We Can't TRULY Hear Cliff Burton, Here's Why
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- Fellow metal scholars, one thing is undeniable: the bass volume in Metallica is not on par with what it should be. I know Jason's albums are even worse, but one CANNOT say that Cliff can be easily heard. One needs to resort to EQing, Plugins, turning the volume way up... and still, you wouldn't be able to hear Cliff note for note. In order to do that, you need to find the isolated tracks online or watch a live performance.
Therefore, we can philosophize on why Metallica decided to have this approach. The answers are personal and subjective here, but I'd like to share my views. What do you think about it? Do you think Cliff should've been mixed louder?
Please like and subscribe! :)
Link to Orion's TH-cam music channel, he's remixed many Metallica songs:
/ @orion3910
Here's my remix of Fight Fire With Fire (Loud Bass):
• Metallica - Fight Fire...
This is Fight Fire With Fire, with no Rhythm Guitars:
• Metallica - Fight Fire...
Here's Creeping Death (loud bass version):
• Metallica - Creeping D...
Here's Call of Ktulu done by Orion:
• Metallica - Ride The L...
#cliffburton #metallica #bass
We Can't TRULY Hear Cliff Burton, Here's Why
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That's one thing I always liked about Testaments album mixes. the bass was very prominent.
And overkill, megadeth.
And Maiden, of course.
@@dwaynestjohn5324 maybe it's a pick vs. fingerstyle thing? i can hear Ellefsons bass from a mile away in the mix because of the pick sound, it's very "clicky", Burtons bass is more of a rumble deep within, harder to hear sometimes.
Same with Anthrax
@@pfzt yeah, you usually need high fidelity equipment to listen all Cliff chords and floritures. Also equalize a bit.
Burton's fantastic ear for arranging his parts is what makes the original mixes an especially missed opportunity. His parts weren't competing with the guitars - they complemented them. Sometimes they galloped right along, reinforcing the rhythm guitar, and other times they danced around in both a rhythmic and harmonic sense. In most cases they were the most musical and melodic thing happening in the music at any given time. His passing not only robbed us of his own marvelous work, but may have robbed an entire genre of its potential from a bass standpoint.
You nailed it. Kevin!
yea he did
Absomutherfuckin....lutely!!!!!
That's a really good point,cliff definitely got his say bass wise in the mix,and the way he backs the rythem guitar is complementary not following every note ,but maybe a purposefull understating of his mammoth sound for the better of the project.
Orion, call of ktulu come to mind off the top of the head. Cliff could PLAY that's why theirs video like Cliff em all where he's doing solos that's sound like lead guitar and he's playing Kirk's part on for whom the bell tolls on the day of the green 1985. Check it out. He wasn't just a guy who couldn't play guitar so they put him on bass. No he was talented and day 1 that's why they recruited
Metallicas big sin was in NOT learning an important truth taught by Black Sabbath.
Sabbath really lead the way by putting the bass up on the front lines in the band, and demonstrating just how important the bass can be in adding depth, dimension and heaviness to the music.
Once I sat down and really started studying Metallica bass, I quickly realized Cliffs genius as a musician, and just how much gold he put into those songs that are just unnoticed in the mix.
(And I saw them on the Lightning tour in a nightclub!)
You're a fortune one for sure! How was the show? How was Cliffs?!There's an Metallica documentary where james talks about Sabbath, and how he felt Tommi's guitar led the band's sound, and what and impression it left on him, which really just surprised me in how much he seemingly doesn't regard bass at all.
I like how you can hear Geezer Butler’s bass, do you think they got this influence from the Beatles? Paul is a bass master.
@@timtapp5931 it was a funny kind of “one off” show.
They were the opening act for someone apparently, but did a headliner at this club that seats less than a thousand. Best $13 I’ve ever spent!
Cliff was the star of the show, just a complete monster!
It's not just Sabbath they failed to learn from. Sabbath were far more rooted in Blues than Metallica, so this oversight is understandable. But, by the time they were recording Ride the Lightning, they had FOUR Iron Maiden albums to learn from and see how Lead Bass can be used in an 80's Metal mix.
As a Metallica fan, it's infuriating to listen to Ktulu and the only clue you have to their being a bass solo (other than the sleevenotes) is the "Waaaaaaah!" bit you hear partway through the song. And my eye were blown wide open when I first heard the "...And Justice for Jason" mix of Blackened - it's so much richer
Was the bass mixed low live as well?
I've never realized there was bass on the intro to "Fight Fire With Fire" absolutely fascinating
A hidden gem for sure
yo Rookie posts
@@guitar_jero you probably play that's why your so righteous
@@codprocamp4690 I think You might be right here Yes . Easy to say for Bassplayers themselves , cause they ofcourse DO listen to all happening on Bass. Not like Vocalists i.e. who are more ,,interested,, in the Guitar Melody Lines as for combining the main melodic for the Vocal Lines . . . A Drummer though SHOULD listen to ALL whats done on Bass . Thats why I am Soooo surprised from statement starting at @0:57 that Lars and James were/are THE Heart and Foundation of Metallica , and Hard to ,,compete,, with for Cliff Burton ? ? I mean , Hey shouldn''t EVRYBODY be equal in this . And especialy Mr Ullrich should have formed a Tight Unity with His Bassplayer . . . just my opinion . .
The bass in fight fire with fire without guitars is amazing. Damn.
I really like how the bass is prominent in megadeth, testament and korn's albums. I think bass is really important, and If I were to have a band, I would have *v e r y* audible bass. It adds spice and variety I think!
For megadeth, its the reason ellefson played with a pick, because he can and has done finger style, but he's said he used a pick to cut through more
@@timgonzales2891 yeah, that's true.
@John H yeah I agree
I agree, I’d like to bring the bass to the front, the bass ties the band together and it adds to the overall “feel” of the song
@@Jakevrana cool buddy 🤘
That's what makes anthrax stand out .. very balanced mix and sound.. thanks for the cool Cliff sounds.
And this is what makes Metallica stand out. Lack of bass.
Nuclear assault too. Could always hear Dan.
@@Nexcroo The bass always seemed perfect to me on the first 3 Metallica albums, very clear when Cliff did fills, very subtle and complimentary when he was emphasizing phrases and then restating them audibly, as well as his accents, harmonies, and counterpoint.
His bass let you know it was there consciously, as well as subconsciously, which pulled you into the songs differently. I thought it was revolutionary really.
He also chose to use a slightly distorted tone under a lot of the rhythm sections, which added mids that the higher tonal range guitars didn't.
His slides always let you know the bass was there, but not spotlighting or drowning out anybody in the mix. It was very tasteful and interesting, unlike a lot the boring/predictable bass players.
Yeah. Frank Bello can rip that bass like few others can.
@@Nexcroo Afer Cliff.. FUCK Metallica.
As a bass player, I 100% approve of this video. Excellent job, sir!
As a fellow bassist, I whole heartedly agree.
As another fellow bass player, I too agree. Low end is the best end. 😎
@@Ksknight100 I'll give a big amen to that, brother bassist. 😎
me too
As a non-bass player i agree.
I'm gonna be honest, when it comes to Bass in Slayer, you could hear Tom pretty decently during the Metal Blade years. Although you have to feel the Bass rather than hear it on Show No Mercy (This is mostly because of how muffled and deep it is), you can hear it really clearly on Hell Awaits.
Rattlehead, you're spot on, and I think this happens 'cause the bands didn't have a say against the engineers' opinion back when they first started. That's probably why we hear Cliff loud and clear on Kill'Em All. With Slayer, I can hear Tom on Hell Awaits, indeed. On Reign in Blood, I can still hear but if it was louder i think it would've added more punch to the mix. That does not take from the fact that Reign in Blood is still among the top pantheon of Thrash albums, probably Top 5. Still, when you're a bass aficionado, the more the better, hehe ;) - thanks, dude!
The only album Tom really shines on bass is Diabolus in Musica. Definitely a bassy album
There is a big reason you can hear Toms bass; he the fckn lead singer! Tom is the front piece of the band and his bass is critical.
Great profile pick
Mercyful fate also have great bass. Awesome and it reminds me of black sabbath bass
Nope is the other way around, "Show No Mercy" is where you can spot easily the bass, from "Hell Awaits" onwards is barely audible besides some punctual songs and even some very singular sections where the bass is doing something basic, punchy and guitar unrelated (by this I mean Tom is not following the guitar riffs).
I was amazed hearing Roger Glover's isolated bass in Deep Purple's songs. What a bass player he was!
And still is.
Absolutely ... One time , By coincidence I stumbled upon the Isolated Bass on HighWay Star ... Geeeessssjjjjjjjjj talking about being Blown away . . .
Smoke on the Water, (in)famous for its guitar riff, has a great bass line.
Dang! Now i want all 3 Cliff era albums re-done like this and able to download/buy them from the band!
Check out @EchoBass TH-cam channel...
There's a live bootleg in 84 where Cliffs bass has a decent amount of volume. You could hear all the cool stuff he's doing in Call of Ktulu as well as his wah work in the chorus of Seek and Destroy. They were live on Howard Stern and you can hear Roberts bass on Master of Puppets especially the ballad part. I think someone in the Metallica camp has something against bass. You also must give credit to Bob Rock for the bass mix on the Black album.
Maybe not the same year you're thinking of but Call of Ktulu live at Lyceum Theatre, I promise you'll hear every bass note, almost like they played it so Cliffs bass is more prominent than the rest
Here's a link for Call of Ktulu live at Lyceum. th-cam.com/video/haGVkUOwNQ4/w-d-xo.html , I'll now search for Seek and Destoy
I have a hunch the person with something against bass is Lars.
That would be Lars, who was infinitely jealous of Cliff's influence on Kirk and James.
Fuck Bob Rock, and every Metallica album after Master of Puppets. AJFA was their mediocre transition from GREAT to SHIT. And it's been shit for the last thirty years.
Holy shit 😳 I never knew he was THAT good. As a bassist, I'd been told he was unreal. WOW, until now! Thank you!🙏👊
Megadeth featured Ellefson’s bass playing in the mix. Cliff was something of an anomaly in that style of music, not only a stellar bassist but a composer as well
As a 20 year bass player whom started playing because of cliff, I’m fortunate to be able to hear all of it.
as an avid listener of metallica i can actually differentiate the bass from the guitar but then again it could just be my minute attention to audio details
Thing is, you can hear what the bass does after 20 years of listening, studying and playing, not on the first listen as it should be
@@nonnodacciaio704 I don't know why people are taking discussion in all kinds of directions about this. There's only one reason we can't hear Cliff Burton's Bass. Black ice.
@@TheHorseshoePartyUK well damn then we should be able to hear it clearly in the first 3 albums, but guess what; we don't
Tool is a band that proves how important bass is to a bands sound.
Don’t forget Black Sabbath,
they really put the bass up on the front line, and seriously set the stage for future generations by demonstrating how important bass is to a bands heaviness and depth.
@@Daddy53751 Impossible to forget Sabbath. Geezer is a a bass king.
@@gunnerseven7724 you ain’t whistling Dixie!
I wonder how many millions of us heard him and said “DANG! I wanna do what he’s doing!”
(I gotta raise my hand on that one. I’m getting close to a half century with the bass, due to him)
@@Daddy53751 Geezer was one of Cliff's favorites!
@Kzed Watch out everyone here comes a troll.
Cannibal corpse’s album Tomb of the Mutilated is a great example of the bass shining through, Alex Webster adds so much beefiness to the riff while still being clearly heard. Same with Deicide.
Definitely. The bass cuts through on Deicide's Legion record well, too.
what's even crazier is Alex is doing all that he does finger style. insane talent
My fave is Autopsy's Severed Survival in that regard. Deicide was my first show back then with the Legion tour. I was a child and totally blown away but yh Legion sounded better than Deicide (which is still my fave).
bolt thrower's "those once loyal" as well. Jo Bench is a legend
I always felt that Iron Maiden arranged and mixed the bass quite well.
Because The bass player Steve Harris is in charge of mixing.. etc =) "up the irons"
@@TGSamantha091 Not in the beginning. It was more or less an accident that his bas was so forward in the mix. They just stuck with it (because it sounds good) after the first album. Guns N Roses is another band with the bass forward in the mix, same with Megadeth & Anthrax as well. Metallica just missed the memo, and it's their biggest weak point.
Dude! That call of the ctulu mix was great! Totally changed the dynamic of the song
Give this a listen to, it's almost all Cliff.
th-cam.com/video/haGVkUOwNQ4/w-d-xo.html
Changed the dynamic in a bad way. Too loud is actually worse than too soft, in these cases.
@@adameves5970 I disagree on that particular song. It sounded wicked. The other songs however were weaker examples to his point. I think they sounded appropriate with he bass so low in the mix.
Glad someone finally bought this up. As renowned and respected as Cliff is/was, it’s a struggle to hear him except for solo parts. Thought it was just me…
Cliff's bass is one of the main things I could always hear on the first 3 albums. If you you raise the bass levels, it makes the rest of the band sound like they're in a little can, very amateur, contained, rather than the full band sound. It's one of the things I'm seeing people repeat, but just doesn't match my experience. I lived through the release of these albums, which were very formative for me.
@@LRRPFco52 Yeah the bass right there if you know what you're hearing. Also if the bass was any louder, the rhythm guitar wouldn't have as much heavy crunch.
@@LRRPFco52 yes I agree. For example it's super easy to hear the booming bass in the intro to the track "ride the lightning"
The bass in _Anesthesia_ could have been louder.
I brought this up too a couple of months ago in a video you might enjoy. It discusses why midrange is so important to bass in a mix, and what happened culturally that I believe led to Metallica turning bass down. - th-cam.com/video/_mvsIzWgftE/w-d-xo.html
You are spot on my friend. The bass in Metallica mix-wise as-is basically supports James's rhythm guitar parts. Period. The drums are WAY to much in the mix on AJFA (except for Dyer's Eve for some reason), and Cliff had SO much more to offer bass-wise that you can't hear unless you listen to isolated bass tracks on TH-cam. Cliff should have been in the mix much more. I mean, the late 70's Scorpions albums you can hear the bass just fine. The albums would have been that much "better" sonically if they are were mixed in this way. Also, the "Garage Days" EP I thought was done very well...the guitars sound raw and live...AND you can hear the bass on most if not all tracks. Jason was another that had much more to offer but got caught up in the "mix" of things and his bass got "wasted" in the mix. Cliff was truly amazing and he's doing SO much more than what you can hear...which is barely audible in the mix. I mean, consider the amps and cabs he was using, he certainly would have been heard in the mix...it just wasn't properly mixed. PS: I saw them live in April of 1986 and sonically live I wish it was caught that way on tape. Thanks so much for this amazing and much needed video! ✌
hey Billy, thank you for sharing these stories, I agree that the late 70s were a good time for us, people who like to hear more bass-oriented mixes. Many of the NWOBHM albums feature great bass mixes: bands like Raven, Saxon, Angel Witch... btw, you were lucky to have seen them live! keep in touch, cheers!
The bass is definitely there and making a big difference in the mix. You don't need to isolate the track. It's adding low frequencies and the string noise or twang from Cliff's bass when he picks the strings with his fingers come through pretty well.
Drums are great on ajfa
@@patbateman6207 It is so hard to hear it most of the time but in ,some parts yes, it is audible I think.
@@hugonci9886 when I first started listening to Metallica 27 years ago I thought I couldn't really hear Cliff. Years later I started noticing the bass and realizing you can clearly hear it. A lot of the low end comes from the bass, and you can also heat Cliff slapping the strings with his fingers all over the album.
Heey dude, I noticed you mentioned my mix and thanks so much for the support. I followed your work a lot before starting my channel and it was one of the main inspirations to look for things related to Cliff's bass. Thanks for the recommendation, my friend!!
He's a true Peaky Blinder 😎
Hey Orion, thank you for stopping by! Congrats on your work and the effor you put into your craft. Let's keep celebrating Cliff however we can. Cheers, dude!
That’s not Cliff’s original bass-track on Ktulu.
I agree Call of Ktulu is a complete tragedy of a mix. I didn't even know that was going on in the background till I watched a video on it. MOP is mixed much better than RTL. The most frustrating part is they say they want the albums to reflect their live sound but the bass is usually turned way up live. The good thing is cliff always had a couple of stand out parts on all the albums.
The answer is what end use they were mixing for. In that era, most metal fans and music buyers in general were listening to music on boom boxes, often mono. So having a mix that translated to mono was very important. And bass was limited. To get bass and kick to come across in the mix was about adding higher low or lower mid frequencies, which worked great for some bands at the time. But in the case of Metallica, these frequencies were a big part of James' guitar tone and lars' kick, so over the years as they wanted more of themselves, you got less bass.
WHERE hasTHIS video been all my life??EXCELLENT🤟
Thx, Josh! :)
This is so good. I want to hear the entire album mixed like this.
thank you so much, dude! :)
Always loved the bass in Black Sabbath and early Ozzy solo stuff where it really does stick out. That’s what this reminds me of when you can actually hear cliff.
Wow, sucks to not have heard these amazing bass lines for 30+ years
so now Jason is not the only one...
And Justice For Cliff?
Awesome video. I feel Megadeth was the only band that provided bass guitar prominence in their mixes in those formative Years. Kudos to the architect and founder of thrash metal Dave Mustaine.
Holy crap! I’m a life-long Metallica fan, and I never heard that there is bass in the “Fight Fire with Fire” intro.
It totally changes how you experience the song :)
Omg...hearing his bass more prominent makes me love him even more. WHY was it lowered so much? He was so good!
It was the style of the time, a cultural shift away from the polish and big bottom of disco. I did a deep dive explaining why. here - th-cam.com/video/_mvsIzWgftE/w-d-xo.html
Greatvid.. I believe alot of the under production of bass was because James admitted Lars was not a great drummer on albums. They cut the bass down because it conflicted with the drums. In reality Cliff was more of a Geezer Butler on bass. He would of been heard more if the band was a three piece. He plays a rhythm guitar tone and also pulls a lead duty on songs. The man is still a beast. Thank you for this vid it preserves what Cliff was about.
I dont know if making the bass as loud as you did makes it sound better. But I definitely like that call of ctulu
What if it's a genuine mix at a live concert featuring Cliff? Watch this and you mostly likely won't come back. th-cam.com/video/haGVkUOwNQ4/w-d-xo.html
I hardly revisit the mentioned albums. But those you remastered are so much more interesting. Thanks a bunch! On a side note, I often prefer listening to bass covers on TH-cam rather than the originals because of this exact reason
Even in the power ballads (Fade to Black and Welcome Home (Sanitarium)) is kinda hard to hear to bass.
It's a shame, Cliff bass lines had amazing fills that aren't audible in the mixes like in the song Ride The Lighting and when the bass needs to shine like in Call of Ktulu, it doesn't because of how James and Lars wanted the mix in those songs... At least Cliff got some justice in Orion, but on most of the other songs is like he's in the shadows.
Good examples of how a bass volume should be is on Megadeth albums Peace Sells... But Who's Buying? (the original mix) or Anthrax album Among the Living, not too loud, not too low.
Youthanasia and Countdown to Extinction... Tastiest mix and bass tone of all time
It was in part because of James and Lars, but it was also cultural. There were a LOT of bands with NO low end at the time. I did a deep dive exploring what happened culturally at the time that led to that sound. - th-cam.com/video/_mvsIzWgftE/w-d-xo.html
WOW... MIND BLOWN! After all of these years.. That was amazing to hear. Thanks
Bass guitar sounds really change the feel of a song , I listen to Orion with enhanced bass over and over again
That's why I love bands like Cannibal Corpse so much. Alex really gets his share of the limelight
Great video and for the record I started playing bass because of Cliff, such an inspiration. His lines were so great, too bad they got buried, I blame Lars (ask Jason).
100% Lars. I’m sure I watched a clip where they specifically mix to obscure the bass, especially with Jason.
Every time I hear cliff I hear something new. God he was so amazing. I don’t think we’ve heard another metal bassist like him in almost 40 yrs. That section in fight fire with fire was insane. Can’t believe he composed that and then his parts after we’re just candy to listen to. Will be interesting compare the bass parts on AJFA, and hear what Jason contributed. Will show and shed light on their styles
Two other guys out of the big four, Frank Bello and Dave Ellefson are very talented also, Cliff was my fave but those two deserve attention and are legends in their own right
Jason Newsted was better don’t understand the hype over this guy. Listen to the blackened bass track.
@@jonathan.9402 I know Jason was good and could play his parts, but Cliff was on another level. I haven’t heard the isolated bass tracks for AJAF, so that’s why I want hear how Jason contributed. I don’t think Jason had the musical freedom that Cliff had to go up and down the neck and compliment what the others were playing like Cliff did. Did Jason contribute riffs? Sure he did but that’s different than being a savant.
@@jonathan.9402 lol. Sure.
Imagine learning these songs on bass from a tab book and listening along. "He's not playing any of this..."
Omg I know that all too well when I bought the tab books back in yhe day to learn all the songs ! I really had to fuck woth stereo eq to get it somewhat louder inches mix and use headphones. And still thinking I can't hear what's written very well. Also when I did play them as written the guys in the bands were very surprised that was Cliff's bass parts and love them! Such a shame it was buried so much. But that was the times back then
Sir!!! you have really done a justice here. Wow it’s amazing. I’ve never actually heard that much going on in some of those older songs. I knew there was stuff, but I could not hear some of the details you really brought out here until today.!!
Mick Hughes said they’re sound was a concept. To capture it is a work of art. And you touched on it in the video, the rhythm guitar and drums have always lived up on top and the rest is blended in somewhere .
It wasn't just that though. At the time, it was hard to find bands with bottom end in their mixes. It was all over. I explored all of that here if you're interested - th-cam.com/video/_mvsIzWgftE/w-d-xo.html
Cool!! These "bass-up-front" mixes are very interesting, thanks for this one 🤩👍
And: by the way that black&white photo of Cliff at 2'07" is shot by me 😉👍. That's from Saapasjalkarock, Pihtipudas, Finland. July 5th,1986.
You can hear cliffs bass on all albums…If he’s following the guitars you won’t notice it…if it’s taken out you’d notice the difference because it adds thickness to the part..when cliff is playing something different from the guitars or in between the guitars you hear it clear as day…0 issues with cliff era mixes
I was listening to Master of puppets with some ear buds, and listened really close during the verses and was able to hear cliffs bass, but of course not nearly as loud as I'd like it.
@@senditkevin I’m a bassist and love hearing some bass but the overall music and mix should be the most important
@@chrisbassartist4344 totally agree, there is a point where it is too quiet and too loud, depends on the style but i do think RTL and MOP could use with a slightly louder bass, not much, just like 30% louder or so. Prog metal and punk both seem to give more emphasis to bass than thrash. I heard somewhere that all Lars has in his In ears is James guitar, dunno if that's true. I don't play any instruments.
Naah. Listen to records from the 60s and 70s, bassists follow guitars most of the time but you still hear it. The mixing was crap, end of
@@paveantelic7876 you can’t compare 60’s and 70’s music to 80’s thrash…heavier guitars EQed in lower frequencies…also bassist in 60’s and 70’s era music played more independently from the guitars whereas in thrash for the most part the bass follows the guitars…the mix is good
Good God! When your remaster of FFWF cued up in my headphones, I was gobsmacked! Should I win a lottery, I’m going to request that you remaster these albums! Top-shelf work.
O youtuber "Orion" (5:50), é o meu amigo de infância, ele é Brasileiro e é um grande fã do Cliff Burton, fico feliz de ver meu amigo creditado em um de seus vídeos 🤟🤟
Obrigado Raí, eu respondi pra ele! Sucesso sempre, abraços
Obrigado, Alex! Obrigado pela resposta e pela grande qualidade de seus vídeos! Sucesso sempre, meu amigo! Abraços! 🤘🇧🇷
Bass always makes music better. Always!!! Especially if the sound is unique like on ride the lightning.
I've wondered this for years as well, thank you for the video and apt analysis.
I really appreciate the fact that you made this video. I have one answer...Lars, Lars, and Lars. He did it to Cliff, he did it to Jason, and now he's doing it to Trujillo. I truly believe that his ego gets in the way of making better records. Cliff was THE GUY that first made me love Metallica as a young teen. The bass thru distortion and wah were so different, and OMG that auburn hair would look like a tornado when he was banging. This is so sad, but needed to be addressed. I prefer my bass up front, loud and thumping. Lars seems to have a different view as to what makes a song sound good. Listen to their idols, Diamond Head. Same sound. I think he wanted them to sound just like Diamond Head, who are a great band, but even anthems like Am I Evil? sound so thin. I wish the first 4 albums were completely remixed with Cliff loud and up front leading the attack. The closest they got to a full, rich sound was Master. Then they went back even worse...AJFA is their most thin sounding album. It really bums me out to write all this but I'm glad you made the video.
#RIPCliff #AnesthesiaKtuluOrion
Well, partially disagree, they did it to Jason once. Once Bob Rock took over producing with TBA you could hear bass. Hardwired is real bass heavy so IDK what you mean by theyre doing it to Rob (we know what the issue was with DM)
If Rock had been given a shot to remaster the first 4 albums i think that would have been amazing.
@@BatFan1 you mean when a teeny bit of bass was added CUZ ROCK WAS PLAYING BASS IN THE STUDIO SESSIONS? OMG...Bob Rock destroyed what little of Metallica's original sound was left, commercialized their demos, made James sound like the Big Bad Wolf, etc, etc. Let's Thank God he DIDN'T record the 3 masterpiece albums plus AJFA. Dude I'm over 50. I've been listening to Metallica since 84. I've watched EVERYTHING behind the scenes, read every book, etc. I'm not saying Bob isn't a good producer, but Metallica should have stayed away. I can't say that with enough emphasis. And BTW they have been remastered with the bass up now. Even AJFA...There's one version called And Justice For Jason lol. To each his own though...but I still maintain it was Lars, and I respect your view, I'm not disrespecting you, I just disagree, and we can do that. I'm not here to argue with other fans. If you disagree, that's cool. I think the bottom line is that they were lost as a band when Cliff died, since he arranged the songs, melodies, and was the only trained musician in the band. The issue is why is the bass always down...it's Lars. We're listening to Cliff be turned down, Jason OBVIOUSLY was, and I don't hear a big change in Rob. But the overall sound took a nosedive and that can be from a million reasons...loss of Cliff, Dave's attack sound gone (he wrote alot more than he's credited for), age, the birth of "grunge", who knows
Kinda funny considering how shitty lars is on drums you'd think he'd want something to help him sound better like a good bass track
@@Diesel0807 EXACTLY bro! That's why I think it's his ego...he'd rather have those out of tune snares the dominant sound, along with James, than him and a bassist locking into a good groove. Never understood it
That's what I've always loved about bands like DRI,Testament,Rush,Kreator,Anthrax. Makes me wonder if the Moises app will be able to find cliffs bass guitar.
There's an interview with James where he discusses Cliff's personality. He didn't like being away from home and hated recording the 2 albums in Copenhagen. He would fly home earlier than the rest of the band for this reason. So I'd guess he would not be present for most of the mixing and possibly also for this reason his bass wasn't as prominent
Lars doesn't like loud bass, it interferes with hearing james' guitar. The producers should have balanced out the sound, not Lars.
Cool video,years ago I also noticed this too,that bass wasn't loud enough or cutting through the mix enough. I think it's because as you said people often expect loud guitars and drums in metal and that's it.
My good sir, this is something I've said to a friend of mine, fifteen years ago : bass should be mixed louder. It is such a great instrument that brings so much life and energy in a song that it's a shame to mix it lower than what it really deserve.
Cheers, be safe
his bass outside of particular passages is just meant to beef up the sound. he typically played in unison with the guitars. the exceptions are well known: bits of Orion, For Whom the Bell Tolls, Anesthesia, etc. but yeah, he def was mixed low. hehe
Your mixes are so much better. It's practically listenable.
holy shit i didn’t even know there was bass in the fight fire intro
I was listening to Alice Cooper's Welcome to my Nightmare recently and was surprised at how good the bass was, and how well mixed everything was. Worth another listen in good headphones for sure.
Dennis Dunaway did some amazing basswork on the early Alice Cooper albums.
Dennis Dunaway is a beast of a bassist.
I was fortunate to see cliff play twice with band, He was great.
I just subscribed to your channel. I really like what you have to say from a bass players perspective. Just to add, my daughter is a 17-year-old six string bass player and can also play every other instrument in the world and does amazing vocals. I'm so absolutely proud of her! She works at m&M's old studio In Ferndale Michigan. She is a sound engineer a producer and a featured artist. She's already done it all and gigs five nights a week. I got her her first few bases and one of them was a four string fretless from Japan. The first thing she played on it was I want you back from The Jackson 5. It blew me away and all the people that hurt her play it! I knew that was the instrument for her! Even though she can play French horn, piano, guitar, drums etc etc etc. I'm so unbelievably proud of her!
it's also a technology convention. that's why we bought eqs for our cars and made a big smile with the faders. we heard the bass!
If it hasn’t been mentioned yet there is also the fact that in this era, vinyl was still to be considered and to have that amount of bass in a mix could make the needle jump.
that's BS
While true I'm not sure how much this needed to be considered since Cliffs bass tone wasn't that bassy to begin with.
If that were true then why do 60s Motown records have bass mixed almost as high as the vocals on majority of releases? Yeah I just don't buy it. The fact is James and Lars mixed down the bass. When recording Ride The Lightning and Master of Puppets both Cliff and Kirk left the production after recording their parts and left the mixing up to James, Lars, the producer and engineers.
@@Bluestomiv We're talking about two completely different genres here, and Motown was mostly single-oriented, mixing and mastering a single is generally quite a different process than a full album. Singles were often cut loud and compressed so they would stand out more (since the average consumer was using crappy equipment) which did a number on the fidelity of the recording. Remember also that loud and audible bass doesn't necessarily mean tons of low end, the definition on bass guitar sits more towards the mids. Though I will agree the bass is lacking on RTL I think it's mostly fine on MOP, it sits surprisingly well for being a bass tone that occupies much of the same space that the guitars do.
I was right against the very front center of the stage with my buddies and two hot strippers from N. Carolina at the Ozzy Osbourne-Ultimate Sin/ Metallica-Master Of Puppets concert at The Civic Coliseum in Knoxville TN on July 31st, 1986. When Cliff did his bass solo, he came over and stood right Infront of us, ripped his black T-shirt off, threw it to us and then tore into Anesthesia, Pulling Teeth. Cliff was the most amazing bass player I have ever seen to this day. Live, his Aria Pro-II Bass put through those Ampeg Bass Cabinets that were only 20' away definitely didn't fall prey to James and Lars. 49 days later we all got the news that the life force of Metallica had died when Metallica's tour bus crashed in the Swiss Alps. While landing on its side, Cliff was partially thrown from his bunk, out of the opened window ending in Cliff being killed instantly as the bus landed on him. Somebody should put these albums out there with Cliff's bass tracks properly set into the mix. The guy was even more genius than we even realized.
One single answer to your ever fascinating question : E G O.
Their Highest paradox, as you highlighted so well, is that they had the Mastermind over doing them ( Cliff was a converted•to•Bass guitarist ) laying down Killer tracks, but their insecurities & testosterone driven Ego makes them mute the only Maestro of the band, the very one who crafted their actual sound, as well as all guitar harmonies & arrangements.
Sadly he was never able to put his foot down on that very issue before sending the mixes out.
Which must have been such an internal struggle in his mind, knowing he was highly allergic to b s ... and had such a pristine integrity. You should ask his sister, she would know.
Just like Jason, Cliff walked into an already existing band that already had two Bosses.
Cliff, the musician whose playing will forever be praised the most, yet heard the less. How ironic ?
Now imagine Gar on drums, Poland on lead guitar, with Het and Master Cliff ..... in my dreams 🤣
You’re completely right about the whole ego thing. It really is sad Cliff didn’t get to live into the years where they matured and toned down their massive egos. My only gripe is that Cliff didn’t start on guitar. He’s been a bassist since he began at age 13
@@2pigsTV ... Dig deeper my friend. ⛏ Cliff was a guitar player who oddly stwitched to bass. His sister I believe, in her long one on one interview, had also explained how his fascination & passion even drove him to customize the bass, using guitar pick-ups as extras, to craft a unique sound, to stand out more in the mix ( Anastasia almost isolated that unique sound ).
Yet despite his efforts, the men behind the man behind the mixer, decided otherwise for Ride & Puppets, the 2 best metal records of all time.
Cliff was a multi instrumentalist. He played piano growing up, until his mother sold their piano, and while he did play his classical guitar alot, he was also infatuated with bass. Connie presented the idea to combine guitar and bass into one, which kickstarted a very unique alchemy of bass playing for Cliff.
If Cliff wanted to, he could have switched to guitar, but I think he saw what a unique sound and space the bass guitar could occupy, and create, plus he playing guitar fave him a great understanding of the relationship between guitar and bass. Plus it helped expanded his compositional abilities.
His curse was that he was too creative for Metallica in the sense that the ideas he wanted to do were becoming incompatible with the band's sound. Kirk and James are on record talking about how Orion was originally an all bass song (starting at the middle section, with his lead bass harmonies, then closing with an epic bass solo), but lars vetoed it saying something like "you can't have a song that's all bass!". Even Kirk said it sounded more like a solo thing than Metallica, and would have sounded similar to the opening of damage inc, which is alot of layered bass harmonies played backwards. It was a big argument and eventually Orion mutated into what it became: a metallic variation of Cliff's idea.
@@timtapp5931 Exactly, so what is your point precisely here ?
Not true. James actually looked up to cliff tremendously. Why would you limit someone's potential who you look up to? Doesn't make sense right? So no you are wrong
Thank you! Somebody that puts into words what l think when listening to almost every metal album... Not only metallic
Thx, aeronbern!
Wow..been listening to those tracks for decades and - despite being a musician myself with a pretty good ear, if I say so myself - I never picked up on how insanely funky, complex and melodic those hidden bass lines were. I even thought Cliff was a bit 'over rated' at times based on the adulation he still receives. But now I appreciate better what a badass he was. Thanks for this!
That means your ears are not so good. Thank god now we can have those isolated bass track or bass boosted of Cliff the Jimi Hendrix of bass guitar
I just love cliffs intro for for whom the bells toll.
True legend
I like so much your loud bass mixes🤘🏻
It probably sounded great om studio monitors that can go really low. But you can only hear the tail end of the bass transient’s on our devices
That's another low key "fuck you" Dave Mustaine threw at them when he made Megadeth, he made SURE his bassist was loud and clear 🤘🤘🤘 specially with Peace sells in my opinion
It’s just the way it is. Glad they got more room for Rob’s bass nowadays. But that’s a different story of course. Thanx for the upload!
The reason is you don't know what you're listening to. The bass on RTL and MOP are very audible in the mix. Not insanely loud but definitely audible.
I bet to differ, but I respect your opinion, John. If you tell me Rush or Iron Maiden are bass-driven, I would agree in a heartbeat. Is the bass audible in Cliff-era Metallica? Sure, but not to the usual level most bands place their bass; besides, it's not easy to hear what Cliff is playing, if you want to learn his lines by ear. But we all have different ears and perspectives, it's all good! Thank you for commenting, all the best, dude!
barely lol.
barely lol.
@@alextamulis no problem, Alex. You're right we all have different perspectives. But if I sent you a mix of a song without the bass then I'm willing to bet your perspective would change. It's definitely not as loud as Maiden or Rush but it's loud enough to be hear without EQ or anything.
Very audible? Nope...it's impossible to follow the bassline through the entire track on any of those albums.
Excellent Commentary! They really should release all new mixes featuring BASS LINES!!!
1:50 Where I can download this wallpaper of cliff??
screenshot it bro
@@YourLocalLeadBassist you can't just screenshot it
the resolution sucks
Look up Fight Fire With Fire bass Loud by this same youtuber, he has the video with that wallpaper
here! www.deviantart.com/oocuckoo/art/Cliff-Burton-Ride-The-Lightning-474417216
Cliff was awesome...you can hear him in some songs.i always thought he played the bass like an electric guitar,his playing is stunning...RIP legend.
Bass is one of the thing that makes heavy metal "heavy" imo....
Those bass boost especially on the beginning of fight fire. It sounded awesome with the bass up!! No doubt
Unless it's a song specifically showcasing the bass, as in Orion or Anesthesia, I really never hear the bass in Metallica.
PS
This video is great, thank you sir.
Thank you, Fritz! \m/
the god that failled
For Whom The Bell Tolls!
@@tysonwastaken The black album as a whole is pretty bass heavy, especially the last few tracks. Jason really shined on that album. AJFA on the other hand...
I think having an audible bass in your track is most definitely a plus. However, i think a lot of music from that era of metal had bass lines that just were not meant to be heard, rather, felt.
Is cliff playing the riff in the beginning of who the bell tolls? So amazing how a bass can sound like that, even in call of klutu his solo was insane.
The version you did of creeping death i don’t like at all
same
The bass was TOO loud there, not balanced in the mix. I want to hear Cliff's bass more in Lightning and Puppets, but not quite that loud.
thanks for letting me know, Chris, I totally understand, my goal is to switch roles between guitars and bass so we can hear most bass notes, I understand this approach might be too much for most people, but again, I was trying to come up with a different perspective! Cheers
The Call Of Ktulu original mix hiding alot but I always heard it fine and it had a subliminal feel instead of a jamstyle musical journey. The bass was 4 accents on 1 riff and was subdued to maintain the riffage. GENIUS MIXING! GENIUS!
as a recording bassist guitarist drummer, I totally have done everything I can to have my bass more prominent in my mixes
Lars always hate bass since day one, on demo no life till leather cassette he wrote put bass down
I didn't know that and I truly don't understand why, damn it! I don't understand... anyhow, thanks for commenting, themusicfan21 :)
That means turn down the bass on the stereo, not the bass guitar.
@@johnp82 same shit he did on justice
@@alextamulis what I heard that fuck is playing bass drum I imagine
@@themusicfan2179 no. on Justice he turned down the bass guitar.
One band that turns this on its head is Faith No More, who pretty much used the bass as its lead instrument.
Can you remix ... And Justice For All? Also great video, I subbed to your channel.
Thank god my friends always let me keep my bass loud when we play together
Holy crap, the stuff we were missing.
I'm so glad that the path metal has been heading down for over a decade now (far longer in some bands' cases) is laid with nice, thick, high-quality bass pavers
Glad I stumbled upon this. I had no idea Cliff was doing all of that. I have a much better appreciation of him now. Thank you.
UNreal. YOu're mining Gold here. Your mixes are incredible, evoking an ENTIRELY new appreciation for the band. The clipping, all-levels-to-the-ceiling sonic approach that Metallica takes kills every inch of dynamics, reducing the band to a monotonous, monolithic, wall of sound. Contrast their aesthetic w/ Iron Maiden's which features Steve Harris' bass as an intrinsic element of their sound from the start.
you can hear it very well on master of puppets
Your Creeping Death remix sounds awesome man!
I'm off to listen to that whole playlist now 😁🤘
Oh man. I never even thought the intro to fight fire even had bass in it whatsoever and ive been listening to this for 38 years??? Gull damn man!!
Great video!
My intro to Metallica was “KEA” and the “cliff em all” vhs, and his live bass is such an important part of their live sound. It’s so pronounced in the classic lives. They released “official bootleg” audio of Cthulhu on a recent remastered album, and it wouldn’t be same without him there. He literally makes the song work. The finale “roar” he does with his bass live on that bootleg sent chills down my spine, and I should be used to it.
Makes no sense that he’s turned down on the records.
good to hear someone finally bring this up.
I was actually initially surprised when I found out how often and prominently Cliff is sited as "one of the greatest rock/metal bass players" seeing as, even as a huge Metallica fan and an amateur bassist myself, I could barely recall anything distinctive bass wise from Metallica (aside from Orion and the intro to For whom the Bell Tolls) because of how lost the bass always seemed to be in the mix.
Nothing beats the face-melting sonic attack of Pete Steele's bass sound on his Carnivore releases.
Wow that's the first time I ever really heard the bass with fight fire with fire intro and it sounds so much better.
Nirvana has inaudible bass too. Whenever I hear remixes where it's turned up, the music sounds so much better.
The bass is perfectly audible on Nirvana records. Definitely not an example of inaudible bass.
Absolutely... Bass remix is so much better.Being in bands and learning Metallica tunes by ear was difficult.hearing these remixes of Cliff's Bass work makes me realize how wrong I was on some tunes.Was basically playing guitar parts on bass.