I think the reason why the puppets murder Pidia is an external factor. He lost control because someone stronger than he asserted control over them - Ranni, for example, who knew full well what sort of person Sulevis/Pidia is. Or, more likely, you could think this the result of the Two Fingers - after all, Blaidd and Iji both had Black Knives sent after them. It would be easy for a cosmic force to just control three will-less puppets. I'd also like to point out there's a few reasons missing from the vid that I thought were interesting. For example, the location of Pidia in relation to Sulevis - as it does seem like there is a specific distance the puppets can work, based on how we've seen them act. Then there's the fact that Pidia of all things is in a no-attack zone. Why? The other areas are Volcano Manor, the chapel in Stormveil, Rennala's chamber, and the Round Table. All of these seem to have been done for sake of continuity - so the player doesnt create a paradox/murder an NPC that has future use. So why Pidia? He's just a merchant, who, strangely, doesnt have a Voice Actor listed - of all others, for whom even 'troll roar' have a voice actor listed. Then there's the fact that Pidia is an Albinauric... Who bleeds red but lets disregard that for a moment. We know that Gideon and Seluvis had a major falling out and then Dolores was in the middle of that. Sulevis from his side tries to make Nepheli a puppet. And Gideon? Well, does he not send Ensha to massacre the Albinauric village? This may be his own brand of revenge. Its a really odd thing - Ensha is looking for the medallion, but he just takes the time to kill most Albinaurics and put their village in that kind of state? Not to mention the why - why is the medallion wanted. Because access to Malenia? Gideon may or may not know where she is, as I (think) he tells you he doesnt know. What else does he need the Medallion for? Well, strictly speaking, the Medallion only gets you to the Snowfield - where Philia, Towering Little Sister, waits. And THIS, in my thoughts, is Gideon's target. He isnt going after Malenia, he's going after the source of the Albinaurics.
@@kullervo3289 you may have some good points there. I pointed in another comment my thoughts about the whole Gideon and Seluvis ordeal, since there is another way he dies and ths quest finishes, that is not mentioned in the video. In this way i commented, it makes more sense for Seluvis to be his own man and maybe Pidia is a servant os his. BUT, if what you say would be true, then it falls in the part i commented about Gideon knowing Pidia is the actual Seluvis, with the Seluvis we meet being a puppet and Pidia being a fake name so that the real Seluvis, the albinauric, could hide behing his puppets!
It feels as if there is missing information; we do not know exactly how much control a puppet master has over their puppet; and while we’ve seen part of how puppets are made, I feel that we don’t get all of the info on how the poisons work; Furthermore, with pidia being an albinauric I have to wonder how much the flame of frenzy plays a part
@@theodorixjohnson4336 is the Flame of Frenzy related to Albinaurics in any way?? I thought it was only related to the wandering merchants, not albinaurics. Albinaurics are tied to the forgotten cities, i reckon
I just love the way Seluvis is so despicable and hated by any mention of him and there’s all these NPCs that know him as “that weird gross guy”. And when Ranni tells you to let Iji and Blaidd know she loves them and excludes Seluvis. Just such a cartoonishly nasty man, he and Mohg would definitely make great Discord mods
That is if seluvis was in control. Tho remember ranni herself is a horrible person. She killed godwyn who after miquella was probably the nicest demi god. Its like saying Stalin didint call Hannibal lector good lol. Its not really a compilment to be called good by Stalin
@@draw2death421 Calling literally any of the demigods nice is an extreme stretch. Godwyn was a strong proponent of the Golden Order, which has its numerous problems. Miquella used mind control to accrue vast numbers of followers, who he sent to war along with his twin attack dog, Malenia. The latter in particular was no less ruthless than Ranni. Honestly, ruthlessness is the one trait all the demigods who survived the shattering shared. They all had their disparate goals, and they were willing to do whatever was necessary to achieve them. We know very little about Godwyn, but, based on what we see in-game, if he wasn't similarly ruthless he'd likely be dead by our time anyway.
@@1umbreon4lifeslander. Godwynn was shown to be one of the kinder demigods, choosing to ally with Fortissax instead of destroying him: for a prononent of the Golden Order, that’s abormal. Claiming Miquella uses mind control is your opinion, many go to him because he offers shelter and a new order for those unwelcome by the current Order. The soldiers followed out of faith, not mind control. Malenia too: just as Miquella is devoted to saving his sister from the Rot, Malenia cast aside empyrean ambitions to protect him. Meanwhile, Radahn holds the stars (fate) in stasis, preventing Ranni from her plans, but also Miquella’s (including reviving Godwynn)
I lean towards the "Pidia as puppet master" side personally. For some extra little bits of circumstantial evidence: Pidia recognizes you when you first encounter him (he exclaims "You!" before realizing his error and backing off into his groveling servant facade), his accent/the way he talks sounds (to me) sounds suspiciously similar to Seluvis' own accent/speech pattern, and also Seluvis' over-the-top aggressively condescending arrogance feels like an exaggeration (As if Seluvis might have been mean to Pidia, and Pidia only has that experience as a basis for portraying Seluvis' entire personality, making him rude even when it would be inappropriate)
Some good points here but I have a few counterpoints since personally I don’t buy this theory. Pidia reacts the same way no matter who you’ve interacted with before you meet him. All the Carians have a Welsh accent, including Ranni, Blaidd and Iji, so their speech patterns would be similar. Seluvis is clearly dead before Pidia is attacked by the puppets. This makes sense since Seluvis’ magic is what kept them in check and Pidia is just a caretaker. If Pidia is the real puppet master then why is it that Seluvis dies before him? Shouldn’t Pidia die first and then Seluvis if Pidia is pulling the strings?
It could be he recognizes us as an enemy, we've been battling his beloved puppets around the manor, and he has seen us before, from his balcony, which we can't climb up to from the bonfire. He is surprised we've managed to reach him.
Seluvis looks like this when he dies because his primal glintstone was inhabiting a doll, like many sorcerers do. Pidia may recognize us because he literally watched us run through the manor and he's surprised we survived, but the Japanese makes it clear he doesn't actually recognize you and this is confusion caused by mistranslation. Pidia probably only sells what he does, including the map, because he has lots of opportunity to rummage through the manor and scavenge for goodies. If he assisted Seluvis in the transfer of his primal glintstone, he'd be in position to easily copy or steal the map.
Yeah what Oz said. His spot overlooks a grace we are forced to pass by before we can access him and if the puppets on the ramparts are indeed his then he’d have seen us through their eyes as well.
as a counter to the “personal vendetta” argument against this theory It could be possible that Pidia has always been using selevus as a puppet, and so his slights are pidia’s slights. Additionally, it’s possible that Selevus is really just Pidia’s true personality
This is what I always believed. To add to it, as an albinuric who is destined to lose the use of his legs, Pidia has a very understandable motivation for wanting a new body to experience the world with. Thus Pidia has been Sevulvis for so long the difference between them is completely blurred. They are not different characters, just one very interesting and complex one.
@@launchbase4944 When they say "always been", I believe they are referring to the relative current time span before and during our chapter within the universe. I don't believe they are implying that he was a puppet at birth lol
I think Seluvis is like Sellen. He has transplanted his primal glintstone from puppet to puppet to get eternal life. Sellen mentions that Seluvis helped her escape the Academy before, probably in that way, and asks you to transfer her glintstone to one of Seluvis' puppets once more, in order to escape her prison. Ranni is aware of all that, but doesn't have enough allies at this point, so she tolerates it. Before she leaves, she asks you to tell Blaidd and Iji that she loves them. It is clear that she only considers them as her true friends, not Seluvis nor Pidia. We know she detests the practice, because she uses a doll as a puppet, not a living body Seluvis inactive puppet is either Ranni's work , taking out the trash before leaving by removing Seluvis' primal glintstone, or the work of the assassins that attack her rise after she gets the finger slaying blade. Most likely it was Ranni, since there is no blood around him. Pidia is most likely Seluvis' accomplice, which is why he has some of Seluvis' puppets, but once he is gone, the puppets are no longer under Seluvis' control and turn against him. If Pidia could control them, then why is he dead? Other that Seluvis death, nothing has changed for Pidia.
This was my conclusion after watching this video too, We know so little about puppetry like how do we know if there is or not a limit to how many puppets one can have? Perhaps the guards around Pidia rather then Pidia looking after them, are in fact watching Pidia after being forced to control one of Seluvis's puppets by Seluvis (Dolores the Sleeping Arrow Puppet) Hence why Pidia only has that puppet in his possession.
I mean 'mongrel' is not incorrect. He's an artificial creature created by the Two Fingers by some weird combo of human and wolf...I'm not sure how that happens exactly, and I don't think I want to know. Either way, 'mongrel' is an accurate description of both Blaidd and Maliketh.
One kinda interesting line from Seluvius: "You're proving to be quite the puppeteer. I've not had an apprentice for...a very long time indeed." It's possible he talks about Phidia as the apprentice. Although the the other thing is that Phidia has the map that leads us to the amber starlight, wich is certainly makes him suspicuous in this case.
My favorite piece of circumstantial evidence for Pidia being the puppet master: if you give Seluvis' potion to Nephali, you find her puppet on Pidia's corpse.
@@justwelsh bruh why do you even watch videos about Elden Ring lore in the first place lmfao souls games lore are made especially for us to think really deep
Seluvis seems determined to take Ranni as a Puppet. I guess it would make sense that he gets turned into a Puppet as punishment. Iji is probably the one to do him in. He knows Seluvis is dodgy and he doesn't hesitate to lock Blaidd away when he deems him to be dangerous to Ranni.
If you go to the crater in Limgrave that leads to Nokron after beating Radahn, granted you're doing Ranni's questline, Blaidd leaves a message for you saying he needs to "take care of a traitor" and for you to go on ahead to Nokron.
@@largegoop oh, I’d assumed he was talking about Darriwil and was really confused because he’d dealt with that long ago. The traitor being Seluvis/Pidia makes more sense.
@@largegoop now thar sounds like 1 of two things 1 iji locked up blaidd and used that as an excuse 2 blaidd goes after iji learning that he was going to be locked up
Kind of weird why would he even want Ranni as puppet tho. She is already spirit piloting artificial puppet, so why wont he just create replica of Ranni body and use that to control?
As we have seen with Sellen, puppets don't always have to have another person in control. I'd imagine Seluvis is in a similar situation, since Sellen has previously worked with Seluvis.
Sellen is a particular case, her true body was imprisonned by Jerren and she was able to basically create an avatar of herself even then due to how powerful she was so it's possible even puppeteering wouldn't have been able to truly hold her up (not to mention she just has to find another body to put her stone in and she's back anyway).
@@chowellith Seluvis owns a puppet of Sellen, but has never transformed Sellen herself into a puppet. In the Sellen questline that puppet can be used to restore Sellen, who lost her own body. So that Sellen puppet is just a puppet in the real meaning and not some poor soul transformed into a puppet.
Another thing worth noting, Ranni knew the whole time what Selivus was planning for her, if she knew this then surely she would have known that it was not Selivus but Pidia in control
An interesting thing about this theory is the Voice Actor for these two characters. The credit only mentioned Seluvis' VA being Charles Dale, but Pidia isn't mentioned at all. Pidia is one of the few, if not the only, voiced character in ER that is not listed on the credit. Even minor NPCs like Albus or the ghost dude in Volcano Manor, even generic soldiers grunt are credited properly for the voice, but Pidia is missing What I take from this, is that Pidia actually has the same voice actor as Seluvis. You can give it a listen to compare them, and you'll likely to hear some similarities in their voices
As someone else mentioned here in the comments, maybe pidia doesn’t exist at all and the thing we know as pidia is the sorcerer seluvis, and that body in the preceptor set could be anyone as we can’t see an inch of skin on him
@@user-ns4zm8qe9p there are videos showing what the NPCs look like without their clothes and Seluvis is among them. Definitely not the same physical body as Pidia
I think the idea here is that Pidia, being crippled from his albinauric origin, could use Seluvis as his way to experience life at its fullest. As his 'real body'. An avatar.
@@BornToPeeForcedToDrinkIt Or possibly that Gideon giving the order in the first place was him trying to find and kill Pidia. It never was super clear why Gideon wanted that village wiped out.
I very much like the idea that pidia was slowly corrupted by Seluvis during the war between the Carian family and The Academy. Since it makes sense during the war they would lose a lot of men so in situation like this Seluvis would likely be the one to introduce puppeteering to the royal family and likely pidia was assigned to work with seluvis on turning the enemies into puppet’s and likely became somewhat obsessed over the art of puppeteering.🤔🐱
It's a fun theory but I agree unlikely. Another explanation for Pidia being that way when you meet him is albanarics are treated terribly and it could just be a survival technique to submit to anyone that might want to hurt him. His final words would be inline with this and really sad if true...
This statement is kind of a stretch. “Could just be a survival technique”? It’s lowkey implied that pidia is controlling seluvis and using him to give women the potion, so that he can molest them… and once seluvis dies, pidia does soon after… which isn’t suspicious at all xD
What I just said makes even more sense after seluvis tries to get you to give the potion to ranni, and talks about touching the puppets with his own hands
My headcanon is that before his puppetification Seluvis wasn’t as perverse, generally not being pleasant to be around but not as bad as when we meet him. Instead he was deeply paranoid, very rarely trusting anyone who wasn’t under his direct control. Because of this when he needed someone with sleep arrows for whatever reason instead of just asking Dolores to help out he turned her into a puppet and that caused the split between him and Gideon. Not really backed by anything though.
Seriously interesting theory, and I love how you gave both sides of the argument too. As always, keep up the great content. Hopefully you reach 100k soon!
My take on it had been that the ‘Pidia’ we meet really is just the modern form of the man many know as Seluvis, and that the Seluvis puppet is the front he acts through now, and when met pretends to be this character ‘Pidia’ that he created. This could be as an additional layer of security, and aiding his progressed albinauric state. Seluvis’ outfit is notably covered head to toe, even an elaborate mask and a giant hat forcing physical distance and creating shadow over his face-any puppet could be in all that and you wouldn’t be able to tell who it really was, or if it was the same it was yesterday, or years ago. As for the puppets killing him, I’m guessing that’s just Ranni’s chosen method of execution-tried to turn me into a puppet? I’ll kill your with your puppets. As you said she didn’t seem surprised to hear this about Seluvis, maybe knew tryin is where the real Seluvis was. Possible it wouldn’t even require controlling the puppets, just freeing them from his control and they’d do the rest, and seems in her wheelhouse given that it sounds like it’s magic related to the stars that makes the puppets in the first place.
The only issue with that last part is that Seluvis dies regardless of whether you progress his quest or not. So if it was Ranni taking her revenge, it wouldn’t be justified given the fact that we didn’t give her Seluvis’ potion yet. But overall I love the idea of Seluvis being Pidia, and how he was able to keep the charade up with his chosen attire.
@@karstenpenkacik9505 yes fair and I should have known that given that’s how it happened with me lol. Maybe she just knew his treachery regardless (which she seems to imply) and tossed that out before heading of to kill her two fingers? But I agree it’s an issue.
@@dylanmiller9162 your conclusion is what I came too as well. That seluvis was just a front. Possibly for quite some time. So to me this means that Pidia is the one who wanted revenge on gideon. Seluvis was just the quest giver and may have delivered the puppets to Pidia in our absence. This video was helpful because I always missed the dialogue about ranni knowing about his schemes. So I never understood why he was dying. On my third playthrough and still learning things😅!
During my first playthrough, Seluvis's demise was really well timed with when I showed Gideon the potion. I legit though that Gideon decided to get rid of Seluvis in an immensely fitting and ironic manner.
I haven't started watching the video yet but the title alone made me think, and yeah, Seluvis's 'death' is extremely unusual. No one else leaves behind a physical corpse, and his positioning is just like the inert dolls.... I didn't realize Pidia's death was the cause of this. Fuuuuck, this is an interesting detail.
I was debating about this the first time I encountered this. Is Pidia Seluvis' puppet? Is Seluvis Pidia's puppet. Or are they just working together. Even though it's just a game, I find it incredibly difficult to give the draughts to Nepheli or Ranni. My only conclusion to this debate is that "I think everyone involved needs to die". I'm glad the two of them did. My only regret is that I didn't get to do them in myself.
I'm confused as to why Seluvis thinks Ranni's rope/wooden puppet body would be affected by the draught. If you try to give it to her, you will be made to feel stupid.
@@corycurren3345 She also recognises out loud that it's one of his ploys if you try to give her the potion too. So he's not unknown to her or anything. it's an odd detail.
During Seluvis’s quest, you can choose to give the potion to Gideon. He says he recognizes the potion, and suggests that if you give it to him, the two of you can “get one over on him”. It was my assumption that Gideon had somehow sent someone to dose Seluvis with the potion, which in turn, turned him into a puppet.
A thing that would combine the two theories, and solve at least some inconsistencies, is if Pidia actully is Seluvis, and the Seluvis we meet is just some random dude, having been made into a puppet.
That's what I always thought. He is simple controlling a remote puppet that everyone know as Seluvis but the real Seluvis is Pidia. I mean the armor covers the dude head to toe. I read the armor saying that he was friends with the "all knowing douche bag" Gid but they prob haven't seen each other since they parted way. If they were in person he could prob tell that it wasn't the real Seluvis but no one who didn't know him personally would. We tell him we met Seluvis, told him how he dressed and how he was rockin the "Squidward" vibes so Gid prob thinks that's him since everything we describe is what he knows. Would a puppet master not take pleasure in putting on a meek sniveling persona while manipulating everyone by controlling everything (or so he thinks) as Seluvis? Sounds like a puppet master's wet dream. For One Piece fans, think the Big Mom Commander Cracker. Dude spends so much time as his alter ego Cracker armor that not even the world goverment knows what the real cracker looks like or that he is a real coward that hates pain, the complete opposite of what his alter ago cracker armor puppet is known for.
@@noamias4897 Sellius only writes the introductory letter to Sellen without ever meeting her. So it could keep true to back when he could still walk before he lost the use of his legs.
Love the way you can connect all the dots and portray it in a understandable way. Btw I would like to see a video about Varré, I believe that the war surgeon gown has some interesting lore. It reads "of the surgeons that were abducted by the Lord of Blood none were able to tame the accursed blood. None but Varré that is; though he was an exception" I don't know of any other item that says something about Varré (except his weapon)
12:45 I still think Pidia is the master mind. It is its own kind of horror to realize someone who you thought you knew is something totally different. It doesn't even need to be a friend you miss understood, just someone you had a strong opinion about. The worst part isn't just the realization that someone you thought you knew is something else than you thought, the terror is in realization that your perception of reality around you is actually very fragile. If Seluvis being a person was a grounding fact within you perception of reality and that wasn't true, what else could you be wrong about? Though, this is all just my thoughts on the narrative of the circumstances, in no way proving the argument one way or the other. Still like the video though, just like every other ER video from ST before (:
Biggest issue is that Pidia says he "loves the puppets" He acts as though he detests them, until his death when we hear the truth. I feel this factors in
Two more things. When you meet Seluvis in Ranni's Rise, listen to how he says "I reside... in another tower nearby". The delivery of the line seems very purposeful because it's Pidia being careful how he tells you where 'he' actually is. Second is in the creepy underground lab, that one message say "Seluvis' Puppet, do not touch" which can be interpreted two ways. 1) The puppet here belongs to Seluvis, do not touch OR 2) This is where the puppet of Seluvis normally is, but it's not there at the moment because he's in the tower being puppeted actively by Pidia. To me, there's is WAY too much in favor of Seluvis being Pidia's puppet.
One thing in favour of pidia being the puppet master is a wordplay. In Seluvis basement you can find a spirit of Seluvis which says ”Seluvis puppet do not touch”. It does not say Seluvis’S Puppet, implying that this is where pidia kept Seluvis puppet when he was not using him.
@@peng0_266 No, it can't. Names that end with an S get an apostrophe at the end to dictate ownership. The puppet BELONGS to Seluvis. It is Seluvis' puppet. Not a puppet of him.
Being a puppet is like enslaving a soul, stopping its rebirth through the erdtree, ranni just separated her soul from her body, I don't think she had any control over them, in fact holds some disdain for them
@@fatalmistakes7773 disagree, as your name indicates you’ve made a fatal mistake. Ranni is actually just melina, when they rejoin it creates a true body. While separate they both work to the same end, but they gain followers using differing methods. But do not be fooled, the goal remains the same. Ranni and melina are the puppet masters. They create conflict to gain power. Using puppets and living alike as simple pawns.
When you open the way to nokron you can find a message from blaidd saying he'll catch up later as he is dealing with a traitor. I always thought he went to kill pidia and was later captured inthe gaol
@@rhynlock11 lol you guys don’t get it. The person in control of the puppets wasn’t a single person. Some of the puppets were controlled by Ranni, some of the puppets were controlled by Melina. Ranni and Melina are two halves of one entity. The reason they are both “souls without body” is because they regain their body when they rejoin. As separate entities they work towards the same goals using differing methods and using tarnished and others alike as pawns to the cause. Of the two personalities melina is the dominant personality or soul. Meaning she had to ensure Ranni wouldn’t gain enough power to dominate her when they rejoined. Also it’s questionable if Ranni is even aware she is half of Melina, but Melina is aware of Ranni. Melina can’t take her true form until DLC. It’ll be cool if we can influence wether Ranni or Melina ends up as the personality in control.
You took the mantle of JFS’s as my favorite approach to lore in the souls game. Love the videos man I can’t wait for a year to go by and have the whole catalog of the game. Keep going I’ve been here since your interview with SinClairlore
I would fully believe that Pidia is the puppet master, were it not for that one piece of damning evidence that Seluvis seems far too much of an individual to be a puppet Consider when Nepheli or Dung Eater are given the potion, it seems like their minds fade away, becoming these thoughtless, inert slaves, as well as when we meet Finger Maiden Therolina and all she can do is bow and even then I'm not sure if that's her doing it on her own or Seluvis is somehow able to see through her eyes and act accordingly. Perhaps Seluvis is a special sort of puppet, something much more sophisticated than the others but I see no evidence to support that
I also find it hard not to treat Seluvis as his own person, or at least as being a previously fully separate individual from Pidia. A preceptor (the set name that Seluvis wears) is defined as a teacher or instructor. Seluvis also gives us a letter of introduction to Sellen heavily implying that Seluvis taught at the Academy at a time before Sellen was expelled. This means either, before joining Ranni Seluvis was a skilled sorcerer at Raya Lucaria who's talents were noticed by Ranni, or Pida is a playing the long game for the Carian Royals by having a puppet within the Carian's closest enemy, the Academy of Raya Lucaria via Seluvis.
Well, to play devil's advocate, we do see Pidia controlling a small army of puppets up on the walkways. It's possible that Pidia has exceptional control over puppets. Perhaps even an ability to control their speech and affect? We don't see any direct evidence of this of course but it could be inferred. I think the bigger problem is that Seluvis would have needed to be a puppet when he was at Round Table Hold. If Dolores was the cause of the Ofnir/Seluvis split, then that should mean that Dolores was important to him. But Pidia has her spirit. Why would Seluvis give something so important to anybody? For this scenario to come close to making sense, it would have to have been Pidia who had a thing for Dolores and he was controlling Seluvis to act as his agent in a sort of Cyrano style love triangle. But the obvious problem is that Pidia is not Tarnished. He can't have been at the Round Table hold, so far as we know. This has a domino effect on all of the other Pidia: Puppet Master arguments as that timeline makes no sense.
@@rainbowkrampus True, Pidia’s ability to control puppets is very apparent, or at least the evidence strongly suggests as much. Perhaps he is apprenticed to Seluvis? I’d believe that Pidia has learned puppeteering from Seluvis, maybe even that the Cuckoo soldiers are puppets that he made himself following the attack on the manor
@@rainbowkrampus I think it should be definitely regarded in the puppet theory, that Seluvis was at one point his own man. Both in the Academy as well as in the roundtablehold, he must have been his own person. Furthermore, I would also state that even in his service to Ranni he had to be himself. This of course creates the question, when was he turned into a puppet? Did Pidia then simply start to act as Seluvis would once he made him into a puppet? Was this the reason why Ranni wouldn’t trust you with the potion because she knew Seluvis was already made into a puppet? An interesting detail I found is that Seluvis didn’t had any apprentices in a long time, maybe that was Pidia talking from his experience and his last apprentice was Seluvis himself?
There's also the issues of his illusory image you speak with when first joining Ranni. This to me, implies his spiritual existence being his own in order to present himself rather than a hallowed out essence of a puppet.
It depends on if someone can customize what their projected form looks like though. It might even be more like a magical hologram rather than a look at their soul.
When I made my way to Pidia after discovering an unresponsive Seluvis, he was begging for his life. Not yet dead despite Seluvis' inanimate state. After having found him murdered by the puppets, my first thought was that the absence of Seluvis' will allowed the latent "predilections" of those "ambient souls" to manifest.
Its exactly what happened. The theory that Pidia is the puppet master is 100% wrong. Seluvis is an estsblished character that interacted with many others(Gideon, Dolores, Sellen). How would he get turned in a puppet by a crippled Albinauric. Being a teacher of magical arts i strongly doubt Pidia would have been able to make him drink the puppet potion unknowingly.
@@richardrussel4567 he gets fed one of his potion by Ranni when she leaves. She's not gonna let a dangerous deviant like Seluvis go free once she's gone. And what more ironically fitting way to do this with his own puppet potion. The 2nd trigger for Seluvis' death is when you give her Seluvis' Amber Draught, wich makes it more obvious that she took revenge after he tried to turn her into his personal puppet. Then after Seluvis dies, Pidia gets killed by the active puppets inside the Manor that went berserk since their creator lost the willpower to control them.
This got way longer than I intended. Here's my theory: Ranni is the puppet master. She has the most intimate understanding of how puppets work, because she is one. And she wasn't created by someone else, she made herself into a puppet. So she knows the whole process, and probably much more advanced, since hers involved a soul transfer out of the original body. The Black Knife Assassins, atleast now, are puppets. Some item states that they are all female. Now, I don't know about Alecto or Tiche, but the other Black Knives have no face. They are just empty suits of armor. They are also immune to all status effects. Except cold, according to the wiki. This still makes sense as cold is Ranni's specialty. It's a failsafe, she can still destroy them should she lose control of them. Consider the Three Sisters rises. Renna is Ranni. Ranni is Ranni. And I conclude that Seluvis is also Ranni. This is why she knows exactly what he's up to, it is her testing your loyalties. He's probably been her puppet since before Dolores came in between Gideon and Seluvis. Perhaps this is why Dolores was turned to a puppet. Ranni was tying up loose ends. Nepheli Loux is another loose end, she is the daughter of Horah Loux, and as such, is a threat. Especially if she's working for Gideon. Seluvis's hidden chamber is outside of Ranni's Rise, not Seluvis's Rise. Why would he put a note incriminating himself in his own chamber, claiming the puppets were his? Why would he need that? He doesn't. It's there because he's a scape goat. Ranni is a mastermind when it comes to planning. As evidenced by the success of the Night of Black Knives. When you first meet her as Renna, if you say no to her, she will mock you. But if you continue to say no, she compliments you as wise, for not being too quick to trust others. You lie to her, but she's not offended, she's impressed. Then she gives you a bell which allows you to summon spirits, and puppets. When she leaves through Renna's rise to kill the 2 Fingers with the Fingerslayer Blade, she has to tie up her loose ends. She sends Black knives to kill Blaidd and Iji. But they knew the plan. Without her presence Seluvis is just a husk. And she has Pidia's puppets kill him for stealing from the hidden chamber. She keeps you close, to kill the Baleful Shadow, and to grant her access to the Elden Ring should you defeat Marika. She had it all planned for a long time. She just needed the stars to align, figuratively and literally. Also in the opening, Godwyn's death looks more like a ritual than an assassination or battle. It would not be so easy to take down the golden child who defeated Fortisax. Yet there is nothing describing a struggle between him and the Black Knives. Ranni likely convinced Godwyn to sacrifice himself. How else would she be able to time it so they died at the same time? Ranni and Marika weren't the only demi-gods who wanted to go against the fates of the Greater Will.
Very interesting. This actually does make quite a bit of sense and could be possible. I don't think it's the most likely answer but a great theory nonetheless
Also, why are the 3 rises called The Three 'Sisters' (female) if one of them is Seluvis (a male)? Like you say....is it just Ranni pulling the strings of Seluvis and testing you? I need to go back through Ranni's dialogue and her references to Seluvis but I agree, there is more to it! There is no other feasible explanation why Seluvis is a puppet and isnt held by Pidia when he dies. Worth noting that Renna is also 'blue' like the other puppets..and her limbs are literally held together by what looks like string, so an actual physical puppet. Ranni - Puppet Master Renna - Rannis host Puppet Seluvis - Rannis 'test' Puppet
What if Seluvis was Pidia's puppet for much longer than we thought? The albernauric uses his puppet to live out his fantasys and the reason Gideon had a fallout with him was because he was a literal different person wearing his friend as a mask.
You didn't mention the albinauric bloodclot... I am disappointed and betrayed without compare... Amazing vid as always mate! Cant wait fo the next one.
@@joaofaria7404 an inside joke of the channel's. Smoughtown had, up until today, mentioned the Albinauric Bloodclot in all of his Lore videos in one way or another. This led him to ironically call it "the best Lore item in-game" or something to that effect.
One point I think should be brought up is the purpose of Pidia in a meta-textual sense. When the writers of the NPCs and their questlines wrote Pidia, what role did they envision him to have? I think this question is important precisely because Pidia seems like such a ‘nothing’ character. He doesn’t have some interesting story or arc and he doesn’t serve as an important plot-device in somebody else’s questline. Despite this he’s very obviously hidden from the player; I doubt all that many people ran into him on a first play through, especially in comparison to most other NPCs. So this begs the question, why is Pidia even in the game? Why did FromSoftware even bother to include him? I feel like there are three main possibilities. 1. He serves as the resident Caria Manor Merchant (in place of, say, a wandering merchant). I won’t deny the possibility of this, but I find it hard to see how this function couldn’t have been served by Seluvis or, as I alluded to earlier, a wandering merchant. 2. He’s in the game to provide extra texture and context for the Caria Manor (an extremely important location both lore-wise and for major NPC questlines) 3. He’s hiding a big secret, and the purpose of his character is to provide intrigue and to hide a surprising truth for players. I solidly believe that number three makes the most sense, because it’s the most interesting possibility and because virtually all of Elden Ring’s NPCs are more than they first seem when you meet them. Like seriously, almost everybody in this game has some secret identity or secret alliance or is involved in some bigger plan or conspiracy. EVEN THE NAMELESS MERCHANT CHARACTERS HIDE A CATASTROPHIC PAST! It just makes sense to me from a meta perspective that the writers put Pidia in the game as the true, secret identity of Seluvis. But of course maybe the real point of Pidia was to create the open-ended question of whether or not that is the case. Keep us guessing.
In another playthrough I killed him "too soon" because of his attitude, and blaidd in Sofria became agressive. I used a celestial dew, continued a bit the quest, then killed him again lmfao Well when you kill him he fade away, strange, and after the first hit he has some sort of barrier, strange for a puppet
I’ve always seen his puppet pose at his death as a sort of parallel to other characters in this world that have become so obsessed with their perceived idea of ultimate strength that they transform into something less than not more than. I felt that he made himself into a puppet at some point thinking it would make him more powerful the way the primeval sorcerers replaced their heads and turned themselves into vegetables, or Sellen turning herself into a gravemass, or Godrick incessantly grafting limbs onto himself, or the soldiers trying to turn themselves into dragons, or Rykard letting the serpent eat him. There seems to be a theme in this game of consuming obsession. I’m not sure there’s any more evidence for my theory than that though lol
I feel the elephant question that has not been awnersed is what happens to Seluvis if you kill Pidia early in the game? Unless they are unkillable/respawning npcs that is a great way to test how they are connected.
Pidia is stuck in a no weapon allowed zone like the Roundtable meaning the devs designed for pidia to not be killable So even if we found a way to kill him (cheats, ranged attacks, ect...) there would be no way the programmers connected it to Seluvis What if i find more weird is why the devs decided to take that choice instead of giving pidia an invulnerable shield like other npc in the game No weapons allowed zones are, in canon, just our character refusing to choose violence (since we can fight Esha in the Roundtable)
@@taste5728 no one else is in Roundtable when you fight Ensha so I think he’s shifting us into another pocket dimension or something rather than ignoring the rules. Dung Eater also refrains from killing you and it’s not because he’s invading, he’s fine with invading to kill you later
I’ve never considered that Seluvis might be a puppet himself and I don’t read fan theories on Reddit but as soon as I saw the thumbnail for this video, several things clicked into place and I felt really dumb for not realizing the implications sooner. It’s impossible to know how much control Pidia has over his puppets, but if he were able to speak through them, then it’s totally viable theory. Super cool!
I agree - the idea of Ranni turning Seluvis into a puppet out of spite seems most logical to me. I'd say Pidia was his old apprentice, clearly more than he lets on but not controlling Seluvis himself.
While I personally believe Seluvis was his own person, there is a potential connection with Pidia and the chosen puppets if we consider that he's an albenaric, and it was Gideon who wiped out the albenaric village in his search for the haligtree medallion. So there is the potential motivation for revenge.
The more I think about it, the more anyway seems possible. Example: Pidia worked for Seluvis and puppets so long he eventually fell in love with them (like Seluvis insists will happen with you as you buy puppets which implies, he AKA Pidia, eventually became obsessed with them after having to take care of them for so long. Speaking from experience). He learned how Seluvis made his potions, made his own, and turned Seluvis into his own personal puppet. When he finds Gideon has killed his homies, he retaliates by taking away his daughter and using her (maybe in a failed assassination attempt). Gideon is the all knowing so we either tell him about the potion or he just finds out from his intel network what happened to one of his former assets and that Seluvis needs to be taken out. Gideon has a history with Seluvis so he probably realizes that Seluvis has ironically become a puppet himself. It depends on how the potions work but Seluvis's OG puppets are the ones He created from the Cuckoo soldiers when the Carians went to war with the school. (as all of Ranni's vessels are extremely loyal). So Pidia fell in love with Seluvis's puppets and are likely his sentimental favorites (the line before he dies says how he loved them). Gideon can't harm Pidia due to the churches "Serenity" . I imagine it's a real form of magic that prevents violent thoughts/intentions being translated to actual violence(When we get attacked by Ensha I'm pretty sure we get ported to the actual round table in the capital as everything is darker and shit, not the usual well let place with people in it). I mean the Dung Eater was incapable of torcher and cursing us despite his very vocalness to wanting to do that....a lot. So Gideon makes his own potion and uses it on Seluvis that cancels out Pedia's control and Seluvis's Cuckoo puppets used to protect the manor kill the real threat to Gideon. Being puppets could make them immune to the churches "serenity" magic and thus able to harm Pidia. I mean we can kill anyone in the damn game, there is no reason they would protect this NPC like they do the spirit healer girl.
On the theory concerning Pidia being Seluvis, I have some opinions to share. I feel that there are far too many contradictory pieces of evidence when it comes to Pidia being Seluvis, there are alibies, and of course the prominence of Seluvis's individuality. Ranni treated Seluvis as a loyal servant, Gideon recognized him as a puppeteer and former colleague, and others who have worked intimately with Seluvis had not noticed any discrepancies in his personality, which would have at some point become apparent to any one of them. Especially with Pidia being as unstable as he is, there are bound to be slip ups. What I propose is that Seluvis and Pidia may have had a Frankenstein / Igor relationship, with Pidia playing the part of "mortician" in a sense, preparing the bodies for use. I believe this may be why you are not immediately given the puppets after administering Seluvis's draught. Something more needs to be done for them to be fully functioning puppets capable of heeding commands and summons. This would also explain why Pidia has the Napheli ashes in his possession upon his death. He was "preparing" her to to be utilized as a puppet. This is corroborated by the fact that Pidia himself says he is "charged" with maintaining the dolls. Clearly Seluvis had ordered Pidia to maintain their forms, perhaps Pidia had some sort of expertise in this matter that rendered him useful to Seluvis. And knowing Seluvis's modus operandi, he is clearly the dominating figure between the two, having abused / scared Pidia witless into doing his bidding. Another thing to note: only a few of the puppets surrounding Pidia had physically assaulted him, all of them being Cuckoo Knights. This could suggest that Seluvis had them planted there specifically to guard Pidia and eliminate him should anything compromise Seluvis's scheme. This would allow Seluvis to tie up loose ends, and ensure that there was no trail to follow in the event that he desired to hide himself. Seluvis was also notably clever, having aided Sellen when she was expelled from the academy, creating a puppet for her and teaching her how to transfer her own consciousness from one body to another, effectively allowing her to evade those hunting her as she pursued her studies. A man such as Seluvis would surely have a failsafe of his own, and would never put his host body in jeopardy in the event that something should befall him. He knew that he had potential enemies everywhere, even Blaidd teased the idea of killing him and was tasked by the Two Fingers to relentlessly pursue anyone who threatens Ranni's life. This is why the Seluvis that is "killed" by Ranni, is merely a puppet. Where his host body actually resides is unknown, and will likely stay that way. Seluvis, like Sellen, will continue to pursue his studies in secret far from Ranni's gaze now that she is wise to his treachery. One other thing to note concerning Ranni is that while she is immensely powerful, she does bear the characteristics of a young girl / princess. She can be quite proud and naïve at times, which we can see during your interaction with her doll and her disbelief that you saw through her guise. It is also evident in her deep familial relationship / trust with her hirelings, which is what I believe allows Seluvis to get away with much of his scheming and general nefariousness for so long. So to sum it up, I personally feel this is the most likely of scenarios. There are far too many holes in the Pidia = Seluvis theory, some that are even lore-bending. But that is simply my take, at the end of the day this is all left to our interpretation, but hopefully my perspective may help shed some light on the totally convoluted rabbit hole that is Seluvis's questline. Lol.
A part of me believes Selivus is like Sellen after we revive her. A Mage core in a puppet body. And when Ranni kills him she basically just destroys his core. In a sense snapping his strings.
My personal theory is that Seluvis is the original personality, but that he resides in the body we know as Pidia. My main path there was the first meeting with Pidia where he accidentally uses Seluvis' speech patterns. So, Seluvis disguised himself as a servant or soul transferred, because he wanted to hide from his enemies. And then ran his old identity as a puppet for official business. We see from both Sellen's and Ranni's quest that there is a tradition of sorcery that considers your own body to be utterly disposable.
I understood it as pidia had those puppets because he was the one doing the labor or completing the process. Selvus seems like while he is very knowledgeable about puppets doing the actual process is beneath him. He’s more into the finding them and then controlling them at the end. I also read Pidias line as “I’m the one who made y’all and took care of ya! Don’t turn on me”
One hiccup in this theory that stands out to me is that if Seluvis is actually Pidia's puppet, why doesn't Seluvis already have the location information for the amber shard, if Pidia has the map? It's not as if we'd be more suspicious if Seluvis just told us where to find it. I suppose it could be to thoroughly establish them as individuals, but it seems odd to me. I had always assumed Seluvis in puppet-pose was Ranni's doing as a tit-for-tat for his attempt at puppeting her.
Because if Seluvis was a real boy, he could just go get the amber himself. If Seluvis is actually a legless albinauric who can't walk, he can't go get the amber. So if Puppeteer A asks you to find something puppet related, you will naturally ask the only other Puppeteer you know, further reinforcing the idea that they're not the same person, and maintaining his cover.
this has to be my favourite side quests in all of fromsoft games. cant imagine actually trying it without using a guide. they really went above and beyond with the story.
I am certain Selevus was a real person once, his relationship with Dolores and Gideon were clearly that of being possesed of his own agency and free will. Whether Pidia was his pupil or not, by the end I think it's clear that Pidia added Selevus and his puppets to his own collection. When this happened ? I have no idea - but likely after his allegiance to Ranni... Selevus' desire as a preceptor to serve Ranni would have aligned with his own desires to continue his puppetry arts, and Ranni would have been to canny to be duped by a puppet. But at some point, she was away and absorbed with her own plans. I think its also clear that her "doll" body was made possible by Selevus. Did Ranni expect betrayal from him. I think so. I think this gap is where Pidia had the notion to take his master as a puppet and and through him, an even bigger prize. A demi-god; Ranni. Pidia's own death may have been a safe-guard by Selevus. The deaths of both of them need not be as simultaneous, as we have been lead to believe. Pidia being an albinauric, it would have appealed to him to get revenge on people such as Selevus for looking down on his kind as mearly "created life" and to create the puppets must have been amazing to him. But in time I can also surmise that Selevus' haughty attitude and snobbery is what lead to his downfall. At the hands of his former pupil no less. Quite a delicious notion. So I think there is no clear answer - except - the "when" and "if" of Selevus becoming a puppet himself.
Overall I agree with your alternate theory! That's kinda the conclusion that I came to as well. However, there is one extra detail that I believe that makes Pidia fit into the story better. I think of him as sort of a scavenger and thief. Hes been stealing items, like the map and puppets from Seluvis, and thats why we find them in his possession.
Two tests I would like to have seen in the video: You, the player, kill Seluvis or Pidia and then check on the other. If killing Pidia causes Seluvis to drop into puppet mode we know Pidia was puppet master. If killing Seluvis causes Pidia's puppets to kill him we know Seluvis is puppet master. If neither happens from killing one of them well I guess that's inconclusive.
Regarding Seluvis's 'puppet death pose,' I like to believe it's more probable that he had his own primal glintstone inside the body we know him as. Like form of self-puppetry what Sellen practices. Given they also have some history, I don't think this to be far fetched. Also to note, puppets do not tend to speak, unless they are self-puppeteered like Ranni. Meaning the body/puppet has to house a soul in order to speak. Otherwise, Seluvis might've had a few words with us through Finger Maiden Therolina at Radahn Festival square instead of just bowing to us.
Here’s one piece of evidence that makes it so bleedingly obvious they’re supposed to be the same person, I’m surprised it’s rarely brought up: they have the exact same voice actor. Why would they go out of their way to have the same person voice act two characters with similar backgrounds, who are part of the same questline, but aren’t related to each other in a significant way?
@@scotthall7307 Martyn Ellis didn't voice act Pidia. According to the credits and IMDB, Martyn VA'd Albus. th-cam.com/users/clipUgkxCBDBTengobjByWwlcv5KOpb11MgO6xIH Proof is up there. What I will acknowledge is that the credits don't actually list Pidia as having a voice actor... which is odd, I admit. I had a source tell me it's because Pida and Seluvis have the same voice actor. They certainly sound the same, but I acknowledge now that the game doesn't actually confirm my hunch.
@@marinbolder3730 None, besides the fact that the game conveniently does not list Pidia as having a voice actor, and that his voice and accent are extremely similar to Seluvis's.
I'm fairly certain Seluvis used to be a Preceptor, party to Gideon Ofnir's Roundtable Hold, and formerly mutual friends with Dolores the Sleeping Arrow. However, by the time we meet him, I am fairly sure Pidia has overtaken Seluvis' will. Aside from sharing a voice actor, the sign in Seluvis' basement reads "Seluvis puppet, do not touch." No possessive apostrophe. As in, that is where Pidia stores the Seluvis puppet when not in use. That's how I took it, at least, after seeing his deactivated pose, and reading "Seluvis Puppet" in the merchant menu that comes up when you click on him. In addition, the Albinauric Tower found in the Consecrated Snowfield holds the Graven Mass talisman, accessible only through Haligtree Medallions (which only albinaurics have). The path of primal glintstone is as old as the astrologers, who also lived on the Mountaintops of the Giants. The astrologers used the paths of the stars to determine fate, and the potions Seluvis makes rely on starlight shards to do their vile work. Seluvis was a Preceptor. Preceptors came about after Radagon married Rennala, and after Radahn arrested the fate of the stars; as such, astrology could no longer guide the Carian royal family. Astrologers who lived in the mountaintops considered the giants neighbors and were likely banished from the Lands Between even before the rest of the Tarnished, after Radagon took the Fire Giants out. Preceptors were Radagon's secret service- that in and of itself makes it very strange to see one defying the Greater Will and Golden Order so brazenly, especially when Preceptor Miriam stands guard over Ranni's corpse (which bears half of the Cursemark of Death, necessary to the plans of Those Who Live in Death, greatly opposed by the Golden Order). While there is a chance that Seluvis was an astrologer before he was a preceptor, I find it more likely that Pidia was an albinauric astrologer who leveraged his preexisting knowledge of the stars to enslave his former master Seluvis with the Carian family's Nox-derived arts of puppetry. However, I am fairly certain the apprentice Seluvis mentioned is Sellen, who sought to deepen her knowledge of primal glintstone after Azur and Lusat's banishment. Seluvis himself would not have a reason to know of primal glintstone, but Pidia may, so it could be possible that not even Sellen met the real Seluvis.
Given that most of the Abinaurics in the game are found in Liurnia I don't think they were around in the time of astrologers, My personal theory is that they are a creation of the Carians in their old struggle against the academy before Rennala enchanted the sorcerers.
It could be that we never meet Seluvis and instead just a puppet being controlled by Seluvis, as if you try to kill him he just vanishes and makes some vague threats; unlike other NPCs, he can be brought back with celestial dew after you "kill" him.
An interesting thing to note is that you can give Seluvis’ potion to Gideon and you’ll then find Seluvis in the puppet pose. This strengthens the theory that Ranni turned Seluvis into a puppet after you try to administer her the potion and that he was not already a puppet.
When i first played the game, i never completed seluvis' quest and thus I didn't know ranni was aware. So from my perspective, after talking with gideon about seluvis' potion where he warns u not to give the potion, deciding to give it to nepheli, and then later finding seluvis as a puppet after discovering his room, it seemed like Gideons work. As revenge or punishment for meddling with nepheli, despite gideon effectively disowning nepheli.
Shit, I just posted above my thought's and this changed my god damn mind 2 min later lol (as I also thought, Gid may have turned Seluvis into a puppet). If you turn Nepheli, I have no doubt a dude known as "the all knowing" would find out and seek revenge (or just consider Seluvis a threat to him who can't exist). If you don't turn Nepheli, he still finds out as you give him the potion (to likely duplicate and use on Seluvis in return) and takes him out before he messes with his desire to be Elden Lord. I think Gideon is far more cruel and creepy to do with the "taste of your own medicine" treatment. Ronni more or less thinks (and isn't entirely wrong) that everyone is beneath her. She'd just have her puppy man or wise giant rip him to shreds and never think about it again. Gideon always takes out a new threat to his Crown by turning him into a puppet. This in turn releases Selvis's control of his puppets, and the weirdo Pidia has been taking care of and likely doing horrible humiliating things with (which would suggest the people are conscious but simply unable to control themselves) which results in them killing him the second they can control their own bodies. Pedia is a housekeeper so it would make sense that he would have a map to the Amber too. The description mentions how it's kinda messed up so Selvis could have easily made a copy and threw the old damaged one away (and house keeping found it)
There is also a message at the edge of the crater to Norton left by Blaidd. It mentions a traitor taken care of, I think blaidd did it and put him in the position of puppet as a mockery
I didn't know Pidia existed until a couple days ago. I completely missed it because I didn't help Seluvis so by the time I found him he just killed himself (or just killed by puppets?) as I jumped down. This game is so full of stuff you can miss its really great. I really love that.
The Radagon seal is easily explained if you look at the Mask of Confidence (found in the inverted Carian Study Hall): The Preceptors (mages serving the Carian royal family) wear these masks on Radagon's orders.
It gives a new perspective on the 'Selivus' puppet. Do not touch.' message in his puppet room. Before the video I always thought it odd there was no puppet in place for the message to refer to but, going with the theory, he is the puppet.
I always thought Ranni murders Seluvis then does a little trolling by posing his corpse like a puppet but holy shit literally giving him a taste of his own medicine is genuinely amazing
I believe, given the timeline when Seluvis dies , if he is a puppet then the puppeteer would be the preceptor we fight in the Carina Study Hall. This makes me question why Ranni would want Seluvis in her service in the first place…I see Seluvis being a puppet planted to spy on Ranni by an outside group.
Seluvis "dies" when you give Ranni the Fingerslayer Blade or the Amber Draught. Nothing to do with the Study Hall, except for the fact that if you gave the Fingerslayer Blade, Ranni gives you the Inverted Statue. But if you gave the Draught, there literally is no connection at all. Though it is interesting that the Preceptor seems to be summoning puppets as well...
I believe that Pidia is much like us. Someone who finds out about Seluvis' deeds but Is also compelled to assist him and get his own puppets out of it.
Personally, i lean towards the idea that seluvus was his own man, and its a piece of evidence that isnt often brought up: blaidd. “Blaidd’s message left at Mistwood Ruins (before the player enters Nokron) There’s a traitor taken care of. Onwards to Nokron, then. Go on, I’ll catch up” Who is the traitor that has been taken care of? At this point in ranni’s questline, dariwill has long been dead, and you could have heared seluvus’ plan to make ranni a puppet. When you find the message, you can go and find seluvus in his final state, which leads me to believe that either blaidd figured out, or was told by ranni, of seluvus’ intentions to betray her and make her a puppet, and blaidd as her servant and shadowbound, took him out, probably giving him a taste of his own medicine rather than outright killing him. Thats when the puppets would have rebelled against pidas, as seluvu who was their original and true master, was now gone. His access of the maps could be from interest in puppetry himself, or somethings to trade and barter with seluvus for more puppets (as selevus only trades in star fragments for puppets, a map to them might also suffice), or maybe he has the locations from having served the carian royal family, which is entrenched in glinstone sorcery and astrology.
Seluvis was never blue and is only now in the "puppet position". At this point he's probably Ranni's puppet, but I don't think he was a puppet before that.
I love this theory because it is so in line with fromsofts formula for storytelling. I'm on new game plus and I did a great deal of exploring and watched a ton of youtube about quests etc during my first play through, and I cant believe I missed this awesomeness. This game keeps impressing me
Another interesting point (I don't know if somebody wrote about it here) is that you can't use weapon around Pidia, which makes it impossible to check the effect of his death on Seluvis. Most of important characters have this "safe aura". Is it a coincidence? Everything is possible. Cool video and theories, never think about this before.
I lean more towards Ranni being the one who kills Selivus, mostly because he will end up dead even if you progress through Ranni's quest without speaking to Selivus.
Seluvis's personal history could be Pidias personal history as he lives through his puppets. He may have known Neph and the othet guy just from being in the Puppet for so long. Great theory!
I've had a playthrough where Pidia died before I even met Seluvis. It was before I started rannis quest. Seluvis remained alive until I the betrayal. I'm not sure how he could be controlled as a puppet by Pidia if this is able to happen.
Thank you. This makes a lot more sense than Pidia controlling Seluvis. I just wish there was a way I could work with Ranni to double cross Seluvis. It also maes sense why Ofnir would dispose of Seluvis' potion if you mention it to him.
My take is Seluvis and Pidia worked together. Pidia being the underling. Having a kill switch built into them so Pidia won't outlive him(I am assuming Seluvis believes Pidia can or is betraying him) is definitely something Seluvis would do. We know puppets are not always used as pliant servants. Sellen shows it is possible to have puppet bodies as one's own. So my conclusion is Seluvis had chosen this path as well and had booby trapped his puppets to turn on Pidia should he(Seluvis) become non-functional. Probably on the assumption that Pidia has/would sell him out. So why let the traitor outlive him?
Do you think iji was a puppet to Ranni? After his death, he sits there lifeless like a puppet in the same pose as the other puppets. Not to mention that he's continously burning instead of vanishing like the other trolls and enemies.
Didn't know about Pidia til about a week ago. Never got more than one step in the Selivus questline. Only reason I found him was because I was just trying to get as many spells and incantations as I could get, and he was one of the people I had to find. Shit is just like in Caelid, with the Beastial Sanctum and its western cliffs. Never knew anything was down there until a week ago, looking for all trinkets and things of the like. And the one also in Caelid, I think by the minor Erdtree in easternmost Caelid, for the painting reward. That damn blue golem was no joke. Point is, even after playing it for a year, there was still so much for me to do and find. Thats pretty insane.
Let me know your theories below!
Random but ive been wondering if theres a link between guidiance of grace and humanities, they both look very similar
I think the reason why the puppets murder Pidia is an external factor. He lost control because someone stronger than he asserted control over them - Ranni, for example, who knew full well what sort of person Sulevis/Pidia is. Or, more likely, you could think this the result of the Two Fingers - after all, Blaidd and Iji both had Black Knives sent after them. It would be easy for a cosmic force to just control three will-less puppets. I'd also like to point out there's a few reasons missing from the vid that I thought were interesting. For example, the location of Pidia in relation to Sulevis - as it does seem like there is a specific distance the puppets can work, based on how we've seen them act. Then there's the fact that Pidia of all things is in a no-attack zone. Why? The other areas are Volcano Manor, the chapel in Stormveil, Rennala's chamber, and the Round Table. All of these seem to have been done for sake of continuity - so the player doesnt create a paradox/murder an NPC that has future use. So why Pidia? He's just a merchant, who, strangely, doesnt have a Voice Actor listed - of all others, for whom even 'troll roar' have a voice actor listed. Then there's the fact that Pidia is an Albinauric... Who bleeds red but lets disregard that for a moment. We know that Gideon and Seluvis had a major falling out and then Dolores was in the middle of that. Sulevis from his side tries to make Nepheli a puppet. And Gideon? Well, does he not send Ensha to massacre the Albinauric village? This may be his own brand of revenge. Its a really odd thing - Ensha is looking for the medallion, but he just takes the time to kill most Albinaurics and put their village in that kind of state? Not to mention the why - why is the medallion wanted. Because access to Malenia? Gideon may or may not know where she is, as I (think) he tells you he doesnt know. What else does he need the Medallion for? Well, strictly speaking, the Medallion only gets you to the Snowfield - where Philia, Towering Little Sister, waits. And THIS, in my thoughts, is Gideon's target. He isnt going after Malenia, he's going after the source of the Albinaurics.
@@kullervo3289 you may have some good points there. I pointed in another comment my thoughts about the whole Gideon and Seluvis ordeal, since there is another way he dies and ths quest finishes, that is not mentioned in the video.
In this way i commented, it makes more sense for Seluvis to be his own man and maybe Pidia is a servant os his.
BUT, if what you say would be true, then it falls in the part i commented about Gideon knowing Pidia is the actual Seluvis, with the Seluvis we meet being a puppet and Pidia being a fake name so that the real Seluvis, the albinauric, could hide behing his puppets!
It feels as if there is missing information; we do not know exactly how much control a puppet master has over their puppet; and while we’ve seen part of how puppets are made, I feel that we don’t get all of the info on how the poisons work; Furthermore, with pidia being an albinauric I have to wonder how much the flame of frenzy plays a part
@@theodorixjohnson4336 is the Flame of Frenzy related to Albinaurics in any way?? I thought it was only related to the wandering merchants, not albinaurics. Albinaurics are tied to the forgotten cities, i reckon
I just love the way Seluvis is so despicable and hated by any mention of him and there’s all these NPCs that know him as “that weird gross guy”. And when Ranni tells you to let Iji and Blaidd know she loves them and excludes Seluvis. Just such a cartoonishly nasty man, he and Mohg would definitely make great Discord mods
Mohg ain’t bad at all
That is if seluvis was in control. Tho remember ranni herself is a horrible person. She killed godwyn who after miquella was probably the nicest demi god.
Its like saying Stalin didint call Hannibal lector good lol. Its not really a compilment to be called good by Stalin
@@Hehehahaaau👀
@@draw2death421 Calling literally any of the demigods nice is an extreme stretch. Godwyn was a strong proponent of the Golden Order, which has its numerous problems. Miquella used mind control to accrue vast numbers of followers, who he sent to war along with his twin attack dog, Malenia. The latter in particular was no less ruthless than Ranni. Honestly, ruthlessness is the one trait all the demigods who survived the shattering shared. They all had their disparate goals, and they were willing to do whatever was necessary to achieve them. We know very little about Godwyn, but, based on what we see in-game, if he wasn't similarly ruthless he'd likely be dead by our time anyway.
@@1umbreon4lifeslander. Godwynn was shown to be one of the kinder demigods, choosing to ally with Fortissax instead of destroying him: for a prononent of the Golden Order, that’s abormal. Claiming Miquella uses mind control is your opinion, many go to him because he offers shelter and a new order for those unwelcome by the current Order. The soldiers followed out of faith, not mind control. Malenia too: just as Miquella is devoted to saving his sister from the Rot, Malenia cast aside empyrean ambitions to protect him. Meanwhile, Radahn holds the stars (fate) in stasis, preventing Ranni from her plans, but also Miquella’s (including reviving Godwynn)
I lean towards the "Pidia as puppet master" side personally. For some extra little bits of circumstantial evidence: Pidia recognizes you when you first encounter him (he exclaims "You!" before realizing his error and backing off into his groveling servant facade), his accent/the way he talks sounds (to me) sounds suspiciously similar to Seluvis' own accent/speech pattern, and also Seluvis' over-the-top aggressively condescending arrogance feels like an exaggeration (As if Seluvis might have been mean to Pidia, and Pidia only has that experience as a basis for portraying Seluvis' entire personality, making him rude even when it would be inappropriate)
Some good points here but I have a few counterpoints since personally I don’t buy this theory.
Pidia reacts the same way no matter who you’ve interacted with before you meet him.
All the Carians have a Welsh accent, including Ranni, Blaidd and Iji, so their speech patterns would be similar.
Seluvis is clearly dead before Pidia is attacked by the puppets. This makes sense since Seluvis’ magic is what kept them in check and Pidia is just a caretaker. If Pidia is the real puppet master then why is it that Seluvis dies before him? Shouldn’t Pidia die first and then Seluvis if Pidia is pulling the strings?
@@gudmundur-heimisson Seluvis never dies though, he just eventually assumes the stance of an unused puppet and lays there. No other NPC dies this way.
It could be he recognizes us as an enemy, we've been battling his beloved puppets around the manor, and he has seen us before, from his balcony, which we can't climb up to from the bonfire. He is surprised we've managed to reach him.
Seluvis looks like this when he dies because his primal glintstone was inhabiting a doll, like many sorcerers do. Pidia may recognize us because he literally watched us run through the manor and he's surprised we survived, but the Japanese makes it clear he doesn't actually recognize you and this is confusion caused by mistranslation. Pidia probably only sells what he does, including the map, because he has lots of opportunity to rummage through the manor and scavenge for goodies. If he assisted Seluvis in the transfer of his primal glintstone, he'd be in position to easily copy or steal the map.
Yeah what Oz said. His spot overlooks a grace we are forced to pass by before we can access him and if the puppets on the ramparts are indeed his then he’d have seen us through their eyes as well.
as a counter to the “personal vendetta” argument against this theory
It could be possible that Pidia has always been using selevus as a puppet, and so his slights are pidia’s slights. Additionally, it’s possible that Selevus is really just Pidia’s true personality
This is what I always believed. To add to it, as an albinuric who is destined to lose the use of his legs, Pidia has a very understandable motivation for wanting a new body to experience the world with. Thus Pidia has been Sevulvis for so long the difference between them is completely blurred. They are not different characters, just one very interesting and complex one.
@@Xerain i came here to say this😆
but albinaurics live extremely short lifespans, and Selivus has been around for a long long time. they couldn't have always been the same person
@@launchbase4944 When they say "always been", I believe they are referring to the relative current time span before and during our chapter within the universe. I don't believe they are implying that he was a puppet at birth lol
I expanded on that on a comment here on this comment section. Have a look, ut might contribute
Regardless of the truth, one of these punks should drop the magic scorpion charm if you missed it the first time.
That's the truth
Bigtime
I think Seluvis is like Sellen. He has transplanted his primal glintstone from puppet to puppet to get eternal life. Sellen mentions that Seluvis helped her escape the Academy before, probably in that way, and asks you to transfer her glintstone to one of Seluvis' puppets once more, in order to escape her prison.
Ranni is aware of all that, but doesn't have enough allies at this point, so she tolerates it. Before she leaves, she asks you to tell Blaidd and Iji that she loves them. It is clear that she only considers them as her true friends, not Seluvis nor Pidia. We know she detests the practice, because she uses a doll as a puppet, not a living body
Seluvis inactive puppet is either Ranni's work , taking out the trash before leaving by removing Seluvis' primal glintstone, or the work of the assassins that attack her rise after she gets the finger slaying blade. Most likely it was Ranni, since there is no blood around him. Pidia is most likely Seluvis' accomplice, which is why he has some of Seluvis' puppets, but once he is gone, the puppets are no longer under Seluvis' control and turn against him. If Pidia could control them, then why is he dead? Other that Seluvis death, nothing has changed for Pidia.
Hmmm interesting theory 🤔
This was my conclusion after watching this video too, We know so little about puppetry like how do we know if there is or not a limit to how many puppets one can have? Perhaps the guards around Pidia rather then Pidia looking after them, are in fact watching Pidia after being forced to control one of Seluvis's puppets by Seluvis (Dolores the Sleeping Arrow Puppet) Hence why Pidia only has that puppet in his possession.
I already hated this dude’s guts even from the moment I first met him.
But him calling Blaidd a “Mongrel”?! Killed him instantly
Say all you want about me, but talk shit about best boy Blaidd and I throw hands.
Based
"Bro code dictates; I gotta beat your ass now"
I have not seen him be alive for long because I always finished Ranni’s quests as quickly as possible then found him a corpse.
I mean 'mongrel' is not incorrect. He's an artificial creature created by the Two Fingers by some weird combo of human and wolf...I'm not sure how that happens exactly, and I don't think I want to know. Either way, 'mongrel' is an accurate description of both Blaidd and Maliketh.
I never even _found_ Pidia, so this was a fun surprise. Thank you for the video!
Most welcome! Thanks for watching
I found him mid dying from puppets
One kinda interesting line from Seluvius: "You're proving to be quite the puppeteer.
I've not had an apprentice for...a very long time indeed."
It's possible he talks about Phidia as the apprentice.
Although the the other thing is that Phidia has the map that leads us to the amber starlight, wich is certainly makes him suspicuous in this case.
Great spot actually
Pidia presumably failed to find the amber starlight with his map and you are Seluvis’ new best hope of completing his goal
@@_bstr_ct1832 Doesn't the map already have the location marked down? Also, why task Pidia with finding the Amber Starlight when he can't even walk?
It makes sense since the title "Preceptor" means tutor/ instructor/teacher
Yeah but if he had the map why wouldn't he tell us/give it to us if he was Seluvius?
My favorite piece of circumstantial evidence for Pidia being the puppet master: if you give Seluvis' potion to Nephali, you find her puppet on Pidia's corpse.
Yeah that's the point that sticks with me. How would he have her puppet?
Because he looks after the puppets ffs 🤦🏼♂️
Y’all thinking way too deep into this one Jesus chrsit
@@justwelsh ?
@@justwelsh Thinking way too deep is how you're supposed to do these
@@justwelsh bruh why do you even watch videos about Elden Ring lore in the first place lmfao
souls games lore are made especially for us to think really deep
Seluvis seems determined to take Ranni as a Puppet. I guess it would make sense that he gets turned into a Puppet as punishment.
Iji is probably the one to do him in. He knows Seluvis is dodgy and he doesn't hesitate to lock Blaidd away when he deems him to be dangerous to Ranni.
If you go to the crater in Limgrave that leads to Nokron after beating Radahn, granted you're doing Ranni's questline, Blaidd leaves a message for you saying he needs to "take care of a traitor" and for you to go on ahead to Nokron.
@@largegoop oh, I’d assumed he was talking about Darriwil and was really confused because he’d dealt with that long ago. The traitor being Seluvis/Pidia makes more sense.
@@largegoop now thar sounds like 1 of two things 1 iji locked up blaidd and used that as an excuse 2 blaidd goes after iji learning that he was going to be locked up
Kind of weird why would he even want Ranni as puppet tho. She is already spirit piloting artificial puppet, so why wont he just create replica of Ranni body and use that to control?
@@eesamohammed2104 Iji isn't a traitor though. Seluvis was the only traitor.
As we have seen with Sellen, puppets don't always have to have another person in control. I'd imagine Seluvis is in a similar situation, since Sellen has previously worked with Seluvis.
Sellen?
Sellen is a particular case, her true body was imprisonned by Jerren and she was able to basically create an avatar of herself even then due to how powerful she was so it's possible even puppeteering wouldn't have been able to truly hold her up (not to mention she just has to find another body to put her stone in and she's back anyway).
@@dikastederook6380 Yeah, I was under the impression she was astral projecting, much like Morgott does.
@@chowellith Seluvis owns a puppet of Sellen, but has never transformed Sellen herself into a puppet. In the Sellen questline that puppet can be used to restore Sellen, who lost her own body. So that Sellen puppet is just a puppet in the real meaning and not some poor soul transformed into a puppet.
@@davidgantenbein9362 it's not a puppet of Sellen, it's another different scholar from raya lucaria that he has in storage.
Another thing worth noting, Ranni knew the whole time what Selivus was planning for her, if she knew this then surely she would have known that it was not Selivus but Pidia in control
An interesting thing about this theory is the Voice Actor for these two characters.
The credit only mentioned Seluvis' VA being Charles Dale, but Pidia isn't mentioned at all. Pidia is one of the few, if not the only, voiced character in ER that is not listed on the credit. Even minor NPCs like Albus or the ghost dude in Volcano Manor, even generic soldiers grunt are credited properly for the voice, but Pidia is missing
What I take from this, is that Pidia actually has the same voice actor as Seluvis. You can give it a listen to compare them, and you'll likely to hear some similarities in their voices
As someone else mentioned here in the comments, maybe pidia doesn’t exist at all and the thing we know as pidia is the sorcerer seluvis, and that body in the preceptor set could be anyone as we can’t see an inch of skin on him
@@user-ns4zm8qe9p there are videos showing what the NPCs look like without their clothes and Seluvis is among them. Definitely not the same physical body as Pidia
I googled it and they're not voiced by the same person, likely an oversight
@@jaycartman9834 you and 4 others have bad reading comprehension.
I think the idea here is that Pidia, being crippled from his albinauric origin, could use Seluvis as his way to experience life at its fullest. As his 'real body'. An avatar.
I agree. It strengthens his love of puppets as well, the same way a man with no legs might love his wheelchair.
And He has Seluvis use all the pretty lady puppets, that the old, "everything below the waist is withered away" cannot enjoy.
It also makes sense why Pidia, through Seluvis, would hate Gideon given that Ofnir wiped out the Albinaurics.
@@BornToPeeForcedToDrinkIt i think they were enemies before that happened though
@@BornToPeeForcedToDrinkIt Or possibly that Gideon giving the order in the first place was him trying to find and kill Pidia. It never was super clear why Gideon wanted that village wiped out.
I very much like the idea that pidia was slowly corrupted by Seluvis during the war between the Carian family and The Academy. Since it makes sense during the war they would lose a lot of men so in situation like this Seluvis would likely be the one to introduce puppeteering to the royal family and likely pidia was assigned to work with seluvis on turning the enemies into puppet’s and likely became somewhat obsessed over the art of puppeteering.🤔🐱
It's strange the amount of things in Elden Ring and Naruto. The use of puppets the Erd Tree and the Divine Tree both being alien in origin
It's a fun theory but I agree unlikely. Another explanation for Pidia being that way when you meet him is albanarics are treated terribly and it could just be a survival technique to submit to anyone that might want to hurt him. His final words would be inline with this and really sad if true...
Yeh I like it but I personally lean the other way
@@SmoughTown yeah we watched the video
@@zakinnamis5577 ok rude
This statement is kind of a stretch. “Could just be a survival technique”? It’s lowkey implied that pidia is controlling seluvis and using him to give women the potion, so that he can molest them… and once seluvis dies, pidia does soon after… which isn’t suspicious at all xD
What I just said makes even more sense after seluvis tries to get you to give the potion to ranni, and talks about touching the puppets with his own hands
My headcanon is that before his puppetification Seluvis wasn’t as perverse, generally not being pleasant to be around but not as bad as when we meet him. Instead he was deeply paranoid, very rarely trusting anyone who wasn’t under his direct control. Because of this when he needed someone with sleep arrows for whatever reason instead of just asking Dolores to help out he turned her into a puppet and that caused the split between him and Gideon. Not really backed by anything though.
Seriously interesting theory, and I love how you gave both sides of the argument too. As always, keep up the great content. Hopefully you reach 100k soon!
Thank you so much! Fingers crossed
My take on it had been that the ‘Pidia’ we meet really is just the modern form of the man many know as Seluvis, and that the Seluvis puppet is the front he acts through now, and when met pretends to be this character ‘Pidia’ that he created. This could be as an additional layer of security, and aiding his progressed albinauric state.
Seluvis’ outfit is notably covered head to toe, even an elaborate mask and a giant hat forcing physical distance and creating shadow over his face-any puppet could be in all that and you wouldn’t be able to tell who it really was, or if it was the same it was yesterday, or years ago.
As for the puppets killing him, I’m guessing that’s just Ranni’s chosen method of execution-tried to turn me into a puppet? I’ll kill your with your puppets. As you said she didn’t seem surprised to hear this about Seluvis, maybe knew tryin is where the real Seluvis was. Possible it wouldn’t even require controlling the puppets, just freeing them from his control and they’d do the rest, and seems in her wheelhouse given that it sounds like it’s magic related to the stars that makes the puppets in the first place.
Well summed up
Oh I like that much more
The only issue with that last part is that Seluvis dies regardless of whether you progress his quest or not. So if it was Ranni taking her revenge, it wouldn’t be justified given the fact that we didn’t give her Seluvis’ potion yet. But overall I love the idea of Seluvis being Pidia, and how he was able to keep the charade up with his chosen attire.
@@karstenpenkacik9505 yes fair and I should have known that given that’s how it happened with me lol. Maybe she just knew his treachery regardless (which she seems to imply) and tossed that out before heading of to kill her two fingers? But I agree it’s an issue.
@@dylanmiller9162 your conclusion is what I came too as well. That seluvis was just a front. Possibly for quite some time. So to me this means that Pidia is the one who wanted revenge on gideon. Seluvis was just the quest giver and may have delivered the puppets to Pidia in our absence. This video was helpful because I always missed the dialogue about ranni knowing about his schemes. So I never understood why he was dying. On my third playthrough and still learning things😅!
the line "taste of his own medicine" is what sold me on your theory
It always felt fitting for me
During my first playthrough, Seluvis's demise was really well timed with when I showed Gideon the potion. I legit though that Gideon decided to get rid of Seluvis in an immensely fitting and ironic manner.
If you gave the potion to Gideon that is the result. Gideon does turn him into a puppet with his own potion.
I cannot stress enough that you are currently making the best Elden ring lore videos on TH-cam.
That’s very kind 🙏thank so much
I haven't started watching the video yet but the title alone made me think, and yeah, Seluvis's 'death' is extremely unusual. No one else leaves behind a physical corpse, and his positioning is just like the inert dolls.... I didn't realize Pidia's death was the cause of this. Fuuuuck, this is an interesting detail.
Iji leaves behind a body when he dies (if you complete his quest), and it's in a similar position
He is like that because Ranni used a puppet potion on him after you give her the Amber Draught. Simple as that.
Ranni did it. An ironic comeuppance for Selvis, the puppetmaster. It only happens when Ranni gets pissed or not longer has a use for the slimy Selvis
That was my initial thought on first play through
@@SmoughTown and its literally what has happened. Pidia is still alive when that happens.
I was debating about this the first time I encountered this. Is Pidia Seluvis' puppet? Is Seluvis Pidia's puppet. Or are they just working together. Even though it's just a game, I find it incredibly difficult to give the draughts to Nepheli or Ranni.
My only conclusion to this debate is that "I think everyone involved needs to die". I'm glad the two of them did. My only regret is that I didn't get to do them in myself.
I'm confused as to why Seluvis thinks Ranni's rope/wooden puppet body would be affected by the draught. If you try to give it to her, you will be made to feel stupid.
@@Molotov_Milkshake Yeah Ranni's really up front with the whole "I literally destroyed my own body" thing don't know how Selly missed it
@@corycurren3345 She also recognises out loud that it's one of his ploys if you try to give her the potion too. So he's not unknown to her or anything. it's an odd detail.
U can give dung eater the draft
I gave it to ranni it’s unfortunate it didn’t work
During Seluvis’s quest, you can choose to give the potion to Gideon. He says he recognizes the potion, and suggests that if you give it to him, the two of you can “get one over on him”. It was my assumption that Gideon had somehow sent someone to dose Seluvis with the potion, which in turn, turned him into a puppet.
A thing that would combine the two theories, and solve at least some inconsistencies, is if Pidia actully is Seluvis, and the Seluvis we meet is just some random dude, having been made into a puppet.
That's what I always thought. He is simple controlling a remote puppet that everyone know as Seluvis but the real Seluvis is Pidia. I mean the armor covers the dude head to toe. I read the armor saying that he was friends with the "all knowing douche bag" Gid but they prob haven't seen each other since they parted way. If they were in person he could prob tell that it wasn't the real Seluvis but no one who didn't know him personally would. We tell him we met Seluvis, told him how he dressed and how he was rockin the "Squidward" vibes so Gid prob thinks that's him since everything we describe is what he knows. Would a puppet master not take pleasure in putting on a meek sniveling persona while manipulating everyone by controlling everything (or so he thinks) as Seluvis? Sounds like a puppet master's wet dream. For One Piece fans, think the Big Mom Commander Cracker. Dude spends so much time as his alter ego Cracker armor that not even the world goverment knows what the real cracker looks like or that he is a real coward that hates pain, the complete opposite of what his alter ago cracker armor puppet is known for.
But Sellius worked at the academy where he met Sellen before joining Ranni. And he can’t have been an albinauric there
@@noamias4897 Sellius only writes the introductory letter to Sellen without ever meeting her. So it could keep true to back when he could still walk before he lost the use of his legs.
Love the way you can connect all the dots and portray it in a understandable way.
Btw I would like to see a video about Varré,
I believe that the war surgeon gown has some interesting lore. It reads "of the surgeons that were abducted by the Lord of Blood none were able to tame the accursed blood.
None but Varré that is; though he was an exception"
I don't know of any other item that says something about Varré (except his weapon)
He covered Varre's lore in the Mogh video.
Easily my favorite lore channel, keep it up dude!
Thank you so much my friend!
12:45 I still think Pidia is the master mind. It is its own kind of horror to realize someone who you thought you knew is something totally different. It doesn't even need to be a friend you miss understood, just someone you had a strong opinion about.
The worst part isn't just the realization that someone you thought you knew is something else than you thought, the terror is in realization that your perception of reality around you is actually very fragile. If Seluvis being a person was a grounding fact within you perception of reality and that wasn't true, what else could you be wrong about?
Though, this is all just my thoughts on the narrative of the circumstances, in no way proving the argument one way or the other. Still like the video though, just like every other ER video from ST before (:
Yep, like I say - I swing between it as well
You are going a bit too far with it
It fits in line with the souls theme of losing your mind and questioning reality
Biggest issue is that Pidia says he "loves the puppets" He acts as though he detests them, until his death when we hear the truth. I feel this factors in
I like when lore videos try to prove "their" theory is wrong, like how the scientific methodology works
How it should be done!
That's how it should be done indeed. No pushing narratives, just "This is evidence to what I believe, but there is also evidence to the contrary."
Two more things. When you meet Seluvis in Ranni's Rise, listen to how he says "I reside... in another tower nearby". The delivery of the line seems very purposeful because it's Pidia being careful how he tells you where 'he' actually is. Second is in the creepy underground lab, that one message say "Seluvis' Puppet, do not touch" which can be interpreted two ways. 1) The puppet here belongs to Seluvis, do not touch OR 2) This is where the puppet of Seluvis normally is, but it's not there at the moment because he's in the tower being puppeted actively by Pidia. To me, there's is WAY too much in favor of Seluvis being Pidia's puppet.
The apostrophe at the end of his name grammatically means he owns the puppet. It can only be interpreted in one way.
Whoa, pretty nuts. I'm on my 6th character and have never run into pidia alive.
One thing in favour of pidia being the puppet master is a wordplay. In Seluvis basement you can find a spirit of Seluvis which says ”Seluvis puppet do not touch”.
It does not say Seluvis’S Puppet, implying that this is where pidia kept Seluvis puppet when he was not using him.
Very good point I always wondered why that one sentence had such awful grammar but this makes much more sense
Is that the case in the original Japanese tho? Could be a translation error
No, it says *"Seluvis'* puppet. Do not touch." With Seluvis' meaning the same as Seluvis's.
@@Lilferibyit still could mean the same thing
@@peng0_266 No, it can't. Names that end with an S get an apostrophe at the end to dictate ownership. The puppet BELONGS to Seluvis. It is Seluvis' puppet. Not a puppet of him.
Ranni could have used the puppets to kill pidia when she got pissed. I mean she literally is a piloted puppet 🤔 that's what seemed sensible to me
Well, Ranni is an artificial puppet like marionette soldiers, while Pidia puppet's are once living beings.
Being a puppet is like enslaving a soul, stopping its rebirth through the erdtree, ranni just separated her soul from her body, I don't think she had any control over them, in fact holds some disdain for them
@@fatalmistakes7773 disagree, as your name indicates you’ve made a fatal mistake. Ranni is actually just melina, when they rejoin it creates a true body. While separate they both work to the same end, but they gain followers using differing methods. But do not be fooled, the goal remains the same. Ranni and melina are the puppet masters. They create conflict to gain power. Using puppets and living alike as simple pawns.
When you open the way to nokron you can find a message from blaidd saying he'll catch up later as he is dealing with a traitor. I always thought he went to kill pidia and was later captured inthe gaol
@@rhynlock11 lol you guys don’t get it. The person in control of the puppets wasn’t a single person. Some of the puppets were controlled by Ranni, some of the puppets were controlled by Melina. Ranni and Melina are two halves of one entity. The reason they are both “souls without body” is because they regain their body when they rejoin. As separate entities they work towards the same goals using differing methods and using tarnished and others alike as pawns to the cause. Of the two personalities melina is the dominant personality or soul. Meaning she had to ensure Ranni wouldn’t gain enough power to dominate her when they rejoined. Also it’s questionable if Ranni is even aware she is half of Melina, but Melina is aware of Ranni. Melina can’t take her true form until DLC. It’ll be cool if we can influence wether Ranni or Melina ends up as the personality in control.
addicted to your videos, no one has been able to analyse elden ring as well as you just yet.
Consistently, too! Such a great flow of highly-curated content.
Thank you so much 😍
@@karldergrosse-333 such kind words thank you!
The thumbnail art is god tier
You took the mantle of JFS’s as my favorite approach to lore in the souls game. Love the videos man I can’t wait for a year to go by and have the whole catalog of the game. Keep going I’ve been here since your interview with SinClairlore
Thank you so much for the long support! That means the world
I would fully believe that Pidia is the puppet master, were it not for that one piece of damning evidence that Seluvis seems far too much of an individual to be a puppet
Consider when Nepheli or Dung Eater are given the potion, it seems like their minds fade away, becoming these thoughtless, inert slaves, as well as when we meet Finger Maiden Therolina and all she can do is bow and even then I'm not sure if that's her doing it on her own or Seluvis is somehow able to see through her eyes and act accordingly. Perhaps Seluvis is a special sort of puppet, something much more sophisticated than the others but I see no evidence to support that
This is genuinely my biggest issue as well
I also find it hard not to treat Seluvis as his own person, or at least as being a previously fully separate individual from Pidia. A preceptor (the set name that Seluvis wears) is defined as a teacher or instructor. Seluvis also gives us a letter of introduction to Sellen heavily implying that Seluvis taught at the Academy at a time before Sellen was expelled. This means either, before joining Ranni Seluvis was a skilled sorcerer at Raya Lucaria who's talents were noticed by Ranni, or Pida is a playing the long game for the Carian Royals by having a puppet within the Carian's closest enemy, the Academy of Raya Lucaria via Seluvis.
Well, to play devil's advocate, we do see Pidia controlling a small army of puppets up on the walkways.
It's possible that Pidia has exceptional control over puppets. Perhaps even an ability to control their speech and affect?
We don't see any direct evidence of this of course but it could be inferred.
I think the bigger problem is that Seluvis would have needed to be a puppet when he was at Round Table Hold.
If Dolores was the cause of the Ofnir/Seluvis split, then that should mean that Dolores was important to him. But Pidia has her spirit. Why would Seluvis give something so important to anybody? For this scenario to come close to making sense, it would have to have been Pidia who had a thing for Dolores and he was controlling Seluvis to act as his agent in a sort of Cyrano style love triangle. But the obvious problem is that Pidia is not Tarnished. He can't have been at the Round Table hold, so far as we know.
This has a domino effect on all of the other Pidia: Puppet Master arguments as that timeline makes no sense.
@@rainbowkrampus True, Pidia’s ability to control puppets is very apparent, or at least the evidence strongly suggests as much. Perhaps he is apprenticed to Seluvis? I’d believe that Pidia has learned puppeteering from Seluvis, maybe even that the Cuckoo soldiers are puppets that he made himself following the attack on the manor
@@rainbowkrampus I think it should be definitely regarded in the puppet theory, that Seluvis was at one point his own man. Both in the Academy as well as in the roundtablehold, he must have been his own person. Furthermore, I would also state that even in his service to Ranni he had to be himself. This of course creates the question, when was he turned into a puppet? Did Pidia then simply start to act as Seluvis would once he made him into a puppet? Was this the reason why Ranni wouldn’t trust you with the potion because she knew Seluvis was already made into a puppet?
An interesting detail I found is that Seluvis didn’t had any apprentices in a long time, maybe that was Pidia talking from his experience and his last apprentice was Seluvis himself?
There's also the issues of his illusory image you speak with when first joining Ranni. This to me, implies his spiritual existence being his own in order to present himself rather than a hallowed out essence of a puppet.
It depends on if someone can customize what their projected form looks like though. It might even be more like a magical hologram rather than a look at their soul.
When I made my way to Pidia after discovering an unresponsive Seluvis, he was begging for his life. Not yet dead despite Seluvis' inanimate state.
After having found him murdered by the puppets, my first thought was that the absence of Seluvis' will allowed the latent "predilections" of those "ambient souls" to manifest.
Its exactly what happened. The theory that Pidia is the puppet master is 100% wrong. Seluvis is an estsblished character that interacted with many others(Gideon, Dolores, Sellen). How would he get turned in a puppet by a crippled Albinauric. Being a teacher of magical arts i strongly doubt Pidia would have been able to make him drink the puppet potion unknowingly.
@@mathieuxlaflamme2322 and yet when he dies, he is in the exact same pose as his puppets. How would that be possible if he himself where not a puppet?
@@richardrussel4567 he gets fed one of his potion by Ranni when she leaves. She's not gonna let a dangerous deviant like Seluvis go free once she's gone. And what more ironically fitting way to do this with his own puppet potion. The 2nd trigger for Seluvis' death is when you give her Seluvis' Amber Draught, wich makes it more obvious that she took revenge after he tried to turn her into his personal puppet. Then after Seluvis dies, Pidia gets killed by the active puppets inside the Manor that went berserk since their creator lost the willpower to control them.
This got way longer than I intended.
Here's my theory:
Ranni is the puppet master.
She has the most intimate understanding of how puppets work, because she is one. And she wasn't created by someone else, she made herself into a puppet. So she knows the whole process, and probably much more advanced, since hers involved a soul transfer out of the original body. The Black Knife Assassins, atleast now, are puppets. Some item states that they are all female. Now, I don't know about Alecto or Tiche, but the other Black Knives have no face. They are just empty suits of armor. They are also immune to all status effects. Except cold, according to the wiki. This still makes sense as cold is Ranni's specialty. It's a failsafe, she can still destroy them should she lose control of them.
Consider the Three Sisters rises. Renna is Ranni. Ranni is Ranni. And I conclude that Seluvis is also Ranni. This is why she knows exactly what he's up to, it is her testing your loyalties. He's probably been her puppet since before Dolores came in between Gideon and Seluvis. Perhaps this is why Dolores was turned to a puppet. Ranni was tying up loose ends. Nepheli Loux is another loose end, she is the daughter of Horah Loux, and as such, is a threat. Especially if she's working for Gideon. Seluvis's hidden chamber is outside of Ranni's Rise, not Seluvis's Rise. Why would he put a note incriminating himself in his own chamber, claiming the puppets were his? Why would he need that? He doesn't. It's there because he's a scape goat.
Ranni is a mastermind when it comes to planning. As evidenced by the success of the Night of Black Knives. When you first meet her as Renna, if you say no to her, she will mock you. But if you continue to say no, she compliments you as wise, for not being too quick to trust others. You lie to her, but she's not offended, she's impressed. Then she gives you a bell which allows you to summon spirits, and puppets. When she leaves through Renna's rise to kill the 2 Fingers with the Fingerslayer Blade, she has to tie up her loose ends. She sends Black knives to kill Blaidd and Iji. But they knew the plan. Without her presence Seluvis is just a husk. And she has Pidia's puppets kill him for stealing from the hidden chamber. She keeps you close, to kill the Baleful Shadow, and to grant her access to the Elden Ring should you defeat Marika. She had it all planned for a long time. She just needed the stars to align, figuratively and literally.
Also in the opening, Godwyn's death looks more like a ritual than an assassination or battle. It would not be so easy to take down the golden child who defeated Fortisax. Yet there is nothing describing a struggle between him and the Black Knives. Ranni likely convinced Godwyn to sacrifice himself. How else would she be able to time it so they died at the same time? Ranni and Marika weren't the only demi-gods who wanted to go against the fates of the Greater Will.
Very interesting. This actually does make quite a bit of sense and could be possible. I don't think it's the most likely answer but a great theory nonetheless
Also, why are the 3 rises called The Three 'Sisters' (female) if one of them is Seluvis (a male)? Like you say....is it just Ranni pulling the strings of Seluvis and testing you? I need to go back through Ranni's dialogue and her references to Seluvis but I agree, there is more to it!
There is no other feasible explanation why Seluvis is a puppet and isnt held by Pidia when he dies. Worth noting that Renna is also 'blue' like the other puppets..and her limbs are literally held together by what looks like string, so an actual physical puppet.
Ranni - Puppet Master
Renna - Rannis host Puppet
Seluvis - Rannis 'test' Puppet
That would make her her mother's daughter.
@@Captain1nsaneo arent all females daughters to their mothers?
@@Nosh_Feratu Yes, but it's an idiom. Meaning is similar to 'the apple doesn't fall far from the tree'.
What if Seluvis was Pidia's puppet for much longer than we thought? The albernauric uses his puppet to live out his fantasys and the reason Gideon had a fallout with him was because he was a literal different person wearing his friend as a mask.
You didn't mention the albinauric bloodclot... I am disappointed and betrayed without compare...
Amazing vid as always mate! Cant wait fo the next one.
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@@joaofaria7404 an inside joke of the channel's. Smoughtown had, up until today, mentioned the Albinauric Bloodclot in all of his Lore videos in one way or another. This led him to ironically call it "the best Lore item in-game" or something to that effect.
Thanks my friend! Hahah I know, I am letting us all down!
One point I think should be brought up is the purpose of Pidia in a meta-textual sense. When the writers of the NPCs and their questlines wrote Pidia, what role did they envision him to have?
I think this question is important precisely because Pidia seems like such a ‘nothing’ character. He doesn’t have some interesting story or arc and he doesn’t serve as an important plot-device in somebody else’s questline. Despite this he’s very obviously hidden from the player; I doubt all that many people ran into him on a first play through, especially in comparison to most other NPCs.
So this begs the question, why is Pidia even in the game? Why did FromSoftware even bother to include him? I feel like there are three main possibilities.
1. He serves as the resident Caria Manor Merchant (in place of, say, a wandering merchant). I won’t deny the possibility of this, but I find it hard to see how this function couldn’t have been served by Seluvis or, as I alluded to earlier, a wandering merchant.
2. He’s in the game to provide extra texture and context for the Caria Manor (an extremely important location both lore-wise and for major NPC questlines)
3. He’s hiding a big secret, and the purpose of his character is to provide intrigue and to hide a surprising truth for players.
I solidly believe that number three makes the most sense, because it’s the most interesting possibility and because virtually all of Elden Ring’s NPCs are more than they first seem when you meet them. Like seriously, almost everybody in this game has some secret identity or secret alliance or is involved in some bigger plan or conspiracy. EVEN THE NAMELESS MERCHANT CHARACTERS HIDE A CATASTROPHIC PAST!
It just makes sense to me from a meta perspective that the writers put Pidia in the game as the true, secret identity of Seluvis. But of course maybe the real point of Pidia was to create the open-ended question of whether or not that is the case. Keep us guessing.
I feel like an idiot, I didn't know you could speak to piteya before his death. So that's on my checklist for this play through.
I didn't even see pidia on my first playthrough
@@camila_costa12 I didn't either. 😆
What a fantastic little video - rapidly becoming my fav lore FromSoft lore channel (plus being one of my countrymen!)
In another playthrough I killed him "too soon" because of his attitude, and blaidd in Sofria became agressive.
I used a celestial dew, continued a bit the quest, then killed him again lmfao
Well when you kill him he fade away, strange, and after the first hit he has some sort of barrier, strange for a puppet
I’ve always seen his puppet pose at his death as a sort of parallel to other characters in this world that have become so obsessed with their perceived idea of ultimate strength that they transform into something less than not more than. I felt that he made himself into a puppet at some point thinking it would make him more powerful the way the primeval sorcerers replaced their heads and turned themselves into vegetables, or Sellen turning herself into a gravemass, or Godrick incessantly grafting limbs onto himself, or the soldiers trying to turn themselves into dragons, or Rykard letting the serpent eat him. There seems to be a theme in this game of consuming obsession. I’m not sure there’s any more evidence for my theory than that though lol
I feel the elephant question that has not been awnersed is what happens to Seluvis if you kill Pidia early in the game? Unless they are unkillable/respawning npcs that is a great way to test how they are connected.
They aren't connected. All killing Pidia does is ends his questline for the amber.
Pidia is stuck in a no weapon allowed zone like the Roundtable meaning the devs designed for pidia to not be killable
So even if we found a way to kill him (cheats, ranged attacks, ect...) there would be no way the programmers connected it to Seluvis
What if i find more weird is why the devs decided to take that choice instead of giving pidia an invulnerable shield like other npc in the game
No weapons allowed zones are, in canon, just our character refusing to choose violence (since we can fight Esha in the Roundtable)
As far as I recall, Pidia is in a protected area so you can't actually attack him.
@@taste5728 thanks, don't own the game yet so didn't know about the no weapon zone.
@@taste5728 no one else is in Roundtable when you fight Ensha so I think he’s shifting us into another pocket dimension or something rather than ignoring the rules. Dung Eater also refrains from killing you and it’s not because he’s invading, he’s fine with invading to kill you later
I’ve never considered that Seluvis might be a puppet himself and I don’t read fan theories on Reddit but as soon as I saw the thumbnail for this video, several things clicked into place and I felt really dumb for not realizing the implications sooner. It’s impossible to know how much control Pidia has over his puppets, but if he were able to speak through them, then it’s totally viable theory. Super cool!
Excellent video. I like that you present both sides to the argument while not down playing either side
Thanks Ricky! I think it's the best way to approach these things
@@SmoughTown definitely!
I agree - the idea of Ranni turning Seluvis into a puppet out of spite seems most logical to me. I'd say Pidia was his old apprentice, clearly more than he lets on but not controlling Seluvis himself.
While I personally believe Seluvis was his own person, there is a potential connection with Pidia and the chosen puppets if we consider that he's an albenaric, and it was Gideon who wiped out the albenaric village in his search for the haligtree medallion. So there is the potential motivation for revenge.
The more I think about it, the more anyway seems possible. Example: Pidia worked for Seluvis and puppets so long he eventually fell in love with them (like Seluvis insists will happen with you as you buy puppets which implies, he AKA Pidia, eventually became obsessed with them after having to take care of them for so long. Speaking from experience). He learned how Seluvis made his potions, made his own, and turned Seluvis into his own personal puppet. When he finds Gideon has killed his homies, he retaliates by taking away his daughter and using her (maybe in a failed assassination attempt). Gideon is the all knowing so we either tell him about the potion or he just finds out from his intel network what happened to one of his former assets and that Seluvis needs to be taken out. Gideon has a history with Seluvis so he probably realizes that Seluvis has ironically become a puppet himself. It depends on how the potions work but Seluvis's OG puppets are the ones He created from the Cuckoo soldiers when the Carians went to war with the school. (as all of Ranni's vessels are extremely loyal). So Pidia fell in love with Seluvis's puppets and are likely his sentimental favorites (the line before he dies says how he loved them). Gideon can't harm Pidia due to the churches "Serenity" . I imagine it's a real form of magic that prevents violent thoughts/intentions being translated to actual violence(When we get attacked by Ensha I'm pretty sure we get ported to the actual round table in the capital as everything is darker and shit, not the usual well let place with people in it). I mean the Dung Eater was incapable of torcher and cursing us despite his very vocalness to wanting to do that....a lot. So Gideon makes his own potion and uses it on Seluvis that cancels out Pedia's control and Seluvis's Cuckoo puppets used to protect the manor kill the real threat to Gideon. Being puppets could make them immune to the churches "serenity" magic and thus able to harm Pidia. I mean we can kill anyone in the damn game, there is no reason they would protect this NPC like they do the spirit healer girl.
the first time I played that part, I have Linked Seluvis dead body to Blaidd killing him before our final goodbye. Great vídeo Smo.
On the theory concerning Pidia being Seluvis, I have some opinions to share.
I feel that there are far too many contradictory pieces of evidence when it comes to Pidia being Seluvis, there are alibies, and of course the prominence of Seluvis's individuality. Ranni treated Seluvis as a loyal servant, Gideon recognized him as a puppeteer and former colleague, and others who have worked intimately with Seluvis had not noticed any discrepancies in his personality, which would have at some point become apparent to any one of them. Especially with Pidia being as unstable as he is, there are bound to be slip ups.
What I propose is that Seluvis and Pidia may have had a Frankenstein / Igor relationship, with Pidia playing the part of "mortician" in a sense, preparing the bodies for use. I believe this may be why you are not immediately given the puppets after administering Seluvis's draught. Something more needs to be done for them to be fully functioning puppets capable of heeding commands and summons. This would also explain why Pidia has the Napheli ashes in his possession upon his death. He was "preparing" her to to be utilized as a puppet. This is corroborated by the fact that Pidia himself says he is "charged" with maintaining the dolls. Clearly Seluvis had ordered Pidia to maintain their forms, perhaps Pidia had some sort of expertise in this matter that rendered him useful to Seluvis. And knowing Seluvis's modus operandi, he is clearly the dominating figure between the two, having abused / scared Pidia witless into doing his bidding.
Another thing to note: only a few of the puppets surrounding Pidia had physically assaulted him, all of them being Cuckoo Knights. This could suggest that Seluvis had them planted there specifically to guard Pidia and eliminate him should anything compromise Seluvis's scheme. This would allow Seluvis to tie up loose ends, and ensure that there was no trail to follow in the event that he desired to hide himself. Seluvis was also notably clever, having aided Sellen when she was expelled from the academy, creating a puppet for her and teaching her how to transfer her own consciousness from one body to another, effectively allowing her to evade those hunting her as she pursued her studies. A man such as Seluvis would surely have a failsafe of his own, and would never put his host body in jeopardy in the event that something should befall him. He knew that he had potential enemies everywhere, even Blaidd teased the idea of killing him and was tasked by the Two Fingers to relentlessly pursue anyone who threatens Ranni's life. This is why the Seluvis that is "killed" by Ranni, is merely a puppet. Where his host body actually resides is unknown, and will likely stay that way. Seluvis, like Sellen, will continue to pursue his studies in secret far from Ranni's gaze now that she is wise to his treachery.
One other thing to note concerning Ranni is that while she is immensely powerful, she does bear the characteristics of a young girl / princess. She can be quite proud and naïve at times, which we can see during your interaction with her doll and her disbelief that you saw through her guise. It is also evident in her deep familial relationship / trust with her hirelings, which is what I believe allows Seluvis to get away with much of his scheming and general nefariousness for so long. So to sum it up, I personally feel this is the most likely of scenarios. There are far too many holes in the Pidia = Seluvis theory, some that are even lore-bending. But that is simply my take, at the end of the day this is all left to our interpretation, but hopefully my perspective may help shed some light on the totally convoluted rabbit hole that is Seluvis's questline. Lol.
A part of me believes Selivus is like Sellen after we revive her. A Mage core in a puppet body. And when Ranni kills him she basically just destroys his core. In a sense snapping his strings.
Pedia is Seluvis. The end.
My personal theory is that Seluvis is the original personality, but that he resides in the body we know as Pidia.
My main path there was the first meeting with Pidia where he accidentally uses Seluvis' speech patterns.
So, Seluvis disguised himself as a servant or soul transferred, because he wanted to hide from his enemies. And then ran his old identity as a puppet for official business. We see from both Sellen's and Ranni's quest that there is a tradition of sorcery that considers your own body to be utterly disposable.
Hell yeah, I've been waiting for this
I understood it as pidia had those puppets because he was the one doing the labor or completing the process. Selvus seems like while he is very knowledgeable about puppets doing the actual process is beneath him. He’s more into the finding them and then controlling them at the end. I also read Pidias line as “I’m the one who made y’all and took care of ya! Don’t turn on me”
One hiccup in this theory that stands out to me is that if Seluvis is actually Pidia's puppet, why doesn't Seluvis already have the location information for the amber shard, if Pidia has the map? It's not as if we'd be more suspicious if Seluvis just told us where to find it. I suppose it could be to thoroughly establish them as individuals, but it seems odd to me. I had always assumed Seluvis in puppet-pose was Ranni's doing as a tit-for-tat for his attempt at puppeting her.
Because if Seluvis was a real boy, he could just go get the amber himself. If Seluvis is actually a legless albinauric who can't walk, he can't go get the amber. So if Puppeteer A asks you to find something puppet related, you will naturally ask the only other Puppeteer you know, further reinforcing the idea that they're not the same person, and maintaining his cover.
this has to be my favourite side quests in all of fromsoft games. cant imagine actually trying it without using a guide. they really went above and beyond with the story.
Another Smough vid! Nice job on this one dude!
Thanks dude
Thank god someone finally addressed this!!! I always wondered why no one talks about this!
I am certain Selevus was a real person once, his relationship with Dolores and Gideon were clearly that of being possesed of his own agency and free will. Whether Pidia was his pupil or not, by the end I think it's clear that Pidia added Selevus and his puppets to his own collection. When this happened ? I have no idea - but likely after his allegiance to Ranni...
Selevus' desire as a preceptor to serve Ranni would have aligned with his own desires to
continue his puppetry arts, and Ranni would have been to canny to be duped by a puppet.
But at some point, she was away and absorbed with her own plans.
I think its also clear that her "doll" body was made possible by Selevus. Did Ranni expect
betrayal from him. I think so.
I think this gap is where Pidia had the notion to take his master as a puppet and
and through him, an even bigger prize. A demi-god; Ranni. Pidia's own death may have
been a safe-guard by Selevus. The deaths of both of them need not be as simultaneous, as we have been lead to believe.
Pidia being an albinauric, it would have appealed to him to get revenge on people such as Selevus for looking down on his kind as mearly "created life" and to create the puppets must have been amazing to him. But in time I can also surmise that Selevus' haughty attitude and snobbery is what lead to his downfall. At the hands of his former pupil no less. Quite a delicious notion.
So I think there is no clear answer - except - the "when" and "if" of Selevus becoming a puppet himself.
Overall I agree with your alternate theory! That's kinda the conclusion that I came to as well. However, there is one extra detail that I believe that makes Pidia fit into the story better. I think of him as sort of a scavenger and thief. Hes been stealing items, like the map and puppets from Seluvis, and thats why we find them in his possession.
Two tests I would like to have seen in the video: You, the player, kill Seluvis or Pidia and then check on the other. If killing Pidia causes Seluvis to drop into puppet mode we know Pidia was puppet master. If killing Seluvis causes Pidia's puppets to kill him we know Seluvis is puppet master. If neither happens from killing one of them well I guess that's inconclusive.
I don't think you can kill pidia normally there's a peace field on the balcony I tried when I read this lol
Can't kill Pidia, he is a no violence zone.
@@Jugglestheaxetosser I found a spot to shoot Pidia from with a longbow. But the arrows just pass through him. Pidia has no hitbox. He can't die.
Thanks anyways guys!
Regarding Seluvis's 'puppet death pose,' I like to believe it's more probable that he had his own primal glintstone inside the body we know him as. Like form of self-puppetry what Sellen practices. Given they also have some history, I don't think this to be far fetched. Also to note, puppets do not tend to speak, unless they are self-puppeteered like Ranni. Meaning the body/puppet has to house a soul in order to speak. Otherwise, Seluvis might've had a few words with us through Finger Maiden Therolina at Radahn Festival square instead of just bowing to us.
I literally just finished the shadowbound beast video, so this is perfect
Great timing! Hope you enjoyed
Another brilliant video, I'm definitely leaning toward the Pidia side. Would be really cool if you got Seluvis' puppet for Ranni's ending though!
Here’s one piece of evidence that makes it so bleedingly obvious they’re supposed to be the same person, I’m surprised it’s rarely brought up: they have the exact same voice actor.
Why would they go out of their way to have the same person voice act two characters with similar backgrounds, who are part of the same questline, but aren’t related to each other in a significant way?
Except they're not the same VA...Seluvis is Charles Dale while Pidia is Martyn Ellis. What you been smokin homie?
@@scotthall7307 Martyn Ellis didn't voice act Pidia. According to the credits and IMDB, Martyn VA'd Albus.
th-cam.com/users/clipUgkxCBDBTengobjByWwlcv5KOpb11MgO6xIH
Proof is up there.
What I will acknowledge is that the credits don't actually list Pidia as having a voice actor... which is odd, I admit. I had a source tell me it's because Pida and Seluvis have the same voice actor. They certainly sound the same, but I acknowledge now that the game doesn't actually confirm my hunch.
Source for them having the same voice actor?
@@marinbolder3730 None, besides the fact that the game conveniently does not list Pidia as having a voice actor, and that his voice and accent are extremely similar to Seluvis's.
I love all your videos, thank you! You show all evidence well and make it clear what is speculation! :)
Thanks Meg, I'll endeavour to always do this.
I'm fairly certain Seluvis used to be a Preceptor, party to Gideon Ofnir's Roundtable Hold, and formerly mutual friends with Dolores the Sleeping Arrow.
However, by the time we meet him, I am fairly sure Pidia has overtaken Seluvis' will. Aside from sharing a voice actor, the sign in Seluvis' basement reads "Seluvis puppet, do not touch." No possessive apostrophe. As in, that is where Pidia stores the Seluvis puppet when not in use. That's how I took it, at least, after seeing his deactivated pose, and reading "Seluvis Puppet" in the merchant menu that comes up when you click on him.
In addition, the Albinauric Tower found in the Consecrated Snowfield holds the Graven Mass talisman, accessible only through Haligtree Medallions (which only albinaurics have). The path of primal glintstone is as old as the astrologers, who also lived on the Mountaintops of the Giants. The astrologers used the paths of the stars to determine fate, and the potions Seluvis makes rely on starlight shards to do their vile work. Seluvis was a Preceptor. Preceptors came about after Radagon married Rennala, and after Radahn arrested the fate of the stars; as such, astrology could no longer guide the Carian royal family. Astrologers who lived in the mountaintops considered the giants neighbors and were likely banished from the Lands Between even before the rest of the Tarnished, after Radagon took the Fire Giants out. Preceptors were Radagon's secret service- that in and of itself makes it very strange to see one defying the Greater Will and Golden Order so brazenly, especially when Preceptor Miriam stands guard over Ranni's corpse (which bears half of the Cursemark of Death, necessary to the plans of Those Who Live in Death, greatly opposed by the Golden Order).
While there is a chance that Seluvis was an astrologer before he was a preceptor, I find it more likely that Pidia was an albinauric astrologer who leveraged his preexisting knowledge of the stars to enslave his former master Seluvis with the Carian family's Nox-derived arts of puppetry. However, I am fairly certain the apprentice Seluvis mentioned is Sellen, who sought to deepen her knowledge of primal glintstone after Azur and Lusat's banishment. Seluvis himself would not have a reason to know of primal glintstone, but Pidia may, so it could be possible that not even Sellen met the real Seluvis.
Given that most of the Abinaurics in the game are found in Liurnia I don't think they were around in the time of astrologers, My personal theory is that they are a creation of the Carians in their old struggle against the academy before Rennala enchanted the sorcerers.
No, there is definitely a possessive apostrophe in “Seluvis’ puppet, do not touch.”
It could be that we never meet Seluvis and instead just a puppet being controlled by Seluvis, as if you try to kill him he just vanishes and makes some vague threats; unlike other NPCs, he can be brought back with celestial dew after you "kill" him.
An interesting thing to note is that you can give Seluvis’ potion to Gideon and you’ll then find Seluvis in the puppet pose. This strengthens the theory that Ranni turned Seluvis into a puppet after you try to administer her the potion and that he was not already a puppet.
When i first played the game, i never completed seluvis' quest and thus I didn't know ranni was aware. So from my perspective, after talking with gideon about seluvis' potion where he warns u not to give the potion, deciding to give it to nepheli, and then later finding seluvis as a puppet after discovering his room, it seemed like Gideons work. As revenge or punishment for meddling with nepheli, despite gideon effectively disowning nepheli.
Shit, I just posted above my thought's and this changed my god damn mind 2 min later lol (as I also thought, Gid may have turned Seluvis into a puppet). If you turn Nepheli, I have no doubt a dude known as "the all knowing" would find out and seek revenge (or just consider Seluvis a threat to him who can't exist). If you don't turn Nepheli, he still finds out as you give him the potion (to likely duplicate and use on Seluvis in return) and takes him out before he messes with his desire to be Elden Lord. I think Gideon is far more cruel and creepy to do with the "taste of your own medicine" treatment. Ronni more or less thinks (and isn't entirely wrong) that everyone is beneath her. She'd just have her puppy man or wise giant rip him to shreds and never think about it again. Gideon always takes out a new threat to his Crown by turning him into a puppet. This in turn releases Selvis's control of his puppets, and the weirdo Pidia has been taking care of and likely doing horrible humiliating things with (which would suggest the people are conscious but simply unable to control themselves) which results in them killing him the second they can control their own bodies. Pedia is a housekeeper so it would make sense that he would have a map to the Amber too. The description mentions how it's kinda messed up so Selvis could have easily made a copy and threw the old damaged one away (and house keeping found it)
There is also a message at the edge of the crater to Norton left by Blaidd. It mentions a traitor taken care of, I think blaidd did it and put him in the position of puppet as a mockery
I didn't know Pidia existed until a couple days ago. I completely missed it because I didn't help Seluvis so by the time I found him he just killed himself (or just killed by puppets?) as I jumped down.
This game is so full of stuff you can miss its really great. I really love that.
The weird question is that if Pidia is albinauric, then why he bleed red instead sliver? I could be wrong.
If he bleeds red this could validate Loretta as this kind of albinauric too, and maybe even gideon ofnir.
What gets me is Selvius's mask bearing the Radagon seal, and the Nox also willing becoming puppets through their Ash descriptions.
The Radagon seal is easily explained if you look at the Mask of Confidence (found in the inverted Carian Study Hall): The Preceptors (mages serving the Carian royal family) wear these masks on Radagon's orders.
It gives a new perspective on the 'Selivus' puppet. Do not touch.' message in his puppet room. Before the video I always thought it odd there was no puppet in place for the message to refer to but, going with the theory, he is the puppet.
I always thought Ranni murders Seluvis then does a little trolling by posing his corpse like a puppet but holy shit literally giving him a taste of his own medicine is genuinely amazing
She doesn’t mess about!
I believe, given the timeline when Seluvis dies , if he is a puppet then the puppeteer would be the preceptor we fight in the Carina Study Hall. This makes me question why Ranni would want Seluvis in her service in the first place…I see Seluvis being a puppet planted to spy on Ranni by an outside group.
Seluvis "dies" when you give Ranni the Fingerslayer Blade or the Amber Draught. Nothing to do with the Study Hall, except for the fact that if you gave the Fingerslayer Blade, Ranni gives you the Inverted Statue. But if you gave the Draught, there literally is no connection at all.
Though it is interesting that the Preceptor seems to be summoning puppets as well...
I believe that Pidia is much like us. Someone who finds out about Seluvis' deeds but Is also compelled to assist him and get his own puppets out of it.
Personally, i lean towards the idea that seluvus was his own man, and its a piece of evidence that isnt often brought up: blaidd. “Blaidd’s message left at Mistwood Ruins (before the player enters Nokron)
There’s a traitor taken care of. Onwards to Nokron, then. Go on, I’ll catch up”
Who is the traitor that has been taken care of? At this point in ranni’s questline, dariwill has long been dead, and you could have heared seluvus’ plan to make ranni a puppet. When you find the message, you can go and find seluvus in his final state, which leads me to believe that either blaidd figured out, or was told by ranni, of seluvus’ intentions to betray her and make her a puppet, and blaidd as her servant and shadowbound, took him out, probably giving him a taste of his own medicine rather than outright killing him. Thats when the puppets would have rebelled against pidas, as seluvu who was their original and true master, was now gone. His access of the maps could be from interest in puppetry himself, or somethings to trade and barter with seluvus for more puppets (as selevus only trades in star fragments for puppets, a map to them might also suffice), or maybe he has the locations from having served the carian royal family, which is entrenched in glinstone sorcery and astrology.
I did not expect that plot twist of Pedia being the true master mind
Seluvis was never blue and is only now in the "puppet position". At this point he's probably Ranni's puppet, but I don't think he was a puppet before that.
I love this theory because it is so in line with fromsofts formula for storytelling. I'm on new game plus and I did a great deal of exploring and watched a ton of youtube about quests etc during my first play through, and I cant believe I missed this awesomeness. This game keeps impressing me
Another interesting point (I don't know if somebody wrote about it here) is that you can't use weapon around Pidia, which makes it impossible to check the effect of his death on Seluvis. Most of important characters have this "safe aura". Is it a coincidence? Everything is possible. Cool video and theories, never think about this before.
I lean more towards Ranni being the one who kills Selivus, mostly because he will end up dead even if you progress through Ranni's quest without speaking to Selivus.
Seluvis's personal history could be Pidias personal history as he lives through his puppets. He may have known Neph and the othet guy just from being in the Puppet for so long. Great theory!
Love the shorter exploration videos like this.
I've had a playthrough where Pidia died before I even met Seluvis. It was before I started rannis quest. Seluvis remained alive until I the betrayal. I'm not sure how he could be controlled as a puppet by Pidia if this is able to happen.
Thank you. This makes a lot more sense than Pidia controlling Seluvis. I just wish there was a way I could work with Ranni to double cross Seluvis. It also maes sense why Ofnir would dispose of Seluvis' potion if you mention it to him.
My take is Seluvis and Pidia worked together. Pidia being the underling. Having a kill switch built into them so Pidia won't outlive him(I am assuming Seluvis believes Pidia can or is betraying him) is definitely something Seluvis would do. We know puppets are not always used as pliant servants. Sellen shows it is possible to have puppet bodies as one's own. So my conclusion is Seluvis had chosen this path as well and had booby trapped his puppets to turn on Pidia should he(Seluvis) become non-functional. Probably on the assumption that Pidia has/would sell him out. So why let the traitor outlive him?
Do you think iji was a puppet to Ranni? After his death, he sits there lifeless like a puppet in the same pose as the other puppets. Not to mention that he's continously burning instead of vanishing like the other trolls and enemies.
Didn't know about Pidia til about a week ago. Never got more than one step in the Selivus questline. Only reason I found him was because I was just trying to get as many spells and incantations as I could get, and he was one of the people I had to find.
Shit is just like in Caelid, with the Beastial Sanctum and its western cliffs. Never knew anything was down there until a week ago, looking for all trinkets and things of the like. And the one also in Caelid, I think by the minor Erdtree in easternmost Caelid, for the painting reward. That damn blue golem was no joke. Point is, even after playing it for a year, there was still so much for me to do and find. Thats pretty insane.