25mm on my deep section road wheels. They match the rim width nicely and weigh less. If I want more comfort I'll just switch to my gravel wheelset, don't see much point in going with some ~30mm compromise.
@Pablo Morales Let's say there's no handling or power output drawback to narrow bars. Are you keeping your elbows in line with your hands at all times? Because if you aren't, you're negating much of the aero advantages of narrow bars. It's like riding a small frame with a slammed stem: in theory it's more aero, but in practice you can't stay in the right position for a substantial length of time before locking your elbows, throwing all those aero gains out the window.
@Pablo Morales There is something called structural drag reduction. It is basically an object breaking the wind for an object behind it. If your arm is in a straight line with your hand in the bent elbows position you get that drag reduction all the way up the forearm. If the elbows are wingin' it Froome style then they're likely outside the zone in which the hand and subsequent forearm section are breaking the wind. You could also experience an upward rotation of your shoulder blades pushing your shoulders up towards your ears and elbows even wider. While the shoulder position could be more aero like a turtling head tuck it is unlikely when it's forced rather than relaxed into. Having the bars too narrow can also fix the shoulder blades in a forward position rounding off the shoulders. This could prevent a turtle head tuck and might push the head higher than even your standard road position. To me it seems you are the one looking at the hands in isolation and only considering the leading edge. Water is a pretty bad example too, because water is a much higher resistance and slower moving fluid especially compared to the speed of the diver. Diving is also a very brief activity, so the initial drag reduction in breaking the water surface is quite important. I get that in a timetrial there is merit to what you're saying, but in a timetrial you have significantly shorter distances, armpad support and at the pro level you won't need to look up much and strain your neck. It is much less important to consider ergonomics on a TT bike than a road bike and discomfort is much less likely to affect your ability to maintain your aerodynamics.
Currently run 36mm Challenge tires on my gravel bike and still manage to grab road KOMs. The effects of rolling resistance and aerodynamics are small compared to fitness. If your bike is more comfortable, you’re more likely to ride it longer and more frequently.
I rode the coast of Oregon in the US this past June with a tubeless 28 mm set up. Fast, smooth, predictable and no flats even in the instance of being blown off the road by the gust of a passing semi. The roads were pristine to rather course throughout the distance.. I would repeat the same setup and recommend everything I did. Used hed Ardennes wheels Teravail tires orange seal sealant
As a younger rider in my youth I liked 23c on my road bike, but as the years go on and I gotten wider I’ve found my tyres have widened too!!! Now run 32c tyres nice and comfortable for my old body 😄
Thank you for making this video, i have been saying this on my channel. But you get nay sayers. I have been saying the biggest influence is road surface and the ability of the tyre to absorb the imperfections in the road, either soft flexible sidewalls or a bigger volume of air to absorb these imperfections. So what is the faster tyre? "it depends". On good surfaces 21-25mm higher pressures are the best for aero, but as the road surface deteriorates the importance of road surface imperfections becomes the dominant energy to overcome. Everytime you ride over a bump, the forward energy needs to lift the bike and rider taking energy away from the forward motion. Therefore high pressure, skinny tyres for good surfaces, wider lower pressures, for poor surfaces. There is no overall "faster tyre"
I think depends on the race. In the US our races are mostly crits with a lot of 90 degree hard turns. The 28-30c tires are definitely most common these days because you can corner at faster speeds
Running wider tires with the same air pressure, is missing one of the points. If you look at the science behind the wider tires recommendations, one of the factor is that vibration caused by higher tire pressure is energy lost and that it also causes more rider fatigue.
Not vibration caused by higher pressure. Vibration from pressures TOO high 90psi, 25mm, on bad UK roads works for a lot of surfaces for 75kg me This video says exactly what bicyclerollingresistance says. Identical rolling resistance for different tyre widths when they're setup to offer the same tyre compression
@@Mike0 Agreed. The video threw me off when they explained their testing protocol, but indeed looking at the whole video they do mention it. Just their first test/protocol was ... sorta useless ... but they got around to it later in the video, so yeah, all good.
0:25 simple answer, traction mtb and gravel tires have treads designed to grab onto the terrain (usually gravel, dirt and rock) and prevent slipping and sliding. On the pavement, that works against us because the tread works as intended, creating more friction and therefore, not giving much acceleration
Wow...you've got this set up extremely well...I think with the 30's, even with all being equal, you are still left with greater air volume to make for a better more comfortable ride albeit the trade off slight weight gain. I moved up from 23's to 28's for riding on stone aggregate exposed bitumen roads in my area, the buzzing vibrations were almost totally eliminated using the 28 Conti's at around 70~75psi, definitely a faster setup under the conditions than 23's at 100psi.
My sweet spot used to be GP4000 28s for long distance ultra racing. They measured 30mm on my rims and were my sweetspot for my type of riding. Recent Conti tyres such as 5000 and 4seasons now measure true to size. I’ve had to switch to 30c schwalbe ones as Conti 32mm I feel are too big a jump.
Interesting video but a bit beside the point. I'm an ME working in vehicle dynamics. Rolling resistance is a function of hysteresis in the rubber tire casing and tube at a molecular level as well as friction between the too. These power losses are expelled as heat energy when the rubber deforms into the shape of the road surface. Formula one racing tires get hot! As tire pressure increases the contact patch gets smaller and deformation in the tire required to form the contact patch is lessened resulting in less rolling resistance. The difference in frontal area of a 700x26c and 700x30c is insignificant (about 28cm^2) compared to the human and bike (about 5,500 cm^2) at cycling speeds (
Just a normal flared dropbar, pretty popular on gravel. He's got them quite narrow and hoods angled in so he can get into a TT position more easily. Setup arguably made popular by Dan Bigham.
If knowing you're going as fast as possible is what you enjoy, go narrow. You will feel faster. If you, like me, want a fast bike that makes you want to jump off curbs and just have fun, 32s is the way to go. Just switched and I'm having so much fun on my bike now. The comfort between the two is night and day. It does feel a little sluggish, but personally I think the trade off is well worth it.
I used to associate harsh ride feel with speed and rode 23mm tires at over 100 PSI. Twenty+ years later, I now associate long term comfort, grip, and stability with speed using 32mm tires at ~65 PSI while riding awful roads in the Midwestern USA. Wide tires offer the added bonus of being able to ride gravel rails-to-trails trails with no problem.
Some testers test only different width tyres at the same pressure, but the optimal pressure of the wide tyre, which is totally out of realistic conditions, totally worthless
Contact area is a function of pressure only. For a given pressure the smaller tire and larger tire will have the same contact area. However you are correct in that the casing tension will be larger for the larger diameter tire, roughly 15 percent.
@Pablo Morales Well, yes, and I see what you're trying to say, but without inflation the tyre casing is not very stiff at all, so its stiffness is created by (and probably proportional to) the inflation pressure. I'd need to think about this (or can you provide a complete reference to support this statement?), but I feel that everything would come out in the mathematical wash and you'd find that contact patch is indeed proportional to tyre pressure.
@Pablo Morales Well yes, and clearly car tyres in particular have much higher inherent stiffness as they don't change shape much when deflated. Road bike tyres do not retain their shape very well when deflated - and in particular do blow up somewhat like the balloon example you give, although they're obviously nowhere near so elastic. Anyway, it can't be that complicated to model as it's mostly Newtonian physics, so there must be references somewhere? (btw, there's a converse example for your steel roller example - how does it deform when subjected to very high load?)
@Pablo Morales Well, that's because the wall shape changes, which (presumably, based on experiment) results in less loss of energy in the sidewall due to the sidewall flex when loaded. Anyway, I really would be interested in a solid (engineering/maths) reference to this. It's clear that inflation affects sidewall tension (the magnitude and angle of which is responsible for transmitting the load ultimately), which will affect the deflection of the sidewall as it's loaded, and hence the contact patch shape at the very least. Mind experiments aren't enough though - it still isn't clear to me that the area of the contact patch would not fall out of a proper analysis as dependent on pressure alone. I'm not dismissing what you say as true, but I'd like to see the solid proof! (Experimental even).
@Pablo Morales Sorry - missed that. I'll have a look at it if I can find a library copy. In the meantime though, I had a quick look. e.g, these: the-contact-patch.com/book/road/c2019-the-contact-patch www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/resources/research/reports/384/docs/384.pdf has an extensive literature review etc. The first explicitly states that the sidewall carries ca. 5% of the load, which leaves the "contact patch" to carry the rest...which is supported by the tyre pressure. And that's for a car tyre. Obviously the distribution of stress in a tyre is complex, but it does seem that to first approximation my the initial statement is correct.
Thank you for this. I have wheels with 21 mm internal width and I am testing a shift from 28mm with standard butyl tubes to 26 mm with lighter butyl inner tubes. Not sure if it will make it a difference. Setup change maybe 100 g lighter. Still trying to find that sweet spot. My hope is the specialised turbo pro 26 are just a bit wider than 26 in the real world. Compared to the Vittora Rubino pro 28mm.
Oh my god, another one of these… I guess it’s tradition that every year each bike news/review website should do at least one “ArE wIdEr TyReS fAsTeR?” “test”. Just do a regular product highlight without pretending it’s some kind of “test”
TLDR; different tyre widths, the same comfort & rolling resistance 23mm@92 psi = 25mm@87 psi = 28mm@81 psi = 32mm@75 psi 23mm@100psi with be more aero 32mm@65psi will be smoother, and offer more compression before bottoming out for similar rolling resistance as 85psi 25mm
I was using 25c tubeless vittoria corsa next tires on my Bontrager Aeolus comp rim. Recently i have upgraded my rims, purchased Zipp 353 NSW hookless rim set and put 28c vittoria corsa next tires on them. I feel much faster and comfortable with new wheelset and wider tires. But i feel the Zipp 353 NSW is minimum 28c and i should go wider. Now ordered Vittoria corsa next 30c. I will tell the difference when tires arrives and i put them on. My frame says 32c maximum tire clearence (Trek Madone)
a 25mm tyre will always be faster than a 30mm tyre on an average tarmaced road. If you're in a race you should never use a tyre larger than 25mm on the front wheel, and you can use up to a 28 on the rear. Personally I use 23mm front and 26mm rear (fast cotton sidewall tyres with latex tubes). This is the most aerodynamic set up while still having good comfort, cornering ability, and weight. Another thing is that your tyre width is entirely determined by the external width of your rims, the tyres should always be the same or slightly smaller than the width of the rims. The only time you should use 28mm tyres front and rear is for casual riding, gravel races, and road races with cobbled sections.
The conclusion is: If inflated to proper pressures for each, there's no significant difference between the rolling resistance of tyres of the same construction. But, wider tyres offer more comfort and more grip. So the answer seems to be simple - wider is better.
My preference is 25mm tires. I tried 28's but really didn't like it. Could be the rolling weight of the Cinturato Velo's that I was running. I just felt sluggish, and slow to get up to speed. I switched to 25mm GP5000 AS TR, set them up between 65-70 PSI - which thankfully I can do thanks to tubeless tech. I'll take the lower weight too.
Try the front tire at a lower pressure ! Yeah put a little more in the rear than those calculators " " "suggest " . Anyway that will lower your rolling resistance and avoid the pinch. The front tire at a lower pressure will give you a good contact patch and and be comfortable. I often have a different tire up front too. Sticky with lower flat protection. ...rather loose the rear wheel first. So the rear I opt for more flat protection and longevity. You naturally have more grip in the back because of the weight distribution. Experiment and go with what is right for you. Spoke tension is also a factor and should be adjusted ( there is some room to play here ) to the riders weight and riding habits. Everone has a different fit and riding style...above all enjoy and ride like the wind.
Im really curious about why the cycling scientist working in aerodynamic field didnt find out the ‘aeroest’ width decades ago? They were using 22/23mm most of the time.
good to normal roads. : 28mm normal to rough roads : 32mm bad roads and gravel : 40mm at least ( so depending on the conditions and also on the basic level of comfort one wants to ride with, also on the bike itself of course !! )
I like the video, and mostly agree, but -but- I have a hard time believing that the 4mm difference between 26mm and 30mm tires (tyres) can have any significant aero difference for the vast majority of riders, given the relatively gigantic aero profile of the bike and rider overall. Skinnier tires almost certainly still have a place in road riding, but, as you mentioned, it has a lot more to with weight than with air resistance. Honestly, if you want to ride faster, your best bet is probably just to lose 3kg from your own body.
I ride for transportation, not racing. 29x76mm roll over pot holes, rocks, small animals, and so forth. Obviously others have different needs and goals than I do. Any tire that makes my bike more fun is a win for me.
@11:37: is it me, or is that tire not installed correctly (according to the check line on the tire that should be at equal distance to the rim, but disappears into the rim on the right side of the sceen)? Otherwise, great comprehensive and clear video. Good work!
Are your sure it's not local councils encouraging wider tyres so they don't have to maintain roads? I find little comfort improvement between 25 and 28, but I do notice the extra weight.
There is zero chance you notice the extra weight. Depending on the tire, the difference between 25 and 28 mm tires is 15-20 grams. When and what you last ate, when you last went to the bathroom, what you are wearing, and other factors would have more impact on weight than that. And none of that is frankly very important unless you are a high-level, competitive crit racer or climber, and even then 20 grams is not meaningful.
@@donadams5094 it was actually a little bit more than that plus the larger tubes. Regardless the extra rotating weight definitely makes acceleration sluggish. Your comparison to body weight is as we all know not the same as riding a lighter bike which definitely makes a substantial difference.
Overall I love this! There's the tubeless element does effect this. I found ride even faster on lower psi. I generally roll on 28s and don't ever go higher than 65psi and weigh 75kg. Each time i've gone higher, I've had no material gain in speed, I thought I was going faster, but I wasn't. This winter, I'll be on 30 or even 32s.
Manufacturers want people to use widest tire they can to compensate the disc brake locking up the wheels race cars don't stop in shorter distance because of bigger brakes they do depending on how wide tires are big brakes are used just to minimize brake fading due to hi temperatures caused by constant braking
"If wider tires are faster, why aren't gravel bikes or MTBs faster?" this rhetorical question is born from the kind of dumb analysis that abounds these days.
IMO I think the future will be deep dish wheels front 45 mm deep & (27mm wide) & rear 60mm deep by ( 28 mm wide) ... Front tire will be 28 mm & rear tire will be 30 mm.
Trend is wider tires. Factors are climbing ride, or many starts and stops? For the folks looking to increase their tire width, their existing fork/frames may be the limiting factor. I have a few frames the max is either 23mm or 28mm. I just bought a new frame to allow me to go to 28mm, and also a 2nd for that allows me to go to 40mm. 90+ percent of the time I'm riding on a paved road, the rest, will alternate onto an unpaved rail path road.
Sorry but contact area is not afected by tyre width, but by tyre pressure anf force applied only Surface contact = Force/Presure What changes is the shape of the contact area and how the suppleness of the tyre affects rolling resistence.
I beg your pardon Kind Sir. Hope you will not mind stepping into my world with all its weirdness. Road bike and i weight 132 kg + i go shopping for food with it + 15kg. Total weight 147kg. After all of my research i have understood that my only safe option is 700 x 25 mm tire with 9 bars. i could only find one tire in the world with 9 bars - the higest available preasure. It is Vittoria Zaffiro Pro V G2.0. Any advice would be highly appretiated.
comparing roadbikes to mtb, gravel and cx bikes in terms of speed is like comparing apples to oranges .. obviously, it's not mainly about the tyres .. it's the frame design and the groupset used that influences the bike's speed the most ..
Hola, que modelo y de que año es la GIANT del vídeo? Tengo una GIANT TCR la primera que salió con discos de freno y quiero montar 30mm, pero no se si lo admitiría el cuadro, de momento llevó 28mm sin problemas. La otra duda es si mis ruedas BORA WTO 45 DISC admitirían neumáticos de 30mm ?
23mm & 25mm is very popular width tyre for cyclist. 28mm for slow rider, thats it. But now everyone promoting 30mm & 32mm, why? Is it more business, after watchin Video people buy wider tyre who already have a good pair.
come on guys... 26 to 30 is not sufficient... 26 to 38 is a real test... I got mine bike with 28s and I am not running 38s. I would run 42s if they would fit.
To anser your question: I use 30 & 32mm tires @ 3-3.5bars on both, i do not care about rolling resistance at all & comfort (due to bad back) is my #1 priority, 3bar is somewhat low for a 100kg bloke but it sure is smooth on my bad roads 😃👍
10+yrs ago i rode 23's cos everyone was on 23's, then i moved on to 25's on the same bike, it was more comfortable and I didnt notice a performance difference. This year I went to 28's, on the same bike, got even more comfort and again, didnt notice a performance difference. My bike cant take tires wider than 28 so im stuck with those for the foreseeable future but assuming I could go wider I'd be willing to go as wide as I can til i actually notice a performance drop cos it couldnt hurt to be more comfortable.
What tyre width do you use? Do you prefer more traditional 23mm or 25mm tyres? Or are you all in on wider rubber? Let us know in the comments!
No idea stick with 25mm…
26/27/28.
I like whatever's cheaper •_•
I wouldn’t believe the bs about wider tyres. 25mm are fine. Price hikes for wider tyres no thanks
25mm on my deep section road wheels. They match the rim width nicely and weigh less. If I want more comfort I'll just switch to my gravel wheelset, don't see much point in going with some ~30mm compromise.
Let me save you 15 minutes: Wider tires for rougher roads (traction). Narrow tires for smoother roads (aerodynamics). enjoy!
Hey thanks!
Great summary, but I still enjoyed this very orderly and sensible 15 minute version. Gives me more reasons to believe.
O
Yes... thanks 😎
Wait isnt the other way around…. Man Im about to send My hunt wheels back smh
"Wider tires offer better comfort and control" says man on 20 cm bars.
You’ve never ridden narrow drop bars have you? They feel awesome on tye road! And they’re faster
@@Advcrazy I live in an urban area near mountains; long climbs, descents, and broken asphalt, where narrow bars wouldn't make much sense.
@Pablo Morales Let's say there's no handling or power output drawback to narrow bars. Are you keeping your elbows in line with your hands at all times? Because if you aren't, you're negating much of the aero advantages of narrow bars. It's like riding a small frame with a slammed stem: in theory it's more aero, but in practice you can't stay in the right position for a substantial length of time before locking your elbows, throwing all those aero gains out the window.
i think 38cm below much more comfy to navigate the bunch on race. Idk but if youre racing you should consider switching to narrower bar
@Pablo Morales There is something called structural drag reduction. It is basically an object breaking the wind for an object behind it. If your arm is in a straight line with your hand in the bent elbows position you get that drag reduction all the way up the forearm. If the elbows are wingin' it Froome style then they're likely outside the zone in which the hand and subsequent forearm section are breaking the wind. You could also experience an upward rotation of your shoulder blades pushing your shoulders up towards your ears and elbows even wider. While the shoulder position could be more aero like a turtling head tuck it is unlikely when it's forced rather than relaxed into. Having the bars too narrow can also fix the shoulder blades in a forward position rounding off the shoulders. This could prevent a turtle head tuck and might push the head higher than even your standard road position. To me it seems you are the one looking at the hands in isolation and only considering the leading edge. Water is a pretty bad example too, because water is a much higher resistance and slower moving fluid especially compared to the speed of the diver. Diving is also a very brief activity, so the initial drag reduction in breaking the water surface is quite important. I get that in a timetrial there is merit to what you're saying, but in a timetrial you have significantly shorter distances, armpad support and at the pro level you won't need to look up much and strain your neck. It is much less important to consider ergonomics on a TT bike than a road bike and discomfort is much less likely to affect your ability to maintain your aerodynamics.
Currently run 36mm Challenge tires on my gravel bike and still manage to grab road KOMs. The effects of rolling resistance and aerodynamics are small compared to fitness. If your bike is more comfortable, you’re more likely to ride it longer and more frequently.
Facts, I’m running 37mm on my topstone and in agreement to everything you said.
absolutely true
Kom are about legs, not bikes
Are you running a 2x or 1x gearing?
Not all Koms are equal. Anyone can get a Kom really.
Is it just my eyes? Or are his handlebars terrifyingly narrow?
Is your bike a terrifying handful when you’re holding the tops? Handlebars can be narrow.
Those narrow bars look ugly
They are narrow for wanting to be aero at all costs
@@oldmancycling7440 It's not a beauty contest
narrow bars are aero
I rode the coast of Oregon in the US this past June with a tubeless 28 mm set up. Fast, smooth, predictable and no flats even in the instance of being blown off the road by the gust of a passing semi. The roads were pristine to rather course throughout the distance.. I would repeat the same setup and recommend everything I did. Used hed Ardennes wheels Teravail tires orange seal sealant
What tires did you use?
As a younger rider in my youth I liked 23c on my road bike, but as the years go on and I gotten wider I’ve found my tyres have widened too!!! Now run 32c tyres nice and comfortable for my old body 😄
Thank you for making this video, i have been saying this on my channel. But you get nay sayers.
I have been saying the biggest influence is road surface and the ability of the tyre to absorb the imperfections in the road, either soft flexible sidewalls or a bigger volume of air to absorb these imperfections. So what is the faster tyre? "it depends".
On good surfaces 21-25mm higher pressures are the best for aero, but as the road surface deteriorates the importance of road surface imperfections becomes the dominant energy to overcome. Everytime you ride over a bump, the forward energy needs to lift the bike and rider taking energy away from the forward motion.
Therefore high pressure, skinny tyres for good surfaces, wider lower pressures, for poor surfaces.
There is no overall "faster tyre"
One of the best videos I've seen on tire width vs. rolling resistance. Well done for taking the time to dive into the details that matter.
I think and feel 28c has a sweet spot for endurance rides.
25c for the races and 30-32c gravel when the path and weather get sketchy
Hi brother can you give instagram id
Agree
I think depends on the race. In the US our races are mostly crits with a lot of 90 degree hard turns. The 28-30c tires are definitely most common these days because you can corner at faster speeds
Running wider tires with the same air pressure, is missing one of the points. If you look at the science behind the wider tires recommendations, one of the factor is that vibration caused by higher tire pressure is energy lost and that it also causes more rider fatigue.
Not vibration caused by higher pressure. Vibration from pressures TOO high
90psi, 25mm, on bad UK roads works for a lot of surfaces for 75kg me
This video says exactly what bicyclerollingresistance says. Identical rolling resistance for different tyre widths when they're setup to offer the same tyre compression
Well done for commenting before watching the whole video
@@michaelwillis4528 Thanks! It took alot of efforts, i'm happy you appreciate it!
@@Mike0 Agreed. The video threw me off when they explained their testing protocol, but indeed looking at the whole video they do mention it. Just their first test/protocol was ... sorta useless ... but they got around to it later in the video, so yeah, all good.
0:25 simple answer, traction mtb and gravel tires have treads designed to grab onto the terrain (usually gravel, dirt and rock) and prevent slipping and sliding. On the pavement, that works against us because the tread works as intended, creating more friction and therefore, not giving much acceleration
28mm plus is also a benefit to bike manufacturers as most pre 2015 frames won't fit them! Cha ching!
Wow...you've got this set up extremely well...I think with the 30's, even with all being equal, you are still left with greater air volume to make for a better more comfortable ride albeit the trade off slight weight gain.
I moved up from 23's to 28's for riding on stone aggregate exposed bitumen roads in my area, the buzzing vibrations were almost totally eliminated using the 28 Conti's at around 70~75psi, definitely a faster setup under the conditions than 23's at 100psi.
I still ride on 23 mm tires and I don't have any problems with it. I guess I've got used to them over the years.
@King Of Crunk 8 years old Canyon CF SLX
My sweet spot used to be GP4000 28s for long distance ultra racing. They measured 30mm on my rims and were my sweetspot for my type of riding.
Recent Conti tyres such as 5000 and 4seasons now measure true to size.
I’ve had to switch to 30c schwalbe ones as Conti 32mm I feel are too big a jump.
Interesting video but a bit beside the point. I'm an ME working in vehicle dynamics. Rolling resistance is a function of hysteresis in the rubber tire casing and tube at a molecular level as well as friction between the too. These power losses are expelled as heat energy when the rubber deforms into the shape of the road surface. Formula one racing tires get hot! As tire pressure increases the contact patch gets smaller and deformation in the tire required to form the contact patch is lessened resulting in less rolling resistance. The difference in frontal area of a 700x26c and 700x30c is insignificant (about 28cm^2) compared to the human and bike (about 5,500 cm^2) at cycling speeds (
What a strange dropbar
Just a normal flared dropbar, pretty popular on gravel. He's got them quite narrow and hoods angled in so he can get into a TT position more easily. Setup arguably made popular by Dan Bigham.
"Strange" wouldn't be the word I'd use once it came to standing up and trying to climb a hill, or doing 35mph+ down a bumpy bit of road.
Thank you for this Video, Elephant in the room (Please tell us about your narrow bar choice)
Thanks for watching! Simon has promised to make a video all about his favourite bar width - spoiler alert - it's narrower than most stock handlebars!
26cm? He’s brave going off-road!
Those bars look crazy narrow compared with the current gravel bike trend. I wondered initially if it was a trick of the lens but no...
I run a 25 tubeless up front for aero and a 32 in the rear for comfort. Both set at the optimal pressures for me, makes for a fast and comfy ride.
yep, unless you got a flexy seatpost like the canyon's :p
If knowing you're going as fast as possible is what you enjoy, go narrow. You will feel faster. If you, like me, want a fast bike that makes you want to jump off curbs and just have fun, 32s is the way to go. Just switched and I'm having so much fun on my bike now. The comfort between the two is night and day. It does feel a little sluggish, but personally I think the trade off is well worth it.
I used to associate harsh ride feel with speed and rode 23mm tires at over 100 PSI. Twenty+ years later, I now associate long term comfort, grip, and stability with speed using 32mm tires at ~65 PSI while riding awful roads in the Midwestern USA. Wide tires offer the added bonus of being able to ride gravel rails-to-trails trails with no problem.
Not lying about the midwest roads. In Michigan they are garbage
Some testers test only different width tyres at the same pressure, but the optimal pressure of the wide tyre, which is totally out of realistic conditions, totally worthless
11:37 - that tire doesn't look seated properly in that b-roll. I hope you weren't riding it like that. ;)
It was definitely not up on the bead.
Riding an unseated tire with that narrow ass bar. He is so cool.
Urm, are we going to talk about those handles bars?
It was honestly my only take away from the whole thing.
@@joelzylstra2971 What are those!!
@@christianrodriguez3531 UNSAFE!!
... handle* bars ...
11:37 30mm tyre not sitting in the bead off the right side of the screen. Not sure if this was the tested set up but may affect results.
Contact area is a function of pressure only. For a given pressure the smaller tire and larger tire will have the same contact area. However you are correct in that the casing tension will be larger for the larger diameter tire, roughly 15 percent.
Yes, I came here to type this too. Shape (not area) of contact patch will change though.
@Pablo Morales Well, yes, and I see what you're trying to say, but without inflation the tyre casing is not very stiff at all, so its stiffness is created by (and probably proportional to) the inflation pressure. I'd need to think about this (or can you provide a complete reference to support this statement?), but I feel that everything would come out in the mathematical wash and you'd find that contact patch is indeed proportional to tyre pressure.
@Pablo Morales Well yes, and clearly car tyres in particular have much higher inherent stiffness as they don't change shape much when deflated. Road bike tyres do not retain their shape very well when deflated - and in particular do blow up somewhat like the balloon example you give, although they're obviously nowhere near so elastic. Anyway, it can't be that complicated to model as it's mostly Newtonian physics, so there must be references somewhere? (btw, there's a converse example for your steel roller example - how does it deform when subjected to very high load?)
@Pablo Morales Well, that's because the wall shape changes, which (presumably, based on experiment) results in less loss of energy in the sidewall due to the sidewall flex when loaded. Anyway, I really would be interested in a solid (engineering/maths) reference to this. It's clear that inflation affects sidewall tension (the magnitude and angle of which is responsible for transmitting the load ultimately), which will affect the deflection of the sidewall as it's loaded, and hence the contact patch shape at the very least. Mind experiments aren't enough though - it still isn't clear to me that the area of the contact patch would not fall out of a proper analysis as dependent on pressure alone. I'm not dismissing what you say as true, but I'd like to see the solid proof! (Experimental even).
@Pablo Morales Sorry - missed that. I'll have a look at it if I can find a library copy. In the meantime though, I had a quick look. e.g, these: the-contact-patch.com/book/road/c2019-the-contact-patch www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/resources/research/reports/384/docs/384.pdf has an extensive literature review etc. The first explicitly states that the sidewall carries ca. 5% of the load, which leaves the "contact patch" to carry the rest...which is supported by the tyre pressure. And that's for a car tyre. Obviously the distribution of stress in a tyre is complex, but it does seem that to first approximation my the initial statement is correct.
Thank you for this. I have wheels with 21 mm internal width and I am testing a shift from 28mm with standard butyl tubes to 26 mm with lighter butyl inner tubes. Not sure if it will make it a difference. Setup change maybe 100 g lighter. Still trying to find that sweet spot. My hope is the specialised turbo pro 26 are just a bit wider than 26 in the real world. Compared to the Vittora Rubino pro 28mm.
Oh my god, another one of these… I guess it’s tradition that every year each bike news/review website should do at least one “ArE wIdEr TyReS fAsTeR?” “test”. Just do a regular product highlight without pretending it’s some kind of “test”
Just product placement, nothing else - Pirreli P-Zero, Sportful, Giant...
TLDR; different tyre widths, the same comfort & rolling resistance
23mm@92 psi =
25mm@87 psi =
28mm@81 psi =
32mm@75 psi
23mm@100psi with be more aero
32mm@65psi will be smoother, and offer more compression before bottoming out for similar rolling resistance as 85psi 25mm
... will* be more aero ...
Same old hoopla and all we got for 15 mins is an "it depends".....
I was using 25c tubeless vittoria corsa next tires on my Bontrager Aeolus comp rim. Recently i have upgraded my rims, purchased Zipp 353 NSW hookless rim set and put 28c vittoria corsa next tires on them. I feel much faster and comfortable with new wheelset and wider tires. But i feel the Zipp 353 NSW is minimum 28c and i should go wider. Now ordered Vittoria corsa next 30c. I will tell the difference when tires arrives and i put them on. My frame says 32c maximum tire clearence (Trek Madone)
Excellent video, 28-30mm for me, predominantly about comfort 👍
That handlebar got me hit "dont recommend channel" button. What good advise can we get from someone riding such setup.
a 25mm tyre will always be faster than a 30mm tyre on an average tarmaced road. If you're in a race you should never use a tyre larger than 25mm on the front wheel, and you can use up to a 28 on the rear. Personally I use 23mm front and 26mm rear (fast cotton sidewall tyres with latex tubes). This is the most aerodynamic set up while still having good comfort, cornering ability, and weight. Another thing is that your tyre width is entirely determined by the external width of your rims, the tyres should always be the same or slightly smaller than the width of the rims. The only time you should use 28mm tyres front and rear is for casual riding, gravel races, and road races with cobbled sections.
I was so worried after first part "same pressure" ... You make it right so now I am subscriber.
based on the idea of friction wider should be slower. I haven't watched the entire show yet.
I could be surprised.
Good job Simon, i was worried at the start, i shouldn't have been.
Thank you! Valuable information! Good Luck!
The super narrow bars with excess cabling sticking out into the wind did make me laugh
The conclusion is: If inflated to proper pressures for each, there's no significant difference between the rolling resistance of tyres of the same construction. But, wider tyres offer more comfort and more grip. So the answer seems to be simple - wider is better.
My preference is 25mm tires. I tried 28's but really didn't like it. Could be the rolling weight of the Cinturato Velo's that I was running. I just felt sluggish, and slow to get up to speed. I switched to 25mm GP5000 AS TR, set them up between 65-70 PSI - which thankfully I can do thanks to tubeless tech. I'll take the lower weight too.
Try the front tire at a lower pressure ! Yeah put a little more in the rear than those calculators " " "suggest " . Anyway that will lower your rolling resistance and avoid the pinch. The front tire at a lower pressure will give you a good contact patch and and be comfortable. I often have a different tire up front too. Sticky with lower flat protection. ...rather loose the rear wheel first. So the rear I opt for more flat protection and longevity. You naturally have more grip in the back because of the weight distribution. Experiment and go with what is right for you. Spoke tension is also a factor and should be adjusted ( there is some room to play here ) to the riders weight and riding habits. Everone has a different fit and riding style...above all enjoy and ride like the wind.
Im really curious about why the cycling scientist working in aerodynamic field didnt find out the ‘aeroest’ width decades ago? They were using 22/23mm most of the time.
No way I'll be found alive on anything above 28mm... anything wider I jump on to a MTB
Im still waiting to hear the verdict for real life riding...
26c is still wider than anything we were riding 20 years ago. How about include a 21c and a 35c to make it really interesting.
good to normal roads. : 28mm
normal to rough roads : 32mm
bad roads and gravel : 40mm at least
( so depending on the conditions and also on the basic level of comfort one wants to ride with, also on the bike itself of course !! )
I like the video, and mostly agree, but -but- I have a hard time believing that the 4mm difference between 26mm and 30mm tires (tyres) can have any significant aero difference for the vast majority of riders, given the relatively gigantic aero profile of the bike and rider overall. Skinnier tires almost certainly still have a place in road riding, but, as you mentioned, it has a lot more to with weight than with air resistance.
Honestly, if you want to ride faster, your best bet is probably just to lose 3kg from your own body.
A lot of details in regards to what ever tire size,not one word about going out on your favor ride and have fun doing it!!
Aero myths. The biggest modification is not width but the smoothness of the tire rim interface. Little known but this alone increases aero gains.
I ride for transportation, not racing. 29x76mm roll over pot holes, rocks, small animals, and so forth. Obviously others have different needs and goals than I do. Any tire that makes my bike more fun is a win for me.
@11:37: is it me, or is that tire not installed correctly (according to the check line on the tire that should be at equal distance to the rim, but disappears into the rim on the right side of the sceen)?
Otherwise, great comprehensive and clear video. Good work!
Are your sure it's not local councils encouraging wider tyres so they don't have to maintain roads? I find little comfort improvement between 25 and 28, but I do notice the extra weight.
There is zero chance you notice the extra weight. Depending on the tire, the difference between 25 and 28 mm tires is 15-20 grams. When and what you last ate, when you last went to the bathroom, what you are wearing, and other factors would have more impact on weight than that. And none of that is frankly very important unless you are a high-level, competitive crit racer or climber, and even then 20 grams is not meaningful.
@@donadams5094 it was actually a little bit more than that plus the larger tubes. Regardless the extra rotating weight definitely makes acceleration sluggish. Your comparison to body weight is as we all know not the same as riding a lighter bike which definitely makes a substantial difference.
@@bikeman123 Continental GP 5000 25c = 225 grams
Continental GP 5000 28c = 240 grams
Those 15 grams must feel like bricks. Smh
Outstanding video.
700x28 for me
Overall I love this! There's the tubeless element does effect this. I found ride even faster on lower psi. I generally roll on 28s and don't ever go higher than 65psi and weigh 75kg. Each time i've gone higher, I've had no material gain in speed, I thought I was going faster, but I wasn't. This winter, I'll be on 30 or even 32s.
Narrow tyres pumped up to 120 psi are faster. Wide tyres is just some mad industry rip off
Manufacturers want people to use widest tire they can to compensate the disc brake locking up the wheels race cars don't stop in shorter distance because of bigger brakes they do depending on how wide tires are big brakes are used just to minimize brake fading due to hi temperatures caused by constant braking
"If wider tires are faster, why aren't gravel bikes or MTBs faster?" this rhetorical question is born from the kind of dumb analysis that abounds these days.
All I can focus on is this guy’s handlebars.
Rolling resistance be damned. I’ll take grip first every time. Rene Herse Bon Jon 36c slicks for all rides.
Profile photo checks out
IMO I think the future will be deep dish wheels front 45 mm deep & (27mm wide) & rear 60mm deep by ( 28 mm wide) ... Front tire will be 28 mm & rear tire will be 30 mm.
I was unable to find 30mm tires after an exhaustive search, prior to a 340 mile ride I did last spring.
Trend is wider tires. Factors are climbing ride, or many starts and stops? For the folks looking to increase their tire width, their existing fork/frames may be the limiting factor. I have a few frames the max is either 23mm or 28mm. I just bought a new frame to allow me to go to 28mm, and also a 2nd for that allows me to go to 40mm. 90+ percent of the time I'm riding on a paved road, the rest, will alternate onto an unpaved rail path road.
Sorry but contact area is not afected by tyre width, but by tyre pressure anf force applied only
Surface contact = Force/Presure
What changes is the shape of the contact area and how the suppleness of the tyre affects rolling resistence.
I beg your pardon Kind Sir.
Hope you will not mind stepping into my world with all its weirdness.
Road bike and i weight 132 kg + i go shopping for food with it + 15kg.
Total weight 147kg.
After all of my research i have understood that my only safe option is 700 x 25 mm tire with 9 bars.
i could only find one tire in the world with 9 bars - the higest available preasure. It is Vittoria Zaffiro Pro V G2.0.
Any advice would be highly appretiated.
comparing roadbikes to mtb, gravel and cx bikes in terms of speed is like comparing apples to oranges .. obviously, it's not mainly about the tyres .. it's the frame design and the groupset used that influences the bike's speed the most ..
I use 25mm GP5000. It blows up to 26mm on my 27mm wide Reynolds wheels to give an aero advantage!
Take away is….. The wider the tire, the narrower the handlebars look.
29x2.3 on 30mm rim and sealed bearing front and rear
Really surprising, aerodynamics are a greater factor than rolling resistance.
Take away? Narrow tire at rates pressure bounce more in road to dissipate and waste more energy compare to wider tire at proportional psi.
How narrow are those handle bars? Time to fall down another rabbit hole.
And on hills the increased weight of the wider tyre slows you down
Hola, que modelo y de que año es la GIANT del vídeo? Tengo una GIANT TCR la primera que salió con discos de freno y quiero montar 30mm, pero no se si lo admitiría el cuadro, de momento llevó 28mm sin problemas. La otra duda es si mis ruedas BORA WTO 45 DISC admitirían neumáticos de 30mm ?
I have settled for 28mm …. Good balance.
Wider back frame
With longer hub
Longer axle can hold more speed
i use 26x4 knobby boyz
I guess he is running narrower handlebars to compensate for the added aero drag of wider tires.
Handlebars more ridiculous than anything you'd see at Oktoberfest
23mm & 25mm is very popular width tyre for cyclist. 28mm for slow rider, thats it. But now everyone promoting 30mm & 32mm, why? Is it more business, after watchin Video people buy wider tyre who already have a good pair.
I have these tires in the SL 28mm and I love them 😍 🥰👍👌
Way to go buddy!
come on guys... 26 to 30 is not sufficient... 26 to 38 is a real test... I got mine bike with 28s and I am not running 38s. I would run 42s if they would fit.
To anser your question: I use 30 & 32mm tires @ 3-3.5bars on both, i do not care about rolling resistance at all & comfort (due to bad back) is my #1 priority, 3bar is somewhat low for a 100kg bloke but it sure is smooth on my bad roads 😃👍
Just product placement - Pirelli P-Zerro, nothing else.
@Wooly Chewbakker specilized roubiax is comfier. Mate has both.
WHAT ARE THOSEEEEE (the handle bars)
10+yrs ago i rode 23's cos everyone was on 23's, then i moved on to 25's on the same bike, it was more comfortable and I didnt notice a performance difference. This year I went to 28's, on the same bike, got even more comfort and again, didnt notice a performance difference. My bike cant take tires wider than 28 so im stuck with those for the foreseeable future but assuming I could go wider I'd be willing to go as wide as I can til i actually notice a performance drop cos it couldnt hurt to be more comfortable.
shimano 105 brakes?
Should've used regular folding tires.
Are you serious with that opening question?? 🙄
I have a hard time believing that what do everybody say when the tires is low pump it up
But 26c is allready considered wide. Come on 21mm tubs is where it was at!
I remember running 18c on my TT bike back in the day... Felt like riding on the bare rims it was so harsh.
I run 28c on my winter bike and 25c on my summer bike.
Somebody please feed this man!
your bar is so narrow 😁
28 its enough...beyond this is gravel
I didn't know they made drop bars for 3 years olds. Wow are those narrow.
Can I pay with pay pal?
Will 30mm tires fit 8th gen TCR?
30mm with 100psi, that's my call