Did Jesus Exist?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- Large numbers of atheists, humanists, and conspiracy theorists are raising one of the most pressing questions in the history of religion: “Did Jesus exist?”
Learn more about the Freedom From Religion Foundation at ffrf.org.
Who else realizes that the "age of miracles" hastily ended when photography was invented?
Exactly! The con artists had to find a new hobby.
They’re still trying to find new ways to tear peoples wallets
No sir. It may seem so to the untrained eye. It was actually because the last dragon died a few years before the invention of the camera and all the magic went out of the world.
Exactly 😌
The "age of miracles" was resurrected when PhotoShop was invented.
Face it religion is cultural, a group of people formed to fight off invaders or people not their type. Religions are based on geographical and racial differences originally. They all have a God with a myth behind it that cannot be proven, and each says their God is the only true God and all others will be punished and we will be rewarded after death. Each is tailor made to a specific geographical and cultural region
The idea of waking from the dead is only because the state of being comatose was unknown in the first century. And you mentioned a Black Sabbath....Hmmmm I didn't know Ossie Osborne was there! Gee he held his age extremely well! LOL
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. Seneca Younger.
Good quote.
this had escaped me ! I have to read Seneca again. Thanks. It is so true !
Fantastic, forgot about that quote
I really needed to hear this! The religious upbringing I had gave me a great deal of depression and anxiety and Dan has been a blessing.
🎉 Congratulations on taking the first step to freedom
Did a superhuman from another dimension come to earth on a suicide mission in order to replace a piece of stolen fruit? Hmm...
Summers Time Entertainment. sounds legit dude. 😏
Maybe he brought a rib with him as well.
Ask the Talking Snake
@@marshalphillips - but that creature is so difficult to contact. Where is it lurking these days (other than in the minds of semi-insane people)?
God has the answer to ...... his very own problem what a stand up guy
Why was the whole Jesus thing created? Was there a need for another religion beyond Judaism or Hebrew....uhh....ism, at that time? Did they include the "credibility" of an already successful religion, for some built in credibility for this new Christianity thing? Reminds me of how Joseph Smith used Christianitys well established religion, to stack on the Mormon nonsense. If you want to invent a religion (or a sect) it's best to use something that's already there.
Jews in those days and still today, do not actively proselytize. You, generally speaking, have to be born Jewish. The Jewish/Hebrew religion is only for Jews. The 'teachings' of the mythical Jesus were originally intended just for Jews as well. It wasn't until Paul came along that Christianity began to accept Gentiles.
@Paul Morgan Not that I don't find Christianity just as unpalatable.
Read, "Ceasar's Messiah". It clearly answers the question.
Dan and Annie Laurie both deserve to live forever they are truly open to many things and that’s a plus
Was Jesus illiterate since he never took the time to write one word in his own behalf?
He came from one of the least educated places in the world, in his time, so I would not be surprised if he was illiterate.
There is no evidence of that, even if he wants it wouldn’t really matter.
But he was god so of course he could write without knowing how to write
lol because he never existed
Hearing Dan Barker give his insights, and knowledge, and answers, about the existence of Jesus was WONDERFUL. But then, hearing Dan Barker read the phone book would ALSO be wonderful. But seriously, I appreciate Barker's speech qualities and characteristics. And this was the final straw; I will now, finally, get Barker's books.
I use to think Richard Dawkins was the best speaker on the topic then I learned of Dan Barker. Between the two i think it’s about a tie but if the tie had to be broken I’m thinking I’d give it to Barker.
You’d think the “son of god” would know to leave some more credible evidence other than a self referencing book.
which is not even wroten by himself
All he had to do is look into the future and mention skyscrapers, planes, cars and other technology. He made a really bad choice to have it written it in that time period only and then play hide-and-seek for two thousand years.
@@johnbee3416 It would have been great if he could have talked about your beautiful smiling face, John Bee. 😍
@@johnbee3416 He even let people believe that the earth was flat. Not a single word to the contrary.
Written by minions.....
As an Atheist all my life .. I was brought up that Jesus was like Santa, Robin Hood, and Bigfoot. A myth with no evidence. As an adult ... I was right. :)
You were right? Ok, we will see at the end..
@@florinmarc5510just like " we will see at the end " with Thor, and Horus, Quiziticotl, and the great JuJu of the mountain.
You guys make me think of the 700 Club for atheists. Love it.
I thought the same!!!
Same thoughts here!!!
Is there any extra-biblical evidence for the existence of Paul, aka Saul of Tarsus?
why did they STOP writing the bible? Did existence stop? Did god disappear? If the bible were true, it wouldn't have an ending...
Well the books of the bible were chosen in the 3rd or 4th century and I guess after that everyone thought going to church was where God would do the rest of his speaking. I know my old church put out a ton of books and I think some of the pastors would insist on those being divinely inspired.
Same reason as the Koran, to their believers each is the FINAL word of God.
Good point. Its clearly that the bible is just a book. LITERATURE. 😘💋
Only sheep need a sheppard.
Sheeple need a steeple!😁👍
Only humans need metaphors ~
Ram-a-lamb-a-ding-dong 🐏 🔔🥁
"Something must have happened" - Josephus.
So true
"People are sheep." --Arnold Schwarzenegger
I myself when I looked at many Pharoah carvings, I realized that every carving has cross: circle attached to cross..later in Christianity every body has his cross..
I wish if the reades to my comment share me my finding...!!!
So let me get this straight: God -- the Big ''G''-- comes to earth masquerading as his child in order to correct a flaw in creation utilizing the assistance of a companion metaphysical force, the ''Holy Spirit," and further grants everyone a sort of eternal pass to exist in favorable terms if they buy the story? Uh, doesn't that seem a bit of a stretch?
No. Billions have swallowed it & billions made from it. There really is no hope for humanity.
i love your explanation. So true !
I might go to Jesus, the Mexican ophthalmologist.
isnt that corrupt?
Neil Breen
If you understand God to be the supreme emptiness of the universe+beyond, the story makes a lot of sense. All matter is created from emptiness, the supreme meditative attainment is emptiness. But zero dimensionality is not empty of spirit.
for a god inspired book it sure has a lot of inaccuracies.
@johnny dark
Obviously god did not get an education. He was an autodidact, and not a very bright one. He thought he knew it all. His biggest mistake.
And a lot of murder, rape, incest, and degradation of people.
@@Ploskkky 😂😂😂
@@Ploskkky - Very true indeed. That's why gods get on my nerves every time people tend to alude to them.
Aron Ra makes a good point in his shows. If God could just speak and the whole universe came into being, why did he need people to write the Bible? Why not just speak that into existence? Why did he need Noah to build the ark to save the animals? Why not just speak that into existence too? And if God exists out of time, and knows the past, present and future and is all powerful (omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent) why does he need people to do anything? And if he already knew what humanity would do and act to start with, why would he come to regret creating them and have the flood? Why wouldn't he have known that Adam and Eve would do what they did? If he knew humanity would fail, why set them up for failure in the first place?
It's pretty amazing when you hear people say jesus is all powerful etc, then you try to test it like heal this or that, they they have this escape clause "sometimes he says no" .. maybe that's the reason the Bible says don't test god .. BECAUSE HE WILL FAIL.
This question has been settled beyond a shadow of a doubt by an ex-Anglican priest, Tom Harpur. His book "The Pagan Christ" is the most convincing argument I've ever come across.
Thanks! I'll have to read it.
Thank you for this excellent discussion! The interaction between Annie Laurie - who has never believed, and Dan - who used to believe - was really quite fascinating.
The logic of religion: God exists because the Bible says so and the Bible is true because it's the word of God. Hmmm.....hard to refute that brilliant statement of logical reasoning.
You nailed it in one sentence
Christians try to worm out of everything by saying to not take the Bible literally which is comical. Why would you use a book as your life guide if you didn't take it literally?
Circular and perfect for non thinkers.
@@misssarahashplant31 For moral teachings in parables....not all Christians literally believe the Bible, given it is historic, mythical, political propaganda and borrowed mythology
Generalization lol. Some people don't even believe in any religious belief yet they believe God exists.
Wow, Annie Laurie Gaylor is so amazing. I saw her when she was guest of Oprah Winfrey and she almost look the same after all these years. I so admire her very much for her character, beauty, poise, and values.
She looked so much look drew Barrymore at the time
She interrupted him a lot
Even if Jesus existed, he truly is useless.
I went to college for almost ten years to become a Christian Apologist. No... the Jesus of the Gospels did not exist.
This is an irrefutable fact - and will become more and more recognized over the coming years.
Today I tuned in just to hear the opening song.
Wandering messianic Hebrew preachers were part of the landscape in those days
as were gifted writers that could construct a good story.
@James- ... and they skillfully expounded based upon 3 common elements to the human mind,... Fear, Delusion and Denial.
Thank-you Annie and Dan! There is a higher probability for Santa Claus; actually presents and turkeys DO show up on Christmas! LOL.
Christians have no evidence outside their bible to give justification for their religion as being superior to all other religions. On top of which, their bible is 50% Jewish, meaning that Jews and Christians are closely related. One religion believing that the savior arrived and the other that the savior has not arrived.
So who is right? What evidence does the Jewish faith have compared to the Christian? They have holy writings just like everyone else.
So what does the Christian faith have which sets them apart from all other religions? They have holy writings just like everyone else.
What about Hinduism? Do they have any evidence which is superior to all other religions? Nope. They have holy writings just like everyone else.
Does any religion have any evidence which is superior to any other religion? Nope. All religions have holy writings at the core of their belief. They all claim that their writings are the one true source of information.
And if you look back at history, the so called bible comes from a oral history just like all other religions. They all had an oral history which was later written down long after the "events" of their holy people. The bible is created by humans who got together and attempted to rid the religion of all the other stories so it could be stable. Must like if some one went around and collected all the stories of Paul Bunyan or Johnny Appleseed and then consolidated them, trimming out what they didn't like, then publishing their own version of the stories.
Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. And the creation of religion continues today with Scientology, Adventism or Sikhism. It will continue on because of tyranny of the ignorant.
Christianity is nothing more than a Jewish sect, as is Islam (through Christianity). One religion, three names.
Jewish is the tree trunk then comes Christianity, then whoops someone branched off with Islam yet a twig of the tree that's grown like a weed.
And all because we are frightened little children who do not want to die.
@@JamesRichardWiley - Fact! Denial and fear of mortality is the most universal symptom of the human mind.
😄😄I love that theme song.
Nah, I have to go with Bart Ehrman on this one. Watch his debate with mythicist Robert Price. It’s a beat down. And sorry but Dan Barker is being extremely misleading to imply that it’s a close split among scholars. The vast, vast majority believe that there was a historical Jesus. And the case for it is very much more compelling than the crazy talk from the mythicists.
I feel she always interrupting him, rushing him...i found it hard to follow what he was saying. He's a very brilliant man I ve learn so much from him already.
I love Julia Sweeney.
I remember watching her on SNL when I was a kid.
Not only is she funny, but she helped me become an ateist.
Thank you, Julia :)
Jesus walks into a Holiday Inn, puts three nails on the counters and asks, "could you put me up for the night?"
Believers think jesus is coming back,,,, like he was nailed to a boomerang?
Osiris did not have a "virgin birth." He was the son of the Goddess Nut and the God Neb and conceived after sexual intercourse.
Same thing for Hercules. his mother was Alcmena and his father Zeus.
You atheists (or whatever you are) should really get your facts straight.
Yet another outstanding discussion from FFRF.
The Sun-God HORUS was worshiped nearly 1,000 Years before the “STORY” of Jesus. Check these parallels:
1.Both were conceived of a virgin.
2.Both were the "only begotten son" of a god (either Osiris or Yahweh)
3.Horus's mother was Meri, Jesus's mother was Mary.
4.Horus's foster father was called Jo-Seph, and Jesus's foster father was Joseph.
5.Both foster fathers were of royal descent.
6.Both were born in a cave (although sometimes Jesus is said to have been born in a stable).
7.Both had their coming announced to their mother by an angel.
Horus; birth was heralded by the star Sirius (the morning star). Jesus had his birth heralded by a star in the East (the sun rises in the East).
8.Ancient Egyptians celebrated the birth of Horus on December 21 (the Winter Solstice). Modern Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25.
9.Both births were announced by angels (this si nto the same as number 7).
10.Both had shepherds witnessing the birth.
11.Horus was visited at birth by "three solar deities" and Jesus was visited by "three wise men".
12.After the birth of Horus, Herut tried to have Horus murdered. After the birth of Jesus, Herod tried to have Jesus murdered.
13.To hide from Herut, the god That tells Isis, "Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child." To hide from Herod, an angel tells Joseph to "arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt."
14.When Horus came of age, he had a special ritual where hsi eye was restored. When Jesus (and other Jews) come of age, they have a special ritual called a Bar Mitzvah.
15.Both Horus and Jesus were 12 at this coming-of-age ritual.
Neither have any official recorded life histories between the ages of 12 and 30.
16.Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus. Jesus was baptized in the river Jordan.
17.Both were baptized at age 30.
18.Horus was baptized by Anup the Baptizer. Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist.
19.Both Anup and John were later beheaded.
20.Horus was taken from the desert of Amenta up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Set. Jesus was taken from the desert in Palestine up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Satan.
21.Both Horus and Jesus successfully resist this temptation.
22.Both have 12 disciples.
23.Both walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, and restored sight to the blind.
24.Horus "stilled the sea by his power." Jesus commanded the sea to be still by saying, "Peace, be still."
25.Horus raised his dead father (Osiris) from the grave. Jesus raised Lazarus from the grave. (Note the similarity in names when you say them out loud. Further, Osiris was also known as Asar, which is El-Asar in Hebrew, which is El-Asarus in Latin.)
26.Osiris was raised in the town of Anu. Lazarus was raised in Bethanu (literally, "house of Anu").
27.Both gods delivered a Sermon on the Mount.
28.Both were crucified.
29.Both were crucified next to two thieves.
30.Both were buried in a tomb.
31.Horus was sent to Hell and resurrected in 3 days. Jesus was sent to Hell and came back "three days" later (although Friday night to Sunday morning is hardly three days).
32.Both had their resurrection announced by women.
33.Both are supposed to return for a 1000-year reign.
34.Horus is known as KRST, the anointed one. Jesus was known as the Christ (which means "anointed one").
35.Both Jesus and Horus have been called the good shepherd, the lamb of God, the bread of life, the son of man, the Word, the fisher, and the winnower.
36.Both are associated with the zodiac sign of Pisces (the fish).
37.Both are associated with the symbols of the fish, the beetle, the vine, and the shepherd's crook.
38.Horus was born in Anu ("the place of bread") and Jesus was born in Bethlehem ("the house of bread").
39."The infant Horus was carried out of Egypt to escape the wrath of Typhon. The infant Jesus was carried into Egypt to escape the wrath of Herod. Concerning the infant Jesus, the New Testament states the following prophecy: 'Out of Egypt have I called my son.'"
40.Both were transfigured on the mount.
41.The catacombs of Rome have pictures of the infant Horus being held by his mother, not unlike the modern-day images of "Madonna and Child."
Noted English author C. W. King says that both Isis and Mary are called "Immaculate".
42.Horus says: "Osiris, I am your son, come to glorify your soul, and to give you even more power." And Jesus says: "Now is the Son of Man glorified and God is glorified in him. If God is glorified in him, God will glorify the Son in himself, and will glorify him at once."
Horus was identified with the Tau (cross).
Thanks for this, I'm a lazy guy and can't get into research of fantasy, but I might just take screen shots and get this printed,,,, Christians be afraid!
Many parts of the Old and New Testaments seem to have been copied from older religions, myths and stories.
Thank you so much!
Nice lies.
1. They most certainly weren’t, there’s absolutely no mention in any ancient Egypt texts that suggest that Horus was born of a virgin, some legends have his mother Isis having him with Osiris’s Brother, some with her sleeping with Osiris’s a dead body, and then conceiving him but absolutely no early sources suggest that he was born of a virgin.
2. No they weren’t, Horus, there’s absolutely no Egyption texts that call Horus the” only begotten son. He went by many titles king of kings and lord of lords, he was also called sky god, but he was never called the begotten son.
3. His father was Osiris and his mother was Isis, there’s absolutely no mention of any ancient Egyptian texts of a father named Jo-seph, an alternate name for isis is Meir, but they are the same person, and Jesus never had a divine mother. if he did those are different names then Mary or Joseph.
5.This is a vague similarity that isn’t even true, I mean Osiris was worshiped and he was called King so I guess you could say that’s royalty.
6 this is a Nother vague similarity, and Jesus was not born in the key if he was born in a manger. Nope not true and there’s absolutely no ancient Egyptian sources that mention this.
7. Nope there’s absolutely no mention of Jesus’s or Horus’s and birthdays and either texts, christians don’t claim that Jesus‘s birthday is literally on December 25, it’s more likely that it was in earlier December according to Greg Evans, that’s just the estimate because it’s estimated that Mary might’ve conceived Jesus in March which if you add up nine months of pregnancy that would mean he would be born in December sometime in December. And some ancient Egyptian sources suggest that Horus might’ve been born in October or November but not December and not December 21 in specific, and even if this is true these are not the same days coincidences happen another vague similarity. And winter solstice and Christmas have nothing in common. There is a little bit of truth to it though and Plutarch he does mention Horus and his birth and there is a reason to believe it might’ve been around December the time of winter solstice, but not December 25 in particular.
8.Another vague similarity that isn’t even true, there’s no mention of there being shepherds at the i’m birth of Horus in any ancient Egyptian texts.
9.Another vague similarity, and there’s nowhere in the Bible where it says Jesus was visited by three wisemen, it doesn’t give a specific number. Are you even trying the only similarity is the number three, this is an Association fallacy.
11. I think you mean Heut, Who also went by other titles Huh, Hah,Hauh, Huah,and Hehu, but never Herut, and he was a sky god, and I can’t find anything that says he tried to murder Horus. This is another vague similarity that isn’t even true, because king Herod specifically tried to kill Jesus when he was born, I mean is this seriously the extent that you’re going through this is pathetic and laughable so two different people that had similar names tried to kill someone, 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Man you are really desperate.
12. No evidence of that whatsoever.
13. Another vague similarity two totally different things. Zero mention of such event in Egyptian mythology.
14. Another vague similarity and also I’m gonna need your sufficient evidence for this claim.
15. Horus was never baptized at least there’s no mention of it in Egyptian mythology, and there’s also no mention of him being 30 either.
16. No record in Egyptian mythology for such event.
17. There is absolutely no record of anyone named Anup the baptizer, if you have an early ancient source that mentions him please cite it.
18. No record of anyone named Anup the baptizer, no this is made up nonsense.
19. I’m going to need some evidence, because I can’t find anything that mentions such an event about Horus.
20. This is an incredibly vague similarity, Luke skywalker resist the temptation, so did Batman, so did Indiana Jones, so did so many other figures this is nonsense. And way too general to draw any serious parallels.
21.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 this has to be my favorite made up similarity absolutely no record of Horus having 12 disciples.
22. Did miracles is incredibly general and way too vague, because all ancient deities do miracles, but there’s absolutely no mention of Horus doing any of these specific things.
23. Again incredibly vague similarity, which isn’t even the same, and again I can’t find a record of Horus doing such a thing in Egyptian mythology, or any scholar mentioning this.
24. Again raising people from the dead, is an incredibly vague similarity, and no Horus’s father Osiris was not raised from the dead by Horus, he was not raised from the dead at all he stayed in the netherworld or the underworld. And these are totally two different figures so even if this is true this is not a significant similarity. Yeah Osiris was never called Asar, and Asar is not El in Hebrew, it’s happy or blessed. And that is also false but even if that was true and the Bible is not written in Latin it was written in Hebrew and Aramaic and Greek.
25.Osiris was never raised from the dead.
26. Nope no mention of that in ancient Egyptian texts whatsoever, I can’t find any Egyptologist or scholar that says this.
Sources.
Judith Pape, Ken Biles-invoking Egyptian gods.
Eric Hornug-concepts of God in Egypt.
Claude Traunecker-The Gods of Egypt.
Christian Roy-tradition Festivities: A Multiculture Encyclopedia.
Plutarch- isis and Osiris.
James Frazier- Adonis, Attis, Osiris.
E.A Wallis Budge- The Gods of the Egyptians.
It’s either you’re dishonest, you’ve been lied to, or are you lack any and all ability to do any adequate research whatsoever.
As always, a fascinating discussion on "Ask an Atheist."
Many thanks, Dan and Annie Laurie.
It's mind-boggling that, throughout human history, billions of people, worldwide, have had the impulsion to not only create spiritual pantheons/hierarchies, but to *kill and oppress* millions of fellow humans who refuse to acknowledge, worship and serve their "only and true god(s)." That incalculable *wasted human potential* is perhaps the greatest indictment against all religions.
When will our world's people evolve past this heinous religious delusion and blindness - and begin to celebrate wholesome Humanist values; along with real-world economic and social justice and betterment? This is the sane and noble Way.
Especially the crimes against their own children, hijacking their brains.
The religious wars are a dead giveaway.
Unfortunately it's never gonna happen, at least not for probably several hundred generations
Jesus still owes me the 50 bucks he borrowed 3 months ago.
No, that was hey-soos from Guadalajara
Seems Jesus has the same amount of evidence as Robin Hood or King Arthur.
Less
Santa Clause.
That was going to be my comment. As far as I'm concerned, all three are agglomerations of pre-existing myths and legends. You can add Moses, Noah and Abraham to that list as well. You don't even have to confine yourself to the Bible, as every religious belief in recorded history can be shown to be a mishmash (read plagiarism) of previous tales.
Yup
The only Jesus I believe that is real is Jesus Christ lizard that walks on water the name is the green basilisk lizard the Jesus Christ lizard
There must have been an awful lot of gullible people back then but it so unfortunate that there are still people who are.
I’m not at all convinced by the arguments of the mythicists. The outline of the Jesus story (his baptism, his belief that he had a mission, his preaching, his execution) is utterly un-miraculous. And the fact that there are no contemporary accounts of him counts for nothing. The same applies to the vast majority of his contemporaries. Very few people took notice of him at the time. Very few people could write at the time. I don’t accept the miraculous parts any more than Dan Barker does, but I’m more doubtful than he is about the views of the mythicists.
Funny how all athiests desperately try to prove the Bible wrong and Jesus a myth...not with thousands of other gods...there must be something about the Bible and Jesus so powerful that the temptation to resist is so unresistable...
You can tell this guy is a religionist because he is wrong and lying in the same statement.
I am an atheist with 80,000 years at least of atheist culture and , no evidence exists to prove joshua messiah existed, I have no doubt many people with that name existed but not the claims of religious Joshua
If a Hebrew god named Yahweh wanted to make his presence known to his own creations
how difficult would that be?
All of world ancient communities tried to understand the world around them..sun was sacred it brings light, also important for the vegetations....
New culture started spreading: God, angels and prophets....
Even if we could prove that Jesus existed, there would still be zero evidence to support any of the supernatural claims made about him.
Even if Jesus existed as a person, it neither disproves he was delusional, nor it proves his miracle stories and eyewitnesses were not posthumously made up.
I think the panelists are mistaken about the opinion of most critical scholars: they generally agree there was a historical Jesus. What they disagree over is whether he bore any resemblance to the Jesus of orthodox Christianity. These FFRF folks said they tend to not believe the Jesus of the New Testament existed. Maybe they mean the one the New Testament, for the most part, teaches. But the historical Jesus too is in the New Testament. In fact, the NT is the only book that has any information about Jesus.
The better question, I think, is how likely it would have been that a rural Galilean Jesus of Nazareth would have ever taught about himself what Paul taught about him. I think the answer is a clear "No." But the hitch is that Paul did not really teach about him (the historical Jesus) at all but about the allegedly Risen Christ.
I also felt, it annoying, in the beginning of this video, their references to the other Christs. Judas the Galilean was a Jew, not a pagan Greek. The title some gave him would have been the Aramaic for the Hebrew "mashiach," not the Greek "kristos" or anglicized "Christ." Jesus without Christianity can be found in the NT where one person asks Jesus how he could attain eternal life and antoher asks what is the great commandment. Neither answer he gave had anything to do with Christian belief. In fact, it counter the central Christian teaching: rather than say you must believe in his death and resurrection, it says love God and love one another....very Jewish.
Any discussion on a fictitious character is an entire waste of time..
Mark Twain, Herman Melville, Victor Hugo, Jules Verne, Margaret Mitchell, George Orwell, Harper Lee, etc., etc., etc. would probably disagree with you there, as would a whole lot of teachers, professors, and folks who appreciate literature.
There's still people today claiming to be god.
Did "a" Jesus exist? Most certainly.
Did the Jesus described in the texts of the Christian faith exist? No, this is pure mythology.
Despite the work of people I respect like Bart Ehrman, there is absolutely no prerequisite for the faith to be built around anyone from history. This is evident from all the other religions and mythologies built around completely fictitious characters. Zeus, Osiris, Ra, Poseidon, Vishnu and even Yahweh himself, all of these and many more were created from thin air and it is very likely that so to was Jesus of Nazareth.
Jesus does exist, I was stationed with him in the army!
I feel the more important question is how likely was it to find a Matthew, Mark and/or Luke in the middle east back then?
Source.
I am surprised they didn't mention the oldest biblical text we have to day was written long after Jesus death. The earliest manuscript of a New Testament text is a business-card-sized fragment from the Gospel of John, Rylands Library Papyrus P52, which may be as early as the first half of the 2nd century. The oldest text of Josephus which mentioned Jesus is dated to the 12th century. Quit possible this was all made up or the story was changed.
Funny how none of the historians of the day wrote about Jashua who had all these supposed miracles until 30 years after his supposed death (Matthew). These are records of trials and execution of every prisoner, but not Jesus. It appears that a group got together starting a cult or religion and over the next 100 years the myth grew. It appears Paul was the one who created most of the Jesus lore 100 plus years after, although he never met a Jesus. I guess you write a story and it grows and grows. If a Jesus did exist he was the 1st hippy, didnt work and lived off the support of others in his cult.
I've always wondered why the Book of Acts isn't considered as evidence against the existence of Jesus. One of the glaring things I've brought in discussions with those that do believe in Jesus or believe he existed, is why isn't it suspect that when Paul and the other apostles are put on jury, they make their case stating that Jesus who was killed by the Romans is alive and well, no one in the court room bats an eye about it. Matter of fact, they don't even know what Paul was talking about. It seems as though if this character was in fact real and had some form or another affected those in Galilea, someone in that court room would have stood up and demanded his whereabouts, but no one did. Instead, they put Paul in prison because essentially he was annoying the masses and needed him out of the public square.
If you believe, there are no questions. If you don’t believe, then there are no answers!
If god existed there would be no need to prove his existence
Paul Bunyan is real. I've seen his frying pan and he spoke to me and knew my name when I was a child! I wouldn't want to live in a universe without Paul Bunyan! Teach the controversy!
Hahha it makes nonsense
I stood right in front of Paul Bunyan when I was a kid, I SAW him with my own two eyes, and I HEARD him say “Hello, Bernie Pederson from White Bear Lake” with my own two ears! That’s evidence! I have NEVER seen or heard a thing from someone named Jesus who says he’s the son of god. THATS ridiculous!
Paul Bunyan is the Paul of the bible. He hunted down Christians with an axe and circumcized Jewish babies with it. How do I know this? The Holy Cow told me.
Wow! A third of humanity believes in something and someone that never existed. Biggest hoax in the history of the world.
Fallacy of gratuitous affirmation, Dan Barker is not an historian.
I'm a myth -theist lol
Lol
@Lynne Shale You are a myth-theist ? I'm a beLIEver!
Within the many circles of theology ... if you are not faithful to Judaism, then don't expect Jesus to be faithful to you. From all mythological accounts, Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi ... Rabboni ... Great teacher of Judaism. I suggest that you don't try to change the "subject." Also, (within theology) if Jesus was born perfect as a baby Jew, to parents that practiced only Judaism, one can’t improve on “perfection.” I believe that Jesus was a fictitious character, "used" in the new testament, to in turn, start a new religion, foreign to, and offensive to ... Judaism.
I remember as a child, overhearing some adults scoffing at the audacity of a black Jesus, as an adult i now am a big fan of the muscled up Korean Jesus, although the Chinese Jesus has that whole Buddha belly thing going on, it's so hard to chose.
My favorite is during communion:
Lunchables Jesus
It's not a choice, It's first a calling.
She is so sweet and full of knowledge.❤
Jesus seems to have been a Hillelite Pharisee who was heavily influenced by the apocalyptic sect of the Essenes.
Jesus was an Essene so was John the Baptist, they practiced a Vegan diet and they taught vegan diet!
If there was not a magic Jesus, he was just some schmuck. It does not matter if he existed.
Buddha was not magic either, nevertheless an entire eastern philosophy has risen around his ideas.
Sadly in christianity there are so many disgusting, pernicious ideas, as opposed to Buddhism.
In the early Christian catacombs in Rome Jesus is shown in carvings as a beardless youth with a staff. The bearded Jesus of later Christian times seems to pop up after the Zeus of Phidias is transported from Olympia to Constantinople. The work was so famous as a representation of a god power that it may have been used as a pattern for Jesus icons. Certainly Jesus has not always been depicted as essentially Swedish!
My contractor Jesus Alvarez most definitely exists.
My perception is that the earliest of theologians claimed that gods were talking to them ... but that story was not as effective as the theologians expected. So they created stories that humans were SO evil ... and SO disobedient to the gods, that the gods felt impelled to send their own sons to earth ... to in turn warn the evil humans that they MUST repent of sin TO these sons of gods ... or spend eternity in the "afterlife" suffering.
The supposed savior of souls of Christians, was just the most recent savior-myth story. Example as follows, and please note how Chrishna was spelled, before the Christians came up with the word Christ, and how the Hindus then changed the spelling of their supposed savior to "Krishna."
From the book … The World’s Sixteen Crucified Saviors … Christianity before Christ, by Kersey Graves … first published in 1875.
and finally these twenty Jesus Christs (accepting their character for the name) laid the foundation for the salvation of the world, and ascended back to heaven.
1. Chrishna of Hindostan.
2. Budha Sakia of India.
3. Salivahana of Bermuda
4. Zulis, or Zhule, also Osiris and Orus, of Egypt.
5. Odin of the Scandinavians.
6. Crite of Chaldea.
7. Zoroaster and Mithra of Persia.
8. Baal and Taut, “the only Begotten of God,” of Phenicia.
9. Indra of Thibet.
10. Bali of Afghanistan.
11. Jao of Nepaul.
12. Wittoa of the Bilingonese.
13. Thammuz of Syria.
14. Atys of Phrygia.
15. Xamolxis of Thrace.
16. Zoar of the Bonzes.
17. Adad of Assyria.
18. Deva Tat,aud Sammonocadam of Siam.
19. Alcides of Thebes.
20. Mikado of the Sintoos.
21. Beddru of Japan.
22. Hesus or Eros, and Bremrillah, of the Druids.
23. Thor, son of Odin, of the Gauls.
24. Cadmus of Greece.
25. Hil and Feta of the Mandaites.
26. Gentaut and Quexalcote of Mexico.
27. Universal Monarch of the Sibyls.
28. Ischy of the Island of Formosa.
29. Divine teacher of Plato.
30. Holy One of xaca.
31. Fohi and Tien of China.
32. Adonis, son of the virgin Io of Greece.
33. Ision and Quirinus of Rome.
34. Prometheus of Caucasus.
35. Mohammud, or Mahomet, of Arabia.
These have all received divine honors, have nearly all been worshiped as Gods, or sons of Gods; were mostly incarnated as Christs, Saviors, Messiahs, or Mediators; not a few of them were reputedly born of virgins; some of them filling a character almost identical with that ascribed by the Christian’s bible to Jesus Christ; many of them like him, are reported crucified; and all of them, taken together, furnish a prototype and parallel for nearly every important incident and wonder-inciting miracle, doctrine and precept recorded in the New Testament, of the Christian’s Savior. Surely, with so many Saviors the world cannot, or should not, be lost.
Don't you just love watching a discussion where someone keeps interrupting their interlocutor in the middle of giving their answer? By the 26th minute, I was so annoyed at this lady repeatedly stepping on Dan's replies. Let the man finish his thought before you decide to derail it, madam! This 6-year-old video frayed my nerves, for crying out loud. You spoiled it for me, ma'am, honestly. Dan is a saint for putting up with your poor conversational skills, if one can even call it that.
Yes, there was a lot of Messias around year zero.
But, there are not a lot of stories about them that are proven false.
So, if the biblical Jesus was a human that existed, is a 0 or 100 % issue.
If you add divine powers to Churchill and make up stories where he did miracles during WW2, it doesn't prove that that person actually lived.
So, no. The biblical Jesus never existed.
And if we have seminars 2000 years later to discuss if the founder of Churchilism ever existed, we are wasting our time and giving more power to the Churchilists.
Christianity is dying all over the world. It's going to get more extreme before it gets worse.
Leave it alone, and it will die faster.
Well lets see...first. how many virgins did it take to make Jesus?
Then the almighty would need a little girl of 13? And "his" commandments, especially the tenth. which puts the female second to a house, like furniture? But "he" needs her help?
Ran out of adams or atoms?
And the "fact"? he said so much, yet never wrote anything himself? Illiterate or a dream of boys!?. Lets not forget the carpenter, who has no legacy? To think,With him, who rose from the dead? And Not a single follower thought to save a shrine to the kings of kings? Not even a nite stand?
Although pyramids were built for lesser known boys? And why would #1need a book, a almighty would put all we should know already in us, like breathing!
What century is this?
Remarkably, the idea that there wasn’t a Jesus becomes more powerful in light of numerous other “Jesuses” (Horace, etc.) for each civilization over the years. They all credit the date of a virgin birth on December 25; all started their ministry at age 30, had 12 disciples, were crucified, rose from the dead after three days, and other facts taken from astrology. There were maybe 100 Christs, numerous floods, arks, and other phenomena. It makes sense that Jesus survived since he was on the cross for only six hours, could have survived and that would explain the postmortem casuistry. There are even parallel stories that appear in Buddhism.
Jesus exists...? ...certainly not. Nothing more nothing less.Ask anyone who thinks and reasons for themselves. Christiany is slavery under the colour of law. No god, jesus, law or king can save you. You've got to save yourself. G'day from Australia mate 🇦🇺 🪃 👌.
I wish I could have a god conversation with my husband like you two!! Last time I tried it he threatened to cancel my credit cards and cancel our summer vacation 😢
I'm probably the only atheist in NC, is there an FFRF around here? :)
I'm in NC and I'm a recent atheist. Check out meetup groups.
She was interrupting him in mid-thought way too much. Let him complete the sentence and the thought before you springboard him onto something else.
atheist: [noun] a person who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods : one who subscribes to or advocates atheism.
So, I guess you can have a strong spiritual nature+discipline and still be an atheist. But I think Christians are atheists too, because I don't see God as different than the supreme emptiness of the universe+beyond. The accounts of Jesus + Buddha are parallel and very similar. The Orthodox form of Christianity is very similar to Buddhism.
Regardless, if you think that science is the ultimate reality, you're seriously mistaken. Science is the study of the transient. Spirituality is the discovery of what is permanent, that which transcends material.
Say and think what you want, but one has to agree there is a entity that is in control as the evolution/big bang came from somewhere. Jesus claims it all, and no other being who walked the Earth comes even close in comparison. So very arrogant to act like you know more than literally billions who came before you and believe the Truth, and will live in eternity with him in Heaven. and your the smart one
the jesus is myth - all the way down, right from the beginning.
read paul, it's all there
There also appears to be evidence that the name Jesus was a very popular name back then.
How many different Jesus' broke the law and was punished?
Hermes, Mercury, Jesus, believers, wolves in sheep clothing.
Why don’t this lady Dan to complete his sentences …? Frustrating
Did Jesus Exist? Short answer? No.
Longer answer: Probably not.
Tah dah!
Josephus was the adopted son of Roman Emperor Vespasian. He wrote the history of the emperor's son Titus bringing Judea to heel after the sacking of Jerusalem and the Temple. The model for the fabricated Christ myth was Apollonius of Tyana who actually existed and is on the historical record.
In all fairness, we know even less about Apollonius than about Jesus and it's almost all much much later hearsay. There seems to be a short fragment of his writing still in existence, but his philosophy is pretty much in opposition to what Christianity teaches. I would call this a fail.
This was excellent. For those wanting to expand their knowledge of the question, please see the book Jesus the Magician, a scholarly work by Morton Smith. Magic was practised by the Jews and it had a place in their society that should be understood and exposed. I didn't understand many of the quotes attributed to Jesus, until I read Jesus the Magician.
As if His and Peter’s homes haven’t always been known.
Did jesus exist....hell no.
Why did the gospel writers actually want to write the gospels?
Nothing better than an beautiful and intelligent woman(unfortunately a rare confluence these days)! Dan Barker does a great job as well, keep it up guys!
Love the show
I hope FFRF can squeeze all we can get from their co-president Dan Barker.
Thanks for showing a photo of the Paul Bunyan statue from Bangor, Maine. I lived there for 11 years and that statue is huge, grinning at all the tourists driving past. He's made of fiberglass, by the way, and there's a time-capsule in his base.
Anybody can rationalize what they choose to believe.
If Joshua existed and considered himself the Jewish messiah, that is not the same thing as the ‘Son of God’ that Christians believe in. The Jewish messiah the Jews wait for was not a supernatural being but a political leader like King David who God would inspire to restore the kingdom of God on earth, I.e., a liberated Israel restored to her former glory free from oppression and foreign rule where the Jews would be free to worship the one Lord. Back around the time of Joshua there were a lot of ‘rebels’ who wandered around Galilee who preached end times and who called themselves the ‘Messiah’ who ended up being killed by the Romans. All this ‘Son of God’ crap was the product of Paul’s fevered imagination.
so all in all it is a myth
Yep. Total bollocks.
Evolution disproves creationist theory.
No creation? No Adam and Eve. No Adam and Eve? No original sin? No original sin? No sin at all. Therefore Jesus is proven to not be divine.
I witness no evidence Jesus is real in so called Christian's lives
Yep. A vast number of Christians haven't given away nearly enough of their wealth and possessions to be thinking about getting to heaven. Sorry folks, tithes don't count, you gotta give away the lot.
Can you do a show in jamaica,it is about time someone put some sense in my people
Jesus never existed.
The people who wrote the bible, used camel droppings to fuel their cooking fires.. I really think they had smoked some mushrooms..
I remember reading about the Jesus seminar. They decided about 18% of the red print of Jesus' words may have been authentic. This is coming from the most conservative to the most liberal Christians, who participated. If Jesus was god, he certainly should have been able to write about his own experiences.
Good point!