Who lied more? Soldiers vs. Generals
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.พ. 2020
- Lukas (Patreon supporter) asked: "We heard you talking about how Generals remember the war, what about the regular soldiers? Are they biased less/more? In the end, they were sent off to fight and die."
In this video Dr. Roman Töppel will answer the question of who lied more about the German generals and soldiers. Additionally, he will provide some insights in their motivations and further context.
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Song: Ethan Meixsell - Demilitarized Zone
#WhoLiedMore #Generals #Soldiers
Für alle die Deutsch sprechen bzw. hören, am 5. September findet die Achtung Panzer Konferenz 2020 in Ingolstadt statt, mit dabei sind Dr. Roman Töppel und Ralf Raths (Direktor vom Panzermuseum Munster) für mehr Infos siehe hier: www.startnext.com/CZb
A bit too far ... cause being close to Munster means a long journey to Ingolstadt.
But great idea.
I'd really like you and Dr. Töppel respond to TIK's thesis that Hitler was a leftie and a socialist.
@@robertohlen4980 I doubt that it is their area of expertise since it is not TIK's thesis at all and TIK draw a lot of half truths from Hayek and Austrian School of Economics. Just like generals, after the war those right wing intellectuals tried to put an "intellectual" blame on the "God Damn Commies". Afterall Hitler was bad because he was Socialist, Commie or whatever and this went well with the post-war anti commie rhetoric. They have to be rather corrected by a good Historian of Economic Thought and Political Scientist not military historians.
I like TIKs work and his emphasis on Economics, Logistics etc. I also believe Capitalism is superior to Socialism. But TIK is clearly out of his depth in Political Science and Economic Thought in representing half truths as fact and ignoring a lot of other facts.
@@gursugursakal5601 It's pants on head stupidity is what it is.
Military History not Visualized das ist großartig!
Obviously the Panzers did. They even made a song about it called "Panzerlied".
Pro tip: Do not look in the comment sections under Panzerlied videos.
EDIT: Or do, if you can tolerate braindead wehraboos.
@Mialisus Where did I write that? I like German tanks too.
Some of my best friends are German tanks.
Wow, a German pun... Here is your cookie...;)))
LOL you win the internet today dude :)
@Mialisus I keep them in my photo book.
"Guys I swear, I did actually hit that guy with .30 carbine and he kept moving! I totally didn't miss."
"It's this rifle, man, it just overheats and the bullets go everywhere! No, really, I could hit that Taliban any day of the week....no I'm not shaking, fuck off!"
well that or "entire operation was a text book success! (battle lost, 1 million dead)
Riflemen are the most full of shit about, their own gear..
When I was a kid in 80's an ancien combatant was invited to our school for anniversary of 09. Mai. 1945. What he said is still not shown in most movies. He told us real war was like that :
1) you see a tank passing in a distance,
Nothing happens
Nothing happens
.....
2) some soldiers marching
.... Empty time
....Empty time
3) company crosses Oder river (towards Berlin) , his more horrible expérience:
Dead bodies of soldiers and civilians flow on the river surface with the direction of the river current,
4) his truck is hit by little caliber arms shot by German soldiers, he and his camerades shot wit the sub machine guns towards the bushes and find later three Wehrmacht soldiers with heads literally cut by bullets...
For info he was in Polish Army formed in the East by Soviets and thought with Soviet Army against Nazi Germany between 1944 - 1945
Huh?
The French is bleeding in a lot, but damn good English nonetheless
When ever I read a book that has soldiers as main characters it easy to see if the author has had any actual military experience. Namely if the characters main concerns are 1) sleep, 2) food.
Dont forget boredom.
@@azoniarnl3362 Oh, yes, absolutely. The most realistic part of the movie "Das Boot" was when the bored sailors talk about tying up nose hair to the hairs in their asses xD. Bored minds come up with very stupid ideas. At least in my experience.
Boredom is usually number 1. If you want sleep then you were either bad at dodging work or accidentally volunteers for all the bullshit
@@murtumaton from terminal lance. The natural progression of boredom in the Marines is apparently
1. Discussing activities they’ll do at home
2. Singing out loud
3. Setting fire to the pubes
In that order
Memory is very fallable. Years ago a car accident happened right next to me. I surprised myself when I realized that even five minutes later, I wasn't sure of the color of the car that was hit.
In high school we had a deputy come into class without warning and slap our teacher across the face, saying something like 'she was fifteen you bastard' snd stalking out. The teacher made us all write a statement because he wanted to press charges...
The whole thing was a setup, of course. We all read out our statements, then watched it on video from a hidden camera. Not one of the twenty five or so of us was right in everything we wrote down, let alone answering questions about it.
It's common to not remember something like the color of a car. But worse, it's common to remember the color of the car _incorrectly._ So many eyewitnesses are _sure_ about what they saw, with often very poor accuracy.
Yah there's a show in Canada called The Nature of Things. They did a fake bank robbery and nobody that thought it was real mentioned the bank robber was dressed in a kilt lol. At least that's what I remember from the show.
@@vonskyme9133 Yeah... Setup! Totally normal. Of course.
WTF!?
@@vonskyme9133 This teacher needs to get a raise. Looks like he realy tought you guys about live. You can't trust anyone not even your memory!
Love your chats with Dr Töppel: there's lots of chemistry between you two, and it's a pleasure to listen to you talk!
Lying or not remembering right in a high age is a different game ...
A general age 50 writing his memoirs in 1950 is a different thing than being a soldier age 20 writing at age 90 about the war 70 years ago in 2015 ...
Can remember Dr. Töppel talking about interviews about Prohaska battle and an interviewed soldier telling that a specific tank type that should have participated in that particular battle that was not there cause it was introduced later.
Was it a tiger, panther, ... I do not remember ...
I can remember during tank driving school that I felt asleep in the tank after I had driven and another was driving. That was real tank driver school, no simulator ... but pure gasoline burning for safe full stops ... or in rough grounds. Back in the 80ies at cold wars peak
Thats the point, you cannot be sure. You remember that you fell asleep while another drove, but that might not be what happened, you have no way of knowing apart from your imperfect memory. That your memory is crystal clear does not mean its true. I remembered very clearly an event that occurred to me and a friend. A number of years later, I was talking about this event with him, and I realised we both remembered the event from the same perspective. What I thought happened to me, was what he remembered happening to him, and vice versa. Both our memories were clear, but 1 of us was totally wrong, perhaps both were wrong.
We go to bed and I'm asleep in 5 minutes. My wife asked me how I do that. If I show her how to do it I would be arrested for abusing her. After sleeping under the flight deck of a carrier, I can sleep anywhere.
I sleep better with noise and ruckus. I study better too. It's comforting and reassuring. I hate silence.
The stress definitely fuckin KOs me really quick
Hours and hours of boredom followed by moments of sheer panic!
Most people who have seen the exciting bits really like the boring ones.
diaries written on spot > memoirs > interviews now(in my experience), even the first can be so inaccurate sometimes it makes no sense, they report T-34/85 as IS-2 or Shermans, schützenpanzers as actual panzers, Jagdpanzers as Panthers, 10 becomes 50, battallion becomes regiments, dates are mixed up and so, and thats just the unintentional part, understandibly, afterall they were soldiers, not historians
also there are ranks inbetween the general and their soldiers, company commanders and below sometimes give very interesting/accurate details of what happened
It's a well-known scene throughout military history: at any time outside of battles, there are soldiers sleeping soundly in the most uncomfortable conditions.
Memories of Heavy Metal concerts are notoriously hard to access on account of beer.
I don't drink alcohol.
Military History not Visualized People are always thinking everyone drinks alcohol it gets to me sometimes. The jokes people make about are getting old too...
@@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized How is it a bearded austrian man like yourself doesn't drink? I mean I don't drink but I'm a pussy
I also din't drank when I went to Iron Maiden concerts way way back in the 1980's, but for the rest of the time I've drank my fair share.
@@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized Dopamine and adrenaline rushes during intense and dramatic moments are as strong a drug on the brain as alcohol.
You're looking yoked, my dude! Always nice to have Dr. T weighing in. He brings a lot to these videos. I feel like because of YT content like this, learning about military history is 1000x easier than it ever was before. Definitely making great use of this medium, sirs!
Somewhat tangential to the topic, but here is an interesting thought: lying or not, first-person military history is overwhelmingly skewed towards officers in general (and in many specific services/countries). Officers (including generals) have always come from social classes with better access to education and publication, so even if you leave audience interest or indeed content out of the equation - officers always had a better chance of being literate enough to write memoirs, and well-connected enough to have them published.
Another interesting note on burden and cost: it was not always evenly distributed. The Kriegsmarine's U-boat arm is a particularly interesting case: we all know the "30,000 of the 40,000 who served on U-boats were dead by the end of the war" - but what's often mentioned less is how unequally this 3/4 casualty rate was distributed. In reality, the fatality rate for officers was more the opposite - and though still a high loss rate in any other circumstance, the loss rate among u-boat commanders is actually more like 3/4 of them survived the war (thanks to the limited number of patrols, reassignment, and tendency to move them to staff jobs after some time). Even without what I mentioned in that first point I made - U-boat officers have ended up being over-represented in the historiography.
Conversely, the fatality rate affected one group of U-boat men much worse than average - the professional NCOs (I believe "Unteroffiziere" is the German term). These were the professionals, the nautical specialists and experienced machinists - the "lifers" of the service whose loss during the war was irreplaceable (because their skills were built over years). They may have occasionally moved between boats - but unlike officers, they did not often get assigned to shore duty and did not have a patrol limit.
Last I checked, the casualty rate for these professional NCOs was something like 90%. Their role on U-boats was absolutely vital - but so few of them survived, especially compared to officers, that we have very little of their perspective surviving.
(PS - funny, just as I finished writing this, you got into that Das Boot discussion :D )
A moment of international solidarity, we used to call the L86 LSW the "Lots of Sleep Weapon"
The automatically generated subtitles are Dutch. I guess we dutch people really do sound like germans speaking english ;_;
We do indeed!
While eating lasagna
I am reading and enjoying your book on Kursk Dr. Toppel .
I enjoyed hearing your "boring" war stories, I'd like to hear more about your time in the german and austrian army!
An acquaintance of my dad was always telling different war tales. Dad challenged him about the large number of different tales that couldn't all have happened to one man. He admitted he had told his own stories and repeated the stories of others so often he could no longer differentiated between them. Dad also read a book by a fellow POW. Dad agreed with the incidence happening but disagreed with the time line. Some happening before the writes arrival. Dad, AA gun crew, said you had no idea what was happening on another gun sight let alone anything within half a mile. You only found about those things later.
Very good video. Best guest.
There was a writer, broadcaster, comedian called Spike Milligan who wrote his memories of the war he was a gunner also probably the best books written from an ordinary soldier that I have seen.
Have a cookie 🍪
Peter Flisher spike Milligan’s wartime books are simultaneously the funniest and most shocking accounts of the war I’ve read. Roald Dahl’s are incredible too.
@@matthayward7889 Both genius writers I would agree Spike has the added dimension of capturing the ordinary British soldier's singular humour
The Goon show . . funny Brit buggers
@@benwinter2420 Yes thats right he wrote that and many other things a comic genius who used all of his talents writing his war memoirs
Great discussion! I saw 1917 last night and it was interesting how 1 soldier asked another about a battle and he said "I don't remember " I'm sure it was partly not wanting to remember and a lot of truth. It was just another day to him. Sometimes you don't realize the significance of what's going on so you don't retain a lasting memory.
If generals told more lies, it's probably because they were asked more questions.
Why ? you calling all soldiers liars , are you ? or you just calling German soldiers liars ? Or just Germans ? What is it ?
@@andrewwoodhead3141 I guess I'd call ~all people liars. I meant, generals and soldiers probably lie with about the same frequency - if not about the same things. But we hear a lot from generals and politicians, and not so much from soldiers and citizens. Generals get interrogated, write memoirs, appear as characters in Hollywood, etc.. So they get more chances to lie, and especially to have their lies remembered as truths.
@@bozo5632 For me calling someone a liar is a big deal and you'd better be able to back that up with proof. I'm not suggesting that politicians and generals ect don't lie, but if you follow the arguments put forth in this video through to their logical conclusion then you reach a point whereby your starting point approaching any account is to assume that it is a pack of self serving lies. And, note, the use of the word lie,.. LIE
I'll make myself clear. You say that you'd guess that you'd call all people liars,.. I say go fuck yourself. You might go through your life so lost in your own bullshit you don't know what the truth is anymore, that's your problem, don't assume the same of everyone.
@@andrewwoodhead3141 Oh my.
@@bozo5632 There are those who take accusations of dishonesty lightly, and those who do not.
THIS WAS GREAT. HELLA DEEP.
I really love these rather casual conversations with Roman Töppel and also those with David Wiley at Bovington and others. The feeling reminds me of times I was able to sit with professors I respected and learn from them outside of the more formal classroom. They're very natural and well done by Bernard I think. And I love how he genuinely wants to learn and shares them.
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You hit the nail on the head. Iraq was 23 hours a day of UTTER boredom, followed by 1 hour a day of terrifying, deadly action.
great video
The best interviewee ever.
Greetings from Atlanta MHV
I think comparing memoirs from German officers with two very different ranks and jobs could be interesting. Take Oberst Hans von Luck's memoir (tilted 'Panzer Commander') as an example. Most of his account covered North Africa, although he also fought in the Battle of France and Operation Barbarossa. He then fought in the Western Front throughout much of 1944 until returning to the Eastern Front only to end up in Soviet captivity just shy of the German capitulation. The rest of his memoir delved into life as a POW, then as a civilian in BRD after his release.
If you compare Hans von Luck's memoir with memoirs from higher-ups like Manstein, the former's underlying theme feels less political. Since he spent most of his time in charge of a motorized recon unit, he was in closer contact with his soldiers as well as civilians. The fact that he also lived under Soviet captivity for several years meant he had a more in-depth view of the Soviet soldiers and civilians than most of higher ranking officers. (Also, he was fluent in Russian. This helped out considerably under the Soviet captivity.) This goes out to show that context is very important, particularly how different experiences lead to different attitudes and worldview.
a lack of sleep is also something that hits the maritime industry I have similar stories of being on the verge of passing out at various times through out the day doing mundane tasks
As Sgt. Schultz would say, *"I KNOW NOTHING!"*
The best part was about lack of sleep.
I find it supremely ironic that a video about the fallability of memoirs seamlessly transitions into and closes with your own memoirs of national service.
I really liked this episode where it was more about Roman and the interviewer hanging out
Great point on the sleep deprivation from Dr Töppel!
I used to be able to fall asleep anywhere, on a bus, a tain, even on the tube in London. All these years later I still make people laugh with where I doze off.
I think that often the common soldier didn't lie so much as mis-remember. Keep in mind that while under fire their systems were flooded with adrenaline and that often corrupts memory and can easily just not know the facts correctly.
Is it not ironic that this professional class, largely defined by courage, should display such cowardice? Turns out facing down death is easier than facing down the truth or the censure of one's peers.
Unironically yes
Death is simpler to deal with
"Visions From A Foxhole" by William Foley, complete with his contemporary sketches, is the best memoirs of a private (dogface) soldier I have ever read. It really captures the hopelessness and powerlessness if a soldier swept up in a massive conflict. Donald Burgette, 101 AB, books are very good too. These books are very human.
I did national service for 18 months when I was young. It really thought me to be able to fall asleep quickly and with little regard to what was going on around me.
"Thin red line" - the book described quite well soldiers' everyday
You should link old luftchat videos from Bismarck "WW2 Memoirs and what to remember when reading them" and "Memoirs, Galland and the "Sins" of Memory"
Hmmm...I see someone has been working out
Arh entering ambush position, Pointing the L1A1 in the right direction, Hold Rifle tight and fall asleep.
I met Dr. Töppel a few days ago at the war museum in Overloon, really nice guy! Looking forward to meeting him again and hopefully you as well. Will you be coming to militracks this year?
excellent, it was actually planned that I accompany him, but I had to cancel due to time restrictions.
I was last year at Militracks, but I don't think I will return any time soon.
Bernhard, did you know you've been namechecked in Forbes magazine this week?
What did they write about him?
@@Arbiter099 They mention MHV as one of the new breed of TH-cam historians. There's no interview or anything, but they do link to his channel.
The History Guy just posted a link to the article a few hours ago, if you want to check it out 😀
@@RonGardener4142 MHV, Indy, Forgotten Weapons, THG, TGW, C&Rsenal, Bismarck, Mark Felton those are the modern faces of history to me
@@Arbiter099 also Draschinfel, Lindybeige and Chieftain. (Or however they are written)
Lancero Paraca Drachinifel :-)
Is that the Hotel Stadt Münster furiniture i am spotting there ? :)
no
or maybe the furniture is the same, but this was not in Münster.
16:00 that is a problem definitely, no sleep
Again, a desperate attempt to get a question through by a long time fan, but not a Patreon. ( am a student)
From the point of view of Germany post-Stalingrad-Kursk, what viable strategy(s) may have been viable to prolong and protract the situation on the Eastern Front? or conversely, why did the front crumble so dramatically after '43? ( yes I am familiar with Hitler's stand fast, every city is a Kessel, and the lack of fuel etc). Vielen Dank.
Kiowhattaisthetruth C s
Lack of supplies, lack of German troops for proper front coverage. Weakness of Germany's allies. 43,44 most soviet breakthroughs were in foreign troop fronts. German troops were sucked into Italy, and on the western front for the allied invasion threat. End of 44,45 German troops less trained, less supplied, lower quality. The soviets could just steam roll most German forces by then. ( numeral advantage). In 41-42 the German supply mechanised, truck were being destroyed and Germany couldn't make up the losses. The battle of Alamein is the example of how the Germans were beaten by the Soviets but in a much larger scale. Compare the desert war to The eastern front. Same thing. Just Russia was much larger
One last thing . A German line wasn't blown open until the German artillery was destroyed or disrupted
I agree , Thank you .
I would say: Up the Irons!
I've only read '' A Stranger to Myself '' - Willy Peter Reese. I think it's VERY honest.
A fundamental concept of how thought is done is that humans essentially have two brains (we're going to ignore the hind-brain, subconscious and so on here).
The first brain you have and by far the most dominant is The Automatic Mind.
The Automatic Mind controls nearly everything you do and is involved in whatever you don't need to analyse. It controls your walking without having to thinking, your innate survival reflexes in hostile situations, how to drive a vehicle after you've 'mastered' its controls but more importantly it controls your reflexive thoughts on nearly everything. This is how you can drive to a location you've been to many times before and suddenly realise that you have no memory of getting there.
A side effect here is this his how propaganda works; in the automatic mind. Layers of belief are subtly laid down that become the bedrock of your beliefs. Using that as an illustration you can see that these beliefs are un-reviewed, they are literally the bedrock of our worldview.
We accumulate data in The Automatic Mind through experiences and information we receive. However The Automatic Mind, as a survival mechanism, is very reluctant to change its data. Obviously what you've adopted as a strategy before has kept you living to this point so innovation may well be dangerous (this is why some people react with anger when you challenge deeply held views).
Regarding the video a participant of a conflict is spending a large amount of surviving and this is all done with The Automatic Mind. The other amount of time is spent with tedium and generally being uncomfortable and this is also the province of the Automatic Mind. So participants accrue beliefs of the situation and how it happen largely without thinking on them.
The other brain you have is the The Analytical or Cognitive Mind.
This is the problem solving system you have and in fact plays a tiny part of your life. It is extremely reluctant to engage and must be trained to try and overcome The Automatic Mind's dominance. This is the part of thinking where you analyse the situation and create new solutions. Make no mistake, both you and I barely use this function in our lives.
In the context of the video it is this function that is able to analyse the situations the individual experiences or is informed of and create a holistic view of the events. Once these are made they are then laid down in The Automatic Mind's storehouse of beliefs, note that the propaganda mentioned earlier attempts to bypass the process and is often successful and substitutes its own beliefs with one the individual might otherwise come to.
Participants in conflicts, both military and civilians, create this inflexible belief system laid down by many inputs. It is a truism that soldiers are lied to just as much, if not more, than civilians are. These form bedrock beliefs that are difficult to overcome unless they are identified, reviewed with The Analytical Mind and even then the first thought a person has on reviewing them is the original, unmodified belief immediately followed by its update (which even then may or may not be accurate).
Memoirs are a mix of these two thought processes.
What a fat crock of social sciences bullshit, invented by hipsters without any scientific backing. Bye.
@@m2heavyindustries378 ^this man has only the automatic mind
Its not just Das Heer, look at Gen. Mark Clark, the Conqueror of Rome, but on June 5 1944. He was a rather good example of wasting lives for his own ego, not a war criminal but not far from one.
Spike Milligan was accused by the critic Clive James of exaggerating in one volume of his war memoirs. Spike pointed out in the next volume that what was recorded in the criticised volume was correct and that he had check the diaries of others in his unit (56th (Heavy) RA) and the unit's records.
reminds me of reading Guy Sajer's Forgotten Soldier, and he's talking about "Alpenberg tanks" or "7.7cm artillery" or place names that I try to look up and have no idea where he's talking about in comparison to the GrossDeutschland's action reports.
Feels like at the time he knew what he was refering to but things got lost in translation, partially to actual translation of the book to English, partially because at the time his German of his service in 43 wasn't great. Partially because as the loader for an mg section, do you really need to know what that tank is actually called? Do you really need to know what caliber that infantrygun is?
throw in things like placenames changing between Tsarist WW1 era and Soviet era and the Germans having old maps or relying on captured maps.
I mean, as a landser, do you need to know the name of this muddy town on the steppes that looks like so many others? you have to attack it or defend it. That's about as far as you care for it, you're more interested in shelter, food that will help ease your diarrhea or help clog you up a bit, or just food in general. Is my fighting position okay? Who do I have to share it with?
etc etc etc.
I remember reading some really bitter arguments about that book on, I think, Feldgrau. Some people were saying it was mostly or all made up. I think he remembered some very basic things wrongly, like the position of a unit marking on his sleeve. So after reading the discussion on Feldgrau I went and read the book. It was one of the main books that changed the way I read war history. I guess I was mature enough finally to be able to empathize with the utter horror of what he went through and the ambiguity of it all. He didn't mind admitting that he failed in the one time he was put in command. I have to admit I found him annoying at times, even though I have no right to judge him given what he went through. Perhaps that's why some people didn't like the book. He wasn't their ideal of a tough, no-compromise, dedicated anti-communist soldier or whatever story they are writing for themselves in their own head to justify why WW2 German soldiers should be fighting. Very different, from for example, Rudel: "Only he is lost who gives himself up for lost" and all that stuff.
yeah, Sajer was most assuredly not a Rudel type. Though I vaguely remember a Prussian guy within Sajer's secion, whose name escapes me atm, who didn't think much of Sajer and who would have been right up there with Rudel's outlook. Most of the guys around Sajer weren't Rudel types either.
Sajer very much admits he was just a guy, in the shit, trying to survive.
I can sympathise to an extent with any detractors who are picking out these inconsistancies, but then again, I was in the Air Training Corps, the RAF cadets. We did a whole bunch of outward bound, survival stuff, self defence, camping out in the Highlands for a week sorta things.
But 20 years later I don't remember any of the details of prepping a fieldstove, setting up a sheltered position for your tent, or how to navigate by the stars.
Hell, I went on a marksmanship course, and several flying courses, even jump out the back of a Chinook for parachuting. But I can't tell you what firing range, or the air station/airbase we did that stuff at.
I remember the experiences, a few of the people real well.
But where that all happened precisely?
Not a clue.
can barely even remember if our squadron was 53F, 58F or 85F.
Was all important at the time, but a lot of the little stuff will pass you by after enough time.
I believe the author had his hands on some soldier's memoir and rearranged some things to expand on the story. I don't believe it would be possible to recall the details of specific conversations and situations verbatim. He never mentions himself sitting down to write. It reads less like a collection of stories than it does a scripted novel. There are just too many fantastical elements of the book. It becomes something like, "oh of course he was there, that battle, he had a bit on this aspect that historians conveniently also wonder about, and that topic, and that infamous battle..." That's my impression. There are many things that others have already pointed out about the book.
This is legit a more profound video than the title would suggest to an outsider. I don't know how to act upon this, or suggest so, but yeah. Yeah.
I was severely disabused of all my treasured romantic notions about war and combat: war is about 99% FATIGUE, BOREDOM, FEAR and SADNESS punctuated by short periods of incredible urgency, adrenaline and hard physical labor.....followed by severe letdown after the action is over and the adrenaline subsides. Then the FATIGUE, BOREDOM, FEAR and SADNESS return and are even worse than before the SHTF......VietNam 1968-1969. Truly, it was totally different than the Hollywood/John Wayne BS I had taught myself to believe and accept. My father and several other WW2 veterans tried to explain to me what it would really be like.....they failed because words fail to truly describe what war is and what it is really like. When you try to describe it, the only ones who understand what you are saying are the ones who also experienced it.....and they need no explanation or description.....and that is one reason why veterans of any army and any war almost never want to talk about it. War sucks so you don't talk about it and you don't think about it unless you can't stop yourself from thinking about it. Whoever talks about it is probably a phony jock-sniffer.....or maybe some kind of criminal......rgds, fm
Prior to watching, I would have to argue that it's soldiers who lied more. There are more of them.
Zu schade, dass das Video so wenige Clicks bekommen hat.
jo
I am curious if you would consider people with certain kinds of OCD which makes them not susceptible to most of the things you mentioned here reliable sources. I am a small subset of people with the disorder whos memories don't fade over time and the flushing of memories does not take place nearly as much as normal people. Once I get something in long term memory it stays forever and never fades. Even mediocre everyday things stay in there like going potty as a toddler or sitting in the backyard with your grandfather who passed away when you were very young. Any memory I have from age 3 onward is a clear and unchanged as the day I made it. I do not remember everything but there is a clear distinction between things I am not sure of and things I am 100% sure of in memory. Countless times my memories have been corroborated with real life data. It might be hard to find a veteran with this kind of memory but if you could it might be a good starting point get some very detailed accounts.
One public figure who has this type of memory is Dan for the TH-cam channel Game Grumps.
You see the same sort of thing in Allied memoirs too, of course. William Slim and Lucian Truscott admitted mistakes, but many of their colleagues didn't. I am reading works by several low-ranking American veterans, and it's clear that they don't always square with contemporary records and reports.
It's weird how much trouble auto captions have with German accents. It's not rare, you would think it would be readable
Please do a Das Boot video! There is so little information out there about U-boats, but I think they had the most interesting job. Poor souls...
I did one on the Das Boot: th-cam.com/video/23apxc51Tt0/w-d-xo.html
and also several on submarine warfare: th-cam.com/video/_WtFyl98SlM/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/La6BM3HnU98/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for your response! I believe I have seen the second video you listed, but the algorithm hadn’t led me to the one on Das Boot yet. Awesome. It is such a pleasure to listen to you speak on these subjects.
I think the copious amounts of alcohol is why you forget heavy metal concerts xD
William Henry "Bill" Mauldin was an American editorial cartoonist who won two Pulitzer Prizes for his work. A true portrait of combat and those who fought in war ...... Cartoons online.
www.britannica.com/biography/Bill-Mauldin
Ernie Pyle
www.thoughtco.com/famous-americans-killed-world-war-ii-105521
Bill Mauldin's "Joe and Willie" had something to say about that.
Willie (to Joe): "You’ll get over it, Joe. Oncet I wuz gonna write a book exposin’ the army after th’ war myself."
gijoe2003.tripod.com/id26.html
⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
I've read that there is no record of Fallschirmjagers executing prisoners ( I think they mean only west front).. I don't know if true.. but one of Hitler's Fuhrer Befels... was to execute captured Paratroopers...What did the Fallschirmjagers think of this?
Look ay the commandments of the Fallschirmjaeger
No soldier will ever lie as much as politicians. I also believe that different political and social environment will change greatly HOW a story will be told and slightly altered (depending on character strength of the person).
We had a friend of the family that fought for the germans in the war and he wrote his memorials. When I read them as a kid I found one importent area where he maybe lied. He wrote that I didn't know anything about the holocaust until the american soldiers that captured him late in the war told him about it. Maybe you could make a video about the common soldiers perception of it? But I understand if it is a too sensitive subject.
Comment deleted.
It's okay to say the allies lied more, but if you list specifics, your comment will be deleted.
I fought off an Alien scouting party once with my M240B mounted on the Discovery but that was only once. This was in 1993. Couldn't eat because of our EVA helmets. Couldn't sleep because we didn't want to asphyxiate from a lack of air. We don't even breathe pure O2. It's a mix of Nitrogen, Oxygen, and CO2. 78/21/1 %
one side we have traitors, then we have the cowards
"she-Jäger", sound peculiar in English. Like a she-wolf, but more geared towards shotguns and Edelweiß...
Lebensgeschichte = Life story?
Could also be biography
In the context he means our personal narrative, an attempt to make sense of our life thus far.
IMO, any memoirs are not to be trusted, especially those of high ranking people on losing side and Soviet ones too (they got a lot to hide too, Putin just classified Soviet wartime archives until 2049).
What could be more or less OK source of information are wartime diaries, but even those got to be scrutinised, as people tend to show themselves in better light not just because they are afraid of punishment. You know, like what Instagram is today - we show and we write what we want to show.
Also, a soldier can write and talk about shortages, lack of rations etc, it's just how it was, for a general that would mean to admit a lack of organisation and order under his command. So that "oops, my soldiers lacked proper rations for several weeks" is not a thing really in memoirs.
Generals lie. Soldiers exaggerate.
best memoar i've read so far = with the old breed eugene sledge. maybe i'm a bit bias since im a former marine my self but that is the best i've read so far
it is generally recommended by academics and veterans alike from what I have seen/heard.
Reports from the front can be way off. Every tank looks like a tiger to a man with a riffle.
For logic both levels lied. But the lie of an official is heavier coz his level of responsibility and information is higher. An official can check and balance any soldier "story" and also have the opportunity to see real stats for check. Finally the officers have more incentives to lie coz them want to avoid responsibility and keep their high status careers and jobs.
The first casualty of war.
I would say generals had to lie to more people. Soldiers only had to lie to their superiors, Generals have to lie to their superiors, their soldiers, and to the public.
"Im Westen nichts Neues" - jahre-lang
Nobody expects
I don't know about soldiers lying less.Don't think that they would write about any really bad thing they did, and most german soldiers in east partipate in some way or another in war crimes or other nasty things
Ohh I know, I know...fighter pilots/ Kampffliegern. They exaggerate a lot in their memoirs. More than any general or infantryman. Did I win?
Lebensgeschichte Erzählungen would just be life’s story. You could translate it as biography, but life’s story is the common word.
The video, the comment section...just what the fuck 🤦♂️
Gotta turn volume up and it still sounds like your mumbling ..,,,
Goebells lied the most
More like part truths, a key piece to propaganda that no one seems to understand till this day. Which is to be expected by the Allies.
Not even many Allied generals (the "good guys") have a hard time admitting mistakes.
(The German army exist)
Winter: hipoty hopity your army is now my property.
NATO
Looks like motivated lying increases as you go up in rank...this might help explain our Dear Orange Leader?
Historians.
delete this video and redo it with a suit
Don't use Jodan Peterson quotes. TIK already turned into an annoying right wing person, don't you go down the same road.
@@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized Jordan leterson is not a very trustworthy academic, whatever his politics may be, I am afraid to say.
If you are interested i psychology I implore you to at least consider others as well.
@I need no channel youtube! Since you are the expert might I ask how he is not trustworthy?
@@ineednochannelyoutube5384 Your afraid to say? Is it because your afraid of being proven wrong?
And why did you assume that people that watch Peterson do not read comments that prove him wrong?
@@mitchellofcl183 I do not proport to be an expert. I merely know that numerous academics in his field consider his ideas to be poorly founded, and I have heared him discuss other fields which I am somewhat knowledgable about (namely, neurology), and he rather adamantly used outdated and disproven concepts (the analytical/creative hemisphear theory), which tells me that I cannot expect sufficient scientific rigor from him.
@@Paciat Get a better grasp of the English language before you go around insulting people for no reason.