Now, not to justify the artistic results of this cycle, (I have only heard the Espansiva), but here in Denmark, this cycle was a sensational prestige project (of course because of the label, even though they, as you say, problaby hasn't contributed with anything) for the conductor, the orchestra and the danish cultural establishment in general. Fabio Luisi has at least been open about his relationship to Nielsens music during his time here in Denmark (not that that justifies a whole cycle). But in Denmark we are kind of proud to show our little Nielsen to the rest of the world (as with the New York cycle), so I am at least a little bit proud of this cycle even though the yellow label only is there for show. And the Danes out there will probably gonna agree with me, that Nielsen's music is in our musicians blood (as one, in my opinion, can hear in the Schønwandt cycle), like Dvorak in the Czech Republic, Tchaikovsky in Russia and so on, so they can play it with closed eyes, so we did at least kind of know, that if the results were gonna be bad, it wouldn't be our orchestra's fault so much as the conductor's. So as a Dane, I'm proud to see Nielsen's symphonies on the yellow label, with our national orchestra playing, but as a musician: Yes, that finale to the Espansiva takes forever.
@@LeotheK I'm with you with regards to the playing (as I said, the orchestra can play it in their sleep), but the sonics are sometimes a little mushy to my taste.
@@iankemp1131 Yes, but in my opinion, not to the point where it borders boredom, as in here. The only person I have heard get away with the slow tempo is Bernstein and even he speeds up right after the opening hymn and at the end.
The cycle has a pretty limited dynamic range for classical music so yes it's quite loud sounding throughout. For example this has a dynamic range of 10 where the Sir Colin Davis has a dynamic range of 15.
Thanks for this deeply detailed review. I value you because you're one of the few critics who actually knows his stuff and can explain why he likes or dislikes a particular recording. The "why," of course, is much more important than the mere "thumbs up" or "thumbs down." Keep on reviewing like this and I'll keep on listening.
Dave, I really, really wanted to like this recording, but for the reasons you mentioned, all that optimism fell flat on it's ... now on to the Classics Today merchandise shop, when will the hoodies be back in stock? 2XL in Navy. Two, please!!!!
Very interesting. Having read very enthusiastic reviews I ordered this. I've only just started listening (before hearing this video) and am so far very disappointed. Little feeling for the sense of forward motion that I expect in this music. Some time ago I obtained the Oramo set having heard your view on it - excellent - and I regret not waiting for your view on this new one.
What I find strange in what you say about Luisi's misinterpretation of the First Symphony's Third Movement is that Luisi is 100% sho'nuff Italian, and to any Italian ear, the words "allegro comodo" mean a cheerful but relaxed pace, a comfortable pace - that is what "comodo" literally means. It's also a fairly unusual direction, so when it turns up it has to be there for a reason. And yet you tell us that Luisi's speed was excessive. Just strange.
At least some of the loudness probably isn’t Luisi’s fault. I’ve listened to most of the performances, which I happen to mostly like, but what is clear is that everything is rather closely mic-ed, and on top of that there’s more dynamic range compression than in your average orchestral recording.
Yes, I've noticed that. I've done a DR analysis on Foobar2000 and I came out with a DR of 10, which is great... for a rock record, but rather low for Classical music that usually scores in the 14-18. I'm not opposed to some compression: I really love Kuchar on Brilliant and he also sounds rather loud, but this is a step beyond.
@@WyldRage Yes, unsurprising. In these recordings it doesn’t bother me too much, but at the same time I wonder why they chose to do it, as everything surely would have sounded better with a DR of 14-18.
I like complete cycles by orchestras/conductors but I'm skeptical when they are released all at once. I ignored Nézet-Séguin's Beethoven cycle (Chamber Orchestra of Europe / DG) because I have an illogical belief the cycle was hammered out too quickly and I think he is far too busy to be doing cycles. Same with the Sibelius cycle by Oslo/Mäkelä (Decca) and also because you warned us. For Nielsen, I just stick with San Francisco/Blomstedt (London) and Swedish Radio Symphony/Salonen (Sony) but now I'm going to check out Gibson. Nielsen's symphonies are just so remarkable and I listen to them often.
I saw Luisi conduct the Helios overture and the flute concerto last year with Philly (second half was Tchaikovsky 5). It’s my sense that he recognizes how great of a composer and orchestrator Nielsen is, wants to program him and make him more known, but should’ve stuck to the 4th and waited to do the other symphonies after he grows into these works.
So many lovely details,careful phrasing.Things that are right on the spot (opening bars of espansiva f.eks) and to a dane like me the heartwarming musicianship from all. They are different but certainly not uninteresting recordings. I look forward to the cd version which has not been subject to the hi res and sorround treatment..
I've heard only no.4 on CD but the sound quality is vastly improved over the ghastly Dolby Atmos streaming file I previously heard. The surround processing seems to have been done by an engineer that knows nada about classical recording and there were many sections in the set where it sounded suddenly as though the microphones were actually inside the instruments and the volume was turned up. It was disconcerting to hear sections of the symphonies suddenly "jump" into this close-up, unnatural audio condition, then revert, so that it seemed like a very obvious splice occurred. Example: The 2nd movement of no. 5 where when the slower fugal passage transitions to the opening material, the perspective jumps back drastically. Other examples where the microphones cause pain in the streaming files are the 2nd movement of no. 4 and the voice movement of no. 3. This can't help color one's response to some aspects of the performances, and hopefully, the remainder of the works also sound better on CD.
Overall, sounds like a rather mixed bag. Gramophone naturally was absolutely unstinting in its praise. The whole cycle is up on Qobuz in Hi-Res, so I’ll dip half a toe in eventually. Probably with No. 5 - only two movements to potentially dislike!
I bought the cycle based on a hearing of 4 (excellent) and 5 (slow finale doesn't bother me). After listening to the whole cycle, I tend to agree with Dave, but I think I enjoyed them a bit more than he did.
Dave, as usual you are right. I am listening to the wonderful Danacord 30 cd box 'Nielsen on Record' with historical recordings. The performances are more muscular with lean and mean textures. They sound fresh and special. Denmark had a great Nielsen tradition. It is a pity that music in this global world is losing its origin, and is becoming a marketing product.
Really too bad. As an ardent Nielsen fan, I ordered this cycle sight unseen--or "ear unheard." Now I wish I hadn''t. I'm always up for new takes on this composer, but from your description, Dave, Luisi doesn't seem to get it in most of these works. Oh well. Maybe I'll get to like these performances, but when it comes to this composer I tend to trust your judgment. Lesson learned: caveat emptor.
Now, not to justify the artistic results of this cycle, (I have only heard the Espansiva), but here in Denmark, this cycle was a sensational prestige project (of course because of the label, even though they, as you say, problaby hasn't contributed with anything) for the conductor, the orchestra and the danish cultural establishment in general. Fabio Luisi has at least been open about his relationship to Nielsens music during his time here in Denmark (not that that justifies a whole cycle). But in Denmark we are kind of proud to show our little Nielsen to the rest of the world (as with the New York cycle), so I am at least a little bit proud of this cycle even though the yellow label only is there for show. And the Danes out there will probably gonna agree with me, that Nielsen's music is in our musicians blood (as one, in my opinion, can hear in the Schønwandt cycle), like Dvorak in the Czech Republic, Tchaikovsky in Russia and so on, so they can play it with closed eyes, so we did at least kind of know, that if the results were gonna be bad, it wouldn't be our orchestra's fault so much as the conductor's. So as a Dane, I'm proud to see Nielsen's symphonies on the yellow label, with our national orchestra playing, but as a musician: Yes, that finale to the Espansiva takes forever.
I'm absolutely pleased with what I've heard so far of this cycle, very good sonics and playing.
Well, I suppose it is meant to be "expansive" .....
@@LeotheK I'm with you with regards to the playing (as I said, the orchestra can play it in their sleep), but the sonics are sometimes a little mushy to my taste.
@@iankemp1131 Yes, but in my opinion, not to the point where it borders boredom, as in here. The only person I have heard get away with the slow tempo is Bernstein and even he speeds up right after the opening hymn and at the end.
Been waiting on this 😊🙌🏻
Just read this on Slipped Disc: "Fabio Luisi’s DG box of Nielsen symphonies won the Gramophone recording of the year last night."
Oh dear.
The cycle has a pretty limited dynamic range for classical music so yes it's quite loud sounding throughout. For example this has a dynamic range of 10 where the Sir Colin Davis has a dynamic range of 15.
Thanks for this deeply detailed review. I value you because you're one of the few critics who actually knows his stuff and can explain why he likes or dislikes a particular recording. The "why," of course, is much more important than the mere "thumbs up" or "thumbs down." Keep on reviewing like this and I'll keep on listening.
Dave, I really, really wanted to like this recording, but for the reasons you mentioned, all that optimism fell flat on it's ... now on to the Classics Today merchandise shop, when will the hoodies be back in stock? 2XL in Navy. Two, please!!!!
I will look into it. Thanks for asking.
Very interesting. Having read very enthusiastic reviews I ordered this. I've only just started listening (before hearing this video) and am so far very disappointed. Little feeling for the sense of forward motion that I expect in this music. Some time ago I obtained the Oramo set having heard your view on it - excellent - and I regret not waiting for your view on this new one.
why access to subtitles is not available on this video.....?
I have no idea. I've never even seen a subtitle. I have no idea how they work or what anyone sees.
They are working; just click CC at the bottom of the video.
What I find strange in what you say about Luisi's misinterpretation of the First Symphony's Third Movement is that Luisi is 100% sho'nuff Italian, and to any Italian ear, the words "allegro comodo" mean a cheerful but relaxed pace, a comfortable pace - that is what "comodo" literally means. It's also a fairly unusual direction, so when it turns up it has to be there for a reason. And yet you tell us that Luisi's speed was excessive. Just strange.
Please, please, please give us something new to heed your T-Shirt's message asap! :)
That guillotine sound really drives home the "gratuitous noise" point.
Yes, my phone was nearby. That's my text tone.
At least some of the loudness probably isn’t Luisi’s fault. I’ve listened to most of the performances, which I happen to mostly like, but what is clear is that everything is rather closely mic-ed, and on top of that there’s more dynamic range compression than in your average orchestral recording.
Yes, I've noticed that. I've done a DR analysis on Foobar2000 and I came out with a DR of 10, which is great... for a rock record, but rather low for Classical music that usually scores in the 14-18.
I'm not opposed to some compression: I really love Kuchar on Brilliant and he also sounds rather loud, but this is a step beyond.
@@WyldRage Yes, unsurprising. In these recordings it doesn’t bother me too much, but at the same time I wonder why they chose to do it, as everything surely would have sounded better with a DR of 14-18.
I like complete cycles by orchestras/conductors but I'm skeptical when they are released all at once.
I ignored Nézet-Séguin's Beethoven cycle (Chamber Orchestra of Europe / DG) because I have an illogical belief the cycle was hammered out too quickly and I think he is far too busy to be doing cycles. Same with the Sibelius cycle by Oslo/Mäkelä (Decca) and also because you warned us.
For Nielsen, I just stick with San Francisco/Blomstedt (London) and Swedish Radio Symphony/Salonen (Sony) but now I'm going to check out Gibson.
Nielsen's symphonies are just so remarkable and I listen to them often.
Judging from the NYT, YN-S is awfully busy picking out his flashy designer podium wardrobe.
Any thoughts on the recent Blomstedt/Danish Nielsen album?
Do you mean the EMI cycle? That is quite old. Or is there a new Nielsen recording by Blomstedt?
There are two Blomstedt Nielsen cycles (Danish Radio, EMI, analogue; San Francisco, Decca, digital) and they’re both quite old
Jarvi? Any thoughts?
Yes, but that's a subject for another day.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Excellent! I look forward to it…
I saw Luisi conduct the Helios overture and the flute concerto last year with Philly (second half was Tchaikovsky 5).
It’s my sense that he recognizes how great of a composer and orchestrator Nielsen is, wants to program him and make him more known, but should’ve stuck to the 4th and waited to do the other symphonies after he grows into these works.
So many lovely details,careful phrasing.Things that are right on the spot (opening bars of espansiva f.eks) and to a dane like me the heartwarming musicianship from all. They are different but certainly not uninteresting recordings. I look forward to the cd version which has not been
subject to the hi res and sorround treatment..
I've heard only no.4 on CD but the sound quality is vastly improved over the ghastly Dolby Atmos streaming file I previously heard. The surround processing seems to have been done by an engineer that knows nada about classical recording and there were many sections in the set where it sounded suddenly as though the microphones were actually inside the instruments and the volume was turned up. It was disconcerting to hear sections of the symphonies suddenly "jump" into this close-up, unnatural audio condition, then revert, so that it seemed like a very obvious splice occurred. Example: The 2nd movement of no. 5 where when the slower fugal passage transitions to the opening material, the perspective jumps back drastically. Other examples where the microphones cause pain in the streaming files are the 2nd movement of no. 4 and the voice movement of no. 3. This can't help color one's response to some aspects of the performances, and hopefully, the remainder of the works also sound better on CD.
Overall, sounds like a rather mixed bag. Gramophone naturally was absolutely unstinting in its praise. The whole cycle is up on Qobuz in Hi-Res, so I’ll dip half a toe in eventually. Probably with No. 5 - only two movements to potentially dislike!
I bought the cycle based on a hearing of 4 (excellent) and 5 (slow finale doesn't bother me). After listening to the whole cycle, I tend to agree with Dave, but I think I enjoyed them a bit more than he did.
Dave, as usual you are right. I am listening to the wonderful Danacord 30 cd box 'Nielsen on Record' with historical recordings. The performances are more muscular with lean and mean textures. They sound fresh and special. Denmark had a great Nielsen tradition. It is a pity that music in this global world is losing its origin, and is becoming a marketing product.
Really too bad. As an ardent Nielsen fan, I ordered this cycle sight unseen--or "ear unheard." Now I wish I hadn''t. I'm always up for new takes on this composer, but from your description, Dave, Luisi doesn't seem to get it in most of these works. Oh well. Maybe I'll get to like these performances, but when it comes to this composer I tend to trust your judgment. Lesson learned: caveat emptor.