Good podcast guys. I am actually the one who created that script on GameFAQs way back when (20+ years ago) and yep, messed up, it’s Faust not Deus. No idea if I can submit a correction at this point, but I’ll try!
Side note: I'm so happy this has become a weekly podcast now. Looking forward to Xenogears analysis every week is such a joy. I genuinely can't wait for each episode. Thank you to ALL other patreon supporters for getting us here just in time :)
Can I just say... pretty much the best opening scene in gaming history??? Omg this is just so unbelievably awesome. I just want a full anime series on this level
I really appreciate the part where you talked about playing XenoGears as someone who was brought up religiously. My background is also Christian: the Book of Revelations was absolutely terrifying to me as a teenager because I was told that the horrors it described were actually going to happen (and soon!). It sure does make playing this game so much more dramatic and touching. I really hope they make a remaster of this.
I am just impressed by Casen mentioning how the Eldritch is a babel tower of sorts. Not knowing what will happen later on. And I hope he is very happy for his newborn child! :3
@@mrbubbles6468 it really isn’t. But, it’s a dungeon that really focuses on platform jumps with some limited camera angles. In the first room, any mis-jump punishes you by putting back near the start of the room. It’s tedious more than tough. Once you know the jumps you need to make, it isn’t so bad.
The opening cutscene is the most Evangelion thing Xenogears has. Takahashi also made the right call when making it in traditional Japanese animation, it aged much better than anything from Final Fantasy VII. The captain's design looks similar to Captain Global from The Super Dimension Fortress Macross.
There's a couple Tower of Babel comparisons people could make in Xenogears. The intro ship is one because it literally splits humanity with god's punishment and creates new distinct humans after the fall. There is also the tower you climb later that works as a climb to the heavens metaphor.
For someone who hasn't played the game, his take on the symbolism and interpretation of JUST the opening FMV was astoundingly on point! Knowing the game and what Deus does to the mortal population in order to "use" them, it's just crazy that the opening set it up so well and that a newbie to the game caught on immediately! I wish my own mind worked that well.
Also, Xenogears is my absolute favourite game of all time. Its an endless food for thought thanks to insane amount of relations to actual thoughts of wise people of our civilisation. sorry for typos - screen keyboard ftw
One neat little tidbit is that the Eldridge crashes on a planet with a ring. A symbol or idea of sorts that gets expanded upon in the Xenoblade games. In the first one you often see Shulk talking to Alvis in front of Saturn, which just so happens to be associated with the Demiurge and the creation of the material world in Gnostic teachings. And only at the very end of the game the party is able to "transcend" Saturn and move closer to Earth. In Xenoblade 2 this symbol is represented by the Orbital Ring, which by the end of the game gets destroyed alongside the World Tree.
I’m so glad you’re continuing to do discussions on this game. Xenogears is by far one of my favorite games of all time and gets less hype than FFs but had just as much content and backstory if not more. At least more backstory
I don't know if this is something you've considered, but I've always thought that artists like Takahashi and Anno (the Evangelion creator) might've been unconsciously influenced by the state of Japan in the 90s, after the country had gone through 50 years of growth in adapting the western capitalistic model following the post-war restructuring of their society. It's led to wealth and prosperity for the Japanese people, but it came arguably at the cost of subjugating their culture and sense of national identity to the aims of continually catering towards western markets, especially given that Japan was the US's primary rival in trade before China ascended to that role. Imagine growing up in a country where you're constantly pressured to work harder and harder to continue selling products to a foreign nation, and to have so much influence from that nation creeping into your own culture and reshaping it. When I first made that connection, I finally figured out why the foreign/alien species invading Tokyo-3 from across the ocean were referred to as the "angels" in Evangelion. I think the same could be said of Xenogears' theme of standing up against an imposed religious structure that exerts itself as the dominant force in the world, and it could explain why Takahashi was drawn to Gnosticism, which more-or-less took the same approach thousands of years ago as a deconstruction of the biblical creation story. This makes even more sense when you consider what "God" in Xenogears and its followers are trying to do.
Germans felt the same way after WW1 about foreigners controlling their culture. They also looted them until their savior saved them and kicked out the bankers.
Absolutely loving this series! I was obsessed with Xenogears when it was first released and now, as an adult, I can appreciate it in such a vastly more informed manner. Can’t wait to hear more of your analysis on the game. Also, love the reference to Nier Automata also lifting the “be as gods” line. Nier Automata always felt like the spiritual successor to Xenogears for me, in regards to the density and bravery of the mythology.
I always really liked Cloud's Xenogears moment. "A billion mirror fragments... small... light..." referencing the lyrics to Small Two of Pieces, "Broken mirror, a million shades of light." The second part, "taken... angel's... singing voices..." referencing Small Two of Pieces again, "And the girl of the dawn with eyes of blue and angel wings, the songs of the season are her only crown." The relationship between Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy VII, and Xenogears, just from a development and creative capital standpoint, is such an interesting tale on its own. I love that Xenogears didn't even try to hide Lucca, and The Wind is Calling from Xenogears starts so similarly to Schala's Theme from Chrono Trigger. So much great stuff interwoven between these pieces of art.
So stoked to see the podcast hit a weekly schedule BUT please be careful Mike, you can be late/take longer than anticipated if it helps you keep your health/sanity (and I'm sure I'm not the only one that believes that)!
I remember on my first playthrough when it came out, and through 90% of the game my friend and I were going "But what the hell did the intro have to do with what's happening now?!" The game shows its cards very, very VERY slowly.
@@38kob Well yeah, that was the point. It's a mystery story and you spend the bulk of the game unraveling what happened. This makes it super exciting when you finally find the parts of the ship and get to explore them.
10/10 I have not experienced such existential chills since watching the "Power of Myth" conversations for the first time on PBS between Bill Moyers and Joseph Campbell. Xenogears was my first dusk to dawn multiple all night gaming experience and it is not a small part of my journey to becoming the cynical agnostic I am today. Thank (?) for the humanist masterpieces of Tarkovsky, Bodrov, Kurosawa, Takahata and Masaki Kobayashi (the Human Condition trilogy will kick the ass of your soul) .
Weekly episodes are an overwhelming wealth of new content and I absolutely love it. Thank you so much to Resonant Arc, and also all my fellow patrons!!
I really need to sit down and play Xenogears to completion. I feel conflicted because I don't want to spoil the game but listening to Mike do such a great job talking about the game keeps drawing my attention.
One aspect I often see when people talk about Xenogears, understandably given her seemingly more introverted personality, is how the overall concept and story of the game is often credited to Tetsuya Takahashi as his plot and all that. There are many other causes for this as well all must know by now as well. People much prefer the idea of a single Auteur, specially a male one, and it's much more marketable. From many interviews with Takahashi and Soraya over time it appears the story for Xenogears and many of the ideas were Soraya Saga's idea first and foremost, with Takahashi and Masato Kato working to develop further scenarios and such afterwards. It has always been a little sad for me how people attribute xenogears to him first most often and her second. A lot of what I feel is also based on following Soraya Saga on twitter and seeing how she responds to certain things said about her. She doesn't like how many fans seem to think of her in regards to projects in Monolith and in relation to Takahashi. As she says: "she's her own person first, someone's wife second." This is a tangent so feel free to ignore but it is something I became really passionate about when pursuing art and credits. An aspect for which I am often disappointed when people reffer to TWEWY (The World Ends With You) as a Nomura creation relates to this partially. He isn't the Director, Writer, or even the character designer, as many assume. He is the Producer but he is a big enough name where those involved are overshadowed. Seeing A-list names be used to market a game, and how that can end up overshadowing the many other artists involved. Some of whom may have been the ones who created the more memorable aspects of a game. They can often go forgotten when, bigger names in the industry push them out and take their place in the default common subconscious.
I can understand what your saying, but I got the feeling that when Mike say Takahashi he's including Soraya. And usually the Director is the most important person in a project like this, so I think is more common reference him more than anyone else.
Idk what the writing process was like for this game but I was always under the impression that his wife was the primary author and he was the designer.
@@DSzaks yeah I don't assume any negative intent on Mike's part. It is just a general Gripe I have and a mistake I myself have made before which is partially why I am so into said issue. Like in the Tangent. I accidentally attributed most of the music in Xenoblade to Yoko Shimomura for a while, when the grand majority of that OST that I loved was composed by Manami Kiyota as I learnt later, as an example. I've made further mistakes on this as well. It just feels a little disappointing at times to reffer to someone as the main brain behind a piece, that was thought up and created by someone else. And yeah, Soraya Saga is the one who came up with the original story concept. Games are interesting cuz they often have many writers, even more so than movies, who handle various aspects of the scenario, characters, dialogue, etc. So the aspect of authorial intent is quite interesting in games honestly. People seem to really like the idea of having big singular authors like for books and film (which even then) but more than many other mediums games are collaborative and singular auteurs are hard to find, specifically in companies now, and are mainly in indie endeavours. Going to stop myself from going on another tangent lol. It is just an aspect of the industry that I find intriguing, and overall also makes me think of other issues like how companies were likely structured and have been since. It's sad to think that Soraya Saga's story may not have been brought forth by Square Enix if Takahashi hadn't pushed it. For various reasons. But anyways sorry for ramble I tend to do this. I actually wrote a longer response but phone ran out of batteries mid response so It was deleted lol orz. TLDR: Yeah Soraya Saga is the original Story creator, the roles of directors and writers in games are rather complex, and I don't believe Mike had any bad intent or anything it is just a subject I can get really into and thought to bring it up here as it is semi relevant to the origins of the themes and such moving forward.
@@SanjiTyloxion I actually agree with many of the points you've made and find it quite sad to constantly have to do research myself to know who is responsible for what, though I've learnt to enjoy the process being a huge video game music fan (I wouldn't wish anyone to go trough the credits of a huge OST and trying to guess who arranged what with most of the tracks crediting one composer and not the arrangers (*angrily looking at the FF series*)). Ultimately, I think it's a matter of people "applying" film logic to everything because that's what they know best, whereas game developement is often very secretive especially in Japan. That's why you always see the term "budget" being thrown around when talking about JP animation when it's not the factor that will make (or not) a good anime : staff, schedule and environment are way more important. It's also why in the case of vdeo games, people always attribute everything to directors/producers/writers while ignoring the other important staff, when the production (for this specific medium especially) is entirely based around a certain synergy between every departments. How many times have we heard stories of staff changing scenes or in the contrary feeling reassured in their decisions because of the music (with Xenogears being one of them)? How many scenes were elevated or ruined because of the music? In the case of video games, even the smallest decision an artist or a progammer makes can have a huge impact on the overall production. However as other people have pointed out before, what goes into a game is always left to the directors and producers (at Square specifically, it's not the case everywhere) which is probably why people mostly refer to Takahashi when talking about Xenogears (in that case the producer, Hiromichi Tanaka, let him do his own thing and went on to create the battle system like he did for Secret of Mana and Chrono Trigger since he isn't fond of writing stories himself). This is also the case for TWEWY and its sequel, as Nomura's identity, both visual and conceptual, is all over the game : he is the CREATIVE producer and essentialy has well, full creative control even if he wasn't as involved in the day to day developement as the directors (Tatsuya Kando, Tomohiro Hasegawa and Tetsuro Hosokawa) were. The same applies to FFVI and to a lesser extent FFVII, the latter for which Sakaguchi still established the themes, wrote early drafts, created gameplay elements like materia and did programming himself all while on top doing the usual producer job by etablishing the team and overseeing the developement, even if the actual concepets and their execution were left to Kitase and his team of event planners (Nomura conceptualized the pursuit of the black-caped man arc, Kato wrote the lifestream scene with Tifa, Akiyama created Yuffie, Nojima wrote the Nibelheim incident and a good chunk of the script, Toriyama did a lot of the Midgar stuff like the Honey Bee Inn and the list goes on...). In the case of Xenogears, while the story and concept were created by Saga and Takahashi with some events being written by Masato Kato, Tanegashima Takashi and a few others, Takahashi had the final say on the script you see in-game (though of course he probably took many decisions with Saga, they're married): "Soraya Saga [...] and Tetsuya Takahashi wrote most of the screenplay, not just the basic scenario. Takahashi himself said he wrote the entire scenario in the 1998 interview with the Xenogears staff." You can read more about it here (the article credits each of the sources it uses) : xenogearsxenosagastudyguide.blogspot.com/p/the-history-of-xenogears.html I'm not trying to disminish Saga's role by any means as she and her husband ARE "Xeno" : you can still clearly see her concepts and characters in the final product. What I'm trying to clumsily articulate is that they created the entire thing together with Takahashi being the lead and writing (or at least closely inspecting) most of what you see in the final game. I hope that helped clearing things up since video game credits are often very nebulous and sorry for the overly long comment.
Small correction - The section where "You shall be as god's" gets plastered over the main screen occurs right before the captain orders the evacuation. Also - I always thought the line was a proclamation - As in Alpha-1 was telling the humans that it was going to destroy them and become god.
This was great and full of new insights I had never even considered or come across while surfing message boards back when the game was still somewhat new. There were so many things I didn't understand when I played this as a kid, but I knew I was experiencing something special.
Do you think you guys might cover Xenosaga as well one day? I would look forward to that and I'd say its dev history is even more fascinating than Xenogears', seeing the paths Takahashi and Saga took after leaving Square and all the new challenges they faced during the development of Xenosaga (which was eventually partially taken away from their hands even). And of course the games themselves are very interesting and rich material to analyze just like Xenogears.
Real quick: my mother and step father, both have taught English Literature at college prep/high school academic level for over 20 years. Both have extensive deep roots when it comes to literature, novels, poetry, linguistics, and everything that comes with that realm; and they have both grown to appreciate and value the story telling in games. Acknowledging that some games should be recognized as an all time great next to the greatest literature ever written in history…. Great writing in video games are getting recognized bit by bit! 💯
Super excited to play through this with you guys! I've actually never finished the game, and this is a great way to keep motivated to power through. Also holy crap, I missed SO MUCH in that opening cinematic! Glad it's easily replayable in attract mode! 😅
Really cool episode again. Loved the format with cuts of insights from Casen and the collaboration with the guys from the other podcast. Stoked for the next part! Congrats for the new kid Casen
I called it! When I heard that there were going to be two guests this episode I knew it was going to be the Retrograde pod squad! Two of my favorite video game podcasters coming together this is such a treat!! I hope to see them back for some later episodes!
Mike my man, I don't know if you always look this tired but I just want to say thanks but also please don't hesitate to slow things down and make a buffer for you guys, especially with Casen's child being born. (congratulations!) Xenogears is a monolith (ha) and is such a massive undertaking to explore with the amount of granularity you've already done just in these first 2 episodes and already on the channel. I'd really love for you to have the time to properly play, research, record, edit, etc without wearing yourselves down. The game deserves the time and you deserve your sanity. That being said, if you think you can keep it up at this pace then I'm here for it! Awesome first real episode! Really appreciated the Gnosticism 101 and how it relates to things as they are so far.
You really gotta respect that it took them an episode and a half just to prep for the opening cut scene. Truly giving the creators of Xenogears a celebration of what they put to disc
Great Pod guys, most impressive crossover this year! lol, I find it impressive that Casen is incredibly right and incredible wrong at the same time in his newbie interpretation of events.
Im a little bummed you glossed over the evacuation order. I know its inconsequential to the overall plot, but the delivery was superb. The captain rattles through the standard by the book order, pauses long enough to show the disbelief of the crew, then reemphasizes the finality of his order: "I am evacuating the ship. All of you evacuate the ship. (PERIOD!) Now!" This was so well delivered and maybe something i only appreciate because ive served in the Navy for 12 years, but the thought of hearing the almost impossible order to give up the ship is devastating and would cause anyone to stare in disbelief, NEEDING the reinforcement of the command. Top tier moment imo and one that is often overlooked.
Props to you guys for going into detail on one of the most lore heavy games out there. It's a monumental task and you guys are doing an amazing job covering it. Props where props are due
I want that framed Hans. Also, on the subject of cover art, we literally got Xenogears only because it had a robot in the front. No idea that it would've been life/philosophy-changing
Let me explain the "You Shall be As Gods" line: You Shall be as Gods was the password that Kevin Winnicott gave to Shion to activate the Kosmos system in Xenosaga. The Kosmos system and the Omega system from Xenosaga are this same Deus system. The fact that the password that only Kevin (who died) and Shion knew appears on the screen, means that it was a human somewhere who used the activation password to activate the Deus Alpha Omega System, that is why the captains eye narrow when he reads the message. It is possible that the captain knew the password as well, and by seeing the password on the screen understands that there was "someone" behind this. Perhaps Kevin Winnicot didn't really die after the end of Xenosaga 3?
As a kid, I knew there was more to this game then I could actually understand. I played this game several times over and each time I either found or learned something knew about Xenogears. Intellectually, this game was far behind my comprehension but seeing Fei's story unravel at the beginning had me hooked. Because of this game I was ahead of the curve in mental health. To avoid spoilers, I wont say more, but thank you so much for doing this fellas. Xenogears is a game, yes, but it really is more than just that and I appreciate anyone who gives a detailed Analysis on the game I love!
Great work on the podcast, love the format. The restrospective review of Xenogears is still my favorite piece of content you have produced. I was going to mention that while it may be a coincidence, at least for me, the image in the Captain’s pocket watch really stuck to me when I first played the game more than 10 years ago, and it’s still so similar to The image on the bottom left corner of the game case that you cannot help but associate both
Something that wasn't mention but I would add is to keep in mind what the weapon platforms on the ship look like when they pop up to shoot down the shuttles... you may see them again.
My favorite take is " i just thought it was the sole survivor". I love this indepth breakdown but let's be honest 99% of people just thought it was a survivor.
Take your time. You got this opportunity to thoroughly analyze one of the most complicated, compelling games ever made and likely won't redo. Hope it stays paced and detailed. 🧠
I was also an angsty pre-teen when this game dropped. All of the Biblical imagery actually drove me to look more deeply into Christianity. This journey eventually brought me to the Orthodox Church. This game's use of symbols showed me there is more to Christianity than "being good" and whatnot. Thanks for this series on the best game ever made.
Loved the RetroAm guys joining in for this one. If scheduling could permit, I think it'd be great to have them on again late in the series, perhaps in the finale.
A match made in heaven brought together to analyze a game made in hell (according to the devs). Just discovered this channel and have been a fan of the RA guys since they were doing Xenogears so I'm looking forward to going through this high level of enthusiasm for this game.
I don't know how old gnosticism is, but I remember that some gods in Greek mythology came to be in a similar way to the creation of Barbelo, as a example Athena is born from the borehead of her father Zeus. And trying to keep very vague, alot of the concept of "You shall become as Gods" is very present in Xenosaga, I would say maybe even more than in Xenogears
It's ironic you mentioned Zeus in this when Zeus itself tend to be portrayed as either a Demiurge or even lesser Archons in Sethian Gnostic Texts along the older Platonian interpretation of Demiurge, to the point of later post-Sethian text Pistis Sophia put Zeus as the equivalent of a lesser emanation from Archon Great Sabaoth The Good as "Little Sabaoth The Good" All while Neoplatonists harbour disdain against The Gnostics for being too Abrahamic, while the Church fathers hates the Gnostics for being too Pagan (which they tend to burn Gnostic Texts more than of both Neoplatonic and Hermetic texts)
Just try to buy it quick because Square keeps shutting them down because of... Well it not exactly being legal to make money off their property 🤔 CONGRATS in advance of your acquiring of this book. I became a 14 year old all over again when it came in
@@robertoemanuelroman YT keeps deleting my links. Look for me on FB and send me a message: Mike Jones It'll have this same picture as this profile and I'll send you guys the link there.
I find Gnosticism so fascinating. It's a cosmology that makes a degree of sense. No, it isn't perfect and neither is my understanding. But if we look at it through metaphor and analogy, I see the Demiurge as Man making God anthropomorphic and tainting the idea of the Monad with our flaws and kinda mucking up the whole concept. At least, from my point of view. Knowing the Monad seems akin to reaching Enlightenment. I think it works from a spiritual and secular approach. Oh yeah, Xenogears. Looks good!
I think traditionally, the demiurge is not said to be created by humans as Deus is in Xenogears. The demiurge is usually considered another divine being that humans could mistake for God, but not created by them.
@@JKirkis9 Oh yeah, according to the mythology as presented in the Gnostic texts. What I mean to say is, if one engages with the myth as metaphor, you could possibly see it as critique of the way the Church used God. But I stress; this is MY interpretation and I am no expert in anything. Not even my life.
@@TheBeird I think that's a valid interpretation. Yahweh is considered to be the demiurge in some gnostic traditions, so basically in that interpretation, Judaism, Christianity, and possibly Islam would all be worshiping the demiurge and not God. I don't know if you've played the game, so spoilers - but the role of the 'church' of the Ethos in game is essentially to control what knowledge humanity has access to, similarly to whatever organized religion one might say is acting against God (Christianity, especially the Catholic church, is the most obvious reference).
@@JKirkis9 Interesting. This game seems right up my street. Religion in general fascinates me man. British writer Howard Jacobson said something that's stuck with me for nearly a decade now. He said, and I paraphrase; 'As I get older, I don't find myself becoming more religious. I find myself becoming less non-religious.' I've pondered that for years and it's led me to believe that Faith, or Belief, is not an either/or choice that strident people on both sides of the debate would have us see it as. It's more akin to a Spectrum, similar to sexuality. I mean, I've met atheists who believe in ghosts, you know? I know Church goers who don't believe in an afterlife but do in God still. Isn't it curious too, that a few years ago the Pope was making references to the Demiurge in one of his speeches? So while I'm more open to Gnostic and Eastern ideas concerning spirituality, I certainly don't think all of Western monotheism is corrupt and evil. There's that saying; there are as many denominations of religion as there are religious practitioners. Sorry, I go off on one about the subject. Real Dunning Kruger sh't sometimes.
The OP is heavily influenced by the hacking sequence from Ep 13 of Evangelion. The design of the ship bridge and the captain is influenced from Aim for the Top (1988-89), which itself was inspired by Legend of Galactic Heroes (first film released in early 1988). The OP animation was created by Production IG, the guys who made Ghost in the Shell (1995).
1:20:41 I’ll add to that and the whole thing about Theosis Casen was talking about. SPOILER WARNING: DO NOT READ BEYOND THIS POINT IF YOU WISH TO AVOID SPOILERS! “You Shall Be As Gods,” could also be referring to the fact that Deus planned to incorporate/assimilate them into its own being very literally, as spare parts, as shown in the game.
I love going to work and have my phone in the car listening you guys talking about my favourite games. I was born in 1993 and I grew up with Final Fantasy and as a European I didn't have the opportunity to play xenogears til i downloaded it on my phone on ps emulator and finished it in the army in 2017. I live listening about these games !!
I took the "You shall be as gods" to be Deus sending a message about its goal. It wants to take over or absorb humanity into itself, and through that process they are "becoming gods", through its perspective.
Do you guys have interest in making a series like this one about Xenosaga? I'm very fascinated about that series and it complements this one, I think. Thanks for all your great work, there is no one like you, you are GREAT!!!!
Late to the party but here it goes; The concept of phase space is pretty important in science and engineering. In short; Phase space is a way of describing all possible states of a system, and maybe even more importantly, all states that are not possible. If you're evaluating some hypothesis the first thing you do is make sure the underlying model isn't using mutually exclusive variable inputs. That would represent a point in the "non-real" portion of the phase space. The second thing you want to do is make sure the model isn't being "fine-tuned" to find spurious correlations. No cherry-picking! So, and this may be a reach here, in the context of the opening scene when I hear "phased space logic being rewritten" I see this as a fancy way of saying this omega-1 entity is hijacking their systems and machinery and doing things they previously thought of as impossible. They are having to in real time expand the real portion of the phase space as more is possible then they previously thought. Perhaps the "logic" portion of that statement even means they are having to add new dimensions (imagine if suddenly one finds one needs to add color into the kinematic equations to describe the path of some object) to describe what they are seeing. Anyways, that's my two cents.
Xenogears is a game that difficult to make your way through because of how rough certain elements of it are. When I first played it as a teenager it took me months to get though it, and by the time I reached the end I barely understood its story. But upon replaying it, and this time giving it appropriate focus, I understood what a masterpiece it was. A one of a kind game.
Another great podcast. If you see the intro the first time you have really no idea what it's all about, but i like it how it all comes more clear when you play the game. It was really interesting to hear your thoughts. There was so much stuff which i never heared about^^
These are absolutely amazing, thank you guys so much for doing this! Having my mind blown all over again when I thought I knew all I could know about this masterpiece is the best feeling I've had in a long time.
1:02:10 "Phase-space logic" most likely just means the logic governing the ship's motion. "Phase-space" is a term used in physics to describe the position and momentum of an object over the course of its motion, given a certain amount of energy. So, "phase-space logic" is likely just the algorithms that Faust is using being taken over.
I played the demo that came in the brave fencer musashi and it immediately blew my teenage mind ! So for my birthday I got xenogears and played it straight through over 3 days ! I think the cut scene at the beginning is so fanatic is for the demo to create the hype for the game to get kids excited, which it did to be honest.
Spoilers ahead: I'd always read the phase-space statements along with the graphic showing what looks like a singularity forming in space to just be a wormhole forming to transport the ship. So Deus is seizing control of the ship and attempting to travel to the Main Planet, almost certainly Earth (it does seem in Xenogears/Xenosaga that Earth is the first home of humanity. It is mentioned later that Deus is a cybernetic bioweapon designed for planetary invasion. So this ship is carrying the original Zohar along with the new bioweapon system which becomes active. The embryo imagery we see seems to indicate it was being transported in that condition and spontaneously self-activated, likely though Zohar shenanigans. As a side note: I always loved that they tied their Ether system and the Gear power system to the Zohar as well. That humans aren't actually magic, they're connecting to the Zohar to manifest it, and all gears have a slave generator tied directly to the Zohar, rather than some micro nuclear whatsit.
11:07 Summoned beasts... instead of robots...What if they were like the eidolons of FF XIII? Now I am thinking how the FF franchise would turn out if it were made to be more like Xenoblade games, both in gameplay and story. 1:23:35 That naked woman reminded of the intro of Lunar: Eternal Blue.
On "Ye" in Ye shall be as gods, that is a mispelling caused by the invention of printing. In English we used to have a letter called Thorn that was TH. So printing press came from Germany. They didn't have this so instead of carving a new letter, they decided to use Y since it was so rarely used in english to represent it. So Ye Old Shop is The Old Shop. Ye shall be as Gods is Thee Shall Be as Gods (notice they cut off an E there to also save letters because when you printed a page, you had to have lots of E's since every letter needs its own blank). Later, they started using TH for Thorn, but for a while it was Y
You’ve done great work sir, keep it up, I have Avery strong passion for takahashis philosophy, and game worlds, and the jrpg classics in general , but I have to hide it because I work in a professional environment kinda and all those guys either don’t play games or just play cod. And the stigma of people who play those I don’t want but I love these games
My random assumption about FakeNet was that it was a designed defense mechanism the ship had to create a false network to divert a potential hostile cyber/hack/network attack. In the event of a virus attack or as we call today, a cyber attack, the crew could initiate a "fake" ship's network to divert the virus into allowing them to isolate the attack and render the true network safe. This seemed to be reinforced to me in the opening cutscene because in theme with Deus being so advanced, it blew through this diversion rendering it useless and it continued its assault to control the ships systems.
I’m looking forward to how this series progresses. I have a weird relationship with Xenogears. If you asked me to describe it I would sound like this: “Well, it’s got this unique art style with 3D backgrounds but sprite based characters. It looks like an anime too. And the battle system has you doing all these cool martial arts combos. And then sometimes you get into these giant mechs and fight huge monsters. There’s even entire dungeons you explore in your mechs! Oh and the music’s awesome too!” Notice how I’m not talking about the story? I always thought people really overrated Xenogears story. It had a lot of interesting ideas, but I never felt they were executed very well. I was never sure if it was poor writing or if a lot of it got lost in translation. After Honeywood’s comments in that interview Mike read last week I’m beginning to think it’s a little of column A, little of column B. Let’s take Fei for example: First of all, I feel this kind of character was explored a lot better in other media; specifically Fight Club and Mr. Robot. And his evil alter ego being named “Id” was always a bit too “on the nose” for me. And it doesn’t even make sense if you understand Freud. Your “Id” isn’t a separate personality; it’s supposed to represent your base desires. So we’ll see if this series can convince me this story really is as deep as people claim or if it’s just a bunch of stuff the director thought was cool.
That’s probably also why I wasn’t as big on Xenosaga. It was far less ambitious gameplay wise than Xenogears was; which was rather unique from other rpg’s at the time.
These videos are so good, thank you for investing the time (and congratulations too)! Two quick offerings / queries .... sorry in advance if its too long. 1) Re: the use of light in the section of the intro after the crash, I'm pretty sure the title for (just the end bit of) that song as listed in the soundtrack CDs/concert/etc is "Dark Dawn" (or something like that) - which would fit in really nicely with your analysis. 2) It always strikes me that the "techno-babble" sections of the intro really resemble Evangelion, almost to the point of looking like direct homage. At some point, it would be super interesting to hear your thoughts on the extent to which Gears was influenced by Eva? FWIW, even aside from the obvious superficial link of both using sci-fi settings as a vehicle for exploring serious issues of psychology, I can't help but also see parallels in terms of the sheer levels of creative ambition - to the rare extent of fundamentally challenging the limitations of their respective media. Which makes me wonder the extent to which the specific commercial success of Eva (which I guess must have been a very live thing in Japan at the time Gears was being made) might have created space for allowing projects like Gears to happen as they did? Or, was the late 90s in Japan just a favourable wider climate for such creativity? In any case, there are clearly plenty of thematic influences in Gears that are independent of anything in Eva too - as you are discussing so excellently.
Man, Xenogears is truly the final boss of video game critical analysis.
@@gregtroyan 100%
I WANT THE ANALYSIS!
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE ANALYSIS!!!
Xenogears is the type of game that is begging to be analyzed.
@@OskarXCI and a 100 million dolar budget to actually finish the original vision.
Good podcast guys. I am actually the one who created that script on GameFAQs way back when (20+ years ago) and yep, messed up, it’s Faust not Deus. No idea if I can submit a correction at this point, but I’ll try!
Side note: I'm so happy this has become a weekly podcast now. Looking forward to Xenogears analysis every week is such a joy. I genuinely can't wait for each episode. Thank you to ALL other patreon supporters for getting us here just in time :)
When you run out of time, you're supposed show a heavily-pixelated guy sitting in a chair, merely *summarizing* the second half of the podcast.
A pixel of Mike would be perfect
@@EdreesesPieces Biceps are like 15 pixels wide
What a lovely disc2 pun Patrick :)
lol
@@awildcyclistappears Not being a dick, genuinely curious because i'm not English. Isn't a pun a type of play of words?
Can I just say... pretty much the best opening scene in gaming history???
Omg this is just so unbelievably awesome. I just want a full anime series on this level
I really appreciate the part where you talked about playing XenoGears as someone who was brought up religiously.
My background is also Christian: the Book of Revelations was absolutely terrifying to me as a teenager because I was told that the horrors it described were actually going to happen (and soon!).
It sure does make playing this game so much more dramatic and touching. I really hope they make a remaster of this.
I am just impressed by Casen mentioning how the Eldritch is a babel tower of sorts. Not knowing what will happen later on. And I hope he is very happy for his newborn child! :3
Holy crap, Casen called the Tower of Babel and he hasn't even started the game beyond the intro movie at that point. Amazing!
this is still up to the first dungeon. the episode just went on to long.
Yo fuck that place tho
I mean, guessing Tower of Babel is not very hard.
@@mrbubbles6468 it really isn’t. But, it’s a dungeon that really focuses on platform jumps with some limited camera angles. In the first room, any mis-jump punishes you by putting back near the start of the room.
It’s tedious more than tough. Once you know the jumps you need to make, it isn’t so bad.
The opening cutscene is the most Evangelion thing Xenogears has. Takahashi also made the right call when making it in traditional Japanese animation, it aged much better than anything from Final Fantasy VII. The captain's design looks similar to Captain Global from The Super Dimension Fortress Macross.
I'm so thankful that TH-cam provides a platform for discussions like this about such niche topics.
Truth
They could use less censorship though.
"This spaceship seems like a tower of Babel"
He doesn't know yet...
Holy fuck would he be so Fing surprised!
Brilliant symbolism...
Sorry can you give the timestamp? Thanks
@@Pfizer980 about 40:40
There's a couple Tower of Babel comparisons people could make in Xenogears. The intro ship is one because it literally splits humanity with god's punishment and creates new distinct humans after the fall. There is also the tower you climb later that works as a climb to the heavens metaphor.
"At least he's reading" is a great quote. It was basically the only reason my parents let me play most video games.
For someone who hasn't played the game, his take on the symbolism and interpretation of JUST the opening FMV was astoundingly on point! Knowing the game and what Deus does to the mortal population in order to "use" them, it's just crazy that the opening set it up so well and that a newbie to the game caught on immediately! I wish my own mind worked that well.
Another 10/10 podcast. Sent to my friend and he converted from a Valentinian Gnostic to a Sethian Gnostic!
Thanks!
@@jackbatay4692 Thanks!
Unfortunately work has been very busy the last few weeks, but we are hoping to get back to recording soon.
Also, Xenogears is my absolute favourite game of all time. Its an endless food for thought thanks to insane amount of relations to actual thoughts of wise people of our civilisation.
sorry for typos - screen keyboard ftw
One neat little tidbit is that the Eldridge crashes on a planet with a ring. A symbol or idea of sorts that gets expanded upon in the Xenoblade games. In the first one you often see Shulk talking to Alvis in front of Saturn, which just so happens to be associated with the Demiurge and the creation of the material world in Gnostic teachings. And only at the very end of the game the party is able to "transcend" Saturn and move closer to Earth. In Xenoblade 2 this symbol is represented by the Orbital Ring, which by the end of the game gets destroyed alongside the World Tree.
I’m so glad you’re continuing to do discussions on this game. Xenogears is by far one of my favorite games of all time and gets less hype than FFs but had just as much content and backstory if not more. At least more backstory
dang, Casen with the tower of babel comparison. Hope he remembers saying that later
Great episode as always. Super happy for you Cassen, no rush, but you are indeed missed.
I don't know if this is something you've considered, but I've always thought that artists like Takahashi and Anno (the Evangelion creator) might've been unconsciously influenced by the state of Japan in the 90s, after the country had gone through 50 years of growth in adapting the western capitalistic model following the post-war restructuring of their society. It's led to wealth and prosperity for the Japanese people, but it came arguably at the cost of subjugating their culture and sense of national identity to the aims of continually catering towards western markets, especially given that Japan was the US's primary rival in trade before China ascended to that role. Imagine growing up in a country where you're constantly pressured to work harder and harder to continue selling products to a foreign nation, and to have so much influence from that nation creeping into your own culture and reshaping it. When I first made that connection, I finally figured out why the foreign/alien species invading Tokyo-3 from across the ocean were referred to as the "angels" in Evangelion. I think the same could be said of Xenogears' theme of standing up against an imposed religious structure that exerts itself as the dominant force in the world, and it could explain why Takahashi was drawn to Gnosticism, which more-or-less took the same approach thousands of years ago as a deconstruction of the biblical creation story. This makes even more sense when you consider what "God" in Xenogears and its followers are trying to do.
This was an enriching comment to read. Can’t be proven true but still a genius point to make.
Germans felt the same way after WW1 about foreigners controlling their culture. They also looted them until their savior saved them and kicked out the bankers.
Absolutely loving this series! I was obsessed with Xenogears when it was first released and now, as an adult, I can appreciate it in such a vastly more informed manner. Can’t wait to hear more of your analysis on the game. Also, love the reference to Nier Automata also lifting the “be as gods” line. Nier Automata always felt like the spiritual successor to Xenogears for me, in regards to the density and bravery of the mythology.
I always really liked Cloud's Xenogears moment. "A billion mirror fragments... small... light..." referencing the lyrics to Small Two of Pieces, "Broken mirror, a million shades of light." The second part, "taken... angel's... singing voices..." referencing Small Two of Pieces again, "And the girl of the dawn with eyes of blue and angel wings, the songs of the season are her only crown." The relationship between Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy VII, and Xenogears, just from a development and creative capital standpoint, is such an interesting tale on its own. I love that Xenogears didn't even try to hide Lucca, and The Wind is Calling from Xenogears starts so similarly to Schala's Theme from Chrono Trigger. So much great stuff interwoven between these pieces of art.
Right
So stoked to see the podcast hit a weekly schedule BUT please be careful Mike, you can be late/take longer than anticipated if it helps you keep your health/sanity (and I'm sure I'm not the only one that believes that)!
So happy uploads are weekly now :)
The hilarious parallel between running out of time because of the content in the video and the game :)
Casen: I am a little confused
Don't worry.... that's very normal for this game
I remember on my first playthrough when it came out, and through 90% of the game my friend and I were going "But what the hell did the intro have to do with what's happening now?!" The game shows its cards very, very VERY slowly.
@@38kob Well yeah, that was the point. It's a mystery story and you spend the bulk of the game unraveling what happened. This makes it super exciting when you finally find the parts of the ship and get to explore them.
10/10 I have not experienced such existential chills since watching the "Power of Myth" conversations for the first time on PBS between Bill Moyers and Joseph Campbell. Xenogears was my first dusk to dawn multiple all night gaming experience and it is not a small part of my journey to becoming the cynical agnostic I am today. Thank (?) for the humanist masterpieces of Tarkovsky, Bodrov, Kurosawa, Takahata and Masaki Kobayashi (the Human Condition trilogy will kick the ass of your soul) .
I'm glad Casen was still a part of this episode.
Weekly episodes are an overwhelming wealth of new content and I absolutely love it. Thank you so much to Resonant Arc, and also all my fellow patrons!!
Oh BTW Congrats Casen! As a father of 2 I can't even imagine going through that again so props to you and your wife!
Yea 2 was fine I for me lol
Thanks!! So far so good!
This is the greatest crossover since that Hannah-Barbara special where Yogi Bear steals the Spruce Goose.
I really need to sit down and play Xenogears to completion. I feel conflicted because I don't want to spoil the game but listening to Mike do such a great job talking about the game keeps drawing my attention.
Go listen to Retrograde Amnesia! It's excellent and very funny!
One aspect I often see when people talk about Xenogears, understandably given her seemingly more introverted personality, is how the overall concept and story of the game is often credited to Tetsuya Takahashi as his plot and all that. There are many other causes for this as well all must know by now as well. People much prefer the idea of a single Auteur, specially a male one, and it's much more marketable.
From many interviews with Takahashi and Soraya over time it appears the story for Xenogears and many of the ideas were Soraya Saga's idea first and foremost, with Takahashi and Masato Kato working to develop further scenarios and such afterwards. It has always been a little sad for me how people attribute xenogears to him first most often and her second.
A lot of what I feel is also based on following Soraya Saga on twitter and seeing how she responds to certain things said about her. She doesn't like how many fans seem to think of her in regards to projects in Monolith and in relation to Takahashi.
As she says: "she's her own person first, someone's wife second."
This is a tangent so feel free to ignore but it is something I became really passionate about when pursuing art and credits. An aspect for which I am often disappointed when people reffer to TWEWY (The World Ends With You) as a Nomura creation relates to this partially. He isn't the Director, Writer, or even the character designer, as many assume. He is the Producer but he is a big enough name where those involved are overshadowed. Seeing A-list names be used to market a game, and how that can end up overshadowing the many other artists involved. Some of whom may have been the ones who created the more memorable aspects of a game. They can often go forgotten when, bigger names in the industry push them out and take their place in the default common subconscious.
I can understand what your saying, but I got the feeling that when Mike say Takahashi he's including Soraya. And usually the Director is the most important person in a project like this, so I think is more common reference him more than anyone else.
Idk what the writing process was like for this game but I was always under the impression that his wife was the primary author and he was the designer.
@@DSzaks yeah I don't assume any negative intent on Mike's part. It is just a general Gripe I have and a mistake I myself have made before which is partially why I am so into said issue. Like in the Tangent. I accidentally attributed most of the music in Xenoblade to Yoko Shimomura for a while, when the grand majority of that OST that I loved was composed by Manami Kiyota as I learnt later, as an example. I've made further mistakes on this as well.
It just feels a little disappointing at times to reffer to someone as the main brain behind a piece, that was thought up and created by someone else. And yeah, Soraya Saga is the one who came up with the original story concept. Games are interesting cuz they often have many writers, even more so than movies, who handle various aspects of the scenario, characters, dialogue, etc. So the aspect of authorial intent is quite interesting in games honestly. People seem to really like the idea of having big singular authors like for books and film (which even then) but more than many other mediums games are collaborative and singular auteurs are hard to find, specifically in companies now, and are mainly in indie endeavours. Going to stop myself from going on another tangent lol.
It is just an aspect of the industry that I find intriguing, and overall also makes me think of other issues like how companies were likely structured and have been since. It's sad to think that Soraya Saga's story may not have been brought forth by Square Enix if Takahashi hadn't pushed it. For various reasons.
But anyways sorry for ramble I tend to do this. I actually wrote a longer response but phone ran out of batteries mid response so It was deleted lol orz.
TLDR: Yeah Soraya Saga is the original Story creator, the roles of directors and writers in games are rather complex, and I don't believe Mike had any bad intent or anything it is just a subject I can get really into and thought to bring it up here as it is semi relevant to the origins of the themes and such moving forward.
Huh. I did not know.
@@SanjiTyloxion I actually agree with many of the points you've made and find it quite sad to constantly have to do research myself to know who is responsible for what, though I've learnt to enjoy the process being a huge video game music fan (I wouldn't wish anyone to go trough the credits of a huge OST and trying to guess who arranged what with most of the tracks crediting one composer and not the arrangers (*angrily looking at the FF series*)).
Ultimately, I think it's a matter of people "applying" film logic to everything because that's what they know best, whereas game developement is often very secretive especially in Japan. That's why you always see the term "budget" being thrown around when talking about JP animation when it's not the factor that will make (or not) a good anime : staff, schedule and environment are way more important. It's also why in the case of vdeo games, people always attribute everything to directors/producers/writers while ignoring the other important staff, when the production (for this specific medium especially) is entirely based around a certain synergy between every departments. How many times have we heard stories of staff changing scenes or in the contrary feeling reassured in their decisions because of the music (with Xenogears being one of them)? How many scenes were elevated or ruined because of the music? In the case of video games, even the smallest decision an artist or a progammer makes can have a huge impact on the overall production.
However as other people have pointed out before, what goes into a game is always left to the directors and producers (at Square specifically, it's not the case everywhere) which is probably why people mostly refer to Takahashi when talking about Xenogears (in that case the producer, Hiromichi Tanaka, let him do his own thing and went on to create the battle system like he did for Secret of Mana and Chrono Trigger since he isn't fond of writing stories himself).
This is also the case for TWEWY and its sequel, as Nomura's identity, both visual and conceptual, is all over the game : he is the CREATIVE producer and essentialy has well, full creative control even if he wasn't as involved in the day to day developement as the directors (Tatsuya Kando, Tomohiro Hasegawa and Tetsuro Hosokawa) were.
The same applies to FFVI and to a lesser extent FFVII, the latter for which Sakaguchi still established the themes, wrote early drafts, created gameplay elements like materia and did programming himself all while on top doing the usual producer job by etablishing the team and overseeing the developement, even if the actual concepets and their execution were left to Kitase and his team of event planners (Nomura conceptualized the pursuit of the black-caped man arc, Kato wrote the lifestream scene with Tifa, Akiyama created Yuffie, Nojima wrote the Nibelheim incident and a good chunk of the script, Toriyama did a lot of the Midgar stuff like the Honey Bee Inn and the list goes on...).
In the case of Xenogears, while the story and concept were created by Saga and Takahashi with some events being written by Masato Kato, Tanegashima Takashi and a few others, Takahashi had the final say on the script you see in-game (though of course he probably took many decisions with Saga, they're married):
"Soraya Saga [...] and Tetsuya Takahashi wrote most of the screenplay, not just the basic scenario. Takahashi himself said he wrote the entire scenario in the 1998 interview with the Xenogears staff."
You can read more about it here (the article credits each of the sources it uses) : xenogearsxenosagastudyguide.blogspot.com/p/the-history-of-xenogears.html
I'm not trying to disminish Saga's role by any means as she and her husband ARE "Xeno" : you can still clearly see her concepts and characters in the final product. What I'm trying to clumsily articulate is that they created the entire thing together with Takahashi being the lead and writing (or at least closely inspecting) most of what you see in the final game. I hope that helped clearing things up since video game credits are often very nebulous and sorry for the overly long comment.
Small correction - The section where "You shall be as god's" gets plastered over the main screen occurs right before the captain orders the evacuation.
Also - I always thought the line was a proclamation - As in Alpha-1 was telling the humans that it was going to destroy them and become god.
This was great and full of new insights I had never even considered or come across while surfing message boards back when the game was still somewhat new. There were so many things I didn't understand when I played this as a kid, but I knew I was experiencing something special.
Once again commenting to say I appreciate this podcast and I'm glad that we're getting this Xenogears analysis!
Do you think you guys might cover Xenosaga as well one day? I would look forward to that and I'd say its dev history is even more fascinating than Xenogears', seeing the paths Takahashi and Saga took after leaving Square and all the new challenges they faced during the development of Xenosaga (which was eventually partially taken away from their hands even). And of course the games themselves are very interesting and rich material to analyze just like Xenogears.
Agreed, but I'm sure it will come down to a Patreon vote, so if you want that - become a patreon member :)
They just covered the 1st episode of xenosaga my man 👍🤙
Describing your newborn baby as "a good guy" is such a Casen move and I'm here for it.
Real quick: my mother and step father, both have taught English Literature at college prep/high school academic level for over 20 years. Both have extensive deep roots when it comes to literature, novels, poetry, linguistics, and everything that comes with that realm; and they have both grown to appreciate and value the story telling in games. Acknowledging that some games should be recognized as an all time great next to the greatest literature ever written in history…. Great writing in video games are getting recognized bit by bit! 💯
I love how after 4 hours you guys are just about done with the opening CGI. Xenogears getting the love it deserves.
Congrats to Casen! Best of luck to him and his wife! I'm super excited that Retrograde Amnesia is getting involved in this.
Super excited to play through this with you guys! I've actually never finished the game, and this is a great way to keep motivated to power through. Also holy crap, I missed SO MUCH in that opening cinematic! Glad it's easily replayable in attract mode! 😅
Really cool episode again. Loved the format with cuts of insights from Casen and the collaboration with the guys from the other podcast. Stoked for the next part! Congrats for the new kid Casen
Great analysis, as expected! Looking forward to playing and keeping up with the podcast. No better way to replay a treasured classic.
I called it! When I heard that there were going to be two guests this episode I knew it was going to be the Retrograde pod squad! Two of my favorite video game podcasters coming together this is such a treat!!
I hope to see them back for some later episodes!
Mike my man, I don't know if you always look this tired but I just want to say thanks but also please don't hesitate to slow things down and make a buffer for you guys, especially with Casen's child being born. (congratulations!)
Xenogears is a monolith (ha) and is such a massive undertaking to explore with the amount of granularity you've already done just in these first 2 episodes and already on the channel. I'd really love for you to have the time to properly play, research, record, edit, etc without wearing yourselves down. The game deserves the time and you deserve your sanity.
That being said, if you think you can keep it up at this pace then I'm here for it! Awesome first real episode! Really appreciated the Gnosticism 101 and how it relates to things as they are so far.
Thanks for the spoiler alert! I’m enjoying playing this game for the first time and coming here for the analysis 💪
You really gotta respect that it took them an episode and a half just to prep for the opening cut scene. Truly giving the creators of Xenogears a celebration of what they put to disc
Great Pod guys, most impressive crossover this year! lol, I find it impressive that Casen is incredibly right and incredible wrong at the same time in his newbie interpretation of events.
Ha, I look forward to learning which parts were right and which were wrong.
Im a little bummed you glossed over the evacuation order. I know its inconsequential to the overall plot, but the delivery was superb. The captain rattles through the standard by the book order, pauses long enough to show the disbelief of the crew, then reemphasizes the finality of his order: "I am evacuating the ship. All of you evacuate the ship. (PERIOD!) Now!"
This was so well delivered and maybe something i only appreciate because ive served in the Navy for 12 years, but the thought of hearing the almost impossible order to give up the ship is devastating and would cause anyone to stare in disbelief, NEEDING the reinforcement of the command. Top tier moment imo and one that is often overlooked.
Good discussion. I enjoy the long format while I work.
Props to you guys for going into detail on one of the most lore heavy games out there. It's a monumental task and you guys are doing an amazing job covering it. Props where props are due
I want that framed Hans. Also, on the subject of cover art, we literally got Xenogears only because it had a robot in the front. No idea that it would've been life/philosophy-changing
It's a printout of the character concept art from Perfect Works. Had to put that in the frame for this particular appearance!
Let me explain the "You Shall be As Gods" line: You Shall be as Gods was the password that Kevin Winnicott gave to Shion to activate the Kosmos system in Xenosaga. The Kosmos system and the Omega system from Xenosaga are this same Deus system. The fact that the password that only Kevin (who died) and Shion knew appears on the screen, means that it was a human somewhere who used the activation password to activate the Deus Alpha Omega System, that is why the captains eye narrow when he reads the message. It is possible that the captain knew the password as well, and by seeing the password on the screen understands that there was "someone" behind this. Perhaps Kevin Winnicot didn't really die after the end of Xenosaga 3?
As a kid, I knew there was more to this game then I could actually understand. I played this game several times over and each time I either found or learned something knew about Xenogears.
Intellectually, this game was far behind my comprehension but seeing Fei's story unravel at the beginning had me hooked. Because of this game I was ahead of the curve in mental health.
To avoid spoilers, I wont say more, but thank you so much for doing this fellas. Xenogears is a game, yes, but it really is more than just that and I appreciate anyone who gives a detailed Analysis on the game I love!
Everything I see this Podcast pop up in my sub feed I am stoked
The exact kind of in depth analysis I crave
You guys rock!
CONGRATULATIONS ON THE 3RD BABY!!! HOPE HES HEALTHY AND WELL AND STAYS THAT WAY!!
Good job guys been really enjoying this so far
Great work on the podcast, love the format. The restrospective review of Xenogears is still my favorite piece of content you have produced. I was going to mention that while it may be a coincidence, at least for me, the image in the Captain’s pocket watch really stuck to me when I first played the game more than 10 years ago, and it’s still so similar to The image on the bottom left corner of the game case that you cannot help but associate both
Something that wasn't mention but I would add is to keep in mind what the weapon platforms on the ship look like when they pop up to shoot down the shuttles... you may see them again.
My favorite take is " i just thought it was the sole survivor". I love this indepth breakdown but let's be honest 99% of people just thought it was a survivor.
Loved when Casen came in with that update! Congrats man!
The fact you guys were able to talk more than an hour on just the intro alone should tell you how huge and deep this story is.
The Xenogears rabbit hole is deep... and, down... we... go.
It's bottomless, we ain't ready.
Take your time. You got this opportunity to thoroughly analyze one of the most complicated, compelling games ever made and likely won't redo. Hope it stays paced and detailed. 🧠
I was also an angsty pre-teen when this game dropped. All of the Biblical imagery actually drove me to look more deeply into Christianity. This journey eventually brought me to the Orthodox Church. This game's use of symbols showed me there is more to Christianity than "being good" and whatnot. Thanks for this series on the best game ever made.
Loved the RetroAm guys joining in for this one. If scheduling could permit, I think it'd be great to have them on again late in the series, perhaps in the finale.
A match made in heaven brought together to analyze a game made in hell (according to the devs). Just discovered this channel and have been a fan of the RA guys since they were doing Xenogears so I'm looking forward to going through this high level of enthusiasm for this game.
I don't know how old gnosticism is, but I remember that some gods in Greek mythology came to be in a similar way to the creation of Barbelo, as a example Athena is born from the borehead of her father Zeus.
And trying to keep very vague, alot of the concept of "You shall become as Gods" is very present in Xenosaga, I would say maybe even more than in Xenogears
It's ironic you mentioned Zeus in this when Zeus itself tend to be portrayed as either a Demiurge or even lesser Archons in Sethian Gnostic Texts along the older Platonian interpretation of Demiurge, to the point of later post-Sethian text Pistis Sophia put Zeus as the equivalent of a lesser emanation from Archon Great Sabaoth The Good as "Little Sabaoth The Good"
All while Neoplatonists harbour disdain against The Gnostics for being too Abrahamic, while the Church fathers hates the Gnostics for being too Pagan (which they tend to burn Gnostic Texts more than of both Neoplatonic and Hermetic texts)
I'm currently reading my hard cover, English translated copy of Perfect Works and this was right on time.
Ohhhh snap it's Chris and Eric! 👀
Where did you get it? can you please share?
Yes please share where you got it!
Just try to buy it quick because Square keeps shutting them down because of... Well it not exactly being legal to make money off their property 🤔
CONGRATS in advance of your acquiring of this book. I became a 14 year old all over again when it came in
Oh, hey, what's up, nice to see you here!
@@robertoemanuelroman YT keeps deleting my links.
Look for me on FB and send me a message: Mike Jones
It'll have this same picture as this profile and I'll send you guys the link there.
I find Gnosticism so fascinating. It's a cosmology that makes a degree of sense. No, it isn't perfect and neither is my understanding. But if we look at it through metaphor and analogy, I see the Demiurge as Man making God anthropomorphic and tainting the idea of the Monad with our flaws and kinda mucking up the whole concept. At least, from my point of view. Knowing the Monad seems akin to reaching Enlightenment. I think it works from a spiritual and secular approach.
Oh yeah, Xenogears. Looks good!
I think traditionally, the demiurge is not said to be created by humans as Deus is in Xenogears. The demiurge is usually considered another divine being that humans could mistake for God, but not created by them.
@@JKirkis9 Oh yeah, according to the mythology as presented in the Gnostic texts. What I mean to say is, if one engages with the myth as metaphor, you could possibly see it as critique of the way the Church used God.
But I stress; this is MY interpretation and I am no expert in anything. Not even my life.
@@TheBeird I think that's a valid interpretation. Yahweh is considered to be the demiurge in some gnostic traditions, so basically in that interpretation, Judaism, Christianity, and possibly Islam would all be worshiping the demiurge and not God. I don't know if you've played the game, so spoilers - but the role of the 'church' of the Ethos in game is essentially to control what knowledge humanity has access to, similarly to whatever organized religion one might say is acting against God (Christianity, especially the Catholic church, is the most obvious reference).
@@JKirkis9 Interesting. This game seems right up my street.
Religion in general fascinates me man. British writer Howard Jacobson said something that's stuck with me for nearly a decade now. He said, and I paraphrase; 'As I get older, I don't find myself becoming more religious. I find myself becoming less non-religious.'
I've pondered that for years and it's led me to believe that Faith, or Belief, is not an either/or choice that strident people on both sides of the debate would have us see it as. It's more akin to a Spectrum, similar to sexuality.
I mean, I've met atheists who believe in ghosts, you know? I know Church goers who don't believe in an afterlife but do in God still. Isn't it curious too, that a few years ago the Pope was making references to the Demiurge in one of his speeches?
So while I'm more open to Gnostic and Eastern ideas concerning spirituality, I certainly don't think all of Western monotheism is corrupt and evil. There's that saying; there are as many denominations of religion as there are religious practitioners.
Sorry, I go off on one about the subject. Real Dunning Kruger sh't sometimes.
The OP is heavily influenced by the hacking sequence from Ep 13 of Evangelion. The design of the ship bridge and the captain is influenced from Aim for the Top (1988-89), which itself was inspired by Legend of Galactic Heroes (first film released in early 1988). The OP animation was created by Production IG, the guys who made Ghost in the Shell (1995).
1:20:41 I’ll add to that and the whole thing about Theosis Casen was talking about.
SPOILER WARNING: DO NOT READ BEYOND THIS POINT IF YOU WISH TO AVOID SPOILERS!
“You Shall Be As Gods,” could also be referring to the fact that Deus planned to incorporate/assimilate them into its own being very literally, as spare parts, as shown in the game.
I love going to work and have my phone in the car listening you guys talking about my favourite games. I was born in 1993 and I grew up with Final Fantasy and as a European I didn't have the opportunity to play xenogears til i downloaded it on my phone on ps emulator and finished it in the army in 2017. I live listening about these games !!
I took the "You shall be as gods" to be Deus sending a message about its goal. It wants to take over or absorb humanity into itself, and through that process they are "becoming gods", through its perspective.
This is what I was trying to get at in the non-spoiler portion without saying it so directly.
Do you guys have interest in making a series like this one about Xenosaga? I'm very fascinated about that series and it complements this one, I think. Thanks for all your great work, there is no one like you, you are GREAT!!!!
Late to the party but here it goes; The concept of phase space is pretty important in science and engineering. In short; Phase space is a way of describing all possible states of a system, and maybe even more importantly, all states that are not possible.
If you're evaluating some hypothesis the first thing you do is make sure the underlying model isn't using mutually exclusive variable inputs. That would represent a point in the "non-real" portion of the phase space. The second thing you want to do is make sure the model isn't being "fine-tuned" to find spurious correlations. No cherry-picking!
So, and this may be a reach here, in the context of the opening scene when I hear "phased space logic being rewritten" I see this as a fancy way of saying this omega-1 entity is hijacking their systems and machinery and doing things they previously thought of as impossible. They are having to in real time expand the real portion of the phase space as more is possible then they previously thought. Perhaps the "logic" portion of that statement even means they are having to add new dimensions (imagine if suddenly one finds one needs to add color into the kinematic equations to describe the path of some object) to describe what they are seeing.
Anyways, that's my two cents.
This podcast is so good, that i find hard to keep progressing on the game, leaving you guys behind. Really, what an amazing work.
I'm the same. I was trying to play with them, but I'm already at Shevat. Lol
Xenogears is a game that difficult to make your way through because of how rough certain elements of it are. When I first played it as a teenager it took me months to get though it, and by the time I reached the end I barely understood its story. But upon replaying it, and this time giving it appropriate focus, I understood what a masterpiece it was. A one of a kind game.
wow are you gonna go over the whole game? props to you!
1:02:20 A Phase Space is a diagrammatic representation of all the states a dynamic system can be in. It's some good technobabble here.
Another great podcast. If you see the intro the first time you have really no idea what it's all about, but i like it how it all comes more clear when you play the game.
It was really interesting to hear your thoughts. There was so much stuff which i never heared about^^
These are absolutely amazing, thank you guys so much for doing this! Having my mind blown all over again when I thought I knew all I could know about this masterpiece is the best feeling I've had in a long time.
1:02:10
"Phase-space logic" most likely just means the logic governing the ship's motion. "Phase-space" is a term used in physics to describe the position and momentum of an object over the course of its motion, given a certain amount of energy. So, "phase-space logic" is likely just the algorithms that Faust is using being taken over.
I played the demo that came in the brave fencer musashi and it immediately blew my teenage mind ! So for my birthday I got xenogears and played it straight through over 3 days ! I think the cut scene at the beginning is so fanatic is for the demo to create the hype for the game to get kids excited, which it did to be honest.
replaying the nostalgia in a podcast setting
Spoilers ahead:
I'd always read the phase-space statements along with the graphic showing what looks like a singularity forming in space to just be a wormhole forming to transport the ship. So Deus is seizing control of the ship and attempting to travel to the Main Planet, almost certainly Earth (it does seem in Xenogears/Xenosaga that Earth is the first home of humanity.
It is mentioned later that Deus is a cybernetic bioweapon designed for planetary invasion. So this ship is carrying the original Zohar along with the new bioweapon system which becomes active. The embryo imagery we see seems to indicate it was being transported in that condition and spontaneously self-activated, likely though Zohar shenanigans.
As a side note: I always loved that they tied their Ether system and the Gear power system to the Zohar as well. That humans aren't actually magic, they're connecting to the Zohar to manifest it, and all gears have a slave generator tied directly to the Zohar, rather than some micro nuclear whatsit.
11:07 Summoned beasts... instead of robots...What if they were like the eidolons of FF XIII? Now I am thinking how the FF franchise would turn out if it were made to be more like Xenoblade games, both in gameplay and story.
1:23:35 That naked woman reminded of the intro of Lunar: Eternal Blue.
Just discovered this channel, and I can't believe how close Casen gets to a lot of things
On "Ye" in Ye shall be as gods, that is a mispelling caused by the invention of printing. In English we used to have a letter called Thorn that was TH. So printing press came from Germany. They didn't have this so instead of carving a new letter, they decided to use Y since it was so rarely used in english to represent it. So Ye Old Shop is The Old Shop. Ye shall be as Gods is Thee Shall Be as Gods (notice they cut off an E there to also save letters because when you printed a page, you had to have lots of E's since every letter needs its own blank). Later, they started using TH for Thorn, but for a while it was Y
This is great guys, keep up the good work!
great job guys!
You’ve done great work sir, keep it up, I have Avery strong passion for takahashis philosophy, and game worlds, and the jrpg classics in general , but I have to hide it because I work in a professional environment kinda and all those guys either don’t play games or just play cod. And the stigma of people who play those I don’t want but I love these games
My random assumption about FakeNet was that it was a designed defense mechanism the ship had to create a false network to divert a potential hostile cyber/hack/network attack. In the event of a virus attack or as we call today, a cyber attack, the crew could initiate a "fake" ship's network to divert the virus into allowing them to isolate the attack and render the true network safe.
This seemed to be reinforced to me in the opening cutscene because in theme with Deus being so advanced, it blew through this diversion rendering it useless and it continued its assault to control the ships systems.
Congratulations Casen!
I envy everyone who gets to play this masterpiece spoiler free.
I’m looking forward to how this series progresses. I have a weird relationship with Xenogears. If you asked me to describe it I would sound like this:
“Well, it’s got this unique art style with 3D backgrounds but sprite based characters. It looks like an anime too. And the battle system has you doing all these cool martial arts combos. And then sometimes you get into these giant mechs and fight huge monsters. There’s even entire dungeons you explore in your mechs! Oh and the music’s awesome too!”
Notice how I’m not talking about the story? I always thought people really overrated Xenogears story. It had a lot of interesting ideas, but I never felt they were executed very well. I was never sure if it was poor writing or if a lot of it got lost in translation. After Honeywood’s comments in that interview Mike read last week I’m beginning to think it’s a little of column A, little of column B.
Let’s take Fei for example: First of all, I feel this kind of character was explored a lot better in other media; specifically Fight Club and Mr. Robot. And his evil alter ego being named “Id” was always a bit too “on the nose” for me. And it doesn’t even make sense if you understand Freud. Your “Id” isn’t a separate personality; it’s supposed to represent your base desires.
So we’ll see if this series can convince me this story really is as deep as people claim or if it’s just a bunch of stuff the director thought was cool.
That’s probably also why I wasn’t as big on Xenosaga. It was far less ambitious gameplay wise than Xenogears was; which was rather unique from other rpg’s at the time.
@@joelkirkwood8224 the issue with xenosaga is it's clear it had a troubled production. even more so then gears.
Caesin definitely has gestating foetuses on his mind lol
These videos are so good, thank you for investing the time (and congratulations too)! Two quick offerings / queries .... sorry in advance if its too long.
1) Re: the use of light in the section of the intro after the crash, I'm pretty sure the title for (just the end bit of) that song as listed in the soundtrack CDs/concert/etc is "Dark Dawn" (or something like that) - which would fit in really nicely with your analysis.
2) It always strikes me that the "techno-babble" sections of the intro really resemble Evangelion, almost to the point of looking like direct homage. At some point, it would be super interesting to hear your thoughts on the extent to which Gears was influenced by Eva? FWIW, even aside from the obvious superficial link of both using sci-fi settings as a vehicle for exploring serious issues of psychology, I can't help but also see parallels in terms of the sheer levels of creative ambition - to the rare extent of fundamentally challenging the limitations of their respective media. Which makes me wonder the extent to which the specific commercial success of Eva (which I guess must have been a very live thing in Japan at the time Gears was being made) might have created space for allowing projects like Gears to happen as they did? Or, was the late 90s in Japan just a favourable wider climate for such creativity? In any case, there are clearly plenty of thematic influences in Gears that are independent of anything in Eva too - as you are discussing so excellently.