Magnus: You did WHAT?!?! Ahriman: I was trying to help! Magnus: Well you bloody didn't! Instead you've let hubris and misplaced intent ruin lives and damage centuries of... Ahriman: Erm...Father...are you okay. Magnus:...Huh. So this is how Father felt when I broke the Webway. Honestly, I can understand his frustration now.
It always saddens me what happened to the thousand, because prospero was a paradise as descrived in the hh book. Magnus was training his legion to become teachers and help other humans, he was teaching them to become something more than soldiers after the war, bloddy Ahriman wanted to have a vinyard, he even shared his prototypes of whine with his human apprentice and all. In general the whole legion came across as genuinely passionate and humble towards the general population, it's really sad.
I know it's a typo but man, "Prototypes of Whine" is a hilarious way to put Ahriman's general disposition. He really constantly whines in his own head.
@@Batuhanify Lol it's true xD Although the concept of prototype whining is an interesting concept tbh... > Someone fucks up a ritual >Ahriman vigorously opens a massive book full of schematics and scribles
I think that is why it was so important to get them away from the emperor because Magnus wanted to help train and control pyskers which would have eventually led to the mastery of warp powers and most likely the ability to block chaos influence altogether with Magnus teaching how to master it eventually chaos would be understood not feared but controlled and the price of gifts would be known to all
Yeah!! They were nice and learned. Probably would assist humanity as they transition to becoming a psychic race. They have such a dramatic story, I just don’t want them to lose.
I know we all feel strongly about how "Magnus did nothing wrong" or "did everything wrong", but I think we all are missing the bigger picture here. Namely that "the Changer of ways" is clearly a manipulative bastard and deserves our collective hate more then Magnus or Ahriman.
I have a somewhat weird theory regarding the traitors. The primarchs are basically not only gene enhanced but they were also created by more esoteric means. So maybe that means they were much more ... susceptible to be corrupted by the very thing they were made of? Just a thought.
Without Tzeench there would be no humanity thought the stars. He is the origin and the conduit of all warp gifts include astropathy. Knowingly or not, for good or ill, humanity took that bargain. No power comes without a price.
@@matthewmcneany Huh? So your contention is that races like the Eldar couldn't have had future sight without Tzeentch? Even prior to the War in Heaven, when all the chaos gods got way more powerful? Or are you saying this applies ONLY to mon keigh?
@@mduckernz _All_ I said was that Humanity would not be spread throughout the stars if it were not for the physic powers (including but not limited to telepathy) gifted to them by Tzeench. If you want a justification for that it might take a 1500 word essay on the amorality of Chaos, The Warp, psychic powers in general, belief, the relationship of The Old Ones, the Orks and the Eldar to the Chaos pantheon and the chronology of the 40k universe.
Ahriman in "Thousand sons" novel became one of my favorite marines and that is quite big since i loathe magic and Ahriman is a psyker. A space marine VERY rarely apologizes to a mortal and he did just that when they had to extract the info from that woman turning her into mush. He really felt sad for what he did, a rare thing to see in a Astartes. In the audiobook he sounded how should i put it? Nerdy but at the same time you can hear the compassion and wisdom in his words, I love that voice. He also stood up to Magnus, his Primarch, yelling at him - what did you do?! What deal did you make??? What deal?! - during the battle for Prospero which again takes balls. There are not many that yell at their Primarch.
Yeah, ahriman whas quite an exceptional case, In that book I offten thought that he could and should have taken charge of the thousand sons, his attitude and general initiative often contrasted with Magnuses passive and disengaged authority when it came to it. Magnus never questioned himself, which Ahriman constantly did.
@@dax7574 Also despite his power he was more than willing to clean up his weapons without magic while others did it... because they could. He knew that magic needed to be respected and be careful when using it.
There was that line where he literally yelled "Yes I am satisfied with what i did" defiantly to Magnus after the rubric spell because his Primarch Daddy wont lift a spell to help them.
I'm not a huge chaos fan by any means, but ill be damned if Ahriman isn't one of my favorite characters in 40k. Dude is literally going insane and giving everything up just to restore his brothers. Im super hyped for the chance to watch him get some revenge on Yvraine for restoring a few of his brothers and taking them away the next moment.
Ahriman sorta deserves it. Meddling with powers beyond his knowledge, dealing with eldritch abominations. A typical stereotype of a lovecraftian cultist, Tzeentch’s favorite toy, a reflection of Magnus’s folly in poking holes in the human webway.
Ahriman was also semi-warned when going after Magnus' shards by Temelucha, just before he snagged the Iron Oculus in The Crimson King novel - "all is dust"
Ahriman is my favorite character in 40k, he was the one who tried to keep Magnus' ego in check. His story in A Thousand Sons was amazing, and in The Crimson King, we see just how different from Magnus he really is. His story from that point onwards has been tragedy after tragedy.
Best part is Ahriman isn't a Chaos sorcerer, he doesn't worship Chaos and technically he isn't a traitor either (Space Wolves shot first), I also really hope he gets redeemed in some way.
The description of the summoning spell seems like an imitation of the Emperor's light and visage. I like how much of the Imperium is seeded in traitor marine lives, still allows you the ability to imagine ways the traitors are truly damned and also how they could maybe be saved by the Emperor in time.
@@S3Cs4uN8 Idk. If somebody like Perturabo sees clearly the diminished nature of his brothers as they ascend, then it's always possible that he may have a greater desire to leave chaos and restart. Magnus and Mortarian have little seeds that still exist. There's just a lot of resentment and their clouded minds to overcome.
My guess is practicality... Maybe to hang stuff from it, like keys? Or his favorite coffee mugs...? Maybe he wanted a defense from all those unwarranted Vulcan hugs?
Thousand sons far and away my favourite legion, I felt sorry for Magnus and his legion, everything they did they did for the right reasons, with genuine intent but every choice shaped and guided into their fall to chaos. I don't think any of the thousand sons did anything bad at all, even amon. They were always destined to fall to chaos. Even in their fall they still have hope. I love this legion, if they had the desire and numbers they could destroy any legion, even in the fall of prospero they destroyed thousands of space wolves and custodes and that's without Magnus' help until right at the end.
Simply put he's not magnus he died on prospero when he was shattered into shards this is just a fragment basically his worst quality's the most loyal shard was fused with a loyalist to make janus first grand master of the grey knights
@@DrunkenRoadkill no shard was Inherently good or evil, each were all equally magnus. Janus and Magnus had the same potential for both good and evil. The difference between the two shards is that one was brought to terra while the other has been in the eye of terror for millenia
Ahriman is one of my favourite characters from reading the 1st 3 books.....his determination to save his brothers from his own mistake is epic....his will is matched only by a primarch
Great vid, Graham’s heresy novels on the fall of the Thousand sons are definitely the most intensely emotional, powerful and thought provoking of all. Like yourself I’m torn about magnus’ folly. Yes he tried to warn his father but against the edicts of Nikea. Was his punishment deserved, probably not in a stand alone situation but in the backdrop of the confusion of the early Heresy absolutely. As for Ahriman, well his tragedy mirrors his fathers, when the crimson kings soul was divided it was Asehkt that found and recombobulated Magnus’s soul only to be expelled for his own folly. Grahan McNeil is materful when weaving this story, he’s such a great guy too. Like all 40k fans I’ve ‘Well Met’ over 30 years, thanks for all your hard work Wolf Lord, your content is some of the best available!! 👐🏻
In the first book of the Black Legion novel, there's a great description of the Rubric marines in there as well. If I wasn't at work I'd find the quote.
It sounds a lot like being trapped in the Sunken Place from the Get Out movie. Such a terrible fate. And not even the worst thing that CAN happen to you in the 40K universe.
Can we see these weeks: guardsman week Elder week Tau week Chaos week Leman russ week Tyradnides week Necron week Great crusade week Magus week Ork week Imperial fist week (Dorn) Iron hands week These are just some ideas lord wolf rho hope you like these suggestions for you.
I feel so desperately sorry for the Thousand Sons. As for Magnus, he left the people of Prospero, who raised and taught him, and countless of his gene-sons to die to supposedly prove a point that he went back on mere minutes later. Ahriman's spell went hideously wrong, but at least he tried to do something. He cares. Let us indeed leave Magnus to one side and think about his sons. ... this universe stirs strong emotions all right :D
I really love your videos. The way you approach these tales is fantastic, and your love for the lore/universe is palpable. I feel very engaged in the stories while listening. Thank you for your work. i look forward to more!
Let's not forget the novel talon of Horus when abbadon meets the Rubric marines of iskandar khayon. In abbadon's presents the Rubriki seemed to remember who they were and acknowledged abbadon not in the lifeless manner of rubric marines but as a fellow astartes
So you just finished Angron week. Am happy boi that you covered him, but i am curious Rho. I am curious about if reading about Magnus and Angron, especially the book Betrayer, has changed your outlook on Leman of the Russ.
As one who first came to the 40K universe with Dawn of War, it is impossible for me not to feel sympathy for those brothers trapped in this horrific fate. In so many universes, even before fallen Isador himself said the words, I myself have said "knowledge is power." The lost sons, they cry out for salvation and knowledge. Perhaps it is a mercy that it is denied. Spared that knowledge, they are spared the worst mistake for the noblest reason.
Ah Ahriman The most loyal of the thousands sons, and the son seeking to restore his brothers, he searches to fix things, not to hide behind hubris, gods and prophecy.
"Our Legion is mutated beyond recognition by our exposure to magic. What to do, what to do ? I know, I will draw more power from the chaos god of magic and mutation, surely that will fix everything. Surely adding more radiation to someone suffering from radiation sickness will make them better, right ? Sometimes my super soldier supercomputer brain amazes even me" Seriously, what an utter fail of common sense by Ahriman. Then again, to be a great sorcerer requires understanding chaos, comprehending madness itself, that is certainly damaging to one's sanity. Ahriman probably doesn't realize how hubris has overwritten logic and how his addiction to mystic power chains him to this ever ongoing, fruitless quest.
@@lynnusuk2092 The problem is that the Immaterium is mostly dominated by Chaos. But when you draw from the other, rarer sources of Empyrean might, then you gain more stable results. The Greater Good as perceived by the Imperium, the gods of the Eldar craftworlds, the Imperial Cult's domain. Those deep, strong imprints by psychically potent beings are more rigid, but more stable. Ahriman wanted a predictable result from a being of Chaos, a cure from mutation from the god of mutation, an end to his journey from the Changer of Ways. What I am trying to say is that while I do not deny that the Immaterium may hold a cure, Ahriman's approach is inherently flawed. His patron, power source and mystical foundation are in direct opposition to every one of his goals, but Tzeench keeps manipulating him as a useful pawn. Ultimately, I think he needs to let go of the power of Tzeench for a more Order aligned mystic source. Either find or create his own magical tradition. But he is too set in his ways to see that.
KaiserAfini yeah about the whole letting go of chaos thing, Ahriman is actively trying to that by breaking into the black library and to find a way to become a chaos god. He knows he needs a predictable source that can be manipulated to reverse the rubric but you don’t let go of chaos that easily especially the part of it that can see your every move to manipulate
I never understood why magnus was even mad about it. He was a demon prince when it happened. Surely he was just an arm of the lord of change at this point. Do demon princesses really have that much independence?
Ahriman summed up the Fall of his Legion best; In their ignorance and fear of us, they forced us to become the very warlocks and monsters, they falsely accused us of being.
* Mini-Spoiler Alert * From Talon of Horus book. I Love the part from Talon of Horus, where Iskandar K. talks about his Rubricae, and how it's related to this fragment you've brought to us. It seems, that at some point they can recover part of their will, or at least, a mere visage of what they were. Regarding the question of what they see/feel if Magnus is around, Iskandar comments that he can take control of the Rubricae linked to other TS Sorcerers, imposing his will and psychic might, so in a way, one could think that the Rubricae might feel awed by the strongest psychers, perhaps see them in a more clear and radiant light, therefore leading into a battle of mental might to link them into the Sorcerers will, who knows... Still, that part from Talon of Horus, when they face the clone of the Warmaster, it's beautifully written. Highly recommend the series to everyone, not only Black legion fans, but to everyone curious to see what's going on, the intestine wars between the traitor legions and their struggle to survive inside the Eye of Terror after the Heresy. You get to see a little bit of Death Guard, Emperor's Children, Iron Warriors, World Eaters, Thousand Sons and the Sons of Horus, among others.
Really enjoy your vids as of late. Do you think it'd be possible to podcastify and upload to spotify? If not, I understand and still support your work!
Is Leman Russ mean't to be secretly chaos? Still making my way through the Horus Heresy but so far he's taken out his brother and the one Legion that could take on the demons, disobeying his dad and following Horus. I know he takes on Horus, but also fails to kill kim. The Emperors executioner fails? Bit convenient? Also where are the Wolves during the actual Siege of Terra? Bit conspicuous by their absence? The Rout is loyal but I'm wondering if their Primarch is going to re emerge at some point in 40K as a demon Primarch.
Pannithor from Mantic will catch up, the lore in the third edition rulebook the celestial split to the shining and wicked ones, the war against winter absolutely beautiful stories.
Magnus and his mistake that doomed him and his legion is by far the worst tragedy of the traitor legions and mirrored in Ahriman and his rubric marines with his attempt to save his brothers.
Thousand Sons are my favorite legion and Ahriman my favorite character (and tabletop model). But despite this, it’s so hard to like the Primarch Magnus for who he is, and almost, everything he did..it’s a weird dichotomy
I wouldn't mind a progression of this where Ahriman manages to "reverse" the rubric and instead of the thousand sons being mindless dust in armor, they regain their minds but their dust forms stone bodies and are finally able to remove their armour. That way not only do the rubric marines have true sentience again whilst keeping their non human aesthetics but they still maintain their durability within the rules of the game due to their stone bodies. It would make for interesting models as well where parts of their armour is blasted away and what's left is stone flesh. That and exist rubric marine models would still be viable as they would just be within their armour as normal
As a Son of Magnus and admirer of Ahriman I feel nothing but sorrow for my brothers trapped by the Rubric and would gladly help my fellow brother undue his mistake starting with acquiring a certain Eldar Farseer.
Interestingly, if the 'stress/chaos' in the marines' heads leads to the warp-deformations, then taking away their identity and memories would probably solve that problem. (can't stress about things you don't remember). Honestly, I really, really hope the Thousand Sons get their redemption. Even reading the books and this short story, you get the sense that these are absolutely not your average people-torturing followers of Chaos. Yes there is Hybris, but Magnus' story is an extremely sad one. Just imagine Magnus reconstructing himself from the shards and becoming what his father wanted: the conduit to the future of the imperium. A golden Magnus without wings, taking his place on the throne. For he knows what suffering is, what hybris is, what the lines are between Chaos and order. Maybe I'm just wasting hope ;)
Magnus and Angron, two primarchs totally different, but so much alike in terms of redemption. Of course when my dad The Lion wakes, I'm pretty sure the enemies of mankind are doomed, just read his primarch book. The Dark Angels has weapons no other legion or chapter really have.
Actually the real destructive weapons are with the Salamanders...NOT taking credit away from the first legion but Only Volcan can create weapons to end star systems.
@@glnburnz5772 i understand that, I love the Salamanders and Vulkan, they are my 2nd favorite legion. I'm just not trying to spoil anything here for anyone who hasn't read his book yet. Let's just say the Emperor gave The Lion some shit that others would disapprove of.
Yeah... I know we all commonly speak of hubris amongst the fallen primarchs and space marines. And while no one gets a pass... Let's remember that Tzeench specializes in head games and hubris is an open door to even a regular person playing head games. Tzeench literally hit the "Ego Lottery" with Magnus... Magnus was deservedly an extremely proud being... I'm not saying Magnus gets a pass, but it's almost like he was born to meet Tzeench at some point in his existence.
Oh great wolf lord Rho! The strong and mighty! Could you do a video of where the legions get their culture from... for example 1000 sons seem to be Egyptian, Ultra Marines seem to come from the ancient greeks and Romanis, and you're great and powerful legion come from the Nordifric! Just something I have always wondered about the legions! I think people would love a video like this. May the All Father watch over your thread and keep you from sleeping on the red snow!!!
@@BM-is5ei oh I didn't think it was an attack at all. Was just explaining how I thought nordifric sounded like Nordic! But I think you are correct with noth Africa
If Russ had just checked with the Emp to confirm the kill order or a Primarch or had taken Magnus in and just kept his planet occupied.....think how different things would be. Magnus would have been on the throne as intended and we'd have another loyalist legion. I don't blame Russ though, he was just a tool and used well by the enemy. I just wonder if he ever felt regret after learning he got used and the wrong orders given?
@@hanfy769 He deserved the destruction of Fenris system. They forced Magnus and his legion to be the very monsters they feared because of their hatred, disgust, and fear of psychers, they are racist even before and during the Nicea event. They hated that Magnus could just talk to or thrall worlds without needless bloodshed, for this method they hated him. They forced them to become warlocks they so hated.
The wiki says that when one dies they can be re filled with their dust and sealed in armour to serve the XV again. So then, you are telling me that they are immortal?
Sympathy? From a Wolf???? The actions of your forefathers will never be forgotten. Answer me this! Which legion followed the orders of the the arch traitor and which legion died trying to protect civilians and tried to warn the Emperor of Horus? We don’t need sympathy from (spits on floor) WOLVES. (Rho, we absolutely love your vids! Keep them up and know we think you do a cracking job!)
Been a Blood Angels player since I started in 3rd Ed. Fought Thousand Sons then, and now, and they are still strong. Love the lore of the WS, BA, 1kSons, and Alpha Legion. Rock on Mutant Puppy Lord Rho! With love from Magnus the Red!
I don't expect it would work, as my understanding of the Rubric is that it bound all TS together, but no others (unless Ahriman specifically designated them upon casting it) ... but I suppose there remains the chance that all Astartes are bound together too, unknowingly, due to their origin/design.
@@mduckernz Ahriman said that "The rubric casted binds us to each other" while he was revealing his secret to Amon. You need the knowledge of their true names which is near deadly of attempt if you try to pry the souls of the rubricae, Ahriman had difficulty and nearly died when he attempted first (He locked the knowledge of the spells and mostly himself to his mind palace because he is repenting for his sins). Also you need the to be able to read prosperine language and their secret runes to know their true name to command them too. So yeah, for now only thousand sons can use rubricae.
With Angron, your father showed understanding but with Magnus, the Wolf king only showed hate. He's nothing but a dog on a leash and the Emperor knew what would happen by sending his executioner to Prospero. If he wanted Magnus alive, he would have sent Gulliman or Sanguinus.
Russ was in the wrong in prospero, it wasn’t his fault but he was still in the wrong. The emperor did not intend or even want the thousand sons to be attacked or destroyed. Russ was tricked into doing it by Horus. And the thousand sons never intended to betray the emperor or the imperium. Btw the thousand sons still kicked ass in the battle, giving the space wolves a 3-1 kill ratio in the thousand sons favor, while at first being told not to fight back, they still caused more causalities to the space wolves than the space wolves did to them.
Personally, I actually place a hefty part of the blame on Constantin Valdor and Jenetia Krole. Valdor and Krole are the 2nd and 3rd closest people to the Emperor, after Malcador, and I'm sure they knew that the Emperor intended for Magnus to be arrested and not killed, as Horus claims. As the most powerful agents of the Emperor's Will, I find it very strange that they did not speak up or intervene when Russ decided to change his plans for Prospero in accordance with Horus's orders.
Ahriman made the same mistake as Szarekh. He turned his people into mindless automotons. Only the strongest among them, retain a modicum of who they were. They traded their suffering with their souls. This was done, all in the name of relieving their suffering. Ahriman fell to machinations of Tzeetch. Szarekh to the Ctan. If the Silent King ever saw what happened to Thousand Sons, would He pity them? Be ashamed of them? Or would He annihilate them because it reminded Him too much of what happened to His people?
He’d study them tbh since his plan is to first restore the souls of his kind but there are some of them that want the immortality of the machine without the frailty of the organic, and a thousand sons rubricae is just that immortality but with the soul intact he just need to find the way to make the dusted necrons retain their consciousness after the procedure
I'm abit confused about Magnus the red because some of the shards of Magnus were helping the emperor yet what was left became a demon prince ? Could you help me out here haha
Magnus got multiple personalities disorder. The crimson king is arrogant/powerful Magnus and there are "loyal" shards and some that still hungers for knowledge without the hubris part
![[DRIP] ‘BILLIONAIRE’ PREVIEW](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m0eXQD0gIeE/mqdefault.jpg)
Magnus: You did WHAT?!?!
Ahriman: I was trying to help!
Magnus: Well you bloody didn't! Instead you've let hubris and misplaced intent ruin lives and damage centuries of...
Ahriman: Erm...Father...are you okay.
Magnus:...Huh. So this is how Father felt when I broke the Webway. Honestly, I can understand his frustration now.
Yes that's how it happened
When TTS has a flashback part for Magnus, I'm expecting it to go exactly like that, word for word.
@@tirollol1914 Still rooting for ya Ahriman. No Clown Librarian will stop you next time!
I read this with Magnus of emps tts
Emerson Jude Corpus especially the You Did WHAT? part, I instictively hear TTS Magnus voice in my head.
There's a delicious irony that Ahriman did to Magnus what Magnus did to the Emperor.
Just as planned
It always saddens me what happened to the thousand, because prospero was a paradise as descrived in the hh book. Magnus was training his legion to become teachers and help other humans, he was teaching them to become something more than soldiers after the war, bloddy Ahriman wanted to have a vinyard, he even shared his prototypes of whine with his human apprentice and all.
In general the whole legion came across as genuinely passionate and humble towards the general population, it's really sad.
I know it's a typo but man, "Prototypes of Whine" is a hilarious way to put Ahriman's general disposition. He really constantly whines in his own head.
@@Batuhanify Lol it's true xD
Although the concept of prototype whining is an interesting concept tbh...
> Someone fucks up a ritual
>Ahriman vigorously opens a massive book full of schematics and scribles
I think that is why it was so important to get them away from the emperor because Magnus wanted to help train and control pyskers which would have eventually led to the mastery of warp powers and most likely the ability to block chaos influence altogether with Magnus teaching how to master it eventually chaos would be understood not feared but controlled and the price of gifts would be known to all
@@akantor0811 There is no controlling chaos.. You can only deny it, and that at a great cost as Emperor and Malcador shows us.
Yeah!! They were nice and learned. Probably would assist humanity as they transition to becoming a psychic race. They have such a dramatic story, I just don’t want them to lose.
I know we all feel strongly about how "Magnus did nothing wrong" or "did everything wrong", but I think we all are missing the bigger picture here. Namely that "the Changer of ways" is clearly a manipulative bastard and deserves our collective hate more then Magnus or Ahriman.
I have a somewhat weird theory regarding the traitors. The primarchs are basically not only gene enhanced but they were also created by more esoteric means. So maybe that means they were much more ... susceptible to be corrupted by the very thing they were made of? Just a thought.
Without Tzeench there would be no humanity thought the stars. He is the origin and the conduit of all warp gifts include astropathy. Knowingly or not, for good or ill, humanity took that bargain. No power comes without a price.
@@matthewmcneany Huh?
So your contention is that races like the Eldar couldn't have had future sight without Tzeentch? Even prior to the War in Heaven, when all the chaos gods got way more powerful?
Or are you saying this applies ONLY to mon keigh?
@@mduckernz _All_ I said was that Humanity would not be spread throughout the stars if it were not for the physic powers (including but not limited to telepathy) gifted to them by Tzeench.
If you want a justification for that it might take a 1500 word essay on the amorality of Chaos, The Warp, psychic powers in general, belief, the relationship of The Old Ones, the Orks and the Eldar to the Chaos pantheon and the chronology of the 40k universe.
@@matthewmcneany its a working title 😆
Ahriman in "Thousand sons" novel became one of my favorite marines and that is quite big since i loathe magic and Ahriman is a psyker. A space marine VERY rarely apologizes to a mortal and he did just that when they had to extract the info from that woman turning her into mush. He really felt sad for what he did, a rare thing to see in a Astartes.
In the audiobook he sounded how should i put it? Nerdy but at the same time you can hear the compassion and wisdom in his words, I love that voice.
He also stood up to Magnus, his Primarch, yelling at him - what did you do?! What deal did you make??? What deal?! - during the battle for Prospero which again takes balls. There are not many that yell at their Primarch.
I can think of Typhus talking back to Mortarion and Rylanor default-dancing on Fulgrim, but yea, a rare few, really.
Yeah, ahriman whas quite an exceptional case, In that book I offten thought that he could and should have taken charge of the thousand sons, his attitude and general initiative often contrasted with Magnuses passive and disengaged authority when it came to it. Magnus never questioned himself, which Ahriman constantly did.
@@dax7574 Also despite his power he was more than willing to clean up his weapons without magic while others did it... because they could. He knew that magic needed to be respected and be careful when using it.
@@Shadowhunterbg Exactly, he was a very level headed character, specially for the standards of the time.
There was that line where he literally yelled "Yes I am satisfied with what i did" defiantly to Magnus after the rubric spell because his Primarch Daddy wont lift a spell to help them.
I'm not a huge chaos fan by any means, but ill be damned if Ahriman isn't one of my favorite characters in 40k. Dude is literally going insane and giving everything up just to restore his brothers. Im super hyped for the chance to watch him get some revenge on Yvraine for restoring a few of his brothers and taking them away the next moment.
Well he went after them so he might have saved a few.
Ahriman sorta deserves it. Meddling with powers beyond his knowledge, dealing with eldritch abominations. A typical stereotype of a lovecraftian cultist, Tzeentch’s favorite toy, a reflection of Magnus’s folly in poking holes in the human webway.
Ahriman was also semi-warned when going after Magnus' shards by Temelucha, just before he snagged the Iron Oculus in The Crimson King novel - "all is dust"
@@VandalAudi It' is either that or the extinction of his legion. He, just like any other slave of Tzeentch, doesn't have any choice in the matter.
Ahriman is my favorite character in 40k, he was the one who tried to keep Magnus' ego in check. His story in A Thousand Sons was amazing, and in The Crimson King, we see just how different from Magnus he really is. His story from that point onwards has been tragedy after tragedy.
Ahriman! One of the best characters in 40K. You always come through with the good stuff. That’s why I love this channel.
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i absolutely love the scene where Mekhari and Djedhor Rubrikei under comand of Iskhandar Khayon, come to their sences right before theyre killed....
Ahriman is probably my favorite chaos character in 40k. He's one of the few that I still retain hope for redemption of some kind.
Best part is Ahriman isn't a Chaos sorcerer, he doesn't worship Chaos and technically he isn't a traitor either (Space Wolves shot first), I also really hope he gets redeemed in some way.
The description of the summoning spell seems like an imitation of the Emperor's light and visage. I like how much of the Imperium is seeded in traitor marine lives, still allows you the ability to imagine ways the traitors are truly damned and also how they could maybe be saved by the Emperor in time.
How many of them would even want to be 'saved' by the Emperor at this point, I would wager the number is very, very small.
@@S3Cs4uN8 Idk. If somebody like Perturabo sees clearly the diminished nature of his brothers as they ascend, then it's always possible that he may have a greater desire to leave chaos and restart. Magnus and Mortarian have little seeds that still exist. There's just a lot of resentment and their clouded minds to overcome.
"I can't see a thing in this helmet".
I get the reference
You're a good narrator and it makes me happy that a Son of Russ can feel sympathy towards a Son of Magnus
My question is simple: why the nipple-horns?
Good question I asking myself that too but he never answered
Motor-boating heretics?
Very very very cold?
Daemons have deadly teeth, they can nibble on those horn tusk nipples because it aint flesh. Smart thinkin Magnus ;))))
My guess is practicality... Maybe to hang stuff from it, like keys? Or his favorite coffee mugs...? Maybe he wanted a defense from all those unwarranted Vulcan hugs?
Thousand sons far and away my favourite legion, I felt sorry for Magnus and his legion, everything they did they did for the right reasons, with genuine intent but every choice shaped and guided into their fall to chaos.
I don't think any of the thousand sons did anything bad at all, even amon. They were always destined to fall to chaos. Even in their fall they still have hope.
I love this legion, if they had the desire and numbers they could destroy any legion, even in the fall of prospero they destroyed thousands of space wolves and custodes and that's without Magnus' help until right at the end.
Mini Magnus keeps playing with powers he can't control !
Yes
same issue with Big Dady Magnus
He is forced to play with powers he can't control.
This makes the decision to turn Magnus into a generic moustache twirling villain even dumber.
He has such potential, and it helps that he's my favorite primarch
Simply put he's not magnus he died on prospero when he was shattered into shards this is just a fragment basically his worst quality's the most loyal shard was fused with a loyalist to make janus first grand master of the grey knights
@@DrunkenRoadkill no shard was Inherently good or evil, each were all equally magnus. Janus and Magnus had the same potential for both good and evil.
The difference between the two shards is that one was brought to terra while the other has been in the eye of terror for millenia
Ahriman is one of my favourite characters from reading the 1st 3 books.....his determination to save his brothers from his own mistake is epic....his will is matched only by a primarch
Great vid, Graham’s heresy novels on the fall of the Thousand sons are definitely the most intensely emotional, powerful and thought provoking of all. Like yourself I’m torn about magnus’ folly. Yes he tried to warn his father but against the edicts of Nikea. Was his punishment deserved, probably not in a stand alone situation but in the backdrop of the confusion of the early Heresy absolutely. As for Ahriman, well his tragedy mirrors his fathers, when the crimson kings soul was divided it was Asehkt that found and recombobulated Magnus’s soul only to be expelled for his own folly. Grahan McNeil is materful when weaving this story, he’s such a great guy too. Like all 40k fans I’ve ‘Well Met’ over 30 years, thanks for all your hard work Wolf Lord, your content is some of the best available!!
👐🏻
In the first book of the Black Legion novel, there's a great description of the Rubric marines in there as well. If I wasn't at work I'd find the quote.
Im glad to hear you got the Ahriman omnibus! I got it before the summer and read it daily for the summer and it was fantastic!
It sounds a lot like being trapped in the Sunken Place from the Get Out movie. Such a terrible fate.
And not even the worst thing that CAN happen to you in the 40K universe.
This is by far the best lorehammer channel
These stories are fascinating, the other stories with Ahriman are worth reading as well
Can we see these weeks:
guardsman week
Elder week
Tau week
Chaos week
Leman russ week
Tyradnides week
Necron week
Great crusade week
Magus week
Ork week
Imperial fist week (Dorn)
Iron hands week
These are just some ideas lord wolf rho hope you like these suggestions for you.
Commissar Yarrick week
@@slowrolltom1253
Sly marbo week
Kharn week
@@worldeater2414 saul travis week
@@brandonhughes4571 Rivenhound week
I feel so desperately sorry for the Thousand Sons. As for Magnus, he left the people of Prospero, who raised and taught him, and countless of his gene-sons to die to supposedly prove a point that he went back on mere minutes later. Ahriman's spell went hideously wrong, but at least he tried to do something. He cares. Let us indeed leave Magnus to one side and think about his sons.
... this universe stirs strong emotions all right :D
I really love your videos. The way you approach these tales is fantastic, and your love for the lore/universe is palpable. I feel very engaged in the stories while listening. Thank you for your work. i look forward to more!
Amazing, proving me wrong about the SW/Russ bias. Love Ahriman, was going to make a request for a clip on this. Thank you!
Thousand sons and Night Lords are my favorite traitor Marines.
I love how despite his genius and motivations, Ahriman's attitude regarding everything is "Fuck em', as long as I get what I want"
Let's not forget the novel talon of Horus when abbadon meets the Rubric marines of iskandar khayon. In abbadon's presents the Rubriki seemed to remember who they were and acknowledged abbadon not in the lifeless manner of rubric marines but as a fellow astartes
Yes, close on that unfortunately at the end Khayon had to lose everything...
So you just finished Angron week.
Am happy boi that you covered him, but i am curious Rho. I am curious about if reading about Magnus and Angron, especially the book Betrayer, has changed your outlook on Leman of the Russ.
As one who first came to the 40K universe with Dawn of War, it is impossible for me not to feel sympathy for those brothers trapped in this horrific fate.
In so many universes, even before fallen Isador himself said the words, I myself have said "knowledge is power." The lost sons, they cry out for salvation and knowledge. Perhaps it is a mercy that it is denied. Spared that knowledge, they are spared the worst mistake for the noblest reason.
Loved Angron week/weak!!!
Thank you Rho
"Not Magnus.I'm a son of Russ after all"
...I like that
Ah Ahriman
The most loyal of the thousands sons, and the son seeking to restore his brothers, he searches to fix things, not to hide behind hubris, gods and prophecy.
So a thousands sons week ?
"Our Legion is mutated beyond recognition by our exposure to magic. What to do, what to do ? I know, I will draw more power from the chaos god of magic and mutation, surely that will fix everything. Surely adding more radiation to someone suffering from radiation sickness will make them better, right ? Sometimes my super soldier supercomputer brain amazes even me" Seriously, what an utter fail of common sense by Ahriman. Then again, to be a great sorcerer requires understanding chaos, comprehending madness itself, that is certainly damaging to one's sanity. Ahriman probably doesn't realize how hubris has overwritten logic and how his addiction to mystic power chains him to this ever ongoing, fruitless quest.
I mean ynnead did reverse the rubric and he is made of the very warp stuff that created the other gods so in theory Ahriman has a point
@@lynnusuk2092 The problem is that the Immaterium is mostly dominated by Chaos. But when you draw from the other, rarer sources of Empyrean might, then you gain more stable results. The Greater Good as perceived by the Imperium, the gods of the Eldar craftworlds, the Imperial Cult's domain. Those deep, strong imprints by psychically potent beings are more rigid, but more stable. Ahriman wanted a predictable result from a being of Chaos, a cure from mutation from the god of mutation, an end to his journey from the Changer of Ways.
What I am trying to say is that while I do not deny that the Immaterium may hold a cure, Ahriman's approach is inherently flawed. His patron, power source and mystical foundation are in direct opposition to every one of his goals, but Tzeench keeps manipulating him as a useful pawn.
Ultimately, I think he needs to let go of the power of Tzeench for a more Order aligned mystic source. Either find or create his own magical tradition. But he is too set in his ways to see that.
KaiserAfini yeah about the whole letting go of chaos thing, Ahriman is actively trying to that by breaking into the black library and to find a way to become a chaos god. He knows he needs a predictable source that can be manipulated to reverse the rubric but you don’t let go of chaos that easily especially the part of it that can see your every move to manipulate
I never understood why magnus was even mad about it. He was a demon prince when it happened. Surely he was just an arm of the lord of change at this point. Do demon princesses really have that much independence?
Ahriman summed up the Fall of his Legion best;
In their ignorance and fear of us, they forced us to become the very warlocks and monsters, they falsely accused us of being.
* Mini-Spoiler Alert * From Talon of Horus book.
I Love the part from Talon of Horus, where Iskandar K. talks about his Rubricae, and how it's related to this fragment you've brought to us. It seems, that at some point they can recover part of their will, or at least, a mere visage of what they were. Regarding the question of what they see/feel if Magnus is around, Iskandar comments that he can take control of the Rubricae linked to other TS Sorcerers, imposing his will and psychic might, so in a way, one could think that the Rubricae might feel awed by the strongest psychers, perhaps see them in a more clear and radiant light, therefore leading into a battle of mental might to link them into the Sorcerers will, who knows...
Still, that part from Talon of Horus, when they face the clone of the Warmaster, it's beautifully written. Highly recommend the series to everyone, not only Black legion fans, but to everyone curious to see what's going on, the intestine wars between the traitor legions and their struggle to survive inside the Eye of Terror after the Heresy. You get to see a little bit of Death Guard, Emperor's Children, Iron Warriors, World Eaters, Thousand Sons and the Sons of Horus, among others.
Really enjoy your vids as of late. Do you think it'd be possible to podcastify and upload to spotify? If not, I understand and still support your work!
HOL'UP ...... NO GIFT VOUCHER !!?
The moment I hear the name Ahriman. I immediately think of when Ynnead reversed the rubric and his brothers returner. Only to be taken once more.
Is Leman Russ mean't to be secretly chaos?
Still making my way through the Horus Heresy but so far he's taken out his brother and the one Legion that could take on the demons, disobeying his dad and following Horus.
I know he takes on Horus, but also fails to kill kim. The Emperors executioner fails? Bit convenient?
Also where are the Wolves during the actual Siege of Terra? Bit conspicuous by their absence?
The Rout is loyal but I'm wondering if their Primarch is going to re emerge at some point in 40K as a demon Primarch.
Nah hes just like a hammer and can only hit every nail in sight.
I need to pick up that book about Ahriman.
Angron week was awesome! Have you ever considered doing a Xenos week?
Would love to see a week dedicated to one of the Xenos races.
Pannithor from Mantic will catch up, the lore in the third edition rulebook the celestial split to the shining and wicked ones, the war against winter absolutely beautiful stories.
Now all we need is a thousand sons week
Off topic, but have you started reading The Siege of Terra books? They’re incredible!
Magnus and his mistake that doomed him and his legion is by far the worst tragedy of the traitor legions and mirrored in Ahriman and his rubric marines with his attempt to save his brothers.
Hey wolf lord rho, love your insightful lore videos! Could we have a post heresy death guard week? Do stay safe over this period of uncertainty
do a video on how all the different primarchs see/visualize the emperor. Like how some see him as an old man and others see him totally different.
Great work man!
Ahriman definitely didnt want it to turn out the way it did
Thousand Sons are my favorite legion and Ahriman my favorite character (and tabletop model). But despite this, it’s so hard to like the Primarch Magnus for who he is, and almost, everything he did..it’s a weird dichotomy
I wouldn't mind a progression of this where Ahriman manages to "reverse" the rubric and instead of the thousand sons being mindless dust in armor, they regain their minds but their dust forms stone bodies and are finally able to remove their armour. That way not only do the rubric marines have true sentience again whilst keeping their non human aesthetics but they still maintain their durability within the rules of the game due to their stone bodies. It would make for interesting models as well where parts of their armour is blasted away and what's left is stone flesh. That and exist rubric marine models would still be viable as they would just be within their armour as normal
MY favorite chaos sorcerer
A thousand sons and prospero burns are masterpieces of 30k
And the best sentence that summarizes the tragedy is there in the books : we were loyal
As a Son of Magnus and admirer of Ahriman I feel nothing but sorrow for my brothers trapped by the Rubric and would gladly help my fellow brother undue his mistake starting with acquiring a certain Eldar Farseer.
I know I'm late but as your legion brother me too wish for our elder brother to succeed
I will enjoy this
I don't know how I should feel about you
Interestingly, if the 'stress/chaos' in the marines' heads leads to the warp-deformations, then taking away their identity and memories would probably solve that problem.
(can't stress about things you don't remember). Honestly, I really, really hope the Thousand Sons get their redemption. Even reading the books and this short story, you get the sense that these are absolutely not your average people-torturing followers of Chaos. Yes there is Hybris, but Magnus' story is an extremely sad one.
Just imagine Magnus reconstructing himself from the shards and becoming what his father wanted: the conduit to the future of the imperium. A golden Magnus without wings, taking his place on the throne. For he knows what suffering is, what hybris is, what the lines are between Chaos and order.
Maybe I'm just wasting hope ;)
The Thousand Sons will never break their curse, because balance
The Fabius Bile books are really good too.
Which universes are talking about exactly?
from my understanding is that the Rubricae will only re-experience that sensation when being bound to a new Sorcerer
Magnus and Angron, two primarchs totally different, but so much alike in terms of redemption. Of course when my dad The Lion wakes, I'm pretty sure the enemies of mankind are doomed, just read his primarch book. The Dark Angels has weapons no other legion or chapter really have.
Yuuuuuuuuuuuup
I just wish the Iron Hands were featured more :(
Actually the real destructive weapons are with the Salamanders...NOT taking credit away from the first legion but Only Volcan can create weapons to end star systems.
@@glnburnz5772 i understand that, I love the Salamanders and Vulkan, they are my 2nd favorite legion. I'm just not trying to spoil anything here for anyone who hasn't read his book yet. Let's just say the Emperor gave The Lion some shit that others would disapprove of.
@@comradecrawdaddy he was after all the First.
Of course, the secret weapon is Asmodai
Love you channel you do a great job
Ahriman week requested
Maybe this light is why they helped to stop fulgrim with the ancient dreadnaught ?
i am so happy i got here so fast :)
I feel sorry for fulgrim tbh and some of the traitor legions when you read the stories about them and there fall from grace
Insane depth
Yeah... I know we all commonly speak of hubris amongst the fallen primarchs and space marines. And while no one gets a pass... Let's remember that Tzeench specializes in head games and hubris is an open door to even a regular person playing head games. Tzeench literally hit the "Ego Lottery" with Magnus... Magnus was deservedly an extremely proud being... I'm not saying Magnus gets a pass, but it's almost like he was born to meet Tzeench at some point in his existence.
Oh great wolf lord Rho! The strong and mighty! Could you do a video of where the legions get their culture from... for example 1000 sons seem to be Egyptian, Ultra Marines seem to come from the ancient greeks and Romanis, and you're great and powerful legion come from the Nordifric! Just something I have always wondered about the legions! I think people would love a video like this. May the All Father watch over your thread and keep you from sleeping on the red snow!!!
Wait. Nordifric refers to nordic? I thought it was a weird version of north african or sth 😆
@@BM-is5ei now that you say that you might be correct! But I think I was able to explain my logic!
@@bcliff9110 dude, you were. That was not an attack. I was genuinely curious.
@@BM-is5ei oh I didn't think it was an attack at all. Was just explaining how I thought nordifric sounded like Nordic! But I think you are correct with noth Africa
@@bcliff9110 ah my bad. English is not my first language. I completely misunderstood.
Waiting for the Alpharius Omigon Primarch book release, who are the XX Legion really... 🤔
Iron hands week...
Why were only some of the thousand sons turned and not all? I haven’t found it in the lore myself yet from reading
The most powerful psykers didnt turn, instead they got a big power buff.
Didn't the Rubric of Ahriman also increase the power of the most powerful Sorcerors?
Yes it did
@@tirollol1914 Username checks out!
somehow Fiftinth legion has sucha good books, even tho lots of fans make fun of lots of stuf....lore is pretty amazing
Greetings!
Coments for the lore good!
Cheese for great Horned Rat!
Milk for khornflace!
Dust for nerd god!
Just as planed!
If Russ had just checked with the Emp to confirm the kill order or a Primarch or had taken Magnus in and just kept his planet occupied.....think how different things would be. Magnus would have been on the throne as intended and we'd have another loyalist legion.
I don't blame Russ though, he was just a tool and used well by the enemy. I just wonder if he ever felt regret after learning he got used and the wrong orders given?
He did as shown in future novels
@@hanfy769 He deserved the destruction of Fenris system. They forced Magnus and his legion to be the very monsters they feared because of their hatred, disgust, and fear of psychers, they are racist even before and during the Nicea event. They hated that Magnus could just talk to or thrall worlds without needless bloodshed, for this method they hated him. They forced them to become warlocks they so hated.
The wiki says that when one dies they can be re filled with their dust and sealed in armour to serve the XV again. So then, you are telling me that they are immortal?
If you liked him before, you will find new respect for him once you finish.
How do Thousand sons get new recruits?
What did he do that turned people to dust?
İ don't know what casting the rubric means
The rubric was a spell cast by ahriman to make it so his brothers couldn't get mutated by tzeentch
So the rubrics still have a soul but its locked or shattered somehow?
;( Angron week was so short.
Sympathy? From a Wolf???? The actions of your forefathers will never be forgotten. Answer me this! Which legion followed the orders of the the arch traitor and which legion died trying to protect civilians and tried to warn the Emperor of Horus? We don’t need sympathy from (spits on floor) WOLVES.
(Rho, we absolutely love your vids! Keep them up and know we think you do a cracking job!)
Who knew Dawn French wrote 40K books...
Been a Blood Angels player since I started in 3rd Ed. Fought Thousand Sons then, and now, and they are still strong. Love the lore of the WS, BA, 1kSons, and Alpha Legion. Rock on Mutant Puppy Lord Rho! With love from Magnus the Red!
Thousand sons are the best traitor marines, I’m willing to die on this hill
The Rubric didn't go wrong, it was sabotaged by Tzeentch's order.
Never been a fan of the thousand sons but listening to the Ahriman novel on audible my interest has been piqued
Well if magnus didn't interrupt the spell it probably would have worked
What goes through their heads? A bolter round..
What would happen if a psyker from the imperium tried to control thousand sons rubricae?
I don't expect it would work, as my understanding of the Rubric is that it bound all TS together, but no others (unless Ahriman specifically designated them upon casting it) ... but I suppose there remains the chance that all Astartes are bound together too, unknowingly, due to their origin/design.
@@mduckernz Ahriman said that "The rubric casted binds us to each other" while he was revealing his secret to Amon. You need the knowledge of their true names which is near deadly of attempt if you try to pry the souls of the rubricae, Ahriman had difficulty and nearly died when he attempted first (He locked the knowledge of the spells and mostly himself to his mind palace because he is repenting for his sins). Also you need the to be able to read prosperine language and their secret runes to know their true name to command them too. So yeah, for now only thousand sons can use rubricae.
With Angron, your father showed understanding but with Magnus, the Wolf king only showed hate. He's nothing but a dog on a leash and the Emperor knew what would happen by sending his executioner to Prospero. If he wanted Magnus alive, he would have sent Gulliman or Sanguinus.
Russ was in the wrong in prospero, it wasn’t his fault but he was still in the wrong. The emperor did not intend or even want the thousand sons to be attacked or destroyed. Russ was tricked into doing it by Horus. And the thousand sons never intended to betray the emperor or the imperium. Btw the thousand sons still kicked ass in the battle, giving the space wolves a 3-1 kill ratio in the thousand sons favor, while at first being told not to fight back, they still caused more causalities to the space wolves than the space wolves did to them.
Personally, I actually place a hefty part of the blame on Constantin Valdor and Jenetia Krole. Valdor and Krole are the 2nd and 3rd closest people to the Emperor, after Malcador, and I'm sure they knew that the Emperor intended for Magnus to be arrested and not killed, as Horus claims. As the most powerful agents of the Emperor's Will, I find it very strange that they did not speak up or intervene when Russ decided to change his plans for Prospero in accordance with Horus's orders.
7503funkymonkey that’s a good point, they should’ve counciled with Russ about the matter
Ahriman made the same mistake as Szarekh. He turned his people into mindless automotons. Only the strongest among them, retain a modicum of who they were. They traded their suffering with their souls. This was done, all in the name of relieving their suffering. Ahriman fell to machinations of Tzeetch. Szarekh to the Ctan. If the Silent King ever saw what happened to Thousand Sons, would He pity them? Be ashamed of them? Or would He annihilate them because it reminded Him too much of what happened to His people?
All of the above?
He’d study them tbh since his plan is to first restore the souls of his kind but there are some of them that want the immortality of the machine without the frailty of the organic, and a thousand sons rubricae is just that immortality but with the soul intact he just need to find the way to make the dusted necrons retain their consciousness after the procedure
War is Hell ...
I'm abit confused about Magnus the red because some of the shards of Magnus were helping the emperor yet what was left became a demon prince ? Could you help me out here haha
The shard Chaos couldn’t retrieve was merged with the legionnaire who became Janus.
Magnus got multiple personalities disorder. The crimson king is arrogant/powerful Magnus and there are "loyal" shards and some that still hungers for knowledge without the hubris part