The author, @uidotdev, makes some of the most quality videos out there. The time he took on this video must of been immense! GIVE HIM A SUB TO SAY THANK YOU Original: th-cam.com/video/Wm_xI7KntDs/w-d-xo.html Author: www.youtube.com/@uidotdev
I have been having so much fun with these reactions, because it's about the information you provide. I have watched all this videos and as someone who does not have much experience in these sorts of details, I can't critique the videos and so to me I believe the videos but with you doing a counter argument with reference to the videos argument gives me a much better overall understanding of the history and direction of programming. I hope you would continue this prime.
Damn this consistent content! I love it, thanks to u I am trying out svelte, learning to master my tools, learning how to type fast, and enjoying the way I learn. You are a true inspiration. Never stop posting content, you are changing lives!
Chat: *ries to look like developers and belonging* "jQuery, ugh eew jQuery, jQuery lol (do I belong now? do I have the right opinions?)" Prime: "jQuery was a godsend!" Chat: "loved jQuery, jQuery was the best, jQuery rocked. omg jQuery was amazing!"
I wrote a client side map app for nautical shipping charts with stuff like route planning, port navigation waypoints, piracy danger zone layer drawing, live-ish updates of known ship locations and port/commodity icons.... in 2011 with jQuery. Had to support IE because every enterprise customer was still mired in the IIS intranet hellscape of activex web applications. What a wild ride.
Don't know if they covered this in the video you're reacting to, but I believe a big reason React grew in popularity was because of the Angular 2.0 announcement. People were so pissed that it wouldn't be backwards compatible and essentially a new framework that the community scrambled to find an alternative. Ember and React were two major alternatives and React was way more flexible.
I remember when I first heard about React, and it just made so much sense to me. I come from a gaming background. There, we need to render the entire screen every frame. UI included. So that mental model transferred seamlessly to React. The virtual DOM was such a hot topic back then, too. Yet, its an implementation detail required for good performance, but there’s nothing too amazing about the idea (the implementation might have some amazing code, idk). All in all, I’m pretty happy with React and today’s Function Components, which are even more alike developing UIs in videogames (as opposed to Class Components).
I think the real reason that it won is that Angular, called Angular 2 at the time really felt verbose enough that it felt like working in Java swing. JSX looked bonkers to me at first, but I really think it's the best feature to come out of the React "eco system".
5 years working with react, still think JSX is de dumbest thing. It actually would be better if it was just plain js, as it's possible instead of to just design it to be SomeStuff(...) - the way it's done in Flutter. JSX syntax just contributes absolute nothing yet it adds complexity. It may be helpful copy-pasting html but I hardly ever done that as I tend to use some sort of component libs that abstract away html thus code isn't really html to begin with. Yet when it comes to writing html - a dedicated template language would just still make things so much better. The win of JSX is just that it gives good intellisense - problem with old school template languages is that they didn't think of that part. Yet modern template languages often come with static validation and intellisense.
@@sk-sm9shwith jsx you have all the attributes of html elements (not that in flutter that isn’t true) expressed as html attributes. I can see why a custom component would not gain anything from jsx sintax, most components will use html elements, and those are so much better written as html elements instead of using a constructor function
@@Slashx92 html attributes can be expressed as properties you don't need jsx to express properties. But it's still even better to write html using templating language as they are much more effective in building html compared to jsx. And you say that mostlly html is used but in fact in many cases how React is used today most code is not html - instead it's built on top of ui frameworks for instance Radix UI and in fact writing html tags becomes antipattern as it's too low level to express applications. If you're building website then yes html is the way. If you're building application and you're writing UI in html you have big problem as you're using language that is too low level instead it's necessary to build UI components (from html) and then build applications from UI components. And then you get worst of both worlds - if you take a look at implementation of React based UI component libraries -- it's nightmarish as there is always very small ratio of html versus javascript and custom hacks with passing references to html nodes and then working on top of DOM (forwardRef is necesary every time) to work around React limitations. And then in application-level code there is no benefit of JSX because there is no html.
19:10 deno is probably pronounced like the brontosaurus on the flintstones given they have a brontosaurus as the logo. But I think the inspiration for the name came from Ryan dahls obsession with the letters N-O-D-E.
Back when I was forced to support IE6 until MS finally killed it, jQuery saved me hours of writing polyfills and crazy xhr request. It was truly awe inspiring in its time when you first learned how to use it.
The amount of times I had to beg and plead, with data to back me up, that we should no longer support any version of IE since the last version was already declared EOD a year ago still gives me nightmares.
The initial idea of react was absolutely beautiful and for the "web world" revolutionary. A lot of that magic was lost over time and the way that we use it today leads most people to not even know what the original idea was and how brilliantly simple it was or that it was inspired by how video games work.
Nextjs intro docs provide clear insights, and through its examples, grapple the practilities of 'why react' that the uidotdev video doesn't quite reach. Good video nonetheless from a historical perspective.
In 1996 I developers the first online bookstore here in the Netherlands. My employer then is the largest book- and stationary store and they wanted to jump at this new thing called the web. And obviously they go the only IT guy (me) to build this. I have gotten a severe trauma! Writing header parser in C to be parsed and run quick enough because we only had cgi-bin and Perl simply was too big to start fast enough. Especially on this “massive 486DX2 with a whopping 64MB”. And I as hell! In early 2000s I did a Perl cgi-bin and later a PHP as invoice and hour registration tool For my old boss and that crap is still running 20 years on. But that was it, I didn’t want to deal with web crap anymore till last year and seriously last month when I wrote a strategic puzzle game. It’s a hell of a lot easier now, but still not fun! If you ever write fat client UIs you just loathe the web!
For my personal web apps I use HTMF, a HTMX-like minimal library. I write it in a service worker for an offline-first web experience. I like the simplicity. State is handled by IndexedDB partial page updates from HTMF and sometime full page refreshes (one of my apps doesn't use HTMF and I've just been doing full page refreshes from the service worker, but some parts would benefit from it so I'll be adding it). The soccer app I have has so much state on one of the pages that a page refresh (or rather most of the page is refreshed but not all of it) doesn't cut it. So, I'll be changing just that one page over to Svelte.
This was more sentimental to me than those 'kids in the 90s nostalgia trip vids'. JQuery was terrible, but it was everywhere just as agile/scrum was going everywhere, and I feel like they had the same issue: overloading their purpose. Backbone and AMD -- man, that was my jelly. I programmed apps, games, firmware, but something about Backbone and AMD on web dev really made me appreciate architecture and more wholistic thinking around language, tooling, and framework integration. Also, moving from vim v emacs to grunt v gulp was probably the highlight of my two-tennies.
I was hoping to see more on Angular. I hated AngularJS (1), but I had to use it all over the place. I worked on Angular (2+) and it was ok. But React v AngularJS is important to React's history. AngularJS devs were hard core. I worked at a 2018 startup that built everything in Angular 1.4.. Upgrading it, architecting around it ... really reenforced why react 'won' against AngularJS and even its younger chad brother, Angular.
back in 2015 when I was in a startup, they were using jquery I wanted react and the CEO said no, but today I would prefer to use jquery for mostly static sites and elm for mostly dynamic sites.
jQuery is still amazing if you have to deal with a lot of dom traversal/manipulation on top of HTML. You can find elements, change class, add attributes and attach event listeners all in the single expression. Only problem is it's sheer size. But you can get most of the jQuery just in 6kb by using cash-dom.
@@ThePrimeTimeagen my parents still live in Helena and a good amount of the homies still live there. I was at MSU for 15 years 05-20 as a student then employee
When react was presented with the dev tools that allowed you to set a state, or go back to previous states in the browser, that’s where my balls dropped.
Really depends what one wanted to do. If you build website which is 80% static and you just need a calendar input - jquery solves this perfectly and is still better than React as it is intended to work on top of static html as opposed to react's approach where whole app must be a react tree. On other hand if you wanted to build big rich app, there was capable frameworks like Dojo toolkit.
When React just came out there was Angular 1.0 and problems React promised to solve was not solved. So yeah, React was not pleasant experience at first. Specially if you know how to do the same with Angular 1.0.
To understand how important jQuery was, give it a google to see the API compatibility accross browsers before 2007, or just try to write a Generic HTTP request in JS compatible with all different browser APIs, support for IE < 11 and using only the ECMA < 3 version. people should be obliged to do it before writting "Modern Frontend", the tons of shitty code generated by developers that just start with this modern Frames are awfull as f*ck
I hate JSX, the first time I used React I found a library that gave you better js functions to use react and avoided JSX and I could interact with React in the browser.
Adding a build time to something that does not need a build is just silly. I will never understand the logic behind React after React Native was removed from React. If React supported something other than just HTML5 then it would have a reason to exist.
React has changed the world, and In my opinion, React killed PHP. Hook look like magic to me, and redux make state manager too hard, and zusland make it easy.
@@clamhammer2463 The biggest advantage of php is its fast development speed. React makes front-end development faster. React+java (or other back-end languages) and php have the same speed and provide stronger services at the same time, so the space of php is squeezed out.
@@wda6123 The biggest advantage of php is its fast development speed. React makes front-end development faster. React+java (or other back-end languages) and php have the same speed and provide stronger services at the same time, so the space of php is squeezed out.
The author, @uidotdev, makes some of the most quality videos out there. The time he took on this video must of been immense! GIVE HIM A SUB TO SAY THANK YOU
Original: th-cam.com/video/Wm_xI7KntDs/w-d-xo.html
Author: www.youtube.com/@uidotdev
well backbone,riot,meteor = vue basicly
Stop stealing content you slimy pos.
go Review the Reacts Mortal Enemy, Angular2+ hahaha
I have been having so much fun with these reactions, because it's about the information you provide. I have watched all this videos and as someone who does not have much experience in these sorts of details, I can't critique the videos and so to me I believe the videos but with you doing a counter argument with reference to the videos argument gives me a much better overall understanding of the history and direction of programming. I hope you would continue this prime.
Thank you my man. I feel like it's more fun to have conversational items as opposed to just strictly teaching videos
I’m a professional engineer. I always learn new stuff thanks to him. And his enthusiasm makes me want to go deeper into some topics
Please never stop
I AM TRYING OUT HERE!!
don't make him burnout bro
MOAR COWBELL!
@@ettarooTransslatte tu inglesias
My favourite part about debugging on IE is when just opening the dev tools caused the js to behave differently
lmao is this true? did this actually happen? *insert elon meme*
Damn this consistent content! I love it, thanks to u I am trying out svelte, learning to master my tools, learning how to type fast, and enjoying the way I learn. You are a true inspiration. Never stop posting content, you are changing lives!
Chat: *ries to look like developers and belonging* "jQuery, ugh eew jQuery, jQuery lol (do I belong now? do I have the right opinions?)"
Prime: "jQuery was a godsend!"
Chat: "loved jQuery, jQuery was the best, jQuery rocked. omg jQuery was amazing!"
they are all just pliable
this is so annoying with the primeagen chat they never have original thoughts
jQuery WAS good.
It's been bad for a long time. Like 5 years.
Nowadays it's really bad.
10 years ago, it was amazing.
@@3nt3_ more likely it's different people
I wrote a client side map app for nautical shipping charts with stuff like route planning, port navigation waypoints, piracy danger zone layer drawing, live-ish updates of known ship locations and port/commodity icons.... in 2011 with jQuery. Had to support IE because every enterprise customer was still mired in the IIS intranet hellscape of activex web applications. What a wild ride.
Don't know if they covered this in the video you're reacting to, but I believe a big reason React grew in popularity was because of the Angular 2.0 announcement. People were so pissed that it wouldn't be backwards compatible and essentially a new framework that the community scrambled to find an alternative. Ember and React were two major alternatives and React was way more flexible.
I remember when I first heard about React, and it just made so much sense to me.
I come from a gaming background. There, we need to render the entire screen every frame. UI included. So that mental model transferred seamlessly to React.
The virtual DOM was such a hot topic back then, too. Yet, its an implementation detail required for good performance, but there’s nothing too amazing about the idea (the implementation might have some amazing code, idk).
All in all, I’m pretty happy with React and today’s Function Components, which are even more alike developing UIs in videogames (as opposed to Class Components).
As someone who has 0 idea about web, it’s amazing to me seeing the web being reinvented every 3 years with ideas from the 80s 😂
You're gonna laugh your ass off when Rust replaces JavaScript and ALL the tools need to be re-written.
@@BusinessWolf1 I am very nooby dev, but is it really possible or is it just hype? Because to get rid of JS would be suprr
@@anandmahamuni5442 You can interact with the dom with WASM, but it's not on par with the js ecosystem as of now.
@@anandmahamuni5442 with wasm all you need a compiler from your favorite language to wasm and you are set, no need to use js anymore.
@@lastrae8129 You cannot interact with the dom, atleast directly. JavaScript interopt is necessary
Please never stop, never stopping
Programming JS in the dark ages was so bad, we put up with ActionScript and Flash just to escape it.
I loved AS back in the day.
I think the real reason that it won is that Angular, called Angular 2 at the time really felt verbose enough that it felt like working in Java swing.
JSX looked bonkers to me at first, but I really think it's the best feature to come out of the React "eco system".
5 years working with react, still think JSX is de dumbest thing. It actually would be better if it was just plain js, as it's possible instead of to just design it to be SomeStuff(...) - the way it's done in Flutter. JSX syntax just contributes absolute nothing yet it adds complexity. It may be helpful copy-pasting html but I hardly ever done that as I tend to use some sort of component libs that abstract away html thus code isn't really html to begin with. Yet when it comes to writing html - a dedicated template language would just still make things so much better. The win of JSX is just that it gives good intellisense - problem with old school template languages is that they didn't think of that part. Yet modern template languages often come with static validation and intellisense.
@@sk-sm9shwith jsx you have all the attributes of html elements (not that in flutter that isn’t true) expressed as html attributes. I can see why a custom component would not gain anything from jsx sintax, most components will use html elements, and those are so much better written as html elements instead of using a constructor function
@@Slashx92 html attributes can be expressed as properties you don't need jsx to express properties. But it's still even better to write html using templating language as they are much more effective in building html compared to jsx. And you say that mostlly html is used but in fact in many cases how React is used today most code is not html - instead it's built on top of ui frameworks for instance Radix UI and in fact writing html tags becomes antipattern as it's too low level to express applications. If you're building website then yes html is the way. If you're building application and you're writing UI in html you have big problem as you're using language that is too low level instead it's necessary to build UI components (from html) and then build applications from UI components. And then you get worst of both worlds - if you take a look at implementation of React based UI component libraries -- it's nightmarish as there is always very small ratio of html versus javascript and custom hacks with passing references to html nodes and then working on top of DOM (forwardRef is necesary every time) to work around React limitations. And then in application-level code there is no benefit of JSX because there is no html.
can't wait the story of solid js in 2-3 years later
19:10 deno is probably pronounced like the brontosaurus on the flintstones given they have a brontosaurus as the logo. But I think the inspiration for the name came from Ryan dahls obsession with the letters N-O-D-E.
Back when I was forced to support IE6 until MS finally killed it, jQuery saved me hours of writing polyfills and crazy xhr request. It was truly awe inspiring in its time when you first learned how to use it.
The amount of times I had to beg and plead, with data to back me up, that we should no longer support any version of IE since the last version was already declared EOD a year ago still gives me nightmares.
The initial idea of react was absolutely beautiful and for the "web world" revolutionary. A lot of that magic was lost over time and the way that we use it today leads most people to not even know what the original idea was and how brilliantly simple it was or that it was inspired by how video games work.
Nextjs intro docs provide clear insights, and through its examples, grapple the practilities of 'why react' that the uidotdev video doesn't quite reach. Good video nonetheless from a historical perspective.
In 1996 I developers the first online bookstore here in the Netherlands. My employer then is the largest book- and stationary store and they wanted to jump at this new thing called the web.
And obviously they go the only IT guy (me) to build this. I have gotten a severe trauma! Writing header parser in C to be parsed and run quick enough because we only had cgi-bin and Perl simply was too big to start fast enough. Especially on this “massive 486DX2 with a whopping 64MB”.
And I as hell! In early 2000s I did a Perl cgi-bin and later a PHP as invoice and hour registration tool
For my old boss and that crap is still running 20 years on.
But that was it, I didn’t want to deal with web crap anymore till last year and seriously last month when I wrote a strategic puzzle game.
It’s a hell of a lot easier now, but still not fun! If you ever write fat client UIs you just loathe the web!
For my personal web apps I use HTMF, a HTMX-like minimal library. I write it in a service worker for an offline-first web experience. I like the simplicity. State is handled by IndexedDB partial page updates from HTMF and sometime full page refreshes (one of my apps doesn't use HTMF and I've just been doing full page refreshes from the service worker, but some parts would benefit from it so I'll be adding it).
The soccer app I have has so much state on one of the pages that a page refresh (or rather most of the page is refreshed but not all of it) doesn't cut it. So, I'll be changing just that one page over to Svelte.
honestly I like Jquery. it feels like the native js dom api, with helper functions.
This was more sentimental to me than those 'kids in the 90s nostalgia trip vids'.
JQuery was terrible, but it was everywhere just as agile/scrum was going everywhere, and I feel like they had the same issue: overloading their purpose.
Backbone and AMD -- man, that was my jelly. I programmed apps, games, firmware, but something about Backbone and AMD on web dev really made me appreciate architecture and more wholistic thinking around language, tooling, and framework integration.
Also, moving from vim v emacs to grunt v gulp was probably the highlight of my two-tennies.
I was hoping to see more on Angular. I hated AngularJS (1), but I had to use it all over the place. I worked on Angular (2+) and it was ok. But React v AngularJS is important to React's history. AngularJS devs were hard core.
I worked at a 2018 startup that built everything in Angular 1.4.. Upgrading it, architecting around it ... really reenforced why react 'won' against AngularJS and even its younger chad brother, Angular.
I agree that seeing JSX and stuff looks really nice right away.
That stuff is still all good.
12:16 Your best selfies are the TH-cam thumbnails!
@15:30 it was like video games from the 90s to the 2000s
I was using flash and not jquery, then went from flash to angular/react.
Now I’m migrating a backbone/handlebars app to react
That carpet slip legit had me dying
I remember those early frontend war days clearly. Cool times for sure!
Same here. jQuery was fantastic! Cross browser support was incredible.
That CMake analogy is so true. Vite is a game changer. What does that analogy make Webpack/Babel?
the analogy is that they are CMake but written in javascript...
CSS is probably why I never considered php a problem when you are using css everything that isn't css is a relief
back in 2015 when I was in a startup, they were using jquery I wanted react and the CEO said no, but today I would prefer to use jquery for mostly static sites and elm for mostly dynamic sites.
Holy shit I remember that video of the people falling on national tv here in Portugal xD
Getting ie6 to do anything you wanted it to do, you had to make the website twice
I built the whole app in knockout and bootstrap 3 years back😅
More people explaining how the experience was with jquery back when it was new pls.
jQuery is still amazing if you have to deal with a lot of dom traversal/manipulation on top of HTML.
You can find elements, change class, add attributes and attach event listeners all in the single expression.
Only problem is it's sheer size.
But you can get most of the jQuery just in 6kb by using cash-dom.
Where in Montana?!
Bozeman/Helena Dev here
Love your stuff
Grew up in billings,
spent 10 years in Boz (before it went crazy, lived out in four corners)
you are helena? I have a good friend there!
@@ThePrimeTimeagen I went to high school in Helena but have been in Bozeman otherwise since 2005, probably know some of the same people
@@ThePrimeTimeagen my parents still live in Helena and a good amount of the homies still live there. I was at MSU for 15 years 05-20 as a student then employee
When react was presented with the dev tools that allowed you to set a state, or go back to previous states in the browser, that’s where my balls dropped.
I cant even search tutorials for Prime UI framework and react using "Prime React" keyword.
My developer bf: Docker? I hardly know'er
when are you trying Elm ?
Not only was jQuery incredible, remember when we started to see developer tools like Firebug?
What about Angular?
Vue is view in french , just like Vite (veet) is speed
before jquery there was prototypejs and his sibling scriptaculous, i feel old
18:18 it's pronounced vite, not vite
How dare you coming here and talk to me like that
@@ThePrimeTimeagen it's for everyone's benefit :) I was curious what was the reason :)
It's all state management
From programming stream he changed to reacting on videos...
If you didn’t dev through the age of jquery it’s so hard for you to understand how much it changed the web.
jQuery is the Foundation for the js we know today 🔥
The audio of the video you’re watching it too low to hear relative to your mic
IMPORTANTE!
Thank ❤❤
3:25 true. JQuery was the best lib in the world back then. Good old times.
Really depends what one wanted to do. If you build website which is 80% static and you just need a calendar input - jquery solves this perfectly and is still better than React as it is intended to work on top of static html as opposed to react's approach where whole app must be a react tree. On other hand if you wanted to build big rich app, there was capable frameworks like Dojo toolkit.
Until people started to require it to do things that were just as easy to do in native javascript.
Redux blew my mind
I see your Yahoo and raise you SUN Microsystems
yes, they were certainly the og group.
bell > sun > yahoo
i wrote JQ yesterday
I built my first commercial app in Backbone. It was terrible
Commentin to put some respect on Yahoo!
Web dev with jquery back in day was easier than webdev with immense frameworks now
When React just came out there was Angular 1.0 and problems React promised to solve was not solved. So yeah, React was not pleasant experience at first. Specially if you know how to do the same with Angular 1.0.
26:20 I uploaded that clip to my channel! I wonder why he gave that reaction though...
vietnam memories
@@luisprado1539 lol
JQuery made animations a lot easier for me, good days
To understand how important jQuery was, give it a google to see the API compatibility accross browsers before 2007, or just try to write a Generic HTTP request in JS compatible with all different browser APIs, support for IE < 11 and using only the ECMA < 3 version. people should be obliged to do it before writting "Modern Frontend", the tons of shitty code generated by developers that just start with this modern Frames are awfull as f*ck
people just don't know
I hate JSX, the first time I used React I found a library that gave you better js functions to use react and avoided JSX and I could interact with React in the browser.
This video happened because of Dev saying "Meh" LMAO
"dirty-checking the model"... "which is expensive"... the less I know the better!!
I love React
Lol. I thought the creator of jquery was Jake weary 😅
Angular❤
No fucking way, do front end web people really have to deal with CMake?
01:45 we still don't love react
React???? I clicked this expecting the story of the greatest code editor in modern history, Atom!
No love for Dreamweaver here eh? 🤣
jquery, Goat!
One global state cause to Single thread application.
"cmake" era of javascript - good
JSX - bad
I haven't thought about endo/exonyms since 5th grade so this useless video became interestingly intellectual!
jquery owned!
Hot take: AJAX IS FINE
You kind of like the Asmongold of coding but with a better hygiene and more hoddie. I would love to see you play WoW live btw.
Yeah, I dont understand the jquery hate
Adding a build time to something that does not need a build is just silly. I will never understand the logic behind React after React Native was removed from React. If React supported something other than just HTML5 then it would have a reason to exist.
React won because of our lord and savior JSX 🎉🎉
I feel like some old ass 60s cse research paper would make the new react or web dev tech
Php is better than JS, on every aspect. Ashamed to hear a senior dev like you say that it's horrible 😢
I liked vuejs first.
I Hate React, its a harder way to do Custom Components...
React has changed the world, and In my opinion, React killed PHP. Hook look like magic to me, and redux make state manager too hard, and zusland make it easy.
"React killed PHP"? They don't do the same thing... PHP is alive and well. Cant say the same for React once everyone starts learning about Svelte.
@@clamhammer2463 The biggest advantage of php is its fast development speed. React makes front-end development faster. React+java (or other back-end languages) and php have the same speed and provide stronger services at the same time, so the space of php is squeezed out.
🤣
@@wda6123 The biggest advantage of php is its fast development speed. React makes front-end development faster. React+java (or other back-end languages) and php have the same speed and provide stronger services at the same time, so the space of php is squeezed out.
WTF AJAX and vanilla JS was the shit.... I hate Jquery, it's so slow, you guys never had to do SEO huh...
I hate nextjs. Truly awful.
Please Schrodinger's stop
Jquery is the dog, would use it any day compared to react :)
Please stop
this is the side channel, go a head, don't watch. unsubscribe. mute the channel. do whatever you want.
@@ThePrimeTimeagen just joking around with the other comment, love your videos :)
2023 fad is to create frameworks that it's name doesn't sound like it writes.. Deno, Vite, Zustand.. Really annoying
How does jsx relate to cmake?
Bro I used to write JS for IE6 and remember having quirksmode website open and those crockford douglas js tutorials on yahoo videos website :orgasm: