1) Drakes give too much buffs making it too important to contest it 2) Yuumi getting deleted unironically opened up the gates of hell with the 2 adc botlane meta, with yuumi around and other enchantresses, they disabled lvl kill potentials 3) Top carries need enchantresses to properly function, gwen, olaf, and the likes need proper supports and thats why they've taken a backseat recently, most of their weaknesses are covered by enchanter supports. 4) Because of the durability patch, theres very little demand for assasins that are really good at countering adcs
as an Assasing jgl player, it has become insanely hard to even kill bot lane. I can go top and die to darius/illaoi with my top laner, fail a gank on mid to and incredible safe mid laner (veigar or anyone with zhonya). dont even think about 1v1 amumu, he is tankier than any assasin and deals more burst damage. Enemy adc deletes you if ur ccd for 1 sec by support or your bot lanes is a little bit slow with following the gank or your adc decided "i will let them push so u can gank, but when you gank i need to farm the minions that have been stacking up". And any enchanter support usually has zhonya in runes, so unlikly to kill them when you spend your 1 mobility spell to gap close and now the flash and go golden under tower. And now you 5 camps behind, enemy has herald and they say jgl diff
@@motivationenjoyer9830 I remember getting outdamaged as jinx against a nautilus with thornmail, tanky items are honestly the worst balanced in the game as of recently (before mythic changes)
League of Legends from the POV of an ADC: As an ADC I am the Protagonists Supports are my Sidekicks Midlaners are my Antagonists Junglers are the Directors And Toplaners exist for comedic relief
AD Marksmans are receiving constant item buffs mainly because of botlane mains that can't proper itemize their champions, in nowadays with state of league in form of IE 40% passive etc., we need to adapt, we received so many signs, we need to unleash true might of Forbidden Azir Technics, Steel-Feather Tankzir to be resistant for their damage and Ultimate Sun God Kraken Slayer Azir to take revenge on them by their weapon.
Honestly I feel like RoA-Seraphs-FH-FoN with Conqueror could be a quite strong Tankzir build provided you get through the early game. Unfortunately you won't be able to get Abyssal Mask alongside RoA because you're only allowed to have one item with their passive.
Honestly I feel like another reason is that the ADC community is just incredibly vocal and entitled and unlike toplaners who have been talking to a wall for like 7 or 8 years now Riot continues to pander to them. We have been in a botlane meta ever since Riot replaced the old Drake that only gave gold with the elemental ones, even when ADC as a role was supposedly "weak" yet ADC mains won't shut up until they can 1v1 a Zed or Jax on even footing. The only shakeup of any significance has been the release of Bel'Veth due to her insane synergy with Rift Herald. And the craziest thing of all is that Riot has literally said that it's not ok for skirmishers to come fully online with a mythic + Deaths' Dance core (which I agree with by the way) while they've now deliberately given marksmen access to the same shenanigans with mythic + IE/ Navori. Either give every champion class the same privilege or none.
the only problem on top lane is when the 3 sisters (irelia riven and camile) become so strong that nothing and no one can kill them, other then that all other toplanes survives only with willpower and the thirst for botlane blood.
It still feels the same!! Even after Patch 13.11. Traditional ADCs like Jinx or Caitlyn have super iffy itemisation since the mythic change, which is a topic by itself (IE is just really bad as a mythic with a shit item path and high cost that only provides raw stats), but Galeforce, Triforce and Guinsoo’s (on champs with some kind of AP scaling) are all pretty overturned. So many games just come down to Zeri gets fed or Jhin gets fed or Kog’Maw gets his 1 item Thanos spike. And they’re near the drake so yeah good luck getting those massive stat buffs. I’m not saying a fed ADC is unbeatable but playing a solo laner feels fucking awful this season because so much power is in the bot lane. Less so in mid because you can more easily impact the bot lane fights but… even then. I don’t know what could be done to address but solo laning feels awful in S13 comparatively.
@@fitmotheyapNot really, enchanters have to hit cc and poke to be useful they can't just shield once or heal once and carry a teamfight unless the enemy is really bad, millio and yuumi are the only exception here they are really braindead though you won't win a teamfight if you only click 1 spell lol, you could however also say the same about engage supports they hit 1 spell and the others are a guaranteed hit while also doing like 400-700 dmg with a full spell rotation.
@@letsplaygmilio, yuumi, LULu, Zona, Zoraka, Karma(yeah , karma kan miss her Q, but she s 2,5 k hp with 3 items , healing for 600 with every W, rooting you for 1,5 s per 6 s) janna is.... Janna , she feels so useless when a braindamage player pilot her, but this guy will still have 53wr And then there is not an enchanter as peak of cancer in support meta It is a Rell - the iron maiden, undodgeable cc chain for 4,5 seconds every 7
@@lkar4ikRell is not an enchanter bro, she is a tank-engage support, tho with Riot's rework, she feels way too easy than before. Seriously, I enjoyed playing old Rell, and as much as I like the fact that she has normal ats and movement speed now, I hate that she is now getting too much hate thanks to a lazy and unnecesary rework by riot.
It's always gonna be either carry top that aren't kited/madmen splitpushers or it's gonna be an unkillable frontline to support even furthermore the ADC (Sion, Ornn, Malphite, and whatnot)
I've had games in toplane where I go 0/0/0 at 14 minutes (when I don't have to protect my plates anymore and can finally roam) and my botlane is already knocking on enemy inhibitors.
This problem honestly started in every lanes and this is largely due to the item rework that happened two years ago as well. First item has become such a stupidly huge power spike for every champion. In the past you had some champions that went online at 3 items, some at two items, and some even had to wait as far as 4 items before they became relevant. Since the introduction of mythics and item changes, almost every champion becomes an immediate threat at their first item. Once you have your first item you can just repetitively kill your lane opponent and play as aggressively as you want.
I want to echo a similar sentiment. "Attack Damage Carry" role has always been the most important role. it's literally in the name. the main difference is that their agency is no longer gated by the 3-item spike.
@@thefance4708 It's something i noticed Riot has purposefully and obviously been trying to remove from the game. They want to remove "power spikes" as a term all together. There is no longer such a thing as "mid game" or "late game champions". Just "hey i have my first item now, I now do things"
@@madmaxiemartialartsnerd485 I first noticed shortly after the mythic-system debutted. Between zeal items being garbage, tank items being garbage, and Riot's emphasis on rushing overstatted mythics, I concluded that Riot must be trying to flatten polynomial power-curves. I believe it's because "every role must have equal agency at each stage of the match" feels vaguely egalitarian, and because "ooga-booga me smorc" is more fun than playing tactfully and patiently. Which has had the predictable result of ADC's having their cake and eating it too. As I told a friend: > If players want to play an ADC with more earlygame agency, that already exists. They can queue toplane and play Urgot. So long as Riot continues to force everyone's agency to be perfectly equal, the game's balance will continue to be distorted.
@@thefance4708 "Riot must be trying to flatten polynomial power-curves. I believe it's because "every role must have equal agency at each stage of the match" feels vaguely egalitarian"' so well said. id add that the game is too formulaic. the drake every fixed 5 mins, means theres going to be a fight. that sets up a clear structure to every game. it feels like every game plays the same script. id add more randomness to the game, with only a 15 second heads-up about the drake respawning or maybe add more enemies into the baron pit. or expand the alcove with some sort of a general collectible buff, that works like a capture point you need to contest. other games and other MOBAs have tried this and it has worked. secondly, id add that we have not gotten anything new to the game. a lot of it has just been rehashing of items or drakes. very little actually NEW has been added.
imo a lot of their power is in LDR right now. Like, Cait with gale + IE can headshot me for 300 crit when I'm playing Sion with Heartsteel + Sunfire, then I build randuins, they build LDR, suddenly I get crit for 600 non-headshot? LDR's passive is incredibly, monstrously overturned.
And yet if you *don't* build it, Sion can just walk up to Cait while she tickles him from afar and kill her under tower despite any amount of kiting she does. I'm sure you've seen the innumerable amount of clips where the ADC doesn't have LDR and mignt as well be healing the tank they're shooting at.
Main ADC i confirm what @ProSharpshooter said, LDR it's the item that makes and ADC the role they said It was, an antitank, it's One of the most broken items, so broken that of you don't have One you are trolling, i Say debuff the passive and put like 15% more damage against tanks(so 15% and not 25%) on LDR and 10% on grevious
@@freze994Adc was never meant to be anti tank but a class that tries to kite and kill safely from afar. They are not even called "ad carries" that is just a term the community invented. They are marksmen and theh are nlt supposed to 1 v 1 anyone other than other marksmen or weaker sups. The class was created with a sup in mind to help them being useful
its because adcs are broken, they scale too well and if one side gets ahead its almost imposible to kill the other side without jg help. there is no outplay potential, there is just utility and raw damage, raw damage the losing side will lack so they will be more prone to die again and seal the game.
Lifesteal items need to be removed and healing should just be in champions kits only. An ADC that gets ahead and builds BT, Shieldbow, Bork and stands there healing 300 per auto attack and becomes a super tank.
I wouldnt say it's useless, unless the ennemy botlane is giga fed, any top laners destroy an adc in a 1v1. Thought i have to admit after 20 minutes it becomes much more difficult when teamfights starts.
Useless is a strong word, but it does feel more difficult to impact the game as a top laner. It's part of the reason why if I'm ever top, I'll only play Shen and try to ult as often as possible around the map
the problem seems to concentrate in two of the following aspects 1. 99% of toplaners reach their spike at 1/2 items or on their way to the second item, but when they usually hit these spikes you still have laning phase objectives going on to prohibit you from getting outside your lane and impact the game, because then the enemy top will just get platings, the whole tower if past 14, and 3 free waves of farm and maybe your krugs 2. but even though toplaners are stronger early and in skirmishes the only times they get to group in their respective lane are in heralds, usually given up early if one of the laners or both top/jg have advantages (600 gold in items is massive early) and of very rare occurrence (2 times in 20 mins), and by the time your adc goes mid in mid game you'll probably be splitting bot, miles away from baron 3. when the lane phase problem described in 1. is finally over and you're more free to roam the map, you'll already be in your third item, when damage melee toplaners get comparatively weaker than the other players, that are not only getting spiked on third but also being permanent presences in objectives and teamfights, that is, adc third item like bf sword giving them whopping 70 ad and 60% crit or guinsoo users hitting the sweet spot of attack speed and 50/50 damage, and midlaners getting rabaddons/ROA/seraphs/zonhyas done and if the enemy jungler is a heavy damage carry one or assassin he'll still always be more useful than you on third item it seems like a perennial inherent problem of the top lane magnified by the adc meta and power of jg
one thing, the gold advantage is not 600 from two kills bot, its 900 because of the 150 assist gold, making ganking bot triple the worth of mid or bot, this besides putting the most frail person on the team just a little bit behind making them considerably more squish relative to mages and assassins damage
Another problem is that Toplane and it's champions are so snowball(Y) that the first jungler that has half a neuron and does 1 single successful gank the lane will spiral out of control because the enemy toplaner got 300+ 1 or 2 plates plus 1~2 waves on you. So now all the jungler has to do is spam gank botlane and the game is over.
It still is, and the fun thing is, playing adc in mid sometimes is even better than playing actual midlane champions (fucking Tristana), and the fact that Shiv is at least 200G cheaper than most mage Mythics while they also need to rush a full boot against Demolish Tris while this mtfk can casually rush Shiv 1st item is the icing on the cake.
tbh, the problem is the difference between regions, in asia they know how to play with a toplaner when he's ahead that means peels him or help him to reach carrys in others regions adcs and mids can't support the fact that a top carry the game for them, so they play extremly poorly or int, because they faced this situation not a lot or have mental problems. A good top that can do a perfect game can have a ton of impact but not like as a botlane and it's not common so people don't know how to play around them. When bruisers was strong af 2 seasons ago *or 3? i forget* they were unstopable, i think top and bruisers are balanced but people are dumb as bricks, maybe i would change my mind when i reach gm in this second split
Dude.... I'm looking at this thinking how he's going to mention all the ADC buffs lately, 3 minutes in and he mentiones "buffed dragons recently". Only then I realized this video is 5 months old. My sweet summer child, you haven't seen even the beginning of the botlane meta when the video was created. :D
I totally agree with this, It's why I only really play hard scale champions as support like senna bard and support, because as long as we can keep holding out, I will out scale them. I've even been playing some veigar in support just using the current mid lane fs runes just to make up for when my adc really sucks.
Whichever jungler ganks bot more wins the game. It's that simple. That's why you see junglers lvl 2 ganking bot, because it's such a free win if you do.
I've been playing top lane for years and the current state of it sucks. Every game some bullshit vayne, akshan or any ranged mf comes to enemy top or some fiora camille riven OTP freak pops out and shit into your laning, which is probably the only phase of the game you'll enjoy as a top laner. There is no more Darius, Sett or other "Kings of the Top Lane" Also not to mention junglers just ghost your lane (most of the time your jungler🗿) and some doesn't even come to top side jungle to even clear it. It is just crazy they only come and go around mid and bot. Most of them doesn't even take rhe dragons. You can get the soul around 20 mins. but in most of the matches when the clock hits the 20 mins you'll probably see one or two drakes has been slain. Just by one gank they can have a non stop endless slaughtering monster coming down from top lane to dominate the whole game and butcher the whole enemy with it's sore hands but no they can't afford any shit to come top lane. 💀💀💀 TH-camrs also doesn't help in this situation. When someone opens up a champ or jungle guide most of the youtubers just tell them play bot and don't give a fuck about top lane. It is just sad. But hey man thank you for making people realise there is a lane called "Top" 🗿
Sololaners rely heavily on their kits. Adcs don't need much of their kits, just aa. So whoever gets ahead, it's almost impossible for the other to outplay and reverse.
I recently played versus a Kog'Maw - Tristana. The furry fuck would just jump in, do 75% my health and the dog would just sheenze on me and I'll die. Sure, the midriff demon and I effectively traded kills, but the void dog had 7 kills before 10 minutes. Tristana went 2/8, We FF15'd. I fucking hate the bot lane so fucking much; everytime I get put there a dog gets punted in the groin and an angel gets its wings brutally wielded to its back. However, thank you for explaining why I always go 0/20 when I play bot lane. The information'll at least dull the pain.
Hey man, i haven't heard from you about the new azir changes in patch 13.4. Do you think those buffs/nerfs are gonna make him weak or is he still at the same level he used to be before?
I think he's a tad weaker in solo queue, but it equalized at level 9, and it's a net buff from level 9 onwards. It's weird that it doesn't affect pro play as much as solo queue though. They don't need to get kills, so they can conserve their mana better, meanwhile trying to do the classic level 4 all-in will be harder than ever for solo. Might make a video on it to elaborate further, but I personally think the nerfs are mostly right, the compensation buffs don't make much sense
ADC as a role isn't safe. Out side of Ezreal, there's not real safe adc pick. When it comes to mids, they have so much range or fairly long range cc that combos like Arhi that once they cc you they burst and leave. Jinx? You slow them then just watch as they walk away. ADCs rarely have a stun out side of ashe's ult and having trash cc means any tank or bruiser can free kill them. They really should have easy to hit roots that mids get to abuse to hell. It's honestly not fair how much cc mids get to have over adcs.
ADCs do have some picks with a lot of safety, Varus has an easy to land root on a relatively low cooldown for an ult, Jhin lays down traps and makes it hard to get ganks off, then is really good at running away with Stormrazor, you did mention Ashe, and there's also Tristana with her giant dash that can be buffered through CC. The reason why ADCs don't have as much CC as mid laners is that they don't need it to land their damage. Mages need to root or stun you to guarantee their combo, ADCs have mostly point and click damage, so their CC can be held for self-peel
dont forget that adc's are the only class/roole in the game that STILL dies to a wet fart, and is the second most immobile class in the game, behind enchanters. So you have a squishy immobile, in a 2v2 lane, possibly even 3v2 or 3v3, in league 2023. idk what you want jinx to do into naut, draven, kayn being in her lane and the crank support chilling mid.
ADC isn't necessarily the least mobile champion in a given match. Jinx and Kog are some of the most defenceless marksmen in the game, but then Kai'Sa, Vayne, Lucian and Ezreal have tools to keep them from being a bag of gold, even Jhin is good at avoiding ganks and stuff with traps and lots of movement speed The main point is that if one ADC is a Jinx left to fend for herself in a 1v3, the enemy team will play for the bot lane to get the Draven ahead as hard as possible. That's what the team gets for not protecting Jinx early, because if they did, she could easily become the main carry
@minimoYT id say overall adcs are the second least mobile. Sure you have the exceptions like vayne and lucien after navori. But overall they arent crazy mobile. Even ezreal is dealing with his e having actual cooldowns until late game. As for avoiding ganks, there isnt much you can do when you're under turret, which you will be in 2v1 situations. Yes jhin is amazing as preventing ganks by placing his traps by the entrance to the lane near by river, but under the turret, which is where he will be if he is 2v1 he's almost entirely defenceless.
@@einjharrelracai don’t get your point? His point was adc’s are so significant to the point that the game becomes less of a 5v5 and more like 4 bodyguards and an adc
@justanordinaryguy6568 because that isnt what is happening. Botlane has just become a sack of 600 gold for the midlaners and junglers go beat the gold out of, because they are the easiest targets. Also, this is about roaming supports and how adcs are suppose to survive.
what we can see is that the apc part was wrong, Karthus, Veigar, Ziggs are still very strong in bot lane, Ziggs/Veigar especially in low elo. There is just to much of a benefit for them to play with a support. But i get the feeling you are describing. It feels realy shitty to play a wining or maybe even top lane game and then get destoyed by a completly fed ADC.
I think Karthus is more of an outlier, Veigar and Ziggs are low risk, low reward picks compared to normal marksmen, but Karthus has the advantage of being able to catch waves on death, and bringing actual sustained DPS that other mages usually lack, especially since Veigar is meant for burst, and Ziggs Q isn't the easiest to land consistently. Their win rates are mega high because they're often picked in situations where they're exactly right for that match, because if they aren't, a regular adc would be picked instead. If they were picked as often as marksmen, their win rate would probably stick around 50% or 51%. Just my 2 cents, though
@@minimoYT fair point. but imho champs like veigar have a far easier time scaling in bot lane, where they are protected by a support and ganked more reguarly as in mid lane. Ziggs on the other hand, especially in low elo can just throw his q on the backline minions, after 1-2 items straight one shotting them and also deal a chunk of damage to the adc/support because the positioning in bronze-gold is not that good. in the state the game is right now, I dont think we will see APCs disappering. With all the cheese range picks top (often ADCs) my guess is that they will become a staple in the future, even more then now IF there is no other drastic change from Riot.
alongside I found your channel beacuse of your mage item video. right now im binge watching your content and I really appreciate it good job keep it on!
Personally, Doran's Ring with 2 healing pots, no matter what. You don't have enough mana problems nor scaling to start tear, and Corrupting Pot feels underwhelming
Then the ADC and support would just go top, bot becomes a solo lane. The only difference is how plates work before 5 minutes, which would only make the solo matchup more volatile, and the duo a little less
Thanks to all this changes now top builds are way more damage-oriented, supports are 90% of the time champions that can dish out more damage as possible (only time you see a pure tank supp with engage it's bc top has a damage oriented build or a ranged one, if even one on the squad is tanky the supp goes for more damage) mid got tristana incident XD and top we are seeing ranged champs if not only normally but also if bot goes for an ap mage in the adc role in any form or shape, meta now it's just damage, damage and damage. First item it has to be pure damage, 90% of the time. Snow ball now it's even more important
I think part of the problem is, they are trying to balance a role, and champions, and items, in a lane where all their gold and xp is being leeched by another player, and trying to keep them as competitive as everyone else. Simple solution, make support items prevent you from leeching gold and xp. All 3 lanes get the same amount at the same time. Bot lane doesnt get 1 tapped by other lanes due to being down 2 or 3 levels and items. And its far easier to balance. To prevent abuse, make only 1 support item allowed to be purchased on a team at a time. Nobody feels underwhelming if they just play decently. I feel like they are struggling to make a role thats always down gold and xp feel strong but not be broken or useless and they cant figure it out.
@@iMaxBlazer same as they already do? I didnt say anywhere to change that. They would earn gold the same as they already do. Maybe make it last infinitely instead of capping at 1K, and instead of getting half XP when standing near minions, and draining half from your carry, the support item makes you both get the full amount. That way when its team fight time, everyone is level 10 or whatever at the same time and all relatively equal scale in power. No more trying to balance one lane and two roles while being way down compared to the other two.
Crit items are just overtuned. I build them top mid or even jungle if my champion can since they are busted. Ever seen Jayce press W and instantly send 3x1k DMG your way?... Is not whole point of Yas and Yone power spike the fact that they can build already insane crit items super effectively?
If u don’t enjoy the state of the game u can always just go outside, go play another game, do other things. People complain and complain every season when there role is not good it’s been like that for years. Also A lot of people say the current state of the game is balanced right now people only complain because they only remember there bad experiences.
I do still enjoy the game, but I am actually following that advice and playing other games along with Arena. Most people don’t complain because they hate League, but because they want to see it improve
For me it was shitty to play support with someone because i see the enemy support do something wrong, i go in, stun/knockups/pull, whatever! What resulted in my adc saying "thats the wrong person". I understand that the adc is more important to kill, but isnt it more important to stop anybody overall?
It depends on the support and the state of the game. Early on, you can jump on the support no problem, later, it depends. Usually if a tank support messes up, you can force an engage on their adc instead, and if a support like Soraka mispositions, you actually have to focus her, otherwise you have to kill the enemy team five times over
This is my take on it: Duo botlane needs to die a fiery death: 1. You already pointed out how snowbally that lane is (for the other players on the map) 2. You also made a point in that a tanky solo laner in bot would be able to outsustain and play safe and later outscale the enemy adc (think a fed cho'gath or mundo vs an adc thats behind) You are pointing out something ive already discussed at length with my league friends: Currently toplane is the "boring" lane where you have to be patient for something to happen. Well, what if that patient lane became botlane and now theres a solo tank in botlane outsustaining the poke and all-ins of the duo botlane. 3. Why botlane sucks: Well a myriad of reasons, you also pointed out how an adc will just never outkite a midlaner assasin or fighter and altho I think this is part of the problem, the elephant in room is the xp difference. and this is the MAIN reason why specificly DUO botlane needs to die, its been tried and tested and been the weak point of the meta for who knows how long. Ofcourse its the botlane/supp duo lane who ints their ass off. Cause they are behind on xp from the start. Shared xp lanes is if not the reason why league is so snowbally right now its a huge factor. The solution?: I dont know, but I think tilterella with his invade tp smite shenanigans might be onto something, what if we had 2 junglers and invading and fighting for jungle became more of a focus in the game, league is after all sortof a game of domination (if anyone plays fps they know domination is a game mode where you control parts of the map and win)
This is the kind of stuff I wish was tested on the PBE, just these outlandish suggestions that would turn the game upside down, would be fun to see in action even if it never comes to live servers
@@minimoYT I think its the reluctance to try this sort of thing out that causes things to improve so slowly. I understand the reluctance cause every change costs money but the thing is it wouldnt even need to be big changes. But I completely agree that PBE would be a great testing ground for this sortof thing to be tried out.
as a someone who plays mlbb along with league, i just love how ml handles supports their starting item was a mask, but now it's just regular boots with the passive that mask had: support doesn't get gold and exp from minions until the passive is stacked (it's usually stacked midgame) this makes supports be not attached to any lane and do multiple options 1) stay with the jungler, leash his camps, cover from invades or invade with him 2) help midlaner getting prio for skirmishes/invades 3) freely rotate to any sidelane to cover or gank it (solo or with jg/mid) once stacked, you have a special effect unlocked depending on what type of passive you picked: 1) first one provides you and your nearby teammates semi-invisibility (enemy can't see them on minimap, use point and click abilities or autos, but their outlines are actually visible) 2) burst heal on any healing/shielding ability (it has cooldown) 3) burst damage on the low hp target
there used to be a permanent game-mode called "Dominion", which featured 5 skarner-themed spires distributed in a ring. the point of the game was to control the spires. it was eventually axed by riot because not enough players, and because botting by account scalpers was rampant.
It's weird because, as an ADC, the game is actually unplayable if your solo-laners are losing. I've had too many games where my top and mid have double-digit deaths pre-25, jungler trying his hardest to salvage the losing solo-lanes for some fucking reason instead of helping US (the WINNING BOT-LANE), and beyond that it's just impossible to carry as an ADC.
I get that, ADC in solo queue doesn't give you agency, I feel it in my bones since I only play Jhin in the bot lane. Like, when played around, the role is way too strong, but if left to fend by yourself, you can't do much
Mostly it's tower plating, plates in mid and top take reduced damage before 5 minutes, but not in bot lane, so an ADC with prio can take plates much earlier. That's also combined with dragons being bot, so at 5 minutes, they also become more important, since Herald takes longer to spawn
historically, the logic behind the lanes went like this: A) ADC's and toplane are in the long lanes because they can run down their opponents with autoattacks. B) mages/assassins are put in the short lane because they can burst/poke then retreat to tower without getting rundown. C) supports babysit the ADC, because ADC's need gold more than xp. babysitting the ADC guarantees the ADC can farm gold safely at the cost of a ~40% xp tax. D) the ADC/support duo goes botlane to contest drag. At some point, Riot added Rift Herald in order to make toplane feel as impactful as botlane. but this actually resulted in a laneswap meta in proplay, where the duolane often went topside. Which Riot didn't like, so they made botlane tower easier to break in order to incentivize the duolane to go back botlane.
As someone who doesn’t follow meta, I focus early rifts over first 2 dragons so I’m actually rarely not but I also don’t jng but when I do I focus topside usually or what ever the game offers 😊
Maby this is a elo problem? Im gold 1 and i always feel like it barely matters wether adc wins or not. As jungler or top Im always stronger and can just oneshot combo or tank all adc damage. It do be true about the dragons tho, those are what really matter for the game
In higher elos, bot lane does become more important, but it doesn't need to be that high, even in high plat/low emerald, most games are decided by which bot lane got the most jungle support
dude i was watching your video like i watch any podcast, just listening to it and doing something else, then you said "8 or 80", as a brazilian i had an instantly neuron activation lmao, i was like "wait what who says that besides brazilians?", then i looked at the screen and saw that you put a note on that" now the question is, are you brazilian? (just being curious here nothing else)
@@minimoYTlegal mano, ótimo conteúdo, é difícil ver conteúdo com essa qualidade em canais brasileiros, esse é até um dos motivos de eu consumir vídeos gringos quando se trata de lol continue assim canal mt bom👍🏻
The new meta is going Yumi, or other support top, and then just stop going top after the first buy, cause most top laners can't push towers, and even if they do you get small benefit in comparison to just 2 man ganking enemy jungle or mid, so they can roam. Top lane is like super irrelevant now, save for few cases.
i am currently renekton vs riven getting stomped to shit... by the kindread jungle and annie support... which means my teams win cause they arnt focusing bot lane... what a shit game.
@@minimoYT Eita, fiquei na dúvida pq usou a expressão oito ou oitenta, mas vi que teu LoL é todo em inglês, porém tem vários amigos com nick de brasileiro, me bugou. Se for brasileiro mesmo tem um inglês muito bom e conteúdo mt bom tbm!
I genuinenly think that if riot make the game a 4v4, changing adcs so they can stay alone with no problem (but obviosly, with less dps or something) and making all non-supp champs unplayable in jg (due to thigs like they dont dealing damage to jg camps) everyone would be happier and every game more fair. Think about it, one think that you didnt point in your video is the filled thing, an autofilled adc would be trash, but if they get feed and have a good team will carry anyways, if the game is even, the autofilled adc will clarely lose the game. Now, the real problem, the autofilled supps, supps are the second most impactfull rol in the game, if theyre filled bot is over almost 100% of the time, they do not know which adc is stronger, if they or the other support is stronger, will push without thinking, will engage (or try, spending the only thing they can do to disengage and letting the enemy supp free engage), will not roam or roam badly letting your adc freediveable. And this with the 600g snowball thing makes it even worse.
I think toplane cant be buffed Or at least healing on toplane cant be buffed because If you can deal damage and heal the mistakes you do dont matter you just tanking enemies and deal damage Thats why i think tanks must be nerfed a lot
Nowadays combat healing has been reduced by a lot, especially from items, double especially healing from waves. Imo champions that are designed around healing should be able to heal a lot in fights, in exchange for being bursted more easily. Death's Dance kind of negates that weakness, so because of that, healing in champions' kits gets nerfed
ADCs weren't always this strong, but they were the main carry of every game for many different metas. It's just when they're strong, the entire game seems to revolve around bot lane, like Jungle and Mid lane are only more impactful than top because they can roam bot
delusional video tbqhwy fam, karthus is still the highest winrate bott (almost 55% btw xd) along with a few mages and yasuo (seraphine, ziggs, heimer, swain and cassio showing up in gm/challenger), most adcs are either at 50% w/r or below that, the role is literally called "carry" that's why it's always the focal point, unless adc is piss unless like it was back in 2020 and 2021, to the point that adcs would lock in ziggs and afk clear waves bott while everyone else played away from them, or they would just play utility adcs (ashe/senna/jhin), adc hasn't gotten direct buffs in years, we got hit with xp nerfs multiple times because of different roles, items got nerfed because of different champs, support role got buffed to make up for how dogshit adc was, the role got so bad that it dropped to the least popular role at the start of the year, and is still autofil protected, they finally did something useful when they lowered the crit requirement for ie and made navori an actual item, then they fucked it with the new items again, now adcs are playing lethality/on hit/ap unless they're forced into building crit, while top has the most disgusting champs in the game, mages are pseudo tanks (almost all of their items give hp and they get a shield from seraph's), support is still broken and jungle is cringe, just camp bott until the enemy adc loses the will to live (midlaners partake in that too), that's not fun to play and it's not done because of "muh dragon", it's done because bott is a long lane with 2 squishy free kills, no one in soloq cares about dragons, while top has the danger of counterplaying 1v2 (again, their champs are abominations), nothing will change except the meta adcs, mages will keep having the highest winrate and until jungle gets the incentive to fuck off, they'll keep afking bott
ADC have never been weak, just the playerbase is egotistical so they beg for buffs even when they're overtuned. They were "weak" for part of S8 then PRESEASON S11 and you whined and cried so much that Riot bent over as they usually do and turned the game into wholesome rightclick fiesta again. @shinamonti2021
@@minimoYT The entire game revolves around ADCs because they are overpowered and need to get nerfed. Only reason they're keep overtuned is because the role has a shitty playerbase and Riot has a tendency to reward characters/roles with terrible playerbases.
Adc aren't the problem but the victim,playing adc sucks so much that it's always autofilled protected,the problem are supp and jungle being broken they shape the game,a good jungler with a good supp make the game unplayable for enemy team.adc sucks since season 8 and crit nerfs the best adc are mages and ap adc like kaisa or twitch because they can abuse ap item that are overtuned,nowadays adc suffer from the fact that they can do only onething well damage while the game is balanced around a champion being capable of doing a bit of everythingThis is why tank are obscene they are top chart damage and tank,what riot can do is bring back 25% crit nerf damage and vring back the one defrnsive option
I don't think adcs feel that bad to play, it's just that in lower elos, nobody knows how to play around the adc, and the adcs themselves don't have polished mechanics to carry in teamfights. Imo it's just much easier to play Jhin in the bot lane than to try and carry a game as a mage in mid lane, it just depends on whether my support is hard-inting or not
@@minimoYT I have to disagree as autofill main,carrying with a mage in midlane is easier you have two level advantage against botlane and you can roam in 2 different lane or invade while in bot lane or top lane you can roam only in one lane and invade only one side of the jungle.the only time when playin ADC was satisfying was when zeri +trinity was playable and old seasons of league, I have rarely fun on marksmen because you get perma ganked by mid and jungle while a 3vs 3 happens it's often decided by supp and mid/jng and not by ADC,the game has an huge identity crisis they are maintaining ADC like old seasons of league but it doesn't really works anymore that paradigm,we have example anywhere, nowadays mages have hp in their items, assassin are building bruiser items,tanks are top chart of damage every games the roles boundaries are slowly fading away,now most of the champs can do a bit of everything, while ADC can only do damage we are seeing this tendency on ADC too this is why a lot of ADC are going bruiser build,you can't only anymore provide damage because the game doesn't work that way anymore.now let's talk about top ,if ADC is the bottom of the barrel, top is near to it,it feels so fucking bad to play it's positioned far away from where the fight happens if the enemy jungler decide to gank you lost,it have an objective that you can't take alone because you take way too much time,the only way that top worked was with old TP but was unhealthy and unfair to bot lane it was annoying the top laner tping behind you and get a double kill only because you have 2 level advantage ,the only solution that I have it is too make tp work on objective
When I play top I get 3 man gank and we still lose the drake somehow.
Me ganking top with my jungler while my adc solos the drake:
👁👄👁
@@minimoYT legit happened to me, i still won because my junglers was free to do whatever she wanted cause evelynn was always top.
@@minimoYT Me counter-ganking your jungler while my adc emotes at tower and loses lane
👁👄👁
1) Drakes give too much buffs making it too important to contest it
2) Yuumi getting deleted unironically opened up the gates of hell with the 2 adc botlane meta, with yuumi around and other enchantresses, they disabled lvl kill potentials
3) Top carries need enchantresses to properly function, gwen, olaf, and the likes need proper supports and thats why they've taken a backseat recently, most of their weaknesses are covered by enchanter supports.
4) Because of the durability patch, theres very little demand for assasins that are really good at countering adcs
as an Assasing jgl player, it has become insanely hard to even kill bot lane. I can go top and die to darius/illaoi with my top laner, fail a gank on mid to and incredible safe mid laner (veigar or anyone with zhonya). dont even think about 1v1 amumu, he is tankier than any assasin and deals more burst damage. Enemy adc deletes you if ur ccd for 1 sec by support or your bot lanes is a little bit slow with following the gank or your adc decided "i will let them push so u can gank, but when you gank i need to farm the minions that have been stacking up". And any enchanter support usually has zhonya in runes, so unlikly to kill them when you spend your 1 mobility spell to gap close and now the flash and go golden under tower. And now you 5 camps behind, enemy has herald and they say jgl diff
@@drakensong9953Reminds me of one time my Kayn otp friend got 1v1n'd by taric support. I have never seen him this mad
@@motivationenjoyer9830 leona support is cracked, can hard burst u if ur not careful
@@motivationenjoyer9830 I remember getting outdamaged as jinx against a nautilus with thornmail, tanky items are honestly the worst balanced in the game as of recently (before mythic changes)
now imgaine you queue ranked, enemy has kai'sa, what are the odds of winning? negative?
League of Legends from the POV of an ADC:
As an ADC I am the Protagonists
Supports are my Sidekicks
Midlaners are my Antagonists
Junglers are the Directors
And Toplaners exist for comedic relief
AD Marksmans are receiving constant item buffs mainly because of botlane mains that can't proper itemize their champions, in nowadays with state of league in form of IE 40% passive etc., we need to adapt, we received so many signs, we need to unleash true might of Forbidden Azir Technics, Steel-Feather Tankzir to be resistant for their damage and Ultimate Sun God Kraken Slayer Azir to take revenge on them by their weapon.
Honestly I feel like RoA-Seraphs-FH-FoN with Conqueror could be a quite strong Tankzir build provided you get through the early game. Unfortunately you won't be able to get Abyssal Mask alongside RoA because you're only allowed to have one item with their passive.
Honestly I feel like another reason is that the ADC community is just incredibly vocal and entitled and unlike toplaners who have been talking to a wall for like 7 or 8 years now Riot continues to pander to them. We have been in a botlane meta ever since Riot replaced the old Drake that only gave gold with the elemental ones, even when ADC as a role was supposedly "weak" yet ADC mains won't shut up until they can 1v1 a Zed or Jax on even footing. The only shakeup of any significance has been the release of Bel'Veth due to her insane synergy with Rift Herald. And the craziest thing of all is that Riot has literally said that it's not ok for skirmishers to come fully online with a mythic + Deaths' Dance core (which I agree with by the way) while they've now deliberately given marksmen access to the same shenanigans with mythic + IE/ Navori. Either give every champion class the same privilege or none.
It's so sad that often the top laners get nerf for using the fking itemization riot gives to adcs.
the only problem on top lane is when the 3 sisters (irelia riven and camile) become so strong that nothing and no one can kill them, other then that all other toplanes survives only with willpower and the thirst for botlane blood.
or when irelia build like half her build is adc and half her build is bruiser, she shreds you to pieces while tanking more than tanks....
Very well said. As a supp main, fuck adc mains. Egotistical assholes.
You sound like one of them dirty toplaners who despite being 1/7 can come to bot and demolish fairly fed adc and supp in seconds
It still feels the same!! Even after Patch 13.11. Traditional ADCs like Jinx or Caitlyn have super iffy itemisation since the mythic change, which is a topic by itself (IE is just really bad as a mythic with a shit item path and high cost that only provides raw stats), but Galeforce, Triforce and Guinsoo’s (on champs with some kind of AP scaling) are all pretty overturned. So many games just come down to Zeri gets fed or Jhin gets fed or Kog’Maw gets his 1 item Thanos spike. And they’re near the drake so yeah good luck getting those massive stat buffs. I’m not saying a fed ADC is unbeatable but playing a solo laner feels fucking awful this season because so much power is in the bot lane. Less so in mid because you can more easily impact the bot lane fights but… even then. I don’t know what could be done to address but solo laning feels awful in S13 comparatively.
Play champs that can nuke the enemy adc
Until you can't because engage supports CC you for eternity while enchanters click 1 button
@@fitmotheyapNot really, enchanters have to hit cc and poke to be useful they can't just shield once or heal once and carry a teamfight unless the enemy is really bad, millio and yuumi are the only exception here they are really braindead though you won't win a teamfight if you only click 1 spell lol, you could however also say the same about engage supports they hit 1 spell and the others are a guaranteed hit while also doing like 400-700 dmg with a full spell rotation.
Season 13 will be easily among the worst seasons league saw
@@letsplaygmilio, yuumi, LULu, Zona, Zoraka, Karma(yeah , karma kan miss her Q, but she s 2,5 k hp with 3 items , healing for 600 with every W, rooting you for 1,5 s per 6 s) janna is.... Janna , she feels so useless when a braindamage player pilot her, but this guy will still have 53wr
And then there is not an enchanter as peak of cancer in support meta
It is a Rell - the iron maiden, undodgeable cc chain for 4,5 seconds every 7
@@lkar4ikRell is not an enchanter bro, she is a tank-engage support, tho with Riot's rework, she feels way too easy than before.
Seriously, I enjoyed playing old Rell, and as much as I like the fact that she has normal ats and movement speed now, I hate that she is now getting too much hate thanks to a lazy and unnecesary rework by riot.
It's always gonna be either carry top that aren't kited/madmen splitpushers or it's gonna be an unkillable frontline to support even furthermore the ADC (Sion, Ornn, Malphite, and whatnot)
I've had games in toplane where I go 0/0/0 at 14 minutes (when I don't have to protect my plates anymore and can finally roam) and my botlane is already knocking on enemy inhibitors.
This problem honestly started in every lanes and this is largely due to the item rework that happened two years ago as well. First item has become such a stupidly huge power spike for every champion. In the past you had some champions that went online at 3 items, some at two items, and some even had to wait as far as 4 items before they became relevant. Since the introduction of mythics and item changes, almost every champion becomes an immediate threat at their first item. Once you have your first item you can just repetitively kill your lane opponent and play as aggressively as you want.
I want to echo a similar sentiment. "Attack Damage Carry" role has always been the most important role. it's literally in the name. the main difference is that their agency is no longer gated by the 3-item spike.
@@thefance4708 It's something i noticed Riot has purposefully and obviously been trying to remove from the game. They want to remove "power spikes" as a term all together. There is no longer such a thing as "mid game" or "late game champions". Just "hey i have my first item now, I now do things"
@@madmaxiemartialartsnerd485 I first noticed shortly after the mythic-system debutted. Between zeal items being garbage, tank items being garbage, and Riot's emphasis on rushing overstatted mythics, I concluded that Riot must be trying to flatten polynomial power-curves.
I believe it's because "every role must have equal agency at each stage of the match" feels vaguely egalitarian, and because "ooga-booga me smorc" is more fun than playing tactfully and patiently. Which has had the predictable result of ADC's having their cake and eating it too. As I told a friend:
> If players want to play an ADC with more earlygame agency, that already exists. They can queue toplane and play Urgot. So long as Riot continues to force everyone's agency to be perfectly equal, the game's balance will continue to be distorted.
@@thefance4708 "Riot must be trying to flatten polynomial power-curves. I believe it's because "every role must have equal agency at each stage of the match" feels vaguely egalitarian"'
so well said. id add that the game is too formulaic. the drake every fixed 5 mins, means theres going to be a fight. that sets up a clear structure to every game. it feels like every game plays the same script. id add more randomness to the game, with only a 15 second heads-up about the drake respawning or maybe add more enemies into the baron pit. or expand the alcove with some sort of a general collectible buff, that works like a capture point you need to contest. other games and other MOBAs have tried this and it has worked.
secondly, id add that we have not gotten anything new to the game. a lot of it has just been rehashing of items or drakes. very little actually NEW has been added.
imo a lot of their power is in LDR right now. Like, Cait with gale + IE can headshot me for 300 crit when I'm playing Sion with Heartsteel + Sunfire, then I build randuins, they build LDR, suddenly I get crit for 600 non-headshot?
LDR's passive is incredibly, monstrously overturned.
And better yet: it's not a good second item anyway, so Mythic > IE > LDR makes for a very clear-cut build path that works practically every game
@@minimoYT Yeah. LDR was an item you desperately wanted to have third but it was worse than IE 98% of the time.
And yet if you *don't* build it, Sion can just walk up to Cait while she tickles him from afar and kill her under tower despite any amount of kiting she does. I'm sure you've seen the innumerable amount of clips where the ADC doesn't have LDR and mignt as well be healing the tank they're shooting at.
Main ADC i confirm what @ProSharpshooter said, LDR it's the item that makes and ADC the role they said It was, an antitank, it's One of the most broken items, so broken that of you don't have One you are trolling, i Say debuff the passive and put like 15% more damage against tanks(so 15% and not 25%) on LDR and 10% on grevious
@@freze994Adc was never meant to be anti tank but a class that tries to kite and kill safely from afar. They are not even called "ad carries" that is just a term the community invented. They are marksmen and theh are nlt supposed to 1 v 1 anyone other than other marksmen or weaker sups. The class was created with a sup in mind to help them being useful
its because adcs are broken, they scale too well and if one side gets ahead its almost imposible to kill the other side without jg help. there is no outplay potential, there is just utility and raw damage, raw damage the losing side will lack so they will be more prone to die again and seal the game.
Lifesteal items need to be removed and healing should just be in champions kits only.
An ADC that gets ahead and builds BT, Shieldbow, Bork and stands there healing 300 per auto attack and becomes a super tank.
Top is useless cause we cant tp to bot anymore to impact the good lane
I wouldnt say it's useless, unless the ennemy botlane is giga fed, any top laners destroy an adc in a 1v1. Thought i have to admit after 20 minutes it becomes much more difficult when teamfights starts.
Useless is a strong word, but it does feel more difficult to impact the game as a top laner. It's part of the reason why if I'm ever top, I'll only play Shen and try to ult as often as possible around the map
the problem seems to concentrate in two of the following aspects
1. 99% of toplaners reach their spike at 1/2 items or on their way to the second item, but when they usually hit these spikes you still have laning phase objectives going on to prohibit you from getting outside your lane and impact the game, because then the enemy top will just get platings, the whole tower if past 14, and 3 free waves of farm and maybe your krugs
2. but even though toplaners are stronger early and in skirmishes the only times they get to group in their respective lane are in heralds, usually given up early if one of the laners or both top/jg have advantages (600 gold in items is massive early) and of very rare occurrence (2 times in 20 mins), and by the time your adc goes mid in mid game you'll probably be splitting bot, miles away from baron
3. when the lane phase problem described in 1. is finally over and you're more free to roam the map, you'll already be in your third item, when damage melee toplaners get comparatively weaker than the other players, that are not only getting spiked on third but also being permanent presences in objectives and teamfights, that is, adc third item like bf sword giving them whopping 70 ad and 60% crit or guinsoo users hitting the sweet spot of attack speed and 50/50 damage, and midlaners getting rabaddons/ROA/seraphs/zonhyas done and if the enemy jungler is a heavy damage carry one or assassin he'll still always be more useful than you on third item
it seems like a perennial inherent problem of the top lane magnified by the adc meta and power of jg
Me trying to focus on movie:
Music: 🔥🔥🔥
It's a painful double edge because the more power and influence botlane has the more roams to bot happen only to make laning even more sink or swim
Caraaaalho que conteúdo bom. Inglês super preciso tb, parabéns
one thing, the gold advantage is not 600 from two kills bot, its 900 because of the 150 assist gold, making ganking bot triple the worth of mid or bot, this besides putting the most frail person on the team just a little bit behind making them considerably more squish relative to mages and assassins damage
I go Kai'Sa with nashor's, heartsteel and titanic lol if it last long enough I just add cap, runnan(this one might be trolling) or manamune.
Another problem is that Toplane and it's champions are so snowball(Y) that the first jungler that has half a neuron and does 1 single successful gank the lane will spiral out of control because the enemy toplaner got 300+ 1 or 2 plates plus 1~2 waves on you.
So now all the jungler has to do is spam gank botlane and the game is over.
It still is, and the fun thing is, playing adc in mid sometimes is even better than playing actual midlane champions (fucking Tristana), and the fact that Shiv is at least 200G cheaper than most mage Mythics while they also need to rush a full boot against Demolish Tris while this mtfk can casually rush Shiv 1st item is the icing on the cake.
This video was actually just straight up facts.
tbh, the problem is the difference between regions, in asia they know how to play with a toplaner when he's ahead that means peels him or help him to reach carrys in others regions adcs and mids can't support the fact that a top carry the game for them, so they play extremly poorly or int, because they faced this situation not a lot or have mental problems. A good top that can do a perfect game can have a ton of impact but not like as a botlane and it's not common so people don't know how to play around them. When bruisers was strong af 2 seasons ago *or 3? i forget* they were unstopable, i think top and bruisers are balanced but people are dumb as bricks, maybe i would change my mind when i reach gm in this second split
Dude.... I'm looking at this thinking how he's going to mention all the ADC buffs lately, 3 minutes in and he mentiones "buffed dragons recently". Only then I realized this video is 5 months old. My sweet summer child, you haven't seen even the beginning of the botlane meta when the video was created. :D
2:35 thank you for the brazilian reference
I totally agree with this, It's why I only really play hard scale champions as support like senna bard and support, because as long as we can keep holding out, I will out scale them. I've even been playing some veigar in support just using the current mid lane fs runes just to make up for when my adc really sucks.
nice observations. Thank you for sharing. Defienotly agree
Whichever jungler ganks bot more wins the game. It's that simple. That's why you see junglers lvl 2 ganking bot, because it's such a free win if you do.
I've been playing top lane for years and the current state of it sucks. Every game some bullshit vayne, akshan or any ranged mf comes to enemy top or some fiora camille riven OTP freak pops out and shit into your laning, which is probably the only phase of the game you'll enjoy as a top laner. There is no more Darius, Sett or other "Kings of the Top Lane"
Also not to mention junglers just ghost your lane (most of the time your jungler🗿) and some doesn't even come to top side jungle to even clear it. It is just crazy they only come and go around mid and bot. Most of them doesn't even take rhe dragons. You can get the soul around 20 mins. but in most of the matches when the clock hits the 20 mins you'll probably see one or two drakes has been slain. Just by one gank they can have a non stop endless slaughtering monster coming down from top lane to dominate the whole game and butcher the whole enemy with it's sore hands but no they can't afford any shit to come top lane. 💀💀💀
TH-camrs also doesn't help in this situation. When someone opens up a champ or jungle guide most of the youtubers just tell them play bot and don't give a fuck about top lane. It is just sad.
But hey man thank you for making people realise there is a lane called "Top" 🗿
Sololaners rely heavily on their kits. Adcs don't need much of their kits, just aa. So whoever gets ahead, it's almost impossible for the other to outplay and reverse.
Adcs were falling out of fashion... UNTIL WE REWORKED THEIR ITEMS AGAIN AND BUFFED DRAGONS!
I recently played versus a Kog'Maw - Tristana. The furry fuck would just jump in, do 75% my health and the dog would just sheenze on me and I'll die. Sure, the midriff demon and I effectively traded kills, but the void dog had 7 kills before 10 minutes. Tristana went 2/8, We FF15'd. I fucking hate the bot lane so fucking much; everytime I get put there a dog gets punted in the groin and an angel gets its wings brutally wielded to its back.
However, thank you for explaining why I always go 0/20 when I play bot lane. The information'll at least dull the pain.
Hey man, i haven't heard from you about the new azir changes in patch 13.4. Do you think those buffs/nerfs are gonna make him weak or is he still at the same level he used to be before?
I think he's a tad weaker in solo queue, but it equalized at level 9, and it's a net buff from level 9 onwards. It's weird that it doesn't affect pro play as much as solo queue though. They don't need to get kills, so they can conserve their mana better, meanwhile trying to do the classic level 4 all-in will be harder than ever for solo.
Might make a video on it to elaborate further, but I personally think the nerfs are mostly right, the compensation buffs don't make much sense
@@minimoYT 100% agree with your assessment. Tysm!! 👍👌
ADC as a role isn't safe. Out side of Ezreal, there's not real safe adc pick. When it comes to mids, they have so much range or fairly long range cc that combos like Arhi that once they cc you they burst and leave. Jinx? You slow them then just watch as they walk away. ADCs rarely have a stun out side of ashe's ult and having trash cc means any tank or bruiser can free kill them. They really should have easy to hit roots that mids get to abuse to hell. It's honestly not fair how much cc mids get to have over adcs.
ADCs do have some picks with a lot of safety, Varus has an easy to land root on a relatively low cooldown for an ult, Jhin lays down traps and makes it hard to get ganks off, then is really good at running away with Stormrazor, you did mention Ashe, and there's also Tristana with her giant dash that can be buffered through CC.
The reason why ADCs don't have as much CC as mid laners is that they don't need it to land their damage. Mages need to root or stun you to guarantee their combo, ADCs have mostly point and click damage, so their CC can be held for self-peel
dont forget that adc's are the only class/roole in the game that STILL dies to a wet fart, and is the second most immobile class in the game, behind enchanters. So you have a squishy immobile, in a 2v2 lane, possibly even 3v2 or 3v3, in league 2023. idk what you want jinx to do into naut, draven, kayn being in her lane and the crank support chilling mid.
ADC isn't necessarily the least mobile champion in a given match. Jinx and Kog are some of the most defenceless marksmen in the game, but then Kai'Sa, Vayne, Lucian and Ezreal have tools to keep them from being a bag of gold, even Jhin is good at avoiding ganks and stuff with traps and lots of movement speed
The main point is that if one ADC is a Jinx left to fend for herself in a 1v3, the enemy team will play for the bot lane to get the Draven ahead as hard as possible. That's what the team gets for not protecting Jinx early, because if they did, she could easily become the main carry
@minimoYT id say overall adcs are the second least mobile. Sure you have the exceptions like vayne and lucien after navori. But overall they arent crazy mobile. Even ezreal is dealing with his e having actual cooldowns until late game.
As for avoiding ganks, there isnt much you can do when you're under turret, which you will be in 2v1 situations. Yes jhin is amazing as preventing ganks by placing his traps by the entrance to the lane near by river, but under the turret, which is where he will be if he is 2v1 he's almost entirely defenceless.
@@einjharrelracai don’t get your point? His point was adc’s are so significant to the point that the game becomes less of a 5v5 and more like 4 bodyguards and an adc
@justanordinaryguy6568 because that isnt what is happening. Botlane has just become a sack of 600 gold for the midlaners and junglers go beat the gold out of, because they are the easiest targets.
Also, this is about roaming supports and how adcs are suppose to survive.
yea i think you right, botlane mid-game got too strong
and top is still on an island that no one cares about. lol
And then we have kayle who is a tryhard trying desperately to imitate the adc's Main protagonist energy
what we can see is that the apc part was wrong, Karthus, Veigar, Ziggs are still very strong in bot lane, Ziggs/Veigar especially in low elo. There is just to much of a benefit for them to play with a support. But i get the feeling you are describing. It feels realy shitty to play a wining or maybe even top lane game and then get destoyed by a completly fed ADC.
I think Karthus is more of an outlier, Veigar and Ziggs are low risk, low reward picks compared to normal marksmen, but Karthus has the advantage of being able to catch waves on death, and bringing actual sustained DPS that other mages usually lack, especially since Veigar is meant for burst, and Ziggs Q isn't the easiest to land consistently.
Their win rates are mega high because they're often picked in situations where they're exactly right for that match, because if they aren't, a regular adc would be picked instead. If they were picked as often as marksmen, their win rate would probably stick around 50% or 51%. Just my 2 cents, though
@@minimoYT fair point. but imho champs like veigar have a far easier time scaling in bot lane, where they are protected by a support and ganked more reguarly as in mid lane. Ziggs on the other hand, especially in low elo can just throw his q on the backline minions, after 1-2 items straight one shotting them and also deal a chunk of damage to the adc/support because the positioning in bronze-gold is not that good. in the state the game is right now, I dont think we will see APCs disappering. With all the cheese range picks top (often ADCs) my guess is that they will become a staple in the future, even more then now IF there is no other drastic change from Riot.
alongside I found your channel beacuse of your mage item video. right now im binge watching your content and I really appreciate it good job keep it on!
Holy fuck, i didn't realize you're Brazilian like me until you pointed it out
july 3 2023 update here... leauge has becomes worse for those people watching this for the first time
It's okay, 2v2 brawl mode gives me hope
eu tava vendo o video na moral e o cara soltou um 8 ou 80 kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk BRAZIL MENTIONED
Hey I don't see any video about it thats why I'm gonna ask you. Which start items is the best for azir?
Personally, Doran's Ring with 2 healing pots, no matter what. You don't have enough mana problems nor scaling to start tear, and Corrupting Pot feels underwhelming
OK, thanks for the quick reply
bro discovered snowballing
Well kinda, in my experience ADC is the only class that makes you question your whole existence when you lose lane
They should just swap the baron and dragon pit that would fix the problem easily
Then the ADC and support would just go top, bot becomes a solo lane. The only difference is how plates work before 5 minutes, which would only make the solo matchup more volatile, and the duo a little less
Thanks to all this changes now top builds are way more damage-oriented, supports are 90% of the time champions that can dish out more damage as possible (only time you see a pure tank supp with engage it's bc top has a damage oriented build or a ranged one, if even one on the squad is tanky the supp goes for more damage)
mid got tristana incident XD and top we are seeing ranged champs if not only normally but also if bot goes for an ap mage in the adc role
in any form or shape, meta now it's just damage, damage and damage. First item it has to be pure damage, 90% of the time. Snow ball now it's even more important
Nice videos 👍 you gained a new sub
Thank you! Glad to have you on board
I think part of the problem is, they are trying to balance a role, and champions, and items, in a lane where all their gold and xp is being leeched by another player, and trying to keep them as competitive as everyone else. Simple solution, make support items prevent you from leeching gold and xp. All 3 lanes get the same amount at the same time. Bot lane doesnt get 1 tapped by other lanes due to being down 2 or 3 levels and items. And its far easier to balance. To prevent abuse, make only 1 support item allowed to be purchased on a team at a time. Nobody feels underwhelming if they just play decently. I feel like they are struggling to make a role thats always down gold and xp feel strong but not be broken or useless and they cant figure it out.
Then how support will get its 2 level even (or ult), gold for wards at least? Not talking about items
@@iMaxBlazer same as they already do? I didnt say anywhere to change that. They would earn gold the same as they already do. Maybe make it last infinitely instead of capping at 1K, and instead of getting half XP when standing near minions, and draining half from your carry, the support item makes you both get the full amount.
That way when its team fight time, everyone is level 10 or whatever at the same time and all relatively equal scale in power. No more trying to balance one lane and two roles while being way down compared to the other two.
It's 900 gold vs 300 for a solo kill. You have to factor in the assist gold as well.
I think assists give less gold early on, but either way you're right, assist gold makes a difference as well
Crit items are just overtuned. I build them top mid or even jungle if my champion can since they are busted. Ever seen Jayce press W and instantly send 3x1k DMG your way?... Is not whole point of Yas and Yone power spike the fact that they can build already insane crit items super effectively?
I just think it's funny how every crit item is super strong, except for IE which is THE crit item lol
If u don’t enjoy the state of the game u can always just go outside, go play another game, do other things. People complain and complain every season when there role is not good it’s been like that for years. Also A lot of people say the current state of the game is balanced right now people only complain because they only remember there bad experiences.
I do still enjoy the game, but I am actually following that advice and playing other games along with Arena. Most people don’t complain because they hate League, but because they want to see it improve
0:35 Nope, you get even more, because you also have the assist, meaning instead of 300 gold, you get 900 gold.
Mais algum brasileiro vendo esse vídeo? 🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷
what if they just switch the place of rift and dragon, then top lane wouldnt feel so alone and 1 teleport could be used more multifunctional
I think ADC and Support would just move to top lane then, it could be interesting to test out, but probably wouldn't change much
How u learned the brazilian expression tho?
Eu sou brasileiro 😎
@@minimoYT Ahhh que foda
Não sabia q vc era br mano mto bom
For me it was shitty to play support with someone because i see the enemy support do something wrong, i go in, stun/knockups/pull, whatever! What resulted in my adc saying "thats the wrong person".
I understand that the adc is more important to kill, but isnt it more important to stop anybody overall?
It depends on the support and the state of the game. Early on, you can jump on the support no problem, later, it depends.
Usually if a tank support messes up, you can force an engage on their adc instead, and if a support like Soraka mispositions, you actually have to focus her, otherwise you have to kill the enemy team five times over
8 OU 80 BRASIL MENTIONED!!!
This is my take on it:
Duo botlane needs to die a fiery death:
1. You already pointed out how snowbally that lane is (for the other players on the map)
2. You also made a point in that a tanky solo laner in bot would be able to outsustain and play safe and later outscale the enemy adc (think a fed cho'gath or mundo vs an adc thats behind)
You are pointing out something ive already discussed at length with my league friends:
Currently toplane is the "boring" lane where you have to be patient for something to happen.
Well, what if that patient lane became botlane and now theres a solo tank in botlane outsustaining the poke and all-ins of the duo botlane.
3. Why botlane sucks:
Well a myriad of reasons, you also pointed out how an adc will just never outkite a midlaner assasin or fighter and altho I think this is part of the problem, the elephant in room is the xp difference.
and this is the MAIN reason why specificly DUO botlane needs to die, its been tried and tested and been the weak point of the meta for who knows how long. Ofcourse its the botlane/supp duo lane who ints their ass off. Cause they are behind on xp from the start. Shared xp lanes is if not the reason why league is so snowbally right now its a huge factor.
The solution?: I dont know, but I think tilterella with his invade tp smite shenanigans might be onto something, what if we had 2 junglers and invading and fighting for jungle became more of a focus in the game, league is after all sortof a game of domination (if anyone plays fps they know domination is a game mode where you control parts of the map and win)
This is the kind of stuff I wish was tested on the PBE, just these outlandish suggestions that would turn the game upside down, would be fun to see in action even if it never comes to live servers
@@minimoYT I think its the reluctance to try this sort of thing out that causes things to improve so slowly. I understand the reluctance cause every change costs money but the thing is it wouldnt even need to be big changes.
But I completely agree that PBE would be a great testing ground for this sortof thing to be tried out.
as a someone who plays mlbb along with league, i just love how ml handles supports
their starting item was a mask, but now it's just regular boots with the passive that mask had: support doesn't get gold and exp from minions until the passive is stacked (it's usually stacked midgame)
this makes supports be not attached to any lane and do multiple options
1) stay with the jungler, leash his camps, cover from invades or invade with him
2) help midlaner getting prio for skirmishes/invades
3) freely rotate to any sidelane to cover or gank it (solo or with jg/mid)
once stacked, you have a special effect unlocked depending on what type of passive you picked:
1) first one provides you and your nearby teammates semi-invisibility (enemy can't see them on minimap, use point and click abilities or autos, but their outlines are actually visible)
2) burst heal on any healing/shielding ability (it has cooldown)
3) burst damage on the low hp target
there used to be a permanent game-mode called "Dominion", which featured 5 skarner-themed spires distributed in a ring. the point of the game was to control the spires. it was eventually axed by riot because not enough players, and because botting by account scalpers was rampant.
It's weird because, as an ADC, the game is actually unplayable if your solo-laners are losing. I've had too many games where my top and mid have double-digit deaths pre-25, jungler trying his hardest to salvage the losing solo-lanes for some fucking reason instead of helping US (the WINNING BOT-LANE), and beyond that it's just impossible to carry as an ADC.
I get that, ADC in solo queue doesn't give you agency, I feel it in my bones since I only play Jhin in the bot lane. Like, when played around, the role is way too strong, but if left to fend by yourself, you can't do much
@@minimoYTAlso you are playing jhin. Probably the only balanced bottom laner.
IE not over buffed
Why do bots lanes go bot? Like, what would have to change for the support and ADC to go top instead? Dragon moving top?
Mostly it's tower plating, plates in mid and top take reduced damage before 5 minutes, but not in bot lane, so an ADC with prio can take plates much earlier. That's also combined with dragons being bot, so at 5 minutes, they also become more important, since Herald takes longer to spawn
historically, the logic behind the lanes went like this:
A) ADC's and toplane are in the long lanes because they can run down their opponents with autoattacks.
B) mages/assassins are put in the short lane because they can burst/poke then retreat to tower without getting rundown.
C) supports babysit the ADC, because ADC's need gold more than xp. babysitting the ADC guarantees the ADC can farm gold safely at the cost of a ~40% xp tax.
D) the ADC/support duo goes botlane to contest drag.
At some point, Riot added Rift Herald in order to make toplane feel as impactful as botlane. but this actually resulted in a laneswap meta in proplay, where the duolane often went topside. Which Riot didn't like, so they made botlane tower easier to break in order to incentivize the duolane to go back botlane.
ooh its rav
wait its not
just reported
As someone who doesn’t follow meta, I focus early rifts over first 2 dragons so I’m actually rarely not but I also don’t jng but when I do I focus topside usually or what ever the game offers 😊
nailed it
You just made me notice 8 or 80 is a portuguese language thing
Maby this is a elo problem? Im gold 1 and i always feel like it barely matters wether adc wins or not. As jungler or top Im always stronger and can just oneshot combo or tank all adc damage.
It do be true about the dragons tho, those are what really matter for the game
In higher elos, bot lane does become more important, but it doesn't need to be that high, even in high plat/low emerald, most games are decided by which bot lane got the most jungle support
dude i was watching your video like i watch any podcast, just listening to it and doing something else, then you said "8 or 80", as a brazilian i had an instantly neuron activation lmao, i was like "wait what who says that besides brazilians?", then i looked at the screen and saw that you put a note on that"
now the question is, are you brazilian? (just being curious here nothing else)
Mais brasileiro que cadeira de plástico com logo da Skol
@@minimoYTlegal mano, ótimo conteúdo, é difícil ver conteúdo com essa qualidade em canais brasileiros, esse é até um dos motivos de eu consumir vídeos gringos quando se trata de lol
continue assim canal mt bom👍🏻
Nice one using Undertale soundtracks
The new meta is going Yumi, or other support top, and then just stop going top after the first buy, cause most top laners can't push towers, and even if they do you get small benefit in comparison to just 2 man ganking enemy jungle or mid, so they can roam.
Top lane is like super irrelevant now, save for few cases.
i am currently renekton vs riven getting stomped to shit... by the kindread jungle and annie support... which means my teams win cause they arnt focusing bot lane... what a shit game.
Can we get a 13.5 Azir pbe video
I want to wait and test the 13.4 changes before I write the script, but I'll be sure to cover it
you nailed it hahahaha
Q isso, n esperava tu sendo br
Man I hate adc meta so much
Is this a 🇧🇷 reference?
Brasil mentioned????
Are u Brazilian ?
Possível que seja, hein
Are you brazillian? :0
Talvez
@@minimoYT Eita, fiquei na dúvida pq usou a expressão oito ou oitenta, mas vi que teu LoL é todo em inglês, porém tem vários amigos com nick de brasileiro, me bugou. Se for brasileiro mesmo tem um inglês muito bom e conteúdo mt bom tbm!
I genuinenly think that if riot make the game a 4v4, changing adcs so they can stay alone with no problem (but obviosly, with less dps or something) and making all non-supp champs unplayable in jg (due to thigs like they dont dealing damage to jg camps) everyone would be happier and every game more fair.
Think about it, one think that you didnt point in your video is the filled thing, an autofilled adc would be trash, but if they get feed and have a good team will carry anyways, if the game is even, the autofilled adc will clarely lose the game. Now, the real problem, the autofilled supps, supps are the second most impactfull rol in the game, if theyre filled bot is over almost 100% of the time, they do not know which adc is stronger, if they or the other support is stronger, will push without thinking, will engage (or try, spending the only thing they can do to disengage and letting the enemy supp free engage), will not roam or roam badly letting your adc freediveable.
And this with the 600g snowball thing makes it even worse.
L take
caraio, mané fala protuguês
Falo português, ermão
I think toplane cant be buffed
Or at least healing on toplane cant be buffed because
If you can deal damage and heal the mistakes you do dont matter you just tanking enemies and deal damage
Thats why i think tanks must be nerfed a lot
Nowadays combat healing has been reduced by a lot, especially from items, double especially healing from waves. Imo champions that are designed around healing should be able to heal a lot in fights, in exchange for being bursted more easily. Death's Dance kind of negates that weakness, so because of that, healing in champions' kits gets nerfed
caralho vi uns 5 video teu só nesse percebi q era br kkkkk
What a copium of a video.
ADC is strong for one a one season in history and people go crazy XD
ADCs weren't always this strong, but they were the main carry of every game for many different metas. It's just when they're strong, the entire game seems to revolve around bot lane, like Jungle and Mid lane are only more impactful than top because they can roam bot
delusional video tbqhwy fam, karthus is still the highest winrate bott (almost 55% btw xd) along with a few mages and yasuo (seraphine, ziggs, heimer, swain and cassio showing up in gm/challenger), most adcs are either at 50% w/r or below that, the role is literally called "carry" that's why it's always the focal point, unless adc is piss unless like it was back in 2020 and 2021, to the point that adcs would lock in ziggs and afk clear waves bott while everyone else played away from them, or they would just play utility adcs (ashe/senna/jhin), adc hasn't gotten direct buffs in years, we got hit with xp nerfs multiple times because of different roles, items got nerfed because of different champs, support role got buffed to make up for how dogshit adc was, the role got so bad that it dropped to the least popular role at the start of the year, and is still autofil protected, they finally did something useful when they lowered the crit requirement for ie and made navori an actual item, then they fucked it with the new items again, now adcs are playing lethality/on hit/ap unless they're forced into building crit, while top has the most disgusting champs in the game, mages are pseudo tanks (almost all of their items give hp and they get a shield from seraph's), support is still broken and jungle is cringe, just camp bott until the enemy adc loses the will to live (midlaners partake in that too), that's not fun to play and it's not done because of "muh dragon", it's done because bott is a long lane with 2 squishy free kills, no one in soloq cares about dragons, while top has the danger of counterplaying 1v2 (again, their champs are abominations), nothing will change except the meta adcs, mages will keep having the highest winrate and until jungle gets the incentive to fuck off, they'll keep afking bott
@@hehexd5317 honestly pretty fair evaluation
ADC have never been weak, just the playerbase is egotistical so they beg for buffs even when they're overtuned. They were "weak" for part of S8 then PRESEASON S11 and you whined and cried so much that Riot bent over as they usually do and turned the game into wholesome rightclick fiesta again. @shinamonti2021
@@minimoYT The entire game revolves around ADCs because they are overpowered and need to get nerfed. Only reason they're keep overtuned is because the role has a shitty playerbase and Riot has a tendency to reward characters/roles with terrible playerbases.
Adc aren't the problem but the victim,playing adc sucks so much that it's always autofilled protected,the problem are supp and jungle being broken they shape the game,a good jungler with a good supp make the game unplayable for enemy team.adc sucks since season 8 and crit nerfs the best adc are mages and ap adc like kaisa or twitch because they can abuse ap item that are overtuned,nowadays adc suffer from the fact that they can do only onething well damage while the game is balanced around a champion being capable of doing a bit of everythingThis is why tank are obscene they are top chart damage and tank,what riot can do is bring back 25% crit nerf damage and vring back the one defrnsive option
I don't think adcs feel that bad to play, it's just that in lower elos, nobody knows how to play around the adc, and the adcs themselves don't have polished mechanics to carry in teamfights. Imo it's just much easier to play Jhin in the bot lane than to try and carry a game as a mage in mid lane, it just depends on whether my support is hard-inting or not
@@minimoYT I have to disagree as autofill main,carrying with a mage in midlane is easier you have two level advantage against botlane and you can roam in 2 different lane or invade while in bot lane or top lane you can roam only in one lane and invade only one side of the jungle.the only time when playin ADC was satisfying was when zeri +trinity was playable and old seasons of league, I have rarely fun on marksmen because you get perma ganked by mid and jungle while a 3vs 3 happens it's often decided by supp and mid/jng and not by ADC,the game has an huge identity crisis they are maintaining ADC like old seasons of league but it doesn't really works anymore that paradigm,we have example anywhere, nowadays mages have hp in their items, assassin are building bruiser items,tanks are top chart of damage every games the roles boundaries are slowly fading away,now most of the champs can do a bit of everything, while ADC can only do damage we are seeing this tendency on ADC too this is why a lot of ADC are going bruiser build,you can't only anymore provide damage because the game doesn't work that way anymore.now let's talk about top ,if ADC is the bottom of the barrel, top is near to it,it feels so fucking bad to play it's positioned far away from where the fight happens if the enemy jungler decide to gank you lost,it have an objective that you can't take alone because you take way too much time,the only way that top worked was with old TP but was unhealthy and unfair to bot lane it was annoying the top laner tping behind you and get a double kill only because you have 2 level advantage ,the only solution that I have it is too make tp work on objective
wtf was bro talking about when he said "bot meta"
It means the meta is to play ADC with a Yuumi AI as your support I guess
I think he's talking about game having ADC meta for 3 years in a row :^)