The proud grandson of a Turnbull here. My grandma born Elizabeth Turnbull in 1912 South East Northumberland and have managed track my family back a good few generation.
I had the fortunate pleasure in the mid summer of 2003 to be traveling through this region and stumbled upon a wee celebration of the Lord of the March riding out to patrol the border. It was a very pleasant surprise and my first introduction into what life was like in the area during this period. So strong was this custom that it's portrayed annually unto this day.
Great video! I can’t wait for part 2! I’m a descendant of the Pringles, a reiving family that was allied to the Douglas clan. There is a lot of romanticization of the Reivers, but it was a time of brutal violence and difficult existence.
@ It is quite depressing to read all they lived through, and for hundreds of years at that. But they made for a very resilient people, and their names are known around the world (& even on the moon: Neil Armstrong).
@@GoBlueGirl78 Indeed. The Wardens and Keepers are gone, but the Riding Families survive. Here in south-east Kansas, my one county hosts 20+ Reiver surnames of long standing. We have been warriors, explorers and frontiersmen for centuries.
I'm a Geordie. My Mother was a Blenkinsop. I had a Grandmother called Veitch. These are Border surnames. Most of these Reiver Clans ended up settling on Tyneside and Wearside during the Industrial revolution. Reiver Clan surnames are very very common on Tyneside. Names like, Eliot, Bell, Graham, Charlton, Rutherford, Armstrong, Henderson etc.
I'm a Wilson, my Mam's family is Armstrongs and Jacksons I think I inherited something. Cos I've got a lot of muscle definition for a small woman, I raced bikes internationally keep ponies in the suburbs and was somewhat unappreciative of Lockdown 😅
Hail, cousin! My mother's family are Nixons with direct descent from Richard Nixon's ancestor. I've visited Liddesdale twice. My father was best friends with two of the Noble brothers and he married a Nixon. I took guitar lessons from an Armstrong. All in a county in south-east KANSAS (which, itself, was once a bloody 'border' region).
Hi, you didn't show all who took turns at the marches. I'm a Kerr & we were a Castle & Tower family. So much destroyed when Borderer's were cleared & the enemy took our land. The Highland Clearances were later on in time, the Border folk were the first Scottish clearance. Sadly very few know about this hidden history.
There is a lot of history and to do it all in a single episode doesn't really work often, I am happy to do another episode in the future, but did did mention four of the main players. I can agree that the lands were cleared and it did transform the region. Can I ask which 'enemy' are you refering too?
Lots do esp Americans who do know who and where their families came from , years ago Scottish TV did a few progs on the border families and there's quite a few vids on yt that are on location , east mid and west marches and a TV presenter who is an Armstrong , other Scottish tour vids that take you to these areas ,
Thank you for this informative and well put together video, I really enjoyed it and learned such a lot about the reivers! I come from the Trotters of the East March, it's fascinating to have this heritage ☺️
A good way to understand the Reivers is that it was an early version of the Wild West or like the later Hatfield-McCoy feud in the U.S. The Scottish Marches was a frontier without much law but with raids, feuds, murder, cattle rustling, outlaws and sheriffs. The clans involved also produced some famous descendants in the U.S.: Richard Nixon, Lyndon B. Johnson, Billy Graham and Neil Armstrong, for example.
I’m from the Appalachian region and am Hatfield kin. People here claim “Scot’s Irish” ancestry from time immemorial. I take it that’s descended from the border area? A lot of these names are common in the Appalachian region.
Neil Armstrong and his wife were given a big welcome in Langholm where my grandparents lived. There's a plaque there to commemorate his visit, and a new tartan was designed in his honour. There are videos on this platform of the visit. As kids we loved the "common riding" .
Fascinating first episode on this. Thank you! First learning about the border reivers as an adult brought back surnames from school here in the north-east of England (amazed we didn't learn about them there!) - surnames such as Graham, Charlton, Turnbull, Armstrong - and my uncle's middle name, Ridley.
Just discovered your channel, great content, very informative and entertaining. Im fascinated by history, and would love for you to do a video on the history of the Covenenters in my home area of Lanarkshire.
Hi Stuart, thank you, thats really kind of you to say. I will add your suggestion to the list; but I have to say that its as long as my arm and I am not a wee man, so please be patient with me!
I was always told my maiden name was Boarder Scottish. I'm a Geordie, but my name was named after a craft, Carver. Carpenters. I'm doing my tree on ancestry, we were from the Hebrides and futher down in Kirkaldy. We are from all over the world according to our genes. I love Berwick, it's my favourite place. Thankyou ✌️
Just found your channel, i've read Robert Low's account of the border reivers set in the Tudor times, a must read for folk interested the history of the debatable lands. Video was well put together.
I love your channel, and I’m excited to see more about the reivers…….many of these people eventually became the Scots-Irish with the advent of the northern Irish plantations, many who in turn emigrated to the American colonies, primarily to the South, Reiver culture almost mirrors exactly American Southern culture and eventually cowboy culture…..mainly because they were the same people; if ever given a chance, “Born Fighting: How the Scots Irish Shaped America” by Senator Jim Webb is an excellent read………keep up the good work Mr.Iles !
OK - the Debatable land was NOT Redesdale and Tynedale. The Debatable land was situated on the Scottish/English border between the English West March and the Scottish West March. The Debatable Lands extended from the Solway Firth near Carlisle to Langholm in Dumfries and Galloway, the largest population centre being Canonbie. It wasn't near Redesdale or Tynedale. Also, the stretch of the Reiver raids was larger than you claim.
I watched that back and realised that in needing to be succinct content has ended up on the cutting room floor. I appreciate that it isn't as clear as It could be and sorry if that took away from your enjoyment.
Medford/Mitford Family: Wardens of The March Crazy to think that simply by virtue of our last names we'd have been slaughtering one another a few hundred years ago.
@@jamesarmstrong5424 my Mam was an Armstrong. her Dad was a Northumbrian but my Granny grew up near Boston Lincolnshire. We were raised in Middlesbrough, an industrial town. My Grandpa Wilson was also a Northumbrian.. The south of England never acknowledged what the owe the industrial North, and they've found it hard to push us around recently
My grandparents had a farm by Canonbie. My father walked to Canonbie school from there. They retired to Langholm and were there when Neil Armstrong visited. If you have not yet watch it there's an interesting documentary - Born Fighting. Two parts. -about the Scots Irish and their travails which led to a lot of the clan folks moving to Ireland.
@@AlexIlesUKMy Grandfather was a Scottish Armstrong, on my mother's side. Looking forward to your watching video on the Armstrongs. Also I have a tartan Armstrong scarf I wear regularly . 💙
My family were also known as border reivers who have their tartan, heraldic shield and family motto all assented to by Robert The Bruce personally for services undertaken for him before and during the Scottish war of independence. Additionally my family had been accused of the odd act of cannibalism in their struggles. My family moved to Aus from Northern Island during the potato famine and the moved from Scotland to Northern Island during the religious wars, (catholic Vs Protestant). Originally we were Celts.
I have a feeling we will be seeing a bit of the old Reiver spirit again if the UK continues to behave badly. Letting old folks freeze in an island of coal never ends well. Happy Spring!
I don't remember the Clan but was it the Grahams described as "Scottish by birth but English by inclination"? I remember reading that this era saw the creation of the term "Hot Trod" meaning that if Raiders came across the Border, they could be pursued back across legally if done promptly. Giving us "Hot Rod" and how we use it today. This era was much akin to the Border Feuds here in America prior to the Civil War.
Very good. I know there’s a lot to discuss regarding the reivers. Something not discussed much is the marriages of families into other families on each side. I’m a Musgrave/Young descendant and the Musgrave married into the Armstrong’s and had times of peace and hate with the Dacres. Those border alliances still held strong after moving to America. They literally continued from the revolution up through the American civil war. My great grandparents held onto generational dislikes of certain family names & youbdidnt marry into certain families although the dislikes started in the borders hundreds of years ago. Those family clans literally continued on in America and many moved with each other
Hi Alex, if you haven't done already can you do a piece on the Scottish Border Gypsies and how they took advantage of border culture for survival? I find it absolutely fascinating how they adapted to the local way of life and how their descendants remain in the region today.
Hi Gavin, I will add it to the list, I have a long list of thing to research and read so I can't promise it will be anytime soon but I will look into it. I did see this article lately that may answer some of your questions: www.scotsman.com/heritage-and-retro/heritage/scotlands-lost-gypsy-kings-and-queens-and-the-borders-palace-of-the-other-royal-family-1407968
I think what you called the debatable land is actually the English Middle March. The debatable land was further west and was eventually split between England and Scotland along the Scotsdyke.
My mother's family are Nixons from Liddesdale, the "Bloodiest Vale in Britain". They rode with the Nobles and Armstrongs. I've visited the Borders thrice and Liddesdale twice.
I was in England a few years ago to hike the Hadrian's wall path. I stayed for a night or so in Haltwhistle and toured several nearby Bastles. Very interesting.
Scott, Henderson and Redpath are three Reiver names in my family. The Redpaths were still keeping sheep or fighting as soldiers until my generation. There's a reason why Northumberland and Cumbria are the most scarcely populated counties of England. They're beautiful now, but I wouldn't have wanted to live here back then. Horrendous!
A Blake fella ranger here. Before you killed us or sent us away as convicts to America or Australia, we had holdings from Gallway, ireland, across that border, through gaul over to the Black lake, our home, now a sea, up under the Caucus mountains, iran to india... We had iyher families with us, protecting the gates to hades and hella.
It does look like the border existed since the Bronze Age. Google for maps of discoveries of copper axes being isotopes associated with Welsh copper. It’s quite reminiscent of the border between Britannia and Alba.
There's no bronze age Borders in that area that we can tell, but the Romans create a border that might be recognised. As for Britannia and Alba, that's two different eras
@@ste2442 Thank you very much. Working hard to grow it and really enjoying chatting to everyone in the comments. For every 'um acctually' or 'I kNoW wHeRe ArTHur is' there's a hundred of you fantastic folk!
9:09 “... there's not much difference between an English or a Scottish sheep or cow and it's a fantastic way to combine business and pleasure...” Lool, spoken like a true Welshman :D Sorry, I'm Manx so shouldn't be throwing stones... ;P
Haha :D I dunno who I'm descended from, so probably peasants, therefore it's none of my business if I've got any sense, what you gents get up to in the night! :D Great video(s) and channel BTW, really enjoy your stuff, thanks, and thanks for the reply too :)
@@AlexIlesUK Aw, you know I just might! They've took all of the romance out of it these days with the ear-piercing scanners and security operatives in most places. :D Thank you for the awesome videos, please keep 'em coming :)
@@AlexIlesUK My Dad's (matriarchal) cousin stole a cow in Ireland, transported it to Scotland, sold it and then came to hide out with my family in England for three months before he was caught. Classic 'Reiver' behaviour, bringing decent families into disrepute. 6' 4" of stupid and yes he had a borders name - Carr My Dad always used to say, we're related by marriage, not by blood 😊😁😆
My ancestors were the Dunbars, they literally changed sides at a whim but that meant the majority survived, although my string of the family went south after De Brus took power and staying loyal to the ancient Dunkeld dynasty became too dangerous.
I loved this video. I’m part of the Douglas clan on my mother’s side. A direct descendant of Sir James “the Black” Douglas. I’m ready to watch the next one.
Yeah… sorry to break the news to you. But you’re not a direct descendant on the black Douglass. The Black Douglas lineage ended after the defeat of the 9th Earl of Douglas in battle.
Please don't worry, I had someone tell me once they were a direct descendant of Joan of Arc, I pointed out that she died a virgin. It's your family heritage and I appreciate you sharing it here.
My Grandpa Carithers would say, with a smile that in hindsight was more of a smirk, when asked about our Scottish ancestors "they rode stolen horses to steal more horses, and any convenient cattle nearby for the Bruce. They kept their share, of course.." 😏👍😁
It sounds horrible for the folks living there. The constant harrying though meant that no major cities could be established. This helped to preserve Hadrian's wall and forts from the stone being repurposed and Roman fortifications destroyed.
I'm a burn, my family was from east Teviotdale on the border, we were known for highly violent reprisals, reiver is in our blood, been to prison 7 times for fighting drunk because of impulse control issues due to adhd 😅, plus I'm pretty good on a horse 🤣 i swear there's genetic memory!
A priest allegedly visiting the Borders asked in the local tavern 'Are there any Christians here' and received the reply 'No, only Elliots and Armstrongs'. Please note it's bad luck to spell Elliot with two LLs AND two TTs.
These are also the people who invented Football to settle 'differences' without resorting to war. 800-900 years ago. Someone could make a name for themselves producing a documentary covering the history of our football from 900 years ago to the Premier League. Do so before some melt claims the Aztecs or the Egyptians did it with no explanation of how it got from them to The Borders 900 years ago. Or just who where the guys who took it to the Continent and then South America in the 19/20th century? Certainly not Aztec or Egyptian emissaries!
@@crowbar9566 @AlexIlesUK sorry to put a silly reply, but I REALLY DO live in a pretend fantasy world where I cross over the Sabine River into Louisiana and pretend that I'm crossing over into France. I am a poor person, I can't ACTUALLY go to France.
@ not a modern boundary. Cumbria was an administrative county or council district that managed Cumberland, Westmorland, North Lancashire and parts of Yorkshire from 1974 - 2023. You don’t use administrative boundaries for geographical purposes especially abolished administrative boundaries if that’s what you want to call them. You always use the proper geographical and historical county boundaries. "The new county boundaries are administrative areas, and will not alter the traditional boundaries of counties, nor is it intended that the loyalties of people living in them will change despite the different names adopted by the new administrative counties.” Government statement issued on 1st April 1974 and printed in the Times newspaper
@@AlexIlesUK it’s just a shame that everyone got to keep their identity and heritage and we have ours constantly attacked. Great video other than that as a descendant of the boarder raiders. ✌️
at the battle of flodden field reiver families from the english and scottish side were caught chatting to each other during the battle. few people know about the attempted take of of the country by Percy Hostpur, likely backed by Scottish families as well
Percy Hotspur was portrayed in a recent movie called The King - great movie about Henry II rise and his victory at the battle of Agincort. I think it's still on Netflix.
The Grahams were the worst, but some escaped to America. Ring any bells today? I bought one of the first farms to be created in Dumfries after the reivers were crushed!
Hey this resembles my people in West Texas and the New Mexico Border. Kind of like the Lincoln County War we had and Billy the Kid. Well not exactly but a lot of the same people there ended up here and brought their uhh cattle stealing ways
@@AlexIlesUK I can’t wait. Some of my people left England, Scotland straight to America. Others went by way of Ulster for a little bit. Sometimes I find it odd that anyone from these areas would support King James at all .
You may wish to consider evidence of the Loraine family of Kirkharle, obviously arriving with the Norman’s as the Duke of Lorraine was more powerfull than the dukes of Normandy. Mary queen of Scot’s was the granddaughter of the Duke of Lorraine. At Kirkharle is still a church and monument to sir Robert Loraine who was killed and canabalised in 1643 during such raids and wars.
@ ohhh sorry you are offended by my just giving you some of the basics we were informed of growing up. I thought erroneously that you may have been interested in following up on my recognised humble amateur notes about it. Never mind again sorry for the offence and encroaching on your appreciated article.
@ not wishing to be misinterpreted, but the Lorraine family are a very quiet bunch with a history that is hard to dis cypher and I try to understand how they came to be Protestant and knighted when Maria de guise was proudly catholic. They also appear to have taken a very back seat to the Percy family in Northumberland considering their positions elsewhere in Europe. Kindly excuse my statements not referring to supporting evidence which actually is rather extensive. I’m trying not to get boring. It’s all a bit of a mystery putting bits and pieces together.
Hi there. Im an Armstrong descendent of Johnie Armstrong through his son John and Ellenor Featherstonehaugh. Our branch owes its survival to Sir Thomas Forster who sheltered Johnie Armstrong's G-Son.
Lawless? Think again ... depends whose law you're referring to. They were, in general supported by the crown (the lawmaker) to discourage English encroachment, something we are increasingly having to deal with.
It's generally accepted between all cultures that murder, theft, destruction of property are bad. Can I check - did you watch the episode and what I said in it?
Unfortunately that "disposable lifestyle" adapted to survive constant plundering by either kingdom and other Reivers followed them to the New World. Thomas Sowell in his book Migrations and Cultures, describes the disparity of outcomes between German immigrants and Scots Irish immigrants. He neglected to explain how they came to be Scots Irish. He just described shelters that were rudimentary at best with little to no crops and poor animal husbandry by the Scots Irish, combined with hard drinking and brawling, compared to hard working, highly productive Germans with massive yields of crops and animal products etc.
I did not realise that, but I can understand if you've been taught that generationally it's going to have a huge impact on your culture and living. Interesting how some of the American stereotypes of Scots and Irish would actually be Reiver 'culture'
@AlexIlesUK not only generational, but geographically reinforced as well. They would've had plenty of strife when they arrived in Ireland and the New World would've had plenty of plundering by local Indigenous and others. Or if they went directly from the Borders, King James 1 would've given them ample incentive to live light. That austerity would only be maladaptive when the environment no longer required it. Plus, prosperity is subjective. Two different people can be happy with two very different "standards" of living.
@@AlexIlesUKno drama. Ego and power if givin or taken is a meal to be eaten in caution, his story are many words that re subjective to all including myself
The Romans best army in world sent packing shitting them selfs building a fk off massive wall...vikings tried it on & london & germans 😅 Say no more always up for it and winning
The wall wasn't to stop. The Romans went north of it many times and had victories, the vikings went through the lands as well. I'm not sure of the London and Germans reference. Could you explain more?
The Anglos ruled all the way up to Edinburgh .......the Scottish/English border is a curiosity and convenient for map building and for those who want to define who they are by the line on a map .....we are all too closely related to be different
I'll admit it's sometimes frustrating seeing a comment like this as I'd like to be able to really in depth content. TH-cam though doesn't like it (look back through my content) so I have been trying to create things that are more introductory and I've improved my images so it is more 'prity pictures' as the image of the Reavers are lacking. I'm going to keep trying but TH-cam is wearing me down lately!
A Turnbull here, I love learning about my family history.
I recommend reading The Steele Bonnets.
I have it on my bookshelf!
Great book.
The proud grandson of a Turnbull here. My grandma born Elizabeth Turnbull in 1912 South East Northumberland and have managed track my family back a good few generation.
@michaelking3629 our side intermarried with a Romani Irish, Mullins.
@@theflamingone8729 interesting how many of us are already aware of our families and their background
I had the fortunate pleasure in the mid summer of 2003 to be traveling through this region and stumbled upon a wee celebration of the Lord of the March riding out to patrol the border. It was a very pleasant surprise and my first introduction into what life was like in the area during this period. So strong was this custom that it's portrayed annually unto this day.
It's a big part of the heritage of the people who live there!
Great video! I can’t wait for part 2! I’m a descendant of the Pringles, a reiving family that was allied to the Douglas clan. There is a lot of romanticization of the Reivers, but it was a time of brutal violence and difficult existence.
At the end of filming this I felt a wee bit flat as it was so depressing! What a terrible existance!
@ It is quite depressing to read all they lived through, and for hundreds of years at that. But they made for a very resilient people, and their names are known around the world (& even on the moon: Neil Armstrong).
Our families were close. I'm a nickson, a reiver clan also.
@@davidnickson1239 Hail, cousin!
@@GoBlueGirl78 Indeed. The Wardens and Keepers are gone, but the Riding Families survive. Here in south-east Kansas, my one county hosts 20+ Reiver surnames of long standing. We have been warriors, explorers and frontiersmen for centuries.
I'm a Geordie. My Mother was a Blenkinsop. I had a Grandmother called Veitch. These are Border surnames. Most of these Reiver Clans ended up settling on Tyneside and Wearside during the Industrial revolution. Reiver Clan surnames are very very common on Tyneside. Names like, Eliot, Bell, Graham, Charlton, Rutherford, Armstrong, Henderson etc.
We'll go into the surnames next episode!
Ha, that name is Blankenship in the US, common in the Appalachian region and the south.
@@rns7426 Blankenship is a very common name in my part of East Tennessee, along with Bell, Johnston/Johnson, Armstrong and Graham.
Great Alex going to watch border names next and look forward to part 2.
Thanks Beefeater, we've been working on the edits for part two this week. I am quite proud of this series!
Great explanation of how the border reivers came about, and their life style.
Thank you, I really enjoyed researching this one
Im a geordie, I am a direct descended of the border reiver nixon family
A great reiver family!
I am a direct descendent of the Elliott family
Another Geordie here by the surname of "Bowman". With stories of having roots in Bellingham Northumberland.
Been told we were border folk originally.
I'm a Wilson, my Mam's family is Armstrongs and Jacksons
I think I inherited something. Cos I've got a lot of muscle definition for a small woman, I raced bikes internationally keep ponies in the suburbs and was somewhat unappreciative of Lockdown 😅
Hail, cousin! My mother's family are Nixons with direct descent from Richard Nixon's ancestor. I've visited Liddesdale twice.
My father was best friends with two of the Noble brothers and he married a Nixon. I took guitar lessons from an Armstrong. All in a county in south-east KANSAS (which, itself, was once a bloody 'border' region).
Hi, you didn't show all who took turns at the marches. I'm a Kerr & we were a Castle & Tower family. So much destroyed when Borderer's were cleared & the enemy took our land. The Highland Clearances were later on in time, the Border folk were the first Scottish clearance. Sadly very few know about this hidden history.
There is a lot of history and to do it all in a single episode doesn't really work often, I am happy to do another episode in the future, but did did mention four of the main players. I can agree that the lands were cleared and it did transform the region. Can I ask which 'enemy' are you refering too?
Dave Kerr here, hello cousin.
I hope that's a friendly 'Hello Cousin ' and not a Harkonnen one!!
Lots do esp Americans who do know who and where their families came from , years ago Scottish TV did a few progs on the border families and there's quite a few vids on yt that are on location , east mid and west marches and a TV presenter who is an Armstrong , other Scottish tour vids that take you to these areas ,
game of thrones is practically based on the reiver history. few know it of course
Thanks for posting this, it's really interesting.
You are welcome
Thank you for this informative and well put together video, I really enjoyed it and learned such a lot about the reivers! I come from the Trotters of the East March, it's fascinating to have this heritage ☺️
Glad you enjoyed it!
A good way to understand the Reivers is that it was an early version of the Wild West or like the later Hatfield-McCoy feud in the U.S. The Scottish Marches was a frontier without much law but with raids, feuds, murder, cattle rustling, outlaws and sheriffs. The clans involved also produced some famous descendants in the U.S.: Richard Nixon, Lyndon B. Johnson, Billy Graham and Neil Armstrong, for example.
Those names come up next episode!
I’m from the Appalachian region and am Hatfield kin.
People here claim “Scot’s Irish” ancestry from time immemorial.
I take it that’s descended from the border area?
A lot of these names are common in the Appalachian region.
Neil Armstrong and his wife were given a big welcome in Langholm where my grandparents lived. There's a plaque there to commemorate his visit, and a new tartan was designed in his honour. There are videos on this platform of the visit. As kids we loved the "common riding" .
Fascinating first episode on this. Thank you! First learning about the border reivers as an adult brought back surnames from school here in the north-east of England (amazed we didn't learn about them there!) - surnames such as Graham, Charlton, Turnbull, Armstrong - and my uncle's middle name, Ridley.
You are welcome, a second episode is coming in the future.
@AlexIlesUK Look forward to it.
My gran's maiden name was Ridley. Most of my family come from the Borders.
Nice video Alex. I've always wanted to learn more about the Broder reivers.
Glad to help!
Information packed video. Looking forward to the next one. Thank you.
Thank you!
Great description of where my family originates
Glad you enjoyed it
Just discovered your channel, great content, very informative and entertaining. Im fascinated by history, and would love for you to do a video on the history of the Covenenters in my home area of Lanarkshire.
Hi Stuart, thank you, thats really kind of you to say. I will add your suggestion to the list; but I have to say that its as long as my arm and I am not a wee man, so please be patient with me!
I was always told my maiden name was Boarder Scottish. I'm a Geordie, but my name was named after a craft, Carver. Carpenters.
I'm doing my tree on ancestry, we were from the Hebrides and futher down in Kirkaldy.
We are from all over the world according to our genes.
I love Berwick, it's my favourite place.
Thankyou ✌️
Sounds really interesting
Just found your channel, i've read Robert Low's account of the border reivers set in the Tudor times, a must read for folk interested the history of the debatable lands. Video was well put together.
Thank you, I found his book a bit hard to read but it's a great source on the period!
I love your channel, and I’m excited to see more about the reivers…….many of these people eventually became the Scots-Irish with the advent of the northern Irish plantations, many who in turn emigrated to the American colonies, primarily to the South, Reiver culture almost mirrors exactly American Southern culture and eventually cowboy culture…..mainly because they were the same people; if ever given a chance, “Born Fighting: How the Scots Irish Shaped America” by Senator Jim Webb is an excellent read………keep up the good work Mr.Iles !
Thank you Kata, I have not looked into that yet but sounds like a great book
So were they the original hill bills ?
@@hod2116- hill folk who were supporters of King Billy (William III) - there's many believe that's where the term originates from. . .
@@rabhiggins7343 yep the Scots Irish prods
Another brilliant podcast
Thank you
OK - the Debatable land was NOT Redesdale and Tynedale. The Debatable land was situated on the Scottish/English border between the English West March and the Scottish West March. The Debatable Lands extended from the Solway Firth near Carlisle to Langholm in Dumfries and Galloway, the largest population centre being Canonbie. It wasn't near Redesdale or Tynedale. Also, the stretch of the Reiver raids was larger than you claim.
I watched that back and realised that in needing to be succinct content has ended up on the cutting room floor. I appreciate that it isn't as clear as It could be and sorry if that took away from your enjoyment.
Also the Dyke in the Debatable land (fattening land according to some) separated the Grahams from the Armstrongs on the respective side of the Border.
I just walked Scotch Dyke yesterday. It was made in the 1500s to give a fixed border and joins the River Sark to the Esk.
The Kerr family checking in
Welcome to the Party 🎊
Medford/Mitford Family: Wardens of The March
Crazy to think that simply by virtue of our last names we'd have been slaughtering one another a few hundred years ago.
Very interesting and informative show
Thank you
Very good. Enjoyed that.
Glad to hear that!
American Armstrong here! My line emmigrated out of County Fermanagh and before that was in the area of Langholm and Canonbie! Invictus Maneo!
I'll be looking at the names in the next episode
@@jamesarmstrong5424 my Mam was an Armstrong. her Dad was a Northumbrian but my Granny grew up near Boston Lincolnshire. We were raised in Middlesbrough, an industrial town. My Grandpa Wilson was also a Northumbrian..
The south of England never acknowledged what the owe the industrial North, and they've found it hard to push us around recently
My grandparents had a farm by Canonbie. My father walked to Canonbie school from there. They retired to Langholm and were there when Neil Armstrong visited. If you have not yet watch it there's an interesting documentary - Born Fighting. Two parts. -about the Scots Irish and their travails which led to a lot of the clan folks moving to Ireland.
@@AlexIlesUKMy Grandfather was a Scottish Armstrong, on my mother's side. Looking forward to your watching video on the Armstrongs. Also I have a tartan Armstrong scarf I wear regularly . 💙
My family were also known as border reivers who have their tartan, heraldic shield and family motto all assented to by Robert The Bruce personally for services undertaken for him before and during the Scottish war of independence. Additionally my family had been accused of the odd act of cannibalism in their struggles. My family moved to Aus from Northern Island during the potato famine and the moved from Scotland to Northern Island during the religious wars, (catholic Vs Protestant). Originally we were Celts.
Whats canabalism between friends?
At 7:06 I reckon thats Fatlips Castle and at 7:18 Smailholme Tower!
Both correct!
@AlexIlesUK I'd have been disappointed with Myself if I'd been wrong seeing as I've been up to top of both of them!
The building at 7:38 isn't a Peel Tower but is a Bastle House!
It was hard to find suitable images but I get your point
Love your talks on History Alex..Thank You..Must have been soo hard back then .
Incredibly so!
great stuff! As a southener its a topic I know next to nothing about - but fantastic summary
Thank you, it's a part of history that deserves to be known
I moved to up near Hadrians wall, heart of riever country. It's brilliant 👍
Excellent. Just subscribed
Much appreciated! Welcome to the clan! Now go find some sheep to take!
Canute the Great conquest and Siward Biornsson/JarlEarl of Northumbria, please do those.
Those are actually on the list or will be touched upon soon! Got a few other things in the pipe but I am a big fan of Cnute
@@AlexIlesUK Lady Ethelflaed eh.
No not her currently
Siward was my maternal 29th GGrandfather. I’d be interested in this as well. And my father grandfather was an Armstrong.
@@s.lucius8853 Wow really that's incredible.
Great video, sorry about the last time we spoke in the comments im not sure if you remember
Can't remember so don't worry! Glad you liked it
I have a feeling we will be seeing a bit of the old Reiver spirit again if the UK continues to behave badly. Letting old folks freeze in an island of coal never ends well. Happy Spring!
We will see
We will see!
We will see!
I don't remember the Clan but was it the Grahams described as "Scottish by birth but English by inclination"? I remember reading that this era saw the creation of the term "Hot Trod" meaning that if Raiders came across the Border, they could be pursued back across legally if done promptly. Giving us "Hot Rod" and how we use it today. This era was much akin to the Border Feuds here in America prior to the Civil War.
I did not know about hot rod but thats really intresting!
Very good. I know there’s a lot to discuss regarding the reivers. Something not discussed much is the marriages of families into other families on each side. I’m a Musgrave/Young descendant and the Musgrave married into the Armstrong’s and had times of peace and hate with the Dacres. Those border alliances still held strong after moving to America. They literally continued from the revolution up through the American civil war. My great grandparents held onto generational dislikes of certain family names & youbdidnt marry into certain families although the dislikes started in the borders hundreds of years ago. Those family clans literally continued on in America and many moved with each other
That's really interesting and I mention that a lot more in the second part of this series.
Hi Alex, if you haven't done already can you do a piece on the Scottish Border Gypsies and how they took advantage of border culture for survival?
I find it absolutely fascinating how they adapted to the local way of life and how their descendants remain in the region today.
Hi Gavin,
I will add it to the list, I have a long list of thing to research and read so I can't promise it will be anytime soon but I will look into it. I did see this article lately that may answer some of your questions: www.scotsman.com/heritage-and-retro/heritage/scotlands-lost-gypsy-kings-and-queens-and-the-borders-palace-of-the-other-royal-family-1407968
I think what you called the debatable land is actually the English Middle March. The debatable land was further west and was eventually split between England and Scotland along the Scotsdyke.
The wrong image went up and I only realised later. I'm sorry about that.
I have just walked Scotch Dyke yesterday
Im a Noble who i believe lived near bewcastle in cumbria and included the infamous outlaw Halbert Noble or Hobby as he was known
I'll have to look into his story
My mother's family are Nixons from Liddesdale, the "Bloodiest Vale in Britain". They rode with the Nobles and Armstrongs. I've visited the Borders thrice and Liddesdale twice.
It's quite a wild place isn't it!
@@AlexIlesUK Indeed. Hauntingly beautiful.
Very interesting. Thank you
Thank you!
Heads of the rievers were Robson snd Armstrong
Those were two powerful families in the later part of their history but they had no 'heads'
I thought the two level houses were called Bastles?
Yes they are too, I tried to make this simple but it means sometimes I cut stuff out
I was in England a few years ago to hike the Hadrian's wall path. I stayed for a night or so in Haltwhistle and toured several nearby Bastles. Very interesting.
Scott, Henderson and Redpath are three Reiver names in my family. The Redpaths were still keeping sheep or fighting as soldiers until my generation. There's a reason why Northumberland and Cumbria are the most scarcely populated counties of England.
They're beautiful now, but I wouldn't have wanted to live here back then. Horrendous!
I knew Redpaths growing up. I often wonder what would have happened If places like Jedburgh had become full mediaeval towns like Newcastle
John Armstrong (of Gilnockie) was my 18th great grandfather.
What an interesting family connection!
My people were "Hall" family, as far as I can tell from research they were a reiver family on the English side of the border...
There are some fantastic resources to find out more if you're looking to.
A Blake fella ranger here. Before you killed us or sent us away as convicts to America or Australia, we had holdings from Gallway, ireland, across that border, through gaul over to the Black lake, our home, now a sea, up under the Caucus mountains, iran to india...
We had iyher families with us, protecting the gates to hades and hella.
I dont understand.
£1 for anyone who can decipher @JJSPARROW1978
William Redcoat Bell and Nianen Bell fam checking in
Welcome!
I think the reivers get transported and form the backbone of the plantation of Ulster.
Yes, I cover that in the next episode!
I’m a Hall and descend from Kerrs and Carlisles also.
Everyone's connected!
It does look like the border existed since the Bronze Age. Google for maps of discoveries of copper axes being isotopes associated with Welsh copper. It’s quite reminiscent of the border between Britannia and Alba.
There's no bronze age Borders in that area that we can tell, but the Romans create a border that might be recognised. As for Britannia and Alba, that's two different eras
My name Latimer is a reiver name . Although I’m a scouser and my branch of the Latimers is from County Fermanagh
I talk about how they were scattered in the second part!
@ great channel by the way mate
@@ste2442 Thank you very much. Working hard to grow it and really enjoying chatting to everyone in the comments. For every 'um acctually' or 'I kNoW wHeRe ArTHur is' there's a hundred of you fantastic folk!
9:09 “... there's not much difference between an English or a Scottish sheep or cow and it's a fantastic way to combine business and pleasure...” Lool, spoken like a true Welshman :D Sorry, I'm Manx so shouldn't be throwing stones... ;P
Ah you see I'm descended from the Reavers too so I see taking others livestock as a recreation activity!
Haha :D I dunno who I'm descended from, so probably peasants, therefore it's none of my business if I've got any sense, what you gents get up to in the night! :D Great video(s) and channel BTW, really enjoy your stuff, thanks, and thanks for the reply too :)
@thorisrain oh the Reavers are definitely peasants! Drop by and we can go cattle and sheep rustling ;) thank you for the kind comment!
@@AlexIlesUK Aw, you know I just might! They've took all of the romance out of it these days with the ear-piercing scanners and security operatives in most places. :D Thank you for the awesome videos, please keep 'em coming :)
@@AlexIlesUK My Dad's (matriarchal) cousin stole a cow in Ireland, transported it to Scotland, sold it and then came to hide out with my family in England for three months before he was caught.
Classic 'Reiver' behaviour, bringing decent families into disrepute.
6' 4" of stupid and yes he had a borders name - Carr
My Dad always used to say, we're related by marriage, not by blood 😊😁😆
My ancestors were the Dunbars, they literally changed sides at a whim but that meant the majority survived, although my string of the family went south after De Brus took power and staying loyal to the ancient Dunkeld dynasty became too dangerous.
That was often the way back then!
I loved this video. I’m part of the Douglas clan on my mother’s side. A direct descendant of Sir James “the Black” Douglas. I’m ready to watch the next one.
Yeah… sorry to break the news to you. But you’re not a direct descendant on the black Douglass. The Black Douglas lineage ended after the defeat of the 9th Earl of Douglas in battle.
Could be through a daughter, I realise that's not direct but people sometimes get confused?
@@AlexIlesUK I maybe shouldn’t have used the word “direct”.
Please don't worry, I had someone tell me once they were a direct descendant of Joan of Arc, I pointed out that she died a virgin. It's your family heritage and I appreciate you sharing it here.
Thompson but my grandmother was Douglas too
Object to the criminal reference. Descendant of Pringle & McCully clans.
Heard and understood
@@AlexIlesUK Was'nt being that serious! I sometimes have strange urges to go and steal cattle on moonless nights. No idea why.
Geordie here too Thompson
I know Thompsons!
My Grandpa Carithers would say, with a smile that in hindsight was more of a smirk, when asked about our Scottish ancestors "they rode stolen horses to steal more horses, and any convenient cattle nearby for the Bruce. They kept their share, of course.." 😏👍😁
I wonder how often the bruces cattle were on the cards, but its been convieniently forgotten
It sounds horrible for the folks living there. The constant harrying though meant that no major cities could be established. This helped to preserve Hadrian's wall and forts from the stone being repurposed and Roman fortifications destroyed.
Our ancient history is one of the things that 'benefited' but it was a terrible period
I'm a burn, my family was from east Teviotdale on the border, we were known for highly violent reprisals, reiver is in our blood, been to prison 7 times for fighting drunk because of impulse control issues due to adhd 😅, plus I'm pretty good on a horse 🤣 i swear there's genetic memory!
Genetic memory is a attractive theory!
I’m a Scott a direct descendant of the Scott clan…..
They were origninal with their family name.
So am I! Fellow clansman!
A priest allegedly visiting the Borders asked in the local tavern 'Are there any Christians here' and received the reply 'No, only Elliots and Armstrongs'. Please note it's bad luck to spell Elliot with two LLs AND two TTs.
A cool story! As for luck we'll see!!
My father's family came from the Scottish boarders .
Do you know which reiver group it's connected too?
@AlexIlesUK sadly no.. but l did find some mention of reviewing activities years ago. ..
@@redhorsburgh..2345 There's a fantastic website that might help you: borderreiverheritage.com/surnames/
Thankyou ❤
hawick man hear we have the reivers festival hear but i dont actually know much about the reivers
These are also the people who invented Football to settle 'differences' without resorting to war. 800-900 years ago. Someone could make a name for themselves producing a documentary covering the history of our football from 900 years ago to the Premier League. Do so before some melt claims the Aztecs or the Egyptians did it with no explanation of how it got from them to The Borders 900 years ago. Or just who where the guys who took it to the Continent and then South America in the 19/20th century? Certainly not Aztec or Egyptian emissaries!
Sounds like you're well on the way to writing it yourself!
My 4 x Gt Grandmother was a Kerr and not proven yet, I potentially have Hunter ancestors.
👍🏻
Isn't the modern name Reeves derived from Reiver ,very apt for one in power today with the same outlook.
I'd need to look into that more.
Can't remember where I saw it but I read it comes from Shire Reeve. As does "Sheriff".
@@naughtiusmaximus5057this
Northumberland born and a Forster and proud of it
Good to hear?
Sometimes I can't tell if Louisiana is England and Texas is Scotland, or if Louisiana is France and Texas is England.
Europeans hadn't discovered the new world during this period so always presume the European locations
Is Delaware Nigeria?
?
@@crowbar9566 more like nicarauga
@@crowbar9566 @AlexIlesUK sorry to put a silly reply, but I REALLY DO live in a pretend fantasy world where I cross over the Sabine River into Louisiana and pretend that I'm crossing over into France. I am a poor person, I can't ACTUALLY go to France.
Reiver descendant frae Cumbria here
Hope you enjoyed the episode.
Click the Translate button above 👆
*Cumberland. Cumbria was the name of a regional council that ran the bins in parts of north west England from 1974 to 2023.
I used modern boundaries to help people understand and keep it more succinct.
@ not a modern boundary. Cumbria was an administrative county or council district that managed Cumberland, Westmorland, North Lancashire and parts of Yorkshire from 1974 - 2023. You don’t use administrative boundaries for geographical purposes especially abolished administrative boundaries if that’s what you want to call them. You always use the proper geographical and historical county boundaries.
"The new county boundaries are administrative areas, and will not alter the traditional boundaries of counties, nor is it intended that the loyalties of people living in them will change despite the different names adopted by the new administrative counties.”
Government statement issued on 1st April 1974 and printed in the Times newspaper
@TheNotoriousMIC 👍🏻
@JayJ-g3l we don't talk about him here.
@@AlexIlesUK it’s just a shame that everyone got to keep their identity and heritage and we have ours constantly attacked. Great video other than that as a descendant of the boarder raiders. ✌️
My ancestors were the border reivers!
Do you follow their traditions?
at the battle of flodden field reiver families from the english and scottish side were caught chatting to each other during the battle.
few people know about the attempted take of of the country by Percy Hostpur, likely backed by Scottish families as well
Hotspur and his father were very angry at King Henry. It is something I would like to do a episode on in the future!
Percy Hotspur was portrayed in a recent movie called The King - great movie about Henry II rise and his victory at the battle of Agincort. I think it's still on Netflix.
@crowbar9566 - yes , it's based on Shakespeare's Henry V
We’re the Carrs reiver families ,I’m not sure as confused with the kerrs
Ill be covering names in the next episode!
I'm a Kerr, Kerr and Carr are the same name.
Same. Ces Castle was theirs.
@@CIMAmotorThank you. I did my family research and it was so confusing because the names would switch same with Home and Hume, Gill and Galloway.
The Grahams were the worst, but some escaped to America. Ring any bells today? I bought one of the first farms to be created in Dumfries after the reivers were crushed!
I feel that some of the other commenters may have diffrent views on the 'crushed' element but congratulations!
@@AlexIlesUK 🙂
Hey this resembles my people in West Texas and the New Mexico Border. Kind of like the Lincoln County War we had and Billy the Kid. Well not exactly but a lot of the same people there ended up here and brought their uhh cattle stealing ways
Disorder often looks the same throughout the world!
Very similar! Id concur that America would be open season for the mass of extradited Reivers,just look up Reiver sirnames you wont need to look far..!
@wingmasterjimmy6724 that's episode two... It's coming!
@@AlexIlesUK I can’t wait. Some of my people left England, Scotland straight to America. Others went by way of Ulster for a little bit. Sometimes I find it odd that anyone from these areas would support King James at all .
@@tomtaylor6163 Because they got land in Ulster because of King James.
Some of us are still here in the Borders, biding our time. 😉
Biding your time for what?
@ the return of the good old days, of course. 😉⚔️💰🐂🐑🥷🏻 (ninja was the closest emoji I could find to a Reiver lol)
@Turnbull62 surely 🐏🤠🤬🎶💷 also works
My ancestors were criminals? One from the area got transported to the Colonies where 2 of his sons joined the Revolution.
If they were reivers then theres a good chance.
When i seen the title of this download i thought you were going to talk about our political criminals in the house of commons and lords.
Not this time!
Im a Foster or a Forster typical Border Riever Family primarily from the North East
They are also famous in Bamburgh - do you know much of their history?
@AlexIlesUK yes
@AlexIlesUK A fair amount
I do know the Forsters held Bamborugh Castle fir almost 400 years
You may wish to consider evidence of the Loraine family of Kirkharle, obviously arriving with the Norman’s as the Duke of Lorraine was more powerfull than the dukes of Normandy. Mary queen of Scot’s was the granddaughter of the Duke of Lorraine. At Kirkharle is still a church and monument to sir Robert Loraine who was killed and canabalised in 1643 during such raids and wars.
I'm a bit confused, you said I should consider evidence and then made a statement.
@ ohhh sorry you are offended by my just giving you some of the basics we were informed of growing up. I thought erroneously that you may have been interested in following up on my recognised humble amateur notes about it. Never mind again sorry for the offence and encroaching on your appreciated article.
@ ohh and kindly note I did say you may wish, not that you should which could have been interpreted as an obligation.
No I was just confused by your statement. No offence!
@ not wishing to be misinterpreted, but the Lorraine family are a very quiet bunch with a history that is hard to dis cypher and I try to understand how they came to be Protestant and knighted when Maria de guise was proudly catholic. They also appear to have taken a very back seat to the Percy family in Northumberland considering their positions elsewhere in Europe. Kindly excuse my statements not referring to supporting evidence which actually is rather extensive. I’m trying not to get boring. It’s all a bit of a mystery putting bits and pieces together.
Giving a shout out to our border women stand them against anyone in all respects
They are a amazing group of women!
@AlexIlesUK
We are so lucky
3 to 4 hours to build a house like you showed?... I doubt it!
There are not surviving images of the houses. It's an approximation
Is that the reevers?
No it's spelt correctly
Hi there. Im an Armstrong descendent of Johnie Armstrong through his son John and Ellenor Featherstonehaugh. Our branch owes its survival to Sir Thomas Forster who sheltered Johnie Armstrong's G-Son.
An interesting part of history!
I’m a Johnson from the lowlands
Welcome to the party!
Lawless? Think again ... depends whose law you're referring to. They were, in general supported by the crown (the lawmaker) to discourage English encroachment, something we are increasingly having to deal with.
It's generally accepted between all cultures that murder, theft, destruction of property are bad. Can I check - did you watch the episode and what I said in it?
Unfortunately that "disposable lifestyle" adapted to survive constant plundering by either kingdom and other Reivers followed them to the New World.
Thomas Sowell in his book Migrations and Cultures, describes the disparity of outcomes between German immigrants and Scots Irish immigrants. He neglected to explain how they came to be Scots Irish. He just described shelters that were rudimentary at best with little to no crops and poor animal husbandry by the Scots Irish, combined with hard drinking and brawling, compared to hard working, highly productive Germans with massive yields of crops and animal products etc.
I did not realise that, but I can understand if you've been taught that generationally it's going to have a huge impact on your culture and living. Interesting how some of the American stereotypes of Scots and Irish would actually be Reiver 'culture'
@AlexIlesUK not only generational, but geographically reinforced as well. They would've had plenty of strife when they arrived in Ireland and the New World would've had plenty of plundering by local Indigenous and others. Or if they went directly from the Borders, King James 1 would've given them ample incentive to live light.
That austerity would only be maladaptive when the environment no longer required it. Plus, prosperity is subjective. Two different people can be happy with two very different "standards" of living.
👍
👌🏻
I am of the peaceful trade based family of the Thompsons , we're just better than that way .....tongue n cheek
I've known Thompson's 🤣
Im still a border reiver
Welcome to the party
Gosh, in medieval times the Island of Ireland was TINY 😂.......apparently! 32 ☘️🇮🇪
It had quite a large population in medieval times, can I ask what part of the episode are you referring too.
@AlexIlesUK 😂 funny that!
And 1 landed on the moon
Aye he overshot the Carlisle racecourse!
And what now for y
I don't understand this comment?
@@AlexIlesUKno drama. Ego and power if givin or taken is a meal to be eaten in caution, his story are many words that re subjective to all including myself
Ok. I understand.
@@AlexIlesUK as in I we you us ,the soup we live in past and now I did not wish to sound disrespectful
Wildmen/ wt devils
That's one way of describing them
Newcastle the last castle in uk bk thn
B4 scotland
Warkworth, Alnwick, Bamburgh, Wark, Berwick, Norham, Etal, to name a few are all castle's north of Newcastle
I am a kerr
Welcome to the party
Honestly Vikings
Well, land based ones. It's hard to steal salmon and trout on a large scale
The Romans best army in world sent packing shitting them selfs building a fk off massive wall...vikings tried it on & london & germans 😅
Say no more always up for it and winning
The wall wasn't to stop. The Romans went north of it many times and had victories, the vikings went through the lands as well. I'm not sure of the London and Germans reference. Could you explain more?
The Anglos ruled all the way up to Edinburgh .......the Scottish/English border is a curiosity and convenient for map building and for those who want to define who they are by the line on a map .....we are all too closely related to be different
add some facts mate, you can not put this out generalised as fact with pretty pics
Thanks for the feedback.
my apologies, a bit disingenuous of me...thank you for the time and effort you put in
I'll admit it's sometimes frustrating seeing a comment like this as I'd like to be able to really in depth content. TH-cam though doesn't like it (look back through my content) so I have been trying to create things that are more introductory and I've improved my images so it is more 'prity pictures' as the image of the Reavers are lacking. I'm going to keep trying but TH-cam is wearing me down lately!