When my friends ask me the question about who is the bad guy in the Dream Smp, I always tell them that everyone is the bad guy. And when they tell me that Dream is the bad guy I say yes he is, but so is everyone else. The Dream smp is a server of Villains, but with most villains agree on a common enemy.
@@vanairnas exactly. And straight up lies about others. If you ask me This video isn’t an opinion someone actually has. This is an idea that someone tells people outside the fanbase just so they can go “wHEll ActuALlY!” But in actual actuallity its not supported by the story, the writers or even common sense. If you ask me.
As someone who watched all the lore Dream is the reason some people are even seen as villains. Technoblade destroying lmanburg was dreams fault. Everything is literally dreams fault. Tf do you mean everyone's a villain? Dreams clearly the only villain except for schlatt and kinda Wilbur.
"You just wanted power.But the thing about this world tommy, that good things dont happen to Heroes" -Technoblade 2020 Somehow I feel like Technoblade's qoute during Manberg and Pogtopia war to tommy is more applicable to Dream
@@Raggmopp-xl7yf no shit dream abused him his crime list consists of Child abuse, torture, causing emotional distress, murder, genocide , mass genocide, use of WMDs, necromancy, kidnapping, attempted murder, murder, identity theft, terrorism, RNG manipulation, mistreatment of a POW, destruction of public and private property , stalking of a minor, pubic nudity, nudity Infront of a minor, planned abduction, manipulation of a MP, Treason on 7 accounts, prison break and abuse of power. u really think tommy taking 2 of his lives will ammount to the trauma he put tommy, tubbo, ranboo and all of l'manburg throught
@@isabellemelvin7051 So did everyone else. It was a server of homicidal maniacs that sent the Admin over the edge when he invited them and gave them 3 rules. I'll say it again. Dream's Server, Dream's Rules. If they didn't like it they could leave.
i think that whoever’s perspective you watch is the “good guy” so if you watch quackity techno is an unbound anarchist that just wants chaos, while if you watch technos perspective, quackity is a tyrant obsessed with power, but because dream nearly never posts his perspective he is seen as the villain
I have watched all perspectives and made a video about this too and agreed with this youtuber that dream is the good guy he even said it him selves he does this for peace
@@fredar1217 sure bud if he don’t care then why would he say he doing all this stuff to get the people friends over objects of a game while he was helping build the prison
I love how you explained Dream's point of view and I honestly agree. Dream is not a villain but he's not a good guy, he was trying to find peace but he did do some horrible things to try and reach this goal.
@@yellow-ish4200 Tommy almost committing suicide, using people as test subjects, what ever the fuck is going on with ranboo, willing to kill literally anyone if he thinks it will benefit him
@@marlinazul7786 in addition I'm pretty sure that the actual dream wants that !cdream is the most irredeemable villain he can imagine. All of what !cdream says is there in order to make people hesitate, be manipulate and give him information or things they said that he can than use against them when the time is right. An easy example is that before he has been tortured that he claimed he "changed" and wouldn't do any harm to anyone if they forgave him and that he hopes they'll consider setting him free but when Tommy tried to use those claims against him when they were stuck together he let this phasade crack and admitted that he'll take revenge on anyone who wronged him starting with Tubbo etc.. The same way he used the revival book as a lavage but than admitted that he'll never use it to help any of Tommy's friends when it wasn't convenient anymore to claim otherwise. !cdream is MEANT to be the villain. He ist meant to be irredeemable through his actions and all the things he claims are his good intentions are there to bring people to hesitate and abusing the fact that the other people's obviously had done bad things too which is an easy thing to do with Tommy even so he actually always tried to do the same thing when he realized his mistakes, his friends are actually important to them and he tried to do better. Tommy is a perfect target because he has also done so much bad which is also a reason why not all people will be on his side and it's easier to turn people against him. Even those he trusted (like Tubbo) through other responsibilities. It's like the joker who abuses an already existing currupted police system. The curruption in the police is ALSO a problem but it's turned into a new extrem when it's being abused by the joker. !cDream isn't the only bad person on the server and he didn't deserve torture he just deserved and ENDING death (limbo is an awful concept but a great story device) so others are finally save from him. That's my take on him.
The Dream SMP lore summed up in 2 quotes: “Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's needs, but not every man's greed.” ― Mahatma Gandhi "The most dangerous creation of any society is the man who has nothing to lose." -James Baldwin
Dream is the embodiment of "The ends justify the means" Everything he ever did was for a peaceful end, but it led him down a less peaceful path to achieve it.
I agree with c!dream up until tommy exile part... Before that he was heavily misunderstood like everyone considered him as a villain when he didn't let c!tommy and Wilbur start independent country on c!Dream's land for drugs. When he blew up lmanberg it was considered as a evil act while when wilbur and techno(in the later part) blew up lmanberg it was poetic and agreed upon. While Wilbur and tommy literally tried to assassinate the rightfully elected president with "if they can't have it no one can" mentality! Like tubbo was killed by techno for starting a new gov that was considered as "not evil" this is just something I don't understand he literally created an evil by doing that. In the end it's all about pov. Dream's c! is so cryptic about everything and you don't get his pov so it's really hard to defend his actions! [NOTE]- I don't support his actions during the exile part torturing a child and killing tommy in the prison. And I understand that his c! is pure evil rn and he deserves to be in prison. But I like him out of the prison because the smp is so dull without him! Edit- still he is my fav c! now but for different reasons!
The points in exile of blowing up his stuff I can understand to a point but I think that part would have ended but we don't know because Tommy ran away. But there is a lesson to learn if you are going to destroy other people's things why should your not be destroyed. Not to mention most people point to Dream keeping Tommy's friends away as the main problem for the exile and dream didn't do that. He once made Tubbo not show up for Tommy's party that's it. As for killing Tommy in the prison, there is reasonable doubt that Dream had mentally snaps as the person who had destroyed Dream's life was stuck with him in the small space and berated him any time Dream reminded him that Tommy would be stuck with Dream for a week. Then after all that a cat got into the cell and Dream connected with something after being isolated for so long and Tommy went and killed the cat with his bare hands. Not to mention Tommy was talking about the Revival Book was not real the only thing keeping Dream alive. So, either Dream killed Tommy to prove a point or because his mind completely snapped and Dream doesn't remember killing Tommy at all. Not to make up reasons but at this point anyone who wants Dream's side of the story has to take everything the others say with the large grain of salt ever.
@@katyrjohnson1888 agree for the prison and exile. There are reasons, in prison Tommy would just get out after 7 days (or they thought so) and tell everyone that revival book isn't real and EVERYONE would belive his JUST words, becasue they always do. And the Dream would be dead. I think this is pretty good argument to try to prove that revival book is real and well how do you prove it with as much materials as Dream had at that moment also being chased by the time..... peopel are so blind, you just need some common sense to figure tihs out. And its even more true becasue if Dream really wanted to kill Tommy earlier (just for giggles) he would have done so in the first day. I still think Exile was a try to teach Tommy that what he always does "grief and stole" hurt others so Dream did that to Tommy to show him how it is.. (but that just a theory)
Unfortunately, there are some factual inaccuracies and things being glossed over right from the very first section. ~There was conflict on the server before Tommy arrived. See Dream stealing George's armor because he didn't like that he had better equipment, or the Joffrey Trials. ~Tommy didn't burn Ponk's lemon tree. Sapnap did that alone, after Ponk pranked his house. ~Dream actually endorsed Jschlatt's presidential campaign, and encouraged Quackity in private messages to do the same. He only helped Pogtopia from the shadows so that he could play both sides and make sure that L'Manberg was destroyed. After Dream fought with Techno against L'Manberg on the 16th, he admitted outright that he wanted chaos to win the whole time. ~Dream, along with Puffy, attempted to frame Tommy for multiple griefings before the exile conflict began. The damage Tommy did was also very small compared to what others on the server had done previously, considering the burned roof was a complete accident and he tried to put out the fires as soon as he noticed them. ~Good job glossing over the emotional and physical abuse in exile, which was so severe that Tommy became suicidal. ~Good job glossing over Dream's canonical murder of Mexican Dream. ~Good job glossing over Dream stealing the invitations to Tommy's beach party after intentionally getting his hopes up, all so he could pretend to be Tommy's only friend and make him dependent on him. ~Good job glossing over Dream admitting multiple times that he had *fun* making Tommy's life miserable. (Dude, exile was comic book levels of villainy. There are countless metas by abuse victims online describing how closely it matches their experiences. You can't spin Dream's actions there as anything other than cruel.) ~Dream didn't suddenly decide to destroy L'Manberg on Doomsday. He planned to do that from the very beginning. He admitted that he was only pretending to be Tubbo's friend the whole time so he could take the discs. ~Dream was showing signs of insanity long before he was tortured in Pandora's Vault. He killed Tommy simply to prove that the revive book was real and immediately declared himself a god. It was revealed in his latest lore video that he also murdered Vikkstar and Lazarbeam, two completely innocent people, so he could experiment on them before he went to prison. (I will say that what Quackity and Sam did was also horrible, and that two wrongs don't make a right.) Dream might have had good intentions once upon a time, but many of the greatest villains start out with good intentions. Evil is as evil does, and Dream's actions have become worse and worse as time passes. Until he expresses remorse for hurting others and makes an effort to change for the better, he is very solidly a villain.
It's sort of like hes a method actor or whatever they're called where he played the role so long that he doesn't realize he has become a different person. Although in the end peace usually was the result for a short time whenever Dream was the only enemy.
@@F3lipe-u8x Everyone has made mistakes, but the narrative very much frames Dream as a villain. Perhaps not the only villain, or even the most destructive - especially not in season 3 where he's mostly helpless. But he is still definitely a villain, even by his own admission. Hell, he basically called himself the Joker to Tommy's Batman in the disc war finale.
You did forget to add the part where C!Dream faked his own defeat. After the events of Jailbreak, C!Punz and C!Dream met up and talked. Turns out he never betrayed C!Dream and the plan was for him to have broken out ages ago.
You say that dream isn't a villain because all he wanted was peace but in fiction there are many compelling and great villains that are villains because they want peace they just do the wrong methods to make peace. So it is possible that dream is the villain this just gives him a good reason and makes him a compelling villain
I felt that a lot was left out. Dream had already started to go crazy before prison. He also manipulated Tubbo at the same time as Tommy. Saw a different video that described him as a sympathetic villan, I agree with that more.
Yes Dream are not the hero. But nőt the worst man. He has the idea of "greater good" and he wants a united server with any price. Tommy has nő reason for doing the things he did. He is griefing for fun. I know dream manipulated him but he had no other way.
@@barnabasszoke6499 I'm sorry, but putting Tommy on the same level as Dream or Quackity is... laughable. In what world is griefing and stealing, which every single person on the server *including Dream* has done, morally equal to: kidnapping, manipulation, torture, mass murder, targeted destruction of entire communities, and psychological abuse for personal amusement?
@@i.j.dragonfly3123 Tommy hesitated between his BEST friend and two items. Target destruction of entire communities? He didn't want to destroy the community he wanted to take back his own rightful land. Tommy: drug selling, griefing, living illegally somewhere, escaping from exile, trying to tell a person who trying to make a lawbreaking consequences. The only reason that Tommy didn't kill is that he is losing the real fights(Dream-Tommy duel, Tubbo+Tommy vs Dream). Dream didn't kidnap but tell me when did he if he did. Tommy did most of the stealing and griefing (You can say he gfriefed thrice but the first was on his own land bc L'Manberg wasnt independent yet.). Mass murder? Thats what war is about.
6:50 ok, there is no excuse that can be used to defend dream's actions during the exile. Dream made tommy stay at a certain place, follow rigid rules when the only rule that tommy should follow was not to enter in l'manburg. Dream burned tommy's items, didn't let tommy go to other places, manipulated him into thinking that no one liked him and in the end, he blew up everything that tommy built in the exile. Tommy almost killed himself during the exile.
Or you just missed the fact that dream blew everything tommy built BECAUSE tommy was hiding his valueable things withing dream knowing. And that's forbidden. You clearly didn't watch the video by the fact that dream burn tommys valueable items because he can use them to break rules and possibly kill him once he is geared up. He didin't let tommy to go in any places because he can run away and hide. And kill dream. It's basically just simple rules that he can follow. To put it simple -tommy can't go outside of his place -tommy must give his valueable items to dream for him to burn And pretty much that's it
@@cubeguy2844 okay... and how does "oh ctommy would kill him" and "oh ctommy could run away"(he could as long as he didn't enter in l'manburg) justifies the abuse that ctommy suffered from cdream? Cuz like we did NOT watch the same minecraft server for you to defend cdream's actions
This is very well made and the narration is really good! Dream's character never fails to impress/surprise me.. I hope you make more of these videos! :)
I think there is something that has to be mentioned: Dream essentially is a villain. His objective is morally good, but his actions aren't. Say you have a child, and you cannot afford enough food and money to live. Murdering the child would certainly solve the problem (legal consequences aside), but is it morally okay? Or are you the villain? Up until the first war for independence, I would have agreed, but his strive for control make him corrupt and a bad person. Dream essentially is a greater example of what Sam has been doing.
Nice argument though it skips over a few finer points like what's up with Ranboo and the issue of the egg. However it's possible that Dream at least started out with this purpose in mind. I think a parallel can be drawn between this idea of Dream and what's happened to Sam. In fact I think this theme happens to a lot of the characters so it makes sense that Dream's character would be one. I would add an argument for the whole "power corrupts" idea in that Dream power as the villain may have gone to his head. Argument for the power going to his head part is that most of his super villian level stuff happens after he gets the revive book, which you don't really talk about.
@@jazmoons imean this would have not happen if he did not burn the lemon tree how will dream enjoy his lemonade without lemons thats how tommy started all of this
@@lovieheart981 i wonder u never read the entire thing tommy is the reason dream turned everyone is the villian cause everyone was just like dream EVEN QUACKITY ARE WE NOT GONNA TALK ABOUT THAT
@@chaoz7729let me make sure you understand, if dream was "turned" into the villian by tommy, did tommy "make" him the villian BEFORE or AFTER his exile? If before, still quite literally doesnt excuse abusing and manipulating someone. If after, you literally can't try to defend him.
I never thought Dream was a bad guy- he’s kind, and just wanted peace. And he had to take some drastic steps. TOMMY is the reason everything went into flames
Yeah, but that’s from Dream’s perspective, and this video mostly talked from Dream’s perspective. I am going to be so honest, if you’ve seen the whole Tommy’s perspective, your opinion will completely change.
@@hawai567 meh they both did a lot of bad things, but it really was Tommy who started the whole thing, like sure he wasn’t to blame with everything but there were definitely moments where he kept the conflict going. And yeah I’ve watched his videos too and I don’t hate Tommy he can be pretty funny but there’s no denying he’s chaotic. Like the first thing he did when he joined the server was going around labeling other peoples houses and property as his lol. Then he burnt down ponks lemon tree at some point. And an example of when he could have just let the conflict/fighting stop was when he traded his discs for l’manburgs independence. Like he gave them away willingly. But then later tried to steal them back. That was like signing a peace treaty and then ripping it to shreds. They got what they wanted, they had independence there was no reason for him to just take them back. Sorry I’m probably rambling by now. Fair warning it’s like 3am right now so I probably won’t even remember I wrote this in the morning lol.
@@ShotoTodoroki-qs3ip I see that many people try to bring "Tommy stared it all." Yes, that is true but really, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. Why? That's because we're talking about who caused the most problems in the SMP. I am going to give The L'Manburg's Independence war was an example. Dream declared the war because he thought that L'Manburg would cause chaos later in the server. Well, I couldn't really see the point of this war since they could've just kept being peaceful. The point here that I'm trying to say is that, Dream had a little selfishness because L'Manburg was just a tiny part of his SMP and there was no reason to destroy L'Manburg. You said that Tommy tried to steal back the discs after he gave it to Dream after the war. Well, do you understand how much he liked that disc? Remember that he just HAD to give away the discs in order to protect L'Manburg. Again, this leads to my first statement that Dream started the war for particularly no reason. It makes sense that he wants to get back his discs because he was upset that he had to give away the discs just to protect L'Manburg independence, but the war would've never happened if Dream just didn't decide to do it. My final conclusion is this. IF I had to pick ONLY one villain in the Dream SMP, it would probably be Dream. Just like you said, Tommy did continue the conflict, but Dream punished him even more. The damage that Dream caused to the server has to be bigger than the damage that Tommy (and everyone else of course) caused to the server.
If you watch the Dream SMP from beginning to end, the lines in the sand are clear. Dream starts off as a dictator who declares war on a peaceful country, and he only gets worse. Tommy starts off as a troublemaker, and he becomes the server’s greatest hero.
@@calvinjohnson6242 Nah, even though he is my favorite character, I just can’t call him a hero. Yeah, it ends that Tommy did try to save the SMP for sacrificing his own life, at the very end. But do you remember that they talked a little bit before the “incident” happened? They discussed why they were almost always against each other, and why we treated each other as an enemy from the beginning. “Why can’t it just be simple again?” Dream’s characteristics were better when the server started. It just got worse as the time passed. All he wanted was a peaceful server in the beginning. Dream definitely acknowledges himself as a villain at that time. But he just didn’t like that Tommy always tries to state that he is always in the right side. The thing is, the only major problem with Tommy is that he never really had actually time to fully discuss with Dream, and he never really tried to understand his perspective the whole time. Tommy’s existence was so annoying for Dream. He was the only person who didn’t listen to him no matter what he mostly says about. For Dream, Tommy was the one who always made the server fall apart. That’s maybe one of the reasons why Dream couldn’t hide his villainy. It was already too late. The “incident” was already about to happen. Tommy regretted his choice at the very last minute. You can tell it by his face expression. Tommy and Dream’s relationship was very complex. They could’ve been friends from the very beginning. Turned out that they became the biggest enemies of each other, which is really sad but also disappointing.
Are you not going to mention Dream didn't even allow him to do a simple thing like let Tommy see a Christmas tree when Tommy was thinking about committing suicide by jumping into lava • c • My sadistic man Dream asked Tommy what death felt like after he killed him.
I feel like at some point in the story they need to do lore that shows that c!Dream is still human. A human that has done horrible, twisted things. But so is c!Quackity, c!Wilbur, and so many other people on the server. Yet, none of them get painted as the bad guy.
Mostly because (well C!Wilbur is kind of debatable) C!Quackity has a somewhat valid reason, C!Dream doesn’t. From what we’ve seen (I’m saying this because not much of Dream’s POV has been revealed if you wanna cut out the revival book video) he does it for fun.
While I can’t say that Dream is the Villain, because everyone in the Smp has their own perspectives and flaws, he definitely is an antagonist of some sort. His actions may, ultimately be for the greater good. It’s not justified because there were so many ways he could’ve gone about creating peace. Additionally, what you said about Dream having good intentions can no longer be applied after he escaped from prison solely because he’s still going after Tommy. While it can be said that yeah after spending a couple years in a lonely Jail cell while a duck man comes in to beat you up everyday for a revival book Isn’t great for your mental health -and Dream is probably at least a little bit unhinged I can’t say he still has good intentions.
Well I don't even think he cares anymore and is going for revenge. He just recently kept sam locked up in prison and that Quackity is next. While it doesn't explain tommy it shows that Dream is not after peace right now but instead revenge.
@@Shadow-yh5qo I don't know if that's the case at the moment. After the jailbreak, he met up with C!Punz, and they share a moment, and it shows that C!Dreams defeat in the Finale (Vault Encounter as I call it), was faked. To be fair as well, C!Sam and C!Quackity are not good people, and C!Dream didn't lock up C!Sam, it was the Revengers. C!Quackity is one I would consider the most villainous at the moment, because his motives have been literally shown to be power, and he will do anything to get that power. If anything, I would believe C!Quackity should be the one that is locked up. C!Sam became corrupted by his job as warden, he literally tore off someones arm to get back keycodes that didn't even work anymore. He allowed C!Quackity to torture C!Dream, and constantly tries to rationalise it as good. I think C!Sam lost sight of his morals while in the prison.
@@corruptsolstice340 c!Quackity's actions are definitely despicable, but his motives are much more complicated than just "power." He has a long history of being pushed around by more powerful characters on the server. Even though he only wanted to do good things for L'Manberg, c!Schlatt treated him like garbage, c!Wilbur blew up the country, c!Techno tried to kill them all with withers, and c!Dream threatened and manipulated them into exiling one of his best friends. He has spent much of his time on the server living in fear, and he's lost every home he ever had. Now, he only wants to be stronger to stand up to those people, prove that he won't be messed with again, and have a safe home for himself and the ones he loves. In fact, the streamer even said that his character's greatest desire is to have somewhere he can belong. There are plenty of powerful or power-hungry characters on the server, but it's far more interesting to look at the reasons *why* they want power: c!Dream wants everyone to be unified and peaceful, even if he has to take away everything they love that causes conflict. c!Techno wants everyone to be liberated from government, even if he has to use extreme force to destroy it for good. c!Sam wants to keep the server safe and orderly, even if he loses his integrity and his relationships in the process. c!Bad wants to stay together with his best friend, even if he has to sacrifice others to the whim of an evil entity. And c!Quackity wants to protect himself and his friends from being hurt again, even if he has to hurt his enemies in horrific ways. They've all used their power badly before, but the point is that none of them wanted that power purely for its own sake. No one ever does.
i can agree dream isnt the villian up untill tommy's exile and u glossed over alot of the bad he did like killing tommy in prison and ALOT in tommy's exile and tormenting tommy right when he got out of prison and more
And the fact that they completely leave out the fact that Tommy is a minor & Dream literally almost drove him to committing suicide by isolating & manipulating him into thinking he was alone & that everyone else hated him.
Yeah he isn’t just starting to be the “ villain” after the prison he May have started of with good intentions but eventually he kinda broke and stopped caring at all
@@lusacusmighy3938 also he was 16. Stop glossing over the fact Tommy chose to be cocky and test dream even though he wasn't going to have an exile if he listened to the negotiations.
Exactly! She didn't mention anything about exile, about how dream is making ranboo going insane, how he said to tommy "I'm going to make your life a living hell" How HE wanted to make people think that he really changed while he is making tommy going crazy How he made a trap in his house How he killed 2 people for the reviving book And there is more
It wasn't for fun. It was never for fun. It's all for the greater good. Like author said, as long as there is Tommy, there can never be peace. Tommy was the cause of the most of the problems on the SMP. Exile had to be done. Away from his friends, Tommy was never able to ruin the peace. That's why he was willing to let Tommy live in Techno's house. Because he knew that could never ruin the peace. He never wanted Tommy dead back then. He only wanted Tommy away from the server. Tommy was never able to hold peace. Exile does not matter. One life of a teen is a worthy sacrifice for the greater good. But Tommy was never anything but selfish. He never cared about anything besides himself, Tubbo and his discs. That's why Dream chose to not only kill Tommy but give him the punishment he deserved. Dream wanted to keep killing and reviving Tommy, just like Tommy kept killing and Dream kept reviving the peace at the server. Actually, Dream wanting peace also explains one of the reasons why he trapped himself in the prison. It was an experiment. Dream was locked away, but the peace was never there. Dream is not the reason chaos is happening. Tommy is. While Dream is an antagonist, he's not a villian. He was never a villian in the first place
THIS! I firmly believe that his entire motivation is uniting the server. He confided in Punz that the end result of their plan was a “happy family”. Even Punz himself said that they would return the server to “how it was before”. His spiral is tragic, especially with his ends justify the means mindset, and throwing himself away in the process.
i don't agree with this. If you watch the youtube chanel game theory long enough, you start to realize that they begin to exaggerate and twist the story slightly to get to their end goal (sans is ness theory *cough cough*). If you think of yourself living a hundred years, a canon life is about 33 years on the dream smp. dream has taken (dreamhastaken lol) ALL THREE of tommy's canon lives, killed ghostbur, killed mexican dream, tortured a CHILD in exile after being betrayed by his best friend whom HE manipulated him to, and while you can say that tommy has been in nearly every single conflict on the server, GUESS WHO ELSE WAS ALSO IN THE CONFLICTS? DREAM. dun dun duuuuuuuuuuuuh. :0 I'm a firm believer in the fact that mostly everyone in the dsmp is pretty evil, but dream is by far the worst.
I don't think kidnapping, torturing and killing Vikstar and Lazarbeam can be justified (or even explained) by Dream's supposed goal to reunite the server. Other things that show that Dream is not just morally grey character but a straight up villain: •When Sam asked Dream why he killed Ghostbur and brought Wilbur back, Dream said, "I wanted to torture Tommy." •"You're too much fun."; "I'm playing with my food."; "I'm going to make your life a living hell." admitting this to Tommy to his face that he's just an entertainment and there's no other goal to abusing him but for the sick joy of it •At the topic of Tommy, why would Dream go after him, setting trap in his house, try to capture him at Logstedshire after prison breakout, if his goal was reuniting the server? Tommy is not even doing anything, he just exists and lives. There are people that are far more disrupting of peace than he is
Borderline, is that he is a villain without all the big, dramatic words. Y'all really sound so close to a cdream apologist man. He did all that try to justify what he did was necessary and right but lmao he's just like any other serial killer in the world, thinking what they did was right even if they killed someone just because they so much as wipe their mouth wrong. And now he's strayed from his "path" and just wants to torture ppl for fun.
@@silentteyz2912 but the thing is that he has to traumatize everyone to get his "end goal" y'know. "The server can be a big family again" was what he said a few days before killing Tommy in the prison. I can't stand anyone who wants to defend him.
@@superrobloxer2587 Neither do I can understand why people try to excuse pr sympathize with c!Dream after all what he has done. He's a great villain - very enjoyable - so just sit back and appreciate the acting of cc!Dream who was able to nail such a immoral character
@@isabellemelvin7051 yes it does because what the finale was basically Tommy and Dream getting sick of doing bad things to each other and wanted everything to stop but at that point there was nothing they could do. Almost everyone hates them, gone insane, or doesn't care anymore. In the end the peace they now wanted couldn't become true because everyone and everything was to far gone form what it was before everything. Dream himself said cDream is the villain.
@@cupcake1q_Gacha But at least it ended in a good way. They wanted to just make the server “simpler” again, and it did, it restarted, all of the memories are gone, and they can start over.
I agree with this theory I try to tell my friends but they still think dream is the villain but Dream has done more severe things but tommy and the others have done more bad thing then Dream. And if dream is a villain the so would the rest of the server. Yes dream did awful things but for the sake of Peace. And Wilbur, Tommy, Tubbo, Quackity they are for it for power so who is the villain in this story? The answer is no one. (Btw this is only a theory not cannon or is it either way it's just a theory A LORE Theory)
Well first off, this isn’t a theory, it’s an opinion, the main reason Dream is a villain is we don’t see is POV, and the first time we have, he wasn’t that good of a guy gonna be honest, and most of what you said is the case, until the exile arc, he is a manipulator, he manipulated Tommy into thinking he was the only person who cared for him, didn’t tell Tubbo & the rest of L’manberg Tommy was alive, no harm could have came if Tommy saw people, none..Tommy isn’t a hero, he’s a kid, a kid who has had his life completely ruined, the last few Tommy lore streams proves Dream is a villain, he’s ruining Tommy’s mental state, I believe with most villains in media, they were justified UNTIL they step too far, and Dream has stepped to far
(All about characters) So, not to be rude or anything, but you miss out on a lot of details that differentiate Dream from any of the others that could be considered villainous. Not even Techno, or Quackity, or Sam could compare to Dream because he's gone way too far. First point: "Tommy had started all the conflict". Incorrect. Before Tommy had even joined the server, Dream had gotten angry at George for having slightly better gear in the early days, and iirc killed him to destroy his armour so everyone else could keep up. And Tommy did bring some problems, sure, but he was not the main cause of wars and conflict. Wanna know who was? Sapnap. In fact, he's the character who has caused the most conflicts directly, and most of them Tommy was dragged into by Sapnap. If we're bringing the SMP rules into this, then Dream broke his own rules far worse than Tommy or Wilbur or whoever could. When Tommy had (rightfully) taken his discs back because Dream had stolen (broken his own rules already, I see), he hid them. Dream then griefed Tommy's entire front lawn in order to search for the discs, despite the war having been resolved by that point because of the fair trade they ended up doing in the end. So, Dream re-engaged a war for no reason other than... having control over Tommy? Also, in the early days, Dream would literally stalk Tommy and had tunnels under his house in attempts to take his discs back. Who's the one disrupting peace again? Then, L'manburg. I'll admit, it was... not the best, but it wasn't as if it was causing many problems. They hadn't even tricked many people into giving them their brewing stands and all that, it was like... so easy to see through their attempts. Then, Dream unnecessarily started a war against them (hmm, I wonder who's disrupting the peace). Let me tell you: L'manburg didn't steal land, and it was in fact the most tiny land. Hell, Punz's house was bigger than L'manburg, and it's not like L'manburg had some resources in the walls that only they could get. So, Dream literally had no reason to attack them other than... what, his convoluted definition of peace? Yeah, sounds great. Manburg era. Dream had endorsed Schlatt the moment he ran for presidency in the elections, despite... him clearly showing evil signs. Seriously, if Dream wanted peace and L'manburg to stay in its little boxed off area, why the hell did he endorse Schlatt? Dude's a walking, talking cartoon villain and everyone could see that. Also, just pointing it out here: Quackity's want for power stems from him being abused and sexually assaulted by Schlatt during Manburg (yes, Schlatt abused + sexually assaulted Quackity). He was left powerless, and he had genuinely just wanted to help L'manburg, but then Schlatt got control and he couldn't stop him. Pogtopia wasn't a nation btw, it was a revolution stemmed from like 2 exiled people just wanting their homes back. Also, Technoblade had offered to help them first, despite them clearly showing no signs of wanting anarchy, so Techno... can't really complain? Anyways, getting off track. Once Schlatt was dead, they elected Tubbo because they saw him as a fair president. I mean, Tubbo was pretty fair, much better than Schlatt or Wilbur could be. Then... Techno and Dream blew L'manburg up? Wait, what? Didn't Dream want peace? Why was he helping destroy the nation despite having helped them reclaim it? Anyways, exile conflict. For context, Tommy had zero clue that he was the VP, and in fact said that he'd given up the position of president to finish his conflict with Dream. He told Tubbo that he wouldn't be his VP until he got his conflict finished with Dream. He actively didn't want to be associated in a position of power in order to finish whatever he still had with Dream. Then, Dream and Puffy went around, griefing buildings and blaming it on Tommy. If you watch Tommy's VOD back, they hadn't meant to destroy portions of George's house, but even then... George himself admitted it wasn't much and that he could fix it, which he did in under ten minutes. Dream then pressured L'manburg into exile, despite people having agreed that Tommy would be put on probation, and he built walls around L'manburg. During the meeting where they agreed on probation, Dream was sending whispers to Tommy, taunting him with ":)" messages. He was actively taunting Tommy, and of course Tommy would lash out against that, because Dream was targeting him specifically just to get him seem like he was lashing out for no reason. Then, when Tommy was forced to be exiled (otherwise L'manburg would... be slaughtered if they tried leaving the walls, have their armour taken, etc etc. Geez, Dream sure wants peace, doesn't he? Sounds very peaceful to have people patrolling and killing if they tried leaving), Dream had changed the rules of the exile. Exile was a straight up kidnapping, because he brought Tommy to a specific location, despite the agreement of exile being... anywhere but L'manburg. Dream abused, gaslit, and manipulated Tommy in exile. He came every day to blow up his things, which isn't a peaceful thing to do at all, just for control over Tommy. I don't care how much peace you want, abusing a teenager isn't right no matter what you say. Then, while this was happening, he was manipulating Tubbo to be his friend so that he could get the disc from him and have even more control over Tommy. Remember the "I just wanna say, you're an idiot" speech? Yeah, that's not very peaceful, now is it? He's shifting so much blame on to Tommy because he can't dare to admit that maybe he was the one creating conflict, not Tommy. He then helped with Doomsday, which wasn't a peaceful event, and canonically lasted for 3 days. Yes, 3 days. People had to fight and suffer and watch tnt rain from the skies for three days, all for """peace""". Man, Dream, your peace is starting to sound more like... hm, what was it? Oh yeah, tyranny. Then, he went on to build the disc finale area, and all of that played out. Also, I don't care what you say, threatening to kill someone is a form of mental torture. So, he was mentally torturing Tubbo by threatening to kill him and then lock Tommy up, even if it wasn't true due to the staged finale being canon. Oh, and while all of this was happening, guess what? He was killing and reviving two totally innocent people over and over to learn how revival works. Hm, very peaceful, yes that is so peaceful indeed. Then, he escaped. Guess what he did straight away? Went for Tommy after getting gear from Punz. He hunted Tommy down for roughly 10 minutes irl time, all while taunting and acting like it was a game of some kind. Now that you've read all that, does Dream really seem like the good guy? No, he's a villain. Yes, Wilbur, Techno, Schlatt, Quackity and Sam are/were all villains. But guess what? None of them can compare to Dream's level of evil, because guess what? Dream has gone so far for his plans, all for... """peace""", which I seriously doubt at this point. Do you wanna know what I think he really wants? Control. That's all he wants. Just control. He doesn't care about peace, and actively breaks his own rules. Yeah, talk about peace. So, go ahead. Try tell me that Dream's not the villain.
don't think I have agreed more with a comment. Like yes the server is based on the idea of multiple perspectives, which is what makes it so interesting. But you cannot sit here and tell me that c!Dreams "peaceful" intentions at the start of the server are not just his lust for control. I also hate when people just blindly blame c!Tommy for starting conflicts when he just gets dragged into it most of the time, just because he has a loud and abrasive persona.
Thank you so much for this. Yes, there is no definitive black or white morality. Yes, the Dream SMP is made up of shades of grey. But the thing is, not all shades of gray are the same. The difference between characters runs as wide as slightly smudging pencil lead on white paper, to scribbling so hard that your pencil breaks. And Dream has collected a gigantic pile of broken pencils, with no erasers in sight. Whatever his nebulous goals of "unity" may be, he crossed the line when he manipulated justice so he could abuse a teenager to the point of attempting suicide, and then again when he admitted over and over that he *enjoyed* doing so. And until he expresses remorse for those actions and makes serious attempts to reform, I will never consider him a hero.
i agree with this one as well, if this video is an essay that i would grade, it would most likely be a B at best since it has left out/with held/inaccurately stated information without any supporting videos to show if it were true. im just tired of so many fans of the lore that glossed over everything that made c!dream THE villain of the story. what he had done and will done in the future are already irredeemable even to c!wilbur, c!techno, c!quackity and every big bad villains have done before.
I agree. c!Dream have multiple times admitted that he had fun making c!Tommy's life miserable. + Another supporting point of him being a villain is the fact it was revealed in his latest lore video that he also murdered Vikkstar and Lazarbeam, two completely innocent people, so he could experiment on them before he went to prison to test the revive book. That's not somebody who wants "peace" would do. Somebody can have/started with good intentions, and still be an villain.
@@nikitajeevanath248 yeah they take tommy's recklessness and exploit it, blaming him even though it isn't even close to being his fault. Tommy's house has been griefed so many countless times and then George's house gets ruined once it immediately deserves exile like, what? make it make sense
Yea, This vid has some good points but didnt mention some of the bad deeds, Hes literally just taking evryones belongings including taking their pets hostage.
@@agamerdude7596 hey pal i kbow this is 2months ago but didnt he say that tommy who started the chaos? For me dream was just want some peace! Like if the whole server turn on dream its ok for dream because she just want some peace!!! In dream deep side she is so happy because of the server turning on her and thats peace! I mean yeah he stole some of stuff but he just want some peace of the srver dream just want the server what like before tommy join....
uh you shouldn’t excuse the abuse? mentally and physically. C!Dream didn’t NEED to emotionally manipulate c!Tommy or physically abuse him. He wanted C!Tommy to be alone and wanted him to feel some sort of pain. More like break C!Tommy’s spirits? C!Dream isn’t the only villain but he still is an important one. C!Dream went off the deep end after while and now he is a maniac. /rp /dsmp
@@seemasrivastava3991 bro I posted this 7 months ago lol obviously my views have changed a bit tho I haven’t really had motivation to watch final lore streams so sorry if my views here turned out wrong. Just what I thought a couple months ago.
I'm agreeing with this, They've been pinning him as the *Villain,* his just like a *Broken Hero* (actually not a broken hero, I just forgot what it was ー
I agree that he wanted peace...from the beginning but as time went on I think he became a Villain. He literally Manipulated, tortured and abuse a Child to the point where Tommy almost commited Suicide plus after the prison break he literally chases Tommy and he admitted many times that he had fun playing with Tommy (By playing is tortured) He is literally actively going to make Tommy life HELL and some sort of obsession over him, He is the definition of a VILLAIN an Child Abuser Villain.
Dream always meant for C!Dream to be this irredeemable villain. It's why we've never seen his pov up until now, so we wouldn't sympathise with him. Well look how that turned out, haha.
Also in new lore Dream is starting to make Tommy insane? Tommy was so traumatised by Dream that he freaked out and was scared of sapnap and asked sap nap to take his armour in fear of being hurt. He was making Tommy disassociate and hallucinate. And in the recent lore Tommy runs to Phils only to see a sign saying "I got him too :)" left by Dream, I think Drean USED to want peace, and was trying to keep things peaceful, but now I think he's just gone mad and torturing Tommy for his own fun.
Dunno if you'll see this, but I love the theory you have! I was wondering if you could do Eret, since I don't see much on them in a while. My theory is that Eret is Herobrine's kid, but that Dream knew about this because all his actions towards Eret was more like him trying to keep Eret away from the others and this makes sense because Foolish and Dream are canonical siblings so it would make sense that Dream knows the truth and others but they can't say anything and that gives the idea that there is a much bigger threat that is listening and waiting.
YES THANK YOU I'm so glad someone finally made a video explaining all this stuff I leave it to you XD No one freaking listens and accepts and they make fun of me for defending him and it's very frustrating. I really like how you put it together the phrasing makes a lot of sense!!
But y'know when there's peace there's always chaos too history will always repeat itself if there's still one person who's greedy for power and control.
I have always stayed on dreams side because all he wants was peace, I seen this and no one understands so thank you you puting this together, now I can show my friend that dream was never the villain
My only question is why doesn't dream just let the chaos blow over? I know it may seem like a dumb question but we've seen this before, people become exhausted and stop fighting. Perhaps the members need to learn a lesson? But if dream does let chaos ensue, he will most likely use it as an excuse that he can be peaceful and then the server will trust him again. Plus if people end up losing lives to the conflict, dream can just revive them and then people will trust him even more. Just a few theories.
@electron5501 :D This is just my opinion, but I don't think that the idea "letting the whole SMP be thrown into chaos and then reviving them if they die will make it better". 1. The majority of the SMP members already sees Dream as the villain of the story. 2. If he does let the chaos take over, one faction will reign over others and even more countries or group or community would pop up for the sake of taking down the reigning faction (this can be seen even in IRL). 3. Those who are permanently dead wouldn't be grateful nor trustworthy to Dream if he does revive them (keep in mind that not the entire sever knows about Dream's ability to revive people). 4. If Dream does use the revival book after the chaos had pass, those who knew that dream had such ability (especially those who are obsessed with powers) will continue to torture him for his ability, since more people now knows about the book they share the same goals and the chaos would restart all over again. 5. No matter how you see it, there is no possible solution to a peaceful sever where no one would want more power than others (I think we've seen too many instances of that already 😅), and it's important to remember that the SMP isn't only filled with humans, we had gods and people who can use special powers. But either way, this is just my theory. Maybe there really is a way for peace to co-exist for the members.
i rlly like that idea like why doesnt he just let the chaos blow over, when something biig happens amongst themselves, then they'll be begging Dream to come back and do what he does best, end it all.
@@jeannemoreno7034 I dont think that would work. They hunted C!Techno down even when he went into hiding and was peaceful. I am pretty sure they'd do the same for C!Dream.
i dont want to be rude or anything but isn't this a bit too incorrect for a character analysis/essay? the first point is already incorrect with the mentality of "c!tommy is the root of all conflicts or conflicts that led up to the current situation" which is already a red flag when creating a character analysis on a character that is as compelling and irredeemable as dream. what's even more confusing was when you mentioned that sapnap and tommy burned ponk's lemon tree, you then said that sapnap turned to tommy for help? that, in itself, meant that sapnap dragged tommy which means that it was SAPNAP, dream's FRIEND, who started it all. did they have an all-out war from it? yes, but the two main causes were ponk and sapnap, tommy was only dragged into their conflict because of his general attitude as a gremlin. so, tommy is not really the "true start" of the dream smp lore. may i add that dream's server wasn't really peaceful from the start, if i remember it correctly, dream destroyed (or was it taken) george's armor because he was jealous of it in a sense? then they have a literal trial for it with badboyhalo as the judge, and this was BEFORE tommy even joined the server, so really, dream already disrupted peace before it really kicks off. now, to the part of dream taking tommy's discs, it would have been more rational for dream to take, i dont kno, sapnap's valuables than the child who got dragged in the first place, as it to become some sort of alibi for the two to stop the war since tommy followed sapnap. additionally, after the fight for the discs, dream was already far gone from his idea of "uniting the server and making it peaceful" when he stalked, griefed and tried to steal tommy's discs DURING peace time and BEFORE wilbur ever joined the server. that, in of itself, is already breaking his own goal. second point, l'manburg, while it was silly and unneccessary, let's take in the fact that the former country was even smaller than punz's property which means there's not much to it to l'manburg other than it was (to be blunt) a pathetic nation to begin with. so there's no reason for dream to cause as big as a conflict on a nation that will only dry itself off without his hand on it. their attempts in bringing in more members of the nation are more of close friends in a group or their attempts in doing so are comedically ridiculous. so, his method of gaining peace is, once again, questionable. third point, elections and pogtopia, once again I want to reiterate, dream has once again caused more chaos than needed by ADMITTING he and techno (with wilbur's help) blew up l'manburg, and even liked it because it was a mean for HIM to win. and to start, why didn't he banned schlatt again if he saw how bad his intentions were? even if its within l'manburg, there's still a possibility that the greater dream smp would be dragged by schlatt's actions. he did it once, he should have done it again. what techno said to tommy? it's also applicable to dream, "dont you (dream) see how history repeating itself? you think schlatt (tommy) was the cause of your problems? no, it was government (dream's blooming tyrannical rule)." fourth point, george's burned down house. now this is just full of misinformation, and i want you to rewatch the streams in both tommy's and puffy's perspectives to make sense why it's misinformation. but if you want to see my reason why i called it as that, here's my reason: both puffy and dream griefed so many buildings and made it look like tommy was the cause of it, they already planned to stage him for an uproar before he accidentally griefed george's house. speaking of george's house, time and time again, what he and ranboo did was a pure accident when it comes to burning it, stealing? yeah that was their original intention but never the burning part. you mentioned the rules of which the first two was broken by the person who made those rules, so why did tommy have that heavy of a punishment when time and time again, others did the same thing and even DREAM did the SAME thing as tommy but he did it with malicious intentions. and even then, the damage werent that severe compared to, once again, tommy's constantly griefed house, even george mentioned that it wasnt that bad and that he fixed it under 10 or so minutes. fifth point, the walls surrounding new l'manburg. what dream did was ridiculous because, again, HE didnt RESPECT his OWN rules, add in that he didnt let george say his opinion about his griefed house despite being the owner and victim of tommy and ranboo's actions. if hes going for diplomatic route, he should have talked to tubbo before he build the walls as to talk about tommy's punishment. probations alone should be enough due to the fact that dream and puffy already griefed buildings and framing it as tommy's actions even though tommy was the vice president (speaking of vice presidency, tommy mentioned before that he will not take any government position unless he got his discs back from dream, meaning that he doesnt want to drag l'manburg into conflict because of the postion of being the second most powerful in l'manburg), shouldn't that be the same magnitude of a punishment for dream (and puffy) to have since they were falsely accusing a government official? especially since dream was george's right hand man, the KING'S right hand man. so, really dream, AGAIN, disrupted peace with severe actions and such idiotic reasons. additionally, you only blamed tommy for the burning when ranboo was also there as well, if you say that tommy is as bad as you make him out to be, then why did he adamant in defending ranboo during the trial? sixth point, exile. you saying "call it cruel, but this is for the greater good of the dream smp" literally downgrades the effects on tommy's mentality in his exile and the action he inflicted on a child. in fact, you have glossed over this entire point, and noticing how it's the shortest argument in the video, i'd say this is your weakest point in the video with full of plotholes. look, im not intending to sound mean and condescending, but exile is such a turning point in the story. first, he didn't create peace, he didnt say anything about tommy's deteriorating condition or blatantly lied about it, he only said what new l'manburg would like to hear as so they dont serve as distractions to his abuse on tommy. second, there's no violence as far as dream knows, dream was there for techno's execution, isnt he? doesnt that mean he somehow knew about it and called punz so that he can gain a favor from techno, whos one of the most powerful members in the server. third, "dream needed him to have no upper hand", then explain to me on what he did for tommy to not have the upper hand? exactly, the only thing you mentioned is that he destroyed what tommy collected, only that. you didnt mention the physical, mental and emotional abuse he did to him, the abuse that drove him into almost losing his life through self-dead, taunting him on something he really wanted to be in, lying to a boy who already lost all and his only hope is to see his friends by inviting them to a party he put effort in, and once again, the same boy that he drove to a second act of self-dead before tommy pulled himself together by landing on water. this is the turning point on why some fans considered dream as the ultimate villain of the dream smp lore, because these actions from exile ALONE is already disgusting and irredeemable.
i made a long list so heres the continuation of it kekw :P seventh point, tommy at techno's house. to keep it short, he didnt care that tommy is allied with techno, because dream already held a favor over techno's head. he doesnt need to barge in and take tommy from techno when he can call techno himself and made the favor into him giving tommy without any struggle. this is another weak point due to dream saying that he can cash in the favor another time when techno offered tommy to him. its that easy for dream to capture tommy thus he didnt give a single damn about it. eighth point, the community house. once again, to keep it short, he pinned it to tommy because of circumstances. dream told the cabinet that tommy went missing (to which what he did is blatant kidnapping because he didnt inform tubbo on where they were going for exile) then after that, tommy caused minor chaos because of his deal with techno. may i remind you that once again, tommy didnt want to hurt l'manburg, he only did it because he was holding his end of the deal. it takes a blind person to see that everyone united in the community house because of tommy, be it negative or positive, and that controlling tommy would lead to controlling the server, and to control tommy is to take his discs. he already shown his true colors when he insulted tubbo despite the stress the young president was in, and when he disowned himself as sapnap and george's friend. he didnt needed the discs for peace, he needed the discs because it was FUN when seeing tommy stumble time and time again. he was having FUN in tormenting the former youngest member of the server. this was seen in the same event you mentioned with doomsday, i suggest watching either tubbo's or tommy's perspectives of the event. at this point, there's no sought out goal of peace in dream's mind anymore. ninth point, the final disc saga. again, that "tommy is the cause of every conflict" mentality, he only caused two so far and its the railway skirmish but even then, he did warned dream to move out of the way, and the accidental burning of george's house. you said it yourself, he's involved in every conflict but that doesnt mean he started it. not only did dream stole every important things from other people without their knowledge, he was planning to CAGE a PERSON, he was identifiying a person as a mere ATTACHMENT. and to add, he admitted to about the exile and the community house not because he felt guilty but he was on death's door with no way out and only one ally present in a group of people intending to save tommy and tubbo (or imprisoned dream and save tubbo for jack and niki's case). what dream meant when he can have the control again and turn the server back into what it used to be is that he can have control OVER the server, break his own rules and not face any consequences because he has the attachments and the main source of these attachments with him. tenth point, dream in prison. i actually thought that dream let himself be imprisoned because he saw how united everyone was at the time, but with the current lore we have, safe to say its more of a confirmation than anything. let's not forget he killed two innocent member in the server before he went to jail, and seeing how everyone is there due to one common factor, he knew he must control tommy to take control of the server again. he didnt do it for peace and only complied to tommy's demands because its either prison or death with no way for sure if he'll ever come back with the knowledge he has. about the members having their own group or nation, eggpire was already a thing before his imprisonment and its a thing during new l'manburg so really, he didnt predict that one. the nations, particularly snowchester, are only created due to either fear or as a safety precaution with the new groups such as the syndicate being a countermeasure for these nations. las nevadas is the only nation created from greed but even then, it also served as a line of defense for quackity. eleventh point, quackity. i can give you that because your point does follow and sound like quackity and his attitude in the story, but saying he was just like him is a bit incorrect. quackity is like dream when it comes to the intensity of actions but unlike dream, he has someone to fight for. charlie and tommy are examples of this instance, with the latter becoming one of the reasons why quackity tortured dream in prison. he wasnt painted as the villain when he show actions on why hes the villain, he himself somewhat accepted the role with open arms due to how much fun it gave him unlike the era of peace. at first, yes he did have similar motives as everyone but that motive changed during the manberg era, maybe even before that. twelfth point, the prison break. this is the strongest point for even i have difficulty to counter it but there are still some that needs to be pointed out. the prison break also led to the death of one of techno's closest friends, ranboo, due to dream hurriedly left the scene, in the exact same event, tommy went to phil and let out everything on why he hates dream which led to phil protecting him despite being best friends with the person who helped in escaping the said prisoner. additionally, the first action he taken after meeting up with punz for armor and weapons, was to chase tommy down like its a game and threatened to kill him then revive him over and over again. add in that punz basically threw the wrench on the entire "dream willingly let himself be arrested for the greater good because he finally united the people" and crashed and burned the entire point.
in short, theres two sides of the coin, and an explanation on what happened throughout the course of the history of the dream smp. its best to confirm that what you see in one perspective also aligned to the other party's perspective so as to avoid constant holes in an essay such as this. compare and contrast is a good method when it comes to analysis, and again i dont want to come off as mean when making this comment, is more to educate on what actually led to dream be considered as the villain of the server. :DDD
@@clashmc1555 But he did. Examples: Tommy's exile Bribing Eret Blowing up l'manberg for no reason Supplying wilbur with TNT during pogtopia Driving ranboo to insanity I believe he is the villain (He and wilbur) You dont have to though!
I can see ur point however I can't entirely agree that Dream was not the villain. At the end of the day, he still did those shit things; doing something bad for a greater good doesn't wipe out the effect of the bad.
I agree. He repeatedly killed 2 innocent people to test out resurrection. I would even argue he’s like a morally bad person similar to Dumbledore in a way, and definitely worse then Dumbledore. I always hate the “greater good” argument as it sacrifices people just to reach some “goal for a better life” or a “big happy family.” For example, what would you think if you are just some guys living out retirement and suddenly 2 armed men chased you and your friend down? You don’t even know WHY they are after you two. Now you are trapped in some random lab and suddenly your dead in the most horrendous way possible. Next think you know you are alive AGAIN. Then the kidnappers proceeded to kill you AGAIN. This happens OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN as they tested out MULTIPLE ways to kill and revive you. What Dream is doing is inhumane and downright evil not to mention this took place BEFORE he was thrown into prison. Good intentions does NOT erase the inhumane actions he has done and apparently planning to do in the future. Human experimentation already crosses so many moral and ethical lines. On top of that, this likely happen around the Exile Arc where Dream abused a kid nearly pushed them to off themselves. I could go on, but it’ll be a long list.
Also turbo help tommy even thought he griefed the owners friends home so I understand dreams points but the only thing I don’t agree with is blowing up his stuff a permanent exile and Tommy’s last canon death outside of that I don’t really see much wrong with dream
I describe Dream's character as a sympathetic villain. Specifically a "well-intentioned extremist" I suppose, committing various immoral acts for the sake of peace. He was kinda like the Thanos of the server I guess. But recently after he escaped his prison cell, he has gone down a completely villainous path, and started getting his revenge on the server, and once again started to commit more evil doings.
“Dream ISNT the villain of dsmp!” Also dream: emotionally Manipulated multiple children, INCLUDING ADULTS. Physically and abused some of them. If he wanted “peace” then he would have stayed. In. The. Prison. BUT HE DIDNT. And yes not everyone on the server is “pure” and “only well-meaning”, but most, if not all, don’t torture children except dream. (I am aware abt Wilbur so he is also on the list of emotions abuse, but not as high as dream). I rest my case.
@@kwamekwatengkuranchie644 "your wrong" I didn't even state an opinion lol, the comment states that dream manipulated and abused people, and that if he wanted peace he should've stayed in the prison. I simply said that the video explains why he did those things, are you saying she didn't explain those things?
I can see an argument for Dream up until exile. In my opinion you really underplayed what Dream did, he was emotionally tormenting, isolating and (i know you disagree but come on, he kept being like 'I'm your friend Tommy!') a minor. That is not cool jo matter what Tommy did. I think that Dream went mad with his idea of peace and that destroyed any good he hoped to enact. I equally see no reason for why Dream should have killed Tommy. I'm no Tommy stan, I think his character is very clearly stupid and selfish, but no one deserves what he went through.
All Dream ever did was want the best for the smp as a whole. If only he had an epic final line like “I did all this for peace” or something like that before he was sent to prison.
honestly as soon as i got into the smp i sided with dream and havent been able to enjoy it since its nice to see people finally come to the same conclusion
But with the current lore- “I‘ll kill you and I’ll revive you again and I’ll kill you and I’ll revive you again and I’ll revive you again” I feel kinda bad for all the characters including dream and tommy but what he did to ranboo was a bit-
Dream may have wanted peace but you kind of sugar coated some of his actions. And you can’t forget he killed Tommy to prove a point. And he left Ranboo to die. Soooooooo
Yeah like every single thing he does is just for his own individual benefit. If he did want peace then he's going through a twisted and demented path. By peace does he mean having everyone under his finger tips so they would agree to him all of the time?
One thing I have noticed which could go against this is that dream still seems obsessed with getting peoples items, because he's spoken about it before, including talking about technos polar bear and so on.
I think there's some details/info missing here and there that got brushed over, but overall a good video! You definitely got his motivations spot on, though with the reveal of the Staged Finale and how the prison and Disc Finale was all planned from the beginning, including Punz betraying him, I think there's definitely some things that arent completely accurate. BUT, considering how inaccurate most videos on c!Dream are, I think this was a really good covering of c!Dream's actual goals and motivations/general outlook. Looking forward to more of your videos!
Quackity and Sam are the definitions of hypocrites in the server Quackity is doing the exact same thing Dream did (manipulating people, blowing up builds and torturing someone) and Sam is keeping Dream locked up yet letting Quackity go free and everyone says Dream is the cause of every conflict but seriously Quackity is the one who got Jschlatt elected, SapNap started the Pet Wars (I think), Eret betrayed L’Manberg (maybe Dream manipulated him but it was still Eret’s choice), Wilbur is the one who blew up L’Manberg (don’t even say that was Dream’s fault as with Eret it was Wilbur’s choice), Techno was gonna destroy L’Manberg the second time anyway and Dream was in no way affiliated with the Eggpire, so saying he’s responsible for everything is more than exaggerating.
Honestly, 'Hero' and 'Villain' is just a title you give someone in your own perspective because in everyone's perspective, they see themselves as the 'hero' and their enemy, the 'villain'
I would like to remind that Wilbur Soot has described C!Dream as villainous, and the writers appear to want to portray him as such. Many things were glossed over in this, and several things were mentioned to be for a different reason than mentioned here. I'm not here to attack, but simply point out a very clear bias that undermines much of C!Dream's actual character.
*Sam:* _So does that mean that you're a bad guy too?_ *Dream:* _Yes! Yes, you're finally getting it. In our world, you have to do bad things. You have to be a bad guy, otherwise, you end up dead!_
This video talks about what i tell my friends that the smp can be looked on as both sides being the “right” side so I agree that he could be a so called hero through specific parts of the story
FINALLY SOMEONE SAID EVERYTHING I WANTED TO SAYYYY! GLAD THAT WE R ON THE SAME PAGE. IM NOW GONNA SEND THIS TO EVERYONE. also plzzzzzzzz do Wilbur or Ranboo
I respect your opinion, but unfortunately, I cannot agree with it. It sounds to much like a c!dream apologist video to me. I see where you’re trying to come from, but I can’t see how you can vilify his actions anymore because he’s devolved into a narcissistic psychopath who has manipulated multiple people on the server. We all think of Tommy when we hear “Oh, Dream’s manipulating someone,” but that isn’t the case. For starters, he manipulated Tubbo into exiling his best friend and nearly handing over the disc. He made himself appear as an ally to L’Manberg when is was really just a way to create more conflict. Another instance is Ranboo. Now, I’m not too sure as to what is happening in the lore, but making someone do something for you in an semi-conscious state and driving them to the point where they lock themselves in room/prison because they literally can’t trust themselves due to supposed voices in their head doesn’t seem humane to me. Lastly, we have Tommy. While I may be a huge c!Tommy fan and literally want the world for him, I can’t deny the fact that he has done wrong. He has been selfish, he has been arrogant. However, he always seems to pay more than double the price to amount for his actions. I mean, burn a house and get exiled out your own nation and be manipulated? Doesn’t seem like a fair trade-off to me. Oh, while we’re on this topic, I don’t quite think you understand how bad exile was. Tommy was manipulated to the point where he thought Dream, his mortal enemy, was his owner. That’s essentially Stockholm Syndrome at its most basic form. He also nearly committed suicide multiple times because of his manipulation and was beaten to death just to prove a point. This doesn’t even include all of the other people he had hurt. Overall, the “Dream is not a villain” isn’t feasible to me. I understand what you mean by different perspectives determine who’s good and who’s evil, but everyone is a villain in their own way. There is no true “hero” in the Dream Smp. However, there are those who are much worse than others, and Dream falls under that category.
@Crystal Draffin I get it's a theory, that's why it's so unfortunate that so many people are using this video as if it was a fact. People are allowed to complain if others are using "evidence" (misinformation) from this video to justify their claims. But in most often times those others are very stubborn so arguments are bound to get heated.
@Crystal Draffin Going english essay on me? So be it. You cannot defend those who chose to continue to believe something when it's proven incorrect. It only shows peoples ignorance to be open-minded. That's only natural here though since most people are kids and teenagers which we're naturally stubborn with our opinions so it's only fair. Arguing and debating is an invevitable thing especially with topics like these, people who fan over movies and books debate in this same way with their own characters, so this isn't any different. (Plus debating about this stuff is probably what's kept this fandom active for so long even with limited lore these days) And quite frankly, there is plenty of evidence that clearly overlaps C!Dreams (if he even has) "neutral" motives, even if he were to suddenly say he's a good guy his actions say otherwise. He's claimed it himself that his character is a bad guy over and over, and apologists KNOW THIS. And they chose to ignore it. (There's even a video of an apologist proving this point). At this point arguing with them is like talking to a wall. Au's are fine, because it actually states that it's not canon. In the end, people are allowed to say "Hey, this evidence you're using is actually incorrect!" and critisize others, it's not a bad thing. And in no way should misinformation be treated like a belief, take it this way. Someone points out a orange and calls it green, you tell them it's orange and in response they'll say "Oh nah it's true that's just my belief". Or another example. Someone points to the moon, and calls it the sun. You respond with "Hey there's actually evidence that it's the moon", and they respond with "Seriously? It is the sun, that's my opinion". Do you see where the frustration comes from? Knowing you can prove them wrong or at least show a different point of view but there's this invisble wall between you both that's hinted by the words "opinion" and "belief". It's a too familar excuse, sometimes you can convince them after a long debate and showing evidence. Other times they'll cross their arms and say "Well I don't believe that video/picture! Leave me alone!" and the wall only grows thicker. It's a human thing, and it takes real maturity for people to be open and have the willingness to change. It happens to all of us eventually. But yeah I understand you're not an apologist, but I hope you can at least take a note of all this.
@Crystal Draffin Oh yeah I know your trying to say now! I completely agree that personally hating on the creator is wrong. I'd originally figured you were trying to protect the rude C!Dream apologists lmao. But yeah that's fair. In a way I understand some peoples anger towards the creator, because this video has made quite the big impact in the community and suddenly there's just people spamming "IT WAS ALL C!TOMMY'S FAULT!! C!DREAM IS INNOCENT!!" all over tiktok, youtube and twitter and people would get pissed off about it. But at the same time, I don't like it at all when there are people who are saying just blatent slurs and death threats to others just because of their opinion. And I do not defend any of that, that's for sure. I think the thing is, is that especially for the DSMP fandom, people take the characters seriously, like as you can see through the comment section, very seriously. And even when people know they're just characters there are those out there who are willing to sacrifice themselves for some characters xD But that's just how it is here I suppose, it's been like this for like a year now. But yeah I do get what you mean! Half the time I guess it'd just gotten confused by what you meant, that's my bad!
@Crystal Draffin All good! You don't need to apologize it was me who interpreted it wrong lmao. But yeah I'm not even a C!Dream apologist but for like a couple weeks after this video came out all I could see was propaganda about how he was doing it all for peace on like every social media and it was craZY. But yeah happy this ended on a peaceful note! I hope you have a nice day/night! :D
Wow that was amazing explanation why the whole war gonna by and the reason for Dream to be the villain. Um ... Can you do the DreamXD cuz I wonder what their reason.
I've actually heard this storyline before. It's about one person willing to take on the hate of all people with the ultimate goal of forcing the people to set aside their differences and unite against the one person.....now what was it again...? OH YEAH, Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion. I wonder if that makes Phill and Techno Dream's Suzakus (also it did legitimately take a whille for me to remember the right anime)
Nice job skipping over the fact that Dream has stated himself that he wanted chaos and destruction. Good job skipping Tommys trauma which was caused by Dream. Good job skipping over how Dream killed Mexican Dream. Good job skipping over him experimenting on human beings.
Lmao glossing over the fact that when dream gets backed into a corner he says how he was tommy friend when he didn’t want that before and then proceeded to use the death of Wilbur
To those who realize that this video is very biased, I've made a video debunking this one! (Yes this is self-advertising, do I regret it? No) If any of you are interested to watch it, here's the link: th-cam.com/video/i0QVuEbhRI8/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=Entropy Godbless and hope you all have a nice day.
Love it ! Finally a complete video about Dream's character motives and not just "he wants control he is the bad guy" Every time people don't ask why does he does all that in the first place. I'm so happy that he's out now. I really like his character ^^
I think that Dream is the villain, whether he wanted peace or not, he forced a 17 year old into exile and psychologically tortured him. Apparently it was for 5 years in canon but who knows the canon timeline at this point. Then Dream he had a massive freakout, tried to kill another 17 year old and ended up getting himself locked up. After making Tommy go through a horrific experience in what was meant to be his last time seeing Dream. Later, after he broke out, Tommy saw a vision literally Dream saying “Then I’ll revive you, and I’ll kill you again” repeatedly. We don’t know if that was just a hallucination or it was just Dream, but either way, it was torture. Whilst in exile, he made Tommy believe he was his friend despite psychologically and physically abusing him, so It’s not the craziest thing in the world when people call him a manipulator. Dream may have had good intentions to begin with, but in the end he still craved power and control over everyone else. You can see it in his character throughout the ‘seasons’. Just because he wanted peace doesn’t mean he isn’t any less of a villain than Wilbur, Techno or Quackity.
For the record, I don’t like canon Tommy either, but I’m not gonna sit here and say that Dream is the good guy because Tommy’s a whiny little bitch (in canon)
I agree except I think he started going to more extreme measures and started to lose it around exile(to be fair he was gonna put skeppy in a cage) I think he started good but was driven mad but now Im forced too rethink that in light of dreams lore he put out AAAHHHHHHHH plus never really believed in good or bad only people with different reasons for doing different things that can be good to one side but bad for the other
dream might not be the biggest bad guy, but concidering the way he reacted, and his thought process towards exiling and pushing tommy to the point of suicide was over the top. and this whole idea of controlling everyone was stupid. do you know what happened to the people who tried to control their childrens lives, or the world? they failed. and most of the time the outcome is bad when you succeed, leading to the children becoming adicted to the things they were forced away from. if they had a balance of free will and rightful disapline it would of been fine and dream wouldnt be a villian. but you cant have peace. ever. you can have close to peace where nothing gets over the top, but never peace. he tried to kill tubbo, a living human being, in order to stop this madness. he was blinded from what reality was. if you become a control freak you might as well be the villian after all. people love free will and you cant just fucking take that away like you did nothing. i hate to break it to you, but dream still is a villian in a way. edit: dont kill human beings to test a fucking book, thanks. also Quackity, and Wilbur and the others are also villians. there is no doubt about it, whether they have reasons or not. but some people like villians and some people dont see it.
sure dream isn't the only bad guy, but when you kill a teen to revive them, just for fun, you're a bad guy. and threaten to do it again and again, even worse. dream stated he wanted power and nothing else, just so he can control the server again.
![[ ออกกอง ] วัยหนุ่ม 2544 โลกหลังลูกกรง..ทัวร์กองถ่ายหนังใน "คุกของจริง" | JUSTดูIT.](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vB--aOkZCpw/mqdefault.jpg)
When my friends ask me the question about who is the bad guy in the Dream Smp, I always tell them that everyone is the bad guy. And when they tell me that Dream is the bad guy I say yes he is, but so is everyone else. The Dream smp is a server of Villains, but with most villains agree on a common enemy.
True!
Have we been watching the same narrative?
If you only watched this video, it cut out a lot of the stuff Dream did.
@@vanairnas exactly. And straight up lies about others. If you ask me This video isn’t an opinion someone actually has. This is an idea that someone tells people outside the fanbase just so they can go “wHEll ActuALlY!” But in actual actuallity its not supported by the story, the writers or even common sense.
If you ask me.
As someone who watched all the lore
Dream is the reason some people are even seen as villains. Technoblade destroying lmanburg was dreams fault. Everything is literally dreams fault. Tf do you mean everyone's a villain? Dreams clearly the only villain except for schlatt and kinda Wilbur.
"You just wanted power.But the thing about this world tommy, that good things dont happen to Heroes" -Technoblade 2020
Somehow I feel like Technoblade's qoute during Manberg and Pogtopia war to tommy is more applicable to Dream
Wow I never thought of it like that, nice observation
100%
go get a life
@@themarxistfrog4504 wtf man?
@@morrborr8931 honestly, me too
inndigos: "dream didn't say anything"
dream: "DON'T KILL ME I HAVE REVIVAL BOOK"
After he'd been murdered twice (while unarmed and everybody stood around watching) and the little murderer was going to take his final life.
@@Raggmopp-xl7yf no shit dream abused him his crime list consists of Child abuse, torture, causing emotional distress, murder, genocide , mass genocide, use of WMDs, necromancy, kidnapping, attempted murder, murder, identity theft, terrorism, RNG manipulation, mistreatment of a POW, destruction of public and private property , stalking of a minor, pubic nudity, nudity Infront of a minor, planned abduction, manipulation of a MP, Treason on 7 accounts, prison break and abuse of power. u really think tommy taking 2 of his lives will ammount to the trauma he put tommy, tubbo, ranboo and all of l'manburg throught
@@isabellemelvin7051 So did everyone else. It was a server of homicidal maniacs that sent the Admin over the edge when he invited them and gave them 3 rules. I'll say it again. Dream's Server, Dream's Rules. If they didn't like it they could leave.
Id love to see you do a deep dive of technoblade
That would be fun!
NGL A Ranboo one would be pretty pog too!
Watch his skywars videos
Trueee
AGREED
i think that whoever’s perspective you watch is the “good guy” so if you watch quackity techno is an unbound anarchist that just wants chaos, while if you watch technos perspective, quackity is a tyrant obsessed with power, but because dream nearly never posts his perspective he is seen as the villain
And that's why we have analysts :D
I have watched all perspectives and made a video about this too and agreed with this youtuber that dream is the good guy he even said it him selves he does this for peace
@@superclark07 nah he said he's a bad guy and he doesn't care
@@fredar1217 sure bud if he don’t care then why would he say he doing all this stuff to get the people friends over objects of a game while he was helping build the prison
@@superclark07 dude he literally said he was a bad guy in the stream when he visited Sam
I love how you explained Dream's point of view and I honestly agree. Dream is not a villain but he's not a good guy, he was trying to find peace but he did do some horrible things to try and reach this goal.
Also, you missed how dream actually planned to be put into the prison. His dialogue with Punz proves this
They missed a lot if things..
@@yellow-ish4200 Tommy almost committing suicide, using people as test subjects, what ever the fuck is going on with ranboo, willing to kill literally anyone if he thinks it will benefit him
@@marlinazul7786 in addition I'm pretty sure that the actual dream wants that !cdream is the most irredeemable villain he can imagine. All of what !cdream says is there in order to make people hesitate, be manipulate and give him information or things they said that he can than use against them when the time is right.
An easy example is that before he has been tortured that he claimed he "changed" and wouldn't do any harm to anyone if they forgave him and that he hopes they'll consider setting him free but when Tommy tried to use those claims against him when they were stuck together he let this phasade crack and admitted that he'll take revenge on anyone who wronged him starting with Tubbo etc.. The same way he used the revival book as a lavage but than admitted that he'll never use it to help any of Tommy's friends when it wasn't convenient anymore to claim otherwise.
!cdream is MEANT to be the villain. He ist meant to be irredeemable through his actions and all the things he claims are his good intentions are there to bring people to hesitate and abusing the fact that the other people's obviously had done bad things too which is an easy thing to do with Tommy even so he actually always tried to do the same thing when he realized his mistakes, his friends are actually important to them and he tried to do better. Tommy is a perfect target because he has also done so much bad which is also a reason why not all people will be on his side and it's easier to turn people against him. Even those he trusted (like Tubbo) through other responsibilities. It's like the joker who abuses an already existing currupted police system. The curruption in the police is ALSO a problem but it's turned into a new extrem when it's being abused by the joker.
!cDream isn't the only bad person on the server and he didn't deserve torture he just deserved and ENDING death (limbo is an awful concept but a great story device) so others are finally save from him.
That's my take on him.
@@Kino_Cartoon nobody cares. Go away lol your just too biased
@@user-wx2cd4jh2k I care
The Dream SMP lore summed up in 2 quotes:
“Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's needs, but not every man's greed.”
― Mahatma Gandhi
"The most dangerous creation of any society is the man who has nothing to lose."
-James Baldwin
Very nice.
More than one probably no fun
- ranboos grandma
Nice quotes
If dream really didn't want Tommy to create chaos on the smp then he could have had him banned in the beginning
@@untitledproduction5153 The dream smp stuff is staged ofc. I remember this being revealed.
This started from a peaceful server just to play, to one of the most lore-filled servers in the entirety of minecraft.
*and i love it.*
Love how you explained the whole lore but from Dreams perspective
There are no villains in this smp, only differents sides of the story lol
True!
Their all morally grey
Indeed
That's what makes it intriguing.
No. that doesn’t make sense 💀 dream is literally an awful person there is no different side of the story to him. You can’t fight on that.
Dream is the embodiment of "The ends justify the means" Everything he ever did was for a peaceful end, but it led him down a less peaceful path to achieve it.
I agree with c!dream up until tommy exile part... Before that he was heavily misunderstood like everyone considered him as a villain when he didn't let c!tommy and Wilbur start independent country on c!Dream's land for drugs. When he blew up lmanberg it was considered as a evil act while when wilbur and techno(in the later part) blew up lmanberg it was poetic and agreed upon. While Wilbur and tommy literally tried to assassinate the rightfully elected president with "if they can't have it no one can" mentality! Like tubbo was killed by techno for starting a new gov that was considered as "not evil" this is just something I don't understand he literally created an evil by doing that. In the end it's all about pov.
Dream's c! is so cryptic about everything and you don't get his pov so it's really hard to defend his actions!
[NOTE]- I don't support his actions during the exile part torturing a child and killing tommy in the prison.
And I understand that his c! is pure evil rn and he deserves to be in prison. But I like him out of the prison because the smp is so dull without him!
Edit- still he is my fav c! now but for different reasons!
The points in exile of blowing up his stuff I can understand to a point but I think that part would have ended but we don't know because Tommy ran away. But there is a lesson to learn if you are going to destroy other people's things why should your not be destroyed. Not to mention most people point to Dream keeping Tommy's friends away as the main problem for the exile and dream didn't do that. He once made Tubbo not show up for Tommy's party that's it. As for killing Tommy in the prison, there is reasonable doubt that Dream had mentally snaps as the person who had destroyed Dream's life was stuck with him in the small space and berated him any time Dream reminded him that Tommy would be stuck with Dream for a week. Then after all that a cat got into the cell and Dream connected with something after being isolated for so long and Tommy went and killed the cat with his bare hands. Not to mention Tommy was talking about the Revival Book was not real the only thing keeping Dream alive. So, either Dream killed Tommy to prove a point or because his mind completely snapped and Dream doesn't remember killing Tommy at all.
Not to make up reasons but at this point anyone who wants Dream's side of the story has to take everything the others say with the large grain of salt ever.
@@katyrjohnson1888 you really think his friend wouldnt let him escape
Dream...was CONTROLED by Nightmare when he tortured,exiled and killer Tommy...
I know imediately all the lore....
I hate that he is in prison for just wanting Peace....
@@katyrjohnson1888 agree for the prison and exile. There are reasons, in prison Tommy would just get out after 7 days (or they thought so) and tell everyone that revival book isn't real and EVERYONE would belive his JUST words, becasue they always do. And the Dream would be dead. I think this is pretty good argument to try to prove that revival book is real and well how do you prove it with as much materials as Dream had at that moment also being chased by the time..... peopel are so blind, you just need some common sense to figure tihs out. And its even more true becasue if Dream really wanted to kill Tommy earlier (just for giggles) he would have done so in the first day. I still think Exile was a try to teach Tommy that what he always does "grief and stole" hurt others so Dream did that to Tommy to show him how it is.. (but that just a theory)
Unfortunately, there are some factual inaccuracies and things being glossed over right from the very first section.
~There was conflict on the server before Tommy arrived. See Dream stealing George's armor because he didn't like that he had better equipment, or the Joffrey Trials.
~Tommy didn't burn Ponk's lemon tree. Sapnap did that alone, after Ponk pranked his house.
~Dream actually endorsed Jschlatt's presidential campaign, and encouraged Quackity in private messages to do the same. He only helped Pogtopia from the shadows so that he could play both sides and make sure that L'Manberg was destroyed. After Dream fought with Techno against L'Manberg on the 16th, he admitted outright that he wanted chaos to win the whole time.
~Dream, along with Puffy, attempted to frame Tommy for multiple griefings before the exile conflict began. The damage Tommy did was also very small compared to what others on the server had done previously, considering the burned roof was a complete accident and he tried to put out the fires as soon as he noticed them.
~Good job glossing over the emotional and physical abuse in exile, which was so severe that Tommy became suicidal.
~Good job glossing over Dream's canonical murder of Mexican Dream.
~Good job glossing over Dream stealing the invitations to Tommy's beach party after intentionally getting his hopes up, all so he could pretend to be Tommy's only friend and make him dependent on him.
~Good job glossing over Dream admitting multiple times that he had *fun* making Tommy's life miserable.
(Dude, exile was comic book levels of villainy. There are countless metas by abuse victims online describing how closely it matches their experiences. You can't spin Dream's actions there as anything other than cruel.)
~Dream didn't suddenly decide to destroy L'Manberg on Doomsday. He planned to do that from the very beginning. He admitted that he was only pretending to be Tubbo's friend the whole time so he could take the discs.
~Dream was showing signs of insanity long before he was tortured in Pandora's Vault. He killed Tommy simply to prove that the revive book was real and immediately declared himself a god. It was revealed in his latest lore video that he also murdered Vikkstar and Lazarbeam, two completely innocent people, so he could experiment on them before he went to prison. (I will say that what Quackity and Sam did was also horrible, and that two wrongs don't make a right.)
Dream might have had good intentions once upon a time, but many of the greatest villains start out with good intentions. Evil is as evil does, and Dream's actions have become worse and worse as time passes. Until he expresses remorse for hurting others and makes an effort to change for the better, he is very solidly a villain.
THSSS
god why are people so blind these days.
Me in my smp :
My friends broke the rules
Me be like:
killing everyone.
Your points are solid but it still doesn't make Dream the main villain since everyone still made a lot of mistakes
It's sort of like hes a method actor or whatever they're called where he played the role so long that he doesn't realize he has become a different person. Although in the end peace usually was the result for a short time whenever Dream was the only enemy.
@@F3lipe-u8x Everyone has made mistakes, but the narrative very much frames Dream as a villain.
Perhaps not the only villain, or even the most destructive - especially not in season 3 where he's mostly helpless.
But he is still definitely a villain, even by his own admission. Hell, he basically called himself the Joker to Tommy's Batman in the disc war finale.
You did forget to add the part where C!Dream faked his own defeat. After the events of Jailbreak, C!Punz and C!Dream met up and talked. Turns out he never betrayed C!Dream and the plan was for him to have broken out ages ago.
You say that dream isn't a villain because all he wanted was peace but in fiction there are many compelling and great villains that are villains because they want peace they just do the wrong methods to make peace. So it is possible that dream is the villain this just gives him a good reason and makes him a compelling villain
!!!
YES
No
@@jazmoons you're (your username) exact opposite of it.
@@blesskurunai9213 ?
I felt that a lot was left out. Dream had already started to go crazy before prison. He also manipulated Tubbo at the same time as Tommy. Saw a different video that described him as a sympathetic villan, I agree with that more.
Yes Dream are not the hero. But nőt the worst man. He has the idea of "greater good" and he wants a united server with any price. Tommy has nő reason for doing the things he did. He is griefing for fun. I know dream manipulated him but he had no other way.
@@barnabasszoke6499 is he’s not the worst who is?
@@marlinazul7786 It's complicated. In the race of the most villainous mans on the server the first would be a draw between Quackity Dream and Tommy
@@barnabasszoke6499 I'm sorry, but putting Tommy on the same level as Dream or Quackity is... laughable.
In what world is griefing and stealing, which every single person on the server *including Dream* has done, morally equal to: kidnapping, manipulation, torture, mass murder, targeted destruction of entire communities, and psychological abuse for personal amusement?
@@i.j.dragonfly3123 Tommy hesitated between his BEST friend and two items. Target destruction of entire communities? He didn't want to destroy the community he wanted to take back his own rightful land. Tommy: drug selling, griefing, living illegally somewhere, escaping from exile, trying to tell a person who trying to make a lawbreaking consequences. The only reason that Tommy didn't kill is that he is losing the real fights(Dream-Tommy duel, Tubbo+Tommy vs Dream). Dream didn't kidnap but tell me when did he if he did. Tommy did most of the stealing and griefing (You can say he gfriefed thrice but the first was on his own land bc L'Manberg wasnt independent yet.). Mass murder? Thats what war is about.
6:50 ok, there is no excuse that can be used to defend dream's actions during the exile. Dream made tommy stay at a certain place, follow rigid rules when the only rule that tommy should follow was not to enter in l'manburg. Dream burned tommy's items, didn't let tommy go to other places, manipulated him into thinking that no one liked him and in the end, he blew up everything that tommy built in the exile. Tommy almost killed himself during the exile.
That's what I thinking
@@ninadoubravova139 me too
Or you just missed the fact that dream blew everything tommy built BECAUSE tommy was hiding his valueable things withing dream knowing. And that's forbidden. You clearly didn't watch the video by the fact that dream burn tommys valueable items because he can use them to break rules and possibly kill him once he is geared up. He didin't let tommy to go in any places because he can run away and hide. And kill dream.
It's basically just simple rules that he can follow. To put it simple
-tommy can't go outside of his place
-tommy must give his valueable items to dream for him to burn
And pretty much that's it
@@cubeguy2844 okay... and how does "oh ctommy would kill him" and "oh ctommy could run away"(he could as long as he didn't enter in l'manburg) justifies the abuse that ctommy suffered from cdream? Cuz like we did NOT watch the same minecraft server for you to defend cdream's actions
@@oliv3rsleepy why did Tommy break the rules, that's was his punishment and if dream didn't burn the stuff how would Tommy would've gotten punishment
This is very well made and the narration is really good!
Dream's character never fails to impress/surprise me..
I hope you make more of these videos! :)
I think there is something that has to be mentioned: Dream essentially is a villain. His objective is morally good, but his actions aren't.
Say you have a child, and you cannot afford enough food and money to live. Murdering the child would certainly solve the problem (legal consequences aside), but is it morally okay? Or are you the villain?
Up until the first war for independence, I would have agreed, but his strive for control make him corrupt and a bad person. Dream essentially is a greater example of what Sam has been doing.
@Lol95gamer Again, according to this video, he has good intentions, but the morally wrong methods to approach it.
@Lol95gamer Therefore a villain?
@Lol95gamer i agree
@Simi Saiye Well that are the only things dream can do to bring peace. You can't just talk it over, nobody will listen to him
I say the right term would be "Morally grey", like everyone else is
Nice argument though it skips over a few finer points like what's up with Ranboo and the issue of the egg. However it's possible that Dream at least started out with this purpose in mind. I think a parallel can be drawn between this idea of Dream and what's happened to Sam. In fact I think this theme happens to a lot of the characters so it makes sense that Dream's character would be one. I would add an argument for the whole "power corrupts" idea in that Dream power as the villain may have gone to his head.
Argument for the power going to his head part is that most of his super villian level stuff happens after he gets the revive book, which you don't really talk about.
Well now we know Dream was mind controlling Ranboo. So that’s more evil to add onto a lake of evil.
to me, Dream is a person who was good, and then went down a villainous path
Yes Tommy is the reason that dream become a villain
@@cpanrusty5187 no lmao don't pin it on Tommy
@@jazmoons But is really was the reason
@@topp7064 not rlly
@@jazmoons imean this would have not happen if he did not burn the lemon tree how will dream enjoy his lemonade without lemons thats how tommy started all of this
I love how we just skipped over the emotional abuse and manipulation during exile
LITERALLY! we're just gonna gloss over that?
Ye I understand but the reason dream become evil was because of tommy dream was peaceful
@@Miyamura_wannabe what...? that doesnt excuse literally manipulating and abusing someone?
@@lovieheart981 i wonder u never read the entire thing tommy is the reason dream turned everyone is the villian cause everyone was just like dream
EVEN QUACKITY ARE WE NOT GONNA TALK ABOUT THAT
@@chaoz7729let me make sure you understand, if dream was "turned" into the villian by tommy, did tommy "make" him the villian BEFORE or AFTER his exile? If before, still quite literally doesnt excuse abusing and manipulating someone. If after, you literally can't try to defend him.
I never thought Dream was a bad guy- he’s kind, and just wanted peace. And he had to take some drastic steps. TOMMY is the reason everything went into flames
Yeah, but that’s from Dream’s perspective, and this video mostly talked from Dream’s perspective. I am going to be so honest, if you’ve seen the whole Tommy’s perspective, your opinion will completely change.
@@hawai567 meh they both did a lot of bad things, but it really was Tommy who started the whole thing, like sure he wasn’t to blame with everything but there were definitely moments where he kept the conflict going. And yeah I’ve watched his videos too and I don’t hate Tommy he can be pretty funny but there’s no denying he’s chaotic. Like the first thing he did when he joined the server was going around labeling other peoples houses and property as his lol. Then he burnt down ponks lemon tree at some point. And an example of when he could have just let the conflict/fighting stop was when he traded his discs for l’manburgs independence. Like he gave them away willingly. But then later tried to steal them back. That was like signing a peace treaty and then ripping it to shreds. They got what they wanted, they had independence there was no reason for him to just take them back. Sorry I’m probably rambling by now. Fair warning it’s like 3am right now so I probably won’t even remember I wrote this in the morning lol.
@@ShotoTodoroki-qs3ip I see that many people try to bring "Tommy stared it all." Yes, that is true but really, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. Why? That's because we're talking about who caused the most problems in the SMP.
I am going to give The L'Manburg's Independence war was an example. Dream declared the war because he thought that L'Manburg would cause chaos later in the server. Well, I couldn't really see the point of this war since they could've just kept being peaceful. The point here that I'm trying to say is that, Dream had a little selfishness because L'Manburg was just a tiny part of his SMP and there was no reason to destroy L'Manburg.
You said that Tommy tried to steal back the discs after he gave it to Dream after the war. Well, do you understand how much he liked that disc? Remember that he just HAD to give away the discs in order to protect L'Manburg. Again, this leads to my first statement that Dream started the war for particularly no reason. It makes sense that he wants to get back his discs because he was upset that he had to give away the discs just to protect L'Manburg independence, but the war would've never happened if Dream just didn't decide to do it.
My final conclusion is this. IF I had to pick ONLY one villain in the Dream SMP, it would probably be Dream. Just like you said, Tommy did continue the conflict, but Dream punished him even more. The damage that Dream caused to the server has to be bigger than the damage that Tommy (and everyone else of course) caused to the server.
If you watch the Dream SMP from beginning to end, the lines in the sand are clear.
Dream starts off as a dictator who declares war on a peaceful country, and he only gets worse. Tommy starts off as a troublemaker, and he becomes the server’s greatest hero.
@@calvinjohnson6242 Nah, even though he is my favorite character, I just can’t call him a hero.
Yeah, it ends that Tommy did try to save the SMP for sacrificing his own life, at the very end. But do you remember that they talked a little bit before the “incident” happened?
They discussed why they were almost always against each other, and why we treated each other as an enemy from the beginning.
“Why can’t it just be simple again?”
Dream’s characteristics were better when the server started. It just got worse as the time passed.
All he wanted was a peaceful server in the beginning.
Dream definitely acknowledges himself as a villain at that time. But he just didn’t like that Tommy always tries to state that he is always in the right side.
The thing is, the only major problem with Tommy is that he never really had actually time to fully discuss with Dream, and he never really tried to understand his perspective the whole time.
Tommy’s existence was so annoying for Dream. He was the only person who didn’t listen to him no matter what he mostly says about. For Dream, Tommy was the one who always made the server fall apart.
That’s maybe one of the reasons why Dream couldn’t hide his villainy.
It was already too late. The “incident” was already about to happen. Tommy regretted his choice at the very last minute. You can tell it by his face expression.
Tommy and Dream’s relationship was very complex. They could’ve been friends from the very beginning. Turned out that they became the biggest enemies of each other, which is really sad but also disappointing.
Are you not going to mention Dream didn't even allow him to do a simple thing like let Tommy see a Christmas tree when Tommy was thinking about committing suicide by jumping into lava • c • My sadistic man Dream asked Tommy what death felt like after he killed him.
I feel like at some point in the story they need to do lore that shows that c!Dream is still human. A human that has done horrible, twisted things. But so is c!Quackity, c!Wilbur, and so many other people on the server. Yet, none of them get painted as the bad guy.
its cause of how the people of the server see them and how they look at their POV
For c! Quackity he isnt a villain He is a anti villain
@@audyi.siregar7713 no, he’s still a villain himself.
@@catfish64115 proof?
Mostly because (well C!Wilbur is kind of debatable) C!Quackity has a somewhat valid reason, C!Dream doesn’t. From what we’ve seen (I’m saying this because not much of Dream’s POV has been revealed if you wanna cut out the revival book video) he does it for fun.
he did not do all for peace, but for his own ego
YES GOD YES
*The road to Hell is paved with good intentions*
Yes!
this quote is very accurate in many situations.
While I can’t say that Dream is the Villain, because everyone in the Smp has their own perspectives and flaws, he definitely is an antagonist of some sort. His actions may, ultimately be for the greater good. It’s not justified because there were so many ways he could’ve gone about creating peace. Additionally, what you said about Dream having good intentions can no longer be applied after he escaped from prison solely because he’s still going after Tommy. While it can be said that yeah after spending a couple years in a lonely Jail cell while a duck man comes in to beat you up everyday for a revival book Isn’t great for your mental health -and Dream is probably at least a little bit unhinged I can’t say he still has good intentions.
Well I don't even think he cares anymore and is going for revenge. He just recently kept sam locked up in prison and that Quackity is next. While it doesn't explain tommy it shows that Dream is not after peace right now but instead revenge.
@@Shadow-yh5qo I don't know if that's the case at the moment. After the jailbreak, he met up with C!Punz, and they share a moment, and it shows that C!Dreams defeat in the Finale (Vault Encounter as I call it), was faked. To be fair as well, C!Sam and C!Quackity are not good people, and C!Dream didn't lock up C!Sam, it was the Revengers.
C!Quackity is one I would consider the most villainous at the moment, because his motives have been literally shown to be power, and he will do anything to get that power. If anything, I would believe C!Quackity should be the one that is locked up.
C!Sam became corrupted by his job as warden, he literally tore off someones arm to get back keycodes that didn't even work anymore. He allowed C!Quackity to torture C!Dream, and constantly tries to rationalise it as good. I think C!Sam lost sight of his morals while in the prison.
@@corruptsolstice340 ur right bro I agree
@@corruptsolstice340 c!Quackity's actions are definitely despicable, but his motives are much more complicated than just "power."
He has a long history of being pushed around by more powerful characters on the server. Even though he only wanted to do good things for L'Manberg, c!Schlatt treated him like garbage, c!Wilbur blew up the country, c!Techno tried to kill them all with withers, and c!Dream threatened and manipulated them into exiling one of his best friends. He has spent much of his time on the server living in fear, and he's lost every home he ever had.
Now, he only wants to be stronger to stand up to those people, prove that he won't be messed with again, and have a safe home for himself and the ones he loves. In fact, the streamer even said that his character's greatest desire is to have somewhere he can belong.
There are plenty of powerful or power-hungry characters on the server, but it's far more interesting to look at the reasons *why* they want power:
c!Dream wants everyone to be unified and peaceful, even if he has to take away everything they love that causes conflict.
c!Techno wants everyone to be liberated from government, even if he has to use extreme force to destroy it for good.
c!Sam wants to keep the server safe and orderly, even if he loses his integrity and his relationships in the process.
c!Bad wants to stay together with his best friend, even if he has to sacrifice others to the whim of an evil entity.
And c!Quackity wants to protect himself and his friends from being hurt again, even if he has to hurt his enemies in horrific ways.
They've all used their power badly before, but the point is that none of them wanted that power purely for its own sake. No one ever does.
8:35 I can feel Dream's anger trying to get peace to the server. I feel bad for him in prison.
6:07 "Our king"
i can agree dream isnt the villian up untill tommy's exile
and u glossed over alot of the bad he did like killing tommy in prison and ALOT in tommy's exile and tormenting tommy right when he got out of prison and more
And the fact that they completely leave out the fact that Tommy is a minor & Dream literally almost drove him to committing suicide by isolating & manipulating him into thinking he was alone & that everyone else hated him.
@Crystal Draffin Because it's makes Dream a Child Abuser
Yeah he isn’t just starting to be the “ villain” after the prison he May have started of with good intentions but eventually he kinda broke and stopped caring at all
@@lusacusmighy3938 in what way? Real life rules don't apply
@@lusacusmighy3938 also he was 16. Stop glossing over the fact Tommy chose to be cocky and test dream even though he wasn't going to have an exile if he listened to the negotiations.
Damn the ending was just like what u said he only wanted peace and every
thing to be peaceful again DAMNN
I love how there isn’t a mention that dream killed Tommy and brought him scaring him for life, for fun 😂
Exactly! She didn't mention anything about exile, about how dream is making ranboo going insane, how he said to tommy "I'm going to make your life a living hell"
How HE wanted to make people think that he really changed while he is making tommy going crazy
How he made a trap in his house
How he killed 2 people for the reviving book
And there is more
Bro for real though 😂😂😂
Finally, one comment that's not extreme cap. The creator of this video clearly thinks Tommy is the villain when dream is the real villain.
It wasn't for fun. It was never for fun. It's all for the greater good. Like author said, as long as there is Tommy, there can never be peace. Tommy was the cause of the most of the problems on the SMP. Exile had to be done. Away from his friends, Tommy was never able to ruin the peace. That's why he was willing to let Tommy live in Techno's house. Because he knew that could never ruin the peace. He never wanted Tommy dead back then. He only wanted Tommy away from the server.
Tommy was never able to hold peace. Exile does not matter. One life of a teen is a worthy sacrifice for the greater good.
But Tommy was never anything but selfish. He never cared about anything besides himself, Tubbo and his discs. That's why Dream chose to not only kill Tommy but give him the punishment he deserved.
Dream wanted to keep killing and reviving Tommy, just like Tommy kept killing and Dream kept reviving the peace at the server.
Actually, Dream wanting peace also explains one of the reasons why he trapped himself in the prison. It was an experiment. Dream was locked away, but the peace was never there. Dream is not the reason chaos is happening. Tommy is. While Dream is an antagonist, he's not a villian. He was never a villian in the first place
@@charadr33murr because he IS a child
If now he is 17-18
How old do you think he was at the first war??
All it takes is 1 event to start a chain reaction that never ends
Therapist: Don't Worry, The DSMP Lore can't hurt you.
The DSMP Lore:
THIS! I firmly believe that his entire motivation is uniting the server. He confided in Punz that the end result of their plan was a “happy family”. Even Punz himself said that they would return the server to “how it was before”. His spiral is tragic, especially with his ends justify the means mindset, and throwing himself away in the process.
i don't agree with this. If you watch the youtube chanel game theory long enough, you start to realize that they begin to exaggerate and twist the story slightly to get to their end goal (sans is ness theory *cough cough*). If you think of yourself living a hundred years, a canon life is about 33 years on the dream smp. dream has taken (dreamhastaken lol) ALL THREE of tommy's canon lives, killed ghostbur, killed mexican dream, tortured a CHILD in exile after being betrayed by his best friend whom HE manipulated him to, and while you can say that tommy has been in nearly every single conflict on the server, GUESS WHO ELSE WAS ALSO IN THE CONFLICTS? DREAM. dun dun duuuuuuuuuuuuh. :0 I'm a firm believer in the fact that mostly everyone in the dsmp is pretty evil, but dream is by far the worst.
I don't think kidnapping, torturing and killing Vikstar and Lazarbeam can be justified (or even explained) by Dream's supposed goal to reunite the server.
Other things that show that Dream is not just morally grey character but a straight up villain:
•When Sam asked Dream why he killed Ghostbur and brought Wilbur back, Dream said, "I wanted to torture Tommy."
•"You're too much fun."; "I'm playing with my food."; "I'm going to make your life a living hell." admitting this to Tommy to his face that he's just an entertainment and there's no other goal to abusing him but for the sick joy of it
•At the topic of Tommy, why would Dream go after him, setting trap in his house, try to capture him at Logstedshire after prison breakout, if his goal was reuniting the server? Tommy is not even doing anything, he just exists and lives. There are people that are far more disrupting of peace than he is
Borderline, is that he is a villain without all the big, dramatic words. Y'all really sound so close to a cdream apologist man. He did all that try to justify what he did was necessary and right but lmao he's just like any other serial killer in the world, thinking what they did was right even if they killed someone just because they so much as wipe their mouth wrong. And now he's strayed from his "path" and just wants to torture ppl for fun.
@@silentteyz2912 but the thing is that he has to traumatize everyone to get his "end goal" y'know. "The server can be a big family again" was what he said a few days before killing Tommy in the prison. I can't stand anyone who wants to defend him.
@@superrobloxer2587 Neither do I can understand why people try to excuse pr sympathize with c!Dream after all what he has done. He's a great villain - very enjoyable - so just sit back and appreciate the acting of cc!Dream who was able to nail such a immoral character
I don't see dream as a pure villain or a broken hero, rather an anti villain
This hits different after Tommy's finale
NOPE IT DOESNT STILL HATE HIM EVEN MORE
@@isabellemelvin7051 yes it does because what the finale was basically Tommy and Dream getting sick of doing bad things to each other and wanted everything to stop but at that point there was nothing they could do. Almost everyone hates them, gone insane, or doesn't care anymore.
In the end the peace they now wanted couldn't become true because everyone and everything was to far gone form what it was before everything.
Dream himself said cDream is the villain.
@@cupcake1q_Gacha But at least it ended in a good way. They wanted to just make the server “simpler” again, and it did, it restarted, all of the memories are gone, and they can start over.
but hey thank tommy for creating one of the coolest wars and plot to the dream smp
I agree with this theory I try to tell my friends but they still think dream is the villain but Dream has done more severe things but tommy and the others have done more bad thing then Dream. And if dream is a villain the so would the rest of the server. Yes dream did awful things but for the sake of Peace. And Wilbur, Tommy, Tubbo, Quackity they are for it for power so who is the villain in this story? The answer is no one. (Btw this is only a theory not cannon or is it either way it's just a theory A LORE Theory)
Well first off, this isn’t a theory, it’s an opinion, the main reason Dream is a villain is we don’t see is POV, and the first time we have, he wasn’t that good of a guy gonna be honest, and most of what you said is the case, until the exile arc, he is a manipulator, he manipulated Tommy into thinking he was the only person who cared for him, didn’t tell Tubbo & the rest of L’manberg Tommy was alive, no harm could have came if Tommy saw people, none..Tommy isn’t a hero, he’s a kid, a kid who has had his life completely ruined, the last few Tommy lore streams proves Dream is a villain, he’s ruining Tommy’s mental state, I believe with most villains in media, they were justified UNTIL they step too far, and Dream has stepped to far
@@onagle_9279 why is no one thinking like this? Thank you. Also why don't you have more likes? Like I'm the first one?!
@@yellow-ish4200 a lot of people actually think like this actually !! we have a whole group agreeing , lmao
@@onagle_9279 I agree with this comment
THE MOMENT I SAW THE THUMBNAIL I KNEW IT WAS A DREAM STAN
(All about characters)
So, not to be rude or anything, but you miss out on a lot of details that differentiate Dream from any of the others that could be considered villainous. Not even Techno, or Quackity, or Sam could compare to Dream because he's gone way too far.
First point: "Tommy had started all the conflict". Incorrect. Before Tommy had even joined the server, Dream had gotten angry at George for having slightly better gear in the early days, and iirc killed him to destroy his armour so everyone else could keep up. And Tommy did bring some problems, sure, but he was not the main cause of wars and conflict. Wanna know who was? Sapnap. In fact, he's the character who has caused the most conflicts directly, and most of them Tommy was dragged into by Sapnap.
If we're bringing the SMP rules into this, then Dream broke his own rules far worse than Tommy or Wilbur or whoever could. When Tommy had (rightfully) taken his discs back because Dream had stolen (broken his own rules already, I see), he hid them. Dream then griefed Tommy's entire front lawn in order to search for the discs, despite the war having been resolved by that point because of the fair trade they ended up doing in the end. So, Dream re-engaged a war for no reason other than... having control over Tommy? Also, in the early days, Dream would literally stalk Tommy and had tunnels under his house in attempts to take his discs back. Who's the one disrupting peace again?
Then, L'manburg. I'll admit, it was... not the best, but it wasn't as if it was causing many problems. They hadn't even tricked many people into giving them their brewing stands and all that, it was like... so easy to see through their attempts. Then, Dream unnecessarily started a war against them (hmm, I wonder who's disrupting the peace). Let me tell you: L'manburg didn't steal land, and it was in fact the most tiny land. Hell, Punz's house was bigger than L'manburg, and it's not like L'manburg had some resources in the walls that only they could get. So, Dream literally had no reason to attack them other than... what, his convoluted definition of peace? Yeah, sounds great.
Manburg era. Dream had endorsed Schlatt the moment he ran for presidency in the elections, despite... him clearly showing evil signs. Seriously, if Dream wanted peace and L'manburg to stay in its little boxed off area, why the hell did he endorse Schlatt? Dude's a walking, talking cartoon villain and everyone could see that. Also, just pointing it out here: Quackity's want for power stems from him being abused and sexually assaulted by Schlatt during Manburg (yes, Schlatt abused + sexually assaulted Quackity). He was left powerless, and he had genuinely just wanted to help L'manburg, but then Schlatt got control and he couldn't stop him.
Pogtopia wasn't a nation btw, it was a revolution stemmed from like 2 exiled people just wanting their homes back. Also, Technoblade had offered to help them first, despite them clearly showing no signs of wanting anarchy, so Techno... can't really complain? Anyways, getting off track. Once Schlatt was dead, they elected Tubbo because they saw him as a fair president. I mean, Tubbo was pretty fair, much better than Schlatt or Wilbur could be. Then... Techno and Dream blew L'manburg up? Wait, what? Didn't Dream want peace? Why was he helping destroy the nation despite having helped them reclaim it?
Anyways, exile conflict. For context, Tommy had zero clue that he was the VP, and in fact said that he'd given up the position of president to finish his conflict with Dream. He told Tubbo that he wouldn't be his VP until he got his conflict finished with Dream. He actively didn't want to be associated in a position of power in order to finish whatever he still had with Dream. Then, Dream and Puffy went around, griefing buildings and blaming it on Tommy. If you watch Tommy's VOD back, they hadn't meant to destroy portions of George's house, but even then... George himself admitted it wasn't much and that he could fix it, which he did in under ten minutes.
Dream then pressured L'manburg into exile, despite people having agreed that Tommy would be put on probation, and he built walls around L'manburg. During the meeting where they agreed on probation, Dream was sending whispers to Tommy, taunting him with ":)" messages. He was actively taunting Tommy, and of course Tommy would lash out against that, because Dream was targeting him specifically just to get him seem like he was lashing out for no reason. Then, when Tommy was forced to be exiled (otherwise L'manburg would... be slaughtered if they tried leaving the walls, have their armour taken, etc etc. Geez, Dream sure wants peace, doesn't he? Sounds very peaceful to have people patrolling and killing if they tried leaving), Dream had changed the rules of the exile. Exile was a straight up kidnapping, because he brought Tommy to a specific location, despite the agreement of exile being... anywhere but L'manburg.
Dream abused, gaslit, and manipulated Tommy in exile. He came every day to blow up his things, which isn't a peaceful thing to do at all, just for control over Tommy. I don't care how much peace you want, abusing a teenager isn't right no matter what you say. Then, while this was happening, he was manipulating Tubbo to be his friend so that he could get the disc from him and have even more control over Tommy. Remember the "I just wanna say, you're an idiot" speech? Yeah, that's not very peaceful, now is it? He's shifting so much blame on to Tommy because he can't dare to admit that maybe he was the one creating conflict, not Tommy.
He then helped with Doomsday, which wasn't a peaceful event, and canonically lasted for 3 days. Yes, 3 days. People had to fight and suffer and watch tnt rain from the skies for three days, all for """peace""". Man, Dream, your peace is starting to sound more like... hm, what was it? Oh yeah, tyranny. Then, he went on to build the disc finale area, and all of that played out. Also, I don't care what you say, threatening to kill someone is a form of mental torture. So, he was mentally torturing Tubbo by threatening to kill him and then lock Tommy up, even if it wasn't true due to the staged finale being canon. Oh, and while all of this was happening, guess what? He was killing and reviving two totally innocent people over and over to learn how revival works. Hm, very peaceful, yes that is so peaceful indeed.
Then, he escaped. Guess what he did straight away? Went for Tommy after getting gear from Punz. He hunted Tommy down for roughly 10 minutes irl time, all while taunting and acting like it was a game of some kind.
Now that you've read all that, does Dream really seem like the good guy? No, he's a villain. Yes, Wilbur, Techno, Schlatt, Quackity and Sam are/were all villains. But guess what? None of them can compare to Dream's level of evil, because guess what? Dream has gone so far for his plans, all for... """peace""", which I seriously doubt at this point. Do you wanna know what I think he really wants? Control. That's all he wants. Just control. He doesn't care about peace, and actively breaks his own rules. Yeah, talk about peace.
So, go ahead. Try tell me that Dream's not the villain.
don't think I have agreed more with a comment. Like yes the server is based on the idea of multiple perspectives, which is what makes it so interesting. But you cannot sit here and tell me that c!Dreams "peaceful" intentions at the start of the server are not just his lust for control.
I also hate when people just blindly blame c!Tommy for starting conflicts when he just gets dragged into it most of the time, just because he has a loud and abrasive persona.
Thank you so much for this.
Yes, there is no definitive black or white morality. Yes, the Dream SMP is made up of shades of grey. But the thing is, not all shades of gray are the same.
The difference between characters runs as wide as slightly smudging pencil lead on white paper, to scribbling so hard that your pencil breaks. And Dream has collected a gigantic pile of broken pencils, with no erasers in sight.
Whatever his nebulous goals of "unity" may be, he crossed the line when he manipulated justice so he could abuse a teenager to the point of attempting suicide, and then again when he admitted over and over that he *enjoyed* doing so. And until he expresses remorse for those actions and makes serious attempts to reform, I will never consider him a hero.
i agree with this one as well, if this video is an essay that i would grade, it would most likely be a B at best since it has left out/with held/inaccurately stated information without any supporting videos to show if it were true. im just tired of so many fans of the lore that glossed over everything that made c!dream THE villain of the story. what he had done and will done in the future are already irredeemable even to c!wilbur, c!techno, c!quackity and every big bad villains have done before.
I agree. c!Dream have multiple times admitted that he had fun making c!Tommy's life miserable.
+ Another supporting point of him being a villain is the fact it was revealed in his latest lore video that he also murdered Vikkstar and Lazarbeam, two completely innocent people, so he could experiment on them before he went to prison to test the revive book.
That's not somebody who wants "peace" would do. Somebody can have/started with good intentions, and still be an villain.
@@nikitajeevanath248 yeah they take tommy's recklessness and exploit it, blaming him even though it isn't even close to being his fault. Tommy's house has been griefed so many countless times and then George's house gets ruined once it immediately deserves exile like, what? make it make sense
I think you missed a valuable part where dream stole everyone's stuff
Yea, This vid has some good points but didnt mention some of the bad deeds, Hes literally just taking evryones belongings including taking their pets hostage.
@@agamerdude7596 hey pal i kbow this is 2months ago but didnt he say that tommy who started the chaos? For me dream was just want some peace! Like if the whole server turn on dream its ok for dream because she just want some peace!!! In dream deep side she is so happy because of the server turning on her and thats peace! I mean yeah he stole some of stuff but he just want some peace of the srver dream just want the server what like before tommy join....
@@yoriichi697
Dream said his character is supposed to be evil.
His character is built to be the villain.
@@alana0_046 yep thats before tommy join
@@alana0_046 then it's a bad writing then!
uh you shouldn’t excuse the abuse? mentally and physically. C!Dream didn’t NEED to emotionally manipulate c!Tommy or physically abuse him. He wanted C!Tommy to be alone and wanted him to feel some sort of pain. More like break C!Tommy’s spirits? C!Dream isn’t the only villain but he still is an important one. C!Dream went off the deep end after while and now he is a maniac. /rp /dsmp
I think you should watch the final stream of dream smp season 1
@@seemasrivastava3991 bro I posted this 7 months ago lol obviously my views have changed a bit tho I haven’t really had motivation to watch final lore streams so sorry if my views here turned out wrong. Just what I thought a couple months ago.
@@seemasrivastava3991 Dream wanting friends doesn't justify anything he did, he's still a bad guy
@@entirelytoxic Oh no its fine I was joking any way. No need to say sorry
@@pandasrcoolll7587 I am not saying that he is not bad the point is that so is everyone. Nobody is the villain and nobody is the hero
I'm agreeing with this, They've been pinning him as the *Villain,* his just like a *Broken Hero* (actually not a broken hero, I just forgot what it was ー
he truly just wants the server to be united, and he does try to protect Sapnap and George. He does it with villainous means though
@@walmartmiku yeah true
I agree that he wanted peace...from the beginning but as time went on I think he became a Villain.
He literally Manipulated, tortured and abuse a Child to the point where Tommy almost commited Suicide plus after the prison break he literally chases Tommy and he admitted many times that he had fun playing with Tommy (By playing is tortured)
He is literally actively going to make Tommy life HELL and some sort of obsession over him, He is the definition of a VILLAIN an Child Abuser Villain.
He lost it so bad
Dream always meant for C!Dream to be this irredeemable villain. It's why we've never seen his pov up until now, so we wouldn't sympathise with him.
Well look how that turned out, haha.
Also in new lore Dream is starting to make Tommy insane? Tommy was so traumatised by Dream that he freaked out and was scared of sapnap and asked sap nap to take his armour in fear of being hurt. He was making Tommy disassociate and hallucinate. And in the recent lore Tommy runs to Phils only to see a sign saying "I got him too :)" left by Dream, I think Drean USED to want peace, and was trying to keep things peaceful, but now I think he's just gone mad and torturing Tommy for his own fun.
He wanted peace but overtime he realized how fun it was ruining other peoples lives
Dunno if you'll see this, but I love the theory you have!
I was wondering if you could do Eret, since I don't see much on them in a while.
My theory is that Eret is Herobrine's kid, but that Dream knew about this because all his actions towards Eret was more like him trying to keep Eret away from the others and this makes sense because Foolish and Dream are canonical siblings so it would make sense that Dream knows the truth and others but they can't say anything and that gives the idea that there is a much bigger threat that is listening and waiting.
YES THANK YOU I'm so glad someone finally made a video explaining all this stuff I leave it to you XD No one freaking listens and accepts and they make fun of me for defending him and it's very frustrating. I really like how you put it together the phrasing makes a lot of sense!!
im a c!Dream apologist- i believe theres more to his story no matter what he's done.
team dream @everyone team dream
But y'know when there's peace there's always chaos too history will always repeat itself if there's still one person who's greedy for power and control.
I have always stayed on dreams side because all he wants was peace, I seen this and no one understands so thank you you puting this together, now I can show my friend that dream was never the villain
How can someone be so lawfully evil while acting to chaotic? Dream is truly an enigma😂❤
My only question is why doesn't dream just let the chaos blow over? I know it may seem like a dumb question but we've seen this before, people become exhausted and stop fighting. Perhaps the members need to learn a lesson? But if dream does let chaos ensue, he will most likely use it as an excuse that he can be peaceful and then the server will trust him again. Plus if people end up losing lives to the conflict, dream can just revive them and then people will trust him even more. Just a few theories.
@electron5501 :D
This is just my opinion, but I don't think that the idea "letting the whole SMP be thrown into chaos and then reviving them if they die will make it better".
1. The majority of the SMP members already sees Dream as the villain of the story.
2. If he does let the chaos take over, one faction will reign over others and even more countries or group or community would pop up for the sake of taking down the reigning faction (this can be seen even in IRL).
3. Those who are permanently dead wouldn't be grateful nor trustworthy to Dream if he does revive them (keep in mind that not the entire sever knows about Dream's ability to revive people).
4. If Dream does use the revival book after the chaos had pass, those who knew that dream had such ability (especially those who are obsessed with powers) will continue to torture him for his ability, since more people now knows about the book they share the same goals and the chaos would restart all over again.
5. No matter how you see it, there is no possible solution to a peaceful sever where no one would want more power than others (I think we've seen too many instances of that already 😅), and it's important to remember that the SMP isn't only filled with humans, we had gods and people who can use special powers.
But either way, this is just my theory. Maybe there really is a way for peace to co-exist for the members.
i rlly like that idea like why doesnt he just let the chaos blow over, when something biig happens amongst themselves, then they'll be begging Dream to come back and do what he does best, end it all.
@@jeannemoreno7034 I dont think that would work. They hunted C!Techno down even when he went into hiding and was peaceful. I am pretty sure they'd do the same for C!Dream.
When there's peace there's also chaos it will never end and history will always repeat itself.
i dont want to be rude or anything but isn't this a bit too incorrect for a character analysis/essay?
the first point is already incorrect with the mentality of "c!tommy is the root of all conflicts or conflicts that led up to the current situation" which is already a red flag when creating a character analysis on a character that is as compelling and irredeemable as dream. what's even more confusing was when you mentioned that sapnap and tommy burned ponk's lemon tree, you then said that sapnap turned to tommy for help? that, in itself, meant that sapnap dragged tommy which means that it was SAPNAP, dream's FRIEND, who started it all. did they have an all-out war from it? yes, but the two main causes were ponk and sapnap, tommy was only dragged into their conflict because of his general attitude as a gremlin. so, tommy is not really the "true start" of the dream smp lore. may i add that dream's server wasn't really peaceful from the start, if i remember it correctly, dream destroyed (or was it taken) george's armor because he was jealous of it in a sense? then they have a literal trial for it with badboyhalo as the judge, and this was BEFORE tommy even joined the server, so really, dream already disrupted peace before it really kicks off. now, to the part of dream taking tommy's discs, it would have been more rational for dream to take, i dont kno, sapnap's valuables than the child who got dragged in the first place, as it to become some sort of alibi for the two to stop the war since tommy followed sapnap. additionally, after the fight for the discs, dream was already far gone from his idea of "uniting the server and making it peaceful" when he stalked, griefed and tried to steal tommy's discs DURING peace time and BEFORE wilbur ever joined the server. that, in of itself, is already breaking his own goal.
second point, l'manburg, while it was silly and unneccessary, let's take in the fact that the former country was even smaller than punz's property which means there's not much to it to l'manburg other than it was (to be blunt) a pathetic nation to begin with. so there's no reason for dream to cause as big as a conflict on a nation that will only dry itself off without his hand on it. their attempts in bringing in more members of the nation are more of close friends in a group or their attempts in doing so are comedically ridiculous. so, his method of gaining peace is, once again, questionable.
third point, elections and pogtopia, once again I want to reiterate, dream has once again caused more chaos than needed by ADMITTING he and techno (with wilbur's help) blew up l'manburg, and even liked it because it was a mean for HIM to win. and to start, why didn't he banned schlatt again if he saw how bad his intentions were? even if its within l'manburg, there's still a possibility that the greater dream smp would be dragged by schlatt's actions. he did it once, he should have done it again. what techno said to tommy? it's also applicable to dream, "dont you (dream) see how history repeating itself? you think schlatt (tommy) was the cause of your problems? no, it was government (dream's blooming tyrannical rule)."
fourth point, george's burned down house. now this is just full of misinformation, and i want you to rewatch the streams in both tommy's and puffy's perspectives to make sense why it's misinformation. but if you want to see my reason why i called it as that, here's my reason: both puffy and dream griefed so many buildings and made it look like tommy was the cause of it, they already planned to stage him for an uproar before he accidentally griefed george's house. speaking of george's house, time and time again, what he and ranboo did was a pure accident when it comes to burning it, stealing? yeah that was their original intention but never the burning part. you mentioned the rules of which the first two was broken by the person who made those rules, so why did tommy have that heavy of a punishment when time and time again, others did the same thing and even DREAM did the SAME thing as tommy but he did it with malicious intentions. and even then, the damage werent that severe compared to, once again, tommy's constantly griefed house, even george mentioned that it wasnt that bad and that he fixed it under 10 or so minutes.
fifth point, the walls surrounding new l'manburg. what dream did was ridiculous because, again, HE didnt RESPECT his OWN rules, add in that he didnt let george say his opinion about his griefed house despite being the owner and victim of tommy and ranboo's actions. if hes going for diplomatic route, he should have talked to tubbo before he build the walls as to talk about tommy's punishment. probations alone should be enough due to the fact that dream and puffy already griefed buildings and framing it as tommy's actions even though tommy was the vice president (speaking of vice presidency, tommy mentioned before that he will not take any government position unless he got his discs back from dream, meaning that he doesnt want to drag l'manburg into conflict because of the postion of being the second most powerful in l'manburg), shouldn't that be the same magnitude of a punishment for dream (and puffy) to have since they were falsely accusing a government official? especially since dream was george's right hand man, the KING'S right hand man. so, really dream, AGAIN, disrupted peace with severe actions and such idiotic reasons. additionally, you only blamed tommy for the burning when ranboo was also there as well, if you say that tommy is as bad as you make him out to be, then why did he adamant in defending ranboo during the trial?
sixth point, exile. you saying "call it cruel, but this is for the greater good of the dream smp" literally downgrades the effects on tommy's mentality in his exile and the action he inflicted on a child. in fact, you have glossed over this entire point, and noticing how it's the shortest argument in the video, i'd say this is your weakest point in the video with full of plotholes. look, im not intending to sound mean and condescending, but exile is such a turning point in the story. first, he didn't create peace, he didnt say anything about tommy's deteriorating condition or blatantly lied about it, he only said what new l'manburg would like to hear as so they dont serve as distractions to his abuse on tommy. second, there's no violence as far as dream knows, dream was there for techno's execution, isnt he? doesnt that mean he somehow knew about it and called punz so that he can gain a favor from techno, whos one of the most powerful members in the server. third, "dream needed him to have no upper hand", then explain to me on what he did for tommy to not have the upper hand? exactly, the only thing you mentioned is that he destroyed what tommy collected, only that. you didnt mention the physical, mental and emotional abuse he did to him, the abuse that drove him into almost losing his life through self-dead, taunting him on something he really wanted to be in, lying to a boy who already lost all and his only hope is to see his friends by inviting them to a party he put effort in, and once again, the same boy that he drove to a second act of self-dead before tommy pulled himself together by landing on water. this is the turning point on why some fans considered dream as the ultimate villain of the dream smp lore, because these actions from exile ALONE is already disgusting and irredeemable.
i made a long list so heres the continuation of it kekw :P
seventh point, tommy at techno's house. to keep it short, he didnt care that tommy is allied with techno, because dream already held a favor over techno's head. he doesnt need to barge in and take tommy from techno when he can call techno himself and made the favor into him giving tommy without any struggle. this is another weak point due to dream saying that he can cash in the favor
another time when techno offered tommy to him. its that easy for dream to capture tommy thus he didnt give a single damn about it.
eighth point, the community house. once again, to keep it short, he pinned it to tommy because of circumstances. dream told the cabinet that tommy went missing (to which what he did is blatant kidnapping because he didnt inform tubbo on where they were going for exile) then after that, tommy caused minor chaos because of his deal with techno. may i remind you that once again, tommy didnt want to hurt l'manburg, he only did it because he was holding his end of the deal. it takes a blind person to see that everyone united in the community house because of tommy, be it negative or positive, and that controlling tommy would lead to controlling the server, and to control tommy is to take his discs. he already shown his true colors when he insulted tubbo despite the stress the young president was in, and when he disowned himself as sapnap and george's friend. he didnt needed the discs for peace, he needed the discs because it was FUN when seeing tommy stumble time and time again. he was having FUN in tormenting the former youngest member of the server. this was seen in the same event you mentioned with doomsday, i suggest watching either tubbo's or tommy's perspectives of the event. at this point, there's no sought out goal of peace in dream's mind anymore.
ninth point, the final disc saga. again, that "tommy is the cause of every conflict" mentality, he only caused two so far and its the railway skirmish but even then, he did warned dream to move out of the way, and the accidental burning of george's house. you said it yourself, he's involved in every conflict but that doesnt mean he started it. not only did dream stole every important things from other people without their knowledge, he was planning to CAGE a PERSON, he was identifiying a person as a mere ATTACHMENT. and to add, he admitted to about the exile and the community house not because he felt guilty but he was on death's door with no way out and only one ally present in a group of people intending to save tommy and tubbo (or imprisoned dream and save tubbo for jack and niki's case). what dream meant when he can have the control again and turn the server back into what it used to be is that he can have control OVER the server, break his own rules and not face any consequences because he has the attachments and the main source of these attachments with him.
tenth point, dream in prison. i actually thought that dream let himself be imprisoned because he saw how united everyone was at the time, but with the current lore we have, safe to say its more of a confirmation than anything. let's not forget he killed two innocent member in the server before he went to jail, and seeing how everyone is there due to one common factor, he knew he must control tommy to take control of the server again. he didnt do it for peace and only complied to tommy's demands because its either prison or death with no way for sure if he'll ever come back with the knowledge he has. about the members having their own group or nation, eggpire was already a thing before his imprisonment and its a thing during new l'manburg so really, he didnt predict that one. the nations, particularly snowchester, are only created due to either fear or as a safety precaution with the new groups such as the syndicate being a countermeasure for these nations. las nevadas is the only nation created from greed but even then, it also served as a line of defense for quackity.
eleventh point, quackity. i can give you that because your point does follow and sound like quackity and his attitude in the story, but saying he was just like him is a bit incorrect. quackity is like dream when it comes to the intensity of actions but unlike dream, he has someone to fight for. charlie and tommy are examples of this instance, with the latter becoming one of the reasons why quackity tortured dream in prison. he wasnt painted as the villain when he show actions on why hes the villain, he himself somewhat accepted the role with open arms due to how much fun it gave him unlike the era of peace. at first, yes he did have similar motives as everyone but that motive changed during the manberg era, maybe even before that.
twelfth point, the prison break. this is the strongest point for even i have difficulty to counter it but there are still some that needs to be pointed out. the prison break also led to the death of one of techno's closest friends, ranboo, due to dream hurriedly left the scene, in the exact same event, tommy went to phil and let out everything on why he hates dream which led to phil protecting him despite being best friends with the person who helped in escaping the said prisoner. additionally, the first action he taken after meeting up with punz for armor and weapons, was to chase tommy down like its a game and threatened to kill him then revive him over and over again. add in that punz basically threw the wrench on the entire "dream willingly let himself be arrested for the greater good because he finally united the people" and crashed and burned the entire point.
in short, theres two sides of the coin, and an explanation on what happened throughout the course of the history of the dream smp. its best to confirm that what you see in one perspective also aligned to the other party's perspective so as to avoid constant holes in an essay such as this. compare and contrast is a good method when it comes to analysis, and again i dont want to come off as mean when making this comment, is more to educate on what actually led to dream be considered as the villain of the server. :DDD
Right. Because emotionally manipulating, abusing and enjoying the triggering of someone's PTSD isn't a bad thing, right? /s
The thing is that dream also over did the controlling. He torchere other members and made them insane. That is why we see dream as the villain
you still dont get .--.
@@clashmc1555 But he did.
Examples:
Tommy's exile
Bribing Eret
Blowing up l'manberg for no reason
Supplying wilbur with TNT during pogtopia
Driving ranboo to insanity
I believe he is the villain (He and wilbur)
You dont have to though!
I can see ur point however I can't entirely agree that Dream was not the villain. At the end of the day, he still did those shit things; doing something bad for a greater good doesn't wipe out the effect of the bad.
!!!
I agree. He repeatedly killed 2 innocent people to test out resurrection. I would even argue he’s like a morally bad person similar to Dumbledore in a way, and definitely worse then Dumbledore. I always hate the “greater good” argument as it sacrifices people just to reach some “goal for a better life” or a “big happy family.”
For example, what would you think if you are just some guys living out retirement and suddenly 2 armed men chased you and your friend down? You don’t even know WHY they are after you two. Now you are trapped in some random lab and suddenly your dead in the most horrendous way possible. Next think you know you are alive AGAIN. Then the kidnappers proceeded to kill you AGAIN. This happens OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN as they tested out MULTIPLE ways to kill and revive you. What Dream is doing is inhumane and downright evil not to mention this took place BEFORE he was thrown into prison. Good intentions does NOT erase the inhumane actions he has done and apparently planning to do in the future. Human experimentation already crosses so many moral and ethical lines. On top of that, this likely happen around the Exile Arc where Dream abused a kid nearly pushed them to off themselves. I could go on, but it’ll be a long list.
Also turbo help tommy even thought he griefed the owners friends home so I understand dreams points but the only thing I don’t agree with is blowing up his stuff a permanent exile and Tommy’s last canon death outside of that I don’t really see much wrong with dream
I hate autocorrect (tubbo*)
I describe Dream's character as a sympathetic villain. Specifically a "well-intentioned extremist" I suppose, committing various immoral acts for the sake of peace. He was kinda like the Thanos of the server I guess. But recently after he escaped his prison cell, he has gone down a completely villainous path, and started getting his revenge on the server, and once again started to commit more evil doings.
-every dream stan
I love how everything is scripted but it’s so damn good and nicely acted out
Thing is, only the major lore is scripted. The rest was improvised.
Mate, that’s what movies are
Wow you're very right , I also saw the ultimate truth of peace in dream but the whole smp was framing him as villian
“Dream ISNT the villain of dsmp!” Also dream: emotionally Manipulated multiple children, INCLUDING ADULTS. Physically and abused some of them. If he wanted “peace” then he would have stayed. In. The. Prison. BUT HE DIDNT. And yes not everyone on the server is “pure” and “only well-meaning”, but most, if not all, don’t torture children except dream. (I am aware abt Wilbur so he is also on the list of emotions abuse, but not as high as dream). I rest my case.
I don’t agree with you.
did u even watch the video? she literally explained why he did it lol
True
@@Plasma_07 your Wrong this is dream perspective not tommy or anyone else in the dsmp
@@kwamekwatengkuranchie644 "your wrong" I didn't even state an opinion lol, the comment states that dream manipulated and abused people, and that if he wanted peace he should've stayed in the prison. I simply said that the video explains why he did those things, are you saying she didn't explain those things?
I can see an argument for Dream up until exile. In my opinion you really underplayed what Dream did, he was emotionally tormenting, isolating and (i know you disagree but come on, he kept being like 'I'm your friend Tommy!') a minor. That is not cool jo matter what Tommy did. I think that Dream went mad with his idea of peace and that destroyed any good he hoped to enact. I equally see no reason for why Dream should have killed Tommy. I'm no Tommy stan, I think his character is very clearly stupid and selfish, but no one deserves what he went through.
Agree
All Dream ever did was want the best for the smp as a whole. If only he had an epic final line like “I did all this for peace” or something like that before he was sent to prison.
I think dream is pretty much a villian now but he started with good intentions, then it kinda went to chaos.
honestly as soon as i got into the smp i sided with dream and havent been able to enjoy it since
its nice to see people finally come to the same conclusion
Agreed, it's nice to see people not think of dream as just a villain
Lmao i love dream(the character) because of how he tormented tommy
I have problems-
@@zaytaz9331 what the fuck is wrong with you? You like him because he ABUSED AND TORTURED c!Tommy???
Hasn’t Dream literally said that c!dream is a villain..? And you know, not a great guy.
Let’s not forget before tommy was exiled dream was happy to have Tommy have his position removed but then Tommy threatened dream
But with the current lore-
“I‘ll kill you and I’ll revive you again and I’ll kill you and I’ll revive you again and I’ll revive you again” I feel kinda bad for all the characters including dream and tommy but what he did to ranboo was a bit-
Finaly someone who understands Dream. Also i knew this since the start but thanks for explaining to the fandom!
Girl, im sorry to break it to you but this theory is the stupidest one I ever seen
She omitted so many things to make dream a good guy
Me: schlatt will probably be a great president
Schlatt: exiles tommy and will
Me: you gotta be kidding me
I like this analysis of dreams character and how clear the points are. Keep up the great work!
Dream may have wanted peace but you kind of sugar coated some of his actions. And you can’t forget he killed Tommy to prove a point. And he left Ranboo to die. Soooooooo
Yeah like every single thing he does is just for his own individual benefit. If he did want peace then he's going through a twisted and demented path. By peace does he mean having everyone under his finger tips so they would agree to him all of the time?
Hearing technoblade again just makes me cry
One thing I have noticed which could go against this is that dream still seems obsessed with getting peoples items, because he's spoken about it before, including talking about technos polar bear and so on.
And also him abusing Tommy in exile which, that entire arc was completely glossed over in this video
I think there's some details/info missing here and there that got brushed over, but overall a good video!
You definitely got his motivations spot on, though with the reveal of the Staged Finale and how the prison and Disc Finale was all planned from the beginning, including Punz betraying him, I think there's definitely some things that arent completely accurate.
BUT, considering how inaccurate most videos on c!Dream are, I think this was a really good covering of c!Dream's actual goals and motivations/general outlook. Looking forward to more of your videos!
Yeah he's not the villian he's the monster 😍😍 (after the start he just was the villian )
Quackity and Sam are the definitions of hypocrites in the server Quackity is doing the exact same thing Dream did (manipulating people, blowing up builds and torturing someone) and Sam is keeping Dream locked up yet letting Quackity go free and everyone says Dream is the cause of every conflict but seriously Quackity is the one who got Jschlatt elected, SapNap started the Pet Wars (I think), Eret betrayed L’Manberg (maybe Dream manipulated him but it was still Eret’s choice), Wilbur is the one who blew up L’Manberg (don’t even say that was Dream’s fault as with Eret it was Wilbur’s choice), Techno was gonna destroy L’Manberg the second time anyway and Dream was in no way affiliated with the Eggpire, so saying he’s responsible for everything is more than exaggerating.
Dream: Bruh, everyone hates me, why is Dreamxd not helping me
Dreamxd: *watching cocomelon*
Honestly, 'Hero' and 'Villain' is just a title you give someone in your own perspective because in everyone's perspective, they see themselves as the 'hero' and their enemy, the 'villain'
Amazing Video! Keep up the Great Work!
Thank you!
I would like to remind that Wilbur Soot has described C!Dream as villainous, and the writers appear to want to portray him as such. Many things were glossed over in this, and several things were mentioned to be for a different reason than mentioned here. I'm not here to attack, but simply point out a very clear bias that undermines much of C!Dream's actual character.
*Sam:* _So does that mean that you're a bad guy too?_
*Dream:* _Yes! Yes, you're finally getting it. In our world, you have to do bad things. You have to be a bad guy, otherwise, you end up dead!_
This video talks about what i tell my friends that the smp can be looked on as both sides being the “right” side so I agree that he could be a so called hero through specific parts of the story
FINALLY SOMEONE SAID EVERYTHING I WANTED TO SAYYYY! GLAD THAT WE R ON THE SAME PAGE. IM NOW GONNA SEND THIS TO EVERYONE. also plzzzzzzzz do Wilbur or Ranboo
Ranboo and Wilbur would be such fun characters! I’m really glad you enjoyed it
Tommy and tubbo fought and after that tommy told tubbo to give over the disc
you were right you were right YOU WERE RIGHT! 😝😵💫🥳
I always new dream was good
Bruh, no he wasn’t.
i disagree
I respect your opinion, but unfortunately, I cannot agree with it. It sounds to much like a c!dream apologist video to me. I see where you’re trying to come from, but I can’t see how you can vilify his actions anymore because he’s devolved into a narcissistic psychopath who has manipulated multiple people on the server. We all think of Tommy when we hear “Oh, Dream’s manipulating someone,” but that isn’t the case.
For starters, he manipulated Tubbo into exiling his best friend and nearly handing over the disc. He made himself appear as an ally to L’Manberg when is was really just a way to create more conflict.
Another instance is Ranboo. Now, I’m not too sure as to what is happening in the lore, but making someone do something for you in an semi-conscious state and driving them to the point where they lock themselves in room/prison because they literally can’t trust themselves due to supposed voices in their head doesn’t seem humane to me.
Lastly, we have Tommy. While I may be a huge c!Tommy fan and literally want the world for him, I can’t deny the fact that he has done wrong. He has been selfish, he has been arrogant. However, he always seems to pay more than double the price to amount for his actions. I mean, burn a house and get exiled out your own nation and be manipulated? Doesn’t seem like a fair trade-off to me. Oh, while we’re on this topic, I don’t quite think you understand how bad exile was. Tommy was manipulated to the point where he thought Dream, his mortal enemy, was his owner. That’s essentially Stockholm Syndrome at its most basic form. He also nearly committed suicide multiple times because of his manipulation and was beaten to death just to prove a point. This doesn’t even include all of the other people he had hurt.
Overall, the “Dream is not a villain” isn’t feasible to me. I understand what you mean by different perspectives determine who’s good and who’s evil, but everyone is a villain in their own way. There is no true “hero” in the Dream Smp. However, there are those who are much worse than others, and Dream falls under that category.
@Crystal Draffin Nah she just spitting facts
@Crystal Draffin I get it's a theory, that's why it's so unfortunate that so many people are using this video as if it was a fact.
People are allowed to complain if others are using "evidence" (misinformation) from this video to justify their claims. But in most often times those others are very stubborn so arguments are bound to get heated.
@Crystal Draffin Going english essay on me? So be it.
You cannot defend those who chose to continue to believe something when it's proven incorrect. It only shows peoples ignorance to be open-minded. That's only natural here though since most people are kids and teenagers which we're naturally stubborn with our opinions so it's only fair.
Arguing and debating is an invevitable thing especially with topics like these, people who fan over movies and books debate in this same way with their own characters, so this isn't any different. (Plus debating about this stuff is probably what's kept this fandom active for so long even with limited lore these days)
And quite frankly, there is plenty of evidence that clearly overlaps C!Dreams (if he even has) "neutral" motives, even if he were to suddenly say he's a good guy his actions say otherwise. He's claimed it himself that his character is a bad guy over and over, and apologists KNOW THIS. And they chose to ignore it. (There's even a video of an apologist proving this point). At this point arguing with them is like talking to a wall. Au's are fine, because it actually states that it's not canon.
In the end, people are allowed to say "Hey, this evidence you're using is actually incorrect!" and critisize others, it's not a bad thing. And in no way should misinformation be treated like a belief, take it this way. Someone points out a orange and calls it green, you tell them it's orange and in response they'll say "Oh nah it's true that's just my belief". Or another example. Someone points to the moon, and calls it the sun. You respond with "Hey there's actually evidence that it's the moon", and they respond with "Seriously? It is the sun, that's my opinion".
Do you see where the frustration comes from? Knowing you can prove them wrong or at least show a different point of view but there's this invisble wall between you both that's hinted by the words "opinion" and "belief". It's a too familar excuse, sometimes you can convince them after a long debate and showing evidence. Other times they'll cross their arms and say "Well I don't believe that video/picture! Leave me alone!" and the wall only grows thicker.
It's a human thing, and it takes real maturity for people to be open and have the willingness to change. It happens to all of us eventually.
But yeah I understand you're not an apologist, but I hope you can at least take a note of all this.
@Crystal Draffin Oh yeah I know your trying to say now! I completely agree that personally hating on the creator is wrong. I'd originally figured you were trying to protect the rude C!Dream apologists lmao. But yeah that's fair.
In a way I understand some peoples anger towards the creator, because this video has made quite the big impact in the community and suddenly there's just people spamming "IT WAS ALL C!TOMMY'S FAULT!! C!DREAM IS INNOCENT!!" all over tiktok, youtube and twitter and people would get pissed off about it. But at the same time, I don't like it at all when there are people who are saying just blatent slurs and death threats to others just because of their opinion. And I do not defend any of that, that's for sure.
I think the thing is, is that especially for the DSMP fandom, people take the characters seriously, like as you can see through the comment section, very seriously. And even when people know they're just characters there are those out there who are willing to sacrifice themselves for some characters xD
But that's just how it is here I suppose, it's been like this for like a year now. But yeah I do get what you mean! Half the time I guess it'd just gotten confused by what you meant, that's my bad!
@Crystal Draffin All good! You don't need to apologize it was me who interpreted it wrong lmao.
But yeah I'm not even a C!Dream apologist but for like a couple weeks after this video came out all I could see was propaganda about how he was doing it all for peace on like every social media and it was craZY.
But yeah happy this ended on a peaceful note! I hope you have a nice day/night! :D
POV: you're a serious dream stan
Wow that was amazing explanation why the whole war gonna by and the reason for Dream to be the villain.
Um ... Can you do the DreamXD cuz I wonder what their reason.
You guys do realize that dream being a villain is in the lore,right
U see 1 side of the story
A misunderstood villain, a villain who wanted to peace
I've actually heard this storyline before. It's about one person willing to take on the hate of all people with the ultimate goal of forcing the people to set aside their differences and unite against the one person.....now what was it again...? OH YEAH, Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion.
I wonder if that makes Phill and Techno Dream's Suzakus (also it did legitimately take a whille for me to remember the right anime)
Nice job skipping over the fact that Dream has stated himself that he wanted chaos and destruction.
Good job skipping Tommys trauma which was caused by Dream.
Good job skipping over how Dream killed Mexican Dream.
Good job skipping over him experimenting on human beings.
Lmao glossing over the fact that when dream gets backed into a corner he says how he was tommy friend when he didn’t want that before and then proceeded to use the death of Wilbur
@@DarkVoidBeel money does matter though whatever u gotta do to make it make it (only if killing someone is involved the don't but otherwise yes
Therefore the only non-bad guy is Techno and the syndicate
To those who realize that this video is very biased, I've made a video debunking this one! (Yes this is self-advertising, do I regret it? No)
If any of you are interested to watch it, here's the link: th-cam.com/video/i0QVuEbhRI8/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=Entropy
Godbless and hope you all have a nice day.
Love it !
Finally a complete video about Dream's character motives and not just "he wants control he is the bad guy"
Every time people don't ask why does he does all that in the first place.
I'm so happy that he's out now. I really like his character ^^
I will never say dream is a villen but you cannot blame it on Tommy he is the reason the dream SMP is interested I am proud of him
I think that Dream is the villain, whether he wanted peace or not, he forced a 17 year old into exile and psychologically tortured him. Apparently it was for 5 years in canon but who knows the canon timeline at this point. Then Dream he had a massive freakout, tried to kill another 17 year old and ended up getting himself locked up. After making Tommy go through a horrific experience in what was meant to be his last time seeing Dream. Later, after he broke out, Tommy saw a vision literally Dream saying “Then I’ll revive you, and I’ll kill you again” repeatedly. We don’t know if that was just a hallucination or it was just Dream, but either way, it was torture. Whilst in exile, he made Tommy believe he was his friend despite psychologically and physically abusing him, so It’s not the craziest thing in the world when people call him a manipulator. Dream may have had good intentions to begin with, but in the end he still craved power and control over everyone else. You can see it in his character throughout the ‘seasons’. Just because he wanted peace doesn’t mean he isn’t any less of a villain than Wilbur, Techno or Quackity.
tommyinit is the person who started the war
For the record, I don’t like canon Tommy either, but I’m not gonna sit here and say that Dream is the good guy because Tommy’s a whiny little bitch (in canon)
I agree except I think he started going to more extreme measures and started to lose it around exile(to be fair he was gonna put skeppy in a cage) I think he started good but was driven mad
but now Im forced too rethink that in light of dreams lore he put out AAAHHHHHHHH
plus never really believed in good or bad only people with different reasons for doing different things that can be good to one side but bad for the other
You missed the fact that dream planned to be put in the prison. Because of this dialogue with Punz
dream might not be the biggest bad guy, but concidering the way he reacted, and his thought process towards exiling and pushing tommy to the point of suicide was over the top. and this whole idea of controlling everyone was stupid. do you know what happened to the people who tried to control their childrens lives, or the world? they failed. and most of the time the outcome is bad when you succeed, leading to the children becoming adicted to the things they were forced away from. if they had a balance of free will and rightful disapline it would of been fine and dream wouldnt be a villian. but you cant have peace. ever. you can have close to peace where nothing gets over the top, but never peace. he tried to kill tubbo, a living human being, in order to stop this madness. he was blinded from what reality was. if you become a control freak you might as well be the villian after all. people love free will and you cant just fucking take that away like you did nothing. i hate to break it to you, but dream still is a villian in a way.
edit: dont kill human beings to test a fucking book, thanks.
also Quackity, and Wilbur and the others are also villians. there is no doubt about it, whether they have reasons or not. but some people like villians and some people dont see it.
sure dream isn't the only bad guy, but when you kill a teen to revive them, just for fun, you're a bad guy.
and threaten to do it again and again, even worse. dream stated he wanted power and nothing else, just so he can control the server again.