Bandcamp is great, and I use it all the time to support friends. I know what you mean, that it's free to set up and maintain an artist account (I have done so for nearly 10 years), but 10-15% of your revenue on the back end is not "free", it's the lesser evil. And then there are the payment system fees, paypal/visa/etc.
you prolly dont care at all but does someone know of a method to log back into an Instagram account..? I was stupid forgot the login password. I would love any help you can give me.
I've been successful in the trailer music world and have been bit by the modular bug 3 years ago. It was definitely a result of burn out, mid life crisis, and the need to to try something truly artistic. I finished my first album last year and released it myself. Creating the album was one of the most artistically rewarding experiences of my life. Promoting the album was the most frustrating and worse experiences of my life. I posted it to all the modular groups, joined Meetup groups, and even tried to cross promote to the Epic music fans that I have in the TH-cam community. So far, nobody cares. Some of my dearest friends who are also colleagues still have not even listened to the album! I've learned a lot about the entire experience and I'll share a few of the things. For one, I don't tour. I'm still very busy in my media gig and cannot take time away by touring. Two, epic music fans don't give a shit about modular. Three, the modular community is full of hobbyists who are now enabled to easily realize their own musical ideas, so basically they don't care about seeking out other modular music. Four, I refuse to show my gear in my TH-cam videos because I think it's fucking stupid and boring to watch. Five, modular people only care about seeing the gear in modular videos. Six, self promoting is extremely time consuming. I'm a prolific composer and would rather write more music. Seven, the biggest modular talents still have daytime jobs either creating sound for electric Jaguars or touring with Nine Inch Nails. Seems like the entire thing is a failure but to me it's still a huge success. I've finally learned what I've heard my entire career but never truly understood until now and that is "It's not about the gear" what makes me unique is the ability to combine many different elements which includes using the computer as an instrument, my unique way of playing guitar, synthesis, and how to utilize outboard modular synths. It has made my media work 10times more unique and has taught me a lot about production and engineering. For me the most important thing about the entire venture was to grow as an artist. I believe I have achieved that, however, moving forward I will gladly employ the computer and live instruments:) getting outside of the box is a wonderful way to invigorate creativity, but if you want to make a living, you need to also master the computer.
I would definitely recommend making an EP, or at least a shorter album than say 12 tracks. In 2011 I released a 10-track album and the play counts on each track go down the further down the track list you go (so the first track has the most plays, second has less, third less than second and so on). I think a lot less people listen to entire albums front-to-back nowadays. People might have a shorter attention span, or less time to dedicate to an artist they've never heard of before. So I if you want to grab their attention and keep it, I would either release a few singles first a month apart; or for an album, a 7 or 8-track one that starts with a killer track. Last year I released a 30-minute 7-track album with another band and the analytics show that more people listened to the whole album. Granted, those numbers are small - we're a relatively unknown indie band, but I thought I'd give you my two cents!
This channel is my favorite on TH-cam today. How you’re not as big as Rick Beato is beyond me. Maybe you could try a “What Makes This Score Great” series hahaha
I think one of the main reasons is that Christian started this a lot later. I bet he'll double his viewership in the next 3 months, and again in 6 months, and again...
After three albums I stopped releasing them as nobody was interested / bought any. Now I make library music I really like, make some money and I'm much happier.
How did you get into library music production? Very interested in this path and I think my music would be suitable, being very inclined toward an atmospheric/ambient/incidental/furniture aesthetic.
Hi Christan I have been following you and spitfire for about a year, and I just want to thank you. You really provide some truly valuable information. I love your candour and I’m a big fan of the spitfire products. So thank you and keep uploading. Michael
amazing episode, in my opinion this kind of content here in youtube are amazing, and then help me to understand a lot of thing in the music/business world! Thanks so much, a fan fro Italy!!
Interesting as always. Me. I have a 3 piece band, we perform our own music, we record albums, put them on Spotify and all that stuff. We have never tried to get signed we just enjoy what we do. We don't think about the business, were in our 50's and we have a good time doing what we do. I'm just getting into Logic and am going to make a solo album, because I can and I want to. The money and business side of things can suck the musical life out of you if it's all you focus on. Focus on making music, enjoy performing it live, record it, release it and be safe in the knowledge that nothing is going to happen, nothing is going to change. But so what, it's a great ride with good times to be had. My music isn't shit, it's really good, but so is millions of other people's music. Enjoy yourself, doing what you do.
The indie celtic bands I like use kickstarter and similar campaigns to fund their work. They usually have something like for $10 you get mp3s, for $20 you get a CD, for $30 you get a CD and a shirt. One of them had something like for $2000 you got a house party anywhere in their touring area.
Love the idea of this project. I encourage anyone doing a YT channel having anything to do with music to include doing their own music as part of it. Isn't it the reason most of us are here?
Hi Christian, did you ever do a follow up to this? I'm guessing you've been too busy, but I for one would love to see the next chapter and more Q&As with Will on this topic. He has a wealth of information and seems like a genuinly nice guy too.
LP Prices in Europe 1500-2000 EUR for pressing 300 LPs + 1 EUR for each copy surplus. Don't know the details about cover art, but b&w is obviously cheaper. You could work with distributors directly, meaning they will buy, say 240 of 300 copies and distribute them to their partner shops\sites etc. Now comes the interesting part: if you browse shops like Hardwax you can get the idea which records get promoted/hyped\sell well. The range is quite broad, but still some market awareness is needed. I'm just pointing out there are some gatekeepers if you want to sell anything, though by wedging your 30k subscribers you could sell some quantity. Again, if you decide either to starve your family and sell a bunch of stuff to release 300 copies or not, I'd say don't. If you're ready to spend 3-5k here and now and slowly recoup expenses over 2-3 years - do it. Please re-check everything I say, because info might be obsolete or irrelevant for your particular case. back to that f'kn cue I've being avoiding for 30 mins
Thanks Christian for this insight. As most of us here are pretty much the same in what we do, make music and want people to hear that music, it is a lot easier now days to get heard without using record companies like you say. The funny thing that I have noticed after composing music for years is, I am writing the exact kind of music that I want to hear. We all do that, and i'm not being weird or big headed but I could listen to my own music all day long. All we have to do is get other people that like the same style as we do to hear it. My 'bedroom' music that I write is just that. Not for anyone else but just me but when it's written, I put it on TH-cam and Soundcloud cos I want others to hear what I have created. I think that is what we all do and we all hope that we get more and more listeners that want to hear more and more of our music then if that happens then we get bigger and bigger. I hope this makes sense lol
Such an incredible interview, great advice. Looking forward to the coming project! It would be interesting to hear you talk sometime about this in connection to being a media composer. I.e. how/can making an e.p. Or album on your own help with promotion and using it to get more traction as a starting composer. Love your videos mate!
great content as always. Enjoyed the conversation. Just knowing that its possible to make a decent living and not have to be a super star doing something you love, is very inspiring and motivating.
Four track EP on Vinyl. Do-able, promotable, sellable. Great calling card for media jobs. (I'm going to do one as well - been thinking about it for a while)
It may not be what was intended but the message I’ve taken from the Modular Mondays series is that we should break out of our creative comfort zones and try new things. I spend my late teens/early 20s making below average, derivative music with guitars, effects pedals, drum machines, multi-track tape recorders etc. In the last year or so I’ve started making music on computers and I’m far happier with the music I create now.
Omg, seriously, you're brilliant. Great presentation, but the thoughts behind this video are fantastic. I'm truly excited to see this. I'm currently writing an album I wish to self release and you've voiced my own concerns. Those of us in the band, of which there are three, live very far away from each other, so touring isn't an option. This is a studio album project only. Thank you so much for all of your effort. Well done.
Thanks for reminding me about Peter and Kerry! I was on the same bill as them years ago. Great band. Great songs. Thanks for the interview. I especially enjoyed the "if you haven't been found, you haven't got it" quote. I know a lot of people who hope to get discovered by a super proactive manager so that they can just get on with making music. Truth is the real inspired geniuses who are able to do that is a handful per generation :) everyone else has to get stuck into pushing themselves and self marketing. (Unfortunately I'm not very good at that part myself haha).
really good discussion, Christian, with some excellent home truths from Will, which gave me that jolt of recognition. But a few things: 1) Can you really not afford another lav for yourself? Sound quality and audibility would improve massively. 2) How can you possibly position a brand new Moog right in the middle of the shot and taunt us with it by not even mentioning it???? 3) excellent advice on going for a few tracks first. A whole album is a monumental undertaking, and surely getting a feel for it with an achievable goal of perhaps a single with some b sides would be a much more manageable goal. Anyway, will be fascinating journey. Good on you for setting it up and taking us along with you.
1. Yeah the lav thing is really difficult, the issue here is with the room and the fact that I'm talking too much... With only two channels (or two cameras) two lavs would be risky if one went down we'd lose the interview by having a lav mic on the contributor and me sitting next to a room mic that means we have safe coverage. I think its worth noting that these are done by myself, so I'm running sound, camera and interviewing in between meetings during massively busy days at Spitfire. I hope you agree that it is worth getting this content albeit in a somewhat guerrilla manner! Would be interested to see how you feel about an upcoming interview where I use the same technique but in a much tighter room? 2. Its Will's I'll ask him for you next time! 3. Yeah I agree. I think investing so much into something that is a totally new enterprise is poor business.
@@TheCrowHillCo I totally appreciate what you are doing, Christian, and I understand how demanding it is to do everything on a shoot - camera, sound and interviewing. I respect anyone who can cope with all of that and produce good content as you do. Doing sound is of course tricky when you cannot be constantly monitoring it. Myself, I have good enough equipment which I trust and know very well, so I would take the risk and use two lavs, which are very reliable. What I would do if I couldn't monitor it, is have the meters in line of sight (from a small external mixer) so I could reassure myself that the levels are healthy and registering a signal (after double checking before starting). An alternative to this, if you want to use one boom mic and one lav, is to simply have the boom on a stand or near enough to you so that you don't get so much room sound. Or, if having a backup is your concern, use the two lavs, going into the camera, and have a backup handheld recorder positioned between you, maybe out of sight below the desk. If you had to use this emergency backup you could easily sync it with the existing audio. In a much tighter room, that will definitely help the camera mic, but it is more important where it is in relation to you, could you take it off the camera, put it on a little portable stand pointing up towards you? Failing that, why not just get somebody to come along and help you, and take some of that weight off your shoulders? After all, it is really worth it when you are getting such good content. My experience is that single shooters are so relieved when they get a bit of help, they can then really focus on the content. Whatever you do, good luck with it. PS Dying to find out how that Moog is - don't tell me you didn't have a play with it!
Nearly around a year ago, and still a beginner in the world of media composition, I released the single off my very first album, which came out the next month, just in time for the event the music contained within was written for. At the end of 2018, I released my 2nd album, this one was totally an album I wrote for myself, unlike the aforementioned 1st one, which was written to a script. In between these two releases, I released the soundtrack for an indie web based game. I am incredibly terrible at marketing myself, and that is why I can get just a handful of Spotify listeners per month. A thing I did with my 1st album, but not with the 2nd one, was releasing it also as a physical CD, which proved to be a disastrous idea: out of 100 copies I had made, I have sold about 15, I believe. Yes, one may call me old-fashioned, but I find there is something fascinating in holding something physical in my hands. However, I did learn the lesson. Whether it was the right time to release albums, I cannot say, but I felt the urge of doing it and so I did. It was satisfying, and still is
Excellent as always CH! I found Will's interview thought provoking. It's great to hear things from the other side of the coin particularly when they come from someone with such a broad background. I'm early on my own similar journey and I figured that I'd worry about the business end of things when reach that bridge. I'm so glad to hear Will echo that thought. Now I have someone to blame!
I'm really looking forward to seeing how you approach this Christian. I'm still in the process of developing a workflow for my compositions and their production and it would be good to see how others do it.
Nipsey Hussle, Lindsey Stirling, Alex Boye... These are all independent artists who have made money through the release of their own music independently. They have niche fan followings and the size of those fandoms can grow to be huge. Going independent from what I can understand (at least in the musical worlds of hip hop, pop, and alternative) means that you will have to do a lot of the ground work yourself. You will have to come up with a way to get your name and work out there. With that being said I think that the same thing would apply in a situation where media composers release their own music. You would have to catch the attention of a production company, or tv show, or film director, etc. yourself. I have no experience so I'm just speaking theoretically. Logically working it out as best I can with what I already know. This seems to make sense to me.
Fundamentally disagree with the £5000 amount, I say this as a signed artist with an album campaign that cost somewhere in the region of £60 000 so far, and will likely hit that 75000 marker by the life of the record. It does depend on the genre, but in the indie sphere if you are planning to take a record to radio globally and digital distro, that £5000 would be gone before the first single had even been released. Other than that really interesting take on things! Lovely stuff as always.
Wonderful information! In all actuality though Christian, I think you know that you have a major leg up on anything that a new artist would put out. With your loyal following, there are those (like myself) who will spend their money on anything creative that you put out there. The rest of us would love to know, does old-fashioned artist development and true A&R truly exist anymore?
Interesting interview; many thanks. I can't imagine being more interested in the PR than making the music, even though making (good) music is hard graft. Somebody said once, I think, the making of art must be a compulsion.
I'd say "fail cheaply" first. By that I mean, self produce a single or two. Put them out on TH-cam, Spotify, etc. See how they do. Do they get seen? Any traction at all? Fail at a small level to get your feet wet. Fine tune your art. It will need it. Once you have the art in place that has an audience, then move up in your plans. It's easy to make a small fortune in the music business, all you have to do is start with a large fortune.
Thank-you for sharing this journey. Your clarity and honesty should help those of us that are currently frustrated trying to get straight answers to straightforward questions. We may also discover answers to questions that we didn't know that we needed to ask! Great stuff :-)
I'm reminded of Marillion, relatively recently, saying that they never made any proper money until they ditched the record label and did it all themselves. Prince said something similar, too.
Hi Christian I went down that route last year and totally self produced two albums (copies sent to you at Spitfire down the back of a radiator in your old offices). It was a fascinating experience. My only comment is If you are serious about being "successful" why don't you play to your strengths. You write brilliant orchestral music and produce all the tools to do that. Why would you want to produce music on a system which at best produces random phrases and involves as much luck as expertise (bit tongue in cheek - lots of cheek).I found out that the audience for the music I want to make is a bit different to Adele's........... Either way good luck with your project.
What I absolutely don’t like about this video is how it points out - with razor sharp arguments- something that I have been trying to ignore: the fact that I have been at this music thing for 20 years without any measurable success means ”I don’t have it”. Cue ’Loser’ by Beck. :-)
Fantastic interview, thanks so much for sharing it. Really interesting the point about crossing over from making art for art to making art to order. I was talking to some people about some of the newer production music libraries, and apparently they are getting more receptive to signing "names" for exactly the reason Will said - if they can say to a director, "oh the person who wrote this track has these albums out and had this cool write up in *hip music blog de jour*", it's suddenly a much more attractive sell. Check out Thomas Ragsdale for an expert in blending music for Production, Picture and Art.
Great interview, I'm currently trying to get an album of songs together with a friend having started as a songwriter so this is fascinating to me. Maybe you should start Christian by making two or three pieces to get a feel for what works and what direction to take rather than put too much pressure on yourself with having to come up with a single.
I had a little success with a pop rnb song I sang on a few years back (like over 150K plays) but it's still only like a few hundred bucks worth of spotify revenue total. It's all about finding an aggregator and getting them to post it on their channel. The good news is that it's only like $15 a song to publish it on spotify if you use CD baby.
If you think of a self-released album as (at minimum) a BUSINESS CARD, everything else is gravy. Presuming one doesn't lose their arse $$-wise, in producing it (and getting it "out there").
But what why I create? Is it that you’re bored, is it that you need something to do that fills your time and something to look forward too? If only one person heard your track or the album would that be enough? With the ocean of music around us will one more drop make a difference to anyone? These are the questions, now at the age of 58, that trouble me and make long for the time when I was full of motivation and ambition.
Hey Christian you might have already thought of this but I figured I should mention it just in case. A fun way to promote your music in the modern world of TH-cam is to do collaborations with other artists of a similar level or with artists you can be of benefit to. I know that some TH-cam artists are very open about connecting and collaborating if it seems mutually beneficial. For example I’ve been working with a hugely successful youtuber named Andrew Huang on some of his recent music. I have a set of skills that he doesn’t currently have and he loves what I do with his music so that turns into about 120K people hearing my name on any work I do with him. My channel has only about 20K subs. If you’re willing to collaborate with other artists you may be able to drive significant traffic to your new original music.
I have made the most money with cover versions, not with my own music. Arrangements of famous songs can help to break through on Spotify (one time I made it on an editorial playlist) and maybe then some people discover your own music.
That’s interesting do you need permission from the rights holder? Did you know that if you do new arrangements of music that is in public domain you then earn those publishing rights as arranger?
@@TheCrowHillCo Yes, I need a mechanical license for the arrangement, but the price for the license is affordable. I pay the fee for a mechanical license and can publish then the song with a distributor like CD Baby on all streaming platforms. Usually I arrange contemporary songs, because with old songs (public domain) or classical music you can not generate any traffic. This might sound a bit disillusioned, but at my age (51) you start to become realistic :-)
It seems a little recherche to use the term 'album' (unless you intend to release a 33-rpm 12" or cassette) when the 'digital' market has fragmented the old, monolithic model of a glob of flat plastic in a cardboard sleeve being sent to high-street shops. Living in a rural area when I was a record buying teen meant a long hitch hike to a nearby city to skim through second-hand record shops stock of worn, scratchy (but not too scratchy) works of interest.. a days effort for 2-5 albums. Now I can hear many of the same recordings on-line and, of course, so many more from.. the entire world. I guess the old (pre-internet) music industry could allow artistic freedom for some established artists, whilst the majority of signed acts only made enough to pay back their advances. My point is why do you want to make money when you can keep artistic freedom. Even if you were to make some money would it be enough to thrive? Would it be the only source of income? I have a part-time job and can spend my free time on music, perhaps there is a mode of living that would allow everyone to thrive, whilst only working 20 hrs or less per week.. after all 7+ billion humans would need some time to themselves just to listen to 1-4 hours each others music per day. Bring music back to the heart of human community!
Very informative video Christian! I have been working for about 2 years now on my first EP which I'm looking at self releasing, so I will be following your journey very closely! I've read about and experimented with releasing my own music through publishing platforms like Routenote (to get them on Spotify/Apple Music etc.) to some succes, however my ultimate dream is to release the EP in limited numbers on Vinyl too. Do you already have any plans for a physical release, or anyone else in the comment section for that matter? Thanks in advance!
What about releasing an album of music that's perfectly cohesive as an artistic work, but also very useful as media music? That way, you have people that get introduced to it via exposure in multiple venues. An artist that I think is particularly adept at doing this is Ludovico Einaudi. He puts out lots of film scores, and albums. But his album material very often works its way into commercials. Or, do an album full of tracks like Penguin Cafe Orchestra's "Perpetuum Mobile." Or, Moby's "Porcelain."
I think if "they" haven't found you and wanted to sign you, manage you, etc, after you put your music online for people to listen to, then it could just mean that: 1) "They" aren't scouring the internet to find you unless maybe you already have a gazillion plays/streams or 2) you just don't have the marketable image that "they" are looking for. It doesn't necessarily prove that the music itself isn't good enough (although that could be still the case as well) If you are beyond a certain age, good luck being a pop or rock superstar. lol I also think there some game playing going on, where some artists are actually paying people to stream their music or videos to rig the number of plays, etc as part of the process in order to boost their number of plays/streams. Just sayin'
Hi Christian - very thought provoking. My take: I don't know why you're running away from what is demonstrably your core strength! You clearly have zero need to get 'out of the box' in order to write inspiring music based on computers (see every Spitfire contextual you've written - almost every one of which I would buy as an album). Wouldn't it be a good combination to write an album purely using Spitfire products? Promotion for Spitfire, and you writing in what is clearly your comfort zone? Let the tension come from the sus chord, rather than from life!
(Truth) Financial Ramifications in a committed Relationship where your partner pays Mortgage, and pension and hates EDM. I doubt that I will ever survive this tragedy GAS always wins.
Great interview, but why don't you have another Mike(lavalier) on yourself. I know you said it at the top bad quality. It seems odd a sound guy not thinking of that.
The lav thing is really difficult, the issue here is with the room which has a terrible acoustic and the fact that I'm talking too much... With only two channels (or two cameras) two lavs would be risky if one went down we'd lose the whole interview by having a lav mic on the contributor and me sitting next to a room mic means we have safe coverage. I think its worth noting that these are done by myself, so I'm running sound, camera and interviewing in between meetings during massively busy days at Spitfire. I hope you agree that it is worth getting this content albeit in a somewhat guerrilla manner! Would be interested to see how you feel about an upcoming interview where I use the same technique but in a much tighter room? Keep an eye out for it.
@@TheCrowHillCo it really wasn't a criticism as such just curious to know why. I know you are very busy etc. I just wonder how TV interviews are done. It seemed like your voice was being picked up by his lavalier. I was listening on my phone with cheap earphones and it was really hard to hear your questions. I really am not trying to troll you heaven forbid. I regularly listen to your vlogs and they are very informative. Keep up the good work. My intention was not to upset you. You are probably still raw after the troll event.
Interesting conversation, however none of it actually answered the question "Can You Make Money Out Of Releasing Your Own Music?". You spent time talking about the costs involved but not about actual revenue. Saying theat Peter & Kerry get "hundreds of thousands of listens every month" on Spotify still doesn't answer the question. How much does this pay out, as unless these numbers are sustained over a considerable period, I'm not sure they are enough to make a living.
At 3:25 he asks the question if self publishing is viable and if it will make money and the guy says yes, which then sparks the entire conversation for the rest of the video. While they don't say specific numbers obviously that's because it would vary drastically depending on the level of success, the video is a discussion on the possibility of achieving that success on your own, which they answered pretty well. 😊
This is soo good I would actually pay for this knowledge,I'm learning bit by bitcan't wait for your next videoas all great minds do , take action on this knowledge guys,
Lol "Modular Monday", c'mon show us the new case. Are you going to Superbooth? Also, I don't think anyone cares about album releases anymore, artists are better off releasing singles and getting gigs if you ask me (not talking about worldwide A-list artists here)
Thanks for the mention 🙏 and yes, I love Bandcamp! It’s free and it’s a great way for your fans to listen/buy your music.
Agreed! Bandcamp and the people on there are fantastic! ♥
Bandcamp is great, and I use it all the time to support friends. I know what you mean, that it's free to set up and maintain an artist account (I have done so for nearly 10 years), but 10-15% of your revenue on the back end is not "free", it's the lesser evil. And then there are the payment system fees, paypal/visa/etc.
you prolly dont care at all but does someone know of a method to log back into an Instagram account..?
I was stupid forgot the login password. I would love any help you can give me.
I've been successful in the trailer music world and have been bit by the modular bug 3 years ago. It was definitely a result of burn out, mid life crisis, and the need to to try something truly artistic. I finished my first album last year and released it myself. Creating the album was one of the most artistically rewarding experiences of my life. Promoting the album was the most frustrating and worse experiences of my life. I posted it to all the modular groups, joined Meetup groups, and even tried to cross promote to the Epic music fans that I have in the TH-cam community. So far, nobody cares. Some of my dearest friends who are also colleagues still have not even listened to the album! I've learned a lot about the entire experience and I'll share a few of the things. For one, I don't tour. I'm still very busy in my media gig and cannot take time away by touring. Two, epic music fans don't give a shit about modular. Three, the modular community is full of hobbyists who are now enabled to easily realize their own musical ideas, so basically they don't care about seeking out other modular music. Four, I refuse to show my gear in my TH-cam videos because I think it's fucking stupid and boring to watch. Five, modular people only care about seeing the gear in modular videos. Six, self promoting is extremely time consuming. I'm a prolific composer and would rather write more music. Seven, the biggest modular talents still have daytime jobs either creating sound for electric Jaguars or touring with Nine Inch Nails. Seems like the entire thing is a failure but to me it's still a huge success. I've finally learned what I've heard my entire career but never truly understood until now and that is "It's not about the gear" what makes me unique is the ability to combine many different elements which includes using the computer as an instrument, my unique way of playing guitar, synthesis, and how to utilize outboard modular synths. It has made my media work 10times more unique and has taught me a lot about production and engineering. For me the most important thing about the entire venture was to grow as an artist. I believe I have achieved that, however, moving forward I will gladly employ the computer and live instruments:) getting outside of the box is a wonderful way to invigorate creativity, but if you want to make a living, you need to also master the computer.
I would definitely recommend making an EP, or at least a shorter album than say 12 tracks. In 2011 I released a 10-track album and the play counts on each track go down the further down the track list you go (so the first track has the most plays, second has less, third less than second and so on). I think a lot less people listen to entire albums front-to-back nowadays. People might have a shorter attention span, or less time to dedicate to an artist they've never heard of before. So I if you want to grab their attention and keep it, I would either release a few singles first a month apart; or for an album, a 7 or 8-track one that starts with a killer track. Last year I released a 30-minute 7-track album with another band and the analytics show that more people listened to the whole album. Granted, those numbers are small - we're a relatively unknown indie band, but I thought I'd give you my two cents!
This channel is my favorite on TH-cam today. How you’re not as big as Rick Beato is beyond me. Maybe you could try a “What Makes This Score Great” series hahaha
I think one of the main reasons is that Christian started this a lot later. I bet he'll double his viewership in the next 3 months, and again in 6 months, and again...
What makes this score great?? I’d watch that all day long, man
After three albums I stopped releasing them as nobody was interested / bought any. Now I make library music I really like, make some money and I'm much happier.
How did you get into library music production? Very interested in this path and I think my music would be suitable, being very inclined toward an atmospheric/ambient/incidental/furniture aesthetic.
Thanks for the very kind shoutout, Sir. Looking forward to your adventures! M
I love that you just don't give a damn in public, monologue everywhere! Good man!
It's amazing but it gives me serious anxiety to watch it.
Hi Christan
I have been following you and spitfire for about a year, and I just want to thank you.
You really provide some truly valuable information. I love your candour and I’m a big fan of the spitfire products.
So thank you and keep uploading.
Michael
Will’s commentary is some of the best melding of the soul & business of music I’ve heard in awhile. I’d love to hear more from him
Absolutely great episode. More of this please!
*Looks sheepishly at the 23 minute song I'm writing*
ha ha ha ha!
amazing episode, in my opinion this kind of content here in youtube are amazing, and then help me to understand a lot of thing in the music/business world! Thanks so much, a fan fro Italy!!
Interesting as always. Me. I have a 3 piece band, we perform our own music, we record albums, put them on Spotify and all that stuff. We have never tried to get signed we just enjoy what we do. We don't think about the business, were in our 50's and we have a good time doing what we do. I'm just getting into Logic and am going to make a solo album, because I can and I want to. The money and business side of things can suck the musical life out of you if it's all you focus on. Focus on making music, enjoy performing it live, record it, release it and be safe in the knowledge that nothing is going to happen, nothing is going to change. But so what, it's a great ride with good times to be had. My music isn't shit, it's really good, but so is millions of other people's music. Enjoy yourself, doing what you do.
The indie celtic bands I like use kickstarter and similar campaigns to fund their work. They usually have something like for $10 you get mp3s, for $20 you get a CD, for $30 you get a CD and a shirt. One of them had something like for $2000 you got a house party anywhere in their touring area.
Love the idea of this project.
I encourage anyone doing a YT channel having anything to do with music to include doing their own music as part of it. Isn't it the reason most of us are here?
Hi Christian, did you ever do a follow up to this? I'm guessing you've been too busy, but I for one would love to see the next chapter and more Q&As with Will on this topic. He has a wealth of information and seems like a genuinly nice guy too.
So it was procrastinating with your euro rack modular synth then ;)
This is pure gold, the truth and the light...awesome mate
LP Prices in Europe
1500-2000 EUR for pressing 300 LPs + 1 EUR for each copy surplus. Don't know the details about cover art, but b&w is obviously cheaper.
You could work with distributors directly, meaning they will buy, say 240 of 300 copies and distribute them to their partner shops\sites etc.
Now comes the interesting part: if you browse shops like Hardwax you can get the idea which records get promoted/hyped\sell well. The range is quite broad, but still some market awareness is needed. I'm just pointing out there are some gatekeepers if you want to sell anything, though by wedging your 30k subscribers you could sell some quantity. Again, if you decide either to starve your family and sell a bunch of stuff to release 300 copies or not, I'd say don't. If you're ready to spend 3-5k here and now and slowly recoup expenses over 2-3 years - do it.
Please re-check everything I say, because info might be obsolete or irrelevant for your particular case.
back to that f'kn cue I've being avoiding for 30 mins
Amazing interview, really insightful - thank you!
Wow, Christian! Extremely, extremely useful...or like you said "gold dust". Thank you so much for this...and your drive and passion!
Thanks Christian for this insight.
As most of us here are pretty much the same in what we do, make music and want people to hear that music, it is a lot easier now days to get heard without using record companies like you say.
The funny thing that I have noticed after composing music for years is, I am writing the exact kind of music that I want to hear. We all do that, and i'm not being weird or big headed but I could listen to my own music all day long.
All we have to do is get other people that like the same style as we do to hear it.
My 'bedroom' music that I write is just that. Not for anyone else but just me but when it's written, I put it on TH-cam and Soundcloud cos I want others to hear what I have created.
I think that is what we all do and we all hope that we get more and more listeners that want to hear more and more of our music then if that happens then we get bigger and bigger.
I hope this makes sense lol
Such an incredible interview, great advice. Looking forward to the coming project! It would be interesting to hear you talk sometime about this in connection to being a media composer. I.e. how/can making an e.p. Or album on your own help with promotion and using it to get more traction as a starting composer. Love your videos mate!
Yes, this is something I want to discover also.... maybe I should interview someone who has come in from that route?
Excellent to hear, quite late in and unexpectedly, about Christian's love of "Green Onions". I think on balance that's my all-time number 1, too.
great content as always. Enjoyed the conversation. Just knowing that its possible to make a decent living and not have to be a super star doing something you love, is very inspiring and motivating.
Four track EP on Vinyl. Do-able, promotable, sellable. Great calling card for media jobs. (I'm going to do one as well - been thinking about it for a while)
It may not be what was intended but the message I’ve taken from the Modular Mondays series is that we should break out of our creative comfort zones and try new things.
I spend my late teens/early 20s making below average, derivative music with guitars, effects pedals, drum machines, multi-track tape recorders etc. In the last year or so I’ve started making music on computers and I’m far happier with the music I create now.
Omg, seriously, you're brilliant. Great presentation, but the thoughts behind this video are fantastic. I'm truly excited to see this. I'm currently writing an album I wish to self release and you've voiced my own concerns. Those of us in the band, of which there are three, live very far away from each other, so touring isn't an option. This is a studio album project only. Thank you so much for all of your effort. Well done.
Thanks for reminding me about Peter and Kerry! I was on the same bill as them years ago. Great band. Great songs.
Thanks for the interview. I especially enjoyed the "if you haven't been found, you haven't got it" quote.
I know a lot of people who hope to get discovered by a super proactive manager so that they can just get on with making music. Truth is the real inspired geniuses who are able to do that is a handful per generation :) everyone else has to get stuck into pushing themselves and self marketing. (Unfortunately I'm not very good at that part myself haha).
Fascinating conversation, looking forward to seeing the rest of your journey.
really good discussion, Christian, with some excellent home truths from Will, which gave me that jolt of recognition. But a few things:
1) Can you really not afford another lav for yourself? Sound quality and audibility would improve massively.
2) How can you possibly position a brand new Moog right in the middle of the shot and taunt us with it by not even mentioning it????
3) excellent advice on going for a few tracks first. A whole album is a monumental undertaking, and surely getting a feel for it with an achievable goal of perhaps a single with some b sides would be a much more manageable goal.
Anyway, will be fascinating journey. Good on you for setting it up and taking us along with you.
1. Yeah the lav thing is really difficult, the issue here is with the room and the fact that I'm talking too much... With only two channels (or two cameras) two lavs would be risky if one went down we'd lose the interview by having a lav mic on the contributor and me sitting next to a room mic that means we have safe coverage. I think its worth noting that these are done by myself, so I'm running sound, camera and interviewing in between meetings during massively busy days at Spitfire. I hope you agree that it is worth getting this content albeit in a somewhat guerrilla manner! Would be interested to see how you feel about an upcoming interview where I use the same technique but in a much tighter room?
2. Its Will's I'll ask him for you next time!
3. Yeah I agree. I think investing so much into something that is a totally new enterprise is poor business.
@@TheCrowHillCo I totally appreciate what you are doing, Christian, and I understand how demanding it is to do everything on a shoot - camera, sound and interviewing. I respect anyone who can cope with all of that and produce good content as you do. Doing sound is of course tricky when you cannot be constantly monitoring it.
Myself, I have good enough equipment which I trust and know very well, so I would take the risk and use two lavs, which are very reliable. What I would do if I couldn't monitor it, is have the meters in line of sight (from a small external mixer) so I could reassure myself that the levels are healthy and registering a signal (after double checking before starting). An alternative to this, if you want to use one boom mic and one lav, is to simply have the boom on a stand or near enough to you so that you don't get so much room sound. Or, if having a backup is your concern, use the two lavs, going into the camera, and have a backup handheld recorder positioned between you, maybe out of sight below the desk. If you had to use this emergency backup you could easily sync it with the existing audio. In a much tighter room, that will definitely help the camera mic, but it is more important where it is in relation to you, could you take it off the camera, put it on a little portable stand pointing up towards you?
Failing that, why not just get somebody to come along and help you, and take some of that weight off your shoulders? After all, it is really worth it when you are getting such good content. My experience is that single shooters are so relieved when they get a bit of help, they can then really focus on the content.
Whatever you do, good luck with it.
PS Dying to find out how that Moog is - don't tell me you didn't have a play with it!
Absolutely fantastic interview Christian - inspiring, fascinating. Just brilliant.
Just started my YT channel and you are a great inspiration, thank you.
Great video! So interesting. Can't wait to see more of this journey and to eventually hear your track/EP/album 👍
Nearly around a year ago, and still a beginner in the world of media composition, I released the single off my very first album, which came out the next month, just in time for the event the music contained within was written for. At the end of 2018, I released my 2nd album, this one was totally an album I wrote for myself, unlike the aforementioned 1st one, which was written to a script. In between these two releases, I released the soundtrack for an indie web based game. I am incredibly terrible at marketing myself, and that is why I can get just a handful of Spotify listeners per month.
A thing I did with my 1st album, but not with the 2nd one, was releasing it also as a physical CD, which proved to be a disastrous idea: out of 100 copies I had made, I have sold about 15, I believe. Yes, one may call me old-fashioned, but I find there is something fascinating in holding something physical in my hands. However, I did learn the lesson.
Whether it was the right time to release albums, I cannot say, but I felt the urge of doing it and so I did. It was satisfying, and still is
Really excellent video, many thanks to Will and yourself Christian! Cheers
Great episode, look forward to being taken through the process. Thank you
Excellent as always CH! I found Will's interview thought provoking. It's great to hear things from the other side of the coin particularly when they come from someone with such a broad background. I'm early on my own similar journey and I figured that I'd worry about the business end of things when reach that bridge. I'm so glad to hear Will echo that thought. Now I have someone to blame!
I'm really looking forward to seeing how you approach this Christian. I'm still in the process of developing a workflow for my compositions and their production and it would be good to see how others do it.
Nipsey Hussle, Lindsey Stirling, Alex Boye... These are all independent artists who have made money through the release of their own music independently. They have niche fan followings and the size of those fandoms can grow to be huge. Going independent from what I can understand (at least in the musical worlds of hip hop, pop, and alternative) means that you will have to do a lot of the ground work yourself. You will have to come up with a way to get your name and work out there.
With that being said I think that the same thing would apply in a situation where media composers release their own music. You would have to catch the attention of a production company, or tv show, or film director, etc. yourself. I have no experience so I'm just speaking theoretically. Logically working it out as best I can with what I already know. This seems to make sense to me.
Fundamentally disagree with the £5000 amount, I say this as a signed artist with an album campaign that cost somewhere in the region of £60 000 so far, and will likely hit that 75000 marker by the life of the record.
It does depend on the genre, but in the indie sphere if you are planning to take a record to radio globally and digital distro, that £5000 would be gone before the first single had even been released.
Other than that really interesting take on things! Lovely stuff as always.
Wonderful information! In all actuality though Christian, I think you know that you have a major leg up on anything that a new artist would put out. With your loyal following, there are those (like myself) who will spend their money on anything creative that you put out there. The rest of us would love to know, does old-fashioned artist development and true A&R truly exist anymore?
Interesting interview; many thanks. I can't imagine being more interested in the PR than making the music, even though making (good) music is hard graft. Somebody said once, I think, the making of art must be a compulsion.
I'd say "fail cheaply" first. By that I mean, self produce a single or two. Put them out on TH-cam, Spotify, etc. See how they do. Do they get seen? Any traction at all? Fail at a small level to get your feet wet. Fine tune your art. It will need it. Once you have the art in place that has an audience, then move up in your plans. It's easy to make a small fortune in the music business, all you have to do is start with a large fortune.
Amazing insights! Some really helpful advice, especially what to focus on....just the album, shut everything else off :-)
Thank-you for sharing this journey. Your clarity and honesty should help those of us that are currently frustrated trying to get straight answers to straightforward questions. We may also discover answers to questions that we didn't know that we needed to ask!
Great stuff :-)
Love it Christian! Good luck on your journey 😁
Your videos are always amazing! Keep doing it Christian!
I'm reminded of Marillion, relatively recently, saying that they never made any proper money until they ditched the record label and did it all themselves. Prince said something similar, too.
Such a good video! Thanks for this. Very insightful. Really looking forward to see where you're going with this
Absolute gold bricks Christian!
this is indeed inspiring and helpful. Thanks!
Great stuff again. I think this series will be 'compulsive viewing' for a lot of people.
Hi Christian I went down that route last year and totally self produced two albums (copies sent to you at Spitfire down the back of a radiator in your old offices). It was a fascinating experience. My only comment is If you are serious about being "successful" why don't you play to your strengths. You write brilliant orchestral music and produce all the tools to do that. Why would you want to produce music on a system which at best produces random phrases and involves as much luck as expertise (bit tongue in cheek - lots of cheek).I found out that the audience for the music I want to make is a bit different to Adele's........... Either way good luck with your project.
What I absolutely don’t like about this video is how it points out - with razor sharp arguments- something that I have been trying to ignore: the fact that I have been at this music thing for 20 years without any measurable success means ”I don’t have it”. Cue ’Loser’ by Beck. :-)
Fantastic interview, thanks so much for sharing it. Really interesting the point about crossing over from making art for art to making art to order. I was talking to some people about some of the newer production music libraries, and apparently they are getting more receptive to signing "names" for exactly the reason Will said - if they can say to a director, "oh the person who wrote this track has these albums out and had this cool write up in *hip music blog de jour*", it's suddenly a much more attractive sell. Check out Thomas Ragsdale for an expert in blending music for Production, Picture and Art.
Fascinating and brilliantly helpful! Thanks for the advice and encouragement.
Not knowing Will, I am very confident in in the future of Spitfire because of this interview, thanksChristian
Great interview, I'm currently trying to get an album of songs together with a friend having started as a songwriter so this is fascinating to me. Maybe you should start Christian by making two or three pieces to get a feel for what works and what direction to take rather than put too much pressure on yourself with having to come up with a single.
I had a little success with a pop rnb song I sang on a few years back (like over 150K plays) but it's still only like a few hundred bucks worth of spotify revenue total. It's all about finding an aggregator and getting them to post it on their channel. The good news is that it's only like $15 a song to publish it on spotify if you use CD baby.
This is BEYOND-helpful guidance. Thank you for this!
If you think of a self-released album as (at minimum) a BUSINESS CARD, everything else is gravy. Presuming one doesn't lose their arse $$-wise, in producing it (and getting it "out there").
This is one of the most lateral distilling of a very complex set of questions. Wow
But what why I create? Is it that you’re bored, is it that you need something to do that fills your time and something to look forward too? If only one person heard your track or the album would that be enough? With the ocean of music around us will one more drop make a difference to anyone? These are the questions, now at the age of 58, that trouble me and make long for the time when I was full of motivation and ambition.
Thanks so much for that awesome video I also have a vision of my music so this has just helped me a lot see things through a bit more I guess
Thanks
This is great knowledge here, thank you🙏🙏🙏
Amazing to get this insight. Thank you
On time..working on this currently...
Love to follow this!
very interesting - great stuff, thanks!
Hey Christian you might have already thought of this but I figured I should mention it just in case. A fun way to promote your music in the modern world of TH-cam is to do collaborations with other artists of a similar level or with artists you can be of benefit to. I know that some TH-cam artists are very open about connecting and collaborating if it seems mutually beneficial. For example I’ve been working with a hugely successful youtuber named Andrew Huang on some of his recent music. I have a set of skills that he doesn’t currently have and he loves what I do with his music so that turns into about 120K people hearing my name on any work I do with him. My channel has only about 20K subs. If you’re willing to collaborate with other artists you may be able to drive significant traffic to your new original music.
Thank you, great video!
I have made the most money with cover versions, not with my own music. Arrangements of famous songs can help to break through on Spotify (one time I made it on an editorial playlist) and maybe then some people discover your own music.
That’s interesting do you need permission from the rights holder? Did you know that if you do new arrangements of music that is in public domain you then earn those publishing rights as arranger?
@@TheCrowHillCo Yes, I need a mechanical license for the arrangement, but the price for the license is affordable. I pay the fee for a mechanical license and can publish then the song with a distributor like CD Baby on all streaming platforms. Usually I arrange contemporary songs, because with old songs (public domain) or classical music you can not generate any traffic. This might sound a bit disillusioned, but at my age (51) you start to become realistic :-)
It was a bit hard to watch the first scene from the train station because of the sound quality. Good interview!
Yeah sorry about that, very omni mic, I did what I could with noise reduction!
As usual - great content - but WHY am I so distracted by that tiny spec of lint on the dark blue shirt????
It seems a little recherche to use the term 'album' (unless you intend to release a 33-rpm 12" or cassette) when the 'digital' market has fragmented the old, monolithic model of a glob of flat plastic in a cardboard sleeve being sent to high-street shops.
Living in a rural area when I was a record buying teen meant a long hitch hike to a nearby city to skim through second-hand record shops stock of worn, scratchy (but not too scratchy) works of interest.. a days effort for 2-5 albums. Now I can hear many of the same recordings on-line and, of course, so many more from.. the entire world.
I guess the old (pre-internet) music industry could allow artistic freedom for some established artists, whilst the majority of signed acts only made enough to pay back their advances.
My point is why do you want to make money when you can keep artistic freedom. Even if you were to make some money would it be enough to thrive? Would it be the only source of income?
I have a part-time job and can spend my free time on music, perhaps there is a mode of living that would allow everyone to thrive, whilst only working 20 hrs or less per week.. after all 7+ billion humans would need some time to themselves just to listen to 1-4 hours each others music per day. Bring music back to the heart of human community!
Very informative video Christian! I have been working for about 2 years now on my first EP which I'm looking at self releasing, so I will be following your journey very closely!
I've read about and experimented with releasing my own music through publishing platforms like Routenote (to get them on Spotify/Apple Music etc.) to some succes, however my ultimate dream is to release the EP in limited numbers on Vinyl too. Do you already have any plans for a physical release, or anyone else in the comment section for that matter? Thanks in advance!
You are hilarious!!! I am really enjoying your channel!
What about releasing an album of music that's perfectly cohesive as an artistic work, but also very useful as media music? That way, you have people that get introduced to it via exposure in multiple venues. An artist that I think is particularly adept at doing this is Ludovico Einaudi. He puts out lots of film scores, and albums. But his album material very often works its way into commercials. Or, do an album full of tracks like Penguin Cafe Orchestra's "Perpetuum Mobile." Or, Moby's "Porcelain."
Lee Blaske it’s a good idea, I kind of already do that on library releases that you can buy on iTuunes or indeed license for TV work.
I don't know how i thought the Spitifire CEO would look like, but Im pretty sure i didn't think he would look like a math teacher
so excited by this :)
Great as always! Just wished you'd used a mic - was struggling a few times tbh
Wondered why you were talking about artists not having elan and then realised you were talking about A&R! D'oh!
I think if "they" haven't found you and wanted to sign you, manage you, etc, after you put your music online for people to listen to, then it could just mean that: 1) "They" aren't scouring the internet to find you unless maybe you already have a gazillion plays/streams or 2) you just don't have the marketable image that "they" are looking for. It doesn't necessarily prove that the music itself isn't good enough (although that could be still the case as well) If you are beyond a certain age, good luck being a pop or rock superstar. lol I also think there some game playing going on, where some artists are actually paying people to stream their music or videos to rig the number of plays, etc as part of the process in order to boost their number of plays/streams. Just sayin'
Brilliant channel.
All this time I thought you were the CEO. LOL Looking forward to your first single!
Mark Davenport I’m one of the founders. Paul Thomson is the other Will became our CEO last year.
Hi Christian - very thought provoking. My take: I don't know why you're running away from what is demonstrably your core strength! You clearly have zero need to get 'out of the box' in order to write inspiring music based on computers (see every Spitfire contextual you've written - almost every one of which I would buy as an album). Wouldn't it be a good combination to write an album purely using Spitfire products? Promotion for Spitfire, and you writing in what is clearly your comfort zone? Let the tension come from the sus chord, rather than from life!
Pure gold!!!
Have you considered putting subtitles into this because the audio is beyond the "Auto"s capacity
just taking your Lamond case for a lil train ride?
Thank you.
wat a stylish man
Moog and lps.... Excellent👍
If you build it, they will come. 🐸
(Truth) Financial Ramifications in a committed Relationship where your partner pays Mortgage, and pension and hates EDM. I doubt that I will ever survive this tragedy GAS always wins.
Great interview, but why don't you have another Mike(lavalier) on yourself. I know you said it at the top bad quality. It seems odd a sound guy not thinking of that.
The lav thing is really difficult, the issue here is with the room which has a terrible acoustic and the fact that I'm talking too much... With only two channels (or two cameras) two lavs would be risky if one went down we'd lose the whole interview by having a lav mic on the contributor and me sitting next to a room mic means we have safe coverage. I think its worth noting that these are done by myself, so I'm running sound, camera and interviewing in between meetings during massively busy days at Spitfire. I hope you agree that it is worth getting this content albeit in a somewhat guerrilla manner! Would be interested to see how you feel about an upcoming interview where I use the same technique but in a much tighter room? Keep an eye out for it.
@@TheCrowHillCo it really wasn't a criticism as such just curious to know why. I know you are very busy etc. I just wonder how TV interviews are done. It seemed like your voice was being picked up by his lavalier. I was listening on my phone with cheap earphones and it was really hard to hear your questions.
I really am not trying to troll you heaven forbid.
I regularly listen to your vlogs and they are very informative.
Keep up the good work.
My intention was not to upset you. You are probably still raw after the troll event.
Interesting conversation, however none of it actually answered the question "Can You Make Money Out Of Releasing Your Own Music?". You spent time talking about the costs involved but not about actual revenue. Saying theat Peter & Kerry get "hundreds of thousands of listens every month" on Spotify still doesn't answer the question. How much does this pay out, as unless these numbers are sustained over a considerable period, I'm not sure they are enough to make a living.
At 3:25 he asks the question if self publishing is viable and if it will make money and the guy says yes, which then sparks the entire conversation for the rest of the video.
While they don't say specific numbers obviously that's because it would vary drastically depending on the level of success, the video is a discussion on the possibility of achieving that success on your own, which they answered pretty well. 😊
This is soo good I would actually pay for this knowledge,I'm learning bit by bitcan't wait for your next videoas all great minds do , take action on this knowledge guys,
any update on your album?
Lol "Modular Monday", c'mon show us the new case. Are you going to Superbooth? Also, I don't think anyone cares about album releases anymore, artists are better off releasing singles and getting gigs if you ask me (not talking about worldwide A-list artists here)
Can I have Will come and sit in the corner of my writing room for the rest of time?
For reassurance, not because I’m a creep. Just to be clear.
oh, too early for reading comment then.