struggle with some classes. And she was sad when her grandfather passed. We even see her cry and break out into tears when she was threatened by Anissa.
I see season 2 as a pivot by the writing staff. They intended her to be a perfect girl boss. And when she wasn’t received they decided to give her a lot more character flaws.
But I’d say Amber just seem like she’s more “in the way” in both seasons. The relationship just never felt compelling
fr i saw people say "this is character development"
bruh no they are entirely different people 💀
Every time they were about to break up I was happy.
But it got to the point where I was like: "will it finally end now?"
Although I imagine they did this to make him get with Eve, but I'd prefer if she never existed.
Amber acts like Mark is hiding his hero identity just to fuck with her, but theres a reason its a secret identity.
Villains in the series wont hesitate to use or kill you if they know you are related in some way to the hero they hate.
My biggest problem with Amber is just that she is a completely irrelevant character that has way too much screen time
I mean I agree mark was being a terrible partner but that was under the assumption she didn’t know he was a superhero. He was constantly flaking on plans, neglecting, her, etc; all terrible qualities in a romantic partner.
Seriously screw the homeless shelter; I’d say stopping the earth from being destroyed is far more important then volunteering in a cafeteria.
The comic version of amber was way hotter and more likeable.
What I don't get is how the writers didn't see how dumb this was.
14:59 The answer is actually quite simple. Don't enter a relationship with someone not in the know. Honestly, Mark's biggest failing in this relationship wasn't his time management, but his refusal to let the relationship die. He clearly wasn't yet ready to handle both being a hero and being a boyfriend at the same time.
Or at least being a boyfriend with HER. The problem was in it all was that as you said, Mark wouldn't let the relationship go despite how (I hate using this word too many times) toxic Amber was but I understand why he was hanging on. He felt it was probably the only relationship he was going to get because as kids, we have that feeling that our first crush is going to be *THE* one and Mark more than likely felt that. Hell, *I'VE* felt that and....'look' like Amber.
But the problem is Amber continued to drag him on and she fucking knew it. That's what I hate so much because she is such a terrible, emotionally manipulative bitch. From the way she blackmails Todd that should have been clue ONE to how she uses people not because she's clever but because she wants to feel superior. She only wanted to date Mark so Eve couldn't have him as Eve is seen as the most popular girl in school and her (Amber) snipping him from Eve would have been seen as a power move. She essentially was using mark to elevate her social standings and the thing that sucks is Mark fell for it and kept trying to save the relationship for his own worries and thinking it would make her happy.
Naw Mark, dump the bitch. She's only going to get worse as time goes on because Amber doesn't understand the concept of love OR friendship. All she understands is she can get people to whatever she wants if she guilts them enough.
"Mark should be getting his life together"
Oh yeah, mark should totally make sure to schedule the Earth threatening events he constantly has to stop so they work around everything else. It's not like time is of the essence for any of it anyways.
Yeah in case you can't tell, that argument is idiotic. Cecil isn't telling Mark anything in advance, it's all get up and go in that exact moment and half of it takes weeks to get done.
Really hard to schedule an unshifting work schedule around invasions from another dimension that are entirely unpredictable. And he's so lazy, always faffing about in a hospital because he gets beaten to near death taking down a criminal organization that's driving people out of their homes instead of serving soup to the people that were driven out of their homes. What an asshole he is.
She knew Mark was a hero for months and gave him shit to the point where she was about to cheat on him, and season 2, I still didn't like her at this point, the damage was already been done and when they broke up, I was happy, and the funny thing it when Anissa threat to kill her, I was rule for Anissa to do it
I completely agree with everything but with season 2 done i think she changed completely and its kinda weird because now she just doesn’t give af about anything he does
Only one person has brought up the fact that she was willing to blackmail with their personal information. Mark doesn't know that. But we do. It makes it weird to think about, is he supposed to risk his safety and his family's for someone he barely known for less than a year?
That made her out to be a manipulative bitch more than someone who is clever, especially when it shows that she could have blackmailed Todd LONG AGO to get him to fuck off but she only does it when she wants to date Mark *AFTER* she sees that he and Eve got along so well, even if Eve is dating someone and therefor not in competition with her. She only saw dating Mark as an opportunity to increase her social status with the hope of molding him to agree with her thoughts.
Mark is being flakey because it's his first relationship but Amber is so much fucking worse because this was never about romance to her. She just liked the *IDEA* of dating a guy who was now seen as the bravest kid in school.
She’s a vast improvement in season two. She changed from an entitled soup kitchen woman to a more reasonable ex-girlfriend.
my only problem with her in season 2 is that she is way too reasonable
to be completely honest, amber's biggest problem is: even if you have not read the comics, it's not hard to figure that mark and eve are endgame. this makes people feel like amber and mark's relationship is pointless because of course they are destined to break up someday.
You now the irony?
The argument is that 'Black women can relate to Amber!"
......
I was more like Mark.
......And I'm a Black woman.
I wasn't in after school social clubs, I wasn't in extra curriculum groups....I was the one weird Black chick that went home, did her homework and watched anime and saved up to buy manga and didn't know *WHAT* I wanted to be because I didn't feel like I actually fit in with the peer groups I was *SUPPOSED* to be with (let's just say, the young upcoming 'girl bosses' that we often see now) and as such I was on like the lower rungs of the caste system in highschool and even as an adult, there is still a sort of view of how you should present yourself if you want to be an 'intelligent empowered independent Black woman'....which is why I didn't like Amber, because she's nothing like how the comic portrayed her which was actually a funny joke.
In the comic, Amber was scared Mark was doing illicit shit which is why she was concerned and the revelation to what was happening was actually relief to her even if they didn't remain a couple. So my question is why didn't they keep that sort of persona even if they race flipped her? It was like the moment they made her Black, she wasn't allowed to have that goofy, funny moment. Instead they made her the most condescending bullying person I've see and like I said, I AM BLACK and it bothers me that they honestly thought that doing that made Amber feel more 'real', on top of giving her all the stereotypes of what they believe Black girls read and want to study. Maybe it was apart of the joke but when the 'required reading list' came up for Mark I just....it's so damn tiring. Again, maybe that's apart of the joke but I've had too many encounters with that overly aggressive, gaslighting hardass mentality that again, I sided with Mark because *I KNOW HOW IT FEELS TO BE AIMLESS AND NOT FEEL LIKE YOU MEASURE UP*. Sometimes I still feel that way even though I have a job and get stuff done but I still don't meet the correct 'image' that people see that Black women, even fictional ones, have to walk.
It doesn't help that they reveal Amber *KNEW* so her behavior and aggression towards Mark comes off as her just getting angry that she either can't benefit from his position as a hero the way she sees fit or that she refuses to understand his position of what he went through emotionally and physically given he came into his powers so late. Even more, they're still teenagers/college yet Amber behaves like some middle age woman hen pecking her husband for not living up to standards she keeps constantly changing to fit in with her peers vs actually forming a healthy relationship with Mark so in the end, no. I don't feel bad at all that it turned out bad because in this version, Amber comes off as a complete bitch to be around and on Mark's part it almost feels like there was some desperation to *BE* with someone without realizing what that actually means. It was his first relationship and he's still a kid so there is always room to grow but the problem is Amber was changed so needlessly into an archetype that yes, helped Mark be more sympathetic but he's already a sympathetic and relatable character just from his hero's journey alone. Amber's character change had the unintentional effect of adding to the sympathy because she reminded me too much of a lot of bad experiences I had from other girls but the problem is I don't know if the writers thought that was a joke or if they honestly believed what they did was write a 'realistic Black female character for Black viewers to relate to' because I couldn't relate to the scowling bitch at all.
I mean, if it WAS a joke then they did land some of the stereotypes but I don't understand why she couldn't be Black *AND* a genuinely nice person as she was in the comics, especially with how the breakup was handled. It just rubs me the wrong way because it comes off that she couldn't be BLACK and a little bit perky. Instead they just with the nagging, needlessly condescending gaslighting guilt tripping route because they believe that makes her 'strong'. No, it just makes her a cunt. That shit ain't cute.
Edit: And again to show that I like Mark a lot more, the whole situation between him and Todd was wonderful to me simply because, in an era where 'subverting expectations' means jack shit now I think that scene did it right. Mark has his powers but instead of 'teaching Todd a lesson' by potentially breaking every bone in his body, he pulls a move that shows just how Todd has nothing better to do. He actually let Todd has what he wants in 'beating him up' but when Todd finds out that he can't hurt Mark no matter how much he punches him, HE GIVES UP. That was actually a very clever thing for Mark to do because he found a way to defeat the bully without putting a hand on him or even humiliating him in a massive way. He just showed Todd how pointless he was acting and as a result Todd saw how pointless it was and left. Of course it being highschool the word is going to get out but Mark defeated Todd in a way where he didn't have to be aggressive or violent but instead used his brain and thinking skills.
But that's sort of where I veer off when it comes to how Amber gives Mark her number. He had to MANIPULATE Todd in order to do so which actually says a lot about her. Todd is NOT supposed to be a sympathetic character at all but all of a sudden, Amber now has the ability to MANIPULATE him into giving her number to Mark which shows she could have easily gotten Todd off her back LONG AGO just by playing with him but only NOW does she actually use that tactic to get a boyfriend, NOT when she was actually being harassed prior to even paying attention to Mark. It would be funnier if Amber herself wasn't so abrasive and presented as a shallow ladder climber. Eve is the most popular girl in school but from the looks of things, there is a clear indication as to why; because Eve is more approachable and sociable. This is why I don't like people like Amber because she views her entire life as a petty competition and only cares to have things as a status symbol. She's incredibly shallow and not in a way that is funny to the plot.
There are selfish characters that work because they're entertaining. Hell, TODD works as this because he's a one note bully but him getting manipulated into doing such a random thing for Amber *IS* funny for HIM but it doesn't look the same Amber because this shows you how much power she actually has to get bullies off her back because she knows how to use her words against them. Her problem is she doesn't stop with this demeanor on MARK who is in a position where it is understandably weird for him to tell the truth to her but she keeps digging and digging further and further only to reveal she knew. She KNEW his secret the whole time but didn't stop when it was clear that Mark was uncomfortable and felt cornered. Using the card is cheap but if the roles were reversed, more people have called Amber emotionally abusive and cheered for Mark (or female Mark giving this scenario) to leave.
So I get that yes, Mark didn't know how to handle his relationship because this is his FIRST relationship and it's going to be weird and awkward, especially for someone of Mark's.....ahem, *SITUATION*.
But the way Amber is written in this casts her as a completely toxic person. I've known girls like this before and her behavior, her actions? Everything she does and how she treats people is to validate herself and to feel socially and morally superior. Even if Eve had another boyfriend, her reaction to seeing the two getting along just by talking was one out of jealousy and spite. She wanted to SPITE Eve to take her down by snipping Mark from her before she had a chance to if Eve and here other BF broke up because Amber could already tell that Eve and Mark had chemistry but she wasn't going to allow 'Miss Popular' to win another one over her. Amber is an antagonistic control freak who took advantage of Mark's situation. She KNEW but continued to put him in socially awkward positions to 'test' him despite knowing how dangerous it would be if Mark blew his cover. So yeah, fuck Amber.
They really wanted a black woman as a lead character but were afraid to do anything with her. In season 1 she was an asshole and in season 2 she's way too understanding, it's like they can't write a woman just like they write any male character
Especially when Amber already had a funny character style in the comics so writing her like this was completely unnecessary.
I really emphasized with Amber up until she said she always knew. I don’t understand why they would even do that. It was such a weird thing to do, and I don’t know if it was in the comics or they added it for the show and what they were thinking but you really beautifully broke down why it was so frustrating. Nobody showed mark how he could’ve done better and that’s so disappointing.
They changed it from the comics. In the comics she was angry with him for vanishing during the robot attack. They fight, and instead of going to the frat party she invites a friend over to talk about it. Her friend helps her realize that he was a superhero (Amber also saw Mark jump down the window from her dorm and vanish shortly before that). She pieces together all the coincidences and evidence and realizes that he's Invincible. When the two of them meet later that night she asks him if he's Invincible and he says yes and shows her his cosutme and powers. So she's happy he's not doing something terrible or illegal and the problem is solved.
I kinda get that it could be interesting to build up more tension into it, but they mishandled it horribly.
@@rb98769 It was funnier in the comic because Amber's has valid concerns over what Mark is doing, especially when you think about it and that she got angry at the possibility that he was hurting himself. She was angry but she was *CONCERNED* about him, not concerned if he made her look bad.
I hated amber when she knew mark was invincible the whole time snd still acts like a bicth, later episodes in season 2 she got a character development i think
It’s not even a development they just made her act like her comic counterpart in the comic she doesn’t even know so her anger is justified and understandable and when she finds out mark is a superhero she feels like a bitch but in the show she just knows and is a bitch for no reason
I swear, it felt like a completely different writer was tasked with Amber’s character. Because the rest of the female characters in Invincible were changed and expanded on in very interesting ways that improved them greatly.
Hell, when Atom Eve does something impulsive or makes a bad decision in season 2 she’s shown consequences and is portrayed as in the wrong for being so careless. So, why was Amber written in such a strange way?
in the comics eve actively tries to sabotage amber and mark's relationship
it was like she was cheering for it to be over
here she accepted the fact
eve is much better in every way too
@@namishjain9238 Exactly. Plus, it makes sense why she seems so much more stoic in the show because of her traumatic past compared to the comics.
@@namishjain9238 It honestly just felt like they tried way too hard to make Amber “strong”, “smart” and into the “social justice system” that they forgot to make her a good character.
I’m not saying the comic version was perfect, but at least the whole “I have no agency” line when they were breaking up would’ve worked so much better with a version closer to the comics.
The damage was done. I really don't care that she's better on season 2, i just wanted them to be done so we can move to the best couple
Season 1 Amber was awful.
Season 2 Amber was, aside from one or two minor instances, perfectly decent.
I hate Season 1 Amber for the reasons you stated. I feel bad for season 2 Amber.
Really?!
Why?
@@Raximus3000 Because Amber has to share Mark with the rest of the world and no one wants to share the person they love. Every special moment they could have could potentially be interrupted by his duty to save the world and she just has to be cool with that. That is a tough ask.
@@Seven7swords
You'd excuse me if i do not feel bad because "a privilaged person did not get her pony."
It is petty and if you compared it to the comic it is a downgrade.
Add it to the first season and i feel no pity for her.
@@Raximus3000 Yes, season 1 Amber was illogical and just an a hole. Season 2 Amber is much more reasonable. My personal experience has put me in Mark's shoes where my duty has caused me to miss birthdays, my marriage anniversary and holidays and I talked to my wife about how these events effected her and the kids. So I get how Amber wants to be supportive of Mark being a hero but she still wants him to be with only her. Just like my wife wants to be supportive of my military career but she rather me be at home.
@@Seven7swords
That only works if you completely disregard season 1... Which is absurd. She is the same character, in theory.
Her role is to be the girlfriend who could not handle in a relationship with Invincible.
It is an understandable situation since like you said takes sacrifices that most could not make. It fails on that because firstly she was not shown to be an ordinary person and secondly because even when that is the end goal the writers desperately tried to make it seem like her not being able to be that kind of person does not make her less. Her pretentiousness in the end really did not help me like her. She is a self abosorved person since all she cared was herself never did she feel worried about Mark.
>knew mark was a superhero for 3 weeks
>complains about where mark was when she literally saw a superhero helping
Love how you chalk up bad character writing to “they’re 17” lol
Amber in season 1 was trash but I lowkey started to like her a ton more in season 2. Eve still better tho
I agree with a fair bit of your points, but, your definition of an ultimatum is a little off. What you described is a boundary which is healthy, an ultimatum is when you allow a behavior for a while then snap change and use the threat of leaving to force your partner to do something or change something.
I honestly don’t mind their toxic relationship, it’s relatable, but it’s frustrating that the writers pretended like it was a good relationship
At 16:41, when he says that he doesn't want support from people who have turned their backs on me because "they might do it again," it is a very valid point. The thing about bad people is when they've done something bad once, they WILL do it again. People who are there for you at your lowest point are your real friends. It's at dire and critical moments when you see people who they really art. Amber is not a good person and Mark shouldn't want to have anything to do with her. However, I'm not Mark so I can't decide for him.
Amber isn't even a side character, she's a placeholder character she was supposed to be written out ages ago.
True, but Comic amber, they left on MUCH better terms.
One thing that I think does set people off is the fact that she was race swapped, AND had her attitude & personality shifted to be way more bitchy.
While race swaps *_do_* put fans on edge (rightfully so given the poor track record) despite the pop culture "gamer men just don't like minorities!" strawman very few people actually give a shit in-isolation and only respond negatively because it's a growing trend (see anything Marvel) for swaps to be done for idealogical rather than story reasons. Case and point for this is Isaac from the first Castlevania series. He is a major race and character swap, but he's extremely well written and still echos many ideas & themes of his original form, while at the same time heavily countering other aspects. Additionally the writers passed up several political points they could have made and instead chose to write his past fitting the lore and reality he was in. Yes he was a slave, but not in the contemporary western sense; his history was clearly just part of his character and not being used as a soapbox for the writers. (For contrast reference whatever that french girl's name is from Castlevania Nocturne)
In short, basically no-one dislikes race swaps *_because_* its a race swap, they don't like them because, generally speaking, they're done for idealogical/political reasons that either directly fuck over the story or don't technically directly contradict it, but are still clearly being used by the writers to make an out-of-universe point, and when the audience feels the hand of the writer it does still compromise the experience. ( *_especially_* when that hand is punching them in the face )
So, when Amber was race swapped, explicitly called 4th wave feminist IIRC, is looking for a gender studies degree, has 'political activist' as a major character trait, *_AND_* the writers decided to make her a strong independent whamen who don't need no Invincible and can save lives all on her own thank you *_very_* much, it paints a fairly clear picture. Again, as Isaac proved the fans don't care if you change a character and it's good, but yes, if you change aspects of the story or characters and make them much worse people are going to ask "why the fuck did you change this?".
A lot of people want to just write off race swaps entirely because they see those complaints a racist and don't want to be a racist, but just because you're colorblind you don't go to a minstrel show. *_Other people_* may still factor race into their worldview and, particularly for Amber, that does seem to be part of what happened. If some random new-baddie-from-an-old-group-in-germany (blame youtube) made a movie adaptation of Crysis and cast Lawrence Barnes as a white guy I'd be equally hesitant. Just the same if the actor managed to play the character extremely well, they were well written, the story seems to stand on it's own, etc. it'd all be fine. However, if I then noticed certain odd consistencies with how he was being rewritten, now I'm learning that the writers intentionally changed his character for their own idealogical reasons, and yeah, I'm gonna be a bit miffed. I like his character and the story he's in and if I learn you let your own biases and shitty political takes get in the way of a good adaptation of him and that story it'd be entirely fair to complain. You had something great to work with and could have just ctrl-c ctrl-v-ed it, but you *_chose_* to rewrite it and make it worse. Fuck 'faithful' give me good, is the adaptation good? If you can't edit the adaptation to be better, don't edit it, be faithful. (Assuming the original was good that is) There are a few edge cases where a faithful adaptation miiiight not work due to differences in medium, but even then it'll likely have *_some_* merit still. But, generally speaking, you ain't going to Starship-Troppers-it and make a good movie while actively misunderstanding and trying to write over the original. (The director did not even remotely understand the book and tried to make it a parody of fashizm, buuuut the book was like *_ultra_* libertarian with a straight up fantasy level of government transparency and accountability because it was written quickly as more of a "
Honestly, I think it would have been better if they leaned more into it, like Amber was a sociopath who gets off on the idea of having a (arguably the strongest) hero wrapped around her finger, then just killing her off. In season 2, Amber was just taking away from everything else. I wanted more, but then Amber had to show up and pump the brakes. If she were trying to manipulate Mark in some way to better her career prospects or personal agenda in some way, I would have cared. But instead, season 2 Amber is that annoying roommate that just won't stop bugging you.
this video lowkey made me hate invincible as a show 😂 definitely a good ass video doe need pt 2
"Blame Rex" Okay you're saying at least one thing I agree with.
Honestly, her reaction in the comics is how I would react if I figured out my boyfriend was a superhero.
That's the thing I don't get; I hate this trend of having the partners of superheroes act like their partner being this super being is suddenly *THEIR* problem and now we have to guilt the hero for doing their job on top of trying to keep the people around them safe. Amber in the comics was mad because she thought Mark was doing something like smoking crack or other harmful things but finding out he was a hero was much better. If I found out my boyfriend was a super hero I'd be so mesmerized that the concept was even possible to begin with. ANGER would be the very last thing on the list.
Before watching: they over did it in S1 then tried to course correct for S2 but in doing so they over corrected... Now, I just want her gone (mostly due to the fact they canonically break up around this time).
I think it's genuinely very hard to tell how much of this issue was bad characterization of Amber and how much was the writers failing to write teenagers well. Because everything pretty much all of them did makes sense when you consider that teenagers are not exactly the best at things like impulse control or critical thinking - but on the other hand the writers make it very easy to forget that, in Season 1, some of these characters are literal children, and they don't really do much to build on that idea or have it come to the forefront of peoples minds. The show explored a lot of themes and it's no surprise that not all of them could pan out in the first season, so hopefully it will be done more justice as the show's run continues.
1:27
Okay, I personally wouldn’t have a problem (well, *much* of a problem, anyway) with how Amber acted… if she *DIDN’T* know Mark was Invincible!
"Let me reiterate, 17 year olds are stupid." Truer words have never been spoken. I know. I was 17 once! It was a lifetime ago, but I remember it.
Being 17 is literally not an excuse to her actions, Mark was in a life or death situation more often than she could have had dates with Mark. The fact they're both new to the relationship and Mark just becoming a super hero is the problem. He wasn't popular in school and he didn't excel in anything much but was and did. She's supposed to be the smarter of the 2 yet she was the most childish by wanting Mark to reveal too much about himself. The fact she knew his secret prove 2 things, the fact she doesn't care about his problems when her own is more important to her. And that she doesn't realize the world she lives in to assume him being a super hero isn't enough of an excuse to accept "why" for anything. The point of secret identities is to protect people like her, she may not hate him but she as hell doesn't respect him or his fight.
He had all the reasons to turn against humanity, to be the only of the 2 to be more human.
I also dislike how he just randomly says "By now Mark should have adjusted" as if anyone in real life even comprehends what being a super hero facing beings who could theoretically kill you with a thought until you actually see them do something, and constantly putting your life on the line while dozens (till Omni changed it to thousands) die in front of your eyes as you try to save them. Like bro, mark already wasn't the best at school, already wasn't exactly working the greatest job out there (Also moving around in such an enclosed space near dangerous items (hot grease etc) makes it significantly more likely you're gonna get exposed as a superhero). How can you possibly expect him now that he's devoting ALL his free time into SAVING THE WORLD to be adjusting as well as a normal teenager??????????