Part-4 Building a Wimshurst Machine - 6-inch SPARK!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
- Plans on the way plus a hardware kit will be available!
docs.google.co...
This would be a great science fair project. This influence machine was designed in the 1880's by James Wimshurst. It's an Electrostatic Generator that creates a healthy 7-inch spark. Potentially painful but USUALLY safe. Lightning!
Similar to a Tesla coils, induction coil but more like and Van de graaff generator.
High Voltage!
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Once again, Mark, your machines RULE!
Thanks!
your generator is a work of art
They are! I love making them.
Now I know why you needed a ball turning attachment! What a great project! I love it! I suppose you didn't get enough Joules (amps times volts times seconds) to cause a cardiac arrest but it is pretty scary! Cardiac defibrillators produce about 300 Joules. It requires about 50 volts to overcome the electrical resistance of skin. The voltage to overcome the resistance of air is 5000-10,000 volts/cm so at 7 inches =18cm gives at least 89,000 volts there. Very entertaining Winky - Take Care!
Yeah... I made a motorized machine a while back. It made a 10 inch spark an had a lot higher amperage. I got shocked my it and I'll have to say... it really scared me. Hurt a lot! Check this out: th-cam.com/video/TjlBi2mhzmY/w-d-xo.html
Great series. Thanks for sharing 👍 🇬🇧
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks
I have enjoyed watching this series Winky. A very interesting machine and the way it works. Sorry you had a shocking experience. LOL
I had to laugh at myself. Thanks!
That was quite a jolt you took Mark. The machine is looking good.
Haha... not the first time. I had a motorized machine that was absolutely dangerous!
@@WinkysWorkshop A motorized one would be a little scary for me.
Awesome job Winky! I think the steel parts of the neutralizer bars would look much better after either 1 Hr Red Rust Bluing, or Manganese Parker Phosphating.
I agree... they need something. I think I'll make them a bit different anyway but the surface treatment sounds interesting. I need to learn more about this.
Magnificent. Many thanks
You are welcome
hooo hooo hooo!! cant believe you shocked yourself!! Actual LOL. Great stuff, Fantastic part series.
Glad you enjoyed it. That was a mild shock actually
49:07 good tv there sir ⚡️ 😂
True entertainment! Ha. That's why the completed project has long handles!
Gday Winky, I’m amazed at the length of the spark, not long before you got a boot I was thinking that’s gotta hurt if you luck out, then bang, holy shit that’s gotta hurt, I wasn’t far wrong, great build mate, Cheers
HA! Yep, the shock will certainly get your attention! I made a motorized Bonetti machine also. It made a very loud 10-inch spark. I got shocked in the exact same way (slow learner?). It hurts to even think about it. More voltage makes the spark longer but the capacitors increase the amperage. This machine had too much capacitance! I modified the machine with smaller capacitors for safety.
LOVE the videos!!!!
Thanks!
Thanks for sharing.
Your welcome, Thanks for watching!
⚡For my 11th Christmas Santa gave me a Wimshurst generator. Ever since then I've been obsessed with electrostatics. Years of hands on research and development of outer fringe science. IE: Ball Lightning, Ball Lightning Generator, Ball Light Gun. Simply bend a static spark to the point that one end of the spark will be attracted to the other end, and as long as we give rotation to the spark during this process, the spark will chase its tail in circles, like that of a cat or dog, but at the speed of light. Now you have a bonafide ball of light. The diameter of the static ball of light is determined by size of parallel rods, plus amperage. Thus a battery of six large static capacitors is required. Nearly parallel steel metal or copper rods must be a bit closer at the top then at the bottom. This will cause the spark to travel up the rods and fly off the end. However we need to make one rod tiny bit longer than the other rod to induce spin. You'll need to make the height/length of one of the two rods adjustable so you can easily tweak it to get the desired results.
Note: The tips of the two rods need to be curled back 180 degrees. Warning: Be sure to aim it towards a grounded steel plate as not to have a loose ball of light causing damage to electronics. Note: Smaller balls of light about three times the size of pinhead are harmless, and give off no noticeable heat. No need to be alarmed should you see a bunch of them on your forearm. Just have fun flicking one off at a time using your middle finger. If you flick them back to the static generator, they will lock into the static field and orbit around it a few times before the tiny ball of light vanish. At one point I had a dozen or more tiny balls of light resting at the highest point of the hair on my left forearm. You'll need to build a Van De Graaff style static generator, that uses a 6" wide belt. I could go on, but I need to stop here before my comment turns into a book. lol Good luck, be (((EXTREMELY CAREFUL))) as ball lightning is very unpredictable, and will cause power blackouts if you make balls greater than four to six feet in diameter. Of course, you've built a photon cannon at that size. Have fun. Great vid. I subscribed of course.
Thanks for the info! You might want to check out my other channel. www.youtube.com/@wimshurstmachines-teslaspa9557/videos
PVC is a thermoplastic. Heat up the PVC with a heat gun then slide it over the oversized brass instead of gluing next time. The pipe will contract as it cools and provide an extreme fit. The same technique was used with steel ring bands to secure wagon wheels and barrels.
Cool, I'll try that! Thanks
That was a shocking experience.
Yes, it can be!
Winky's, I love this machine. You might like to try replacing one of the small balls with a cone to see if it makes a longer spark from the tip of the cone. The electrons are attracted to the opposite charge on the other sphere. If the electrons are accumulating on a large sphere they have a large area to spread out. On a smaller sphere they have less room and the charge is more concentrated. On the tip of a cone they are really confined and create a higher voltage. It may also focus the voltage gradient in the air into a narrow strip with a higher voltage gradient. Something to try out if you haven't done it already.
I started watching your ball turning video but had an errand to run. Nice looking lathe.. The ball sizes and shape are optimized for a long spark. You are right about points although in this case you don't want a point. The negative terminal needs to be large but after about 2 1/2 inch you don't gain much going larger, at least on this size machine. The positive terminal needs to be tuned to the machine. Smaller balls act more like a point and larger balls resist arcing to the opposite electrode. To a point this is what you need. It allows the capacitors to reach a full charge before the spark will jump. If you go smaller (or pointed) the spark gets shorter. To tune the machine you start small and keep getting larger until the spark starts getting short again. Also... if you go very much too large it makes the machine start looking for an alternate path to discharge. It's found me a few times. Ouch Actually, if you put a point on the ball it will almost disable the machine. It acts like an emitter and discharge into the air quicker than the machine will charge.
@@WinkysWorkshop Thanks for your detailed experience with static electricity. It does make sense the way you have explained it. I wouldn't have thought of the pointed electrode resulting in the spark discharging before the capacitors had fully charged. But it makes sense.
I also watched your video on T-nuts and the next day I partly stripped the thread in the plain strip of 1/4" steel I had been using. So I went ahead and turned one on the lathe from stainless steel 80mm bar. I used a hacksaw followed by 4-jaw chuck to turn one flat side and then found it fitted more neatly in the 3 jaw to do the second straight side because it could seat against the face of the chuck. Would you mind if I added that to my collection of TH-cam lathe videos. I would mention you and your friend Ray in Canada.
@@Evan-e-cent - Go for it (the video on the lathe T nut). I don't mind at all. And thanks in advance for the mention.
I built the old one you posted, I'm wondering are the bb's copper or copper plated? And does that matter.
Hello Lloyd. They are copper plated but it doesn't mater at all. Aluminum shot would be fine too. You can also line the inside with foil as long as the center rod is touching the foil. BBs are just easy, look cool and add a little weight to the machine.
Great machine. Excellent workmanship. One observation on your "Shocking" experience - I think you got sapped from your knuckles to the top of capacitors and not through the electrode insulators.
From camera perspective, the distance to your hands was much shorted to the caps then electrode rods.
If you put some acrylic shields there blocking the capacitor and the top hardware from where the hands "fly" it may not happen again.
Thanks! Like they say, if you play with fire you will get burned. I've been shocked many times. The longer handles helped a lot.
Very interesting, great job.Sorry about the shocking experience you had Winky,but i must say ,i enjoyed the project.thank you
Glad you enjoyed it... That was a minor shock compared to some I've had but thanks. These machines are useless but a lot of fun.
serious sparks
Yeah... panful too :o)
I Drink Nescafe Instant Coffee, i have all my life and its the BEST Coffee in the World, Tell her to try a little 10% Creamer with the coffee, YUMMY, Great Machine BTW :)
Thanks for the tip! Ha
I have a question, what will happen if you put four or more disks?
Mostly it will increase amperage. You'd likely get a slightly longer spark simply because the additional amperage would compensate for losses.
Ideally always make your insulated handles significantly longer than the radius of your disc (usually double that length, and hold from the bottom end)!
Excellent guideline.
@@WinkysWorkshop There is a reason mine are a foot long!
Would turning the crank handle in the other direction change which electrode did the sparking? Also I had always thought a laden jar was filled with a liquid and had a ball hanging on a chain down to just above the level of the fluid.
Laden jars can be made many ways. Liquid inside the jars is a very old idea. Some have even used mercury but the most common is some kind of applied metal of a sleeve. Any conductor really. I used BBs just because it is easy. The use of a metal chain is just a method for making a connection.
Most often reversing the machine does noting. If you reviese the machine with the electrodes touching it will quite often discharge the machine. If the humidity is over about 50% you may have to charge the machine with something like a PC pipe rubbed with a rag. After rubbing the rag you hold it next to a disk and crank the machine, Once charged the machine usually stays charged for a long time.
Im seriously interested in making one of these but I am a little concerned about the safety involved. I would like it as a demo from students but I just know they or I are going to grab something at the wrong time, sorry you had to demonstrate it but it was a good wake up call for me, and you I know :)
They will get you! Ha... but its not deadly. Not this machine anyway. Maybe a smaller machine would be a better choice with kids.
@@WinkysWorkshop Agree it seems to go very fast. My father made me a tractor with a B&S motor, spend hours pulling the neighborhood kids around the streets on a trailer.
@@campbellmorrison8540 Sound like fun... also sounds like something I would do.
NICE machine!
Thanks
Superb machine, just a question. Can we replace the plastic tubes with solid wood with simpler assemblies?
THANKS
I assume you are talking about the PVC pipe electrode supports? If so, the answer is no. Wood is a conductor at high voltage. The pipe works well but I have also used solid acrylic or Delrin type plastics and glass insulators. Hopefully this answered your question.
Good morning !
ok, I suspected a little of your answer but I wish to have your expertise.
For the axis of the two discs is it possible however to use wood? because it is very complicated and expensive to procure Delrin in Europe.
For capacitors it is better to use a glass or plastic container?
Is it possible to scale down your machine plans to build a slightly smaller machine? and this reduction is possible for all parts of your machine including capacitors?
A big thank you from France, and sorry for my rough English! @@WinkysWorkshop
@@engrenage15 Hello again! Yes wood pulleys are fine. I have made several with wood. The only issue is washing the discs when they get dirty. The plastic or glass discs insulates. Plastic is a better choice but you can use pyrex glass. However, if you use glass you need to spray is with a varnish (polyurethane works well). The capacitors ideally need to be plastic. Again, pyrex works (borosilicate) but I have not had much success. Also the capacitor needs to have a molded bottom. I have used acrylic tubes but have never found a glue that seals well enough to stop sparks from breaching the glue line. You CAN however use PVC but the inner and out electrodes (foil) needs to be centered vertically. There has to be a spark over distance between the electrodes. How much is based on the size and power of the machine. There us a facebook group related (Electrostatic Machines) that is a GREAT resource! I'm in the group as well as many other very knowledgeable people.
OK Winky I have to admit I laughed but not because it hurt just because it was funny.
Yeah... It hurt but I was still laughing at how slow I learn - ha
Very interesting project, what with all of the HV precautions, smooth and rounded surfaces, no touching, etc. I bet there's a safety mechanism you could make. Perhaps connect a fly-ball governor mechanism to the electrode levers. When the wheels slow down, the electrodes draw together and self short or some such. Electrical discharge to (through) the human body becomes many times more dangerous when the current path is from one hand to the other. I know I don't need to tell you to be careful. I saw you jump =0)
Yeah... it hasn't killed me yet but I do need to be careful!
awesome
Thanks
I’m curious did you notice an Oder of ozone during your testing?
Yes, always but not as strong as you might think.
Hey winky! What would be a good way to contact you? I recencly obtained an original wimshurst machine from 1890 distributed by 'the chigaco laboratory supplies and scale co' that is missing some components that i need made. And judging from these videos i think youre the prefect person to ask make them! Thank you for these videos by the way they are incredible.
winkysworkshop@GMX.com
The email is also in the plans. See link in the info area below the video
What is the source for the brass bits? I'm always on the lookout. Thanks!
I would like to know the source also Winky...
Mostly "Grand Brass Lamps". Not cheap but better than most and a huge selection of parts. The brass balls came from China although still high priced.
Also, in a week I'll have the parts list and plans posted.
@@WinkysWorkshop I buy stuff from them all of the time!
@@patrickearney8808 - Cool... what do you make with the brass?
I was thinking, why not build an AC machine? Looking at it, seems like it is generating AC electricity and storing it in the capacitors. I think if a scope was hooked up, you would find the some kind of wave form in the spark.... But I may be totally wrong also... Just thinking .... Cool machine anyway!
Actually it's DC. It randomly charges. Once the disks are charged the polarity usually stays the same but when it sits for a while the polarity may swap. Positive is always on the small ball side. If you angle the electrodes the other way the spark will only jump maybe an 1 to 2 inches. It might be a pulsed DC but it is DC.
@@WinkysWorkshop I wasn't trying to argue the fact of dc, just observing what I thought might be happening with the circuitry. I enjoyed the build and didn't think I would want to build one but the more I watch and think about it, I am curious as to what is really going on at every level of this machine....
@@dannywilsher4165 >>I am curious as to what is really going on at every level of this machine.... Me Too! If you figure it out let me know.
@@WinkysWorkshop I will let you know if I can get the time to make one and figure it out... I'm getting closer to finishing my house so I can get back into my shop and do some fun stuff.....
@@dannywilsher4165 I think I have built 11 of these machine and only understand some of the functions
Great outcome. Question please. If you cranked the handle in the opposite direction would the polarity change. I see that you always wound the handle clockwise. Regards from Australia.
The machine will work in reverse if the neutralizer bars positions are changed. With the front disk going clockwise (same as crank) the neutralize bar needs to be set between 10:00 and 11:00. If you view the machine from the other side it needs to be the same. If you turn the machine backwards without moving the neutralizer bars it will not generate a charge but it will sometimes neutralize the existing charge on the disk. If this happens you will sometimes change polarity when you rotate the machine clockwise again.
I'm excited to hear about the kit and plans--I will be buying them. Question--the capacitor connectors--instead of threading them is there an issue with just silver soldering them instead? Or even soft solder, for that matter.
Solder is great. No need for silver solder. In some respects solder is better, no chance of exposed threads which can zap the power right out of a machine. You can solder anywhere really. It's not as strong but in some areas strength is not an issue. It's a good idea to chamfer the edges of the holes. It also increases the surface area for the solder and makes a stronger joint.
Quarter 27 thread? Are you sure about that? Quarter 20 and quarter 28 are the standard coarse and fine threads, and I recently encountered quarter 24 in an old bankers chair. But very cool project overall. I love the experimental aspect of it as well.
Ha... yep, 1/4"- 27. Isn't that the weirdest thing you've ever heard of? grandbrass.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203607534-Thread-Size-Chart-
@@WinkysWorkshop that’s either a really old standard, or the lamp industry doing what the electronics industry has been doing for decades with cords and batteries.
@@bradthayer6782 - About 7 years ago when I started building these machines I needed a variety of ball sizes. The machines have to be tuned so to speak. With the exact correct ball size you get the longest spark. Anyway, a lot of the sizes I needed only came in 1/4-27. This has changed now. You can get both. The thing is, I have about 25 brass balls that are all 1/4-27 and taps and dies to go with them. I haven't tried but I suspect 1/4-28 might work well enough with the balls. They only need to screw on maybe a 1/4" at most.
Would it be possible to buy a complete kit from you
I was having a hard time getting parts for kits but I recently found some new sources. I think I might have enough for one kit. Send me an email @ winkysworkshop@GMX.com
Hi
Great video
Thank you
Can I buy one from you?
Thanks, There is a link in the description below the video
Good afternoon. How much does it cost to buy such a machine from you?
I have sold several but the amount of time involved making them and packing them for shipping is substantial. Plus the material are also high.... and shipping outside the US is ridiculous and complicated. I just gave up.
Would it be worth soldering the threads ?
Honestly once the machine is charged the the thread could be removed. I voltage doesn't need a good connection. Thread contact to the disk is important when the machine looses a charge but holding the thread to the brass with shrink tubing is totally adequate. With that being said, the thread will not solder. It's stainless and I guess stainless steel won't solder. I tried it.
good video
Thanks
At about 1100v per mm that's about 200,000 volts 8-)
It's a bunch! Hard to know for sure. Ball size plays a big part in the spark length too.
@@WinkysWorkshop yes, field strength is the main determiner .1100v/mm would be for planar electrodes ,so represents an upper limit, 8-) but , hey, impressive spark at any voltage
@@wktodd - Yeah still some high voltage. Thanks
Genio
They are fun, thanks
Each one of those sparks are like 200 watt-seconds assuming you made 1 uF jars and your machine throws one of those sparks every 2 seconds.....
That averages out to 100 watts per second of energy production. Very efficient machine considering you are almost efortlessly turning it with one hand.
If you linked the drive shafts together, how many do you think you could spin like that with one hand?
What if you had a pedal system?
Your machine is so low friction that it spins and continues to thrown sparks like the loading makes no difference.
It seems like the major limitation is the space requirement of the machine. You would need to spin 30 of those to supply the energy needs of a typical american household.
SERIOUSLY: how hard is this thing to spin?
If I hooked 30 of them up to pedals would the firction be too much or could I pedal it?
I'm guessing about 8 or 10 pairs but you'd need to increase the drive shaft diameter and crank length a little.
@@WinkysWorkshop Fair enough. What is the the overall capacitance of those two capacitors hooked together like that? I really want to figure out how much energy is in those caps when you're throwing 7 inch sparks.
I didn't think that the caps would fully discharge untill I read about sectorless wimshurst machines and how they flip polarity in between sparks from the capacitors overshooting the discharge.
If that's the case, you must be draining those caps on each spark.
@@chaorrottai There is a facebook group called Electrostatic machines you need to join. I just barely understand how these machines work. Yes the sectorless (Bonetti) are a a little higher voltage and a lot more amperage. I once built a motorized 18" machine that produced a deadly 10" spark. Well almost deadly, I'm still alive... that thing HURT a LOT. Very loud too.
@@WinkysWorkshop Cool I'll check it out! It's been wild watching this and having gone through an engineering class where I was told that these machines are useless for anything other than experiments.
I was always told that the current was too low to care about so I should forget that machine and focus on electromagnetics because that's what industry uses.
I started researching electrostatics and reading old patents from the late 1800s early 1900s and saw that there's a surprising amount of power just sitting up there capacitively in the atmosphere. 120 V/M at sea level and reaching higher gradiations of potential as you gain altitude and the atmosphere becomes less dense and more conductive.
Then I saw a guy power an atmospheric motor to spin a PMDC motor as a generator and he was making 18 watts! After, he powered his motor from his Van Der Graff and he had enough tourque to drill through wood with a 5/8ths inch spade bit.
Then I read in a patent that if you use an electrostatic machine to assist with atmopsheric electricity, you could collect a lot more current than by just sringing up the wire by itself.
Reading up on those I saw a man on quora had a quad disk machine that outputs a steady 340 KV at 600 microamps, or 204 watts.
Then I find you throwing 7 inch sparks with, what looks to me like, 1 nanoFarad of capacitors, turning the wheel by hand like it's nothing.
It actually makes a lot of sense.... It's the movement of many electrons in unison that creates a magnetic field and it's the back emf that fights you to spin a generator. With electromagnetics it's like you're forcing the electrons to do something they don't want to do and they resist. With electrostatics it feel more like setting up the system to allow electricity to do what it kind of wants to do anyways.
That's probably why the volts are high and the amps are low. There's not much there, but it really wants to do what you're asking it to. You're basically moving vitrually nothing, super hard because it kind of wants to move that way any ways.
@@chaorrottai This guy explains how the machines work really well: th-cam.com/video/nA4aCd5qFWs/w-d-xo.html
Several on the FB group have make Bonetti Machines with 4 disc sets. You'll like the group.
Winky takes 500Kv for the channel!
Anything for the channel. Haha
👍👍👍👍
Thanks you sir!
And then... the inevitable... (49:05) ...do it again!
Ha... yep. It wasn't the first and I'm sure it will happen again.
❤❤❤❤❤❤👍👍👍👍👍👍
thanks
That was interesting about optimum ball size. For my sparks I used a much smaller ball and then gapped it with a tiny piece of silicone insulator or epoxy coated magnet to a larger size.
Thirty Three Centimeter Spark from a Simple Experiment
th-cam.com/video/KMQYp218a-Q/w-d-xo.html
Like the spark does in some of these stills
th-cam.com/video/Ff44OPRbWxM/w-d-xo.html
With a small ball the spark jumps before the capacitor fulling charges. The larger ball requires a great current to jump. If the ball size exceeds the output of the machine it will not jump. The small ball size is tuned to the machine.