I'm a music technician in a school and I'm in no way qualified to repair saxophones (other instruments, though!) and I've just taken up learning the saxophone. Thank you so much for these videos. Although I don't see myself doing any major repairs to any of the instruments in the near-future, I feel like I'm developing a better understanding of the mechanisms, potential faults and differences in saxophone models and to me that is absolutely invaluable. Thank you.
Great job.I usually use the preformed rubber risers. A lot of people don't like them because they tend to move around and fall off. I simply slide a piece of heat shrink tubing ovet the key, trim it off and apply a small amount of super glue to the tubing I then slide on the rubber riser and it sticks firmly to the shrunk in place tubing. Quick, cheap and easily removable without damaging the keywork.
So meticulous and time consuming but they look great brother, I tip my hat to you and to all the technicians out there - stuff like this isn't easy. Great work!
Hi Matt, I've really enjoyed your videos. I've used cork for my key risers, and it's worked well for me. Recently I've used Sugru Moldable Glue that seems to work well, and I like the feel. Thank for your great work.
Looks great. I did very similar risers on my alto about 15 years ago with wine cork (what I had:) and coated over the cork and key with clear tool-dip. Looked good for a while. The tool dip eventually absorbed dirt and looks not like new anymore - epoxy would look and feel better. If I ever do it again I might use some nice hardwood with an oiled finish...
I guess im randomly asking but does anyone know a method to log back into an Instagram account? I was stupid forgot my login password. I love any tips you can offer me.
@Douglas Jamison I really appreciate your reply. I got to the site through google and I'm in the hacking process now. I see it takes quite some time so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
Imho it's a quite well done result for that problem. All in all I ask, whhy nearly most of saxes aren.t built for normal hand shapes. I don.t even ONE saxophone without too small key palms!!! Only Keilwerth uses a adjustable in/out screw to adjust the palm keys. Thänx MattStohrer for this tutorial, I did also like you showed and could approach the palm keys for my conditions. I can reach now d, eb, e and f without moving the hand, even the wohle forearm. It works fine now. Kind regards, Henry
I did this on my Mk VI D key 20+ years ago. My teacher at the time chuckled and said that wasn’t going to last a week. I didn’t epoxy paint mine like you did. The riser is still there after 2 overhauls.
Nice job. Air bubbles will disappear if treated with heat. Preferable an alcohol torch (look fly rod builder apparel) or a cigarette lighter. But be careful with the latter.
Could you please do a (series of )videos on common upgrades to vintage horns to make them easier to play. I'm returning to play alto Martin standard/searchlight made ~ 1936 & toying with re-padding/tuning, new adjustable thumb rest, neck or buying Yamaha or Jean student. Goal church concert some Jazz playing. Your advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you
I don't really do that stuff! My philosophy is that when properly set up, vintage horns don't need it. When I see all sorts of doodads all over a horn, I just think to myself well, there's a horn that isn't set up right. Because most every professional horn made from the 1920s onward can be a great saxophone when it is in the condition that it's makers envisioned when they designed it. They knew a lot more than us, and they certainly know more than a modern repairman. I consider myself a student of the instruments they built.
Thanks for replying - that's a fair response. the caveat is, as am I learning about 'different types' of pro model Martin Handcraft Committee' alto some are made w/ or w/o right hand adjustable thumb rests ( my version w/o) that are small for adult. It was bought for me as a child. Now as an adult & getting older, I would like adjustable and larger thumb rest for easier handling and larger neck screw for easier loosening/tightening. Yes I would definitely benefit from your skills to tune w/ correct key height. Do you give over-haul wide range estimates w/ pix of sax, realizing in-person is best /final assessment? Thanks for your time.
The easy way - but Fimo ( or similar ) modeling clay, form and test shape as it will stick well enough while experimenting, heat risers in oven to harden and glue on. Done. And tons of cool colours as well.
I have made this key riser for my tenor sax and it is great! Thank you so much for this video! Do you know of any saxophone cases to recommend that better accommodate taller palm keys? Unfortunately my walt Johnson case (even though I love it to death) does not have a very deep well for the palm keys. I worry that excess pressure on the palm key with the riser could bend or damage the key or instrument.
Great video, glad I came across it. One question though. On the edge of the key, do you bring the epoxy over the edge, or just barely to it? Seems like if you bring the epoxy even with the edge, then it wouldn't release with heat.
Nice looking risers. Any worries about getting a little bit of that epoxy on the side of the keys and being hard to remove later if desired? I saw the comment about testors paint. I have added little bits of acrylic craft paint (like plaid brand from the Walmart craft isle) to epoxy to color it for other applications before. I felt like it caused it to cure faster but otherwise worked nicely.
What a nice job, Matt. I've found that slow and meticulous typically yield the best results. It looks fabulous. Also, I don't see very well...was that a small tipped screwdriver bit used as an applicator?
Hey Matt! Got epoxy off my keys and decided to use those Protec Clear Risers. They are aesthetically pleasing. Cant tell they are there most of the time visually, like the AWFUL black ones. How can I make them stiffer and not so spongy? I tried a shell of clear epoxy JB Weld. But it was still gummy and did not adhere to the silicone or whatever they are made of. Its not a big annoyance but would like a harder touch on them. Thanks for any Ideas!!
I have been doing almost exactly this for years; unfortunately, I haven't captured pictures of any customer horns, but (at Matt's request) I just took some pix of my personal horns; www.shmuelyosef.com/images/Palm_Riser_montage.jpg The way that I fit them was to just crudely glue a cork stack on the palm risers with silicone rubber, carve them a little higher than the customer thinks is necessary and send them away with a razor blade...to just try it out and carve away at it until it is the right height. Then I measure that and fabricate the epoxy risers in place (again a little oversize) using Apoxie Sculpt (www.avesstudio.com/apoxie/primary-color-kit) which comes in cool colors and can be mixed with carbon black or metal filings for all kinds of nice effects. You can mix two colors, roll them flat, press them together to make striped material, etc...I have generally chosen personally to make them look brass-like, but have made them red, yellow, blue, black, etc for customers. To finish them you just sand them to shape (with 120 grit wet-dry) and finish them with subsequent 280 grit, 400, 600, and finally with Wenol (or equivalent) polishing grit to make them shiny and tactile. After a little practice you get good at sanding right up to the brass where the epoxy gets semi-transparent and you can flick it off with a thumbnail around the edges at the base of the riser. I used to do built-up cork, and coat it with nail polish which had nice metallic choices, but found it was a lot more trouble than this. To get the epoxy ones off, you just take off the key, put a torch on the touch for a few seconds and then the epoxy just pops off. You can glue it back on with silicone or contact cement if you like.
Hey Matt, have you ever tried honing the dull blades? a couple swipes on a leather strop could give some more life out of each blade, or make sure you get that perfect cut just when is counts. If it works for barbers it could work for us right?
Nathan Pillsbury I've tried but haven't been able to get it to be as sharp as I want. if I ever get a chance, I'd like someone who can do it well to teach me in-person.
Matt, Any tips on sizing and fitting someone for risers? If you were making them for yourself would you install and try before epoxying? This is a great video for me because I feel as though I have to unnaturally scrunch my palm to hit the palm keys and was considering trying risers. Thanks!
No super involved method here, I just tell them to play and look at it and ask them what they like :-) Me personally I like to have the key just slightly below my natural hand position. Make sure to PLAY though vs. just rest. Hand position during playing is often different than resting position, even if you think you are doing a good mockup, playing is what really will show you what you want.
You can with the method shown in the video above try out the risers without the epoxy and modify as needed. The epoxy adds a bit of thickness all around, maybe 1/16" or less.
Hello Matt, thanks for posting this video. My current current palm key risers are made completely out putty epoxy. I'd like to redo them using your method. How would you go about removing the putty epoxy? Any advice of salvaging the key finish or can I assume I already ruined the palm key finish by using putty epoxy in the first place?
depends on the particulars but a gentle heat (too hot to touch, but gentle and steady so you don't burn anything) on the key can sometimes help the putty let go without taking any lacquer with it.
Hi Matt, I am a Woodwind Educator from India and I have procured all the material mentioned by in the this video to create the Palm Key Risers. I am going through this Video meticulously and need to know this. When you initially applied the contact cement to the palm and the cork (the Thinner one) do we need to wait for sometime before we can start sticking them together(This is my first time use of Contact cement)? Thanks
On a different note...ha....um How do you remove Epoxy risers that are on the metal nothing in between. Other than grinding down with a file or other tool. Ive heard heat can be applied and they may pop off? Thanks Matt!
About how long does this process take, if I was going to make risers for all three palm keys? I want to make sure I have enough time so that I don't need my alto before I'm done.
that is an extremely common sax with lots of variations and even more entrenched opinions already out there. I probably won't make a video on the VI until I am feeling both masochistic and pugnacious
thats hands down the best looking custom riser ive ever seen, bub!
I'm a music technician in a school and I'm in no way qualified to repair saxophones (other instruments, though!) and I've just taken up learning the saxophone. Thank you so much for these videos. Although I don't see myself doing any major repairs to any of the instruments in the near-future, I feel like I'm developing a better understanding of the mechanisms, potential faults and differences in saxophone models and to me that is absolutely invaluable. Thank you.
Great job.I usually use the preformed rubber risers. A lot of people don't like them because they tend to move around and fall off. I simply slide a piece of heat shrink tubing ovet the key, trim it off and apply a small amount of super glue to the tubing
I then slide on the rubber riser and it sticks firmly to the shrunk in place tubing. Quick, cheap and easily removable without damaging the keywork.
DUBLIN537 nice tip
Hey Matt. I do the same way. If the client wants it, I mix a little Testors model paint in with the epoxy. You can make it whatever colour you want.
Dominique J. Morier noice!
Love that you're doing this on the A train. Kind of like that old Caddy (?) ad where the guy cuts a diamond in the back seat.
So meticulous and time consuming but they look great brother, I tip my hat to you and to all the technicians out there - stuff like this isn't easy. Great work!
Thanks for making your videos, I've learned a lot watching them. This will be especially helpful on my Buescher True Tone soprano.
Hi Matt, I've really enjoyed your videos. I've used cork for my key risers, and it's worked well for me. Recently I've used Sugru Moldable Glue that seems to work well, and I like the feel. Thank for your great work.
Looks great. I did very similar risers on my alto about 15 years ago with wine cork (what I had:) and coated over the cork and key with clear tool-dip. Looked good for a while. The tool dip eventually absorbed dirt and looks not like new anymore - epoxy would look and feel better. If I ever do it again I might use some nice hardwood with an oiled finish...
I guess im randomly asking but does anyone know a method to log back into an Instagram account?
I was stupid forgot my login password. I love any tips you can offer me.
@Anders Hayes instablaster :)
@Douglas Jamison I really appreciate your reply. I got to the site through google and I'm in the hacking process now.
I see it takes quite some time so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Douglas Jamison it worked and I actually got access to my account again. I am so happy:D
Thanks so much, you saved my ass!
@Anders Hayes no problem :)
Imho it's a quite well done result for that problem. All in all I ask, whhy nearly most of saxes aren.t built for normal hand shapes. I don.t even ONE saxophone without too small key palms!!! Only Keilwerth uses a adjustable in/out screw to adjust the palm keys. Thänx MattStohrer for this tutorial, I did also like you showed and could approach the palm keys for my conditions. I can reach now d, eb, e and f without moving the hand, even the wohle forearm. It works fine now. Kind regards, Henry
Matt, great collection of videos you have made Just came across your channel Really nicely done
I did this on my Mk VI D key 20+ years ago. My teacher at the time chuckled and said that wasn’t going to last a week. I didn’t epoxy paint mine like you did. The riser is still there after 2 overhauls.
I made one just like that for the D key on my Mark VI 20 years ago. It’s still in place after all these years.
Perfect and they’re not totally permanent either ! Even better!
Thanks a lot from Chile 🇨🇱 really nice video!
wow! just great! Thank you for your well explained video. I've just did it and I am super happy with the result! Thanks man!
Nice job. Air bubbles will disappear if treated with heat. Preferable an alcohol torch (look fly rod builder apparel) or a cigarette lighter. But be careful with the latter.
Could you please do a (series of )videos on common upgrades to vintage horns to make them easier to play. I'm returning to play alto Martin standard/searchlight made ~ 1936 & toying with re-padding/tuning, new adjustable thumb rest, neck or buying Yamaha or Jean student. Goal church concert some Jazz playing. Your advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you
I don't really do that stuff! My philosophy is that when properly set up, vintage horns don't need it. When I see all sorts of doodads all over a horn, I just think to myself well, there's a horn that isn't set up right. Because most every professional horn made from the 1920s onward can be a great saxophone when it is in the condition that it's makers envisioned when they designed it. They knew a lot more than us, and they certainly know more than a modern repairman. I consider myself a student of the instruments they built.
Thanks for replying - that's a fair response. the caveat is, as am I learning about 'different types' of pro model Martin Handcraft Committee' alto some are made w/ or w/o right hand adjustable thumb rests ( my version w/o) that are small for adult. It was bought for me as a child. Now as an adult & getting older, I would like adjustable and larger thumb rest for easier handling and larger neck screw for easier loosening/tightening. Yes I would definitely benefit from your skills to tune w/ correct key height. Do you give over-haul wide range estimates w/ pix of sax, realizing in-person is best /final assessment? Thanks for your time.
The easy way - but Fimo ( or similar ) modeling clay, form and test shape as it will stick well enough while experimenting, heat risers in oven to harden and glue on. Done. And tons of cool colours as well.
In Guyana l make them the same way but instead of sanding at the finish l cover it with furniture upholstery material. It looks and work just fine.
I have made this key riser for my tenor sax and it is great! Thank you so much for this video! Do you know of any saxophone cases to recommend that better accommodate taller palm keys? Unfortunately my walt Johnson case (even though I love it to death) does not have a very deep well for the palm keys. I worry that excess pressure on the palm key with the riser could bend or damage the key or instrument.
Beautiful work!
Great video, glad I came across it. One question though. On the edge of the key, do you bring the epoxy over the edge, or just barely to it? Seems like if you bring the epoxy even with the edge, then it wouldn't release with heat.
WOW. twist the spring to get the key to sit up straight. so simple.
I'm going to do this when I find a saxophone somewhere someday
Nice looking risers. Any worries about getting a little bit of that epoxy on the side of the keys and being hard to remove later if desired? I saw the comment about testors paint. I have added little bits of acrylic craft paint (like plaid brand from the Walmart craft isle) to epoxy to color it for other applications before. I felt like it caused it to cure faster but otherwise worked nicely.
a beautiful result
That is just sooo sooo good....top lad and yep I'm gonna have to try it...boom
Sugru is great, and it can look pretty good too; you get long working time
Yes, I used Sugru, did a great job. This cork job makes a fair colour match, but is a lot of work if doing all three keys.
Kool I've been struggling with the side palm keys....plastic raisers suck...
What are the two thicknesses of cork you used in the video?
i wondered exactly how this is done! I've got the cold too bro :)
What a nice job, Matt. I've found that slow and meticulous typically yield the best results. It looks fabulous. Also, I don't see very well...was that a small tipped screwdriver bit used as an applicator?
Hey Matt! Got epoxy off my keys and decided to use those Protec Clear Risers. They are aesthetically pleasing. Cant tell they are there most of the time visually, like the AWFUL black ones.
How can I make them stiffer and not so spongy? I tried a shell of clear epoxy JB Weld. But it was still gummy and did not adhere to the silicone or whatever they are made of. Its not a big annoyance but would like a harder touch on them. Thanks for any Ideas!!
what a crackin job.....nice one now I'm thinking.....do I need the palm keys changing?????
I have been doing almost exactly this for years; unfortunately, I haven't captured pictures of any customer horns, but (at Matt's request) I just took some pix of my personal horns;
www.shmuelyosef.com/images/Palm_Riser_montage.jpg
The way that I fit them was to just crudely glue a cork stack on the palm risers with silicone rubber, carve them a little higher than the customer thinks is necessary and send them away with a razor blade...to just try it out and carve away at it until it is the right height. Then I measure that and fabricate the epoxy risers in place (again a little oversize) using Apoxie Sculpt (www.avesstudio.com/apoxie/primary-color-kit) which comes in cool colors and can be mixed with carbon black or metal filings for all kinds of nice effects. You can mix two colors, roll them flat, press them together to make striped material, etc...I have generally chosen personally to make them look brass-like, but have made them red, yellow, blue, black, etc for customers. To finish them you just sand them to shape (with 120 grit wet-dry) and finish them with subsequent 280 grit, 400, 600, and finally with Wenol (or equivalent) polishing grit to make them shiny and tactile. After a little practice you get good at sanding right up to the brass where the epoxy gets semi-transparent and you can flick it off with a thumbnail around the edges at the base of the riser.
I used to do built-up cork, and coat it with nail polish which had nice metallic choices, but found it was a lot more trouble than this. To get the epoxy ones off, you just take off the key, put a torch on the touch for a few seconds and then the epoxy just pops off. You can glue it back on with silicone or contact cement if you like.
good stuff man, thanks!
but, that is a work of art@! Is Duco cement equivalent of contact cement?
Hey Matt, have you ever tried honing the dull blades? a couple swipes on a leather strop could give some more life out of each blade, or make sure you get that perfect cut just when is counts. If it works for barbers it could work for us right?
Nathan Pillsbury I've tried but haven't been able to get it to be as sharp as I want. if I ever get a chance, I'd like someone who can do it well to teach me in-person.
whats the tool for razor blade sharpening?
I wonder if gel nail polish would work well since it's self leveling and it doesn't set until you cure it with the light
Matt, Any tips on sizing and fitting someone for risers? If you were making them for yourself would you install and try before epoxying? This is a great video for me because I feel as though I have to unnaturally scrunch my palm to hit the palm keys and was considering trying risers. Thanks!
No super involved method here, I just tell them to play and look at it and ask them what they like :-)
Me personally I like to have the key just slightly below my natural hand position. Make sure to PLAY though vs. just rest. Hand position during playing is often different than resting position, even if you think you are doing a good mockup, playing is what really will show you what you want.
You can with the method shown in the video above try out the risers without the epoxy and modify as needed. The epoxy adds a bit of thickness all around, maybe 1/16" or less.
Great tips, thanks again!
Thank you for sharing the cork palm riser ! What kind of glue do you use to attach the corks?
www.rhadhesives.com/s-18-neoprene-cement.html
Very helpful thanks !
Anyone know of a safe type of contact cement that can purchased in the EU?
That's much nicer looking than sugru
if you carved a riser out of wood could you attach it with contact cement?
Nanda Thiyagarajan yep
Hello Matt, thanks for posting this video. My current current palm key risers are made completely out putty epoxy. I'd like to redo them using your method. How would you go about removing the putty epoxy? Any advice of salvaging the key finish or can I assume I already ruined the palm key finish by using putty epoxy in the first place?
depends on the particulars but a gentle heat (too hot to touch, but gentle and steady so you don't burn anything) on the key can sometimes help the putty let go without taking any lacquer with it.
When applying either epoxy or clear nail polish, are you only painting the cork or the rim of palm key that’s showing too? Does it matter?
Rim too, for a firm hold (that will release with gentle heat on the underside of the spatula)
Hi Matt, I am a Woodwind Educator from India and I have procured all the material mentioned by in the this video to create the Palm Key Risers. I am going through this Video meticulously and need to know this. When you initially applied the contact cement to the palm and the cork (the Thinner one) do we need to wait for sometime before we can start sticking them together(This is my first time use of Contact cement)? Thanks
Yes, about 15 minutes or until the glue does not feel wet to touch.
What is the type of glue
do you let the epoxy flow onto the sides of the key or do you keep it just on the cork?
side of the key, very thin layer.
shown around 15:15
On a different note...ha....um How do you remove Epoxy risers that are on the metal nothing in between. Other than grinding down with a file or other tool. Ive heard heat can be applied and they may pop off?
Thanks Matt!
ROGELIO ESCOBAR BLUE ROUTE JAZZ-TET gentle heat to the metal should work no problem
Matt Stohrer like a mini torch?
Or like a heat gun
About how long does this process take, if I was going to make risers for all three palm keys? I want to make sure I have enough time so that I don't need my alto before I'm done.
Rufus Republic for three keys it would take me 2-3 hours.
just came to hear te rain
What’s the thickness of the cork ?
Do you repair trumpets?
I have one.
what is the brand model and serial number?
Where is your store located?
gama munoz I do not have a store. I work out of a workshop next to my home. I am appointment only.
Matt Stohrer so the chances of you living by my are slim huh :( , I live in California like 2 hours away from LA
@@IWario1 Sorry, Gama, East Coast....near me!
good !
i dont know why its so ASMR watching this video on yuotube. thakns. interesting
this looks even cooler when its played backwards
make a repairman's overview on mark vi altos!
that is an extremely common sax with lots of variations and even more entrenched opinions already out there. I probably won't make a video on the VI until I am feeling both masochistic and pugnacious