The refugee crisis dishonours the memory of the holocaust | Owen Jones meets Shami Chakrabarti
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 เม.ย. 2016
- Shami Chakrabarti tells me that David Cameron's language and the UK government's treatment of refugees dishonours the refugee convention and the memory of the holocaust.
Shami Chakrabarti reveals that Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, amongst others, tried to woo her politically during her tenure as the director of Liberty, the role she recently left after more than a decade at the helm. We also discussed whether we'd be better off with British Bill of Rights to replace the Human Rights Act and her work in fighting for your civil liberties.
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Seriously Owen, STOP LOOKING AT THE BISCUITS! (or just give in and have one).
The people in Calais are migrants not refugees.
+OnlyThe TruthMatters You are a racist bigot.
"Freedom only for the members of the government, only for the members of the Party - though they are quite numerous - is no freedom at all. *Freedom is always the freedom of dissenters*. The essence of political freedom depends not on the fanatics of 'justice', but rather on all the invigorating, beneficial, and detergent effects of dissenters. If 'freedom' becomes 'privilege', the workings of political freedom are broken."-Rosa Luxembourg
Can't wait for all the rational and informed comments to come rolling in on this one.
+Newtus minder "No criminal justice system in the world; in history; or that you could design in the future would ever be 100% perfect." - That one's not bad, wouldn't you agree?
+David Noir Sadly, stating the obvious is often a necessary starting point. That should be obvious in itself given that the guy above you seems to be denying the reality of the Holocaust.
CharlesFockaert Wow, a whole documentary. I think they call that "Argumentum ad tl;dr" these days.
Chris McSweeney
Sure, but what do we call the propaganda they showed on the -History- Hitler Channel all those years that programmed us all to have the same views you do about Hitler?
CharlesFockaert Academically and empirically informed.
This all sounds nice, "we need to help people and do more", etc, etc. But we need to be realistic. Importing everyone in danger in Syria isn't a solution to Syria's problem. These people don't want to travel across an entire continent to come here (even if we could take everyone), they really want us to support them and help them fix the problems where they live.
Honestly, as someone on the left politically it drives me nuts when I hear how the UK - a country which the left is happy to point out doesn't have enough houses for people to live - isn't doing enough to take in migrants.
All you people want to do is virtue signal how good you are at the expense of the happiness and well-being of both the UK people and incoming migrant people. Then when migrants are unhappy and start to protest (which they have), then and then the UK citizens are unhappy and start to protest (which they have) you dismiss it all, call them all racists and ask for more of the same.
+Lee That is one of the best comments I have ever read about the migrant crisis and you put it way better than I ever could.
+Lee Can you say therefore that a situation where many thousands of migrants remain in the middle east and get raped or killed is preferable? Of course not. Even if the damage our society, it is unlikely whatever we experience as a consequence will be worse than what they would experience in the middle east. This is why I think we should let more in. Looking at it from a rational perspective, I simply cannot see an argument to say that more people will suffer if we let them in.
Lee But most people do not disagree that the ultimate solution to the problem is tackling it at source by ending the wars in those places. The trouble is that that is rather more easily said than done, especially if you want to do it in such a way to bring about a lasting peace rather than a continuation of the instability that has plagued these countries for the past decade or so. In the meantime, something needs to be done about the people who are fleeing from the war. So we should let these refugees in now, and when we have helped to establish a peace in there country, they can go back. That is what I would want if the UK were in a similar situation.
It is a myth to say we lack the resources to do so, we were able to set up the NHS, the welfare state, and build countless new homes when we were bankrupt after WW2, so surely we can afford to look after what would, in my preference, be a few hundred thousand refugees staggered over a number of years. It is also just a question of priority, and surely human life should be at the top of that?
JDrakeify No, your right. I think I didn't explain my position very well. I'm not opposed to migrants coming here where necessary. If there's truly no other options then, yeah, we should do what we can - maybe not at the expense of our own countries well-being, but at least as much as we can reasonably do.
My issue is how left really doesn't seem to care about solving the problems in Syria. They only want to talk about importing more and more people for ideological reasons.
We should be setting up temporary safe camps near Syria where people in danger can easily flee to. Somewhere where there is food and safety without having to travel across Europe to come somewhere like the UK for the same thing. If there are kids without homes and parents, then of course, they should be more than welcome to come to the UK for another shot at life. But that's not the situation were in. We're allowing people in who are not in any danger, who are only coming here for economic reasons, and who we haven't even attempted to help in their home country. And why? It seems mostly so people like Owen can pat themselves on the back at being multi-cultural and accepting.
I feel like the corporate controlled media has shifted the discussion of the refugee crisis to only having two answers, we either let them in or keep them out, and the left and right are too busy fighting to realise this. If only the government spent less on war, and more on our own country.
I agreed with everything that was said in this, absolutely everything. So so good.
I didn't know her or of her. I'm starstruck. I'm absolutely impressed with this woman. Word of the day, Internationalist.
She's great.
Just watched the conversations with Yanis Varoufakis and Shami Chakrabarty. Extremely impressed. Keep up the good work. John Ryan.
I love that cheeky "Rightly so" at 6:19. I'd also add that Chakrabarti displays the quality and persuasiveness of her philosophy. It's great to see her praising Corbyn's humanity too.
What a charming and eloquent person she is.
let's just let everyone in. Come on guys you can stay at Owens
+Stefan Gowlar hahahahahahahaha
+Stefan Gowlar We can solve this debate once and for all. Just let EVERYONE in and I mean everyone, see if it works.
+Graham6762 ALL FOREIGNERS IN OWENS HOUSE ME TOO
What an eloquent and powerful defense of human rights and rejection of xenophobia and racism. That was medicine for my soul.
Love these interviews, Owen!
You can have all the tea and biscuits you want after that interview Owen - I actually LOVE Shami Chakrabarti :D
Shami, the migrants at Calais are not refugees.
That is largely true.
Wow much respect for Shami
Thanks. Inspiring to hear Shami. I felt the same about "a bunch of migrants", shameful..
What a great interview .A really inspiring lady .She is so right about our rights gradually being taken away if the human rights act is tampered with . Really enjoy your channel Owen , your videos really do get me questioning my political views , which is always good.
great interview, now tell us what was in her CD collection
You know Owen, politics has been going in a bad direction recently, and I was losing hope. I really didn't think I'd find any and was becoming quite cynical. Hearing Shami say at the end of this interview that she has more hope now than she did when she joined Liberty, actually gave me hope. Also I think I love her.
Shami is great, we are lucky to have people like her protecting our human rights!
No, we are not.
"Every time I talk to you I feel more optimistic." Awwww! What a sweetie.
An amazing, insightful, deep interview. Thanks for filming this.
+Pad Smash Hmm, so insightful that she is quite incapable or unwilling to differentiate between genuine, deserving refugees and migrants. This is precisely why the public get frustrated with the way the situation is treated by the left and by liberals.
No, not really. The "mainstream" public generally don't give a shit about anyone but people born in the same country as them. This whole debate has been hijacked by right wingers - much like every other debate.
+sabbatini2 It's not her country and she'll still have a homeland she or her family can flee to if it becomes a 3rd world warzone and/or Islamic hellhole. She's very generous--with someone else's country and existence as a people.
Exactly. Being a guest in someones country is like being a guest in someones house. You put an effort into leaving it as close to how you found it as possible.
Owen, absolutely superb series of interviews! More, more, more dear, please! xx
Owen can't keep his eyes off the biscuits!
Caring about other peoples children the way you care about your own, dream on
Can you interview Noam Chomsky on American policy, how Britain is aligned politically with it, the consequences that we're seeing today, and the rise of intolerant attitudes towards Muslims and refugees.
+Steven McCallum Recommendation: read M. Curtis' Book --> 'Secret Affairs',
illustrates all too well that much of today's spin, rhetoric, and media
coverage is utterly ridiculous (relevance: Muslims, refugees, migrant crisis, fossil fuels and illegal wars... and the various "crimes" of various Western leaders)
The best Owen Jones Meets yet. Loved it. Inspirational.
Shami Chakrabati and Doreen(mother of Stephen) Lawrence were chosen to carry the Olympic flag at the London Olympics.
Would love to see an interview with Selina Todd, Ed Milliband or Sadiq Kahn.
what a wonderful woman, I think I have a brain crush on her
Please release the full version of the Jacob Rees-mogg video. I am his greatest fan. I will pay your editor; reply with his paypal and state the amount.
Lara Dollar It doesn't take long to upload an unedited video; editing takes much longer. I don't care about jump cuts and smoothness. There should be a 2nd youtube channel for the raw unedited footage. I'm sure people will donate for it.
Lara Dollar Woops, my fault for skim-reading. Perhaps Owen is just self-conscious about his awkwardness.
Hopefully this video doesn't get linked on Stromfront like your last video did.
+Roland White What happened?
Arsenal Nazis invaded Owen's video on the refugees and started spreading Nazi propaganda, saying how great Hitler is and saying how mass immigration is like genocide.
Roland White Standard stuff then.
Interesting... my comment defending Israel has been removed.
#NoHasbara #BDS
What is a director of liberty? never heard of it.
2:00 This is important
I never really understood why the Conservatives, typically the party of the employers and landowners, would be anti-immigration and Labour, typically the party of the workers in the UK, would be pro-immigration. Surely it should be the other way round as that would benefit the two different sections of society better
+Install a Friend Lloyd says ''Hi''................
+Install a Friend Labour is also an internationalist party that believes in helping those who are most vulnerable, regardless of there nationality, so on the refugee crisis there position is entirely consistent with there beliefs, and I think that most Labour politicians, regardless of the era, would agree with that.
Because while the Tories are no doubt aware of the economic benefits of migration, they are also aware of the political benefits of divide and rule (splitting the working class and encouraging us to fight among ourselves) and of scapegoating (blaming the problems which are the direct result of 37 years and counting of Tory/Blairite government, policies, and ideology on immigrants).
+Install a Friend Anti-immigration, and racism more generally, is harmful to ALL sections of the working class, even 'whites'. What would benefit us (ALL of us) is unity, solidarity, equality, organisation, and militancy; a much stronger left (trade unions, political parties, movements, etc); a political consensus that includes a commitment to full employment, the welfare state, and decent living and working conditions for the entirety of the population.
+Install a Friend They are both for mass migration.
Labour is leftist and explicitly anti-white, and "Conservatives" are for the donor class and shilling for anything that gets those people profits even if they pass the real costs, financial and otherwise off to the host society.
Represent Essex uni with the mug 😂
+Oliver Dunn
im from essex.
Good fences make good neighbors. This whole migrant crisis problem is about the West not expecting excellence from foreigners which is odd because we demand that of each other in West.
Hi Owen, it's someone a little more peripheral than usual, but I'd love to see you interview Professor Guy Standing about the basic income earth network.
Steady Churchill! You'll lose your head with all that nodding!
Jones and Chakrabarti, full of sanctimonious rhetoric, no solutions.
will you make a panama video oppinion video thing?
Owen, I would love to see you interview some religious figures like the Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby, or even the old one, Rowan Williams. I like him and his hairy face.
Economics? Theories? This is kind of nothing to do with anything (but I am trying to get at something, without it becoming too complicated). I don't really understand economics - well, I do in principle... at least the principles that we either understand due to our everyday use in trade and so on or the kind of structures we have (such as money, the Banks, Mortgages, Loans, The central banks, insurance and so on... it starts to get a bit sketchy with anything else). But are there any big gapping gaps - things that are overlooked, or assumed to be as such, or just missed entirely with they way we currently view things?... From what I understand of how crypto currencies emerged (and I understand the conceptual mathematics of encryption pretty well, with numebr theory and so on), currencies weren't the aim, it was more about information and networks so I believe, and currencies just came out in the wash. I do understand what crypto currencies are all about in a practical sense (and why private centralised banking industries see them as essentially a threat - at least the way crypto currencies have been protrayed to me) ...though it concerns me that they could had a layer of complexity... I don't know? - though only parable I have is the search for Quantum Gravity (bear with me - I am not jumping off) - quantum gravity is needed as a theory because einstein's theory of gravity is incompatible with quantum mechanics. With quantum gravity we're getting into the realm of information theory to try and understand what form Quantum Gravity could take - it's a big a leap as Eintein's Theory of Relativity and quantum mechanics away from newtonian physics. Essentially (the way I look at it) is that einstein's relativity is about accelerations - the greater the acceleration (due to gravity or inertia) the more space and time contracts and slows down, and heats up (and light becomes 'blue shifted') and energy is given by E=mc^2 (in all states - so is independant of the observer); while in quatum mechanics the energy of a particle is dependant on it'e frequency of oscilation. Also, a 'particle' is both a wave and a particle - so it can be superimposed and defracted like a wave but also treated as an object with point location that has momentum and can bounce off other objects - but it's behaviour isn't causal in the way newton would have describe as it's behaviour is probabalistic, and what's more, knowledge about certain properties of particle behaviour come at the expense of less knowledge about other properties of a particles behaviour - i.e. either knowing position or momentum but not both at the same time... this probablisitic causality and outcomes and wave-particle duality causes a problem when trying to combine with gravity - becuase gravity (a field) is firstly very weak but also acts at much longer ranges than the other fundamental fields associated with quantum mechanics, and crucially gravity is thought to act (causally) on very tiny scales that we can't even measure yet. The only hope is to observe creatures such as black holes in-which extremes reveal potentially what is going on in terms of joining quantum theory with gravity. In objects not as dense as black holes (neutron stars) matter is prevented from collasping 'into nothing' by the quantum principle that no two particles can occupy the same position in space - so black holes potentially violate that if matter collaspses down into a 'singularity'. So far 'information theories' seem promissing - it has been foud that the only properties a black hole has are it's mass, spin and entropy... entropy is a measure of how much information the black hole contains, and it has been found that this quantity of information (given as a volume - the volume of stuff in the black hole) is proportional to the surface area of it's event horizon - bear in mind just how much greater the actual internal volume of a black hole is due to warpage of space than would appear by measuring the surface area of it's event horizon. The up shot is (it is difficult to explain) that this leads to the conclusion that all three-dimensional things can be represented on a two-dimensional surface - a hologram. It also means that when information falls into a black hole, that it is not lost forever. This still doesn't solve the problem of combining gravity with quauntum theory, but it seems the best kind of approach - that is, to get away from material 'things' to seeing things as manipulations of information. Maybe gravity is a product of uncertainty itself? - 'gravity' increases with uncertainty in the same way as it relates to increasing levels of recorded accelerations. As we zoom in to ever smaller scales it is thought that either space itself could spread out, but most certainly as a result of uncertainty 'position' could spread out - indeed, even in simple experiments (double slit experiement), electrons routinely dissappear and reappear, in the meantime between observations an individual electron is everywhere at once. Considering something like a photon - once created, it immediatley travels at the speed of light, which could require an acceleraion so vast that a volume the size of the whole universe would have to be warped and compacted down into the tiny space where the photon was created. LMAO - is there is similar condundrum after all that with politics and economics... what are they and what aren't they, what do we know and what do we know we don't know, and are there things we don't even know we don't know? I don't want to get to the end of a book on econmics and for the author to just take a cop out and say "that evolution with point the way" - as we know, the various definitions of evolution as applied to humanity - be they the more ultruistic turn of game theory or the right wing of competition is king outlook - is basically framing the political debate today. Solve :P
Woo I can see a University of Essex mug :)
I once asked a holocaust survivor (who was 'welcomed' over here in the 1940s) why society's attitude was different towards refugees today. He answered that it didn't seem different at all, which is either very optimistic or very out of touch.. Perhaps the British felt partly responsible for the suffering of people under the Nazi regime or at least understood what they were living through- not knowing if a bomb was going to land on you during the night. Yet, we feel completely detached from Syrian refugees today because their conflict doesn't effect us necessarily. It would be great if we could just remember that we're all human.
Also, I find it bizarre that the Conservatives (the champions of the free market) take such a hard line on immigration when the free movement of labour is one of the most fundamental aspects of the free market.. just proof it's a fallacy really. Great video Owen!
Agreed with everything she said
+AshK then your an idiot
+matt smith I think you'll find it's you're - hypocrite
We can only hope her successor gets the profile she has earned.
Those biscuits look nice.
a society devoid of compromise is totalitarian - Saul Alinsky
I don't know how she thinks the world will all agree and be united on human rights~ it is our duty to defend our principles. Our democracy is based on many things inc Christianity, Magna Carta and common law. We have the right to disagree and resolve issues through conflict and compromise.
+Stephen Brockie it was in the context of "why not a British Bill of Human Rights rather than European Human Rights" the point being, we live in a global community and we need to espouse human rights abroad as well as here so that we can all enjoy basic protection under the law.
+elthamo i just don't believe in imposing our way of life on other nations. what is the global community you are referring to?
+Stephen Brockie human beings. Who said anything about imposition?
+Stephen Brockie human beings. Who said anything about imposition?
+elthamo i appreciate your idealism but you've lost me at global community = humanity. perhaps give me some examples about these basic protections or rights you want to espouse. the UN has charters which countries often sign up to but as history has shown there is not countries can agree upon.
She's amazing
What an amazing, down-to-earth woman overflowing with eloquence and integrity. We need more of her stamp
I can't work out if she is disingenuous or a bit stupid on some points. The main point being her grouping together of all migrants. It's been said so many times, but many are not refugees. If Europe had a fully open-door policy to all migrants, there would literally be an increase in the population of hundreds of millions in a short time. That is not possible or sustainable or wanted by the public, who are sympathetic to genuine refugees, but will not swallow grouping all migrants under one term and calling then refugees. Shami Chakrabarti ignores these vital points and simplifies the whole situation. Very disappointing. And to draw parallels with such things as her own background, or the Holocaust, with the current situation is also plain incorrect. It's an issue of numbers. Never before have so many arrived on the shores of Europe. I have always quite like Chakrabarti, but on this she is incredibly naive and simplistic.
I don't support the human rights bill simply because it protects such people as Abu Hamza it took 10 years for the right thing to be done and that is simply unnaceptable.
I believe in Common Decency and this is a better option for looking after the right sort of people who live in this country, not such people who believe in hate against the UK.
Shami has been a long time favourite person of mine, always a decent person and an example how to live a good decent life.
Interview Milo Yiannopoulos please
she's a bit good at this eh?
national institution :)
oh wow Shami Chakrabarti. You make me feel so ashamed that I'm not doing anything for the refugee crisis. There but for the grace of life could be me. Enjoy the way Owen listens to and allows interviewee to talk.
When are you going to go on have I got news?
Eloquent lady, I could listen to you for hours.
+Charmian O'Brien So could I, seriously. Shame she's wrong.
Fantastic interview. I have so much respect for Shami. She's thoughtful, knowledgable and speaks with a rationality we rarely get within British politics! Interesting to hear her tone about Tony Blair's 'dangerous politics'. I wonder if the hope she speaks of is Corbyn, someone who signposts human rights and genuine equality as the foundation of a democratic society.
"British privileges for British people" To me that's called living in a civil society , the kind of society unattainable under Sharia Law. I am so tired of British liberals blaming ourselves for ISIS , sure there is no doubt our military actions were partly responsible for their rise , however the ideology comes from Islam. I am also beyond tired of the medias lazy approach to this ideology , they name these groups as though they are some conglomerate where members vote for board members, when in reality Boko Haram , Isis , Al-Queda they all share an ideology that differs sightly but shares more common ground than it has differences and it all comes from Islam.
+K Fed What does it mean to be British? I would like to hear your definition in order to better understand your viewpoint.
+Robert S. Reilly Firstly you do not need my definition of what Britishness is subjectively to myself in order to better understand anything I have just said. However like stated , Britishness is entriely subjective , nationalism in this country is weak and there is no strong identity in Britain. For me what being British means is quite irrelevant , a respect for our history , in particular the heroes of world war 2 and the subsequent struggles for liberty and freedoms we enjoy today. That is crucial in maintaining a civil, semi-cohesive society. In this country we seem to have forgot about this fight , and we allow misogynistic 6th century barbaric Sharia courts in our country to appease a sect of Muslims. We allow Imams to preach anti -western propaganda under the guise of free speech at our nations biggest mosques. We see in poll after poll that a section of Muslim society supports Jihad , outlawing homosexuality , maintaining dominance over their wives, and this is in our own liberal backyard. Anyone worth the oxygen they breath that calls themselves a Liberal can no longer defend the many disgustingly backwards parts of Islam.
GiantPotato what if you are second or third generation from immigrant parents? You may in that case never even have visited India.
K Fed regardless of religion UK law still applies. How does someone else choosing to conduct their life by their own religions principles affect your or my freedom or civil liberty? Can I see your sources for these polls so that I can assess them for myself? Homosexuality was illegal in parts of the UK until the mid eighties and plenty of UK born men are mysoginists, non of those problems are solely attributable to Islam.
K Fed sorry I've omitted part of your comment. I agree entirely with you that the two world wars are an important part of our history and of the other nations involved, but that doesn't mean it's everyones history. Ours is just a part of a much grander narrative, that of the history of the world, or the history of humanity to take it to an even larger frame of reference. In reference to your later points keep in mind that homosexuality is still considered wrong by the major Christian churches in the UK and the catholic church still doesn't ordain women... I'm just not sure that any of those issues are Muslim issues, they are issues for the whole of our society.
Can we not just make Shami PM for life and be done with it?
Nice biscuits
June 23. Vote LEAVE. Spending £9.3m of taxpayers money on pro-EU propaganda leaflets sums David Cameron's desperation up.
+Matt Puddy I like it how eurosceptics seem to think the best way to convince lefties before the referendum is turning up on their web pages and channels and posting arguments completely irrelevant to the original post.
+JDrakeify thank you, I like it too.
That lipstick is a poor choice...
Whats the difference between Owen Jones and Shami Chakrabarti. Shami Chakrabarti has been on Have i got news for you. Not suprising. The furthest Owens got to comedy is Nailing his cycle to the wall and doing a Verve Video. LOL
She's lovely - Warmth and sense in a vast cold alienating ocean.
As a British person I don't feel my personal values are under threat from an influx of refugees. A core value I hold is to help those in need. I know Britain alone cannot do everything, but a big step in the right direction would be to begin a Europe wide discussion on how we can work together to help these desperate people. I see much of the discourse in our media, in our politics and thus in the general public to be cold and callous - are these two of the British values we fear losing?
haaaaaa Haaaaaa Haaaaaa, independence.
I'll give you a tenner to agree with me instead, you total slapper.
More like you handed your country over to fascists.
What a truly inspirational woman.
Shami Chakrabarti is marvelous. She really is.
What a wonderful woman 👍
Waiting for the racists to come in. Come at me Bro
+Rafsan Fatboy Read my previous comments.